Guild Wars 2

Hands down it’s a thief way over powered and as usual when a game is on the decline every other toon is a thief. Why not perma stealth practically, helluva dmg and god at evading. Thief can kill any class.

Cerby.1069:

Noob.5908:

balance has been fixed wtf people…. the lord in sm for example, it’s so pumped up with steroids the larger server that usually always owns it has time to finish sex with the wifey and still get to sm in time to zerg you up the kitten. How much more balance do you want other than that…. kitten some people are never satisfied…

That was pretty specific….

Btw it’s easy to kill if you know what you are doing

You gots some learning to do!

Well having only 9k hours game time which 95% is wvw I might get as smart as you in say 20 years?

balance has been fixed wtf people…. the lord in sm for example, it’s so pumped up with steroids the larger server that usually always owns it has time to finish sex with the wifey and still get to sm in time to zerg you up the kitten. How much more balance do you want other than that…. kitten some people are never satisfied…

Maybe in next update we will get more circle…. neon pick, lime, a dash of purple and then this game can get rid of all meelee classes and give everyone a couple more condi circles of their own and a ranged weapon and we can see who can make the coolest patterns with all the circles

This link says all you ever wanted to know about where the game is headed, its a must see, enjoy!

WvW Resurgence maybe… at least until you come across stupid kitten like SM airships or have to play the BL’s then its like log out and go play checkers with my dog which is hella more fun than pve kitten in WvW or AI which has no place in WvW. Just about time you think ok maybe this WvW isn’t gonna be so bad after all more crap hits you between the eyes and your like screw it!

Whelp back to browsing the forum, SBI is so kittening out-manned atm its not even worth trying. Maybe I should try a nice game of checkers with my dog instead. At least he wags his tail when he beats me.

Serious.6940:

The US has far more time zones and tries to actively attract players from elsewhere in the world, even so night capping is an issue there, even if it isn’t as big an issue as in the EU.

Coupling EU with US servers and allowing players to ‘cross the atlantic’ free might help somewhat. A world channel might help too, you could call people specifically from your world to help in WvW.

It isn’t just the points system but the knock on effects. I have recently been on a border early, all of the keeps and towers had upgraded fully and a few defenders were able to keep us out all morning and most of the afternoon. When it looked like we might get in they called in their people from other borderlands.

Hi Serious.6940, most of us have been in that very situation especially lately with the upgrade changes brought on by HoT. What your saying to me seems more like a population balance issue. Certainly tho the after effects of night capping and upgrading has long lasting effects well into the next day. But even the day time ticks wouldn’t carry as much weight on the score as the prime time ticks when maps are cued. So with a fix to scoring system at least your server wouldn’t get knocked way behind during these periods and can hopefully still manage to keep the match close right up to the end. Dealing with the effects of night capping is REAL, but I don’t view it as a problem it’s more of a population balance issue. Doesn’t change the fact tho that even with equal number of players recapping fully upgraded sieged structures is difficult at times. In my opinion this is more of a tactical play style thing in dealing with it. I would hope tho that the scoring system is changed so the score isn’t terribly affected during this time as to knock your server out of any chance to win the match. If this were a case were population balance was fixed and the scoring system fixed then you would not feel so rushed to recap your stuff because your so far behind score wise. It would create less incentive for them to upgrade everything and hold it because with so few people on the maps the tick value would be low enough that no one team would fall far behind because of this situation. The situation begs for an answer tho… we have equal numbers as the enemy but they own all our crap and have it totally upgraded and sieged wtf do we do? All I can say is you do it in baby steps and yes it may take awhile to recap your stuff especially if there is only 4-5 of you against 4-5 enemy hiding in fully upgraded sieged structures. If you use the NPC’s and siege yourself you should be able to recap your stuff. The keeps are much more of a problem in situations like this because Anet has beefed up the lords which was really a bad idea but not much you can do but try and deal with it.

In conclusion this type of situation can’t be prevented totally and the most we can hope for is a fair scoring system so our server still has a chance to win the match. There are many tactics to dealing with this type of situation and I would would try them all till I hit upon one that works.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Noob.5908:

Simply change the scoring system so that the value of each tick is determine by how many enemy is currently on all the WvW maps. Basically if you are out-manned and have say 5 players online and the enemy has 20 and is night capping everything they would need to control 4 times more stuff than you for each of the teams ticks to equal.
Furthermore the tick value would be low and have overall less effect on the score as compared to prime time when tick values are high because of the higher enemy.

So get a lead, then have everyone quit for the week so no one can catch up? Have players yell at servermates because their presence on the map helps the other servers get more points?

Yes the downside of this is teams that get a sizable lead are much harder to catch. The problem is people will be trying to game the system no matter what it is. I imagine their have been some players try to stand on a rock with one foot in the air to see if they can get some sort of advantage from it. It’s sad but just they way the world works.

On topic tho, like I said I spent five minutes thinking about it to come up with the purposed fix to the scoring system. With proper thought and implementation this problem is solvable tho. Some safe guards may have to be implemented to prevent what you mentioned and I am sure there are other issues you and me both have missed.

Implementing some sort of tick adjustment for the team in third and second would probably need to be done just to keep people honest. ie.. second place teams tick value is multiplied by 1.2 if they are just a tad behind or 1.5 if they are far behind and third place would get 1.4 or 1.7 adjustments made to their tick. Obviously a zero tick value would not be possible with the problem you mentioned but certainly a low tick value when there are no enemy on map is doable especially if your team is in first place. I can hear servers that are use to winning all the time kittening about this but you can’t please everyone, which is better having a match where players take score seriously or don’t care because whatever they do isn’t going to matter. I imagine NcSoft/Anet’s solution to this will contain some sort of tick weight based on on map populations but will go a step further to handle the exact issue you mentioned and others not mentioned so far in this thread. The goal should be to keep match-ups as close as possible right to the end of the match. Scoring doesn’t have to be linear for the game to still be fun. Possible implementing a reverse tick penalty to the teams that are ahead of you would work better. People would still kitten especially if they got beat at the last minute by a team that they should have beaten due to tick weighting or reverse tick penalties. But if the mechanics are clearly spelled out on how it works the teams that are use to winning all the time will just have to work harder to maintain their winning status. Honestly it should have been like this from the beginning. No team should be able to be number one week after week after week. In another one of my post about “How to Fix WvW” I mentioned combining several servers into one massive team until the top team eventually loses. Servers would get use to this in time and would take pride in knowing it took 4-5 servers combining into one team to eventually beat them. Don’t confuse combining servers in the previous remark as suggesting the consolidation of servers. Specifically I am talking about fighting right along side with someone from another server because they have been allied with my server for that weeks match-up. This maintains server pride and friendships yet allows small servers to ally with other small servers to fight larger servers.

It’s all complicated stuff but once the code is written and tweaked we would have better match-ups, match-ups that change more frequently and a scoring system that actually worked.

In conclusion its about having match-ups they stay tight right up to the end and are interesting and not the same every week. The concept of a server always being number one should become a thing of the past and has no place in WvW. The concept of oh kitten we are allied with 3 other servers and fighting server X this week which is really good; becomes the norm. In the end the fights are fun, and it’s better for everyone and certainly better for the game.

Tongku.5326:

Noob.5908:

BTW, answering my own question, yes I have many friends that would come back and play WVW if pop-balance is fixed and obviously I feel player retention would probably double if not triple over what it is atm.

How about your friends would they come back or would it take more than balancing population?

For me it would take much more then that by now. This is my list of what I need for a full time return and game to be fun again:

5. Figure out a way to preserve as much of the community as possible. If the guilds I play with disappear due to this update then am as good as gone, completely and permanently.

6. Give my small guild a GOOD reason to exist and function again.

7. Make my time spent in WVW worthwhile, vs same amount of time spent in PVE.

8. Reduce blob sizes. Perhaps reduce map caps while providing positive incentives and rewards for splitting off, rather then running together in a single map que. Pick an optimal player target number for optimal rewards, for example 25 or 40, not the 80-100ish that is currently.

Tongku.5326 thanks for the feedback you have some good stuff in your post I hope Anet is listening. I do want to add some of my thoughts on a few of your comments.

as to #5.) This is a must for me also, if whatever solution they come up with breaks up my community of friends its game over me also.

as to #6). If the implementation of guild housing and they way upgrades to claimed structures doesn’t become more friendly to small and solo player guilds I can’t see myself ever getting into WvW like I was pre HoT

as to #7.) The forums are loaded with people asking for this and myself have posted about having more WvW toys to work towards in WvW without having to leave WvW. Surely NcSoft/Anet understands this now and will address it in upcoming updates.

as to #9.) This is an interesting problem and I am not one that favors reduction of map caps, I dislike any change that feels like a penalty to being able to get into the map you want to play on. Anet just a thought not sure if programming this is even feasible but I had posted a solution about solving Night Capping which is actually a scoring system problem. But the same sort of thing I talked about in “Night Capping pass the Popcorn” could be applied to blob fights? Why not implement a damage reduction during a fight when your fighting blobs that outnumber you by say 25% and 50% or more? Maybe implemented as a stepping factor, depending on whether your outnumbered by 25%(their damage reduced by 25%) or they outnumber you by 50%( their damage reduced by 50%). This would really need to be thought out tho because as it stands now we already have some small guilds that can kill blobs 3-4 times their size. It’s probably not a good idea and maybe someone else has a better idea on how to break up map blobs which honestly takes away from the game.

I still think that if pop-balance was fixed this would be less of an issue. Servers that tend to out-man their enemies seem to naturally develop into map blobs, at least that’s what I have observed.

Dawdler.8521:

Nightcapping will always be a problem in the EU, period. Servers even get US guilds for the express purpose of taking off hours.

If you want an example, look at Desolation score curve since reset (note: rough times and score).
21:00 saturday (reset) – 60 ppt
03:00 – 400 ppt (followed by 570 ppt an hour later)
09:00 – 250 ppt
15:00 – 200 ppt
21:00 – 100 ppt
03:00 – 600 ppt
09:00 – 260 ppt

Do you honestly not see a pattern here? Night people often whine “oh but nightcappers should be worth as much as you prime time players boohoo” but kitten we have like 5% of the WvW population dictating victory or loss for the other 95% lazy daytime kitten s in a matchup.

Nightcapping is a thing and its effects should be reduced. This is a flaw in the PPT system.

Again this isn’t a night capping issue its a scoring system that’s broken. It’s servers taking advantage of a broken scoring system and the focus to fix it should be the scoring system not on weird kitten like night buffs for structures or closing WvW down during off peak times or the other many things people suggest to make it harder to night cap. Night capping can’t be stopped without running off players, but you can fix the scoring system without running off players and make it less exploitable.

Entenkommando.5208:

Please explain me how a server almost entirely playing like this is supposed to be the number 1 (=“best”) server for several years? Clearly nothing is broken there….

It’s not the night capping that’s the problem it’s the scoring system. They can put as many ac’s in a structure as they want but if they don’t have the players to man them it’s pointless. Maybe I am not seeing the whole situation your trying to explain. But if your saying they capped everything then upgraded everything and and then still out number you but hide in towers with ac’s that doesn’t make sense. If they have the people to man all those ac’s then why don’t they just come out and kill you? I suspect they have a small core of players that work siege like a pro and with smaller numbers are defending rather well even after you guys start logging in for day with more players than them and your getting frustrated. I’ve been in cases like this and it takes better tactic’s to recap stuff held by players that are good players and also have good siege skills. In cases like this they can’t be everywhere at the same time, our server usually just splits up it’s forces and starts recapping the smaller objectives knowing they can’t be everywhere at the same time. Furthermore there have been times where things like a keep or a garri that even with 20 players taking say hills back from 5 good players with siege skills and can fight good also isn’t easy but with patience and tactics you can usually get the job done. That being said I have ran with commanders that when push comes to shove if they can’t take a structure easily they just go someone where else. You can’t solve every problem with code or game mechanics. Moreover it sounds to me your up against smaller numbers but t3 structure being defended by players with plenty of siege to work and with siege skills to boot. That’s not really a night capping issue, sure the scenario was setup by night capping but it’s a tactics problem on your sever and probably a dash of frustration having to deal with this day after day. If you are saying you have equal number of players as them when the new day starts but you can’t beat them because they hide behind t3 structures and have siege. That would be a terribly frustrating thing to deal with each day when you log in but that’s WvW not a night capping issue. Night capping generally means running up the score at night by capping all the maps which is a scoring system problem not a night capping problem. I would suggest capping the easy stuff, towers/camps etc and then working on keeps garri and if the scoring system was fixed, this time frame on your server wouldn’t have as big of affect on the score as say prime time when you have map ques and ticks count more as I described in my original post. It be nice in situations like this not to watch your lead tick away because of a poorly designed scoring system. If it were fixed as I described you could at least relax a bit and take your time and have some fun kicking them out of your keep/garri knowing that your lead in the score wasn’t getting stolen by a poor scoring system.

Now before you flame me for posting this just keep in mind it’s a game played by people from all around the world.

Night Capping isn’t a problem period!

Can one person in a matchup log on at 2am cap all the maps because no one else is online and affect the score in a dramatic way? Answer: Yes

Trying to stop this is going to lead to losing WvW players in some fashion and that is the last thing WvW needs is losing more players.

Night capping isn’t the problem it’s the scoring system. I have seen people posting about this for awhile and usually ignore the thread because I think it’s silly to even consider Night Capping as a problem, and trying to prevent it is… insane, why would you purposely try to kill a game mode?

In less than 5 minutes I can think of one easy solution to the problem and I am sure if NcSoft/Anet put there thinking caps on they could come up with a solution for this without trying to kill the game, ie … run off or discourage players that play at night.

Simply change the scoring system so that the value of each tick is determine by how many enemy is currently on all the WvW maps. Basically if you are out-manned and have say 5 players online and the enemy has 20 and is night capping everything they would need to control 4 times more stuff than you for each of the teams ticks to equal.
Furthermore the tick value would be low and have overall less effect on the score as compared to prime time when tick values are high because of the higher enemy populations.

The single guy capping all the towers as described in the beginning of this post is basically not affecting the score at all because the ticks for his team is “0” because there is no enemy on the maps. Sure he still sets up his server for when people start logging in but the tick values still have less effect on the overall score until the enemy teams start getting more players on the map.

Maybe because I tend to be a mathematician this is easy for me to see but this works and doesn’t run players off in solving a problem with the scoring system.

In conclusion Night Capping isn’t a problem and never will be! Fix the scoring system and let people play during whatever time they want.

Jski.6180:

It was too easy to troll both making pointless rams and choosing bad upgrades.

I was sort of laughed at for posting this to another thread but it really would fix the trolling problem and should seriously be considered.

Managing trolls is easy…

Post 1
NcSoft(Anet) needs to fix it where only guild members of a claimed structure can upgrade it. They also need to allow the members with appropriate permission to authorize certain players outside of the guild to do upgrades, also giving this player the permission to pass along his authority to upgrade the guilds structure to someone else when he logs off. This way a guild could approve several players they trust to handle upgrades and hence completely take trolls out of the picture. If implemented correctly ie… structures not claimed can be upgraded by anyone including trolls would encourage WvW’ers to start claiming structures as to prevent trolling. Often times many structures in WvW are not even claimed and that needs to be fixed and this solution addresses that and solves the trolling issues.

Post 2
Fix it to where a guild can take over a structure with the approval of say 3 other guilds permission. This needs to be done anyway. How many times have you wished that you could +5 your keep but can’t because its claimed and the guild that has it claimed has no one online. If a guild wants to take over a claimed structure they should be able to even if the current guild disagrees. Its just a matter of setting up a sort of map voting system to allow it or not, based on what the majority of players that vote want. Care needs to be taken in this implementation there are several ways that even this could be circumvented and cause problems but with proper implementation this issue is solvable. If it were me I would even go a step further and only allow guild members or approved non guild members to place siege in a structure. This helps with trolls that want to use up all of the supply or even noobs that are clueless about placing siege even tho their intentions are good. Guilds should also have the ability to disallow a certain player from taking supply from a structure they have claimed and this ability should also be included with any non members that have been given the permission to manage a guilds assets. Non guild members that have been give these permissions should retain this privilege and should be able to help with any structure this guild has claimed and the right to do this should be perpetual so it doesn’t have to be done every time a new structure is claimed. It would be easy in the guild window to setup a list of approved players that have the permission to help manage a guilds structures. Guilds also should be able to revoke this permission as they see fit.

Post 3
Yeah sounds complicated and from someone that maybe smoked too much weed. I have to say tho, if you stop and really think about this it isn’t that hard to implement. I can hear players yelling now wtf you took over my claimed tower and getting all huffy, but the WvW community isn’t all bimbo’s and this could work easier than it sounds if implemented correctly. Plus it solves several issues all at once… keeps no +5 and guild that has it isn’t online, trolls building siege and wasting keep supplies, structures not claimed because there is no direct responsibility placed on anyone(but with this change a guild truly is 100% responsible for the house keeping), troll guilds that claim stuff and then never upgrade it. The biggest issue in making it work is the map voting system but this could easily be implemented it just sounds weird, but with careful planning and implementation it would be easy and non-intrusive to game play.

To the point of the OP’er yes I think its silly they keep changing it when the original system was so much better and the dynamics and depth it brought to game play was much better and more fun!

GavNation.4307:

Now I am being honest when I ask this. I am on my first character (level 50) and I was wondering…Whats the point of WvW? I mean it seems entertaining and I was having fun while playing it but I don’t see myself playing for long periods of hours without some actual goals besides “capture this just because you can say your the best server”.

And I am pretty sure that I am missing something or the actual point.

I have been a WvW fanatic since GW2 launch and the main reason I do WvW daily is the unpredictable nature of the environment. First thing I think of each day after waking is “I wonder what WvW is going to be like today”. Some days are more fun than others and lately the fun has been hard to find but the last patch has helped some and WvW is starting to pick back up again. NcSoft/Anet still has lots of work to fix WvW and supposedly they are working on it. Successful WvW is about people and if you’re not one that enjoys making friends and getting together with people you know and going out and killing people you hate(haha) then WvW isn’t going to be much fun for you. Many have said WvW needs more rewards and I agree with this, there are several ways to give players something to work towards in WvW and hopefully NcSoft/Anet is implementing some of these things in the new rework coming down the pipe. But honestly some of the most colorful personalities I have ever encountered have been from WvW and its these people that make me want to log in and go play WvW everyday. It’s just kittening fun running around besting the enemy and laughing about the stupid kitten you did and died because of it. I will say I’m a goal oriented type person also and when they implemented automatic upgrades to structures that took much of the fun out of WvW for me and I have been trying to adjust my attitude so I can still enjoy one of the best game modes ever created by the gaming industry.

Edit: year old thread oops, well I needed something to do while waking up and drinking my coffee /shrug

Hyper Cutter.9376:

WvW map completion was removed for a kitten ed good reason, even aside from the fact that it should never have counted in the first place because it’s not even on the actual map.

The population balance in WvW is 100% a player-created problem, and there’s really only two solutions that will actually work: bring WvW into the loving arms of the megaserver or remove some servers and shuffle their inhabitants into the population of the rest. Neither is a very popular option, to say the least.

Didn’t really create this thread to discuss solutions to pop-balance but I have to disagree with you in that there are more than two viable solutions to solving this issue.

I also have to disagree with map completion being removed from WvW for good reasons. I think it’s a perfect example of NcSoft/Anet’s knee jerk, shallow thinking pattern they have display all too often. They could have easily reworked the vista, wp, poi requirements for WvW instead of completely removing it. Good example of this is the PvP side of the game. I had never done any PvP before HoT, was strictly a WvW player, but after the downfall of WvW and trying to find a way to still play and enjoy the game I eventually landed in the PvP zone and played it for a couple of weeks. The point being… the only reason I even tried PvP was I wanted the back piece skin, but during the process I learned about PvP and now do it every so often just for kicks, it gets boring really fast tho. Map completion was a way to expose most players to all areas of the game which was a good idea.

BlueBoy.1236:

I don’t know if i should take any of your comments seriously after reading this.

Yeah sounds complicated and from someone that maybe smoked too much weed. I have to say tho, if you stop and really think about this it isn’t that hard to implement. I can hear players yelling now wtf you took over my claimed tower and getting all huffy, but the WvW community isn’t all bimbo’s and this could work easier than it sounds if implemented correctly. Plus it solves several issues all at once… keeps no +5 and guild that has it isn’t online, trolls building siege and wasting keep supplies, structures not claimed because there is no direct responsibility placed on anyone(but with this change a guild truly is 100% responsible for the house keeping), troll guilds that claim stuff and then never upgrade it. The biggest issue in making it work is the map voting system but this could easily be implemented it just sounds weird, but with careful planning and implementation it would be easy and non-intrusive to game play.

Originally felt it was probably going to be a bad idea and after playing some since last patch I honestly don’t even notice it that much. It really only caters to a small group of players, probably overall it was a bad Idea but /whatever it doesn’t affect me much but new players I worry about.

Jayne.9251:

How do you deal with troll guilds that claim a structure and do nothing? That was an issue prior to HoT.

Fix it to where a guild can take over a structure with the approval of say 3 other guilds permission. This needs to be done anyway. How many times have you wished that you could +5 your keep but can’t because its claimed and the guild that has it claimed has no one online. If a guild wants to take over a claimed structure they should be able to even if the current guild disagrees. Its just a matter of setting up a sort of map voting system to allow it or not, based on what the majority of players that vote want. Care needs to be taken in this implementation there are several ways that even this could be circumvented and cause problems but with proper implementation this issue is solvable. If it were me I would even go a step further and only allow guild members or approved non guild members to place siege in a structure. This helps with trolls that want to use up all of the supply or even noobs that are clueless about placing siege even tho their intentions are good. Guilds should also have the ability to disallow a certain player from taking supply from a structure they have claimed and this ability should also be included with any non members that have been given the permission to manage a guilds assets. Non guild members that have been give these permissions should retain this privilege and should be able to help with any structure this guild has claimed and the right to do this should be perpetual so it doesn’t have to be done every time a new structure is claimed. It would be easy in the guild window to setup a list of approved players that have the permission to help manage a guilds structures. Guilds also should be able to revoke this permission as they see fit.

Jayne.9251:

Jayne.9251:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

slingblade.1437:

Remove the coin cost from upgrades. Hundreds of supply is enough of a cost already.

Yes.

The supply and time it takes is enough. There shouldn’t be any cost out of the players pockets.

Completely agree.

I know this is a complete no-no resurrecting an old thread, but given the context of current threads, I think it’s interesting to go back and re-read what we were asking for.

In this instance, it’s ambiguous. My own comments are that removing the cost associated with upgrading was a good idea .. but I think the concept behind that was still letting players determine when/how/why.

Mind you, with experience and hindsight, removing costs would have done nothing to deter upgrade trolls. So not sure what the solution should be.

I just know the auto upgrades have not been well received.

Managing trolls is easy…

NcSoft(Anet) needs to fix it where only guild members of a claimed structure can upgrade it. They also need to allow the members with appropriate permission to authorize certain players outside of the guild to do upgrades, also giving this player the permission to pass along his authority to upgrade the guilds structure to someone else when he logs off. This way a guild could approve several players they trust to handle upgrades and hence completely take trolls out of the picture. If implemented correctly ie… structures not claimed can be upgraded by anyone including trolls would encourage WvW’ers to start claiming structures as to prevent trolling. Often times many structures in WvW are not even claimed and that needs to be fixed and this solution addresses that and solves the trolling issues.

Swamurabi.7890:

To answer the OP’s question about balance, I think that WvW can grow without having balance, but only if the rewards are high enough that players overlook being outmanned. Long time players play regardless of rewards or coverage, but when a player gets tired of the same thing night after night, well, we all know what happens. Let’s be realistic here. How can you have a 24/7 match that’s balanced whenever a player enters and leaves a map?

Replacing retiring players with more new players equals growth.

Balance is only one of several reasons why WvW doesn’t get new players. One of the biggest reasons why new players entered WvW was because of map completion. How many of us got on WvW for map completion and stayed because we liked WvW? No incentive, no new players. Tournaments added incentive but the transfers before the season started did more harm to WvW.

Another reason why WvW doesn’t get new players is that they’re on a server that’s outmanned or they are on a tier that has few players when they want to play. How many zerglings don’t play because they’re on a low population tier? How many roamers don’t play because they’re on a tier with few roamers?

Also there’s those players that would like to play WvW but they’ve read the forums and their main profession isn’t wanted. One of the reasons I’ve never played sPvP is that I mained a Necro and Necros were for the longest time not wanted on a team. Rangers have been to WvW like Necros were to sPvP, not wanted.

Lot of good stuff in this post and I agree completely. How many times I have thought…

(((Man if NcSoft(Anet) would just do some pop-balance fixes, it doesn’t have to be perfect just enough to hopefully deal with empty maps during off peak times. If they did this GW2 would own the world)))

But Swamurabi.7890 I never really thought about what brings them to WvW in the first place. Myself it was just a given, heck first thing into my little brain each morning when I wake up is, I wonder what WvW is going to be like today. I think some of us forget that many new players have never done WvW/PvP/RvR or whatever you call it. One of the things that always kittened me off in map chap is the ridiculing of new people in WvW when they asked what seems to be a silly question. The number of new players that I have befriended in hopes that I could help them get over the hump and become a regular WvW for our server is long.

Back to point… The one thing you said that really stuck with me is…

“One of the biggest reasons why new players entered WvW was because of map completion.”

Now that in of itself isn’t a revelation, but it does make one stop and think of all the reasons a WvW’er must enter pve land to get something done and why isn’t the opposite true for pve’ers.

That being said tho, I personally feel that if pop-balance isn’t in a reasonable state no amount of new players coming into WvW will make much difference. Give them a few weeks and they will give up on WvW like so many others.

The current state of WvW match-ups is they are decided as soon as they are put out each week. Everyone knows which server they will beat and which ones they will not beat, and that’s pathetic. Skill level isn’t the deciding factor is all about map coverage, aka “population balance”.

Swagger.1459:

Most likely this “population balance” fix will come when the update drops.

I hear ya, but NcSoft/Anet sometimes doesn’t seem to have very good priorities. I can see them continuing to ignore this issue which imho is the single most important issue that runs players off in WvW. Sure lots of other things are important but without population balance, retaining players isn’t gonna happen and I just wonder how big of an issue NcSoft/Anet’s views pop-balance. Recently(since HoT) I see threads about dead game mode and empty maps etc but very few people actually complaining about population balance. Furthermore if they implement it without player feedback and listening to them this time, I don’t feel good about any implementation addressing pop-balance coming down the pipe. This one single issue I think would satisfy many players if NcSoft/Anet would at least open a discussion with us about whats in the plans for this issue.

BTW, answering my own question, yes I have many friends that would come back and play WVW if it’s fixed and obviously I feel player retention would probably double if not triple over what it is atm.

How about your friends would they come back or would it take more than balancing population?

FogLeg.9354:

If you want to talk about WvW population balance why you keep dragging NcSoft back into this thread again and again?

Why you keep posting to THE thread about stuff that has nothing to do with WVW and the topic at hand. Let me SPELL it out for you.

C A N Y O U A N S W E R T H E P O S T E D Q U E S T I O N

Sound it out and maybe it will sink in…

FogLeg.9354:

Well, you keep bringing incorrect developer into this thread so obviously people keep correcting you. If you just want to discuss WvW population, why mention NcSoft? Are you suggesting WvW in GW2 has issues because Anet is owned by NcSoft? Or GW2 players should try to pressure NcSoft somehow to make WvW better?

You start the thread with

If NcSoft doesn’t fix the WVW population balance…

And thats incorrect. Looks like you are really obsessed with NcSoft, why else would you keep bringing them into thread which has nothing to do with the games they develop or publish.

Why not try to actually answer the question posed? FYI, again, if you think NcSoft has nothing to do with Anet you are sorely mistake. NcSoft is a publicly traded company and if stock holders felt for a moment that NcSoft wasn’t managing their assets with the utmost diligence their stock price would fall like a rock. This may be a game to you but to NcSoft it’s an investment and stock holders expect a return and growth.

I find it truly amazing the people that don’t understand business and how it works. Would you put your hard earned cash into stock of a company that doesn’t manage their assets diligently? NcSoft had a massive failure in the recent past with other games and the last thing they want is one of their main cash cows “GW2” to start faltering. I imagine Anet taking over the publishing of GW2 at least in a publicly viewed sense has much to do with damage control due to NcSoft’s failures in other games. Anet only took over the publishing because NcSoft wanted them to for reasons that protect and grow their asset.

kitten lets not talk about the real issues of WVW population balance and try to save face for making dumb statements and replies!

Dawdler.8521:

Noob.5908:

Furthermore is this not the GW2 WVW board? Seems to me I am addressing Anet otherwise I would have emailed NcSoft… /rollseyes

NCSoft is no longer the publisher of GW2. Anet is. NcSoft has nothing to do with GW2. Yes, on this forum you will be addressing Anet. If they want to listen, which I doubt. Pretty pointless to argue.

NcSoft isn’t the official publisher but they still own Anet period. I guess asking you to actually respond to the topic of the post is asking too much, you seem more worried about NcSoft.

FogLeg.9354:

Just because one company owns another, does not mean they are actively engaging in every minor aspect of business they own.

Get over who owns who. GW2 is developed by Anet and if you want something done, you need to talk to Anet about it.

Why the hell you trying to defend NcSoft, you own some of their stock lol? If for a moment stock holders of NcSoft thought they were not diligently managing their assets NcSoft stock price would drop like a rock. I find it amusing the number of people that have been worried about the mere mention of NcSoft on these boards. Seems if u want to be heard just add NcSoft to your post somewhere and they come out of hiding heh! WVW is a minor aspect? LMFAO!

Maybe try actually voicing your opinion about the question posed in the post rather than defending NcSoft/Anet. I know this actually requires you to use your brain but its worth asking.

Furthermore is this not the GW2 WVW board? Seems to me I am addressing Anet otherwise I would have emailed NcSoft… /rollseyes

Dawdler.8521:

Ncsoft have nothing to do with GW2 anymore.

Also, “fixing” the population balance will require nothing short of a miracle. A miracle I seriously doubt is ever going to happen. Especially not without Raptor Jesus looking over us.

NcSoft still owns GW’s they have a lot to do with it. Anet just took over the publishing of GW’s but it is still owned by NcSoft and they still have a parents voice in anything that Anet does. I give ya it’s more complicated than that and I am sure NcSoft is trying to keep the Anet team happy and working but NcSoft still owns Anet.

This forum is a place to chat for sure just look at all the threads but… If NcSoft doesn’t fix the WVW population balance NOTHING mentioned here(there are plenty of good ideas) is really going to matter. NcSoft has lost so many WVW’ers because of population balance and frankly nothing is going to bring them back for any amount of time if this isn’t fixed. Forget bugs, future updates, forget xpacs, little green men, badge tweaks, rocket ships, fishing poles and underwater scuba gear and naked women… if population isn’t fixed first any new or returning WVW’ers will come play a couple weeks and leave again or quit permanently if this isn’t fixed.

Updated – Question Posed

Quote from Ulion.5476

Any idea of fixing the coverage issue will take awhile to implement and break up some wvw communities.

Didn’t start this thread for talking about how to fix it there are many ideas in forum on how to do this. It’s my opinion that as far back as a year after launch of GW’s when they implemented the server transfer thingy that population balance became more of a problem. My question to players is how do you feel about this do you think population balance is THE MOST IMPORTANT issue atm and if it was fixed do you think players would come back and play WVW and the retention of newer players would be longer?

briggah.7910:

hedix.1986:

briggah.7910:

guess you guys preferred the same ones you been looking at for years?

::shakes head::

If something is useful, looks well and works well, I don’t mind looking at it for years. In fact, these changes just for the sake of change, that end up making things silly or breaking them – that is something I’d prefer never to look at.

yea man. the new siege skins really broke the game mode even more..

This thread just goes to show that no matter what they do not everyone will be happy. I can’t believe people are actually complaining about siege skins. Still does the job no matter how it looks..

Briggah the skin was just one kitten and a minor one at that. The things that kittenes me off the most about the new skins is using resources to do something that really wasn’t needed and to be honest makes placing siege a tad more difficult. There are SO MANY BUGS in WVW and Anet works on kitten that really didn’t need any changing and does stupid kitten like this. Its like removing the rapture in the sky above sm wtf, he wasn’t bothering anyone, NcSoft/Anet’s priorities are kittened up.

Jski.6180:

Noob.5908:

IDEA… Uninstall GuildWars(aka PosWars) and never never ever ever buy a game from a Korean company like NcSoft again. American gaming companies ftw!

So give up RvR for at least a year? If you did not like RvR all that much it should not be a problem but the truth of things is GW2 IS the best rvr game out there.

At launch this was true but not now. GW2 wvw sucks nowadays, hell even builds suck now and the hacks are rampant. My point as above GW was designed by an American company and bought by an Korean company and they have trashed it. No more Korean games for me there just isn’t any jeong with NcSoft/Anet.

IDEA… Uninstall GuildWars(aka PosWars) and never never ever ever buy a game from a Korean company like NcSoft again. American gaming companies ftw!

No matter how much you try to scrape the bad stuff off it still leaves a bad taste.

1.) Skills way to complicated
2.) Conditions are way to much
3.) Stealth is /shakes head
4.) AOE is out of control
5.) CC is /haha
6.) Upgrade system is kitten
7.) New siege toys are… well u know
8.) Empty maps suck
9.) Population balance sucks
10.) New siege art feels like a 5 year old designed it
11.) No DD decent casters
12.) PVE in WVW is for morons
13.) Bakers dozen… someone pass the bread I need to just throw this toast away and make some more.

Long live American gaming companies, no jeong with NcSoft/Anet.

Dude… why are you here begging people to play and give things a shot? I think your whole message pretty much spells out ded game mode give it a rest. I have to admit tho this is a first, never seen anyone beg other people to play a game before… for that you get a star I guess lol

Rocknull.2986:

Maybe I simply don’t play enough? Maybe my skewed perception of wvw because when I log in its with a guild full of people ready to play together

This is the same mistake that Anet/NcSoft made in their thinking. Large guilds or even small mid size guilds are not what makes WVW work. When you discount the solo player and the pug blobs you get what we have to date…. well its a tad more complicated than this but I am tired of explaining it. You just like Anet/NcSoft have “BIG” disease. Well enjoy your play time on the empty maps you can PVD your heart out and 30vs2 the few people you find. Myself I’m holding out till something better comes along.

Nusku.3941:

WvW isn’t dead wtf you talking about.

WVW may not be dead but its on life support and being keep alive with auto upgrades and meta events so considering those things I guess your right. But honestly here on Earth most people consider WVW dead. BTW what planet you from I want go there so I can find some pleasure in WVW again.

Oleman – SBI

insanemaniac.2456:

ncsoft is not to blame. all they do is own anet, they dont make any decisions regarding the stuff youre mad at. you can stop crediting them.

If you think NcSoft doesn’t control Anet you are wrong. NcSoft is a publicly traded company and the revenue streams and profits is what drives stock prices. NcSoft stock holders would bail in an instant if they ever felt NcSoft wasn’t watching over their assets diligently. GW2 is a game to us but it’s an investment to the owners and stock holders of NcSoft and they expect profits and growth or the asset gets sold off or shut down.

KOPPER.1458:

a lot of the times it sounds like players just want an open space to have large scale fights in? Am I incorrect in this?

It’s not complicated but no it’s not just an open space for large fights. WVW’ers want AI removed from WVW and maps that are easy to navigate as to get to the action quickly and yet are visually stimulating. We want guild housing or personal housing that isn’t complicated and held back by tons of grinding and is fair to all players not just large guilds. WVW is more than just large fights that’s just one small aspect of it. We want things to work towards in WVW like custom siege skins or gizmos, tower skins and/or decorations and better notification to the guilds that own assets so they can defend. We want population balanced in match-ups and match-ups that change often so we are not fighting the same people week after week. That’s the nutshell short version, nothing that Anet couldn’t do fairly easy.

After listening to the guild chat in regards to the upcoming update… I heard nothing that makes me want to log into gw2 and play WVW again. I am very disappointed that Anet/NcSoft still doesn’t get the issues the HoT update created and why people have stopped playing WVW. Having over 9k hours invested into WVW, I jump at any information in hopes of hearing that they really learned a hard lesson about what makes WVW work but its seems they have not. I use to spend 6-16 hours a day playing WVW and did so since the launch of GW2 but last week I played GW2 maybe 2 hours, I am lost for words and tired of even trying to voice my opinion about all of this. It’s hard to let go of WVW and its a terribly distressing topic for me. I mark this latest release of info from Anet/NcSoft as part of the mourning process of learning to live without WVW, but I still can’t help myself from trying to educate this company, even tho deep down I know its really a futile attempt. But here goes anyway…

Anet/NcSoft please read…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/How-to-Fix-WVW-Part-Three/first#post5828948

If 30-40 people can’t take….. no wait, if 15 people can’t take a keep from 5 people they need to delete and go play barbie dolls or something easier!

Doubt this post will last long before the mods delete it and suspend you for a few days but nevertheless… WELL SAID DUDE! Unfortunately the culture of Korean gaming doesn’t think like most Americans and they could careless about customer satisfaction, it’s strictly about how much the old cow can make for them. If it doesn’t generate income its not important to Anet.

My GW2 play time has been cut to 5% of what it was. I have posted several articles on how to fix WVW and my attitude towards other things happening in this game currently but… After having time to reflect over my feelings about it all, there is one thing that has stayed with me.

A company that take’s a game mode like WVW and dumps SO MUCH CRAP into it and changes the dynamics of WVW both on a solo player level and a guild/zerg level just can’t be trusted. I had over 9k hours invested in WVW and even if they make a bunch of new changes and WVW gets better I just don’t have any confidence in Anet being able to make reasonable decisions when it comes to changes and how those changes affect their player base. I am also still very angry about it all. WVW will never have the excitement it once had, it’s pretty much game over.

Oleman – SBI

That’s just NcSoft blowing smoke up ur…. The only metric NcSoft cares about is how to increase cash flow and milk this puppy to death. If they could figure out a way to get rid of everything except LA and still get your hard earned cash they would do it. Guess that’s what we get for buying a game from a company based out Korea. Hell they been trying to do hostile take overs of the larger gaming companies forever. Fortunately we still have a handful of US gaming companies that understand the old saying “A Happy customer is a paying Customer”. Long-live US gaming companies they’re our only hope.

This is why auto upgrades is killing the game not to mention it kills the ability to socialize on our one third because no one is there, because there is nothing to do.

msalakka.4653:

The automatic upgrades are fantastic. Anytime my server faces other servers of lower ranking, we can just flip their border and leave it entirely and it’ll be T3 in no time. It’ll be funny watching the one or two scouts they have trying to keep camps flipped to prevent the auto-upgrades.

Another great thing is, we don’t really need scouts either. It takes those lower rank servers with their small groups so long to get through our T3 walls on their border that even if they make it to lord we can wp in anytime we want and snuff them out. Even if we die, just instantly respawn right next to lord, lol. It’s hilarious.

Then again if they did manage to flip it and somehow upgrade it to T3, it takes our zerg less than 6 minutes from outer gate to ring up (I’ve timed it), whereas their small groups grow white beards by the time they see a glimpse of the lord room. So no big.

Please don’t change a thing; we don’t want to have to leave people behind from our karmatrain to actually scout, siege, and guard those keeps. This is working as intended.

This is why auto upgrades is killing the game not to mention it kills the ability to socialize on our one third because no one is there, because there is nothing to do.

msalakka.4653:

The automatic upgrades are fantastic. Anytime my server faces other servers of lower ranking, we can just flip their border and leave it entirely and it’ll be T3 in no time. It’ll be funny watching the one or two scouts they have trying to keep camps flipped to prevent the auto-upgrades.

Another great thing is, we don’t really need scouts either. It takes those lower rank servers with their small groups so long to get through our T3 walls on their border that even if they make it to lord we can wp in anytime we want and snuff them out. Even if we die, just instantly respawn right next to lord, lol. It’s hilarious.

Then again if they did manage to flip it and somehow upgrade it to T3, it takes our zerg less than 6 minutes from outer gate to ring up (I’ve timed it), whereas their small groups grow white beards by the time they see a glimpse of the lord room. So no big.

Please don’t change a thing; we don’t want to have to leave people behind from our karmatrain to actually scout, siege, and guard those keeps. This is working as intended.

Jana.6831:

Weakest class with weakest spec here – and even I can cap T3 camps Time to get better!

Didn’t say I couldn’t cap a fully upgraded camp sure any class can, but some classes its a pain. Personally if I am gonna go on a camp capping run I prefer my guard it kills faster and has speed to get there.

Jana if your on a lower tier server with fewer players and having a problem getting upgrades done its not the upgrade system that’s the problem it’s the server population imbalance that Anet has ignore to the point that most people quit playing. I am on what was an active server and yes we had a family of players to work on our one third. The point being is all the hot changes have caused even servers that use to be active to become ghost towns and auto upgrades is one of a handful of the reasons for it being like this. If your saying you want auto upgrades because your server doesn’t have enough players I would be more concern about getting players into WVW and I telling you that on a server that had players they all quit and auto upgrades is one of the reasons.

Maps don’t just start each day with a zerg on the map it usually starts with handful of players working together for a common cause and builds from there. When I tag up with only 2-3 people on the map I start with small stuff and build a following from there. Honestly tho I don’t even care to tag in this environment with all the new players taking a fully upgraded tower has become an exercise of patience vs calling them all morons. Can it be done sure I have done it more times that I can count, the point is key veteran players have lost their interest in leading the pack because they know the chances of building up to 10-20 players and fighting the team that is currently owning our tier isn’t gonna happen there just isn’t enough people. Again its server imbalance that’s the main problem but losing most of our regular WVW’ers has made the situation worse.

Again WVW has been broken and the main reason is because veteran players have quit playing, mainly because….

((((((BL maps are too confusing and dreary, too much of a pve feel to the BL maps, auto upgrades was a really really did I say really bad idea(should’ve just lowered cost to upgrade). Guild changes and guild upgrading is too expensive and treats small guilds like dirt (this is a big deal).))))))

Jana.6831:

And why do you consider manual upgrades to be that important?

I am against anything that is automatic and takes out player participation. WVW stops working when there is no players or very few on the map. Fighting non stop just isn’t feasible sometimes people need a break and other things to do. With auto upgrades that means stand around in keep/tower and be bored. Taking a break from fighting use to mean checking upgrades, refreshing siege, scouting, escorting yaks and maybe capping orge, frogs or dredge and sometimes capping a enemy camp so they have something to do besides cap our camps. With auto upgrades and the changes that are purposed taking a break means….

1.) No need to check upgrades I have no control or very little control over it.
2.) Refreshing siege is well… no one does this anymore because people are all burned out refreshing siege and missing it by 10 minutes and losing it all. Siege timers need to be 3 hours so the game doesn’t burn out players.
3.)Cap orges? Sure I can still do this but I have no investment nor does anyone else in seeing our camps become stronger. Defending supply camps for the most part has become a “who cares” we will just recap which has always been a problem at times but is worst now with fewer players on the map.
4.) Escort yaks? Nobody likes to do this and only 1 in 100 yaks I kill in WVW do I ever find someone escorting a yak.
5.) Cap enemy camps sure I can do this but chances are its fully upgraded and unless I am on the right character it becomes a pain. Not to mention there is no way to tell what the enemy is up to by checking camp upgrades. I use to run by camps and see if a upgrade has been ordered at least I would know a real live player had been there recently and made capping camps a tad more exciting because this player just might come try and defend.

See my post above in response to PopeUrban.2578 for more info.

In summary most of the reason for players being in their 1/3 have been removed from the game. When your 1/3 is a ghost town players come into WVW don’t see a tag and think kitten it I will go pve, maybe they port to the keep to see if anyone is there and when they see no one they finally decide to go pve or worst yet log out. The number of players that use to work together to defend camps, escort yaks so they could get a WP in the keep or get a tower upgraded is gone. Basically our little family of 1/3’ers looks like they are getting promoted to glorified yak runners because Anet thinks they can make us like doing things we don’t like. Players come in all skill levels and lower skilled players feel useless in WVW now. Our 1/3 should be alive with people doing things but with all these changes there just isn’t much reason to be there and that gives players coming into WVW right off the bat the impression the map is dead.

Jana.6831:

And I don’t really think that autoupgrades is the reason for people to not play wvw anymore.

It’s not “THE” reason its one of the reasons.

Taken from one of my other post…

The reasons for many WVW’ers quitting is mainly…

((((((BL maps are too confusing and dreary, too much of a pve feel to the BL maps, auto upgrades was a really really did I say really bad idea(should’ve just lowered cost to upgrade). Guild changes and guild upgrading is too expensive and treats small guilds like dirt (this is a big deal).))))))

The above is just considering HoT. The main reason for players quitting since gw2 launch is population balance has gone unchecked and matches are decided before they even get assigned. Most servers have no chance to win, who the kitten is gonna play that?

Jana.6831:

I think that those who want the manual upgrades rarely did the upgrades themselves, sorry. So it’s kind of moot to discuss something that is then left for others to do anyway.

Your the second person that recently said something like this. I want to point out I myself spent 500+ gold a month on WVW upgrades and siege so I am not speaking from a point of view that hasn’t walked in the shoes that I am preaching. Furthermore I feel like most people that like auto upgrades probably rarely ever upgraded anything and that’s why they love auto upgrades. It’s harder for the enemy to cap assets while they’re out doing other stuff, but they fail to realize one of the reasons the map has fewer players is because of auto upgrades. Also speaking from experience is that all the people that use to run around our 1/3 on SBI during off-times have stopped logging in anymore. There are many people on my friends list, all of which came from WVW, it use to be full of people online now its full of people that are not online.

Auto upgrades was a big mistake and is one of the reasons WVW is empty. I think many people expressing a point here are discussing the purposed fixes from a narrow viewpoint. How stuff is upgraded is really a petty thing if there isn’t anyone on the map to play with.

I can’t even remember all the new people I have seen come into WVW and usually if they’ve never done a PVP or WVW type game they tend to be a tad gun-shy and usually hang around our 1/3 until they learn a bit about what WVW is all about. But in this new environment all the players that use to run around our 1/3 have disappeared and are not online anymore, so where does that leave a new WVW’er?

I can deal with power creep and unbalanced classes that’s within my control. Having empty maps though is pretty much out of my control and depend on Anet for a fix. Myself and many others have a tremendous amount of time invested in WVW, over 9k hours myself. We deserve to be heard and hope that Anet is listening.