Guild Wars 2

Vukorep.3081:

Id say more vitality. More vitality means more life force, and a higher max life force means all the skills and mechanics that increase your life force (which are all % based) will pump more life force.

Think of it like this, some classes have passive regeneration and other healing abilities that heal them for 300-700, but a single 5 targed necro staff can pump 20% of its life force every second.

20% of the usual 13/14k max life force = about 2700 life force. Imagine other professions being able to heal them self for 2700 health every second?

I didn’t know the staff trait worked that way! I thought it was just X% life force when a mark triggered at all.

On a related note, life force also depletes naturally based on percent too correct? So in that respect shroud wouldn’t last longer regardless of whether or not you built for vitality or toughness (just talking about stats, we’ll leave out Vital Persistence atm).

Thanks for the input! I appreciate getting more technical knowledge about shroud!

Hey Peeps!

In order to increase the “durability” of my shroud mechanic:

1. If I had to invest in one defensive stat to boost, what should I pick that would benefit shroud the most and why? Let’s assume I’ll be taking comparable amounts of condition and direct damage.

2. The wiki says “damage received in D.S. is reduced by 50%”. I don’t know if that is true though… and if so, how does that interact with additional toughness?

Thanks for your help!

@Inculpatus cedo: I did read the blog summary and watch the video (all 4 hours!).
I saw how everything works and I know “why” they have gone in the direction they have.

I was just wondering if we could get clarification on how many lines we could go into at once.

There are some lines I’d rather eschew the grandmaster traits for the adept level traits in another.

Edit: Found this in the blogpost ( https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-one-a-primer/ ) : "The first step in customization will be to select three of the five core specializations. " Bummer! :/ wonder if they will consider changing this.

When the specializations patch drops, will everyone be forced to run a trait spread that’s maxed in 3 lines (i.e. 6-6-6-0-0)?
Or if we wish will we still be able to spread our trait points to different lines (i.e. 6-6-2-0-4 or 1-5-6-4-2)?

I was not able to find any information regarding this aspect of specializations.

I understand many traits were merged and powerful new traits were made- which is great. But if we are being forced to max three trait lines rather than have freedom to allocate in 3-5 lines like before, I’m worried this will restrict build diversity.

I’m glad this thread was made. I have a few mixed feelings about the new TP:

PROS

• Both the listing fee and transaction fee are listed clearly
• Buying and Selling items in bulk is much faster: It is no longer necessary to re-type the amount (1-250) of good and the price I’d like to buy them when buying multiple stacks of an item. I simply need to press confirm (and close) several times.

CONS

• Listing fee and transaction fee are not calculated for the player to give a “prospective profit”- I end up having to eye-ball the numbers to give myself ballpark figures.
• The “My transactions” section doesn’t tell you how many listings you have anymore.
• The dropbox takes forever to refresh if picking up many items at a time. I often find myself having to close the TP window after I pick up items to get it to refresh faster. This is a major pain.
• Loss of the “match my lowest listing” option
• Blanks in pricing fields don’t default to zero. I have to put zeros in manually for everything.
• When selling items from my inventory, the scroll screen doesn’t “save” my spot in the list after put something up for sale- taking me back to the top.
• Having to confirm taking a buy order off of my transactions rather than immediately removing it. Much like the above bullet, when I take a buy order down, my spot in the list isn’t saved and it takes me back to the top again.

Other missing QOL Features

• Listing fee should be shown as non-refundable.
• There is still no ability to pick-and-choose what items one wants to pick up from the dropbox: it remains all or nothing.

The new TP works better and is… somewhat faster than the old one, but honestly I’m not sure if I prefer the new TP to the old one now that I look over my list of Pros and Cons.

Edit: New items under cons.

Despite the constant struggle of trying to find or make a competitive and satisfying condi Mesmer build, I still love love playing one.

So when I found out they were FINALLY buffing scepter (tailored for condi users no less) I was thrilled!

Yet seeing that so far they’ve “only” added Torment to the auto-attack, I find myself a little conflicted.

Sure, now I won’t be so upset when Scepter 2 destroys one of my valuable Staff clones since they will be complimentary damage dealing sources. I may even turn on my scepter auto-attack (yay?)… but I was hoping for something a little more active and tricky. In terms of playstyle, I feel this change makes simply makes the Scepter deadlier, but no more complex than the Staff.

Although there’s wild speculation, I’m still not convinced this scepter buff will be too powerful or insignificant, but I’m quite certain it won’t be much more fun than it is already. I would have loved to see the Scepter be gifted more utility in the form of AoE, Denial, or Punishment capabilities rather than simply a DoT on the auto-attack.

I’m grateful the Mesmer Scepter (and condi Mesmers in general) is getting attention, but I don’t think this is the way condi Mesmers should be going.

Also to all those who are fixated on the proposed Scepter auto changes: staff clones now properly inheriting Illusionary Elasticity should be something of MUCH greater concern in terms of game impact than torment on Scepter auto!

Hey Everyone!

I’ve got a power Necro that I love taking into WvW- usually running D/D w. A/F.

I do pretty solid damage, however I usually run into a lot of problems when I try to fight opponents in melee. Specifically, I find it hard for a lot of my attacks to connect to strafing opponents or basically anyone who goes out of my 150-degree-cone-forward-facing field of vision cone. Some classes, like thieves, do this liberally making them an enormous pain to fight with my build.

*Many of my attacks (DS 1, Axe 1/2, Focus 4/5, Dagger 3) are either channel skills or have painfully long cast times which means they commonly “miss” or “cancel” since they don’t track once someone goes outside of my forward field of vision.

*If I stop moving once as I cast these skills, my character will automatically adjust their orientation in order to hit their opponent (even when they stealth or blink) but this can make finishing off a running opponent difficult/impossible. The only nice exception is Dagger 2 which only requires me to initially “connect” and then stay in range to complete the life-siphon/damage. Wish other skills acted like this!

*Dagger 1, while a great DPS source, seems like it has issues connecting due to it’s non-cleave nature. Comparing it to Mesmer MH sword, it seems much more clunky in terms of hit reliability.

While I love my Necro, the lack of in combat mobility (few “blinks”, few dodges, few repositioning tools) not only hurts my survival but it’s a barrier to my damage as well.

Perhaps I simply need to accept this as a weakness of my build, but I was wondering if you all had any suggestions or tips (other than additional practice ) for holding one’s ground in melee/ close range combat as a Necro? Any suggestions for weaponsets/utilities?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

[Url= https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Lyssa-s-Grimoire-The-Ultimate-Mesmer-Guide/first#post2916343]Right hurr[/url]

Under the “illusion” definition.. though I guess I should make that particular part more informative.

Hey Chaos! I Lyssa’s Grimoire. In addition to reviewing the wiki, I read your guide prior to creating this post but I didn’t see any detailed explanation about the interaction between Illusions and Modifiers.

If you’d like to cite these findings to supplement your already impressive guide, I’d be happy to contribute.

@Curunen & Xyonon: thank you for the kind words!

Again, I didn’t create this in order to bring to light information I thought was new per se. Rather, I wanted to compliment the already impressive Mesmer-knowledge base with some well-planned study.

If people find this information completely bland and uninteresting, that’s fine; I take solace in the fun I had finding out some definitive answers for myself with studying it. If by chance I was able to provide some morsel of unknown insight to veterans or otherwise help inform new Mesmers, all the better.

@Saturn: Indeed, you are mistaken about what triggers the “on-death” traits. As has been said, any non-shatter effect that destroys a clone (lethal damage, over-writing, leash limit reached, target dying) will trigger the traits.

Confusing Combatants has long been “bugged”. While the tool-tip referred to all Illusions triggering the trait upon death, it only affected clones… until recently of course as I discovered while running my tests: a happy accident!

As for my screen shot, there are a couple of things happening there.

First of all, I summoned two iDuelists. Since I the on-death traits have fairly modest effect radii (same as Chaos Storm) the first I summoned was too far from the Heavy Target golem to hit it with it’s explode effect.

I decided to summon the Illusions on the Medium Target Golem while positioning them adjacent to the Heavy so that the confusion explode effect on their expiration could be properly observed.

Lastly, Illusions die shortly after their target does but there is often a “ghost” name marker left in the air where the Illusion expired (at least on my poor settings). I took the picture at a time where there was still confusion on the Heavy Target Golem, when the expiration-explosion residue was still in the air, and when one could see via the “ghost” name marker that it was in fact a Phantasm that triggered the trait, not a clone.

I hope that answers your questions!

Certainly, I’m not claiming this is new information. I just wanted to make sure this information was more accessible and transparent.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Might Trials (T4, T5, T6)
Gear: Rabid Amulet + Jewel, Steady staff x2 (Sup. Sigil of Battle on both), Superior Hoelbrak Rune x2, Superior Fire Rune x2, Superior Strength Rune x2
Traits: 0/30/30/0/0 Dueling 5; Chaos 1
Utiliites: Signet of Midnight, Time Warp
Base Condition Damage: 1109 (98 Bleed tix)

Might Trial Methods
The above setup was used to maximize Might duration and eliminating unwanted effects. A staff clone was summoned on an indestructible practice golem. Highest clone Bleed tick damage was recorded (using “simple condition floaters”) when only the clone was getting Might (T4), when both the clone and the caster had Might (T5), and when only the caster had Might (T6). Observations in each trial lasted for 60 seconds.

Might Trial Results
T4 (Clone Might only)
Clone was summoned on golem point-blank so that only the clone would benefit from Winds of Chaos Might
Highest Clone Bleed tick: 98
Highest Clone Might stack: 3
Highest Self Might stack: 0
Expected Highest Clone Bleed tix (if Clone benefits from its 3 Might stacks): 103.2

T5 (Clone Might + Self Might)
_Same procedure as *T4 except the caster now switched between Steady Staves of Battle to maintain 3 Self Might stacks._
Highest Clone Bleed tick: 103
Highest Clone Might stack: 4
Highest Self Might stack: 3
Expected Highest Clone Bleed tix (if Clone benefits from its 4 Might stacks and the caster’s 3): 110.2

T6 (Self Might only)
Clone was summoned far from golem to ensure neither the clone nor the caster was hit with Winds of Chaos Might. Caster switched between Steady Staves of Battle to maintain 3 Might stacks.
Highest Clone Bleed tick: 103
Highest Clone Might stack: 0
Highest Self Might stack: 3
Expected Highest Clone Bleed tix (if Clone benefits from the caster’s 3 Might stacks): 103.2

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CONCLUSIONS
As we can see, Illusions are linked to the Mesmer in the following ways:

1. Illusions inherit changes in the Mesmer’s * combat attributes* (i.e. Precision, Power, Condition Damage, Condition duration etc.)
2. Illusions do not gain benefits from modifiers on the Mesmer’s combat statistics (i.e. Critical Chance; Fury gives +20% Critical Chance)
3. Illusions do not gain benefits from having their combat attributes modified (see Might Trials).
4. Illusions CAN, however, have their individual combat statistics modified and gain benefits from them (i.e. Phantasmal Fury).

This explains why Illusions do not gain benefits from sigils/modifiers that alter Mesmer’s combat statistics (like weakness) but do gain benefits from sigils/modifiers that modify or add to the Mesmer’s combat attributes

Bonus
Phantasms Trigger Confusing Combatants now

2/17/2014

We are very lucky to have such a wealth of information about our class mechanic . However, there are still many questions regarding Illusions and their interaction with the Mesmer that remain unclear. The most common of these questions regard damage modifiers such as Might, Fury and related Sigils.

The following experiments were conducted in the Heart of the Mists to answer these interesting questions. If any have additional insights, I welcome them!

Fury Trials (T1, T2, T3)
Gear: Rabid Amulet + Jewel, Steady weapons (staff, scepter+pistol; no sigils), Superior Water Rune x2, Superior Rage Rune x2, Superior Citadel Rune x2
Traits: 0/30/30/0/0, Dueling 2,9; Chaos 1
Utilities: Sig. of Inspiration, Sig. of Midnight
Base Crit Chance: 49%
Base number of Bleeds (no phantasm or self fury): 3.92

Fury Trial Methods The above setup was used to maximize boon duration of fury while eliminating unwanted effects. An Illusionary Duelist was summoned on an indestructible practice golem and the number of bleeds were counted (sharper images ) to see how many criticals the illusion landed when both the caster and illusion have fury (T1), when only the illusion has fury (T2) and when only the caster has fury (T3)

Fury Trial Results
T1 (Phantasm Fury + Self Fury):
While Phantasm was summoned, caster attacked a nearby practice golem at point-blank range with staff to maintain permanent self-Fury.
Average # of Bleeds (of 42 Phantasm volleys): 5.85
Expected # of Bleeds (if Phantasm is affected by both its Fury and caster Fury): 7.12

T2 (Phantasm Fury only):
Replace Sig. of Inspiration with Sig. of Illusions. Caster does nothing.
Average # of Bleeds ( of 43 Phantasm volleys): 5.56
Expected # of Bleeds (if Phantasm is affected by its Fury): 5.52

T3 (Self fury only):
Remove Phantasmal Fury Trait. Otherwise, same procedure as T1
Average # of Bleeds (of 42 Phantasm volleys): 3.73
Expected # of Bleeds (if Phantasm is affected by caster Fury): 5.52

Terrible! Not going to bother with PvP until this is resolved. I already feel underpowered as is; this issue makes things immensely worse.

@zilcho: I can definitely understand the concern about not being able to stack Chill in high enough levels as a damage dealing condition.

However, I think that a build with 2-3 of some of the skills/gear listed in the OP (i.e. full set of Superior Rune of Grenth + Superior Sigil of Hydromancy) would be more than enough to keep a high amount of Chill on enemies in combination with the what is already provided by the Elementalist’s weapon skill.

Indeed, if the damage value decided for Frostbite was high enough, it might be inappropriate (read “OP” )if there were too many ways to apply or stack Chill.

Moreover, I’d be worried about the overpowering ability to keep “perma” Chill on enemies- particularly in a PvP environment. We need to remember that even without a damage component, Chill is already very potent: reducing movement speed and skill cool down by 66%.

This trait would both extend Chill duration and make it deal condition damage. “Perma” levels of Chill without Frostbite are powerful enough on their own. With Frostbite it would be imperative that Chill remain relatively rare- not as easily accessed as Burn or Bleed.

In many respects, I envision Frostbite as the Elementalist’s analogous response to the Necromancer’s Terror traits: giving them a unique trick that reflects mastery over their field of magic. And much like the use of Fear with Terror-mancers, Frostbite would allow Elementalists to use Chill as a powerful, strategic weapon condition weapon rather than an element of constant pressure a la Bleed and Burning.

Thematically, the name of and function of the proposed Frostbite trait would likely place it in the Water Magic line; this would be a bummer if one wanted to run a “pure” condition build rather than an Apothecary, Settler’s or Shaman set up.

As much as I love the flavor that trait lines add to the characters we construct, I find the current trait system too artificially limiting in trait selection and build creation process. But that’s neither here nor there.

If the trait were Adept level in Water Magic, it would be reasonably accessible and worth the 10 point investment, but perhaps far too powerful for that tier depending upon the damage value Frostbite would add to Chill.

Was looking at some articles on the wiki and became inspired:

Frostbite: Chill you apply deals damage and lasts 1 second longer

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Elemental_Power
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ice_Storm_
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Conjure_Frost_Bow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Lesser_Elementals
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Grenth
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Hydromancy

Hey everyone!

It’s always been interesting for me to read through the forums to see peoples’ opinions and analyses of different builds and play styles.

Recently, I have noticed an increasing number of people expressing their rage towards what they call the “cheesy, passive play” builds. According to these players, passive play builds require no skill to function (aka face-roll) and triumph regularly in a variety of encounters- even against players of greater skill- with seemingly no weaknesses.

What is passive play? I wondered. I still lack an adequate definition since it appears there a number of factors that people deem cheesy and passive. Some of the things I’ve seen condemned most often are:

A. Builds that can frequently enter stealth.
B. Builds that center around the effects of AI summons for pressure, damage or support (even class mechanics like Mesmer Illusions and Ranger pets).
C. Bunker builds or otherwise builds that can take withstand, heal or regenerate large amounts of damage- including builds with high vitality and/or toughness.
D. Builds which focus on dealing condition damage rather than raw damage or burst DPS.
E. Builds with high mobility or kiting capabilities
F. Builds which punish aggression with retaliatory mechanics as a major source of damage (confusion damage, retaliation, blocks/counters, auras etc.)

If all of these things are indeed “passive play”, what does that leave? Essentially, the only builds that would qualify as skillful, active play builds would be glass, ‘zerker burst damage builds that use nothing else for survival other than their healing skill, and dodges (but not too many dodges). I’ve gotten the impression from a number of people that the only proper or honorable way to fight in PvP is in this exact format.

Alright…so…

1. If passive play counts as many different things, does that make passive play a meaningful category? Should we seek to refine the definition?
2. Is “passive” play truly less skillful or less active than a glass/burst playstyle?
3. Would PvP be more fun if all of these “passive” mechanics were removed?
4. Is passive play real or just another way to for people to denigrate builds that they are weak to; In other words, are the negative attitude towards passive play builds coming mostly from those who use builds that are weak/ineffective against them? Are the scissors simply complaining about rocks?

These are the questions I am left with and I’d love to hear your opinions on the matter.

I would recommend Sword/torch. It can feel… out of place when using it in a condition build such as a PU Mesmer, but it makes more sense when you start using it for utility and defense rather than offense: blurred frenzy to evade and punish melee spikes, Illusionary Leap to save a stun-breaker OR to root a fleeing foe so you can dodge through them and summon staff clones. Additionally, sword clones stack bleeding fast, remove boons and are almost always in range for “on death” traits.

Such a combination in a condition build uses the Staff for offense/pressure, Sword/Torch for defense and utility.

Hey Lys!

As Sinaya and others have said, PU Memsers can indeed be beaten, but not every build will be able to handle it as well as others. Indeed, some builds will find it very difficult to down a PU condition Mesmer. But the same can be said for other build vs. build fights in the game.

I’ve played a condition PU Mesmer for quite some time albeit not of the typical 20/20/30/0/0 flavor. The PU Mesmer excels at fighting low vitality, direct damage users but has a much harder time fighting targets with strong healing/regenerative capabilities (due to lack of Poison and the mediocre damage of the PU Mesmer), high vitality, high condition damage builds, powerful condition cleansing, and (to a lesser extent) the ability of the target to reflect projectiles.

More specifically, some of the hardest fights I have are with:

Heavy Condition users: Mesmers in general, despite recent buffs, still have poor condition removal compared to other classes. Moreover, many PU Mesmers ( especially the one you described) run with full Rabid gear- leaving them further susceptible to damaging conditions. Cleansing conflagration is nice but it is not enough to deal with a dedicated condition damage user. PU Mesmers will have to decide to give up some of their utility stealth capabilities if they want to remove conditions competently in a fight. A Carrion or Dire stat user would the most dangerous opponent stat-wise for a Rabid Mesmer to fight.

High Mobility classes: Some classes can simply run away and reset when fighting a PU Mesmer. Like other Mesmers, PU users have great in combat mobility but will have a hard time running away or catching fleeing people. You do not have to commit to the playing ground the PU Mesmer wants to fight you on in fact, many problems with phantasms and clones of the PU Mesmer can be solved by finding more advantageous terrain (exploiting line of sight or simply moving far enough away that clones/phantasms reach their leash limit). If the fight isn’t going your way, you can run to a more advantageous fighting area or simply run away. The PU Mesmer will not catch you. Additionally, some of the PU’s key attacks (i.e. Confusing Images) are very sensitive to the target being within range and in front of the Mesmer. Flanking the Mesmer, running around a corner or simply dodging out of range of the attack will go a long way.

Classes that “outrange”: Even among PUs who use the Staff, a PU Mesmer needs to be in close quarters to fight opponents most optimally (to take advantage of on-death traits or staff bounces for example). Much of the trouble caused by the PUs illusions will be negated by out-ranging/killing high priority phantasms and clones before they can close in and attack you. Or better yet, you can fight out of range of the Mesmer and their illusion summons in the first place!

Classes with AI pets that lock target: Ironically, other Mesmers are one of the best counters to PU Memsers since clones and phantasms lock target once summoned and persist on that target when stealth drops. Part of the advantage of running the PU Mesmer stealth is the target drop and/or misdirection that comes with it- great against human players. However, AIs like Illusion summons (as long as they were summoned on the PU Mesmer of course) are not prone to this and will attack the PU Mesmer with impunity once their stealth drops. If the PU Mesmer knows this, they can counter play, but the fight no longer continues in their favor the longer it goes on.

Beyond all this, the best advice I can give when fighting a PU Mesmer is to be patient! If you are committing to the fight, wait for the Mesmer to present themselves, anticipate their obvious spikes ( Magic bullet +iDuelist/Confusing Images, The Prestige + Illusionary counter) and you will have a much easier time fighting them.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve accidently started using my heal and wanted to cancel it (to prevent full CD) or how many times I’ve been stuck reviving someone and have been unable to move to avoid a big attack!

Up until this point I’ve had to dodge to cancel both of these actions. This isn’t terrible exactly but, I’d rather conserve my dodges as much as possible in combat.

Just browsing through the Control/Keybindings settings in the Options menu and I was kinda shocked to see that there was no “cancel action” hotkey to assign. My guildies said that the Escape key works to cancel actions, and indeed it does, but I don’t have anyway to assign it to anything more wieldy… unless I’ve completely overlooked it in the options menu.

On a related note: I would love the option to have “weapon swap priority”- whatever action you might be doing would be automatically interrupted to favor weapon swapping. There’s been a number of times when casting a slow attacking spell like Winds of Chaos and I’ve needed to quickly change to MH Sword for blurred frenzy but WoC needed to complete casting before the weapon swap took effect, leading to a very frustrating death! Turning off AA has helped but has not remedied the problem.

If these options already exist, please let me know. Otherwise, in lieu of implementation, I would love to hear any tips you guys have for the above problems of self-action cancelling and reliable weapon swapping.

Pyroatheist.9031:

The scepter autoattack SHOULD have a unique aspect that the clones can inherit.

The scepter autoattack SHOULD NOT have a condition.

Conditions on autoattacks are bad. They produce spammy gameplay that is only countered by spammy condition cleanses. It’s not fun, it’s not skillful, and it shouldn’t exist. There are already more than enough autoattacks (including Mesmer staff) that have conditions. Scepter doesn’t need to join the already too long list.

I certainly understand the concern with having Auto-Attacks apply conditions and their link to “spammy” gameplay, but does that mean that auto-attacks without conditions are spammed less than their peers with conditions?

I think having conditions on auto-attack is part of what creates spammy gameplay but such a position is only telling part of the story; simply removing conditions from auto-attacks wouldn’t stop them from being spammed, it would just change the reasons for spamming.

As long as there is an auto-attack feature, as long as slot 1 skills remain with-out cool downs and, as long as one can attack a target with impunity (i.e. can attack on the move, won’t have their attacks reflected or proc negative effects etc.), and as long as slot 1 skills can provide greater effects than other tools in a players kitten nal that are off CD, we will always have a strong capacity for mindless and spammy gameplay.

I do not foresee them instituting slot-1 cooldowns or skill-rooting-on-skill use nor do I see them removing the auto-attack feature. Due to these factors we will always have a measure of spam-heavy combat.

However, in order to keep auto-attacking from being the most optimal way to do combat, we need to make sure that the other utilities and weapons skills available to a player are more lucrative and more situationally effective.

It is fine for auto-attacks to have conditions (or other effects on them for that matter), as long as their usefulness doesn’t exceed optimal situational circumstances- like other weapon and utility skills.

If an auto-attack’s effectiveness grows to exceed situational usefulness, any auto-attack whether they have conditions on them or not will be spammed in a “mindless” unskilled manner.

@Xaylin and @clipnotdone

Thank you both for the feedback, I’m glad you found my suggestions for the scepter interesting! I’ve edited my post to clarify a few points on my suggestions.

Specifically, Confusing Images would have the instant activation time of Shield of Wrath while being able to buff nearby allies similar to Protector’s Strike. the instant activation would allow for an “on demand” block that could be applied to nearby allies.

Indeed, it would function effectively as another “block”, but it would have different goals and uses than Illusionary Counter:

1. Confusing Images could be used to cover an action- like a heal, elite skill or even Illusionary counter!

2. It allows the Mesmer to do other things- unlike Illusionary counter which requires an action commitment. The shield would persist until its duration expires or an attack is blocked allowing the Mesmer to weapon swap or dodge if necessary without losing the benefit of having activated Confusing Images.

3. It acts as a support tide turner- growing stronger the more allies are nearby. When Confusing Images blocks an attack, it generates AoE regen, blindness and confusion. Its effects would be compounded on nearby allies and enemies if multiple shields break at once in the same proximity.

I was at one point thinking of adding an “if not destroyed before duration expires= end effect” to Confusing Images, but I figured that would be too much going on in one skill which was already punishing enough. Besides, if the shatter effect of Confusing Images is intimidating enough stops foes from attacking during it’s short duration, then I think that’s the best kind of “end effect”- and very fitting to the core of the Mesmer.

That being said, I do think the sequence skill on Illusionary Counter could warrant rework to fit the “kitten ed if you do, kitten ed if you don’t” punishment and support aspect a al Xaylin’s suggestion.

Lastly, a number of people have suggested that the Scepter Auto-Attack should not be modified to include a damaging condition or another unique aspect. I’m very interested to know why.

As it stands the clones are very inferior damage-wise and offer no utility. Certainly I can understand not wanting to overload the auto-attack, yet without something else scepter clones are just too lacking. Perhaps this is a non-issue to power build Mesmers, but it limits this weapon’s use for condition and support Mesmers who already have scanty weapon options.

It’s hard to get a true feel for how this sigil is doing compared to it’s major competitor- Superior Sigil of Earth- in the field. Torment is a rare condition and gets its own stack, making it very visible when it procs whereas Superior Sigil of Earth procs “invisibly” most of the time, being buried underneath other bleeds the Mesmer is creating.

However, the math I was able to run revealed that Superior Sigil of Earth is still far superior to Superior Sigil of Torment- even in cases where the target is constantly moving.

Basically, the issues are the cooldown and the chance to proc. While the torment lasts longer and can do more damage in a single application than the bleed, Superior Sigil of Earth has twice the chance to proc compared to Superior Sigil of Torment and has a cooldown of only two seconds (compared to Sigil of Torment’s 7).

There are however a few instances where Superior Sigil of Earth is inferior to Superior Sigil of Torment:

1. When the target already has max or near max bleed stacks. Applying additional bleeding can be redundant and quickly replaced by other players rendering Sigil of Earth useless. This case most often happens underwater and against world bosses.

2. When fighting 4 or more creatures. According to my the work I did, over the course of 14 seconds of combat, Superior Sigil of Earth does about 74% more damage than Superior Sigil of Torment. However, Superior Sigil of Torment does have an AoE component. In a zerg situation or battle fighting multiple creatures (again, 4 or more) the AoE nature of Superior Sigil of Torment allows it to out preform the single target Superior Sigil of Earth in terms of total damage done to targets.

JonPeters.5630:

I think the mesmer discussion has been pretty positive overall and productive but I wanted to bring up some points that I am seeing and some new ones as well.

Scepter
Scepter is still missing something but we don’t want to overload the autoattack as we think that promotes more mindless play and are trying to move away from builds that focus so much on the “1” skill. I feel like that scepter should be the tricksy defender that can stop enemies from attacking and defend allies, but maybe it’s single target nature is keeping that from working.

I’m glad to finally know what the Developers envision in a weapon like the scepter. For the longest time, I’ve felt that the scepter has had a bizarre identity crisis- being torn between wanting to be a power weapon and a condition weapon while doing neither particularly well. This has led to a rather bland weapon that offers little other than giving the Mesmer another way to kill their enemies- often with less efficacy than other weapon choices.

Now I think we can start thinking about the scepter outside of the box. Understanding the goals set for the scepter, I would like to see the scepter changed to be an “Apothecary” weapon. The Mesmer already has a number of ways to kill foes, but hard group support and punishment is still a departments the Mesmer could use further optimized for.

Scepter Skill 1: Ether Bolt Chain

Ether Bolt- Now confuses the target enemy for 1 second.
Ether Blast- Now causes AoE Damage, striking up to two additional foes near the target. All affected foes are now confused for 1 second.
Ether Clone- Now causes AoE Damage, striking up to two additional foes near the target. Allies around the target are now healed for a small amount. Creates a clone at the target’s location that casts the Ether Bolt Chain (clones use a modified Ether Clone that simply does AoE damage and heals nearby allies).

Discussion: Thematically, the changes to the Etherbolt chain coincide with “ether” as it is found elsewhere in the game as both an element of confusion (Ethereal combo fields) and an element of healing (Chaos armor and Ether feast). Beyond that of course, these changes add much needed utility and damage to scepter clones- who up to this point are simply useful for “on-death traits” and shatter fodder. These roles are not unique to scepter clones and other clones have an additional element of utility.

As a sidenote in response to Jon’s point, I do not think we necessarily need to fear “over-buffing” the scepter auto-attack. Auto-attacks need to be viable and serve a purpose. The few times I have to auto-attack mindlessly is only when I am at a loss for more interesting options- i.e. when I’m playing weapons like Greatsword. If there were more interesting/more effective things to do with my weapons, I wouldn’t spend my time auto attacking. However, more often than not I find spammy, mindless auto-attacking to be a syndrome of a drab or “mindless” weapon- not mindless gameplay per se.

Scepter Skill 2: Illusionary Counter
No suggestions

Scepter Skill 3: Confusion Images

This skill be has been redesigned. Now applies a Confusing Images buff to up to 5 nearby allies for a short duration, shielding them from the next attack made against them. If an attack is blocked, the shield shatters blinding and confusing nearby foes while regenerating nearby allies. Instant activation.

Discussion: In its current form Confusing Images is just another tool to damage enemies. Compared to other damaging abilities of the Mesmer, it is slow and clumsy with the “punishing” aspect of confusion being more like a perk than the goal of the skill.

The changes to Confusing Images follows the spirit of Protector’s Strike and Shield of Wrath. It’s change in functionality further develops the proposed role of team support while it’s buffed, punishing aspects allow it to keep its namesake.

The changes proposed here would also finally validate the trait Malicious Sorcery in the Inspiration line which, up to this point, has had little business being there.

TL;DR The scepter does indeed need to be looked at, but we don’t really need it to simply be another damaging weapon. We can change the scepter to be a weapon focused on the much needed Mesmer roles of team support and punishment by: Adding AoE and healing capabilities to the auto-attack and redesigning Confusing Images to protect/heal allies while discouraging foes from attacking.

Edit Notes: Clarified the Ether Bolt chain use for clones and clarified the effect radius and activation time for Confusing Images.

I have never had the search feature work in a meaningful way for me.

To test it out I can go the Mesmer forums and type “Mesmer” and get a couple of posts of people using the “Mesmer” but I type in just about anything else, even the words of a title I can see on the page I’m looking at, I suddenly get “No results found”.

Frustrating.

Ross Biddle.2367:

I used it here, 10s every 10s

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Poisoned-Apples/first#post2484121

Altered build but still run it, at least 9s every 10s.

Hey Boss! Yeah I remember scoping your build a while ago. I think the poison uptime is impressive but to me you have to sacrifice a lot in terms of runes and sigils in order to get decent uptime on poison which only affects one target (unless the Doom sigil applies to all targets of a cleaving attack?).

This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but other classes wanting to focus on condition damage don’t have to commit so much to get Poison. Or if they do, their efforts would be more rewarded. (outside of perhaps a warrior or a guardian wanting to run some sort of condi build).

Having played a condition Mesmer quite extensively, I can attest to the fact that we can down targets adequately with conditions. However, lack of reliable poison to- to decrease healing capabilities- makes Mesmers much harder pressed at countering bunker builds that have decent healing power compared to condition builds with poison.

Additionally, the rather short condition duration we have across the board makes it easy for targets to simply run away from condition stacks without much worry.

I think easier access to modest poison, would definitely help with the former issue and help assuage the latter as well.

This could be achieved by updating weapons like the scepter or staff or adding/modifying traits like this one:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Trait-Idea-Mind-Rake/first#post2668323

Hey Everyone! With the new Dire equipment stat coming out, I thought it would be the perfect opportunity to talk about an idea I have been mulling over for a while.

While the Mesmer does have access to Poison via Chaos Storm, sigils and runes, would you be for or against giving the Mesmer more reliable access to the Poison condition- built into new or existing skills or traits?

What are your comments/concerns for thematic fit, build viability, and build diversity if the Mesmer was given more access to Poison?

Indeed, just another instance of unclear game mechanics and inadequate tooltip descriptions. :P Luckily they made steady weapons in the Mists to allow us to test some of these things ourselves!

Overlord.7394:

As for shatters, the is no order, when shatter, all of your illusions run up to them and explode. All of them.

Unless I’ve misunderstood what has been written, I’d like to add some of my knowledge to this topic to clarify any confusion there might be.

1. The cap on “active” illusions- illusions that are attacking and moving normally in order to attack a foe- is three.

2. When shattering (F1-F3) all of the Mesmer’s illusions that are currently manifested in the world will stop their actions and run to their respective targets in order to shatter.

3. However, if illusions are order to shatter- and time/distance to the shatter target permits- more illusions can be summoned. Summoning additional illusions while previous illusions are ordered to shatter does not count against the “active” illusion cap since the illusions that were ordered to shatter are no longer considered active.

Thus it is entirely possible to have more than 3 illusions in the world at a time (albeit momentarily) if illusions are ordered to shatter and need time to get to their target while the Mesmer creates more. It’s simply that some illusions are active and others are attempting to shatter.

4. Additionally, the creation of additional illusions, after 3 previous illusions are ordered to shatter do NOT overwrite illusions attempting to shatter (i.e. they don’t pop/dissipate prematurely before shattering). The additional illusions created during a shatter also count for applicable traits that are dependent on the number of active illusions in the world- though these mechanics can have subtle nuances and the wording of the traits make them appear to function otherwise.

For Example: With the trait Compounding Power equipped- +3% additional damage for each active [sic] illusion in the world:

3 Illusions ordered to Mind Wrack→ Damage from each illusions’ Mind Wrack packet:
First gets a +9% damage bonus, Second gets +6% damage bonus, Third gets +3% damage bonus

3 Illusions ordered to Mind Wrack THEN a fourth illusion is summoned → Damage from each illusions’ Mind Wrack Packet: First gets a +9% damage bonus (NOT +12%), Second gets a +9% damage bonus (the first illusion shattered but fourth, active illusion now counts towards the bonus damage limit), and third gets +6% damage bonus.

I hope this helps answer your questions!

Wanted to give this thread a bump. I think this is a very clever trait that shores up the Mesmer’s rather lackluster condition applying capabilities- very good idea from the OP. It also makes confusion much more worthwhile (albeit in an indirect way), another bonus.

I still stubbornly use a condition damage build and confusion, while “nice”, certainly isn’t the focus of my condition damage. It simply doesn’t do enough.

While I think I’d still rather have confusion rebalanced to make it more useful as a stand alone, I would gladly take this a substitute/compromise.

Well done!

In addition to the minor polishes to the Mesmer profession today, one incredible fix (in my opinion) was left out of the notes!

Mesmer fans and narcissists everywhere rejoice! I give you: clone off-hand weapons!

(“But Xeranan, those Trident clones in that last picture don’t have Tridents!”) I know… >.> that little bug still needs to be fixed :P

To make these two MH weapons comparable to each other? OR do you feel like these weapons are pretty evenly matched in usefulness?

I run a condition damage Mes (I know, I know…) in both PvE and sPvP. In either realm I would never dream of running a scepter: the damage and utility of the sword and sword clones are too useful to do without. Heck, it even seems like the bleeds it generates through clones/sigils out-performs the condition damage the scepter can do.

I feel like the scepter could still use more love. Even with the addition or torment on block it is still a weak weapon. Conversely, I don’t the sword can handle any more nerfs without making it suck (which would admittedly make it comparable to the scepter imo )

A number of the following additions (all?) to the scepter would make me consider it as an alternate weapon to the MH Sword:

*Changing Scepter 1 to an “invoke” type skill like Flamestrike OR speeding up Scepter 1 attack speed

*Adding 1-2 seconds of confusion to 2-3 attacks of the Scepter attack chain

*Allow Scepter clones to use the “full” auto-attack (with a Modified “Ether Clone” that doesn’t summon anything)

*Adding a short stealth OR random short teleport upon successful block by Scepter 2

*Changing Confusion Images to work like Lightning Surge: a build up cast time that when complete does a lump sum of raw damage and 5 stacks of confusion in a small area around the target. (Scaling back Confusing Image’s raw damage by 25-33% would be justified/necessary in this instance).

What are your thoughts concerning the current state of Scepter vs. Sword?

Pyroatheist.9031:

… snip

Summary
These changes accomplished nothing positive for the mesmer class. The fact that they were made in the name of build diversity is insulting to every intelligent mesmer player. These changes, far from providing build diversity and flexibility, have significantly lowered the diversity of the mesmer class and restricted the flexibility our builds have. This is far and away the most devastating and most ill-conceived patch since this game was first released.

If anyone has not read Pyro’s post on page 2 I recommend it. Took the words right out of my mouth.

Honestly, I had high hopes for this patch. I was envisioning long awaited buffs to my condition Mesmer with buffs made to Illusionary Elasticity, Scepter and Torch, Deceptive Evasion and clone behavior! Heck, I even wondered if they were going to buff the viability of confusion!

I was incredibly disappointed with what I got instead.

My already oddly placed MH Sword (that functions better in my condition damage build than a Scepter lolwut?) just took a hit on several fronts. Now I’m being punished all the more for using it outside of a power-based build.

The scepter was “buffed” only slightly for my condition build. The auto-attack and scepter-clones were not altered at all, still remaining vastly inferior to sword auto-attack and clones. And while Torment on Scepter 2 scales much more nicely damage-wise in my build than it did before (when it was just raw damage), I still get more utility, target hits and damage from using Blurred Frenzy- even with its nerf.

Torch was untouched. Hugely disappointing. And even though Focus is powerful on its own, after several month of playing Scepter/focus then sword/focus, Sword/Focus works MUCH better as a combination.

This was done for build diversity? You made one of my weapons even worse- though STILL better than the alternative (scepter)- and still didn’t make my condition damage Mesmer more competitive. If anything, this is all the more excuse to rethink my hope in a future as a condition Mesmer and simply becoming shatter.

TL:DR- What did I get as a Condition Mesmer this patch? Not a kitten thing.

Nretep.2564:

^
…Sword clones do use the full rotation of your sword’s AA. They inflict 2x vulnerability and 1x boon removal.

Illusions cease to exist when their target dies, since they’re “meant” to be only seen by the target. Like a distorsion of reality (genjutsu). And this has a higher priority than shattering them. But to explain it rather in game balancing terms.
High damage, instant cast (while doing other things), AoE damage, Condition applying and homing attack …
And if illusions die due to a missing target, they still apply their “on death” effects.

I’m sorry if my post wasn’t clear on Sword Clones; my complaint is that their attacks do not cleave multiple opponents like the mesmer auto-attacks do and the distribution of their damage is off (Chain 1- normal clone damage, Chain 2- normal clone damage, Chain 3- Abnormally low, near zero). All other mechanics of theirs are fine.

I don’t think I understand the point you were trying to make about clones and shattering either, can you re-state it? Also, clones that are ordered to shatter on a dead target will still “shatter” with no effect- meaning no on death clone effects since they are tagged as “shattering”.

Hey CharrabungaDude!

I’m not really sure what you mean; are you talking about Sword in the Main hand (MH) or Sword in the Off-hand (OH)? Also what do you mean by not being able to Melee with it?

Both Sword Main Hand and Sword Off-hand are strong melee weapons.

Perhaps you are referring to the Two-Handed GREATsword? Indeed, that is a Ranged weapon when used on a Mesmer! Other classes use it as a melee weapons.

@Elidath Indeed all of the things I’ve posted may be working as intended, but I guess I’d like more honest tooltips and expectancies of what I’m getting from skills

“Absorbing” a projectile to me means that it doesn’t hurt me- that’s what it does on other skills like Shield of Absorption.

Why shouldn’t my clones be using clone-damage versions of Mind Stab (or other auto-attacks like WoC) like I do?

If 4. is indeed intended behavior, that’s ridiculous lol. Other attacks used against targets that die during skill use can still hit other valid living targets in the skills’ effect radius. Why shouldn’t shatters?

Also

5. The tooltip of Chaotic Dampening explicitly states that it does not affect Trident Cooldown and I appreciate that tooltip honesty but… why? Especially when blade training effects both swords and spears.

6. If Portal is used and Decoy is swapped in to replace another skill on the bar once Portal enters cooldown Decoy will enter cooldown for in sync with Portal for the duration. I’ll see if I can get a screen shot; happens to me all the time and without fail in CoF P1 or Swampland fractal when I’m commonly skill swapping.

I can actually understand why Ranged attacks do less damage on average than melee attacks from the perspective of damage taken/damage dealt perspective: theoretically, melee fighters need time to get in close to their targets and stay on top of them in order to do damage whereas ranged fighters don’t need to manage movement in the same degree. Additionally, melee fighters are in much more danger than ranged fighters as they typically have a harder time neutralizing attacks/damage.

Understanding this, If the damage pools were even between melee and ranged damage skills, melee would be at an obvious disadvantage. Thus I understand needing to have to have “weaker” ranged attacks vs. melee attacks- lower risk, lower reward: higher risk, higher reward respectively. In fact, I think in one of Anet’s earliest blog posts, they address this very rationale between ranged and melee attacks. I can be at peace with this.

However, what I have yet to reconcile is the balancing between Condition Damage based builds and Power based builds. In the field of Mesmers at least, It seems that no matter what the scenario is, Power based builds are superior to condition damage builds.

While Condition Damage is unique in that it can by-pass armor, Protection, and “on hit/on attack” effects like retaliation, confusion, traits and sigils and allows you do passive damage over time, it seems Power based builds will still out damage and kill a target faster than Condition Damaged builds- regardless of the length of combat which baffles me further.

Power based builds:
1. Can hurt non-enemy objects to a far superior degree. Objects don’t take condition damage.
2.Do not have to “compete” with other Power based builds whereas condition damage builds may have to compete for stacks.
3. Are less “risky” to play given that condition damage is limited damage ticks in a given second- limiting kill speed. The more time a target is alive allows them more time to think/react, use more heals, attacks and condition removal, allows more time for help to arrive and join the fight.

Additionally there are several monsters in the game immune to conditions ( risen Hylek, Destroyers), and other traits/runes/foods skills/combos that cleanse, reduce the duration of, or even grant immunity to conditions (i.e. Automated Response). Conversely, there are few of these affects that punish Power based builds. And none of these existing anti-Power damage effects are to the same degree- there is no 40% Damage Reduction Food!

I would love to see WoC, and perhaps the playstyle of Condition Damage builds in general, compensated a bit more in light of their lack of versatility/efficacy compared to Power based builds.

My Top 3 would have to be iWarlock, iWarden and iDuelist. But that depends on what you mean by “Best”! Some phantasms work better in some builds over others.

iWarden is a blender of death though, indeed ,unless your target is immobilized, an NPC or quite unaware of what’s going on, at least some of the damage is wasted. Regardless, this Phantasm deals the most damage in a single ability compared to other phantasms and the projectile destroying/reflecting ability is not be scoffed at. Plus, the fact that this guy can deny projectiles means that he is harder to kill than other phantasms.

Hey Peeps!

I was just wondering what you all thought of Winds of Chaos, the Staff auto-attack, as I have mixed feelings about it.

In my condition damage build, I am happy when I can proc burning or bleeding with WoC. But I have to say I can’t help but shed a tear each time me or a clone procs the 1 stack of Vulnerability for 5 seconds. With that and my abysmal base attack, all I get from my slow, relflectable projectile on a Vulnerability proc is about 285 damage- 450 if I manage to crit- compared to the 800-1300 or so I would have gotten with one of the other two conditions. Oh boy!

If my clones proc the vulnerability, they’ve essentially an wasted attack.

I still think the staff is a solid/obvious choice for a condition Mesmer but dang… that Vulnerability! I can’t really use it and I don’t know how much 2-4 stacks of vulnerability is helping my allies out as we focus on a target.

Given WoC as is, I think it’d be cool if they could do one of the following:

1. Increase vulnerability to 2 stacks and increase staff base damage OR

2. Double-Load the Vulnerability Proc with an additional condition such as 1-2 Seconds of Poison, 1 Second of Chill or 1 Second of Weakness- making this Proc more about utility and adding thematic connectivity to Chaos Storm. OR

3. Leave the current proc functionality but alter WoC to be an “invoke” skill like Flamestrike, Blood Curse, or the Alpha skill Chaos Strike with the ability to effect one additional target- friend or foe- adjacent to the target. That way I can be happy knowing that regardless of the proc I get, the attack WILL hit, much like the assurance given by using the aforementioned skills or Spatial Surge. It can be frustrating/impossible for me or my clones to hit a target with WoC when the target is running away- especially as ledges or other targets interfere with Line of Sight.

These are thoughts from a Rabid-built Mesmer.

What thoughts do you guys have? How does staff work in other builds such as Power-based or Rampager’s builds? How satisfied are you with WoC and why? I look forward to hearing what you have to say!

Some things I have noticed that I haven’t seen anyone else post on:

1. Sword Clones using Mind Spike (3rd chain ability) do close to zero damage. The damage of the previous two attacks in the chain do regular clone damage (1st two: 10-11 damage, Mind Spike 0 or 1 if Critical). Mind Spike should be doing more clone damage than the previous two attacks in the chain as that is in line with the player auto-attack.

2. None of the Sword Clone attacks cleave to hit additional enemies adjacent to the their target.

3. The first ranged attack used on a player using Mimic will still hit- dealing full damage and apply relevant conditions even though the projectile gets successfully absorbed.

4. If Illusions are ordered to shatter (Mind Wrack or Cry of Frustration) on a target, and the target dies before they reach it, the Illusions will still run to the target and shatter on its position but deal no AoE damage to adjacent foes.

Additionally, if one or two Illusions shatter and the target dies, the remaining illusion(s) will still run in and shatter on the defeated foe’s position but will not do AoE damage to adjacent foes.