Guild Wars 2

Rash.6514:

Pointy.9308:

The rifle without all skills piercing is just not enough for my style of gameplay.

PLease, bring the piercing back.

What are you talking about? Warrior’s rifle skills pierce by default now, there is no need for Crack Shot.

Just Volley and Kill Shot pierces by default now. That is what I am talking about.

I have been using warrior’s rifle ever since launch, I just love it. Especially when combined with piercing from Crack Shot trait. If I could, I would use only rifle, no secondary.

So, yeah, Crack Shot. It allowed me to attack more than one enemy and it was awesome. It requied me to position myself properly for the full effect instead of mindlessly spamming the skill numbers.

The rifle without all skills piercing is just not enough for my style of gameplay.

PLease, bring the piercing back. Or at least tell me what are your future intentions with warrior’s rifle because for me it feels like the rifle lost more than it gained. Surely there is more for it in the future.

Shinichi.9753:

The Predator I

Scarlet’s Prototype Mechanism – Can’t pick it up
Asuran Experimental Weapon – Can’t pick it up
Decrypted Weapon Research – Doesn’t give the Item after decrypting it at prof. Portmatt’s laboratory

lg

I picked up the Asuran Experimental Weapon with a character I had not have the heart finished with.

For the other two, yeah, I have the same problem. Unless the prototype is something else than that little thing on the table left of you when you get in. And, wondering, if by any chance you have to put in different coordinates than for solving the Portmatt’s Lab puzzle?

I have been busy lately and I haven´t read it all yet so take this lightly.

Have the devs said that there will be no char slot with the standard edition? Because all I have found so far are the descriptions of the packages you can buy. And nowhere it says that there is no slot. What does it say though is that there is ADDITIONAL slot with delux and ultimate editions. So, does standard edition have ONE slot and delulx/ultimate TWO SLOTS ( hence one additional slot) or is there NONE in standard and ONE in delulx/ultimate?

Has anyone ever officialy said which one of the options it is? E3 presentation maybe?

And again, I am not up to date with informations.

Trinity is old and with constant increase in technology and quality of games it should be replaced by something new. A mob should not target a guy it can not kill (tank) but rather the one that is keeping the tank alive (healer). Than DPS guy and tank the last. Or when mob is protecting something it should focus on the person trying to steal/destroy it rather than the guy facetanking him.

If you ask me, there is only one way to go. Have no calsses, no restrictions. Have players choose their weapons from all existing weapons, have them choose if they want spells, heals, leather or heavy armor. Total, unrestricted customization. Say you use GW2 mechanics as an example, meaning you have 10 skill slots and posibility to switch between them out of combat. One handed sword has 50 possible skills in total. You equip one handed sword and equip the most powerfull attack the sword has into first slot, than equip only self heals in the 9 other slots. Or no sword and spells and heals only, or greatsword and 10 skill related only to it. This way, you can create everything. You can create roles such as tank, DPS or healer and at the same time you can be a guy that can get through anything on his own. Those for trinity would get it and those against it would not care about those who want roles. You could find anything in the LFG system at any time. I know this would create some builds that would be very powerful but it could be prevented or taken care of by very precise balance control.

If GW2 had trinity it would be the same as many other games out there. It is good the game goes its own way.

It still amazes me, the game has no trinity (the original one – DPS, tank, healer) and it was going to be always that way. It has been advertised that way and people still goes and buys the game and complain it has no trinity and demands it (yes, some of you demands it). Play the game the way it is or play something else, is it that hard?

The gameplay isn´t broken as a lot of people suggests, it is just different and you do not like it. That doesn´t mean it is bad or good either. It is just that…different, different than you are used to. Deal with it. Like it or not. Play it or not. The choice is yours. Who are you to say that the game would be better for EVERYONE if it had trinity? It would be better for you and for some other people but not for EVERYONE. EVERYTHING is subjective and as soon as people realize it the better. One likes blue color the other red color. Which color is better? Neither and both at the same time. Neither of the gentlemen is better than the other because he likes his color.

And what if the so called, mythical, majority wants it different? Does it mean there can not be games for minorities at all?

It is not your game, the devs decides what will be in it. Thay can listen to you, the do not have to. Accept it, have suggestions, learn to live with the possibility that it will not be implemented and cherish the moments it is considered as an option.

I hope it will not become meta because I have been using my version of rifle + GS build for more than half a year and the fact that not many people runs gs or rifle or both in WWW makes me quiet unique. I like that and I hate meta so kitten much.

I also got myself to level 49 and got myself an ascended rifle so I can put AR into it to play high level fractals without dying at Maw. I spent some time and most of my gold on it. And my effort goes down the drain. It is frustrating to loose it like that. But I would not need any compensation for it as far as they keep my personal reward intact. If after the patch when I star on lvl 30 I still get lvl 49 rewards. That would be enough for me since the cap is still 50. Unfortunatelly I haven´t read anywhere if Anet is just lowering the fotm lvl or the personal reward level as well. So, am I going to have lvl 30 fractals with lvl 30 rewards or lvl 30 fractals with lvl 49 rewards? I would be really upset with the first option but I am cool with the second one.

AntiGw.9367:

Pointy.9308:

The trinity is a remnant of old times, as the technology and creativity goes forward the mechanics should change.

Technically, the trinity is a mainstreamed version of the classic pen and paper rpg system. Which is also more realistic, as a fighter or a mage wouldn’t have time to study both their main profession and healing. You don’t see many soldiers who are also doctors after all.

The trinity has to go for technical reasons, it’s not there because anyone lacks creativity or anything. It simply doesn’t work very well outside of its native format.

What I ment and what I think is that we see more and more creativity in the World and mainly thanks to advancements in technology and overal better quality of life. Thanks to technology we are able to create more things and though there are limits for recreating these in real life, when it comes to computers and what we can generate/simulate with it is incredible. There are no limitation to our imagination and creativity we can express through computers. Movies, games, arts etc. are not necesarily better than before but it certainly helps to have more options. I didn’t say anything about lack of creativity. On the contrary, the trinity system had to be created and it worked for a long time, kudos to that. And if anything than I agree with you. Holy trinity needs to be replaced with something more modern, up to date.

True, I do not see many soldiers that are doctors at the same time but that is partially also because they do not want to be doctors, basic understanding what is healing is enough for them. Which is quiet a shame because it would help them be more versatile. That works for mages as well. They could learn a bit more than just basics and it would not consume that much of their time either. The simple knowledge is enough, they wouldn´t have to be perfect in it, just be able to at least partially substitute a healer in case it is needed.

Holy trinity has no place in modern games. Just look at the way you play. When running AC, at the traps when Detha is repairing them there are waves of enemies that spawns and runs at you. The waves consists of different classes. We always used to focus elementalists first than necros, than the rest. We choose who to fight. Why should the AI we fight go for somebody who it can not kill? The AI should target those that endanger it the most or those that mess with what it should protect or has some kind of relation to. The trinity is a remnant of old times, as the technology and creativity goes forward the mechanics should change.

However, this should create mechanics that does not allow you to zerg the kitten out of everything. And GW2 does not have these. That said, I think Anet is on a good way to change it when you look onto the upcomming patch. I hope that the changes in boss mechanics will be meaningful and that more will follow.

I love warrior´s rifle. I wanted to play rifle war before the game was released and though I was using hammer for some time I got back to using rifle and I just love it. It is great in PVE and good for WvWvW when you are shooting both on and off the walls. In PvP, rifle is not that good, though I play with it in PvP as well. From time to time I try different builds and weapons but I alwas get back to the one I am comfortable with even though it is not something you are very competitive with.

I am using something similar as Stratos uses and I too enjoy it.

My PvP and PvE builds are almost identical. In PvE my secondary is GS, in PvP it is Axe and shield.

So..PvP..

Rifle with sigil of fire for some AoE and extra damage as main.

Axe with quickness and shield with +15% stun duration sigil as secondary.

Zerker amulet and rampager jewel (with my setup the jewel gives me 51% crit chance instead of 49% with full zerker).

Soldier runes.

Endure pain, Sigil of stamina, Shake it off and Mending. Sigil of rage.

Traits: 20/30/0/0/20

Restorative strenght, Axe mastery
Rending strike (or furious reaction), Cracked shot, Furious
Sigil Mastery, Sharpened Axes

Mending because it cleanses 2 conditions.
Shake it off is a stun breaker and thanks to soldier runes it now cleanses 2 conditions as well.
Sigil of stamina gives me better endurance regen which means more dodges and once activated it cleanses all conditions and thanks to sigil mastery it has 36 sec CD intead of 45.
Endure pain because…well endure pain.

Thanks to traits I gain adrenalin faster which means faster Eviscerate.

There is a stun in shield 4 and knockback in rifle 5. The kockback is very usefull and both are capable of interrupting skills.

The rifle is capable of 5-6K damage with voley and the same goes for eviscerate. If timed well and your oponent is not dodging or such you are capable of 10-12K damage in matter of seconds plus capability of interrupting his heal.

I got ton of condi removal, average heal, 2 stun breakers, invurneability.

It is not a super competitive build but I have been using it to some moderate success.

For PvE, WvWvW insert GS traits and Sweat vengeance instead of Axe traits and Furious. And some knight gear instead of full zerker.

Kaaboose.3897:

Pointy.9308:

Oh yeah, where the heck is Tony?

You know, sooner or later every conversation turns out that way.

Yeah, just as Orr was supposedly cleansed as part of the story, but the zone is still teeming with undead. What’s your point?

Well, the Orr is and isn’t cleansed or whatever. For a character that has done the entire story it is but for my lvl 6 guardian it isn’t. But what should be done about it? Change all the areas to state after Zaithans death and put every character that killed him on different server and there use the LS element? What about those who have not completed the story? They wouldn’t get the LS at all? Is there a time table of the LS somewhere? Does it all happen after Zaithan is dead or it is supposed to be like, you know, it can happen anytime? Because that would be my point. Zaithan is dead for certain characters and LS is done for everyone and every character no matter whether
you participate in it or not. No matter what part of the story sou are in right now there is the Molten Alliance threat and you either choose to deal with it or you leave it to others. And it changes both the pre and post story world.

I shouldn’t wrote all the things around. What I wanted to say, and I did say it in the end, yes we need more permanent content, I agree there. But the thing that LS is bad for GW2 isn’t true. What is wrong with new content, stories and characters every 14 days? You can do something new even though you reached lvl80, you are fully geared
up, you are a dungeon master and whatever else. And if you aren’t hardcore player the content will last you for couple days at least. And like I wrote, more permanent content is comming so what is really the problem? That you do not have the permanent content right now? You guys know what patience is? Afterall, GW2 is not even a year old.

Once again. You’re defending new content, not temporary content. This pops up time and time and time again in this thread. I should probably edit the OP to explain the diffrence. As for being able to solve the ORR and LS delemer look here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/How-to-Fix-the-Living-Story-in-Guild-Wars-2/first#post2245623
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmfD9TZI3rE

Well, you didn’t get it but I was deffending temporary content. But whatever. Lets not go that way, I do not wish to argue with you, I want us and the people to get to some middle ground that would work for everyone (read: most of us).

There are three parties (as always). Those in favor, those against it and those who doesn’t give a baby Charr. There is a percentage that represents all three sides. So, first of all we should learn the percentage from all the active players. Not from the forums, redit or youtube but from the game it self. If Anet puts a new interface in the game where you vote for or against certain thing you get better representation of all the people involved because all the people get asked. GW2 sold more than 3 million coppies, there is some percentage of it of the people that are active. Do you thihk all the active people comes to the forums? No. Not even most of them. So an ingame vote that would determine what at least most of the active players think would be better than assume that something is wrong because you or minority of all active palyers think. (this applies to other people and threads as well)

And now, after like month of voting or so, after you get the numbers you can more or less safely say that it is hurting the game or not. Because if more people say it is not wrong for the game even though you say it is, it is not becasue they are the majority. If you want take the forums as a sample please go ahead and count all the people who expressed their opinion in this or ther threads about the LS. See how many are pro and how many are aginst it from their posts. And if you count it, how many people is it? You get to couple of hundred? Well, there is a coulpe of hundred thousand active players so your forum sample is minority anyway.

Well, in the end, such a vote would be useless anyway. Because there are people on more than one side. You either loose one side completely or you satisfy both or most of them.

So again, I agree that we need more permanent content and I agree that temporary content is putting more preassure on SOME people. But I do not think that LS is ruining the game. Afterall, even though you can not go back, you still have new and new things to do every 14 days.

Oh yeah, where the heck is Tony?

You know, sooner or later every conversation turns out that way.

Yeah, just as Orr was supposedly cleansed as part of the story, but the zone is still teeming with undead. What’s your point?

Well, the Orr is and isn’t cleansed or whatever. For a character that has done the entire story it is but for my lvl 6 guardian it isn’t. But what should be done about it? Change all the areas to state after Zaithans death and put every character that killed him on different server and there use the LS element? What about those who have not completed the story? They wouldn’t get the LS at all? Is there a time table of the LS somewhere? Does it all happen after Zaithan is dead or it is supposed to be like, you know, it can happen anytime? Because that would be my point. Zaithan is dead for certain characters and LS is done for everyone and every character no matter whether you participate in it or not. No matter what part of the story sou are in right now there is the Molten Alliance threat and you either choose to deal with it or you leave it to others. And it changes both the pre and post story world.

I shouldn’t wrote all the things around. What I wanted to say, and I did say it in the end, yes we need more permanent content, I agree there. But the thing that LS is bad for GW2 isn’t true. What is wrong with new content, stories and characters every 14 days? You can do something new even though you reached lvl80, you are fully geared up, you are a dungeon master and whatever else. And if you aren’t hardcore player the content will last you for couple days at least. And like I wrote, more permanent content is comming so what is really the problem? That you do not have the permanent content right now? You guys know what patience is? Afterall, GW2 is not even a year old.

Game of Thrones is irrelevant analogy, at least regular episodes are. With GW2 you get all the regulars episodes you can get. LS is more like some 15 minutes webepisodes that are available for 14 days. There is some story that expands the universe but it is not requied for you to watch em to understand the series. And some of the characters gets cast as regulars on the series.

Also..

You can not bring real life analogies into games because the two things are VERY different. There could be such analogies to opose your GoT one.

There is a discount for 10 products in a shop for 14 days. If you buy all 10 you get a free one time only gift. This guy wasn´t in town and wasn´t aware of it. Annother guy is a regular in that shop and in the 14 days he had bought 8 of the 10 products. Now, when the discount is over, the first guy finds out and goes to the shop and demands all of the 10 products to be discounted for him because he wasn´t around. The second guy wants the store to discount him the last 2 of the items because he didn´t have enough money to buy all of the products when discounted. Should the shop make the discounts for these two? Maybe. But they don´t have to because that was the offer, these particular 14 days, these 10 products, this one time free gift. It was advertised, you either put your time and money into it or you don´t. Plus, the store is there after the discount is over and they will offer another discounts and some of the products will be discounted permanently and some discounts will return again in time. And it still is one of the best shops in town.

Or…a lorewise scenario…sort of…

There is a band called ZZ Chars. They want to play in LA for couple days. They advertise that they will be in particular places during particular hours for couple of days. A couple of gigs and if you see at least 8 of the gigs they will give you a gift. The two humans from the first scenario have again the same problem. One is out of town and one doesn´t have money for all of the gigs. And there is this Silvary who can not stay for all of the performances because she has to answer her wild hunt in two days. After 14 days, after ZZ Chars succesfully toured Lions Arch the 3 meet at Crow’s Nest Tavern. And they complain that they couldn´t get the gifts, that they want to see ZZ Chars in LA everytime they want because it is not fair they do not perform every day or on demand. “You know this one song? It is great and I want to see em playing it every day. So lets go to the council to demand they get ZZ Chars back to play in LA for ever” “No.” The council replies “But you know what? There is another band performing in Divinity´s Reach right know. Yeah, that´s right, The Precursors are in Tyria and it´s gonna be legendary!”

So in conclusion, we need more permanent content but LS is not hurting the game. And there will be new permanent content, you just have to wait for it.

There are always two sides to everything.

To satisfy both parties you need to create both permanent and regular/temporary content as well. I´d say that permanent content should be larger and is more dificult to create and balance because it stays in the game till the dawn of servers. It needs more focus and testing than living story. In the future, there will be more permanent content (there already is some, like fractals and other things that stays behind after the particular LS arc is gone) and players are actually given diverse content every 14 days to keep them busy till the permanent content arrives.

So what is the problem? Ohh, here it is…I WANT EVERYTHING AND I WANT IT NOW FOR KITTENS SAKE AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!! I WANT ALL THE SKINS AND ALL THE ACHIEVEMENTS AND I WANT TO GRIND THE ONE SAME THING EVERY DAY OVER AND OVER AGAIN AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

That is the problem, isn´t it? That people in their nature want everything even though they do not need it for as little effort as possible.

I know that one of the reasons behind having permanent content is to be able to repeat it or get to it when you want but some things are not ment to be permant and/or are not ment to be for everyone.

Living story is an interesting idea and it keeps the game fresh. Yes, we need more permanent content but it can not be everything. Molten dungeon was great and I would love to replay it but it was destroyed as part of the story. Perhaps it will return as some other facility in different area as a regular dungeon with new bosses and mechanics.

Reading through the thread I had an idea…

Perhaps there could be something like the Super adventure box. Something like Asuran holographic simulation device that would let you play the LS dungeons again or in explorable mode. These wouldn´t have to be accurate in design because (lorewise) the holographic version would be based on the experience of the “travellers/adventurers” who went inside and survived. These would be often different and exagerated stories. The holographic boxes could be stationed in every main city except for Lions Arch so you would get people there. The dungeons would be added to the boxes 1-2 months after the particular LS arc is over because it takes tome for the Asuras to create the simulation. In there you would come across the same/altered/completely different versions of the bosses because, again, the simulation is based on the stories. There could be visible edges of the holograms and projectors to add to the simulation fealing. Rewards would have to be more expensive, for example, you need 1 RNG ticket for a weapon skin during regular LS. When the particular dungeon is uploaded to the holographic box you would need 2 RNG tickets for 1 skin etc. There could be Asuras near the boxes, acting like street performers or people from circus. “Come closer and be amazed. Experience the heroic actions that led to the defeat of the molten aliance yourself. Bring down the sky pirates and crush the crazed kharkas!” Perhaps it could be the Inquest with some sinister plan behind it.

Also..

Gnat.9405:

How about adding a new hero slot in the panel for an item that is exclusively +MF% that you can upgrade similar to ascension through MF.

starts at 3%, add doubloons or mats or something to it to upgrade %

Or something like this, yes. As far as the upgrades are expensive enough. Or as far as they get more expensive with MF being increased. Like, upgrades from 0-15% it takes t1 mat, from 15-30% you nee t2 mat and so on. Possible a Mystic Forge recipe where you need the item, t1 – t6 mat, maybe the (increasing amount of) daily coins and some dust perhaps (or wine).

But than again, this would create the problem what to do with current MF equipment and how to compensate the players who bought it for gold/gems/real money.

PvE only, hostile NPCs only – condition toughness (tenacity/resiliance) and cc toughness. No defiance on bosses.

A condition ticks for 100 (as an example) points on average mob. On some mobs the condi toughness could be lowered so it actually ticks for 150 points and for some it could be increased so it ticks for 90 points. At the same time, some (not all) mobs get toughness increase. A condi build would get those faster and DPS would have a harder time. But when DPS gets into party with a CC build they could together overcome this ineffectiveness. The same goes the other way around. Even though the condition doesn´t do the high damage to the mob with increased condi toughness a cc buid could stun/daze/root the mob and let the conditions do the work. You could also create something like CC toughness where skill effects like stun have different durrations. This would lead to creation of new hybrid builds and even COF p1 wouldn’t be zergfest anymore. This would promote more teamplay and partying different builds. And since everyone can do bit of everything, as Anet promotes, you can actually get through the game without a party as well. Some content/mobs would be more challenging than the others. This would need some extensive balancing especially in dungeons though.

Warrior longbow in PvE would be actually good. Also, mesmer’s field that gives you quickness could increse the speed condition ticks by. Hence supporting other players. Guardian rushes in, creates a field the mobs would get stucked in (couldn’t cross the border). Warrior shoots his F1 longbow fire field and mesmer created quickness, no dps is needed. Or the dps guy can finish the mobs that survives.

Do not nerf warrior as it wouldn’t solve the problem. Change the way condition and CC is perceived.

Webba.3071:

Pointy.9308:

Does noone see the irony in sharing/averaging MF among the party? The OP stated that MFer are statisticaly weaker becasue they take MF for personal gain rather than taking combat suitable stats, which is true. And at the same time he (and others) stated that they don´t want to run with these people because they handicap themselves and that the entire party have to work up the loss. That creates biases against MFers. When you introduce sharing/averaging MF system the tables will turn and MF will start posting that they do not want to run with noneMFers because they lower MF for them.

The reason this is not a problem is because, essentially, parties fight together but they do not loot together. Every character stat except mf has at least some benefit to other members of the party, which is the problem that averaging it across a party would attempt to fix. The situation you envisage would be very unlikely to materialize because a)running full zerker is the meta way to do dungeons, if mf wasn’t a significant kitten of character power this would not be the case, b)mf heavy players who refuse to group up with others would be faced with either trying to solo the dungeon or grouping up with other mf heavy players and then wiping because they have compromised too much fighting ability. Both these factors should prevent the problem of mf becoming the new elite stat.

And here we are again. Yes Mf users are more likely to die because they do not have the relevant combat stats but that doesn´t mean they will. Because skill is also needed apart from stats. A dungeon would take longer for a party of 5 MFers but there does not have to be a single death. There are harder and easier dungeons and yes, high level dredge fractal would be a pain for 5 MFers but not impossible. Skill and experience is needed as well.

There is plenty of MFers so no one would be looking too long for a party. Plus, a MFer can switch to some other gear for the tougher fights if he/she has one. Like, for the imbued shaman. And since most encounters in dungeons are trash mobs (there is a lot of people arguing “to skip or not to skip” or “play it the way it was supposed to be played”) the stats loss is not such a pain as people tend to say it is. For normal encounters you do not need all the combat stats nor skill, the problem comes with bosses. There, I agree, an unskilled MFer will drag the party down. But than again an uskilled meta zerker will be a burden as well, especially if he can´t dodge.

I agree that MF needs to be changed, I just disagree with the sharing/averaging solution. It is the same as the (un)holy trinity in this game. There is none (and that is good from my point of view). You are responsible for your own life, damage, tanking ability etc. You are unique asset to the party (world) so you should be responsible for your own MF as well.

Sharing/averaging MF is a sollution yes but sloppy one if you ask me. It is more like putting a carpet over a hole rather than filling it with…whatever you fill holes with…

In party you work together and yes, when it comes to stats MFer isn´t doing as much as others but he is stil contributing and it is not a stat only thing. MF guarian gives you aegis and protection either way, MF thief will still cloak you with shadow refuge the same way as always. MF ranger will still criple all of the mobs with his longbow and his pet will revive you when you are downed. I do not run MF but my elite banner prevented wipe many time when all 4 of my party members got downed in the same place. This is what matters too.

Does noone see the irony in sharing/averaging MF among the party? The OP stated that MFer are statisticaly weaker becasue they take MF for personal gain rather than taking combat suitable stats, which is true. And at the same time he (and others) stated that they don´t want to run with these people because they handicap themselves and that the entire party have to work up the loss. That creates biases against MFers. When you introduce sharing/averaging MF system the tables will turn and MF will start posting that they do not want to run with noneMFers because they lower MF for them.

I still believe that everyone should be responsible for his/her own MF. Such person shouldn´t drag the party down because of weaker combat stats but it also should be something that not everyone has (not for free anyway). MF should be traded in for something. Like gold or skill points as suggested. Either as permanent or temporary buff. And in case of permanent buff it should be expensive, like 1% for 5 skill points as suggested (per character).

And yes, I know, this creates the problem what to do with the current MF equipment and the users and how to compensate them.

This actually gave me an idea…

Runes, sigils, food, buffs, banners stays in the game.
New MF system is introduced where you buy MF for skill points for your character, up to 100% (can be adjusted) 1% for 5 skill points (can be adjusted).
New buff would have higher % than MF equipment stats gives you.
MF equipment stays in the game for next 6 months (a deadline is given when it is going to be removed, can be adjusted)
This would be enough time for most MFers to get skill points for new MF to get it as high as MF they have now with MF equipment. Plus from than on they could get even higher MF.
The new buff would stack with current MF till it is removed. Therefore it would be a bit of compensation for MF users as they would get higher MF than others. Those with enough skill points would get instant, up to 100% buff.
In 6 months the equipment is either automatically changed for some other stat combo or the player would be able to choose new stats for limited pieces per character. Stacking MF equipment would not be profitable.

The change would not be immediate but solved in half a year or so. I am not programer or a developer but introducing this new system would not be that difficult. Put MF tab in hero panel where you can buy MF buff. This is basically just “add x% of MF to y% you already have and take away 5 skill points”. But again, I am not a programer or a developer. Lets say Anet puts this new buff in patch 2 months from now than they would have 6 months to figgure the details of the second phase (equipment trade) of the process.

You could rant about MFers for those couple of months before the change but you would know that they are going to get nerfed and after that everyone would run full combat specs. Plus you could get your own MF buff that does not affect your combat abilities. So it would ease the pain.

roamzero.9486:

The best MF fix:

Allow players to purchase a permanent MF buff with skill points (1-5SP per 1% permanent boost), and lower the cap on max % magic find to 150-200%. Unaffected by this cap: food/boosts/infusions.

For those that spent a ton on ascended MF gear, new recipes would be introduced to the Mystic Forge to transmute ascended gear with MF to ascended gear with other stat combos (i.e. . Yakkington’s Ring + 5ectos + 10powerful bloods = Ring of Red Death)

There, MF fixed.

I like this. Especially the recipies. Though the recipies would have to be free and limited for ceratin amount per character so people wouldn´t star stacking MF gear after announcement.

Dand.8231:

Anyone who thinks that MF does not hurt the group for selfish gains, is most likely lying, and probably hopes the system goes unchecked so they can continue to leech.

Power, Prec, Tough, Vit… all other stats help the party in some way.
-Power/Condi/Prec add more DPS, meaning mobs die faster.
-Tough/Vit extend your own survival, less time your party needs to spend picking you up and less danger they have to put themselves in to do so
-Healing/Boon+ is obvious

Magic find leeches one of these stats and instead gives you bonus loot. So now you’re down roughly 1000 power. Thats a big chunk of missing DPS that the rest of the party must pick up the slack for. Or 1000 toughness, now you’re going to get KO’d easy, and someone will have to spend time and take a risk to help you.

“But I’m so good that I do better in MF than most players without it!”
First of all BS. No you’re not. Get over it.
Secondly, even if that were true, you’re still performing less than your best. However good you are doing in MF gear, you could be doing even better with non-MF gear. You are underperforming, willfully, for personal gain.

We didn´t want to go down the selfish path again so please keep it suggestions only.

Mist Y.5214:

The idea of removing magic find and compensating people is… not good. What if I own some magic find runes but my armour has proper stats? What if only half my gear is magic find? What about all the magic find food? And what if I already have a knight’s set AND a magic find set?
Magic find is here to stay – it just needs a fix. Making it a visible buff that affects your entire party is perfect.

Well, I wrote that MF runes and sigils can stay in the game just the post before yours. Banners created by guilds, food and MF boosters can stay too. If just half of your gear is MF than half of your gera gets changed. I wrote the entire sets but I ment even single pieces. The MF booster and BLSK would be the compensation. And like I wrote the only problem about it would be the people that runs two sets, there would be some other compensation as well. MF stays yes but sharing it with your party is not a good fix.

I wrote most of it before you posted your questions.

Ohh, and I forgot…MF runes and sigils could stay in the game.

I wrote couple of lines about how it could be done and than I had an idea to combine those ideas. MF gear would automaticaly change to knight armor becasue it shares power and prec as minors therefore there would be no change in damage whatsoever and the person would get free toughness as mayor. You would also get in your mail free MF booster and free black lion salvage kit. Those who uses MF equip only gets new set, free boost and free BLSK. Those who run other spec and MF equip would get this as well. They could sell it or use the BLSK to get ectos out of it. The first group would not mind because they get piece for piece. The progblem is the second group as they do not need another “regular” set and by selling it or salvaging it they would loose the free BLSK. Also this kit would have to be able to salvage ascended quipment, perhaps with a chance to get mist essence. Fractal capacitator is special case as it costs 2x 250 ectos to get it upgraded but than you do not need to get it upgraded with ectos to get the slot for MF find. So simple change to knight stats should be enough. Also, one BLSK should be enough as most people uses just one character with full MF. Number of MF boosters could vary. Perhaps there could be another bonus for those with two sets. And this would not get abused since the game has a way to recognise different equip. You scan a character see he has 1 set of zerker in inventory and 1 set of MF on him, or the other way around. Also stacking MF gear after announcment for free booster and BLSK would not be profitable since you do not need two sets for one character and the game/code would recognise it. So I think that there is only one problem – how to compensate those with two sets. Also if someone runs more than one character with MF he could get more BLSKs and boosters.
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I think that inspect feature could work when proper LFG system is introduced. In LFG people could state that they are looking for fast runs zerkers only. A guy joins their group, they check his armor he has currently equiped and then proceed to kick him or go to the dungeon with him. While in dungeon, if something feels odd they can inspect this guy while he is in combat because at this point he can´t change his equipment. Unless such a specific LFG is set up a guy can wear whatever gear he chooses to. And this would work even with the MF in current state. Just say you do not want MF in party and than in dungeon in combat check his gear again. Check it randomly throughout the dungeon. Did he switch his gear while fighting the last boss? Kick him and he will remember it. Inspect could be brought in with LFG system.

Thanks, I appreciate when someone appreciates me.

See, what I had on my mind was…a guy finds something and he decidess to sell it for 10G and another guy finds the same thing and decidess to sell it for 9G and so on. In the end from that 10G it drops down to 50 silver and sudenly it is afordable. And MF users helps with this alot. Without them and farmers the prices would be insane. That is what I mean by MF is helping others.

Yes you can still do dungeons in MF because you’re skilled. That’s great! But if you were not getting the ‘benifit’ of increased loot for wearing the sub par MF gear would you still be wearing it? Let’s say hypotheticly MF didn’t exist in the game. Would you come to dungeon in sub bar gear (Say blues) just to show off that you could do it?

Some would because they are show offs and therefore kittens and some would do it because it is challenging. But most of the people wouldn´t bring sub-par equipment because it is nonsense to limit yourself. Yet if you think about it, MF equipment isn´t sub-par. Combat wise yes but MF is a stat like power or vitality therefore it is more effective in a way other stats are not. And again, not for combat, I know that.

There is a lot of killing in this game but there is also drop and the posibility to sell and trade and MF helps with it so it is valid stat for the game or at least for this part of the game.

I just don’t understand how you can believe players that don’t want to run with MF players are selfish.

I didn´t say that they are selfish (Although there can be some discussion about this but lets not go there). I said that they are hypocrites because they are selfish in other aspect of the game but they do not think they are hence my question about selling a rare sword for 3 silver instead for 25 to help other people get what they want/need without you profiting on it. And there are other examples.

I watched your video yesterday evening. I didn´t have time and I was about to go for my daily dose of pool practice but I remembered I wanted to watch it so I did before I left. And there was something rather interesting in it. You say that you do not mind MF being in the game yet you do not want to run with its users in dungeon because they handicap themselves combat wise for profit and that they are working against the group, that everybody has to overcome the handicap. And you proceed to talk about some sugestions people have and so on. There you actually say that sharing MF would null the issues you have with MF. Which is interesting. You wouldn´t mind running a dungeon if MF was shared? Even though the person would be exactly the same? Stat and skill wise MF user is the same and he is still handicaping the party yet you would excuse this for the possible profit for you and the party. You do not mind the handicap as far as you profit on it?

We shouldn´t really get into this discussion about selfishness. this is suggestion forum and I should have posted some so I would like to expand the idea I read in the other MF tread.You would get MF as a buff and it would be the same percentage of you world completition which would fit explorer, traveler. Yet MF should be traded in for something. So you could actually buy it for gold straight from your hero panel. 1% of MF for 1s. So upto 100% for 1G. It would be buff for one hour. And you could actually choose the percentage the same way you select how many items you want to craft. So you could get 50% even when you have 95% of completion. I am not against changing MF, I just don´t like it to be shared and one of the reasons for it is that everybody should be responsible for their own MF. And boosters and food would work the same way as now ofcourse.

There was no need to write it again because I already said I agree with you that MF doesn´t benefit the party. It was in my first post. I disagreed with you in the part where you wanted to share it with the party. There is plenty of good solutions to this, my favorite being the one where MF is a buff you get from world completion. Your percentage of world completion = you MF buff. This would actually fit the terms explorer and traveler. The more you have explored the better chance you get to gain items. But than again MF should be something you trade it in for something else.

In here I only compared MF to zerker and not to other armor because these two share power and prec and both have no condition or other stat like rampager.

I wrote this in the other tread…
MF users are not inheritly selfish. Not all of em. They didn´t decide that they are going to leech of you. They decide that they are going to play as well as possible in gear they chosed to play with because the gear fits their sub-goals. (The main goal is to finish the dungeon)

What is your goal in dungeon? To finish it and get the chest reward, exp and tokens? Than MF user is not going against you, he is actually helping you to achieve this because it is his goal as well.

Or is your goal to finish the dungeon as fast as possible? If so than you should state it in LFG and at that moment if MF users joins your group and lies about his stats he is selfish. But not any sooner. And in this case a vit/tough guy is selfish as well even though he has the same amount of viable stats as you.

“I’m a great player so I can run in sub par MF gear that makes me less of an asset to the the team so I deserve better rewards.”

“I don’t know these people so it’s okay for me to limit my performance to benfit myself. What they don’t know won’t hurt them”

This is so wrong…you realy think that 100% of all MF users are like this? I would say that absolute minimum of them are. And yes these people are selfish but you can not judged all of them the same way. That is being biased.

You should see it from other points of view as well. A performance in dungeon can not be judged only by stats. Statisticaly yes, he is weaker yet he could be the best player you have ever seen. That of course doesn´t justify MF gear and I am not sayin it does. It is just that Performance=stats+skill where skill=stats or even skill>stats.

I saw the image while reading through the previous MF tread and you are right about it. But I didn´t want it to go there, I just wanted an answer to my question about you being selfish as well because, again, I actually agreed with you to some extent in your opinion.

So to sumarise my point of view.
MF is not a combat stat.
MF doesn´t help the party.
MF does help peolpe and not only the ones who wears it.
MF users are not inheritly selfish.
MF users can outperform those with more viable stats though statisticaly are weaker.
MF buff could be improved and/or changed.
MF doesn´t give you better drops, it just gives you chance to get them.
Everyone has his goals and MF helps to achieve these goals.
People claiming that MF users are selfish are hypocrites for they are selfish as well.
Same thing applies to those in PvP yeling at people for not going 1v1 yet they themselves goes 2 or more V 1 with no regrets.
Skill>stats
I do not mind people wearing MF stats as far as they are not burden to the party. And at that point it is not because of their stats.

I have yet to see your video for I did not have the time to watch it yesterday. I intend to do so this afternoon. Im getting new monitor this afternoon as well so it should be in bright colours. My old one is soon to get to the Silicon Heaven.

If you actually did look up what strawman means then how can you, in all honesty, claim that you have not done just that with this arguement.

I never claimed that my next argument would not be strawman. I said my previous wasn´t or at least wasn´t on purpose.

You are saying that MF is fine in groups becuase all players are selfish in some reguard. Do I really need to explain more on why this is no basis for an arguement?

I am prety sure I never said that. I said that you are hypocrite.

And saying that a player getting more loot for himself benifits the group because that will make items more avalible on the trading post?
Try looking up supply and demand or inflation this time.

I am prety sure I never said that either. I said in my first post here that MF and the drops a guy gets doesn`t benefit the group yet it benefits everyone. And I add “In long run” in my second post. And by everyone I mean those who buy on TP.

Why do you twist my words and keep insisting that I said something I didn´t?
And why are you still ignoring my question? Even though the answer is obeviously 0, right?

I’ve gone over all of these points already except for your final two. And seeing as that is just you trying to strawman this thread I’m just going to ignore it. :P

I had to google what “to strawman” means and after reading about it I have to say I didn´t do that. I certainly didn´t do it on purpose. It looks like you didn´t want to answer my question and decide to strawman me instead by saying I am strawmaning.

See I didn´t argue with you about MF, I actually said that I understand your point of view and that you are right to certain extent. I merely expressed that I do not like it to be shared among the party and than I pointed out that it actually benefits everyone in a long run. I just expressed my opinion.

Than I pointed out that you choose to be selfish in other areas where you think it is OK. You are selfish but that is OK, someone else is selfish so he is a kitten (I actually wrote “kitten”). And than you ignored me because you didn´t want to answer. My last question have nothing to do with MF and its sharing, it was a question to test your selfishness and hypocrisy and you proved me right by ignoring it.

First of all…
Same discussion
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Magic-Find-What-I-don-t-like/page/1

Second of all…
I do not use MF gear, never have.

Now..
Sharing a MF among the party is bad idea. I see the point you make when you say that other stats benefits the party even though they are not shared. But please realize that apart from MF the player also have other stats like power and vitality etc.

Lets compare the two closest gears. Zerker and explorer. For it to be easier I will use just stats from chest piece.

Zerker Power 101 Prec 72 Crit 5 MF 0
Explorer Power 72 Prec 72 Crit 0 MF 3

Now see that zerker is just x percent more effective in combat than explorer and yet you want the explorer to share 100% of his stat. If you want MF to be shared, and again that is terrible idea, than you would have to calculate the percentage of gear stats effectiveness of player A to player B and than add the percentage of MF to player without it. So, for example, of 100% of MF you would get 20%. The MF guy would have his 100% of course.

Also…
People are saying that FM guy gets better drops. That is incorrect statement. He just have better chance to get the same drops as you. All the players have the same loot tables. He doesn´t get better drops than you, he just gets them more often.

Also..
MF stats doesn´t benefit the party but it does benefit you. In fact, it benefits everyone. See the more drops he gets the cheaper the TP prices will be. The more rares he gets the more ectos he can salvage the cheaper the prices will be if he sells it. Be glad there are people with MF if you need ectos or anything for that matter. Without them and farmers the prices would be insane due to selfish nature of people to sell things as expensive as possible.

The last sentense makes me think. Have you OP or anyone arguing about MF leacher being selfish, sold something cheaper for actually small to no profit? Like some rare sword sold for 3 silver instead of 25 silver others are seling it for? If not, you are selfish and you want profit rather than helping others. Hypocrites. You argue that MF is selfish yet you are selfish in other areas which in your own mindset is OK. (Giving or selling to your frinds and guildies does not count)

Saw Charr engineer “The Charrgyver” that made me laugh

1. MF users are so skilled, they make up for any loss of capability.
2. MF users are all more skilled than non-MFusers.

Not necesarilly. Not all, not everone. Not inheritly. No.

A skilled zerker is better in combat than skilled explorer because of stats. A skilled explorer is better in combat than average zerker because of skill.

3. MF gearsets are just as good as any non-MF gear set.

Yes. See, MF is a stat, not for combat but a stat nontheless. Therefore it is effective in a way zerker is not.

It depends on what goal you are pursuing.
-If the goal is to finish a dungeon and get the end reward than consider that they are achieving the same thing as non MF users with less effective stats. They are capable of doing the same thing with less.
-If the goal is to kite a mob while others does something else than zerker is as useful as explorer.
-If the goal is to kill a mob/boss as fast as possible than yes, they are less efficient.
-If the goal is to finish the dungeon as fast as possible than yes they are slowing you down a bit. But since the AS FAST AS POSSIBLE directly corresposnds with damage only, A guy with toughness/vitality is slowing you down as well. And when a zerker goes down because of his low deffense he is slowing the party too. That is why is skill more important than stats and effectiveness in party CAN NOT be measured only by stats. You need both but Skill is more than stats. Also, in this AS FAST AS POSSIBLE scenario an explorer is more stats efficient towards the goal than vit/tough build.

Since a goal to complete a dungeon requires multiple sub-goals one set of gear is not necesarilly better than the other. Also people run dungeons for their own goals and these goals becomes sub-goals of the one goal that all are after – to finish a dungeon.

Five explorers will most likely finish the dungeon slowly than five zerkers and zerkers have lesser chance of dying because they kill mobs faster but noone says the explorers are going to die because it is just a chance not something that is stated. Also the zerkers could all wipe 10 times and decide to quit the run. You never know.

I agree that MF gear has less combat effectiveness but overall PERFORMANCE CAN NOT BE JUDGED ONLY BY STATS.

MF users are not inheritly selfish. Not all of em. They didn´t decide that they are going to leech of you. They decide that they are going to play as well as possible in gear they chosed to play with because the gear fits their sub-goals.

If you want to just finish a dungeon noone is leaching of you.
If you want a speed run than you have to state it and at that point if it is written somewhere and MF guy joins you and lie about his gear than yes, he is selfish because he decided he wants to leach of you. BUT not in regular casual party they are not. Also in such case different stats users are selfishly leaching from you as well.

MF gear was not created with the purpose of leaching from other people. People AKA humans make selfish decisions. Just wearing the gear doesn´t make you selfish. The gear helps you to complete your sub-goal within the game. If you choose zerker gear than your goal is damage in trade of other stats. A drop/loot is a goal as well as is your damage output.

In the end, the ultimate goal is to ENJOY the game. YOU choose the way how such a goal is achieved for YOURSELF.

Gear shouldn´t matter. And if you are encouraging people not to take MF geared guy with you than you are discriminating this player, his/her style therefore you are discriminating him/her as a unique person that he/she is not only in game.

No you got it all wrong. The MF geared guy had a perfect choice NOT to use MF gear so as not to slow down the group and gain increased benefits for offering less to the party. While it’s true that a full MF gear player might offer more than others, that still doesn’t excuse him the least bit for choosing the selfish gear over more useful gear.

YES indeed he has the CHOICE to use other gear than MF. The CHOICE. Im simply trying to say that even in party we should be unique. There are choices in stats to suit different people and their needs/wants. And MF guy is not necesarily slowing down anyone as we agreed on. So why should all the MF guys be discriminated if they can get the job done equally or even better than players with other stats? Please see that the point of my statement is that MF is a choice as much as is taking power and that having MF doesn´t necesarily slow down the party. Im not saying it is not selfish, it is but people should be recognized for their actions rather than the loot they CAN get and/or the stats they use. If a guy is able to save the party from wiping and complete the dungeon than why not to let him have his MF? Didn´t he prove that he is beneficial to the party?

See, the goal is to complete the dungeon with as least deaths as possible and get the rewards. Why should it matter what gear you use for it? You accomplish this goal and you are saying that it is not good enaugh because it wasn´t according to what you wanted. This guy doesn´t play the way I want him/her to play the game he/she has to go. Thats a BS mister Han man.

You got it all wrong again. The one that is causing the trouble is the MF user, he is the one that made the choice to use selfish gear. He is the one that doesn’t allow the others to play the way they want, why can’t you see it the other way too?

How come it is the MF guys who causes the trouble? He doesn´t kitten about zerkers or val/knight guys who doesn´t have damage. He doesn´t ask others to link their gear. He plays with what he has and don´t mind if others have different stats. He is in the party, he kills mobs, heals you so where is the problem? …Actually, most people doesn´t care what stats people use so I do not know why are we arguing about it.

I woud take a rare geared MF guy who knows how to play anytime over a guy with full exotic set of whatever, who is just an ancor for the party.

That’s the true elitist, descriminating players over what kind of skill they have. I thought we don’t want elitisism?

It is just a statement I made because of an arguments in the topic. To show that there is more to a player than just stats. As I do not care what stats or gear they use.

And that is the point – Players do need stats but stats are not more than skill of the player. Also not everyone needs the same stats as everyone else to suit his playstyle. If it was the other way around than the game would have one class one weapon one set of stats and we all would have the same build.

XYZ is not a problem. The people creates the problem by saying they do not like it. At which point somebody tries to defend XYZ. BAM people arguing and not doing anything. Not everyone of course.

Am I the only one who thinks Mirta is right from the star? Well, in most of the things at least. The IQ example isn´t good so aren´t some other things.

Mirta makes some valid points and you shoot him/her (??) down saying its nonsense. You all have some valid points, you just fail to come up with a compromise and actually make a progress and solve the issue.

We all have an opinion and the opinion in subjective and selfish because it is based on our own experience and our own perceiving of the world.

We have our own playstyles and we all have equal right to choose/find this style.

MF gear does not benefit the party that is true. BUT gear itself doesn´t make you a better player. Who says that the guy isn´t beneficial to the party. If he stays alive, heal others, deal damage, revive, etc. than he is usefull much more than zerkers that go down much faster, or thieves and elementalists. Im not saying that either of these classes are worse or better than the rest of em. It is a choice of the player. And it is YOU not the gear that makes you good at the game and/or anything else.

Gear shouldn´t matter. And if you are encouraging people not to take MF geared guy with you than you are discriminating this player, his/her style therefore you are discriminating him/her as a unique person that he/she is not only in game.

See, the goal is to complete the dungeon with as least deaths as possible and get the rewards. Why should it matter what gear you use for it? You accomplish this goal and you are saying that it is not good enaugh because it wasn´t according to what you wanted. This guy doesn´t play the way I want him/her to play the game he/she has to go. Thats a BS mister Han man.

You shouldn´t be averaging MF into the party. If so than you should average all other stats as well. How does one person benefit from other person´s vitality or toughness or any other stat? THEY DON´T. Because the warrior in my party has 28k of vitality doesn´t help me a bit nor does it helps any othe party member, it helps him to survive more, not anyone else. If I run out of endurance and I don´t have any blocks and the boss decides to use his skill on me that takes me down with my 20k of HP your vitality is useless to me. And if he/she has so many HP than he/she sacrifices damage for it. It´s something for something. And btw, how does it sound that from the 28k of HP you are used to you now have 20k thanks to averaging?

I woud take a rare geared MF guy who knows how to play anytime over a guy with full exotic set of whatever, who is just an ancor for the party.

Should MF be changed? Maybe, maybe not. I don´t use it. Would I like to have MF in case it becomes a free bonus to my stats not sacrificing anything? Hell yeah!

The whole time you are arguing that stats are more important than player. It is not true…Player>stats

And of course, as always, nothing is 100%. The examples shown in my post doesn´t apply to everything. It is just an opinion. And you shouldn´t really apply such statements into real life as life is much more complex than a game.