Showing Posts For Saereth.8306:
If you are dying a lot to HS spam it is a L2P issue on your part. I dont think what people are so mad about is that HS is OP, because it really isnt, its that Thiefs really only need 2 buttons to be competitive.
That’s the real root of the problem. If you’re fighting a hs thief and you mess up, you’re dead. If they mess up, it’s easily recoverable. It’s a low skill high reward system that really creates an inequality with other classes that have a much higher skil cap for the same returns.
actually, good players can use downed states to their advantage. keep someone downed and out of the fight by denying respawn or controlling the moment of death until a respawn window passes has great advantages for good players as well.
It would be nice if instead of an ultimate we could just slot another utility spell. As an elementalist, and I’m sure this may apply to other classes, there are times I’d much prefer to pack another one of my useful utility skills.
And you’ll find something else to cry about. Just saying, if you’re going to attribute your losses to a skill with a 4 minute cool down this might not be the game for you…
Getting mighty defensive there. But on that note, I’ll take a similar skill with a 4min cooldown over -ANY- ultimate elementalists currently have.
You’re wildly exaggerating what has been said here, no one said that skill is the only reason they lose, but when it is off CD, it’s WAY too effective. Shorter duration, shorter cooldown would be a great compromise imo.
downed state adds a new element to organized pvp that is pretty nice, I’d hate to see it go, although some of the downed state abilities could definitely use a review, they dont need to be as annoying as they are. Nothing sucks like blowing every CD/spending all your endurance to down a warrior only to have him get back up and hit you with HB to the face when all your abilities are already on cooldown from the first fight. At least if he got revived it was your own fault for letting it happen.
It really sucks for elementalist where your defensive abilities such as increased toughness are tied to an attunement and you can’t swap attunements while a moa either, so there you sit, a defenseless meatsack with the lowest defense/hp of any class and no down state interupt, free kill/gg, every time.
actually as an ele you pretty much need to build to counter it already, and even then will still die often. As an example, I often run a soldier’s amulet 30 earth/20 water/30 arcana build made for max toughness/health with S/D. At 18.5k health and 2800 armor I was still bursted in under 10 seconds after popping all defensives and yes, dodging with evasive arcana and improved endurance regen.
Got it on video as well. If you dont build to counter and go glass cannon or something then you’re just a free stomp for them, especially with no down state interrupt.
Eles could use a buff perhaps, but I’d honestly rather see other classes fall in line with them on the topic of time to kill. Eles have comparable damage to some other classes, no where near as bursty as thieves, while having both light armor and the smallest health pool in the game. It’s a bad scenario.
Doesn’t mean an Ele cant be viable and win some, and the best elmentalists out there can make a great showing, but overall, it’s a tough spot for them right now.
personally I’d like to see the option of 8v8 tourneys as well as 5v5 hotjoins
personally I have no issue with pve damage, I slap on my magic find gear, eat some food and gather up entire groups of enemies in orr/ds to AOE down to farm, events are even faster farm. I completed all story aspects and every dungeon I’ve run with no more issue than any other class, and in some cases less.
I’ve had several thieves from my guild call me in to assist them on things were there were 10+ enemies because they just couldnt handle the AOEs going down in time.
PVP is an entirely different story; great inWvW, great in hotjoin where people arekitten but come tPVP, life is hell for the elementalist. So in that regard, yes, balancing need to be discussed. I really dont see a balance issue in PVE however, most of those complaints are just l2p issues.
the thief is NOT one of the most easiest classes to grasp. Sorry. And No I will quantify my statement since you didn’t bother either.
My first 80 was an elementalist. Here I am swapping through attuenments.. Trying to keep track of which is on cd and which is not. I need some extra condition removal and healing, water. I need high damage, get into fire. Oh no that melee is to close to me.. I need some control and protection, earth. etc etc etc. Regardless of weapon and spec you are in a constant state of juggling all this stuff around.
Enter the thief…
So last night I feel like making a thief. I go through the tutorial/story area. I hit level 2 and immediately go to spvp. I throw together a dagger/pistol with pistol/pistol spec. I don’t touch a target dummy and go immediately into spvp.
Put on some poison, pop and assassin signet. Spam HS and watch crap die. Start getting hurt and throw down a stealth field. Watch my teammates take them down a notch.. come out of the stealth field and spam HS and watch crap die. Get into a few situations that require ranged, spam unload and watch crap die.
So I have been playing an elementalist since release.. Spvp, wvw, pve.. dungeons.. Trying out every weapon, every spec possible.
First time using a thief… get the highest score I have ever gotten in spvp, first place overall, lots of kills, a single death..
How do you think I feel about my Elementalist now?
This is the exact same experience I’ve had. I actually had a guild member whining how under powered his thief was, so I shelved my elementalist and ran a thief for a few tourney’s, I went from being mid place each match as my elementalist, (which I played extensively in beta, over 70 tournaments since life, lots of wvw and level 80 pve with 80% completion)… to being top score in every game as a thief having only played a thief once before in beta.
I’m not a so arrogant to think I know it all, but I really feel this is not an l2p situation, and I’d gladly provide vids that I record daily to review my performance to anyone that wishes to critique to reinforce that point. Switching to the thief I just completely facerolled with FAR less actual skill required.
And dodging btw, is marvelous in theory, until you’re immobilized or stunned with your 75 second stun breaker on cooldown. How about when a thief comes at you, so you dodge as you’ve been told to do, you roll back, hit some defensives, they stealth and pop on you again, you dodge again, now you’re out of stamina, NOW they hit their immobilize for 4 seconds, flip behind you and backstab away then finish with HS and as a FULL vit/toughness spec elementalist you are dead or near it before the immobilize even ends.
Unsurvivable burst from ANY class when you are built as tanky as you possibly can be, and giving up damage to be so, is simply not fun.
(edited by Saereth.8306)
Personally I’d just like to be able to 8v8 with my guild, whether that be a specialized 8v8 tourney mode or allowing us to que/hotjoin against other premades.
would be really nice to have a guild que, so we can do 8v8 matches with our guild, even if it is premade vs premade only. This is GUILD wars afterall isnt it? 0.o
in pve we’re definitely not under powered, I completed that mission 10/0/20/10/30 S/D with little trouble. Use your combo fields, time your ccs and heals, kite while your skills come off cooldown, takes some practice but Iv’e never had a problem in PVE like what you’re describing. Also make sure you’ve got appropriate level gear with decent itemization of course.
go and watch izkimar play (google if the following link won’t post)
http://www.twitch.tv/izkimargw2
and then stop talking about bad survivability.
Real problem is that 30 arcane is mandatory, much due to high cd of the elements themselves.
I just spent about an hour and a half watching recaps. He runs alot of staff support, with a very coordinated team and he’s a great player. That aside, when he actually gets attacked, he dies very often. HE had a nice 1v1 with a sword and board warrior who obviously was clueless, but besides that… nope.
Twice he goes for different mesmers and dies or blows all cds and runs for help. Anytime a HS thief goes on him he dies or blows all cds and runs, when he 1v1s another S/D ele it’s a stalemate, they both tickle each other and heal it off.
He has very little impact on the overall success or fail of his team except for some very nicely placed CC and modest damage contribution.
Keeping that in mind, watch his warrior videos. He absolutely wrecks. 1v1, even 1v2, he’s walking away winning.
One particular match he was full tanky itemized with high vit/tough, almost 19k health, tried to hold a point against a ranger/necro just long enough for help to arrive. They easily took him down in under 9 seconds with all defensives, before help could even begin to arrive.
He’s a great players and using his skills he’s able to show how a ele can be somewhat viable. The problem still remains, he’s a top tier player, “making it work” and yet still running from less skilled players than himself simply because of the class.
This is such an obvious troll, thief → ele and thinks ele is op… Bwahahaha
really feels like the damage vs survivability is generally off for this class. If you build lots of toughness/vit you hit like a wet noodle, and are still able to be bursted by cannon builds if you run out of stamina, which as a result of increased fight lengths is common. I you build glass cannon you can nuke people down, but other glass cannon builds will very often burst you faster since you have literally the lowest toughness/hp polls in the game. The middle ground simply means you excel at neither position and generally still suffer the same problems of both GC and Survival builds.
The Risk vs Reward is not there. Even if you hit someone with a full fire combo which is easily dodged and/or outright misses due to casting time/ground targeting allowing them to simply walk away (not even dodge). So actually landing full combos is a very challenging experience, especially with S/D and staff (which staff is almost laughable in sPVP). That being said, when you are successful at hitting everything, you merely perform as well as other classes that require much less skill.
So Elementalist get the lowest toughness/health pool of every class, they should get the highest damage potential to offset should they not? Or perhaps more CC, more escapes, something… This is simply not the case, and that is a problem.
Agree with most of what you said.
I’ve definitely seen groups advertising for dungeons and tPVP that specifically state no elementalist. I find it annoying but I just start my own and go about my business.
I mind less in PVP as people often have certain team builds they are trying to accomplish that elementalist just may not fit into.
Couldn’t agree more. I’d love to roll with fiery greatsword in pvp, but being completely locked out of you other vital tools means death. Also if you pop mistform or go underwater your summoned weapon is done. Having it be our “offset” could be a solution to this.
at level 80 with mostly exotics for gear I ALWAYS lose money in WvW, winning or losing. The income from events is negligible to 20s+ repair bills. We are also expected to pay for keep upgrades, siege weaponry etc. Items simply should not lose durability unless you die to pve factors while in WvW. Disincentivizing pvp is never a good thing imo.
Spent a full day in WvW this weekend, between keep upgrades, seige weapons and item repairs (with item repairs being the bulk of cost) I came up almost a gold and a half in the negatives. That’s a HUGE money sink to enjoy competitive WvW pvp. Sure I could just not contribute to my side and -maybe- break even, or at least spend substantially less if I only paid for item repairs, but that isnt being a very good team player either.
It’s something I really hope they reconsider
One thing that would help IMO would be a more noticeable particle effect when quickness is applied, for enemies around you that you dont have directly targeted you may have no idea that thief or warrior just popped a quickness buff.
And even though he did win the duel, it took him close to three full minutes to bring my thief down, yes it takes a decent ele player close to three minutes to kill a noob thief, that’s just how bad elementalists are at the moment. The class simply doesn’t reward your skills as a player with good results, it simply awards excellent gameplay with the results anyone can get easily playing other classes.
This is -EXACTLY- the problem with elementalist. It’s a very high skill cap class, which I LOVE, but the reward for performing perfectly simply means you perform on par with other classes, any failing to correctly combo, dodge or use defensive at the exact time you need to results in a loss, nearly always… And when fights can drag out for 2~3 mins in some cases this becomes more and more of an issue as time goes on, human error and all that.
I think this is a good idea. sPVP players surely would like to play in WvW and earn rewards there sometimes, but being able to slowly level your character to 80 to earn traits/skillpoints/etc for when you DO decide to WvW would be a good way to let the pvpers purely pvp without being forced to be a completely trait and skilless player when it comes to WvW without being forced to PVE.
I trend to agree, the main issue for me is balance. PVP was much more balanced in GW1. As an elementalist, against coordinated teams in tournament play, life is miserable, you are most often taken down so fast, even with excellent skill usage, timing, dodging and defensives that you have very little impact on the game play other than support DPS when you’re able to fulfill that role with S/D.
On the other hand, I roll up a thief and won 3 tournaments in a row having never played the class before. Did quite well with mesmer and warrior I won every single 1v1 encounter and most certainly contributed to the wins.
The game obviously shouldnt be balanced for 1v1, but in GW1 each class had another class/build they would excel as countering, it doesnt feel like that is the case for elementalist and engineer, those two classes feel very week.
With full toughness/vit/power build sitting around 17k health and 2800 armor, the elementalist can still be burst down with HS spam faster than they can even call for help more times than not unless they have every CD at their disposal and even then it’s usually a VERY close fight which generally results in the ele running/kiting to team members. If you are build glass cannon you of course get instabursted.
In world v world the opposite is true, as an elementalist you’re able to wreck with AOE damage from behind your lines making the class extremely strong.
In hotjoin, there are enough players, and less skilled players that elementalist feels just right, it’s a good challenge but players arent good enough from what I’ve found to shut you down that hard, that often.
Tournament play is the big issue here for eles and engineers.
Anet put out balance patches quite frequently in GW1 to really help pvp be competitive and rewarding, I hope they can accomplish the same here. As an ele player all through beta and over 70 tournament matches since launch I’m at a point where I just find it better for my team to roll with one of the other classes until there are some changes, which is unfortunate as I love the playstyle and feel of that class.