Guild Wars 2

I am absolutely against gating Druid’s best healing (CAF) behind mediocre healing (Glyphs, regeneration, Spirits, and Staff), especially considering the lack of synergy with base Ranger skills and traits. There is no way to properly scale CAF generation behind total healing without making Druid incredibly underpowered in solo combat and incredibly overpowered in groups, and balancing individual heals becomes a nightmare with regard to programming and balance. It also rewards poor gameplay—it enables groups to facetank damage without any strategic play, active/passive defenses, or even dodging, because this will fill CAF faster and their Druid can heal the difference.

Keep CAF generation simple. There is no need for complicated gating mechanisms that ultimately undermine skillful play and reduce effective build variety. Have a static CD (that can be traited for CD reduction, like Berzerk Mode, Attunements, and Shroud), or have it perform as a resource (Energy, Initiative) that generates over time, and each skill drains a set amount of CAF (with individual skill CDs if necessary to prevent spamming).

If it is similar to other class mechanics, then so be it. Other class mechanics are already similar to one another—not out of lack of imagination, but because there are limited ways to make things work effectively within the confines of the game itself.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Chrispy.5641:

But hey, Druid is perfectly viable so threads like this shouldn’t exist, am I right Tragic?
(/sarcasm)

It’s user-unfriendly, poorly designed, bugged, thematically out of place, clunky …
… But viable for certain contents.
But with their last changes done to the class? I’m this close to starting a petition.
(/completely frank)

I am extremely disappointed with Druid’s handling. Druid has been, quite frankly, poorly conceptualized and even more poorly executed. There is a lot of wasted potential in Druid, and, judging from the advent of Heart of Thorns, it seems that the future holds even more disappointment.

Storm.6408:

I agree that CF shouldn’t be lost when entering downstate. Its like if a necro lost all of his DS when going down.

Honestly, I think it’s even worse. A necromancer already has a larger health pool (plus Shroud, so there is a much wider margin for error), Shroud (re)generates much, much faster, Shroud can be entered before it is 100% filled, and—most importantly for group content—other team members are not relying on the necromancer’s Shroud to stay alive and effective.

A necromancer going down, even losing Shroud, cannot wipe a whole team. A Druid going down and losing CA can (and probably already does).

Zatoichi.1049:

making af generation standard does not open up more builds, it does the opposite, it promotes taking exclusively damage stats, that old zerk meta mentality, because by taking healing power, you are often making a significant sacrifice. It sounds to me like maybe you want to play a power ranger and get the same access and benefits from CA as other builds that sacrifice damage to better access it.

Making CAF generation standard does not promote any one build. (Glass cannon builds are encouraged by gameplay itself, and the abundance of active defenses, rather than build superiority.) In fact, locking CAF behind healing puts Druid players in a worse position if they want to heal—because all of their best heals are locked behind CAF. Using mediocre healing in order to access your best healing is a flawed concept.

If Healing Power increased CAF duration (if it stays as a set duration) or improved CAF skills’ effectiveness (it already does), or reduced energy costs (if implemented), these are good rewards for Healing Power builds—but CAF should be accessible to all builds, since it is the foundation of the elite specialization.

If you’re looking for a glass cannon elitist, sorry. I’m not one. I just want Druid to be effective for more builds and playstyles than…one.

Zatoichi.1049:

Scrimschaw.5784:

Zatoichi.1049:

Scrimschaw.5784:

Zatoichi.1049:

As i mentioned in the other thread, full condi clear versus 1 condi clear are on two totally different levels of power, not to mention zerker and druid are such different roles i dont believe a comparison of traits between both of them is totally appropriate.

Considering how anet thinks, If we want CA on such a low Global CD, 10 seconds lets say as some have suggested, how can we not expect a nerf to druidic clarity? Down to as low as 2 or 3 condi clears, instead of a full clear. if were making apples to appes comparisons, why should we expect any better of a trait?

As I said in the other thread, I am totally okay with that. I expect classes to be balanced around one another, not some nebulous “other” standard of completely arbitrary values.

Yeah we keep going back and forth between threads missing responses.

Not to be offensive, but afe you a pvper? I would be sad to see this trait reduced to 2 clears. i personally really like the current version of the trait versus the more and more prevalent condi bomb reapers and scrappers, and to the lesser extent condi mesmers.

Changing this trait would be another giant nerf

I do not play Druid in PvP. Nor do I want to until the balancing has settled. But if it came down to it, I would rather this trait be on the chopping block than access to CAF—especially since this trait is linked to CAF access, anyway.

On base Ranger, I use traited Wilderness Survival skills for condition removal in WvW and PvP.

well, then you are saying you are okay with a nerf to a build that you don’t use, and therfore don’t fully understand. Support/celestial Druid is extremely good in PvP, and up until update today, was in an extremely good, albeit slightly overtuned spot. even post nerf, a overall better choice for a pvp team than power survival for sure, which I am also very familiar with. No one is arguing against some love for the base ranger though.

Gutting a trait to fix a borked mechanic is not the answer

While I would like to think that Druid wasn’t nerfed BECAUSE of its strong place in PvP, (and the many PvP forum complaints) it most likely was. It was too strong of a bunker, and Arenanet is actively nerfing bunker builds right now because they are less exciting for viewers to watch. I prefer playing a bunker in PvP (old Bunker Guard here), but as a whole, PvPers and viewers seem to want fast, exciting action and not skillful support/defense.

If it comes down to it, I would rather a single, Adept-tier trait with viable alternatives be gutted, rather than gutting the CAF mechanic for every other build and playstyle. This will hurt me, too (I use Druid in WvW with base Ranger Survival skills, using CAF for stunbreak/healing/CC), but I can acknowledge that the trait is out of line compared with similar Adept-tier traits in other classes and will probably be hit with a nerf regardless.

Zyrhan.3180:

Heal to unlock better healing is… weird in a game that’s about taking an active role in combat, especially on a base class that doesn’t have amazing healing options.

Thank you for mentioning this (in my opinion) incredibly important conundrum. Locking the best healing behind mediocre healing is a flawed, counterintuitive gate.

Zatoichi.1049:

AF percentages ticks need to be more linked with healing power. Builds with high Healing Power should be rewarded with bigger ticks of AF generation when using heals, and should get to CA faster than non healing power builds, regardless of how much heals, heal for.

This is counterintuitive in PvE and promotes bunkering in PvP. Considering all the complaints about Druid being too powerful as a bunker (and thus the numerous nerfs), I cannot (and do not want to) see CAF being balanced around a single playstyle that is actively discouraged in competitive formats. If CAF is most accessible to healing bunkers, then it is going to be nerfed even further—and other builds and playstyles will be harmed even more.

Keeping CAF generation standard regardless of build is easier to balance and opens up a wider variety of playstyles.

Zatoichi.1049:

Scrimschaw.5784:

Zatoichi.1049:

As i mentioned in the other thread, full condi clear versus 1 condi clear are on two totally different levels of power, not to mention zerker and druid are such different roles i dont believe a comparison of traits between both of them is totally appropriate.

Considering how anet thinks, If we want CA on such a low Global CD, 10 seconds lets say as some have suggested, how can we not expect a nerf to druidic clarity? Down to as low as 2 or 3 condi clears, instead of a full clear. if were making apples to appes comparisons, why should we expect any better of a trait?

As I said in the other thread, I am totally okay with that. I expect classes to be balanced around one another, not some nebulous “other” standard of completely arbitrary values.

Yeah we keep going back and forth between threads missing responses.

Not to be offensive, but afe you a pvper? I would be sad to see this trait reduced to 2 clears. i personally really like the current version of the trait versus the more and more prevalent condi bomb reapers and scrappers, and to the lesser extent condi mesmers.

Changing this trait would be another giant nerf

I do not play Druid in PvP. Nor do I want to until the balancing has settled. But if it came down to it, I would rather this trait be on the chopping block than access to CAF—especially since this trait is linked to CAF access, anyway.

On base Ranger, I use traited Wilderness Survival skills for condition removal in WvW and PvP.

Zatoichi.1049:

As i mentioned in the other thread, full condi clear versus 1 condi clear are on two totally different levels of power, not to mention zerker and druid are such different roles i dont believe a comparison of traits between both of them is totally appropriate.

Considering how anet thinks, If we want CA on such a low Global CD, 10 seconds lets say as some have suggested, how can we not expect a nerf to druidic clarity? Down to as low as 2 or 3 condi clears, instead of a full clear. if were making apples to appes comparisons, why should we expect any better of a trait?

As I said in the other thread, I am totally okay with that. I expect classes to be balanced around one another, not some nebulous “other” standard of completely arbitrary values.

Zatoichi.1049:

Scrimschaw.5784:

Zatoichi.1049:

If they make it a standard cd, then you know they will make it absurdly high. Yhink about it it from a pvp standpoint, do you really think anet wants us to have a full condi clear/stun break on a predictable cd, as some have suggested as low as 8seconds? Common people…careful what you wish for.

Berzerk Mode has a 15s CD untraited, and can take an Adept-tier trait for a stunbreak and 1 condition clear. It can be traited with a competing Adept-tier trait for a 10s CD (and no stunbreak/condition clear). I see no reason why CAF should function differently with regard to traits.

1. “Full condi clear.” You should know how much stronger that is compared to 1…i feel silly even needing to write this.
2. We know full well we cannot always compare apples to oranges. Zerker is in so much of a worse state than druid in competative formats.
3. Going zerk mode cant heal an entire team up to full health. They are on completely different levels of both power, and function.

Thes best way to balance af generation is to connect it to healing power. More healing power, more af generation. that way it balances how often you can heal compared to what role you decide to play, from full glass cannon, to full support, and everything in between.

Okay, make CAF have only a single condition cleared with that trait. I’m fine with that. By the time I have 13 unique conditions stacked on me, I’m probably already dead, anyway—Rangers don’t have the same health pool as Warriors, nor do they have access to Resistance. If I only have a couple of conditions on me, I can use other condition-cleanses. Again, cool with me.

If you’re talking PvP, sure, Berzerker is in a worse state right now (barring development of any good builds.) Warrior and Thieves as a whole are being left out in PvP. That means Warriors and Thieves should be brought up to match other classes, not that a single class (Druid) is brought low. Since I don’t see other specializations taking the same heat as Druid, even though they can provide full-team healing (aurashare Tempest, Ventari Revenant), utility, AND deal damage at the same time, it’s kind of hard to use that as an excuse for nerfing Druid.

In PvE, Berzkerker is undeniably in a better spot than Druid right now. DPS is always needed in PvE—especially higher-level PvE— while healing is not. Healing is even less needed in groups of good players.

Balancing access to Astral Form around Healing Power reduces the number of viable builds for Druids, promotes over-healing, and encourages bad gameplay (no need to avoid damage). This is not a good method of balancing CAF generation.

Roy Dreadstorm.2093:

they should give us back the good AF gain and up the astral form’s cd to 20-30 sec , that would be very good , because here the problem is to get astral form way too fast , and druidic clarity fits a lot with it in pvp > ground nerfing

The CD on CAF should absolutely not be 20-30 seconds, given that entering CAF already sacrifices a Druid’s DPS for healing (it does not serve as a bonus on top of regular gameplay—it signifies a priority change). There is no amount of healing that can make up for 20-30 seconds without access, because players have a limited health pool. This high of a CD will make other healing-centric builds (aura-share Tempest, Ventari Revenant) FAR superior to Druid with regard to healing, since they are not locked out of their healing at any point, and can heal when their allies need it—not when some arbitrary period of time has passed.

For trait purposes, Berzerk Mode has a 15 second cooldown, an Adept-tier trait that is a stunbreak + (single) condition clear, with a competing trait that gives Berzerk Mode a 10s CD (and no stunbreak/condition clear). There is no reason why CAF can’t match this, especially since CAF already is not a straight-up upgrade to use off-CD like Berzerk Mode, but a strategic resource.

Zatoichi.1049:

If they make it a standard cd, then you know they will make it absurdly high. Yhink about it it from a pvp standpoint, do you really think anet wants us to have a full condi clear/stun break on a predictable cd, as some have suggested as low as 8seconds? Common people…careful what you wish for.

Berzerk Mode has a 15s CD untraited, and can take an Adept-tier trait for a stunbreak and 1 condition clear. It can be traited with a competing Adept-tier trait for a 10s CD (and no stunbreak/condition clear). I see no reason why CAF should function differently with regard to traits.

Relying on healing to generate CAF is counterintuitive and rewards poor gameplay. Druids already sacrifice damage when they enter CAF—that is the tradeoff for entering the form. There is no need to make entering CAf even more restrictive and complicated, and there is no reason that CAF should not be equally accessible on different builds. Different builds should be rewarded by trait selection and scaling coefficients, not by access to the basic specialization mechanic.

Either have CAF function as a flat CD (raise it to 15 seconds to match Berzerk, if necessary, to address concerns about traits—and give a CD reduction trait) or have it function like Revenant’s energy (can enter CAF freely (i.e. not 100% full) when the lowest-cost skill can be cast, does not degenerate in form, each CAF skill has an associated energy cost/CD, and rework associated traits). While these solutions would not address all concerns, they are at least simpler to balance and rework.

There is no need for CAF to be a special snowflake. We have working mechanisms in-game already that function smoothly and intuitively. Use those as a baseline.

If somebody is unhappy with the game, it is their prerogative to post a bad review, no matter what you feel on the matter.

Hammerguard.9834:

Why are people literally asking Anet to make a boring and lazy CAF?

Well, that’s probably since they’ve amply proven by this time that they can’t make CAF engaging and useful. If I have to pick between “boring and lazy” or “complicated and useless”, I will pick boring and lazy every time.

Please, a static cooldown, or have CAF function as energy. No more of this counter-intuitive “heal to heal” finagling that rewards poor gameplay.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

“Druid is already unnecessary for the current raid” disagree with this , Raids account for every class or build type no one is unnecessary.

“Unnecessary” just means “not required”. It looks like there are many viable team build compositions (though certainly not EVERY build is viable) judging from the successful teams.

I don’t want any one class or build to become “necessary” for raids. I am happy that having a Druid is not a requirement for a successful raid. Because of this, it is important that Druid (and Ranger) stays balanced with regard to other classes so it doesn’t become a liability in challenging content.

I want Druid to be in a good place for raids even after potential nerfs, and even if people become skilled enough where they don’t need a dedicated healer. That’s why I constantly argue for making Druid more versatile, more integrated with base Ranger, and simplifying mechanics that are difficult to balance (in this thread, AF generation).

Tragic Positive.9356:

Scrimshaw, even though you are right, Raids have completely different Toughness values.
I was doing 3 times the damage of my normal everyday Maguuma numbers.
Scaling like a tiger with buffs further. Conditions just dropped miles behind, even more so because of mobile encounter.

I haven’t seen much of them but Raids basically work on berserker stat again. Conditions are needed because of the split phase (where red guardian is vulnerable to condis only), not because of DPS or efficiency.
Well, if there’s anyone who got further, he might share the knowledge.

Ah, well, I was hoping that they would be comparable, but I also don’t want a Viper meta being created by scaling toughness too high like they did with Fractals. I used Zealot’s stats for my raid attempts in beta (PUG group, we wiped on the last ~25%), and that worked pretty well, but I never tried conditions for comparison since the Guardian moves so much (well, if your tank is leading him correctly). Looks like the successful groups only required maybe 2 glass condi builds total, so…seems like our first raid wing is still best served by Berzerker stats, but that’s still miles ahead of a pure-condi DPS meta for class/build variety purposes at least.

Fluffball.8307:

The video I posted literally directly above you doesn’t have a druid.

I also watched Brazil finish the first boss (tuned it right as he got it). His group used 9 DPS and 1 druid that was both healer and tank. I’m not sure how much that was needed though since everytime the party took damage the leader called for a stack and waterfield.

Yeah, Druid’s competition with water fields was exactly what I was afraid of when Druid was announced. I actually like the function of water fields, and how they require group organization for maximum effectiveness, so I don’t want to see them removed/nerfed. But that leaves Druid in a really awkward place, if Druid is not even that useful in the high-end content for which it was created.

LughLongArm.5460:

How did you come to the conclusion my proposal will gate CA more compared to pre-patch? Do you siriously think you shoud have magic button that grants condi removal/stun break/3k heal/steath and super speed / every 10 sec? I know that exacly what ypu want out off your druid build, this selfish magic button. Atleast I want to insetvise the use of unpopular skiils/traits/ pets/sigils/runes etc and to achive balance.. you jsu want to be imba. AF as it is today is OP as hell and wont last for long.

I based it off of your own words—that it would take up to 15 seconds spamming heals to charge, versus the 10 it took to charge it with Troll Unguent and Staff autoattack spamming prior to the patch.

In my comment history, you may note that I am happy to balance CAF skills themselves around a standard CD—ideally by using CAF like Revenant’s energy, nixing the 15s duration, and using both a standard amount of CAF and CDs on skills to avoid spamming. I’m happy to have CAF balanced around 10s CD, like Shroud. I’ll happily accept a 15s CD as well, if you feel that it compares more to Berzerk mode than Shroud. What I don’t want is access to CAF restricted to the point where certain builds are unable to use it at all, especially considering the backwards gating of healing behind…healing. This is awkward and redundant.

The benefits that CAF provides upon entry/exit are not unprecedented. Other classes have similar effects in their forms/attunements, including Elementalist/Tempest, Necromancer/Reaper, and Berzerker. Elementalist and Necromancer have a 10s base CD on their class mechanics, which can be reduced with traits, and Berzerkers have a 15s CD. I can provide a list of these benefits if you would like, but they also include stunbreaks, condition cleanses, and healing. Other classes can also do damage while in their respective forms, unlike Druid. I don’t want Druid to be balanced in a vacuum, without taking other classes’ abilities into account. Druid is in a precarious position right now, and it very easily can slip into uselessness with careless nerfs.

Druid is already unnecessary for the current raid—the hardest PvE content in the game, and the reason that Druid as an elite specialization even exists (killing the ‘Zerker meta). (Other threads have links to no-Druid raid completion.) Reducing Druids’ access to the most integral part of the elite specialization is not an answer for its perceived OP state in WvW/PvP. Again, impulsive nerfing will result in Druid’s uselessness in all three game modes, and with little chance of timely fixes judging from Ranger’s history.

Tl;dr: Keep CAF form accessible to all builds. Balance CAF skills around a standard 10 or 15s CAF CD if necessary. Do not nerf things impulsively with little thought for consequences.

LughLongArm.5460:

Scrimschaw.5784:

LughLongArm.5460:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Or, to not complicate things too much – give CA a cooldown of 10 seconds and be done with it.

But what about the flavor and the fun of build diversity ? and clean 10 sec is way to powerful, it should 10sec or less as reward to spesific builds/playing efforts/scenarios.

A flat 10 seconds would encourage build diversity by allowing Rangers to take the Druid line and play in multiple ways without camping staff/Troll Unguent. More barriers on CAF = fewer viable builds that use CAF.

I would strongly argue form over function in game mechanics. I don’t care about flavor, if flavor results in sub-par mechanics with unreliable availability. This is why Ranger and Necromancer were bottom-tier in PvE for years—emphasis on “flavor” (ranger = pet class with unreliable AI; necromancers = selfish, low DPS) over usefulness.

You dont need to cmap at either TU nor staff as you can build AF out of regen(boon)/ druid traits/glyphs/natural healing(trait)/IB(trait)/nature spirit(elitle) pets heals(fren/bear/moas etc..) food(mango pie/omnoberry pie etc…) runes and sigils(renewal/blood/liching/dolyiak/ defender etc..)

This what build diversity is about, not to play the same LB/GS build with jsut the druid trait line expecing to have everything in one build. And 10 sec CD is insanly powerful with out spesific requierments. I do think builds with TU anf staff should regen AF faster. But if u’r LB/GS+WHAO taking use of all of the above tools to build AF. ya you suppsed to be fine with my proposal.
I think it should be like:

Maximasing AF regen build – 5-15 sec or less to build full bar, depens if you are solo or with m8s you can heal, aoe regen etc..

average AF regen builds(taking only few of the tools available) 15-25 sec to build full bar.

No AF regen considaration at all 25-35sec to build full bar.

Remebr you start a match with full bar and can spend only 50% for quick stun break/condi remove and heal. So to fill 50% bar even with the 3 option is like 15 sec.

I was referring to pre-patch with my comment about Troll Unguent and Staff—when CAF gain WAS heavily gated. I brought it up because your method would gate CAF even further. Your method is needlessly complicated and much more difficult to balance, and it serves no purpose other than to make Druids healbots. Access to a basic specialization mechanic should not be gated so that certain playstyles will never even see use of the mechanic in a fight.

Healing is, by its nature, not required for the entirety of a fight. Locking Druids out when healing IS required is bad design.

There are also non-PvP game modes to balance for. One of the most important positions for Druid right now is in raids, and your changes would make it more difficult for Druids to provide support to their raid squads. Gate CAF too heavily, and other, more reliable, non-gated healing classes will take the place of Druids—Rangers will once again be shoved to the side in favor of more versatile classes.

Please remember to report this to the Ranger Bugs thread along with the circumstances under which you experienced it! It is probably a priority target issue, but this makes/breaks spirits in higher-level content.

I prefer direct damage for versatility purposes (I like skirmishing with Sword/WH and being able to swap to Longbow for ranged damage), but Berzerker damage over time is lower than Sinister/Viper on stationary targets. For moving targets, you are unlikely to see any difference.

Fractal toughness scaling is going to change in December to be more accommodating for Berzerker builds, so I wouldn’t use high-level Fractals to decide your build either way right now.

Druid brings CC, party DPS support, and burst healing, at the cost of some personal DPS and survivability. You can use base Ranger traits to improve Spirits (which provide unique buffs) to apply pulsing boons. Revenant brings DPS (Shiro), boon manipulation (Mallyx), party boons (Glint), sustained healing (Ventari), and damage mitigation/support (Jalis).

Tragic Positive.9356:

Glyphs are fine.
I just feel strange to chaos-cast them because I’m gonna run out of CAF in 3 seconds time you know.

That’s the biggest problem with casting glyphs in CAF, IMO. I’m happy to play strategically with Glyphs and risk having them unavailable in either normal or CAF form when I need them. That is part of strategic gameplay—balancing risk vs. reward. The reward for using them in CAF needs to be improved a bit more, however, since you are essentially wasting CAF time while casting glyphs. Either that, or have CAF function like energy, rather than a timer.

Allowing AF generation from other sources encourages build variety. I see nothing wrong with this. There is still a flat 10s CD on CAF, which could be reached prior to this patch by using Troll Unguent/Staff. Nothing has changed except opening up new heal/weapon options for Druids.

All condition builds on strong condition classes have the ability to tank and deal damage. This is not an issue unique to Druids. If you want to change how condition damage works so that it requires investment in 3 stats, make that argument, rather than complaining about how you were defeated by another player and therefore their class should be nerfed.

LughLongArm.5460:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Or, to not complicate things too much – give CA a cooldown of 10 seconds and be done with it.

But what about the flavor and the fun of build diversity ? and clean 10 sec is way to powerful, it should 10sec or less as reward to spesific builds/playing efforts/scenarios.

A flat 10 seconds would encourage build diversity by allowing Rangers to take the Druid line and play in multiple ways without camping staff/Troll Unguent. More barriers on CAF = fewer viable builds that use CAF.

I would strongly argue form over function in game mechanics. I don’t care about flavor, if flavor results in sub-par mechanics with unreliable availability. This is why Ranger and Necromancer were bottom-tier in PvE for years—emphasis on “flavor” (ranger = pet class with unreliable AI; necromancers = selfish, low DPS) over usefulness.

OGDeadHead.8326:

LegallyBinding.4937:

Always use CAF 2 before 3 for AoE retaliation

Good! And tbh, something I haven’t payed attention to. +1

Don’t forget you can do this with traited glyphs, too, since they create a Seed of Life!

Zach.2618:

Scrimschaw.5784:

Zach.2618:

If you think I have misspoken and you did indeed give me constructive feedback which I might have missed, feel free to crop it out and prove me wrong. Where’s all the constructive feedback that you guys have given on how to improve the build? Because I sure as hell don’t see it.

Okay, here it is.

Scrimschaw.5784:

For better support, invest in Nature Magic and use traited Spirits. Stone Spirit alone will provide an averaged 16.5% damage reduction over the life of the spirit. The Vigor from Sun Spirit will allow your allies to dodge more, further reducing the damage they take. If you can maintain Weakness on enemies (you have good access through pets and Winter’s Bite), this will provide even more defense from hard-hitting enemies. CCing enemies and using CC to knock down breakbars will keep your allies safe as well.

Unless you would like me to list CC skills, I think this was pretty specific.

Yeah but which traits do I replace those with? I don’t need YOU to tell me what the traits do I have the wiki for that. Listing traits is good and all but how do I use it to improve my build? Which trait line do I replace? I wish I had more trait lines so I can take every trait but apparently I only have 3. Anyways I met up with tragic positive and apparently he told me you knew him yeah so I Guess you were just trying to defend him. Ah well I won’t post here anymore, tragic positive linked me to the daze build you guys were talking about with spirits and all but yeah I got my own ways to deal with dazing mobs. It’s all good you guys can enjoy your daze build and such I got no issues.

I’m glad you had a chat with Tragic Positive. He’s a great guy!

Zach, I deliberately didn’t tell you exactly what traits and utilities to swap because I feel like it is more important to understand WHY to swap things out so that you can figure out which ones fit the scenario you are playing. Pure build copying/pasting is what lead to “LF1M zerk only, PS warrior or ele” META for so long, and I am in loathe to further that. IMO, there is no one “Best Build”, but there is a best build for your playstyle, your personal goals, your party setup, and the encounter you are facing. I was not trying to lead you to any specific build, including the one Tragic Positive linked.

If I were you, I wouldn’t bother with the daze build either. It doesn’t fit your stated goals. I would, however, still strongly recommend taking the Nature Magic line (I would personally swap out Wilderness Survival (the DPS loss is minimal compared to the Skirmishing Line and is offset by Bountiful Hunter). Either Evasive Purity or Vigorous Training would be strong, but dependent on fight/party composition. Nature’s Vengeance and Spirits synergize well with higher-level fractals for several reasons:

1. Spirits provide Ranger-specific party buffs that are not available to other classes
2. Spirit of Nature synergizes well with Healing Power and the Druid line
3. The number of spirit-granted boons improves DPS on classes running Bountiful Hunter-type traits
4. The boons themselves improve DPS and help mitigate damage
5. Boons are quickly reapplied after being stripped with Boon Thieves, unlike longer-duration boons applied by other classes
6. Boons and spirit effects have a large application radius (1000) and do not require stacking (important for the Social Awkwardness instability)

And, something that is often overlooked, but Spirits count as targets in AoEs and Cleaves, even if they don’t have aggro from enemies. They help mitigate the damage your allies take by distributing damage amongst non-players for attacks with a target # limit.

The reason I emphasize mitigating damage in Fractals, rather than healing damage, is because of Agony. Agony reduces received healing by ~50% per stack, which means that pure Healing Power-focused builds with no ability to mitigate damage are going to be much less effective if your allies have 1+ stacks of Agony on them (which is pretty common). While damage mitigation won’t save your allies if they are taking serious damage from Agony stacks, it will provide a buffer from enemy attacks that will allow you more time to heal them, even if they have Agony.

This is more direct advice than I prefer giving, but I hope that you find it helpful, if you are still reading this thread.

Tested this build yesterday on a solo FotM 50 (full Berzerker gear—I’m not a masochist) to get a general feel for the survivability and DPS. I swapped out Stone Spirit for Glyph of Empowerment since I had no group to support, Glyph of Rejuvenation to “We Heal as One!” for the same reason, and Cultivated Synergy for Primal Echoes (I frequently use Staff 5 and 3 in combination).

I was able to keep my pets alive ~20% longer than with my usual MM/Sk/BM build, keeping them in commission for ~50% of the fight. Because of this, it’s hard to judge personal DPS 100% accurately, but Mai Trin only took about 5-7 minutes longer than a normal run, and I had a much larger margin for error. I started by casting my spirits all at once, but later found I had better results by staggering Spirit of Nature after the first death of Stone Spirit on my rotation, to help buffer the increased damage my pet and I received after Stone Spirit’s death.

Within the arena, I was constantly in the effect range of Spirits, and my damage was noticeably improved by the pulsing boons from the Spirits + Bountiful Hunter. Spirits generally did not last their full duration, due to Mai’s attacks and Horrik’s cannons, but this would be less of an issue with a full group of players to help mitigate aggro in non-cannon phases.

Overall, I was pleased with the results. Loss in personal DPS was offset slightly by the Nature Magic line and better pet survivability (I expect the results to translate in a glassy DPS party on higher levels—improved party member survivability/less downed time = DPS increase to offset my decrease). I also expect other classes to benefit damage-wise from the pulsing stability on Spirit of Nature. My personal survivability was improved (I was never downed, even with a couple sloppy mistakes that would usually kill me). My only concern on FotM 91-100 is with Grace of the Land, due to Social Awkwardness instability combined with the small radius on CAF 1 and 2, and the PBAoE nature of 4. This leaves me with CAF 3 to proc GotL on allies. This is more an issue with the small radii on CAF skills and the nature of anti-stacking mechanisms, but I thought it was important to note.

I’ll be testing this in a group sometime soon, but wanted to get done with solo testing first. Cheers!

I see no reason not to have it generate at a steady rate over time. It’s simpler and more predictable for the player, and easier to balance for the developers. CAF does not need multiple hard gates on usage.

I only use Cosmic Ray and Seed of Life on myself, since I can predict my own pathing.

Both definitely need a radius increase if they are to be used on allies.

Hazka.6503:

I think you are not giving Spirit of Nature the credit it deserves. With Monk runes and 1200 healing power it is over 600 healing per second, on top of regen already being more than 400. That’s more hp/s than any other class can do with their healing skill. I just don’t feel like Glyph of Unity is very necessary since you only get the increased healing while in CA, and if you are running a healing build you already heal up everyone to max in no time with CA skills. Also, you say Unity has a larger radius, but it is only 600 tether range, 400 initial range compared to the 1000 range of spirit (only passive effect). The lower cooldown is incredibly nice though.
Overall I think spirit is a lot better because it gives you a lot higher sustain during the downtime of CA, wihch is where you actually need the additional healing.

I think that radius difference between Spirit and Glyph definitely makes or breaks the usefulness of Glyph. For things like FotM 91-100 and the first part of the raid that we encountered in beta, stacking for Glyph of Unity healing is pretty heavily punished. It might be good if there are heavy damage phases in raids that allow for stacking healing, so everyone can bunker down while a Druid uses CAF/Unity, but in general the use seems very restricted even with the low CD.

Zach.2618:

If you think I have misspoken and you did indeed give me constructive feedback which I might have missed, feel free to crop it out and prove me wrong. Where’s all the constructive feedback that you guys have given on how to improve the build? Because I sure as hell don’t see it.

Okay, here it is.

Scrimschaw.5784:

For better support, invest in Nature Magic and use traited Spirits. Stone Spirit alone will provide an averaged 16.5% damage reduction over the life of the spirit. The Vigor from Sun Spirit will allow your allies to dodge more, further reducing the damage they take. If you can maintain Weakness on enemies (you have good access through pets and Winter’s Bite), this will provide even more defense from hard-hitting enemies. CCing enemies and using CC to knock down breakbars will keep your allies safe as well.

Unless you would like me to list CC skills, I think this was pretty specific.

@ OP: There is no conspiracy of Ranger players here. You are badmouthing people who offer you genuine advice because they want to see your build improved. You admitted to being an inexperienced Ranger player, and it shows—especially considering you think that Ranger isn’t a “real” DPS class. But since you claim that DPS isn’t important, let’s readdress your support.

Again, if you want to provide useful support to your allies, I suggested many options in one of my previous comments that you completely ignored. To rehash the most important points:

• Shorter fights = less damage taken by your party members.
• Preventing damage always trumps healing damage.
• Relying on stacking for ANY support in FotM 91-100 is counterintuitive because of the Social Awkwardness instability. You are killing your allies if you require them to stack for your support. Agony reduces the effectiveness of healing as well.
• Traiting Spirits to pulse boons is some of the best support you can give your allies, especially with the Boon Thieves instability.

There is a reason that people are giving you the same advice as one another, and it has nothing to do with some ridiculous grand META conspiracy. (In fact, I don’t even play a META build.) You posted a build on a public forum, and other players provided feedback. Nothing more.

Swagger.1459:

Let the guy or gal share his or her build in peace. Geez

Of course players are going to offer constructive criticism on a publicly-posted build that does nothing well within the boundaries of its stated purpose. It has nothing to do with META, but strengthening the build. Since OP made claims about DPS (especially given that much of the build is dedicated to providing party DPS in a manner that is lackluster in higher-level fractals), it is perfectly ordinary that people are going to challenge these claims. I also challenged his defensive support and offered advice on how he could improve that, should he desire to provide meaningful defensive support with his build.

Fluffball.8307:

Ok, one last try here. This is just life advice, not ranger advice. Every time you post, you make incredible, wild assumptions about an imaginary forum-foe. I honestly think you’ve combined every forum poster into one adversary, and I’m not being facetious.

When you read things online, start from a perspective of the writer not attacking you or even not talking to you. Many of the posts you’re responding to are other forum members talking amongst themselves.

I haven’t actually written a single post that was directed to you other than the one where I just addressed you by name. I’ve made no suggestions as to how to change your build at all. And yet you fill the page with invented criticism direct at you and ranting responses.

Try taking a few minutes between reading a post and writing a response.

Fluffball, I fear your advice falls on deaf ears. Since the beginning, he has conflated every poster who criticized his build into one META monolith. Considering I have offered advice on how to improve his defensive support capabilities (in a very non-META manner), and he has completely ignored this advice, I think it is safe to say he doesn’t really care what individual posters are writing at this point and just wants to rant about META players.

Right now, there is no strong need for the healing that Druid provides in any PvE content, and therefore no need to change your stats. If you want to play higher-level fractals, you may want to look into a Sinister or Viper condition-damage build.

Raids are not released and therefore no one can offer a build for this content yet.

I addressed the support issue briefly in my comment (the best support you can give is to bring full DPS as a condition Ranger). I’ll get back to that concept at the end, but first will address your build’s support. To break this down further, let us separate offensive support and defensive support:

Offensive support: As stated previously, the offensive support your build provides is toothless due to a) the Toughness scaling on enemies and b) the personal sacrifice required to support in this manner. Your non-Spirit offensive support also relies entirely on party stacking.

Defensive support: All your support comes down to a single factor: healing. Support is more than healing. The best support negates damage entirely, through Protection, Aegis, Resistance, evasion, blocking, condition cleanse, and mobility skills, rather than relying on reversing the damage through Healing. In attempting to maximize your offensive support, you have drastically reduced the effectiveness of your defensive support. Your healing support also requires stacking, which greatly offsets its usefulness in mobile fights and may in fact increase the damage your allies take by keeping them in the range of AoEs and cleaving skills. Your build only provides weak, one-dimensional defensive support in the form of Healing, when it could offer much more.

For better support, invest in Nature Magic and use traited Spirits. Stone Spirit alone will provide an averaged 16.5% damage reduction over the life of the spirit. The Vigor from Sun Spirit will allow your allies to dodge more, further reducing the damage they take. If you can maintain Weakness on enemies (you have good access through pets and Winter’s Bite), this will provide even more defense from hard-hitting enemies. CCing enemies and using CC to knock down breakbars will keep your allies safe as well.

Getting back to “the best defense is a good offense”. As a Ranger, you have some of the highest condition damage potential in the game. In eschewing this role, you are increasing the length of every fight you participate in. If you could make the fight go…let’s say, 1/5th faster (if you are the only Ranger/Engineer in the party, this number is much higher), that means by pure DPS you have negated the damage your allies take by 20%. Full stop. You can supplement this with healing and defensive support if you wish. However, any time you sacrifice strong offensive power for strong defensive power, you are increasing the damage your allies take, and you are not helping anyone. You are making the fight longer and therefore harder for your allies, allowing your allies to take more damage over the course of the battle.

Keep your personal DPS high through Armor/Weapons/Trinkets/Traits, keep the best DPS rotations when possible, and use supportive utilities to help your party’s offense/defense when needed. This is the best way to provide support as a Ranger/Druid in higher-level fractals.

ChillyChinaman.6057:

@Heimskarl

I’m currently using Marauder’s Jacket and Stalwart Helm for gunslinger Charr so it’s not like Charr are lacking for medium armor.

I will concede however that there is a lack of natural/Druid-y armor sets. The best I’ve come up with is Priory w/ Thief hood for a sneaky ranger. Or the Leather set for the “robe-y” feel.

There is definitely a lack of natural-themed armor for Charr. Have you tried the Nightmare armor? It might provide some of the nature-themed look that you are going for.

Zach.2618:

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Zach

I did read through your post. Your statements are incorrect. You proved it with your reply. You literally have zero idea about the game, yet. That is something you can’t hide anymore. Targeting people to be “sheep” just because they have better knowledge will not help you promote the build.

I would gladly explain why are you wrong, which numbers are wrong and why is your build weaker than any of it’s fellows… But you were never interested in that. If you were, you’d ask for them instead of hating “meta” that existed for a reason.

What I have problems are not walls of text, because I did read through the one of yours. I have problems reading highly self-valued intel repelling reality or constructive criticism.

By this moment, it’s just obvious the build you provided has not a single fact or number to hold onto and can simply be deemed inefficient.

Do have some kind of secret agenda against me or something? Did I ever insult you in anyway before this post? Because seriously it seems like you might have a personal issue with me more than you have my build.
First of all I have in no where mentioned that my build is the highest condi dps for ranger, i even stated it in my original post. This build is mainly for the people who I have heard asking about balancing support with dps as a Druid when I was sitting around in LA, it is a build I mainly posted to help out other rangers who might be at a lost as to finding a good line between support and dps.
Secondly why do you keep saying I have totally no idea about the game? Is it because I admitted that I am a new ranger? Does that make you think you are infinitely better than me? I didn’t even brag about my experience in the game and am so humble to share a build I found useful to me as a new ranger.
If you must know how inexperienced I am at the game, I have done all of the dungeons countless times with various classes except ranger and necro. I main an engi if you must know. I’ve soloed Arah among other small dungeons, done my share of fotm, hit 100 with the achievements 3 days after HoT launched with a PUG group (yes you can pug you just need to know what to do), pvped a ton 4K matches 1k ranked matches with 600 wins, so yeah if you want proof just add me and hit me up in game I’d gladly prove it to you. I’m not saying I’m the most experienced player in the game but I am IMO not inexperienced.
Lastly I have nvr once in this post stated that I hated meta, in fact I often run meta in min max speed run groups back when dungeons were popular. I am also a guy of min maxing my stats so I am very appreciative of meta builds that avid testers have put out. This build that I have shared it a mix of support and dps which you probably won’t find being meta because it is not the MAX dps build meant for Organised groups. However you will find this build to be very good in pugs and Organised groups.

I’m sorry I had to end up sharing my experience a little (bragging if you must) but when being called inexperienced for no apparent reason besides what I can see as a personal vendetta against me, I feel pushed to defend myself. Now pls tell me how experienced are you?

He doesn’t have any kind of vendetta against you. He’s just pointing out—what is obvious to experienced Rangers and Druids—the flaws in your build. In attributing the weaknesses of the build (and your inexplicable lack of knowledge of build editors) to your inexperience, he is giving you the benefit of the doubt. Nothing malicious here. And quite frankly, you are not exactly being humble in your OP or any of the following posts—which is fine, but then you need to back your assertions with some sort of proof. Nobody is concerned with your personality, but they will address the flaws in the build that you posted.

The fact that you completed FotM 100 with this build is irrelevant, considering healing is not required for FotM 1-100—especially now that enemies hit like wet noodles. Optimizing DPS is the strongest group support that you can provide as a Ranger, considering Rangers are one of the few classes with very strong condition damage builds—placing right behind Viper Engineers, who have the highest in-game DPS and a much more complicated rotation.

On to your build. You overstate the potential of this build considerably, especially considering that it requires stacking for optimization of GotL. You suffer a huge DPS loss in several key ways that is NOT compensated for by your group support. Using Staff at all is a huge DPS loss, since it has no condition pressure even with the sigils you have applied. You use it to fill CAF, which you then camp—close to a 100% personal DPS loss for up to 9 seconds while you wait for Quickdraw’s ICD.

At the very least, you are losing 50% (more if you ever camp staff) of your personal DPS to maintain a potential +15% bonus on your party members—which requires stacking your party members in a small area. Your use of Apothecary armor further reduces your personal DPS. Stating that “this rotation will lose out to the general ‘meta’ condition build by about 5 secs worth of condi skill usage” is demonstrably false and deserves ridicule.

Using Glyph of Empowerment, Grace of the Land, and Frost Spirit do not provide the same DPS increases on higher-level fractals as they do on lower-level fractals due to increased Toughness scaling on enemies. Condition damage is far superior to direct damage. You also do not use one of the best condition support utilities in the game: Sun Spirit. This alone makes your build weaker. Using the Jungle Stalker implies that your group has trouble stacking might, which is by itself up to a 25% DPS increase that doesn’t require a group member losing ~50% of their personal DPS. Stacking Vulnerability provides another DPS increase that is possible without personal sacrifice.

Tl;dr: Your claims regarding the build’s DPS are highly inflated, and the support the build provides is unnecessary in fractals. It may be useful in raids, if raids allow for stacking, but it is currently strongly outclassed by other builds.

online.1278:

Druid are truly OP.

what kitten real happening right now is that only Celestial level of druid heals like even Cleric Guardian bunker or Cleric Banner + Shout warrior level of healing, and has much more damage than them. They are even OPer than dd cele ele in terms of druid can both damage and support : dd cele ele lacks in support and their heal most heal themselves but druid, they heal allies too.

They should not have any damage at that healing support level.

What makes Druid so OP is following (when they equip CELE ammy)
1. Dmg : similar or a bit higher than DD cele ele
2. Healing Support Amount : CLERIC level of Guardian bunker or Banner Shout warrior
3. Healing range : Heal both himself and allies, not like DD cele ele can heal themselves mostly.
4. Avatar : God Heal mode.
5. OP but what about mobility? : Yes. they also do have mobility skill from staff.
6. CC? Yes, they do have.

HOW to fix druid?:
This guys should not heal allies but only self-heal (making it like DD Cele Ele Ranger Version), or has no dmg at all at that sustain level. Since they can do both some viable damage and has CLERIC Guardian bunker level of support healing with only CELE ammy, thus, currently very overpowered.

RIP hybrid (celestial) please.

You realize the OP is using a Berzerker’s amulet, yes? Your entire post is off-topic.

Honestly, this build is so middling that I question the quality of your opponents and your definition of “overpowered”. Your “extreme” condition cleanse outside of CAF is a grand total of… 6 conditions, which is easily overcome by any condition-spamming build with access to cover conditions. You have no heavy CC outside of LB 4 and CAF 3. You don’t have any access to boons, nor can you might stack for burst damage. Yet you have no extra vitality or toughness and all your defensive skills have long CDs, which makes it a mediocre attrition build at best.

Really, this is nothing more than a traditional skirmishing build with the Druid traitline swapped in for flavor. The only nerf Druid needs is to the accelerated rate at which Troll Unguent regenerates CAF. Without that, your build crumbles to pieces.

Apart from what others have mentioned above, don’t forget you can CC the Druid pretty easily. If he/she’s running Entangle, that means AT MOST he/she has about 8-10 (depending on build) seconds of stability from Signet of the Wild (which is easy to spot—that’s the Enlargement buff) and a couple from CAF 5 (the long channel with the swirling galaxies). Use stability when starting an engagement so the Druid wastes his/her AoE Dazes. Use your own CCs (Shocking Aura is very effective, especially in Tempest Defense, and synergizes beautifully with Lightning Rod and the Tempest elite specialization).

Keep your distance or CC quickly when you see the Druid enter CAF, because you know he/she is going to use Lunar Impact. It’s got a 3/4 second cast time and serves a dual purpose (healing the Druid and CC’ing you), so keep your distance/keep moving to prevent the Druid from using it both offensively and defensively. Keep strafing back and forth while you’re fighting to avoid additional damage/CC from the pet—pets are notoriously poor at attacking moving targets, but are somewhat strong when they connect.

If you didn’t know, you can kill the roots from Entangle and Ancient Seeds. They have very little HP, so they should go pretty quickly when you attack them.

Wolfey.3407:

What if the Blind portion of the trait was dropped in exchange for the cool down being dropped to 8 seconds. The healing players get from the trait increased by 15%

Would that be a good exchange or is blind something that is a must have for the trait?

For me, I really don’t care for the blind, I mostly ran the trait to keep the parties HP up a little more.

I don’t particularly care for the Blind either. As a whole, I’m not thrilled with the whole concept of “every ____ seconds ____ happens”—it strikes me as a bit passive for a GM trait, especially when using the Staff autoattack (which guarantees proccing LL off CD so long as an ally is within the beam).

If the Blind was removed but the concept was kept the same, though, I would rather Lingering Light’s cooldown was reduced lower than the 8 seconds, and the healing slightly reduced to compensate (depending on ICD reduction). This gives it a bit more use as a “maintenance” heal and a CAF filler.

I don’t know if we’re going to see more damage or healing added to Astral Wisp, given the (IMO, unfounded) complaints in PvP about Druid damage and healing already. Heavy CC and Blind are unlikely for the same reason.

I would like another utility added to the wisp that makes it more situationally useful. Something like boon theft (upon hitting an ally, the wisp steals a boon from the attached enemy and transfers it to the ally) or condition cleanse/conversion on affected allies would be very useful, in-theme, and avoid adding direct damage/healing to the wisp in exchange for more utility in certain situations. The CD of wisp would be increased to accommodate the additional utility, but I see it as a fair tradeoff given that wisp in its current state is generally useless even with its low CD.

Substance E.4852:

Daggers on the Necro and Thief have the standard 130 range of melee attacks and only cleaving on 2 targets rather than 3 is not that big of a deal considering Kick on the ranger sword doesn’t cleave at all.

Both the thief and necro daggers were also balanced with the idea that they only hit 1 target. Letting them hit 2 without a damage nerf was generous.
Considering a theoretical Ranger dagger would already hit for low damage, it’s not unreasonable for it to fully cleave.

If you mean sword range as in the 300 range on kick and pounce then good, the point is to not have an auto that hits at that range because that’s what causes the glue problem.

130 is the range required to hit a target at “arm’s length” for characters. Any more and you are locked into a movement script.

Yeah, I was referring to the kick/pounce range, sorry for not being clear. There are ways of giving the range without animation-locking (throwing daggers, etc.), but I have a hard time seeing it happening.

I just don’t think ArenaNet is going to introduce Daggers as a replacement for Swords without adding…flavor. Plus, introducing daggers as a sword 2.0 limits the Ranger’s potential weapon pool. For example, Sword 2.0 Daggers could take the place of a fast, condition-focused mainhand melee weapon, leaving Rangers with… only the mace? as a potential mainhand melee condition weapon. This also leaves out daggers as an addition for a future elite specialization.

And honestly, I think the lack of cleave on Kick is pretty lame. I would prefer the cleave limit remain as 3 targets (possibly with a decreased cleave radius), even if it isn’t “logical” for a kick to hit 3 targets. IMO, mechanical consistency overrides realism in a game.

I don’t want to see the leap/pounce removed from the sword autoattack. I would like the ability to override movement skills (all of them, not just sword autoattack) with other skills and dodges. Since interrupting movement skills is possible, (weaponswapping, manual interruption like on Light Dash and Dragon’s Surge) the limiting factor is not the game engine but the particular coding of movement skills. Barring that, if the spaghetti code is too much of a hindrance, adding evade frames during animation-locked movement skills is a good temporary bandage. After all, it worked for Revenants.

Fluffball.8307:

Scrimschaw.5784:

There is a problem in that daggers have a shorter range and only cleave 2 targets.

You’re thinking of thieves’ daggers. Weapons themselves have no range or cleave ability. Look at ele daggers or mesmer GS. You could make ranger daggers be 5100 range and cleave 15 targets.

Thief and Necromancer daggers both have this property, and they both use physical attacks, rather than “magical” like Elementalist’s daggers or Mesmer’s greatsword. Maxmum weapon range is also based off average weapon length, and you can bet there would be plenty of complaints if Ranger daggers were hitting at Sword range with no visual indicators. While ArenaNet could make Ranger daggers statistically identical to Ranger sword, there is no precedent for this, and this would remove daggers from the Ranger’s potential weapon pool without adding anything new to the class.

Fluffball.8307:

I get dying from not dodging, I don’t know how you could throw yourself off a cliff with it though. It only does that if you don’t have a target, which means you’re button spamming on a stealthed or near-death enemy.

95% of people’s sword problems could be fixed by using rhythm instead of spamming 1.

You can easily get thrown off a cliff without “spamming 1” if your target teleports/stealths/evades while you are in the middle of your leap. You can also get thrown off if you have a higher ping (greater than 200 milliseconds will do it on my end) or if you are tabbing between targets, since there is a significant retargeting delay. I often get “stuck” on my old target—even after I stop attacking for a significant period of time, and sometimes even when they are dead.

And remember, the slower you attack, the less damage you are doing with your sword. The mainhand sword’s DPS comes from its autoattack speed. Greatsword does 17% less damage than sword on max-Power DPS rotations; if you are attacking 20% slower due to manual skill activation on mainhand sword (there is always a delay with manual skill activation even when you are spamming the skill, and the delay is worse if you are attempting a strategic rhythm), you might as well be using Greatsword for the damage.

Fluffball.8307:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

I think that they should just throw rangers a main-hand dagger as a power weapon which doesn’t animation lock you.

I think 100% of the community (including other professions) would be happy if they gave us daggers that had the exact same stats as swords, only daggers can’t follow your opponent and let you dodge. Then the player could choose which they prefer, and other professions wouldn’t be in an uproar over rangers getting a new weapon.

There is a problem in that daggers have a shorter range and only cleave 2 targets. I would much rather they fix current issues than add new components to the class. The more you add to the class, the thinner spread developer resources are and the harder it is to get older components fixed. And since there is no precedent for adding 2 statistically-identical weapons to the game that fill essentially an identical niche, I suspect there is not a good chance of this happening.