Guild Wars 2

nakoda.4213:

I think you need to brush up on the difference between allegory and analogy.

sentiment and context often carry much more meaning than words, which is to say that comparing the aptitude and influence of hotjoin to tourneys is no different than comparing the aptitude and influence of pve to pvp.

Semantics, the last refuge of the unsustainable argument.

In regards to your earlier post, plenty of people have explained why it is necessary to consider the casual hot join players in any balance discussion. The discussion of economics is relevant because there is a limited resource involved, namely developer hours. I get it, you don’t want the casual hot join players influencing the balance discussion, yet without them there is no long term competitive game. However, I am not saying the competitive player should not have a voice as well. There need to be a dialog that involves both groups.

Or perhaps, I should heed your advice to avoid the trolls.

hmm seems many of you just don’t get it. Cater to the average masses and you get the best return. Cater to the 1% and your potential return is tiny. The game has to be fun for the casual player so that you can convert them to hardcore players. Once the casual group is gone then the game is dead. I have play enough FPS to have seen this happen many times. If the developer fixes what the hardcore players say is a problem but the casual say otherwise pretty soon the casuals are gone. Hardcore players lurk in every causal player but the has to be fun to hook them.

@ those who think mastery is the reward you are in the wrong game. Please go take up competitive chess. Hundreds of years of study, thousands of books and millions of players. Chess will be here in 10 years. GW2 most likely will not, more then likely GW3 will have replaced it.

EnRohbi.2187:

There is virtually no way SoS is going to fall to tier 8,
You have no idea how big the gap in skill is between tiers.

If you’re even pulling +100 PPT in tier 2 at any point in the day, you will settle far higher than tier 8.

Pretty sure you mean coverage or maybe population.

EnRohbi.2187:

Jeknar.6184:

EnRohbi.2187:

There is virtually no way SoS is going to fall to tier 8,
You have no idea how big the gap in skill is between tiers.

Fixed that for you…

No thanks,
I’m going with my original post.

Take your smartass remarks elsewhere.

No really the word skill keeps slipping out when people are discussing WvW and there is no correlation between skill and WvW ranking. None. So althought the main point of your post was that SoS was not not going to tank to T8 they reason you provides is full of kitten and completely invalidates your post. Try again.

@OP
As others have stated, if your done losing people you are not going to fall to T8 and with free transfers over it is pretty much likely that your population is stable.

BG went to Tier 1, Kain is still in Tier 2… just saying

Thresher.3049:

Sam.3645:

What kitten is this? BGBL’s Red Lake tower is still lord-less. All walls/gate down, but we can’t capture it.

Must be development for Anet’s new x-pack of WvWvWally aka “Where’s Wally & why cant we see the crowd he’s also hiding in?”

Can’t see enemies- check
Can’t see friends- check
Can’t see guild claimer- check

Going pretty good so far!

This. Oh this so, much. + 1 interwebs to you sir.

sceptus.9415:

Sorry gotta step outside nice-guy mode for a minute.

Kaineng – right now on your own BL… What exactly is your strategy? Are you afraid of BG? Why attack our south supply when Bay is wide open for you? If everyone else is afraid to say it because of this cool forum vibe we have, I understand, but for the last two weeks it seems to me like you folks are just plain afraid to face BG. This isn’t about score – that was decided by PVEDoor a long time ago. Come on, step up to the plate and show us what you got. Right now, I can safely say that FA is far better than you folks and deserve to be here a lot more than you do. I’m just saying what everyone is thinking here. Sorry I’m the first TC to do it.

Perhaps you should look at the whole map. No, really look at the whole thing. We took hills (from BG) we took greenbiar (from BG). The second we step away from either of those BG is there trying to take it back. We are not even queued on that map. We are fighting BG as BG is everywhere. For every 1 TC i see, i see 10 BG. Just because we are not fighting BG near you doesn’t mean we are not fighting BG.

Zephyrus.9680:

Shadowkx.2738:

@ all the i handle thieves just fine posts…
Post the vids. That is all. No more l2p, no more spvp, post the vids of you in WvW handling a decent lvl 80 thief, and no vids of you playing a thief to counter a thief.

I can post links to plenty of vids of thieves handling groups so i just want to see your proof.

Um… You mean like watch any video of any class where they kill a thief? Lol.

Rather than asking for somthing so mundane, just go to WvW and watch any tanky guardian built for small teams who knows what he or she is doing. Or doesn’t… They will win just about 100% of the time even just because retaliation and heals. With equal or even lesser skill, D/D eles will win most of their engagements. So will 1v1 mes if they survive the initial burst (illusions/clones are unaffected by culling), and tanky warriors with the right weapon sets. I don’t know ranger or engineer, those seem weaker vs thieves.

Maybe what you’re seeing most is that thieves always have a 1v1 build because that’s their entire skill set for every weapon (except shortbow I guess). While other classes are generally specced for larger fights which inherently gives them a disadvantage against roaming setups.

What no link… thought as much.

@ all the i handle thieves just fine posts…
Post the vids. That is all. No more l2p, no more spvp, post the vids of you in WvW handling a decent lvl 80 thief, and no vids of you playing a thief to counter a thief.

I can post links to plenty of vids of thieves handling groups so i just want to see your proof.

JaredKincade.9761:

Shadow,

I’m curious, what set of classes do/did you usually see?

An absurd amount of thieves and messers with a couple guardians and eles thrown in for flavor. This match up i have fought more then 1 engineer, been ping ponged around by a group of rangers, gone toe to toe with some fellow warriors and been dotted by a number of necros (which make my rune of generosity not a wasted purchase). Over all i saw a pretty good balance of classes. It just gives the game a different feel.

Actually the rating match ups would be simple to fix if Anet kept one stat. Player hours per match up per server. I am pretty sure that the end score is strongly correlated to the number of player hours spent on the game by each server. The stat would be comparable across tiers something the current scoring system can not do. Just rank the servers by the player hours, their are your new tiers. They could factor in something like points per player hour but i would just start with player hours.

Just wanted to say this has been a great match up. TC and BG i am relieved to see a much more even set of classes. Great fights to all on KBL.

The thief class is a poorly thought out and fails the basic tests of balance for pvp. The pvp side of this game will die and looking back everyone will be able to say it is because of the broken stealth mechanics. For a game that relies on visuals to be played it is surprising they implemented stealth as invisibility rather then some sort of camouflage. Culling makes it worse since there is nothing for you to click on to re-target and there is no target nearest enemy player. You have to go through a whole list of pve trash mobs in wvw and all the ranger/ele/necro pets in spvp. And then they vanish again.

Until Anet wakes up i am done. Every flavor of the month class/build that does not abuse the stealth mechanics is at least fun to play against. Not a single thief build is. For the trolls i am sure they are fun to play which is why you see so many of them popping up here spouting the l2p or you got to build to counter thieves “advice”. The sheer amount of complaints about stealth and the same “advice” popping up should be a clue. And not a single vid of someone saying here is how you counter a thief, without the vid being of a thief.

An interesting test would be for anet where to open a wvw and spvp area that was open to all but thieves i wonder how many would flock to it. Just open a sign up sheet.

There are just too many games out to waste anymore time on one that just does not get it. I am sure this post will not change anyones’ mind but i figured i would let Anet know why i am uninstalled seeing how the web link they give you when you uninstall asking why you are leaving is broken, here it is.

Cya around.

Braxxus.2904:

Hey you, you know who you are. Your definition of “trolling” needs updating because it makes no sense whatsoever.

>:[

Some peoples children.

ANNNNNYWHO:
So…. is there anything going on, or any chance of anything going on worth taking note of at all currently or…?

Most of the regulars I see on the server are logging off to go out, play other games or being bored in PvE/SPvP so I don’t picture very much activity happening on the map. Accurate or are there some decent skirmishes smaller scale fights going on?

As a warrior who started on Kaineng and has been zerged and spawned camped, I suggest you reach out to a couple of others and get a 5 man or 2 going. Make sure you are set up correctly. Plenty of speed buffs, some group invis, a couple of scouts then take supply camps. If you go fast enough you will have the zerg at one camp and smaller groups at the other camps. Pick you fights and be ready to scatter. Your gonna get killed. It will happen since there will be time you think you are getting a small group that turns out to be the vanguard for the zerg. TS or some other voice chat helps a lot.

Sorry if this seems obvious but this is literally how i play wvw for the first few months. It can be a lot of fun. The one thing about being on the losing server is that you get to pick where to fight. Plus there are breakout events to provide a distraction.

Shout out to [Ror] from Ebay in DR BL, we need to duel some more. I need all the practice i can get. Thank you.

Oozo.7856:

Shadowkx.2738:

Oozo.7856:

Ninya.3942:

Oozo.7856:

Here comes honesty. If you don’t like it, I’m sorry.

Kaineng “zergs” have been the easiest to handle in terms of just straight up killing. That goes all the way back to T8 and judging from last night, nothing has changed there. There are just more zerglings to deal with.

Maguuma “zergs” have been the hardest to handle since they have some leaders and scouts that people actually listen to, are on voice together, and act cohesively.

There was nothing honest there, straight up opinion. And as for the spawn campers, most of us wouldn’t do it. We can’t control everyone :P

Me saying that Kaineng zergs have been the easiest for us to handle is a statement of fact. I did not say that Kaineng zergs are the worst in the game. That would have been an opinion.

To summarize:

Me: Our favorite color is blue.
You: That’s not honest, that’s just an opinion!

Some people apparently have trouble with what is and what is not a fact. Your subjective opinion is that Kaineng Zergs are the easiest to kill is not a fact. You would need to post some kind of objective measurement and allow multiple samples before you could indeed say it is a fact. If you think it is indeed easier to kill Kaineng zergs i truly hope you guys come out in force. I need something to do.

It is a FACT that Kaineng zergs have been the easiest for US to kill when compared to other servers we have played. Are you dense? I think we are perfectly qualified to state as a fact what has been easy for US to do and what hard been hard for US to do.

Hint: What I am saying is not the same thing as saying that Kaineng zergs are the easiest zergs to kill in the game.

Words: They mean stuff.

What a funny way to put it. Could you get less technical? Words do in fact mean “stuff” and fact has a very specific meaning which seems to escape you. Your opinion is not a fact and never will be. Sometimes your opinion will align with facts but it will never be a fact because of your opinion. Your statement is nothing less then an attempt to insult an entire server. Which is fine, just don’t get confused on what the word fact actually means.

Oozo.7856:

Ninya.3942:

Oozo.7856:

Here comes honesty. If you don’t like it, I’m sorry.

Kaineng “zergs” have been the easiest to handle in terms of just straight up killing. That goes all the way back to T8 and judging from last night, nothing has changed there. There are just more zerglings to deal with.

Maguuma “zergs” have been the hardest to handle since they have some leaders and scouts that people actually listen to, are on voice together, and act cohesively.

There was nothing honest there, straight up opinion. And as for the spawn campers, most of us wouldn’t do it. We can’t control everyone :P

Me saying that Kaineng zergs have been the easiest for us to handle is a statement of fact. I did not say that Kaineng zergs are the worst in the game. That would have been an opinion.

To summarize:

Me: Our favorite color is blue.
You: That’s not honest, that’s just an opinion!

Some people apparently have trouble with what is and what is not a fact. Your subjective opinion is that Kaineng Zergs are the easiest to kill is not a fact. You would need to post some kind of objective measurement and allow multiple samples before you could indeed say it is a fact. If you think it is indeed easier to kill Kaineng zergs i truly hope you guys come out in force. I need something to do.

Adaneshade.2409:

Plus, I disagree 100% with the unbalanced. Most people just fail at PvP. If I can kill a level 80 P/D thief on a level 14 melee ranger in 1v1 (strongest vs what ppl argue to be weakest 1v1 classes) then, yes, it is indeed a skill problem.

Vid or it didn’t happen…

This game is not balanced for 1v1 and there is no where that it is set up for 1v1. Get over the fact you will get run over in WvW from time to time. Honestly i would like to see Anet simply add a 1v1 ladder in the mists and get all the “I am the greatest” players out of WvW so there are room for players that want to be doing WvW.

thanks for the vids. I think they demonstrate the different between the skill caps between the classes. That ele was very good, kept all his skills on cool down and used the map space. You will notice the ele vid was uncut, whereas the warrior vids where montages. all i can say is i think i rolled the wrong class. maybe time to start a 3rd character.

Arekai.5698:

My traits are 20/25/0/0/25 for maximum Damage.
My armor is imbued with Damage runes, my weapon too.

Added a screenshot of my combat log.

and gear? because i hit more then that and i don’t trait for pure damage.

There is no context here. What are your traits? What gear do you have? Why aren’t you showing the combat log?

Archonis.7249:

The last two comments just make me sad as a gamer.

Let’s take out the core mechanic of a class because I think that it is too hard and the removal makes it easier for ME.

Your comment makes me sad as a gamer. Instead of pushing for an evenly balanced set of classes to choose from, you defend a broken mechanic of your favorite class so that you can continue to abuse the advantage it gives.

Chiolas.1326:

Something you should add: Go to a low tier server and do the jumping puzzle/PvE there, then if you decide to stick to WvW help that server to win the weekly matches!

I am not sure i would take this advice. If you join tier 8, two of the servers are basically being spawn camped and any indication that there is an enemy player around anywhere on the map, will bring a number of dominating server’s players running as there is nothing else going on. Same thing is true on any tier where the match up is unbalanced.

Akumu.7238:

Schwahrheit.4203:

^
You also fail to realize that (Also the fact that you can’t admit that you are low skill) Warriors only need a little tweak. Not an over-buff. A balanced class simply needs small tweaks to be on par with the “broken” ones. Simple as that.

You on the other hand sounds like you want everything to be handed to you on a silver platter.

What are you talking about? Have you reduced yourself to trolling and throwing out random bullkitten these days?

I took it as he was seconding what you said and adding his comment to it and it was directed at lifelike… but i can see where might take it as directed at you. Perhaps he should clarify.

The funny thing about this thread is the OP was not QQing but letting the developers know why his circle of friends were leaving the game. All the thieves on here QQing about l2p and thieves have been nerfed enough are not getting it. There will be no one left to play the game because people are leaving. They are leaving because it is not fun. Wonder how much fun the game will be when it is just a bunch of invisible people running around trying to find someone to gank…..

I’ll just put it this way… Chaster is on my short list of commanders I will follow when he is on the map. I play NA prime time mostly so I only see him on weekends. He knows what he is doing and picks high value targets to attack. He has a good plan of attack and is not so ego driven that he will not adjust if the situation changes. In our tier to actually win the match you you are better off not spending hours ramming your zerg into the enemy zerg. Attack where you enemy is weak, defend where you are strong. There is a reason why his PvE guild follows him so willingly in WvW. I don’t know why other Kaineng player have a problem with him or SoS.

Break out event is horribly broken. The NPC commander will glitch through the door even when it never gets taken down and he can solo the tower. So now we have NPCs taking towers for us…

There needs to be a better balance of some kind. But adding NPC to it is not helping. It really should be something that forces the 2 servers getting beat on to team up on the dominating server. Free transfers has got to end and once they are gone the ranking of all the servers need to be reviewed. Maybe go back to the daily matches until the rankings are more representative of the player base. The current ratings are based on populations the no longer exist as they did when the server earned their ranking. While stopping the free transfers will not result in perfect balance, it will reduce the wild swings we see now. When a guild transfers to a server the server they left is weakened and the server the join is strengthened.

LegoTechnic.5910:

You have to remember just how Kaineng played in WvW. Kain may not have been able to field masses of players all the time, but they were almost always there; someone was taking camps somewhere, and it was a very rare window when Kaineng was completely inactive. This stands in contrast even to FC, who had obvious “dead times” where you could jump between all the maps and hardly even see a single one (a single camp-party at best). It was often these moments that Kain found itself against the direct focus of DR’s attention, and likewise it was Kain’s constant interjection that often pulled DR out of places like FC’s borderlands. It’s no mistake that FC’s bl fell on Wednesday at times when Kaineng’s presence had dropped, nor is it coincidental how previous weekly incursions into FC were diverted and destroyed when Kain took advantage to either retake EB southeast or FC bl’s southern towers (which is actually the sort of stuff that makes Wv3 awesome). You may not have been the largest zerg in the swarm, but you were always there poking, and it was only for the last two weeks when drama-splosions hit you internally that your overall presence was seriously lacking.

My experience with Kain is that they are tenacious kittens that continually stab you when you start looking north, whereas FC would completely pull out and wait for a more vulnerable moment before striking with gusto.

I’ll end this post saying I liked both Kain and FC as opponents and I feel I learned a lot from them (I completely duplicated some of the siege set-up of FC’s bl keeps, as well as organized a very Kaineng-style supply camp defense based off very troublesome encounters with them). That said, I am completely rooting for ET because FC/Kain will always be red jerks to me. <3

It does seem we have a solid numbers advantage this weekend. This has always been our strongest time. It will be interesting to see how the week progresses and see if we are still leading.

I think FC are a very solid group of players. I really hate running across their small groups as i always get blind sided when i think i have a 1v1 going. My experience with FC in their bl was they set their goal as controlling that and they met it. In this match up they are holding their bl and constantly making a good push in EB. We can’t hold EB for more then a tick or two before they really give a solid push back and take towers up to our keep.

Not sure what to think of ET yet. When they are on they push pretty good on EB.

Good luck finding your right tier Devs. I enjoyed fighting you guys. I still recall the days when we were friends by the enemy of my enemy is my friend philosophy. In those days we rarely saw one another due to being locked down by the evil greens. Hey with free transfers in effect still maybe one day we will share the battle field again.

Junkhaus.4301:

Kaineng, go back to your t8 forum. Your stalking us is really disturbing. Honestly I’ve had enough of you guys commenting on this thread that you have nothing to do with. We are done with your server, we do not miss you. I’ve slain plenty of kains in 1v3s, so what? Is that something special? Adult Magazine, all you have going for yourself is being anonymous and claiming to 1v5. This thread has become more about Kaineng wanting attention than it is about this current match. Kaineng, for the last time

Go Away

Open forums, dude… open forum!!!!

Gikeuri.8029:

Dude Storm I’m sorry but it’s already been discussed and obviously said it wasn’t the numbers. Numbers IN WvW ACTUALLY Wvwing? Maybe, sure, I’ll give you that, but it wasn’t SERVER population for various reasons already brought up in the past. The reason for Kain’s giant surge is because we did in fact move up, a server kinda gets demoralized after losing for 2 months, now they’re giving it a go again since we left, Kain always had the numbers it just quit trying and decided to wait until we weren’t here anymore.

As a Kaineng play i would really like to know where all these numbers are? They are not in WvW… they are not in Ore… they are not at the dungeons…. they are not at the fractals… so where are they? Unless you are talking about a primetime outside of US.

Rolled up a thief. By lvl 24 (all in wvw) it is clear this class is broken. The only times i have been downed is when i stop for a teammate who over extended. Otherwise the fight ends when i say it ends. I get away clean, even if i try a fight i can’t win. There is no risk at all. The wild swings at nothing are quite amusing but stealth is a hard counter to everything. It is not hard to dodge enemy attacks in the first place. It is even easier to dodge when the enemy can not see which way you are moving.

Every other class has to risk being downed when they initiate combat. Thieves can just reset the fight. That i think is the source of the problem. Stealth done wrong yet again. When will companies stop adding a stealth class? Anet didn’t even bother to add a counter to it at all.

Devonian’s was only the lowest rated server for what 1 week?

Thieves======>Mesmers==>everything else.

Thieves just feel cheap. The battle is never good win or lose. Mesmers in the hands of a good player with one of the mass clone builds is just as bad, luckly good mesmers are hard to find.

Every other class feels like there was a battle. Those 2 just feel like you were trolled. It comes mostly down the their ability to break the target lock. So many skill require a target lock to work properly and those 2 classes get a free pass to break a core game mechanic.

Drednyte.7601:

@Ferg/Kain

Whoever takes DR’s spot in T8 I almost feel sorry for them. These past 9 weeks all 3 of us have been giving each other some darn good fights. I’ve seen all 3 servers grow in teamwork/coordination/skill. Ton more defensive playing when required than 9 weeks back. The other server may be dropping down, but its not dropping into a bracket of “losers with no skills”. They’re going to get a very nasty surprise when they hit the field against you 2. If they’re thinking they were tier-whatever and stepping down to the bottom is going to equate to them owning the tier, oh man. I fully expect to see whichever server it is to hit dead last the first week. And i’d imagine a ton of QQs in the forums from them.

Hats off to all of your skills and guilds working together. We’ve had our forum fights and Wv3 fights….but I’m proud to say of all the tiers ive been in, all the fights ive bled in…fighting both of you have been by far the best of them all. Upper tiers may have more people, better communication/teamwork,, more hardcore Wv3rs. But none have the heart, dedication, and pride shown down here in T8.

PS: i still say if we combined the best of all 3 servers onto one…we’d be a force to be feared!

A complement with no back handed weasel wording….. i am in shock… all i can say is best of luck in your new tier.

I liked this version better then the previous based on tonight’s game play. Zerg rushing up showed up for once even though it looked to me like i was with 1/2 the number i know was there. If nothing else it should increase the “There we were 5 v 500 and we won” stories.

KwayZee.5742:

Darwin has been nothing but nice to everyone on here. LARP guild is best guild? Who needs the tutor?

If you need tutored on how to actually win 1 week of WvW I am sure PRO can tutor you on that.

Does it go something like this?
1. Join high pop server and recruit like crazy
2. Transfer large guild to the least populated tier
3. ???
4. Win

Max Castle.6173:

Please, Big K Stay Stand and Fight!!!!!

so many of you just run if its not 5 on 1

Flag [PRO]
DR

Sorry about that… but if there are not 5 Devs to every Kain then is not worth the time to actually do the fight…

I would ignore Drednyte he is just a very verbose troll. Implying that Kaineng does not earn its point except from massive zergs that he single handily destroys is nothing more then flame bait. Every server here earns it points. All of them have their zergs and small groups. I have seen all three servers have the out manned buff usually in the order of Freg, Kaineng, DR. This varies by day and time of day. At the moment it look like DR is going to pull ahead and move out of this tier but that can change in a day depending on the server transfers, it’s first week in this tier Freg crushed DR and Kain. Now not so much.

To those whom I have good fights with, salute! To the zergs, come to my cannons… to the rest, see you around.

I am sorry but i don’t see the problem with the protected buff at the spawn. It wears off before any objective. It is simple enough to avoid chasing people into their spawn that i don’t see why it is an issue. Unless there is an objective that i am unaware of?

As for the jumping to your death, it does not deprive your attackers of badges. If they have hit you and then you die, you leave a loot bag that can have any of the wvw loot in it, including badges. If you jump before anyone can hit you, well that is just funny. Even funny if people follow you over…