Guild Wars 2

2g consumable I see you.

Vornollo.5182:

No, just no.
While I (and I think everyone who ever played thief) agree that our defensive aspects needs some serious work, the change you propose won’t work.
Maybe if Shadow’s Rejuvenation was 50% effective during revealed (but 100% during Stealth) then sure, I could agree with your proposed SA changes.

As for Escapist Absolution, I very much prefer it in the way it currently is. It rewards Skilful gameplay which aids in bringing back our old “high risk, high reward” shape. Besides, your proposition would actually nerf the access to condi cleanse by a lot.

So no.
Great that you’re thinking about ways of improving the thief class, but this won’t do.

My object isn’t really to ask for a nerf to Shadow’s Rejuvenation in general, but the fact is that Shadow’s Rejuvenation has historically been a point of contention among the people who complain about Thief. The main reason I suggested a 50% reduction is to prevent that from happening again. Besides, numbers can always be tweaked. If 50% is too weak, then 75% could work too. 100% in stealth and 50% out of stealth is also a viable option. That’s not really the important part. The important thing is that external Reveal application isn’t as devastating for a Thief using Stealth, especially in regards to Shadow’s Embrace.

I realize that the entire point of “on successful dodge” was to promote skilled gameplay, including the Feline Grace nerf, but given my point of “conditions are too punishing for a lowest-health class”, I would choose reliability over a short duration over more chances over a long duration. Given the tick damage of Burning and Confusion, I would still choose that unless more priority is put on those two conditions per successful dodge (as of now, Confusion seems to have lower priority than vulnerability).

I’m aware that this is a bit long-winded and does not necessarily provide any new ideas. However, coming from a Thief, I want to address a few problems thoroughly and hopefully simple and effective solutions to those problems in the current state of Thief and its interactions with stealth, reveal, and conditions. A TL;DR will be provided at the end if you so desire.

So, going into the expansion and where things seem like they might be adjusted, I wanted to bring some not-so new ideas to the table again and how I think they would fit in currently with the state of Thief.

I think by now anyone who reads the thief forums at all realize that there are plenty of issues with where Thief is right now, balance-wise in a PvP setting. Granted, a lot of it is exaggerated and there is certainly a lot of complaining for the sake of complaining, but at the end of the day, I don’t think anyone can doubt that a lot of other classes have gotten stronger with each balance patch while Thief has either stagnated or been hammered. I’m looking at you, Feline Grace.

Nevertheless, I do think that Thief isn’t necessarily in as bad of a spot as people might say. Thief has been given a lot of options in place of passive strength. It has access to some of the strongest mechanics such as stealth and shadowsteps.

The issue is, it seems like one thing in particular is no longer okay with the balance team, and that is stealth. With more and more reveal applications being tossed around, targeted and untargeted, it seems one of Thief’s main defensive mechanics is now eliminated against many classes. Scrapper, for example, has a low CD reveal that renders Shadow Refuge completely ineffective. Now, I know there are a lot of people out there that hate stealth and any time spent more than a few seconds is “camping”. But at the end of the day, the only two trait options given to thief including the Daredevil specialization defensively are evades and stealth.

If stealth becomes unviable against multiple classes, then all that’s left is evades. That in itself isn’t necessarily the end of the world. I used to play Acro thief before the specialization update. But I do think that the thief has always had the issue of relying on stealth if they didn’t choose Acro (now DD), and I think that’s one of the things that has landed the class in the situation it’s in right now.

Which is why first I bring up this old idea: Traits that are active in stealth are active while revealed. Shadow’s Rejuvenation healing is reduced by 50%.

Now I think this addresses two things. Against classes with no reveal, Shadow’s Rejuvenation is not as incredibly strong, which I’m aware is a complaint with the Shadow Arts line in general. It’ll take more time for a Thief to “reset” a fight, and invest more into doing so. On the other hand, a Thief running the Shadow Arts line is not completely shut down by one or two skills.

I know that the game isn’t balanced around duels, but for the sake of an example, I bring up a fight against a condition Engineer that I experienced a while back. They led with an Analyze (which a condi Engi has no reason to play other than to 1v1 a Thief) which applied 6 seconds of reveal, and then applied the standard conditions. Some were cleared with Shadowstep, but still multiple damaging conditions stuck. After 6 seconds, I tried a stealth, but along with Aim-Assisted Rocket and Lock-On, that was quickly removed and more damaging conditions were applied. In total, 12 seconds of reveal were applied, and with a health pool as low as a Thief’s, that’s more than enough time for conditions to kill.

Now I’m okay with Engineer being a difficult fight for Thief. It always has been for many. However, no other class is treated quite like this. With one instant skill and two passive traits, a Thief was killed by passive conditions and autoattacks. Something about that strikes me as not okay.

The Shadow Arts change would address that handily. Even given one of the consistent condition removals in the game (Shadow’s Embrace), it is still one of the few options that Thief has to remove conditions. With Shadow’s Embrace being active while revealed, a 12 second reveal is no longer a death sentence, but also doesn’t allow the thief to get the “drop” on someone (see: Meet the Scrapper: Engineer’s Elite Specialization).

This brings up conditions as a whole with regards to Thief. Since Thief has been given the lowest current health pool, damaging conditions are especially punishing in %health per tick terms. A few stacks of burning can kill a Thief without expending half of the applied duration.

Which brings me to my next idea: Escapist’s Absolution now removes one condition on dodge roll instead of a successful evade.

This makes the trait more reliable. Now, a thief can choose when to remove a condition rather than relying on the enemy to attack and then evade it. This prevents a single condition bomb and then not attacking again from killing a Daredevil, but to compensate, it will no longer trigger on weapon set evades.

Basically, I think that these two changes would make both reveal less devastating for stealth users, one of two defensive options for thief, and conditions from being as punishing on a class with the lowest possible health pool. I won’t comment on any other changes to thief as a whole, but these two issues are the most glaring problems in the state of Thief currently in my opinion.

TL;DR: Reveal and conditions are far too punishing for a Thief currently with its two defensive trait theme options.
Changes: Shadow’s Rejuvenation and Shadow’s Embrace now are active while revealed. Shadow’s Rejuvenation is 50% as effective.
Escapist’s Absolution now activates on dodge roll instead of all successful evades.

Thoughts? Issues?

I know there are a bunch of other threads about DD, but a friend and I decided to show why exactly we thought the DD spec feels as bad as the forums seem to be saying.

First video is a comparison of the new DD GM dodge rolls compared to the normal dodge roll:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF4zPIUGj9c
In regards to the dodge rolls specifically, the reason the word “clunky” and “stuck” is coming up so much seems to be because of aftercasts. Just moving forward and dodging emphasizes how much the aftercast affects movement, for both the Bound and Lotus dodges (aftercast is about the same with Dash, but can’t really be shown that way).
I’m not entirely sure if this is intended or not, but the aftercasts of the dodges as well as most of the skills on Staff breaks up the normally fluid thief movement to something really noticeable.

Second video is really nothing I really needed to show, but the stated distance on Staff 2 and 3 don’t seem to be consistent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3JnX90OzRY
If 450 range on Heartseeker is to be believed, then the 450 range stated on Staff 2 and 400 range on Staff 3 seem to be false. Again, not sure if this is intended and the tooltips are simply wrong, but personally, I’d like to see Staff mobility increased significantly, simply because I can’t find a reason to take Staff over Shortbow currently.

So as far as feedback goes, I figure the augmented dodge rolls could be smoothed out a bit, removing the aftercast to make them feel like the normal dodge roll. On top of that, staff mobility could be increased and perhaps also smoothed out a bit?

Thoughts along these lines?

So, at the risk of being super nitpicky..

Is there anyone else that thinks the “dash” animation of the Daredevil dodge augment would be more usable as the actual current dodge animation, just a longer range and a trail?

Animation-wise, it’s easier to combo off of the dodge animation than it is the Warrior’s greatsword Rush animation, simply due to it being a visual queue rather than a time queue.

This is not at all because I find the dash animation to be a little silly for a dodge.

..Okay maybe a little.

Phaeton.9582:

power ranger will dominate full glass ele

\o/

Kyon.9735:

Sarcastic question: Since when were warriors afraid of immobilize, chill, and cripple?

Since always. Why do you think so many warriors take Dogged March, Melandru runes, and -Condi food?

It was a big source of complaint before the addition of Dogged March.

Warriors tend to take all three because they tend to need it. Other classes can do it too, but they don’t need to, or rather it’s not their strongest setup.

I’m not going to try to debate on balance, but just to answer your question, full melee warriors have always been “afraid of” and weak to soft CC. That’s the nature of full melee, and is why Dogged March was added in the first place.

Edit: For the record so I don’t seem like I’m trying to derail the thread, I also think RTL’s non-contact CD is way too high right now.

I’d say D/P to compliment P/D for the escape power, but that’s getting nerfed, so I’d say Shortbow. The poison field’s nice since you don’t have that much poison uptime, which is important for condi pressure. Also, decent escape with #5.

In regards to armor, I’d stick with Dire. I tried Rabid, but you lose too much health for mediocre crits, and I personally don’t like Carrion because of the lack of toughness. The idea is attrition, not killing power. I think that’s what P/D excels at, because it doesn’t do much direct damage at all.

Qaelyn.7612:

Shadowscamp, I’ve changed builds a number of times. I was in WvW last night using a PD/DD build, either with dire or carrion gear. Just yellows and greens, I can’t afford to start dropping gold on exotics until I figure out a build. The one I was using is a condition build so low crit damage… it’s the Laela Blackbird build, which I thought might better suit me since I usually prefer defensive play, and it’s got good toughness and vitality.

More than that, I need practice.. a lot of practice.

I figured as much.

I do recommend you fully gearing yourself up for P/D first. As others have said, it’s easiest to learn, and in my experience, an almost unkillable roaming build. Without proper gear, you’ll always feel weak in WvW, though I always gear up my characters immediately once I get to 80, so I may be biased.

Qaelyn.7612:

-Snip-

Hm.. Are you fully geared up? What’s your critdamage and power? You should be able to make them some people panic if you open right.

Qaelyn.7612:

Funny the difference between theory and reality.

Went into WvW with my guild today and was in a small raiding group (awesome.. just what I wanted to do!) And I realized.. I need my shortbow! The teleport alone is essential. So that sort of did away with the PD+DD or PD+DP decision, at least for this role.

I got into a couple of 1v1 fights which went.. poorly. LOL It really is going to take a while, eh? Of course in this role dying frequently is par for the course… but still, I just sort of panic when I realize I am actually fighting.

I think the thing you have to understand is that the fight is mostly on your terms. You open when you want. You disappear when you want. Try and keep that kind of power over your opponent. When your health gets low, get out and reposition, but know that the nature of stealth means that you can control the a situation more easily. Learn your limits and you won’t be afraid to engage.

swinsk.6410:

D/P is better than D/D. I think Yishis just likes D/D better which is why he uses it. He sacrifices damage for more HP though with his armor stats. A D/P in the current game can run full berserkers and do just as well as Yishis and hit harder with condi removal because the blinds come from the weaponset.

D/P has a much higher skill cap though. You can do well with it as a noob, but to do extremely well with it requires a lot of practice because you have 5 viable skills vs. 2-3 from D/D.

As a dueling spec, D/P is stronger than D/D, and is actually almost a direct counter to D/D due to blind spam. However, in group play it’s not as viable. It’s slower and relies on a stealth field, rather than stealth wherever you have a target. On top of that, it does a bit less spike damage so it’s less useful for taking out big targets quickly.

When things get confusing, it’s safer, but not as effective mainly because your Backstab is not as quick. CnD → Backstab is faster than Black Powder → Heartseeker → Backstab.

Also, with D/D, the only skill that doesn’t really have a place is Death Blossom. Cripple is very useful.

So it’s preference and philosophy of use, rather than “better” or “worse”. If you’re looking to duel, D/P is the stronger set. If you’re looking for overall effectiveness, D/D is stronger in my opinion.

Qaelyn.7612:

Funny ChapDev as I was going to ask where the condition removal was in that build because I didn’t see any. I guess he’s just so good he knows how much damage he can take and when to disengage etc.

I took the Yishis D/D build into PvP to duel with a friend just now, the one with the axe warrior. Ugh, it was awful. I was better at not immediately dying, at least most of the time. But he still thrashed me pretty soundly. The best I got was forcing him to heal.. that’s it.

I think if I met him in a dark alley (so to speak) I could probably harrass him and live long enough to get away. But I could never beat him. The problem is that when I move in to backstab, I often miss. Even if I hit, I don’t do a ton of damage, and then his damage utterly destroys me.

I realize warriors are OP in general and so this is something of a torture test for a thief (and a bad one at that). But how in general do you deal with the heavy melee output? In particular he was using axe #5 to obliterate me. Sure, I can shadowstep out, but axe #5 has a 20s cooldown and shadowstep has a 50s cooldown. So after a half minute or so I am usually with everything on cooldown and then I die.

I also had a theory that his build may not translate into PvP because of the lower damage figures. It seems to rely on quick bursts of heavy damage to take players down, with crits of several K. I can’t get that even with a berserker’s amulet because there are no stats on the other gear in PvP. Is this an accurate assessment?

You are correct, backstab doesn’t really work that well in PvP. Direct damage is significantly lower there, while defenses are not. It works much better in WvW.

To combat melee, I’d take the blind on stealth trait. I run blind on stealth + condition removal on stealth. Blind on stealth is extremely powerful, and I don’t really feel the need for Infusion of Shadow. It’s up to you, though. I’d take condition removal on stealth over blind on stealth if need Infusion of Shadow, though. The condition removal is almost required in this condition meta.

Qaelyn.7612:

Okay so here’s what I don’t get about DD+PD. PD’s auto-attack is ranged but its #3 is melee and then ranged. If I start in DD I can melee, then use PD get out of melee if things get too hot.. but then the opponent closes to melee and I can’t switch back to DD. If I start in PD, I don’t know how to make good use of Shadow Strike.

In a PvP setting, there’s really no good reason right now to be in D/D if you’re doing conditions, and the same goes for P/D if you’re doing power. If you’re still looking at the build I linked for you in the other thread, I included D/D because it’s applicable in PvE, as Death Blossom is a pretty good PvE skill. It’s not so useful in PvP.

Just stay in P/D. Get in close, get out. Despite being “ranged”, P/D playstyle is a close-medium ranged style since if you don’t use Shadow Strike, you don’t do enough damage to kill someone. Stay close, but not so close when you’re not using Shadow Strike so that they have a hard time hitting you.

Qaelyn.7612:

Very interesting build, different from what I’ve seen before. Thanks!

Would you be willing to do me a favor and explain what sorts of attack sequences you use, when you use key skills etc? This is what I have a lot of troubler with as a newbie.. I spec out a new build, and then I get out there and have no idea what to do. Anything, even brief, would be useful.

Uhm.. Pre-cast CnD and use Steal mid-cast. Unless they dodge, it’s a good initiate. Then stay close-ish to them and use Sneak Attack (Pistol 1 from stealth) with Skale Venom. Then once that’s done, use 3 on them for the Torment. It’s a decent damage spike. That’s basically the rotation. 5 → 1 → 3. 2 and 4 aren’t very useful. Caltrops on dodge are very nice for kiting and continuing your damage.

Also, I’d recommend learning to quick-reverse camera to Withdraw forward. Very useful tool.

Qaelyn.7612:

Shadowscamp, may I ask what your build is? I’m looking for something newbie-friendly for scouting/annoyance in WvW, with maybe some light PvE stuff as well. I doubt I’ll ever be able to actually kill anyone but not immediately dying would be nice.

I’m assuming you’re asking about P/D since D/D backstab is pretty squish. But I run basically the same build of the guy who plays Laela Blackbird on Youtube. Uh… I run.. This: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY4YlYmKN3eS6E9JFB3Dna0m6p4rjVXQ/BuC-j0xAouBRTBGEdmsIas1sioxqZwUsER1eEMpAgZOA-w

The gear’s pretty new-gear friendly. I didn’t use any ascended things or anything, and I believe the Sigils of Agony do stack, though if someone has tested otherwise, then you could take a Sigil of Bursting as well.

That’s my build for WvW, but you can switch out some things depending on preference for PvE. Caltrops are a good utility for PvE instead of Skale Venom.

You get a lot of dodges, stealth, and high defense. The survivability is incredible. I think it’s good practice to get your eye in for CnD. If you want to kill people, though, be sure to use Skale Venom on Sneak Attack out of stealth and don’t be afraid to use #3, though also don’t over-use it or else you’ll run out of initiative.

Zacchary.6183:

-Snip-

While I do agree that it’d be more fun to see more builds viable-ish, there are currently two quite good ones. Full Dire P/D and some form of backstab. I hate D/P, but I love D/D. I started playing with P/D as my second roaming build, and it’s almost invincible, if somewhat low on damage output. I just feel so powerful on my thief. You can’t get overwhelmed by multiple “bad” players using skills at random like you can on a Warrior. If they’re inexperienced, you can take all of them down almost with impunity. I’m mostly a solo player myself, and I just don’t see the Thief being weak, playing mostly with D/D right now.

It’s sad for S/X since that’s what I started playing first, but maybe they’ll start working on Sword dual skills after the patch?

Carmela.8756:

Ranger is also a rogue class but still better viable in frontline and he is a range class but can also fight melee. its all right what you say but i have stopped to think in archetypes.Thiefs are also not really assasins they are thiefs ;-) In Guild Wars 2 there isn’t a Trinity and its not ok that a class is banned from a part of the game.
Like Grebcol say in a other thread,guilds searching most for Warriors,Necros and Guardians,and not only one looking for thief,.i think that says all that something is wrong in the design here.(Same problem also with dungeons)

Ranger is not at all viable in the frontline. Just as fragile as thief if he wants to do any damage to a zerg yet has no stealth. You’ll find none of them in a WvW guild’s ideal comp, not in this meta. They are in fact even less “wanted” in a guild group because a Thief does a specific job better. Guilds sometimes advertise for 1 “good” thief, either for scouting or to place a poison field on the enemy zerg, or even as a spammable blast finisher.

Most rangers you find running in a big group are random players that a group picked up. A “serious” guild group rarely has one or wants one.

So for a run-down of a “serious” balanced medium-sized guild comp in the meta right now running builds (from what I’ve seen):
3-4 Full Healing Guardians
3-4 Hammer Warriors (builds vary)
3-4 Power Well Necromancers
2-3 Staff Elementalists
1-2 Mesmers for veils + null fields
1-2 Engineers maybe for spammable conditions in smaller fights
1 Thief for scouting

Obviously, these will vary, and you’ll run heavy in one class or another, but that’s generally the current meta.

You’ll not find any of these classes “banned” from any game mode. I doubt you meant that literally, but the Thief no doubt has more of a defined role than a Ranger, who you’ll find usually sits far back and uses Barrage. Powermancers do more AoE damage with Wells and Eles have better combo fields. Does that mean you can’t play a ranger? Obviously, no. The role just isn’t as well-defined in a large WvW group. You can make it work for yourself, just like you can make a thief work. Thief shortbow is tagging made easy.

You can’t separate a “class” system and “archetypes”. ANet diluted it with self-heals and “no trinity”, but don’t be fooled. Classes are designed to be different and better at some things than others. That’s the appeal.

Thief can’t and never could do frontline damage tanking.. And to be honest, Thief not being able to do something another class does makes up a lot of the whining I see on these forums. “Thief can’t take frontline damage and still deal out decent damage like a warrior. Thief can’t do as much AoE damage like a Necro. Thief can’t support like a Guardian”.

Let’s be clear here: the Thief is not a Warrior. Thief is not a Necromancer. Thief is not a Guardian. And while we’re at it, it’s not any of the other classes either. That’s not the class design. It’s a thief, rogue, assassin, whatever you want to call it.

I’ve played Warrior since I started this game last year, but I finished my thief a few months ago and have been playing it almost exclusively in WvW when I’m not with my guild on WvW nights when I need to do a different job. I roamed on my Warrior way back when, but since my axe build got nerfed, it hasn’t felt the same since, so I switched to thief roaming once I finished it. It’s startling how much more powerful I feel than on my Warrior.

In massive zergs, the Thief is not a great choice. But was it ever? No. It’s fragile and doesn’t have great AoE. But again, the class design hasn’t changed. If you want sturdiness, AoE, or support, you should’ve picked a different class in the first place.

However, almost no other class augments the power of a small group as much as a good thief does, maybe debatable against Guardian or an aura-share Ele. With the distractions of other players around, a backstab power thief can easily do its job and dance around eliminating targets. A great example of that is what Mugi does in his small groups. By the very nature of stealth, either your opponent ignores your teammates and takes more pressure from them to try and find you, or you pass in and out of sight killing people. That’s incredibly powerful, and even if insta-kill Haste+Mug → CnD → Backstab → Heartseekers has been nerfed, your kill potential may be even higher without you blowing all your cooldowns in one go. You must be patient.

I’m not gonna argue about ease of use. Warrior isn’t a hard class to figure out. I still very much enjoy the “screw your gimmicks, I’ll chop you with my axe” style and I will likely never fully put my Warrior down, but as far as potential scaling with experience goes, a Thief’s so much higher than a Warrior’s.

In WvW group play, small group or peripheral target elimination is the “role” of the thief. In a medium-sized group (~15-20), get around the hammer train, take the ranged damage dealers out of the fight, and survive. I won’t say it’s the easiest job, but it’s very powerful in the right hands. Any larger groups than that and you’re looking at a different class philosophy, and it shouldn’t be something you expected from an assassin archetype.

TL;DR: In a good group, the role of a thief hasn’t changed. People are just looking in the wrong places for inspiration.

GabGar.4962:

Shadowscamp.8065:

GabGar.4962:

And for all Dragonbrand, you should be ashamed you are losing in this way after you were a great server. Bark all you want, your server is in ruins, period.

I’ll be honest. Your posts are slightly confusing to me in reply to all the things posted against you.

Are you slightly ill? Are you 10? I kind of feel bad for feeding you right now, but I honestly want to know. What’s wrong?

Shame is something that’s reserved for those who shout of their power, then are shown truly how weak they are. I watched the GvG’s. It wasn’t even close.

To clarify, I don’t mean that as anything but a public service announcement of sorts. I have no stake in GvG’s, but If you’re called out on your posturing, be sure you can back it up, or else it’s a much better idea to make no sound at all.

So at the risk of repeating myself, does something ail you?

Nope, I’m fine and how are you?

Well that’s a bit more worrying. I was hoping it was something that I could help with.

I never said that, Tomas.

GabGar.4962:

And for all Dragonbrand, you should be ashamed you are losing in this way after you were a great server. Bark all you want, your server is in ruins, period.

I’ll be honest. Your posts are slightly confusing to me in reply to all the things posted against you.

Are you slightly ill? Are you 10? I kind of feel bad for feeding you right now, but I honestly want to know. What’s wrong?

Shame is something that’s reserved for those who shout of their power, then are shown truly how weak they are. I watched the GvG’s. It wasn’t even close.

To clarify, I don’t mean that as anything but a public service announcement of sorts. I have no stake in GvG’s, but If you’re called out on your posturing, be sure you can back it up, or else it’s a much better idea to make no sound at all.

So at the risk of repeating myself, does something ail you?

I.. Wouldn’t say “good”. I’d say if you build around it, it has a purpose, and yes, it still does pretty high damage. But that requires the right gear and the ability to land it, which isn’t something that I can quantify. Against a class that has high evades or other damage avoidance abilities, you’re not gonna be landing that many eviscerates, and then you’re open to a lot of damage in the interim. More situational than optimal.

The raw numbers aren’t really the main problem. Eviscerate still certainly has the potential to hit very hard. Again, it’s the usability. Unless your build revolves around Eviscerate and getting those big hits off, then most people would ask why use axe at all? I still use it, I still like it. It’s just that the weapon is so much less potent than it used to be/should be because of that huge backload on the autoattack damage.

And yes, I believe that most agree that offhand axe isn’t where it should be. I was under the impression that you were questioning complaints about axe in general.

As I recall, there hasn’t been “QQ” or even any discussion so much as a single new thread that I brought up, especially among the hammer jammer threads in recent months. A new thread in which you also could have replied in instead of posting a new one. However, I’ll bring up some of my opinions on the subject.

The problem is the usability and therefore function of the weapon. As far as function goes, I feel it’s designed as: good sustained damage, minimal mobility, minimal CC. It fulfills the sustained damage role well in PvE as it is now. Enemies sit there and let you attack them, and the last hit of triple chop can hit quite hard, but if you talk about usability, it’s not something that can be counted on in any PvP setting.

Previous to the auto chain change, it was approximately equal damage on all hits of the chain, and that fit the role of the weapon (as I see it at least). Sustained damage. It did that job great, and now it doesn’t. It’s now an unreliable weapon with an ‘unsafe’ playstyle. i.e., trying to stick to an opponent who has a large amount of ways to prevent you from doing that and still hurt you. This in contrast with the P/D Dire thief playstyle, which is extremely ‘safe’, even if it’s an unpopular weapon set now despite its strength.

While it’s true that other weapons usually have a harder-hitting third-chain hit, the chain is also usually much shorter, and all your hard work, sticking to your opponent and getting through that axe chain, will not be negated by a single dodge. And for the axe, it’s not the 3rd hit like “any other weapon”. It’s the 6th. I have no problem with the limited CC and mobility of the weapon. I actually prefer the style. However, I find the auto chain change both unnecessary and almost kitten ing to the weapon on the warrior in terms of PvP, even though I still use it.

As far as the other weapon skills go, I’ve lived with them so long that I don’t really want to make an opinion on them. But honestly, if you completely dismiss the offhand axe with a “take a shield”, what does that say about offhand axe?

Edit: Gosh darnit. The word’s in the Bible. Why is it censored here?

I just wanted to bring back the axe as a point of discussion. Does anyone else besides me still run axe mainhand? It’s so rare to see another one in WvW nowadays.

My opinion is that the change to the auto chain was unnecessary after the Triple Chop cancel fix. I mean, as a weapon, the Axe was designed to be aggressive and short-ranged, which I like. But right now that’s a fairly dangerous playstyle in the midst of ranged condition loading and the “reward” isn’t reliable. Can anyone give a definitive reason as to why that change was made and hasn’t been addressed other than “axe is useless now”?

This isn’t a new topic, I’m sure, but I’d like to get some opinions (and maybe answers) as to why exactly the auto chain for the Axe was changed as much as it was.

Way back when it was changed, I can’t seem to remember any complaints, balance-wise, about the chain, and I trawled the forums much more often back then. I recall the number crunchers doing the math on overall DPS and the canceling of triple-chop and it turned out that canceling it gave you more DPS. However, that was also back when triple-chop was able to be canceled by pressing 1 during the chain. Now that they’ve changed that, I can’t seem to find a reason why exactly the damage was so far back-loaded on the long axe chain.

I can’t speak for the other axe-wielding warriors out there, but I would personally love to see that changed back. The spike may be higher overall for crit-damage stacking if you land every hit, but it’s so unreliable to get that last hit as to be almost prohibitive to use it in a PvP setting.

Maybe this is the wrong time to bring this up, considering the upcoming Hammer nerfs, but maybe we can sidetrack the discussion of the nerf that was obviously coming (justified or not) and get some opinions.

I’m gonna weigh in on this debate after reading so many complaints on this forum.

First off, my first class was the Warrior when I started this game last year, and now have about ~1800 hours on it. I also have a Mesmer, Guardian, and have just finished a Thief, but all three of those have significantly less than 1800 hours on them.

Note: Most of this is based on WvW experience, as critical damage in xPvP is low and conditions are a whole other story.

Now, in the current meta the Warrior is now commonly ‘sturdy’. Much more so than it was before. Building high toughness and running Adrenal Health + Healing Signet is popular right now, because it gives good passive defense. The combination of the two gives the warrior a decent buffer of health, which can get annoying to try and take down if it’s high enough.

However, the one thing that seems to bring out the most complaints is the “ability to do high damage while still being tanky”. This comes from the current hammer + Unsuspecting Foe combination (and mace, if a warrior is so inclined). However, no one seems to take into consideration what a hammer actually does, i.e. its mechanics, and just focus on how much damage it can do.

F1: It has a short leap AoE stun with medium-high damage on a fairly short cooldown.
#1: Slow autoattack, decent damage, but nothing without critical chance modifiers.
#2: Not that useful, and is mostly used to chain damage between CC. Slow, often misses while the enemy is not CC’d.
#3: Good frontal cone AoE cripple. Decent damage, used to keep pressure on while being kited.
#4: PBAoE knockback (Now mobile! Yay!). One of the CC elements in hammer. Medium damage,
#5: Single target knockdown. Long cast animation, high-ish damage.

What all of these skill have in common is that they are slow spike damage, which means they have to land in order for the warrior to do anything. I don’t say this to use it as a “L2P” argument. I argue that if one understands the warrior, then most hammer warriors should not be able to touch you. The times that I’ve lost to a warrior are very, very few on any of my other 3 80’s, and none of them have been hammer warriors (and I’ve seen quite a few warriors around). DODGE when you see the Earthshaker coming. Or hammer 4 or 5 for that matter, though 4 is a little harder to dodge now that it’s been buffed. But it’s not that dangerous anyway. Learn the animations.

I agree, Warriors are popular right now, along with the popularity of conditions on other classes. But you’ll find most of them don’t know when to use their skills. You’ll find them relying on their newly ‘sturdy’ body using their skills on cooldown. Just bring stunbreakers. Ideally at least 2 for when you screw up a dodge. You should have at least 2 as a roamer anyway. Bring blinks. Bring stability if you have it. Bring blinds if you don’t. Dodge. DODGE. Vigor is your friend, and something warriors mostly have to do without (though I REALLY want it. Vigor on crit pls). A hammer warrior shouldn’t be able to even touch a decent mesmer. Nor a thief with a sword. (Keep your Shadow Return out of their melee range. It still works under stun). Nor a condi engi (on that note, fighting a good condi/hybrid + perplexity engi is incredibly difficult for any class right now, except maybe for a Scepter/Torch + Staff mesmer).

Do I think the Warrior needs a nerf? No. For the most part, at least. The better sustain is fine right now, especially in the condi meta (which includes poison!). 8 seconds of immunity is nothing. Kite and it’ll be gone before you know it. However, maybe lower the crit chance on Unsuspecting Foe to something besides 50%. 50% undeniably quite strong and gives any warrior the ability to “build tanky and still do good damage” Maybe 30 or 40%.. But again, that damage relies completely on CC, which forces the warrior to take Hammer or Mace/Shield, and in that case, just understanding the Warrior class and their habits gives you an overwhelming advantage. Just learn the class. The mechanics aren’t hard to learn. Using them right is a different story. And before anyone tells me I just don’t want to see hammer nerfed, I play Axe/Shield. I hate hammer. Way too slow for me.

TL;DR: Please, just try to understand the Warrior before asking for flat out nerfs because they’re popular right now. My answer is no. Ish.

0/20/20/0/30 is a set of traits that would fit most of those weapons.

- GS buff/Rifle buff and Unsuspecting Foe (or something else if you’re not running stuns) in Arms
- Dogged March and Cleansing Ire in Defense (at the moment, DM is pretty important. CI is less so, depending on your build)
- Discipline’s a bit more pick and choose. I’ve always taken Warrior’s Sprint, even when it was only +10%, but you could pick a number of things. Signet recharge, boon hate, Sweet Revenge, axe buff, Mobile Strikes.. And either Burst Mastery or Heightened Focus depending on if you’re gonna use your bursts or not (like in a GS/Rifle build.. But you’re not optimized for that with this trait setup)

Basically, if you run GS and take the GS buff, you’ll be very mobile. None of your other weapon options are mobile at all, so if you like your mobility, take GS. Food is up to you, but the -condition duration food helps a lot with immobilize (running Melandru/Hoelbrak + DM, of course).

This trait setup happens to be a good setup for the current skullcrack build, but that’s not really the point. For a decent DPS build, this setup will fit most of your needs without having to retrait. It won’t always optimize, but it’ll work. Play around, though. You may like some traits more than others.

As far as gear goes, I’m sure you don’t want to spend too much, so a decent setup is Zerker armor + Melandru and a mix of Cavalier’s and Zerker trinkets.

As for utilities.. Healing Signet is really strong right now paired with Adrenal Health. 6-7-8 honestly are a little constrained between Berserker’s Stance, Balanced Stance, Dolyak Signet, and Endure Pain for survivability with this trait setup. And almost always you’ll want to take Signet of Rage as an elite. As always, though, play around and see what you like.

PurpleBackpackAttack.1462:

saiyr.3071:

PurpleBackpackAttack.1462:

saiyr.3071:

Yak’s Bend and Dragonbrand are going to double team us! I heard it from Sea of Sorrows!!!

Yeah right, DB bl getting Double teamed, by yaks and mag.
Fending off two 40+ man zergs inside our garison each hitting different gates. I’m pretty sure that’s the definition of double teaming, the cowards to afraid to fight server to server. I understand being jealous of our green power but seriously stop trying to be us, its not possible.

Sorry Mag you still belong in t4, and yaks you will never be green till DB goes to t2 or you go to t4.

I for one am really, really proud that your first post on these forums were a super serious post in response to a joke. Bravo~

Lol not my first post, its my first post that hasn’t been removed noob. I say things too radical and all the Yaks kids report.

Helmet: Vigil
Shoulders/Chestplate: Dark
Arms: Human T2 Cultural
Legs: Arah
Boots: Nobleman’s (CM)

Sword: Legionnaire
Shield: Lionguard

To the best of my knowledge. I’m fairly sure this is accurate. I spend a lot of time trying on armor.

As a warrior, I hated frenzy, but I really enjoyed using Sigil of Rage. I got used to it, so when it activated, I could properly react to it and get the most out of it. However, now that it’s so slow, it’s actually a little difficult to notice the change in attack speed.

Personally, I’d like to see the durations from items and some passive on-crit chance traits to be increased as well. Time Warp, maybe not. 10 seconds is still pretty darn long, but I’d like to at least feel like something is happening when the RNG goes off and I actually get quickness, rather than just a slight increase for a meager 3 seconds and a 45 second cooldown.

I’m aware why quickness was nerfed. I’m just wondering why some of the the non-definite (RNG/contigent) sources of quickness were not given increased durations. Since there’s already the RNG factor as well as the internal cooldowns, shouldn’t they be given more of a priority on increased durations, rather than the definite sources of quickness?

Just a few questions about the new quickness nerf and the duration of quickness skills.

Is there a specific reason that a few quickness durations were not increased, as well as non player-cast quickness buffs?

Such as:

Mesmer – Time Warp
Guardian – Zealot’s Fervor (Tome of Wrath)
Warrior – Last Chance
Ranger – Zephyr’s Speed (And maybe Instinctual Bond?)
Thief – Critical Haste

Sigil of Rage
Superior Rune of Orrian/Balthazar

For example: Sigil of Rage is ~20 silver on the TP, which means it’s potentially underutilized already (or maybe it’s too common. I know a lot of weapon drops have the sigil) with its 45-second cooldown, 10% chance on activation, and short duration. Now the use will be reduced even more, with nothing to be said for the people that actually liked the sigil.

I’m not saying many of these skills/items were used very often (save TW, obviously) or were very viable before this change, but since this is fairly significant change to the quickness effect itself, doesn’t it make sense that all sources of quickness have increased duration? Or again, is there a specific reason why these were left out?

Perhaps try Runes of Rage.

You should have 100% fury uptime with SoR and FGJ with the +fury duration, so you should have a consistent +15% critical damage.

EDIT: almost 100%.

Ninein.4782:

Quenta.2978:

Ninein.4782:

Quenta.2978:

In WvW, everyone has 0 allies and 2 enemies.

You are always, by design, being double teamed.

Like I said double team happens. But DB’s whole strategy revolves around it to compensate for something.

I wouldn’t say that what DB does is any different than what any other server does. It certainly is not Machaveillian. It’s just DB solidifying their position in a logical manner.

If DB truly desired to win the match up, they would wisely court themselves to Maguumas WvW guilds to team up on FA. Now that would be cunning and interesting.

DB is kitten about losing to Mag in the past. They’re resorting to weak tactics to not lose to Mag.

We like the East Keep. That’s about it.

Kore.9523:

So much QQ from Yaks? Man you guys are so kitten to keep talking trash about our any time crew just because you are losing hard. Maybe instead of complaining and moaning on the forums get off your butt’s and do something about winning. Then maybe you wouldn’t be in 2nd last place?

Please ignore this post.

The vocal minority is on the forums, we all know that. At least a lot of us know that.

Please refrain from these kinds of inflammatory posts. No one is flagging behind, nor is anyone being lazy, and it’s a fact that we’re rarely if ever in first place during NA prime time. It doesn’t matter for what reasons, whether our NA crew just isn’t as big/effective as that of Yak’s or EBay, or whether the other two servers are trying to negate our nighttime gains by focusing more on us than each other.

Can we move on now please?

nytehex.3267:

What amazes me about that video is the fact that everything I have been preaching for the past couple of days is now confirmed BY KREW THEMSELVES!!!!! They sit there and proclaim themselves to be pro and they can’t even take out Plok 1v1…it has to be 6v1 WITH A BALLISTA shooting as well. They couldn’t fight themselves out of a paper bag that has been sitting in the rain for an hour, and they only proved it by filming themselves in the act.

I’m sorry, but I have to comment again.

As much as I dislike KREW’s behavior in this video, I can’t stand this kind of comment either.

Plok seems to be that guardian, correct? What guardians do best is mitigate damage. Yes, the fight was, say, 6v1. But tell me, did he down anyone? No. He certainly was no bunker. He was downed far too quickly to be a decent bunker. However, he certainly did survive for longer than a full glass cannon. Does that feat deserve gloating? Certainly not for a guardian.

I watched the timer on the video. The fight starts at 16 seconds, and he gets downed for the first time at 26 seconds. If you’re keeping score, that’s 10 seconds. He then rallies soon after by an NPC being killed. He then heals, then is downed and quickness stomped at approximately 45 seconds. If you’re having trouble with the math, that’s approximately 30 seconds, with a rally off of an NPC.

Do not gloat for what amounts to a rather quick death with the variable of an NPC thrown in. It is no admirable feat.

And Krew, you disgraced no one in that video. It was not worth putting up, no matter your feelings against Goat or their guardian.

Plok.6145:

Graviton.1983:

The great “Commander Plok” is tirelessly leading the verbal assault on DB as we speak. His vocals will be heard throughout the entire server and instill fear into the hearts of my fellow DB’ers. His battles are not fought in the Heart of the Mists, but in the ears of his enemies.

Naw, just one one guild imparticular. I’m sorry most of your server is zergers, nothing you can do about that.

Man.

I longed for the day that Dragonbrand could have competent numbers. I really did. I started WvW during our free fall in the tiers. My second match ever was against Sea of Sorrows, when we lost a lot of our players to them. Even the friend that invited me to play GW2 with him left for SoS.

We’ve suffered from low numbers during NA hours ever since I started. Two weeks ago, we were definitely outnumbered by Borlis Pass during NA prime time. Definitely.

Don’t get me wrong, I very much enjoy fighting. I enjoy the uphill battle, the desperation of defense. I don’t like one-sided fights no matter what side I’m on.

However.

Now that we aren’t, shouldn’t I be happy? Aren’t I allowed to be happy that we’re no longer always fighting a losing battle when I’m playing? Can’t I be happy that I no longer have to call out a big incoming and have 2 people show up to defend?

Apparently not. Because you are annoying.

I dislike this current matchup because it’s one-sided. I also dislike it because of people like you.

Dragonbrand is a server full of zergers? Don’t make me laugh. Our core players have gone through the hemorrhaging of guilds just like DH is right now. We stabilized and rebuilt. We got transfers. Do transfers leave a bad taste? Yes. They were the root of our problems at the launch of the game. However, for servers to progress in WvW at this point in GW2’s lifespan, they are necessary.

I know you’re just a troll and I really shouldn’t let you get to me.

But God it’s annoying. This match is one-sided. We get it. We all get it. Most of us are uncomfortable with it.

Get off your high horse. Your guild is not God. I don’t care how good you think you are, there are thousands better.

But civility and encouragement is necessary. And you are not.

Barfoi.9537:

… and still no mace skins? :-(

No clue on a special Wintersday mace skin, but I found a mace that looks like a bottle of whiskey and immediately bought it.

fellyn.5083:

Shadowscamp.8065:

Littlefeather.8623:

Shadowscamp.8065:

Littlefeather.8623:

Mudslinging and Trashtalking?

Then tell me what is it called with 10-15 Db AND 10-15 NSP are fighting side by side killing our Golems. You tell me why DB is camping a supply camp that is closest to our (DH) Spawn on the other side of the map, when they do not event have their area accounted for. You tell me why NSP or DB takes our supply camps when we assault the other teams objectives.

Talk about sportsmanship?…

Oh and on a side note, if yall didnt know, well RE started fight club in GW2, we werent invited to NSP/DB Fight Club in NSP BL today, sad panda.

When we spawn camp or face roll yall, we do it on our own, we dont help NSP or DB. Seems like yall want to make it personal, well its just gonna make me push my faceroll button that much harder when I see yall.

Yes, I am the GS Guardian [that does a /laugh before I get you downed] with a glowing AC GS in the HotW Set that no one has the balls to stand infront of.

Honestly, I wasn’t going to say anything more in these threads.
But.. Come on. Come ON.

Seriously, are you 13? 12?

Are you really THAT immature?

Are you really THAT unintelligent?

From everything I’ve seen from you so far, yes. Yes you are. Thanks for confirming my opinion of you with every word that you write.

I don’t care how much you need to attempt and inflate your pathetic ego. No one cares. No one cares about your opinion. I’ve already said this before in the previous thread. No one wants to hear from you, except maybe those like you, who also want to inflate their fragile egos through the internet, where NONE of that matters, nor does it stay.

For the love of God.

Leave.

All you’ve done in these forum threads is badmouth the two other servers, and cause more arguing than needs to happen.
Obviously, you’re not the only one, but come ON. You’re by far the worst. At least some of the other people try to at least hide it, whether it be by being passive-aggressive or through pointed comments.

This game deserves better than the likes of you.

Please, for the love of God, stop this whining and pointing fingers, all of you. This thread is disgusting.

Hey you, everything I wrote is not a lie. It happened, and I was not the only one to see it. Yes DB AND NSP were attacking us standing right next to eachother in NSP BL today. Yes DB was camping our south east supply camp, when their south west supply camp was owned by NSP. No I am not making this stuff up. If thats how NSP wants to roll well ok, I can always adjust my target to make NSP’s WvW life miserable too.

You obviously only read part of what I wrote, and assumed that I was talking about this “double teaming” that you care so much about.

Frankly, I don’t care about who’s fighting who.

However, if you read the voices of reason in this thread who understand the dynamics of a fight with 3 sides, you may begin to understand that whatever a side decides to do, it’s always in their own favor.

Or you may not, as understanding obviously seems to come with difficulty to you.

Read my entire post.

Read the post in context with your post immediately after the one I quoted.

Take note: I referenced an “ego”.
Take note: I referenced “badmouthing”.

And then please.

Leave this thread in peace.

It’s interesting that you expect something different from these threads. It seems obvious but I’ll suggest it anyways. If you don’t like it then don’t read it, because the tone of these threads were set a long time ago.

So that makes it okay and I should not be asking for it to stop?

That’s a very internet answer. Congratulations.

It seems obvious, but I’ll say it anyway. I have, in fact, seen better in these threads than what some people are posting, which is why I ask for those who are posting trash to vacate themselves from it.

As long as we’re also suggesting ideas for commander options,

I’d very much like commanders to be able to kick people off of siege even if it’s not their own siege.

There are a few reasons to do this:
1) If siege needs to be killed and can be with a piece of siege, but the current user is trying to kill players with it instead and is not listening/can’t understand
2) If the current user is not using it on the correct wall/gate that’s closest to being down or the easiest to get to and is not listening/can’t understand
3) There are probably other reasons to do this, but I can’t really think of any right now

The first two things are quite frustrating, for example when you know you could have saved the Cliffside tower with that ballista, but the user was busy trying to kill players with it rather than killing the three rams at the door.

Of course, this could lead to troll commanders?

But I don’t know if any troll is willing to pay 100g just to kick people off siege for the lulz.

brandon.6735:

ZacharyAY.9231:

again~again~
we will see the same guild in same time
in asia time i need to say
NS Meow guild is good ,and we alway have a good fight

I’m part of meow and all we see is your guild lol. We always want to kill that kitten char with that legendary sword.

I automatically try and kill anyone with a legendary too. >_>;
That and commander tag.

They’re like magnets for my axe. I can’t resist.

Adaneshade.2409:

Perhaps, rather than a growing rank system. Just have a % favorable/unfavorable…..
Each favorable vote vs unfavorable vote would be rounded to a total “satisfaction” score. So if you had to choose between a commander that had a 50% positive rating vs one that was 85%….you would know which one tended to produce favorable results.

Anyone with at least a bronze contribution to the event would have to option to vote positive or negative. (much like the current system used on sites like e-bay really)

I think an issue could potentially come up with the term “favorable results”.

What exactly constitutes favorable? Has a commander done everything in his/her power to, say, defend a tower against overwhelming odds, where outside is a zerg 30 strong and all the commander has is 10 players to work with? A lot of times that will result in a lost tower, just because of a lack of manpower. But just some random player won’t think of it that way. It’s possible that any lost objective will result in a “wow, this commander sucks. He/she just lost that tower/keep/camp”. I’ve seen plenty of players say “why did we just let them take that camp?” when we were in the process of defending a keep.

So in terms of a rating system, what’s a “favorable result”? How do you rank a commander on how good of a commander they are by something that’s as fickle as any player’s opinion?

Don’t get me wrong, I think this commander system is atrocious in its current implementation. 100 gold (which isn’t so difficult to farm) and you can lead a zerg. It’s just that in that light, where the individual player is untrustworthy, it seems also a bad idea to leave a commander’s reputation in the hands of people that may or may not know the dynamics of WvW, a zerg, numbers, or importance of one objective over another. Maybe one commander’s unlucky enough to only be available when their server’s population is low compared to that of their current matchup, and maybe another has the upper hand in numbers whenever they’re on. Then, they’d be rated by an inexperienced player as “this commander lost all of our land” or “this commander got us all this land”, when in theory, the outmanned commander may be the more skilled/experienced one.

Grit.9061:

The trash-talking really needs to stop. It makes our whole bracket look bad, even though our servers are very keen on having more players join up for WvW.

Friendly competition is great, but let’s try to keep a positive tone. That applies to all future threads as well.

Please.

Puddin Cheeks.8539:

Yeah it is laughable that 2 40 man zergs 1 from DH and one from NSP couldnt take our keep in EB from 20 defenders. Good Job on the team work eventually you guys will learn how to fight and not rely on another server.

It is very rewarding that for 2 weeks in a row when you guys team up on us you get shut down.

Dragonbrand 4 Life!

…Please, other server people. For the love of God, ignore him. I don’t want to start this up again.
No one’s relying on any other server to stay competitive. Not at this tier.

Please stop this complaining about double teaming.

For God’s sake, it’s a 1v2 ON ALL SIDES. There are THREE "W"’s in the name of the game. 1 + 2 = 3. Whether or not people decide to attack one server over another is INDIVIDUAL decisions and INDIVIDUAL rationale. NOT coordination.

Rob.7624:

Just wanted to post this.
Our siege is dropp’in siege

Siegeception.

I was unaware golems could do that. o.o

Caelib.2497:

I really dont understand the reasoning behind this change … it is called an area-of-affect spell for a reason: it affects everyone in the area!

Prior to the AOE nerf where it only affects 5 targets, there was a lot more strategy to large encounters in WvW; now it makes the most tactical sense to keep your entire force clumped up into the smallest area possible.

This change has also trivialized door sieges because burning oil now only affects five targets.

Please revert this change because the combat mechanics in WvW were just fine. Instead, focus your development efforts on the culling issue.

Well, for one, damaging player AOE has always only affected 5 targets. However, siege weapons have no cap. Now it’s common practice to load up siege weapons in a Lord’s room because it’s very powerful in those kinds of situations.

Littlefeather.8623:

Rethesis found something very suspicious in our public ventrillo, we took care of it though. Was kind of weird when 50ish DB respond as fast as a ninja mesmer portal into inner garrison takes lol, and a level 1 guild less following around RE Commanders nonstop lol.

Whatever it takes I guess, but just know DB will get its kittens handed to them in T4, and once you get bumped down here we will be better prepared for that next time. Grovel and beg for any other server jumpers yall want, were still going to push your face in during NA Primteime, while yall PVD when were asleep.

…Rofl. Did any of us grovel or beg? Ever? The answer is no, just in case you were wondering.

Get off your high horse. You have higher numbers during NA prime time. No one disputed that. We agreed to that fact. We struggle against it every day. We never claimed to be stronger than anyone else. We’ve been fighting bigger numbers for a LONG time.

Obviously, you’re one of those people with something against us having an Oceanic population. Obviously you think it’s “wrong” or “bad”.

You know what word I would use for your childish outburst in this post? “Butthurt”. Well guess what? This matchup is proposed to be the same next week as well. We got transfers. So what? Our NA fighters keep fighting no matter what, even when you “push our faces in” during your populous hours. We have been since the guild exodus, and we will keep on doing so.

Once again, get off your high horse and go somewhere else where no one can see you pat yourself on the back for having a bigger population at a specific time of day than another server. No one needs your opinions, ideas, or thoughts in this thread. Nor, I’m willing to bet, anywhere else either.

Rob.7624:

I see what you’re saying. And I can raise my hands and say that, “Hey, I can see the score and see that NSP cannot win this week.” That was evident since Saturday morning"

So the question as a Commander stands with me now. Who do I want to see win?
The blue server that hits us toe to toe during prime time with some wins and loses on both sides. Or the giant Lolfest that is the red server who caps points when the majority of us are asleep but can’t seem to muster very many when the big battle kicks up… ..O0o0oH tough one.

But then again I’m probably one of the worst affected by the oceanics since few people are on to help me defend the gear which usually falls to the most unbelievably unskilled players that I have honestly ever seen due to their sheer numbers.
Its seriously like fighting Russia. Little advanced weaponry but eventually you’re just going to run out of ammo.

Although double teaming some people may cry out is unfair.
Well dude, a DH commander this morning decided he was going to go against all logic and attack our rear flank.
Now, we had mustered a 30man zerg at that point but it was up north fighting Dragon.
As soon as scout reports came in you’ve never seen a zerg move that quickly.
I tore the guys out of a land locked battle and threw them straight at DH. Not much out of defence since we can hold that stuff with about 5 people. But to give you guys a shake.
After that DH started attacking Dragon as well because.. Dragon were now pushing down the NSP side and ANZ was basically a free steal.

You should know where this is going now. We pushed the Dragon out of NSP and back into the land locked place at Voleka while DH still plodded up to Mendons and took it.

This may look as if a double team is used. But its really just why attack a difficult target when you could attack someone with split forces? It only takes one Commander with a more dislike for a certain server than the other and BINGO, double slam.

Well yes. “Double teaming” in this context relies on individual choices. And that’s my point. No one here (I’m willing to bet, considering we’re tier 5 and not somewhere more competitive) is actively seeking out another server to double team any other team. However, if you voice an opinion that makes it seem that way, that’s going to incite more complaints.

I personally don’t care if it seems like the other two teams are avoiding each other and attacking one. I know that dynamic happens to all three teams at one point or another What I want is for this complaining to stop, for people not to bring in opinions that are potentially inflammatory, and us to have a good finish to this match.

fellyn.5083:

Take it as an insult if you want. It wasn’t intended to be. But just look at the complaints in this thread that DB feels like they are being double teamed. It’s not intentional and it’s not by design.

My point was purely that we do our best to remove any trace of db off the map in prime time and because of that fact you guys complain about being double teamed. I said it before and the reason why that is is because we can’t compete with your night time population.

Again, take it as an insult or don’t. That’s up to you.

I’m afraid that wasn’t my point.
I’ve always been against this complaining about “double teaming”, and I’ve actually said that in this thread. I’ve said your two points already.

My point was, you said “disagree with”, and that to me is a buzz word. If you missed my last sentence, I’ll rephrase:

Please try not to use words like that in order to stop this complaining about double teaming that’s happening on this thread. Two of us have already picked up on it.