Guild Wars 2

That’s what she said.

Enundr.9305:

Skyro.3108:

There have been a lot of subtle Necro changes that have flown under the radar amidist all the Dhuumfire rage. For example:

-Barbed Precision was buffed from 1s base duration to what I believe is now 2s (haven’t tested it specifically but it’s definitely noticeably longer)
-LF drains MUCH slower due to damage now. Again I haven’t tested it thoroughly, but that’s mainly because I’ve put GW2 on the side burner for now as I’ve been getting into dota 2 but again it is quite noticeable.
-The projectile speed on Staff auto-attack and Dark Pact are MUCH faster. This was a huge quality-of-life complaint from Necros and I’m glad ANet finally changed this.
-Spectral Armor I felt overall was buffed, however Spectral Walk was nerfed, but counterbalanced somewhat by LF now being tankier point-for-point.
-You forgot about Tainted Shackles which is pretty good :P
-Longer duration on Poison from #3 chain on Scepter.

And those are just off the top of my head. There’s no doubt in my mind Necros are stronger now than they were pre-patch, and by quite a large margin.

it drains slower if your not taking hits yes , but your still taking just as much damage (and now dont have that shield against bosses in pve , aka your biggest and practically only form of defense in pve , all for the sake of pvp , thank you pvp crowd for screwing the pve crowd AGAIN)

I meant that it drains slower per hit, meaning each % of LF absorbs more raw damage now than before. I believe the LF degeneration of 4%/sec is still the same.

Yeah I can see how losing the ability to absorb a big hit and have it not spill over to hp is pretty big in PvE, although PvE seems ridiculously easy in this game except I suppose if you get into the higher end of fractals, is that what you’re talking about?

There have been a lot of subtle Necro changes that have flown under the radar amidist all the Dhuumfire rage. For example:

-Barbed Precision was buffed from 1s base duration to what I believe is now 2s (haven’t tested it specifically but it’s definitely noticeably longer)
-LF drains MUCH slower due to damage now. Again I haven’t tested it thoroughly, but that’s mainly because I’ve put GW2 on the side burner for now as I’ve been getting into dota 2 but again it is quite noticeable.
-The projectile speed on Staff auto-attack and Dark Pact are MUCH faster. This was a huge quality-of-life complaint from Necros and I’m glad ANet finally changed this.
-Spectral Armor I felt overall was buffed, however Spectral Walk was nerfed, but counterbalanced somewhat by LF now being tankier point-for-point.
-You forgot about Tainted Shackles which is pretty good :P
-Longer duration on Poison from #3 chain on Scepter.

And those are just off the top of my head. There’s no doubt in my mind Necros are stronger now than they were pre-patch, and by quite a large margin.

I don’t know how anyone in their right mind can think Necros are weaker now than they were pre-buffs, unless I’m misunderstanding the OP. Most knowledgeable Necros knew they were pretty close to be pretty balanced pre-buffs from a tPvP-perspective.

Necros never needed burning in the first place, nor did Doom need to be buffed to 1.5s <600 range (never heard any high level Necro ask for either of these things), and while the big ticket changes like Dhuumfire get all the forum rage, it kind of makes ANet’s other quality-of-life changes to Necros slip under the radar, i.e. Staff auto-attack and Dark Pact speed.

IMO Dhuumfire needs to go, replace it with some Torment variant (perhaps make it proc on crit with no ICD like Barbed Precision to make hybrid Axe builds viable), and make Fear a status effect that isn’t modified by condition duration, and undo the Terror nerf.

IIRC I thought one of the devs implied (in a SotG I think?) that legendary skins will be reserved for top players (i.e. tourney winners and the like). I doubt this will be a problem.

Follidus.8027:

What’s cool is when people that have smurf accounts use them to queue against high rated players, and then never play on their real accounts because it “wouldn’t make sense to.”

Hope they can do something about this before more people start taking leaderboards seriously. Just saying.

This is a combination of the incredibly tiny playerbase along with whatever MMR rating ANet has currently implemented being incredibly volatile (the exact MMR rating may be fine with a sizable playerbase, but needs to be adjusted until that playerbase develops, if ever). Smurfing isn’t really a problem at all in games with strong playerbases like SC2.

That said, I have no idea why you would waste money on a smurf account. Yeah you can go down quickly in ranks if you like to solo q, but it literally jumps right back up once you start queuing with your team again, and because of the tiny playerbase it doesn’t appear to have much of an effect on who the system matches you up against.

The damage range seems very funky. In actual matches I’ve gotten as low as the 700’s to around 3500 (this is combined with bountiful interruption and the 8x vulnerability on daze/interrupt traits).

Regardless, I think the skill has a small niche now for zerker phantasm-based builds who do not use greatsword (as if you did you would just take the greatsword CD redution trait instead). I was playing around with a 30/20/20/0/0 S/P + Staff build and Mantra of Distraction feels like a very nice addition to the phantasm build. Signet of Illusions is no longer a necessity due to recent changes to Phantasm health so it frees up a utility slot there.

So when I interrupt with MoD, I have a 50% chance to stun them, get 5x might for 12s, apply 8x vulnerability, and do a nice chunk of damage. If you interrupt a heal, or hit them to setup your iDuelist attack people just wither at your feet. None of these traits appear to have a cooldown either, so multiple interrupts in a row from Pistol 5 or Stakitten can gives you crazy stacks of might. It’s also funny locking people down in a Chaos Storm if you get some lucky procs in a row.

The caveat however is that it feels as though you need Sigil of Paralyzation to make all those stuns/dazes 2s instead of 1 for it to feel effect at all, and I imagine that this is a bug and will get fixed eventually. But that shouldn’t stop you from enjoying it while you can, especially all those GW1 Mesmers who want to play that old interrupt style!

P.S. Diversion also becomes a great lock-down tool for an assist train with the stun on daze trait!

Torch would be used a lot more if the phantasm associated with it was not complete and utter garbage.

Scepter has a lot of issues with it. From a PvP perspective, long channel skills tend to be pretty terrible overall. It’s just so easy for the enemy to run out of range, run behind you, out of LoS, interrupt you, etc. The auto-attack is pretty terrible, and torment on the block skill seems misplaced. If I were ANet I would completely revamp the weapon and:

1) Make the scepter auto-attack hit instantly, similar to Necro’s scepter auto-attack.
2) Make the scepter 2 skill apply confusion instead of torment on a successful block, and make the secondary activated skill a blind + confusion and also instant cast so it can be used as a clutch blind to a critical skill.
3) Make the scepter 3 not require you to be facing the target after you start channeling (similar to Necro Dagger 2 channel), add a bit of leeway so the channel doesn’t instantly break once they get out of 600 range, make it apply torment instead of confusion, and make the torment pulse 5x torment for 1s so it refreshes torment each pulse. This will frontload the torment damage and make it punishing for players to move while it is targeting them and make it an interesting ability on both sides of the equation.

I mentioned this in another necro nerf post but just make fear an effect like stun/daze and make it not be effected by condition duration (but let stun duration mods still effect it). Of course they would also have to fix how stun duration mods like sigil of paralyzation add (round) an additional full sec to stun/dazes, but you get the point.

This would clean up a lot things and would indirectly nerf terror and 30/30 builds, fix the issue w/ melandru runes, etc. while still not hurting defensive/sustain builds which don’t spec into the spite line.

Then if that isn’t enough they could nerf Doom back to 1s base and/or change dhuumfire to proc torment instead. It’s kind of funny since nobody was asking for increase duration on doom or burning, most Necros were just asking for more survivability/escapes vs focus fire and more sustain. For example I thought the Spectral Wall change as great and exactly the type of change Necros were asking for. Tainted Shackles I thought was a bit much on the damage-side of things but at least it is an interesting ability that can be used in many ways.

Ah the sPvP forums, where every thread ultimately turns into a nerf thread. Never lets you down, but ok, I’ll bite.

Personally from a game design perspective skills like spectral wall is exactly what this game needs. Fun to use, fun to watch, can be used strategically in a multitude of ways, and involves a high amount of counter play.

From a balance perspective I think s.wall is actually in a good place. Contrary to all the hypothetical examples in this thread, spectral wall is not a must take in high lv tPvP. Right now Necro utilities consist of epiedemic, a stun break (plague signet or s.walk), and then flex slot which can be corrupt boon, signet of spite, or s.wall, so you’re not going to be seeing any Necros bringing both corrupt boon and s.wall for instance. You can’t bring s.wall instead of a stun break because a coordinated assist train combined with stability from the guardian means certain death. Necros rely so much on CC and counter pressuring with DPS as their means of defense, and can be completely shut down with stability or by chain CC’s.

Now I do think Necro condi DPS needs to be toned down a bit and IMO the most elegant and simple fix that ANet could and should do is make condition duration not effect fear and just treat it like an effect like stun. This solves many, many problems such as a nerf to the popular 30/30/10 builds (which IMO can be easily shut down in high lv tPvP), fix the funky interaction with Melandru runes, condition duration food, etc. etc.

S.Wall on the other hand is something that everybody has been asking for for Necros, more survivability vs focus fire. Something that can allow Necros to escape a fight without necessarily giving them a mobility skill. Why anybody would want to nerf a much needed skill such as this does not understand the core fundamental issues with Necro ATM.

Here’s a link to a thread where I did some very quick testing. There is in fact a pre-determined condition transfer order. Condition removal skills/traits however still appear to be random, or at least not a set order like condition transfers are.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Nerf-Putrid-mark/first#post2351125

It’s supposed to be an area denial skill. If you could dodge through Spectral Wall it would be pointless. It’s meant to be the Necro version of Line/Ring of Warding (which you can’t dodge through either).

For pure, mid node bunkering and team support I think Guard is probably still better. But a Necro bunker brings other advantages, namely they can still dish out good DPS via Epidemic while being very tough to kill. The buff where spectral armor/walk effects still work in DS was a HUGE buff to Necro survivability vs focused DPS.

The key to making a Necro bunker is spectral armor/walk + last gasp proc and managing their cooldowns so they don’t overlap, as well as keeping as high uptime of regen on yourself as possible (optimally you can have 100% uptime on regen). Here is a good build of a main Necro bunker, but as I stated above you can tweak this for more damage and be an off-bunker and still be very effective.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;044Z;1kHkC0C4gJkJ0;9;599JT;13;01;023-37AVN17;2Uwl6Uwl69cJ

There are many variations. You can easily drop weakening shroud for the retal on DS activation. If you want to off-bunker you can drop stability for terror. You can swap out geomancy for energy runes if you want more defense. You can drop Epidemic for Spectral Armor as well if you want that extra defensive cooldown but I don’t feel it is necessary.

P.S. You are also a beast at res’ing with Mercy Runes since you have a low cooldown stability on demand plus you can pop plague as well.

Just looking for a dev response on the stealth nerf to Putrid Mark, which nerfs were intended or are they bugged. Putrid Mark now functions so that:

1) Removes 3 conditions off yourself per target hit (I like this change)
2) No longer removes ANY conditions off allies who are in the Putrid Mark when triggered (not a fan of this change)

Any dev response would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Skyro.3108:

1) Putrid was already nerfed this last patch. It transfers 3 condis off yourself per target hit. I believe it also just transfers 3 condis off allies now as well regardless of the number of targets hit but I haven’t gotten around to testing that yet. IMO this was a good change.

This is not true at all. Putrid mark was buffed substantially by making it TRANSFER blinds instead of blinds making it miss. This was the only change to putrid mark.

You are incorrect sir. I’d rather have pre-patch Putrid Mark all day every day.

Also I just tested it vs allies. Putrid Mark no longer cleans ANY conditions off allies. It is essentially comparable to Deathly Swarm now with a 3 condi transfer per target. Whether this is a bug or stealth nerf I don’t know, since the tooltip didn’t change.

Also there is a strict priority with which conditions are transferred now (for both Putrid Mark and Deathly Swarm). The priority is roughly (hard to test exactly since it is 3 condis).

Blind
Immob
Weak
Vuln
Chill/Crip/Burn
Poison/Bleed

Not sure about Torment/Confusion/Fear I didn’t test everything. Also note that condition removal skills does not behave this way. Condition removal skills still appear to be random (or at least not a strict priority order).

I like the premiss of more torment access on the Necro. It seems to fit the Necro playstyle a lot. If they do change burning to torment it should have no ICD or a very low one to promote hybrid builds so Necros can choose between Close to Death for power builds and this new trait for hybrid power/condi builds.

1) Putrid was already nerfed this last patch. It transfers 3 condis off yourself per target hit. I believe it also just transfers 3 condis off allies now as well regardless of the number of targets hit but I haven’t gotten around to testing that yet. IMO this was a good change.

2) The spectral effects (e.g. spectral armor/walk) working in DS was a huge buff to survivability. This was a very underrated change for Necro survivability. It raised the skill floor since you don’t have to manage your DS with spectral effects anymore, but now these skills are VERY effective at surviving vs focus fire.

3) All I want now in terms of Necro survivability is a revamp of siphoning and being allowed to be healed in DS. I know the devs keep saying how OP Necro tanks were in beta, but I do not see how being able to be healed in DS will make them invincible tanks. DS itself has no heals, so outside of regen and specific healing traits the only heals the Necro will be getting is from allies, which promotes team work rather than restrict it.

edit: I also agree Necro condi damage is out of control. They buffed power Necros quite a bit this last patch, but they also buffed condi Necros as well and they are still the apex Necro build in tPvP by quite a large margin. But ANet already said they are going to tone this down so we’ll see what they do.

If they made Ghastly Claws not require you to be facing your target for its entire duration (like how Life Siphon works on MH Dagger) I think it will do wonders for the weapon.

S/D Thief is still somewhat of a rarity in tPvP so just due to the lack of experience I’ve had facing them I had no idea how to fight them initially. I just started picking up some things very recently that might help you out though:

-I usually just eat the initial Flanking Strike. It doesn’t really hit all that hard. Both the boon steals and the big damage is packed into the follow-up strike, so if you’re going to dodge something dodge this.

-If you snare the Thief with cripple or chill you can very easily kite Flanking Strike since movement debuffs affect the movement speed/distance of it. This is very key, you must hit your snares on the Thief so you can kite them better.

-As a follow-up to the above point, you have to learn when the Thief evades so you can actually hit them with your snares. Some Thieves like to spec deep into Acrobatics which makes things more complicated, but knowing basics like how they can’t Flanking Strike twice in a row, so you have a much better chance of hitting them with something after Flanking Strike than if they haven’t used it at all yet. Plus the timeframe of when Larcenous Strike is up after Flanking Strike isn’t very long, so if they spend all their dodge evading after Flanking Strike then they won’t be able to use Larcenous Strike.

-As with all Sword Thieves they rely a lot on Infiltraitor’s Strike > Shadow Return to get in and out. Shadow Return actually is activated after the swing from Infiltraitor’s Strike, so if you interrupt it he can’t use Shadow Return. My guildmate thinks it’s possible to react and interrupt it with DS fear, but it’s really fast and I wouldn’t recommend it. I think this is good to know however as you can time your fear mark or chill mark to mess them up when they teleport in.

-If you want to put pressure on a Thief another good tip a guildmate gave me was that while you are kiting the Thief run back to his Shadow Return spot (it shows up as a white circle). That way he can’t just use Shadow Return to get away as easily.

Probably will be in the spite line. Not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand I do see it helping power builds and hybrid builds a lot but on the other hand I’m not sure it is the best way to go about it.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I am pretty sure there is not a test too hard.

Nothing’s “brutal tryout process” is an inside joke. Msg me if you’re interested in joining.

FYI we’re opening this up to all classes for guild invites, with the caveat that there is no promises of a spot on the actual core team, mostly because we’re still in a bit of flux on what we want to run. We’re going to take a longer-term outlook on this one, so any exceptional players regardless of class feel free to apply.

Hello!

As stated in the topic we are looking for a 5th for our core tourney team. We are located on the NA server. Looking for exceptional players of all classes. We are tentatively planning to run M-Th from 5-8 PST, with variable times on Fri/Sat/Sun as time/schedules permit.

We’re planning to be as competitive as we possible as quickly as possible with the intent to compete in as many 3rd party organized tournaments as time/schedules allow. All 4 core members have spent time in the top 100 on the leaderboards, but our current focus will be on improving and preparing for these 3rd party tournaments, so expect experimentation on the ladder with little regard for personal ranking.

Personality-wise, all core members are young working adults, so we’re looking for similarly like-minded individuals who are positive and open-minded about improving, accepts constructive criticism well, and can stick to a schedule.

OP also has access to a custom server, as well as another team that runs under another tag which we may set up scrims with. We currently use Team Speak as our VOIP.

You can reply here, PM me on the forums, or send in-game mail to Skyro.3108 or Nothing.8564 with the following info. Thank you and have a nice day.

1) Play schedule/availability
2) Rank
3) Classes/specs played, with the # of tournament matches played/won with each
4) Any prior teams you’ve played on
5) Any prior experience/success in other competitive games
6) Anything you’d like to add, i.e. ambitions into GW2, etc.

Oh ANet… what trolls you guys are…

So when did HGH engi become synonymous with condi engi? There is some weird revisionist history going on on these forums cuz condi engis have been viable in high level tPvP since release, and HGH engi is not the de facto condi engi build used in high lv tPvP. I’ve played vs ostrich a lot on ladder too and I don’t even remember the last time I even saw him using HGH.

1) The only reason to use Rabid Amulet is if you use Earth Sigils. Use Carrion Amulet + Necromancer runes. It will be more damage and more survivability. I know you are trying to stick to theme here but I’m just telling you what is actually more effective.

2) I disagree with your assessment of “being mediocre at everything” simply because you grab Master of Terror. One of the biggest reasons you want to bleed bomb in the first place is to get a fat Epidemic off on that large bleed stack you just put on your target. Master of Terror gives you the fear duration you to chain your fear into bleed bomb into epidemic all while your target is CC’ed. Plus it’s more damage from terror and acts as a ghetto AoE interrupt (since you Epidemic a 0.1s fear as well).

3) I don’t consider Mark of Evasion necessary for bleed bombing, though it is a nice skill. The reason why is because it still effectively has a cast time (the dodge itself) so you can’t immediately chain it together with all your other bleeds. Personally I find Mark of Evasion great for a tanky, shaman amulet variant since it gives you near perma regen uptime. Also it gives 2 stacks of bleeding, not 3 like the staff version.

4) I also don’t consider Hemophilia mandatory either. In my mind any Necro worth his salt should be bleed bombing, and you only need 0/20/10/0/20 to do it (to grab terror, master of terror, weakening shroud, greater marks) with 20 points to float around as you see fit. I don’t fault your use of Hemophilia however, as it is great if you get it on a target with no condi removal. What I’m basically saying is that IMO Necros should be bleed bombing no matter what personal condi variant build you are using.

5) I have started using Flesh Golem a lot recently as well and it is also great to help CC your target to get those bleed bombs off. Their charge ability is also great to charge through Guardians rez’ing allies through sanctuary .

In a team fight no, because MM’s aren’t great in team fights to being with. But a coordinated Moa on a MM necro who is bunkering a side point would be a very viable target to obliterate in a second to get the immediate neutralize/cap of that point.

I still don’t see the reason why transforms should kill minions however. It does not seem like it would be imbalanced in any way if it were changed considering MM’s are non-existent in high level tPvP.

Bhawb.7408:

Honestly, if someone is wasting Moa on an MM, all the more power to them. Its not that great of a use of the ability unless you are relying on Flesh Wurm to get back to defend back point or something. Otherwise you should be more than able to get out of the fight alive (even Guardians can do it with half your HP), and then with Minion CDR, your non-elites will be up within 20 seconds of coming out of the morph. Its annoying, but its not a good use of the ability.

Coordinated with your team 1 Mesmer + 1 Thief can absolutely destroy a Moa’ed target pretty much instantly and there’s really nothing you can do about it. That said it’s not the easiest to coordinate in a hectic fight. Regardless, it’s pretty stupid how Moa makes all your minions die and should be changed.

No.

15characters

ManCaptain.3154:

flow.6043:

But with 3 or 4 seconds, there is a window of opportunity to land 2-3 skills on a defensless enemy.

except for the whole, you know, dodging thing people do

I’ve found the 4s AoE daze to be much more useful defensively when the opposing team tries to zerg you down. It completely relieves the pressure off of you. I’m starting to like Decaying Swarm now more and more now too not just for the swiftness but the cripple allows you to kite much more effectively.

What they should do is make siphons scale w/ healing power, buff the base heal, then balance the new siphon with an ICD (so it is equally useful for all builds/weapon sets). Also allow yourself to be healed in DS so siphons work while in DS. That would be the cleanest way to buff siphons.

RashanDale.3609:

Btw, has anyone tried if the sigil affects the golem’s CC?

I dont expect it, just curious

It does not as Flesh Golem’s CC is a knockdown + launch (at the end of the charge), which the sigil does not affect (it only works on stuns and dazes). Plus I’m not even sure duration effects work on minions.

Anyway, I’ve been playing around in sPvP with WH offhand on my condi Necro utilizing the trait + sigil for the 4s daze. It is very, very strong in the right situations, and I am seriously considering using it from now on when I face teams with no heavy condi damage (as Deathly Swarm would be too much to give up vs those teams).

The Flesh Wurm teleport works just like the Blink/Infiltraitors Arrow on Mesmer/Thief in terms of the areas you can teleport to, so if you are familiar with the spots you can teleport to with those skills it should work with Flesh Wurm as well.

I’ve estimated it to be roughly twice the size of the 240 radius AoE marker, so ~480 radius.

Yes weakness needs to be looked at. I imagine thakittens effect must have been balanced around PvE where crit chance is low/non-existent and was never balanced in PvP where crit chances are very high.

Just look at all the skills/traits that apply weakness in this game. Nearly every single one of these skills is either considered underpowered, used for their other effects, or simply not used at all in PvP. The reduced energy regen is nice, but with the abundance of condi cleanse and high uptime of vigor on many classes it is not enough.

SOLUTION: Get rid of the glancing blow mechanic completely and simply cause weakness to reduce power and condition damage by X amount. This keeps the condition balanced between PvP and PvE and makes the condition useful in nearly any situation. This also has the effect of possibly making underpowered builds more viable as some builds seem to incorporate weakness heavily into their builds (e.g. hammer/mace warriors).

Diage.6451:

nakoda.4213:

Motoko.2875:

I am merely pointing out that GW2 PvP is void of any real competition and is just as dead if not more dead than GW1 PvP.

which is what we are telling you is incorrect.

GW2 pvp is infantile, not dead.

Competition hasn’t started yet.

GW1 wasn’t the be all end all of pvp in it’s first 9 months either.

6 Months after release, Guildwars 1 started a $100,000 dollar tournament ladder.
(http://guildwars.com/competitive/gwwc/worldchampionship-rules.php)

It takes more than nine months for the same company to even start to want to be considered infantile. Makes sense.

That tournament was funded by ANet themselves. I remember because I actually played in that tournament. Tournaments cropping up now funded by third parties, which is needed if you ever want a real tournament scene to grow.

Some GW1 players seem to sooooo badly want GW2 to be GW1 v2.0, but it should’ve been apparent from the start (and stated by the devs) that they were going in a different direction. You guys just need to get over it and move on. I know I have. I enjoy GW2 for what it is. If you don’t like GW2 then just find something else to your tastes.

Whether GW2 will ever blow up and become the dreaded e-word I have no idea, but I can tell you on the top of the NA scene, which was dead by anybody’s standards a couple of months ago, is starting to pick back up, slowly but surely. A lot of good players I have not seen in a long time are resurfacing again. There is a looooooong way to go in terms of infrastructure, but at least the devs acknowledge this. If you don’t have the patience to wait, like I said, go find something else and check back in down the line.

Speaking from a tPvP perspective, it’s hard to see this skill getting much use even if it is improved. While Poison fields are nice to put on points and on top of corpses to prevent/slow down rezzes, it is easily accessible from Thieves w/ shortbow (which nearly all Thieves use) and Engi grenades. The weakness aspect of it is not all that awesome either since you can just blast finisher in the field to apply AoE weakness (which is also readily available with Thief shortbow). And the area control aspect of it is better done with Necro wells.

Poison application for Necros is a problem however, but IMO it should innate with the Necro’s weapons, rather than be forced to use a utility slot on it. Chilblains should leave a poison field which ticks poison in the field (it already leaves a poison field for combo’ing stuff, but doesn’t continually tick poison), and Corrosive Poison Cloud should just be scraped entirely IMO, and it’s slot should be replaced with some other interesting mechanic.

I must say that is pretty interesting. I wonder if it adds 1s to all daze/stuns? The inaccuracy of tooltips in this game is over the top sometimes…

Yes zzod like all classes Necros have their share of pros and cons, but if you suggesting that Necro’s are not viable at the highest levels of tPvP in a condi cleave comp on FoN and LoF then we are in disagreement on that one. There is a ton of variability in condi necro builds based on the comp you are facing and their strategy. I more often than not change things around with my build and gear match to match based on the comp we are facing, which is especially important if you run into the same team multiple times in one gaming session and happens quite often at the top of the leaderboards.

Here’s my perspective on high level tPvP (can’t speak about PvE/WvW balance since I don’t play those modes). I’m currently ranked 60-something on the NA ladder, which I only mention here so you know that I go against the top teams all the time on NA (the few that there are remaining). That said:

-Condi Necros are completely viable in condi cleave teams paired with a condi engi. However note that IMO condi cleave isn’t what I would consider optimal on many maps. I mention this because a lot of people seem to be up in arms about not seeing Necros in the few tournies we’ve seen so far, but IMO that at least partially has to the do with the fact that it’s not something you can run on all maps.

-Condi Necros are also great anti-condi support. This is another reason why I don’t think we’ve seen many Necros in EU tournies, because AFAIK (I don’t follow the EU scene closely so take with a grain of salt) condi cleanses are more prevalent and condi cleave teams much less prevalent on EU compared to NA.

-The focus should be on improving other Necro builds because condi Necros are more or less in a decent place, perhaps just a few tweaks so that they are a bit less niche, more along the lines of improving mobility than raw damage output.

-Here were my submitted questions to the eSports weekly thing SOAC is doing next week with the devs, which focuses more on the overall design intent of Necros than specific changes, along with some possible suggestions to consider:

1) Is it intended that Necros receive no healing (from party members,
from regen, etc.) while in DS? If so, why?

2) Are Necros living up to your design principles of “attrition” in
sPvP with the abundance of condi cleanses in the game?

SUGGESTION: If not, do you feel more sources of poison application
would help somewhat alleviate this issue, both in terms of addition
cover conditions and the reduction in healing output?

3) Is the Necro’s lack of mobility (lack of easy access to swiftness,
teleports, leaps, etc.) an issue? Is this intended?

SUGGESTION: Changing the “Speed in Shadows” trait to grant swiftness
on DS activation would be one avenue to alleviate the lack of
swiftness.

4) Why do life siphoning skills (such as Life Siphon on the dagger and
Signet of the Locusts) scale with healing power, but life siphoning
traits (such as vampiric) do not? Is this intended?

SUGGESTION: Life siphoning traits are currently non-existent in sPvP,
wouldn’t making these traits scale with healing power open up more
viability and give Necros more reasons to itemize for healing power?

5) Why are Ranger pet abilities usable while downed and with no cast
time, while Necro minion abilities cannot be activated while downed
and most require a cast time from the Necromancer himself?

SUGGESTION: Activated minion abilities should require no cast time (as
there is already a delay between skill activation and when the minion
actually uses said skill) to increase responsiveness of minions and
improve minion Necro viability in sPvP.

6) Assuming Necro survivability was designed around DS, do you feel it
is an issue that Necros starts matches with no LF and thus are at a
relative disadvantage to other classes?

SUGGESTION: Have Necros start with a small amount of LF (i.e. 10%) so
they can access and utilize DS to a small degree at the beginning of a
match.

Condi Necro’s are completely viable in a condi cleave comp in a team fight oriented strategy. Necro’s still have the best condi control in the game, and while they don’t have the raw single target condi DPS as Engis, their AoE application is greater and easier utilized at longer ranges. Thus Condi Necros are optimally used on maps/comps where you can force team fights to take advantage of their AoE condi application, and/or vs heavy condi comps for their condi control. But I agree that Condi Engis are much easier to just plug into any random comp/strategy and do well with.

The other Necro builds need some work though. But I do not feel all of the things addressed here are an issue:

-I have no issues with Necros not having any invuln, disengage or evade skills (all of which seems to be intended design via dev responses)

-Vigor: Necros need some form of vigor. I honestly see no reason why Necros are the only class w/o access to vigor.

-Swiftness: Spectral Walk gives high swiftness uptime, however I would like to see the Speed in Shadows give Swiftness on DS.

-Downed State: I think Necros terrible downed state is the biggest reason on why they see so little play in high level tPvP. Downed state management is such a large factor in determining who wins team fights, and this combination of a terrible downed state on such an easily trainable class is just bad. Necros easily have the worst downed state in the game.

Without going through the laundry list of things I would like to see changed on the Necro, I think 2 core issues need to be addressed first:

1) Allow Necros to be healed in DS. I have no idea why DS prevents heals. I always assumed this was a holdover from when DS was the Necro’s downed state, but 8 months in and still this persists.

2) Poison application. IMO Necros, who are stated by the devs as intended to be an attrition class, should have much much better poison application. Increasing Necro poison application would do so much for the class, regardless of spec. It would provide stronger condi cover for bleeds and increase Necros attribution capabilities w/o affecting PvE much. Chilblains should leave a poison field that actually ticks poison after triggered, and I would change barbed precision to inflict 1s of poison instead of bleeding.

1) Give Flesh Wurm the same range as Shadow Trap, make it only be castable at the Necro’s feet (to prevent teleport abuse), and make it a true teleport like Portal (so you don’t get stuck on blades of grass). Opens up possibilities for Necro to guard back point, and increases Necro mobility (something they sorely need).

2) Make the blast finisher/poison cloud effect occur at the Necro’s initial location.

You now have a wonderful tPvP skill that does not affect PvE balance in any way.

Follidus.8027:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Follidus.8027:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Guards is an instant cast, so by the time you see the animation, you will be knocked back—you have to bait it out or have stability or a stun breaker.

No it’s not. You can reliably react to the animation.

Oh, so there is a window? Okay, I’ll update it.

Well, it’s not instant. I was pretty sure you can react to it, but I just tested it to confirm.

It’s a subtle animation where your body starts moving. That and a good way to foresee it coming is when the person stops their auto attack and you see them start moving.

All of the downed state CCs can be reacted to, but IMO the ranger’s is the hardest to react to (feels like it’s the quickest to me and/or hardest to discern).

One thing I wanted to add but forgot to mention was that the Warrior’s and Engi’s CC counts as a projectile, and thus you can use skills that block/reflect projectiles to prevent the CC and finish the stomp. For example you can use Mesmer’s Feedback, which is an instant cast and thus can be cast mid-stomp, to prevent their CC from interrupting your stomp.

Also since it is a projectile with normal projectile mechanics, you can use things like terrain, NPCs, etc. to body block the CC/projectile to ensure the stomp. For example you can stand behind your Flesh Golem as a Necro and the CC will hit your Flesh Golem instead, allowing you to secure the stomp.

Tenderly.7019:

Skyro.3108:

Then make life siphoning traits scale with healing power (life siphoning skills already do)

No, they don’t currently scale with healing power. Not even a little.

There are only 4 siphon Necro skills:

Deadly Feast
Life Leech
Life Siphon
Signet of the Locust

All scale with healing power except I think Life Leech. I have tested in the past and Life Siphon and SotL scale with healing power (the healing portion of the skills), and Deadly Feast I never tested because it is an underwater skill which nobody cares about but apparently the wiki says it does.

However none of the Life Siphon traits (Vampiric, Bloodthirst, Vampiric Master, Vampiric Precision, Vampiric Rituals) scale with healing power at all and is just a flat number.

Login.5102:

Skyro.3108:

Login.5102:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I help new players learn Necromancer by actually helping/teaching them ingame. I’ve helped numerous people learn Necromancer. Necromancer is the only class that I do not charge Gems/Gold to teach.

As for the build, if you want to see it in action, contact me ingame. I will however tell you what the build focuses on, protection (Significant uptime of protection often nearing 60 seconds), blindness (Strongest condition in the game), and deathshroud (Constant building of Deathshroud to buffer cooldowns)

If you can replicate it from those 3 basic ideas, then you should be fine. It’s not a complicated build, but once again, I don’t share it with many people based upon the original player’s fears.

You can not get 60 sec of protection.

Is this your build?

0/0/30/20/20

Greater marks/well protection
Mark of evasion/well CD
Last gasp

WOB/WOD/WOP/WOC / plague form

Shamans amulet

S/d staff

Runes of earth

Spectral Attunement + Spectral Mastery + Spectral Wall alone gives you a base 15s protection on a 32s cooldown. Spectral Attunement also increases the duration of protection on Spectral Armor.

60>15

Can’t imagine a bunker necro going 20 into curses/ or taking sa/sw over a well build

I have no idea what a bunker necro spec would look like because I’ve never seen one in high level tPvP, but the point I was making was that SA + SM + SW is AFAIK the only way for a Necro to maintain high uptime of Protection due to the combination of long duration and relatively low cooldown (e.g. you use SWall for 15+s of prot, chain other prot abilities like SArmor during the cooldown, then use SWall again).

Login.5102:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I help new players learn Necromancer by actually helping/teaching them ingame. I’ve helped numerous people learn Necromancer. Necromancer is the only class that I do not charge Gems/Gold to teach.

As for the build, if you want to see it in action, contact me ingame. I will however tell you what the build focuses on, protection (Significant uptime of protection often nearing 60 seconds), blindness (Strongest condition in the game), and deathshroud (Constant building of Deathshroud to buffer cooldowns)

If you can replicate it from those 3 basic ideas, then you should be fine. It’s not a complicated build, but once again, I don’t share it with many people based upon the original player’s fears.

You can not get 60 sec of protection.

Is this your build?

0/0/30/20/20

Greater marks/well protection
Mark of evasion/well CD
Last gasp

WOB/WOD/WOP/WOC / plague form

Shamans amulet

S/d staff

Runes of earth

Spectral Attunement + Spectral Mastery + Spectral Wall alone gives you a base 15s protection on a 32s cooldown. Spectral Attunement also increases the duration of protection on Spectral Armor.

DarnDevil IV.2143:

lowfreq.3674:

spectral grasp sometimes says obstructed or out of range when its not.

corrupt boon does nothing sometime.

please fix this

The problems with spectral grab are related to all projectiles in the game.

Corrupt boon has been fixed for a while. You need to have vision on your target, be in range of it and face towards it in order for it to work. Take note that if your target dodges or uses an evading skill or you have blind on you, corrupt boon is ment to fail as it is only ‘unblockable’.

I recently learned via another thread on these forums that Corrupt Boon no longer requires you to face your target. I tested it yesterday and indeed this is true. I assume this was changed in the April patch when they made it unblockable.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Things to knows: Necro DS Stomp counter
If you are one of those professions that can interrupt a stomp and you are facing a necro who tries to DS stomp you. Without even scouting whether he has stability on Death Shroud or not, time your interrupt for the last moment of the stomp animation. It could save your life (Death Shroud stability doesn’t last the whole stomp animation).

This depends on the amount of boon duration the Necro has. If the Necro has 20 into death magic (20% boon duration) which is not uncommon, stability will last the entire duration (barring random server lag/de-syncing).

IMO, generally speaking, it is safer to CC the Necro ASAP to prevent them getting into stomping range to begin with, since they need to be in stomping range before activating death shroud.

yski.7642:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Bas.7406:

7). Zero ability to burst

Blatantly false. We have some of the strongest bursting in the game, which is only amplified when players are forced to stand on point with us.

Bas.7406:

5). Fear is the worst possible CC currently because it has a really short uptime and a really long downtime.

False. Fear is incredibly strong when used properly, and it is only amplified in group fights. Granted it is short duration, and has a ridiculous CD, it is still very useful.

Bas.7406:

3). Lack of boon access and a horribly healing ratio making them pointless bunkers.

False. While we have a lack of boons like other classes, we can make incredibly sturdy bunkers, without Minions.

Bas.7406:

6). Every class carries two condition removals at least including aoe (Guardians and Ele’s have a ton). Which means you may get a fear off, but a shout will clear it.

True… but we have the tools to outlast the condition removal. If they spec for that much condition removal, outside of Thief/Ranger, they will end up losing damage, or opening themselves up for severe damage (Corrupt Boon)

Bas.7406:

10) They have to be baby sat constantly by at least one class with a knockdown which means one of your roamers can’t roam.

Blatantly false. Necromancers do not need to be baby sat at all.

Agreed on the burst, we definitely have it.

Same on the fear – I could be wrong, but I can only come up with two instant cast CCs of the top of my head, the warrior shout “Fear me!” and our belowed DS #3 Doom that every necromancer has. Now here’s the funny part: both are fears. Since most CCs tend to have rather long cast times fear definitely has its place as the superior interrupting tool. Only daze gets even close to it yet fear also takes control of the enemy movement.

However, unless I’m missing something we definitely don’t have the tools to outlast anything. We severely lack ways of avoiding damage and we can’t outheal anything, so how could we possibly be bunkers? At best we can have lots of health and high toughness but it’s only a matter of time before our time runs out. Then again, I’d love to be proven wrong, so could you link us the magical build you’re using to suddenly make the impossible possible?

I’ve never went full out bunker with Necro before, but a sustain variant of a condi Necro goes 10 in blood with a shaman’s amulet. This essentially gives Necro perma-regen and makes them quite tanky (I go 0/10/20/10/20 with 10 points leftover to put how you see fit).

I’m still unsure if not being able to be healed in DS is intended or not. We’ve never heard from the devs on why this is. I’ve always assumed it was just a bug leftover from when DS used to be the Necro’s downed state, but it has remained in the game this long. If they allowed us to be healed in DS this would indirectly buff the Transfusion trait. Then make life siphoning traits scale with healing power (life siphoning skills already do) and buff deathly invigoration and I’m pretty sure it would be possible to make a bunker necro.

ANet wants to buff minion mancers so DS 5 will summon a Jagged Horror on a 180s CD.