Guild Wars 2

I have been away but this match up looks very tasty indeed, i cant wait to get on.

Ianervan.3415:

T

BT won every single time exactly because of zerg victory. Get off your high horse. BT isn’t #1 server because it’s the most skilled 1 on 1 but because it outzerged and outtimezoned other servers.

What exactly mean by zerg?

The term is bandied about but many conflate the concepts of mass pvp with “zerg”

killimandros.5087:

Snort.3698:

killimandros.5087:

These guys seriously believe theyre the king-pins of pvp hehehe.

If there were only some sort of empirical measure, a scoring system or something like that.
Then we could see how things stand. Perhaps a ranking of servers to see where people are relative to each other.
Then using these facts rather than hyperbole we could come to some conclusions. I know, there was a site that Syndic used in his post,

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/

Not to be an kitten but in the heat of moment, I personally know about quite a few guilds better organized and player by player than both CiR and unnamed. Not counting in the vast majority of players guilds in gw, that I dont know about. Youve always relied on the zerg, which is, as I mentioned an acceptable tactic. It doesnt make you any special though. All guilds can transfer up the ladders. Theres no restriction to that. Theres no test one have to pass. And what is quite amuzing me, is that you come here to the gunnar holds server to claim acknowledge of your abilities, which makes me believe you are probably not much else than cannon-fodder to saccy and chaos, amirite?

I am pretty sure your qualified to judge, you many successes speak for themselves.

In an earlier post I mentioned issues with GH, one was that a number of guilds there didnt understand the concept of mass pvp as it exists in this game at this time(thats is not to say it should not change)

You post is indicative of that shortcoming but not representative of GH.

As for our place on Blacktide, you would have to ask the other guilds.

As for how we do against other guilds, as we moved up the tiers we have yet to be rofl stomped but along with Naplolean I have always believed it is better to be lucky than to be good.

The vast majority left on GH are decent people, a tiny, tiny few talk the talk but…….

My favorite philosopher comes to mind when I am trolled in the manner you have.

Good luck to all on GH.

killimandros.5087:

These guys seriously believe theyre the king-pins of pvp hehehe.

If there were only some sort of empirical measure, a scoring system or something like that.
Then we could see how things stand. Perhaps a ranking of servers to see where people are relative to each other.
Then using these facts rather than hyperbole we could come to some conclusions. I know, there was a site that Syndic used in his post,

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/

Nidhogg.2950:

Snort.3698:

Its a language thing.

Misrepresent refers to other, non guildies in this context.

Ah allright, thanks. You have represented Blacktide, Unnamed and yourself here now very well so that should clear up misunderstandings.

Im sorry if you felt your guild was disrespected in this thread. Hope this puts it to rest and that the discussion stays on topic now.

That’s cool with me.

We had the unmanned bug at 10.30 gmt last night on the BT side.

it may be that people where tired after a very busy weekend push.

We will need to see how today goes.

Our next problem should we win is seeing if we can defend that position.

If there is a gear increase then as an old school min maxer i will want to grind it.

It would be a great pity if it was through PvE.

I dont get all the criticisms.

I have found the fights but interesting an fun.

I would argue that both other teams are very good and Blacktide just has the edge in organisation.

Wothan.4673:

@Snort, The UnNamed guild was the same guild that in War Karak Norn ?
If yes, you know if Moonlapse guild play on BT/GW2 also ?

Need to fight all this old name again

Hey mate , yes it is us the same guild. We played on Norn/Hirn.

I havent seen any Moonlapse that I am aware off.

Its a language thing.

Misrepresent refers to others, non guildies in this context.

btw had a good one earlier.

We portled Desolations zerg just as they portaled us at Northern supply camp.

We just swapped places.

Nidhogg.2950:

Despite being one of the core guilds on Blacktide you still want Gunnars to say you were one of ours to? We already admitted we miss your numbers. But truth be told, KISS could by itself hold more then one borderland and still have people to spare to assist us in other locations, their leaving has rather more of an impact as apart from numbers they were also able to communicate and negotiate.

You misunderstand.

I am interested in the facts, and a few people decided to misrepresent my guild. I am just correcting the record in regard to those who talked the talk and walked away. Had they said nothing I would have said nothing.

The facts don’t back up your contention. There is little evidence of holding zones in the last few weeks. this site has comprehensive data, http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#history

I had a reread of this too

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/67743-gunnars-hold-working-together/

A number of posters made themselves hostages to fortune

I am sure there were those who guaranteed that Kiss would never leave, such foolish claims were made in the past about other guilds and often such blanket statments prove silly.

Great responce from VS zerg on Hills, very speedy

Awesome fights with Iron and some Ruin in BT Bay keep.

Very well played.

Very high standards all around.

Strangely our zone is undermanned. I had a warband made up of random THUN, DKR,HRSY, CIR and INT. Was very good fun.

http://i.imgur.com/Ltac7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1rKMX.jpg

The quue this evening was 5 mins too, rather short for T1

Mushy.3964:

Snort.3698:

Mushy.3964:

CiR & those that left where never the ‘core’ of GH.

You couldn’t be more correct.

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/

GH was going down hill before those guilds left due to us not having the 24/7 coverage, those Guilds that left, left so they could be on a winning server with 24/7 coverage. As you already know Snort.

I am curious on the day they left where was GH. Where are they now?

Where was Blacktide, where are they now.

24 hour coverage was one issue.

Another issue just left GH.

There were more than two issues but these were the most ‘visible’.

Its a pity as there are nice people left on GH who I enjoyed sharing a server with.

Ianervan.3415:

Levetty.1279:

Another guild going for some easy mode WvWvW,

Please stop with that. You know what’s easy mode? It’s all those casual people on bottom servers who login to WvW for 1 hour a week to kill raptors and want others to pour time into WvW and win for them so they get crafting bonuses. That’s easy mode.

Have you ever seen what stronger servers do? They use tons of their own money for siege equipment, for keep upgrades, for food/nourishments. Some even change their sleep schedule.

Easy mode is being on a low ranked server and preaching morality to competitive players and guilds who want nothing but competitive environment where others put in effort too, instead of switching/staying on low ranked server to “prove” something.

Competitive players/guilds have nothing to do on low ranked servers, it contradicts the competitive nature. The only reason why someone would be on low ranked PvE server is because there is no invisibility there, and thus you actually see people you’re fighting (which can be fun).

Very Very true, one thing that has struck me as we have moved up the tiers is that the standard is also higher.

If those in the lower tiers who think they could compete if they got some sort of fantasy"prime time only" match up they would find them facing tactics and strategy they werent ready for, players who prepare and look for every edge. i though i was on a well prepared and coordinated server until I moved to Blacktide.

Its tough at the top but great great fun.

The standard is vastly higher simply because it has to be the opposition makes you better or you lose. Elite, casual are meaningless terms. look at the scores , look at the trends and recogonise the game for how it is designed at the moment.

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/

good VS group in BT borderlands at mo.

Mushy.3964:

CiR & those that left where never the ‘core’ of GH.

You couldn’t be more correct.

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/

Very important question. If its usable in pvp then we have to PvE?

A set for karma would be a fine idea.

I wonder will it be obtainable from pvp?

Moving is perfectly reasonable. The good less casual guilds are going to progress to the top slots in search of like minded players and the challenges found there.

If you look at the scores each week the bottom 3-6 servers on each ladder are approaching the point of not contesting WvW, while certainly in Europe the population in tier 1 -3 is still relatively high.

The dark Irish gods have scorned me for the last time, the kittens.

saVdoom.2067:

Prime time, as per usual, we do very good a

Scroll down to the income evolution from a few weeks ago.

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/12/5

I don’t think that Desolation and VS should be too hard on themselves. I have played a lot of the weekend both early and late and the fights have been very good.

I would add VS to the servers that have impressed me as we have progressed. In terms of Deso that there recent success owes a lot to its loyal player base.

I enjoyed VS tenacity last night in BT borderlands,It took a lot of effort to take them our of the zone. They fought to the very last. In the same zone Deso had fought tooth and nail for bay. I stayed up a bit later than intended as the fights were so good.

I suspect that at the moment that Blacktide’s main advantage is we have a lot of independent guilds that are willing to do the tedious work setting up the playing field so that it is in our favor. We have allied voice comms and a permanent chat channel for all warband leaders and of course that hunger to make sure we don’t go straight into tier one and back down the same week.

Allied to this we have some very strong fighting forces across time zones and we are probably as close to a 24/7 server in the game.

I would suggest that it is through recruitment and organisation that Blacktide rose, recognizing that the sum is more powerful than the parts.

Joriel.1530:

So this is BT gap/weak spot around 11pm gmt? judging by the income

yep all the russians are gone and all the workers in EU time slot log off.

Bahamzero.6783:

tita.6358:

Snort.3698:

BTW question to VS what servers have sucessfully defended their position as number 1?

none . BT will be the first

VS did it for over a month

Are they the only ones to do so?

A good nights Pvp and a good weekends.

Points are good now but i wonder will the weekdays change things?

Whats the score at the moment?

How does the BT score compare to the other two added together?

It is night time for the Russians(after midnight) now has there been a change in score?

It seems a little mean on IRON really and the rest of Desolation. I am sure they made a contribution. Interesting to get RUINs official postion though.

As for BT you can only beat whats in front of you so thats fine, we can concentrate on this match up.

BTW question to VS what servers have sucessfully defended their position as number 1?

VS in the BT Borderlands what are you building?

Knasher.5607:

Snort.3698:

what IP’s are you pinging and where did you get the ip for the game server?

If you type /ip into the chat window I use the ip address that comes up. I am making the assumption that this is accurate but I should probably verify it by checking what addresses I’m connected to when in game. Also I’m not pinging them, either the servers don’t respond to ICMP echo requests or my ISP is blocking them somewhere along the way, but I haven’t had a lot of luck with ping. I am using traceroute instead, which isn’t being blocked on any of the hops it is making.

(Sorry I can’t post the ip I’m using, I’m writing this from work [looks around nervously for boss])

Thats great was wondering how to go about doing a traceroute

Knasher.5607:

Exewre.2837:

Lol an internet site
Keep your informatic tips and lessons
Just type a simple command in Dos. Period

Weris is correct, the servers are in Germany. If I run traceroute (or tracert if you are in dos) on the server ip I get a round trip time of about 30 milliseconds. (I’m in Europe). Comparatively the same command to the University of Texas, which is in Austin, gives a rtt of 120 ms and a server based in the New York area gives a rtt of 70ms. A 30ms rtt to Austin simply isn’t possible, in fact a new low latency fiber optic link between New York and London is currently being built which will give a rtt of about 62ms (a 5ms improvement). 30ms to anywhere in America, simply isn’t possible.

what IP’s are you pinging and where did you get the ip for the game server?

It was quiet last night, fought over a tower againts Elona.

I am worried that the step up will be difficult.

We will just have to try our best.

ComeAndSee.1356:

So remove swords and you guys here posting can be the guy camping them for 3-5 hours a night and calling out inc.

I am ok with that. It will reward those who are organised and punish the herd.

Syndic.4762:

Reason why they’re asking you (and everyone else they can think of) is because GH has been bleeding WvW players ever since the WvW guilds that pulled GH into T3-T4 left the server. A lot of their WvW players transfer over to Blacktide and apply to join either ThUn, DkR, or CIR.

For example, we (the WvW guilds that left GH) have a mumble for leaders and we never bothered to change the password. Every few days we get [KISS]Rhea Metalworker connecting to our WvW mumble to check things out.

Was wondering what that guy was doing popping into mumble all the time, though he was just a fan boy

@syn You forgot to mention HRSY and INT.

In an aside 1200 is very impressive numbers, we don’t have that even if we count those 5 guilds and add in RG, WIC, nug ,gf and Xaos. Well done.

However with this 1200 I am curious and this new found organisation that the ranking has fallen. Then we had the hacking which was thankfully sorted out and now spying. A strange metric for being better off, no?

@Genev you need to remember that there were those who rather foolishly guaranteed that our guild would not leave. You need to take everything with a pinch of salt.

This is an interesting suggestion. i would like to try it.

Perhaps a mod can move it to spvp?

Besetment.9187:

Most aoe buffs (those that grant boons or have a pulsing effect) are capped to 5.

Stacking does not exploit aoe cap (at least not in the way you are thinking). It exploits ground targeted physical barriers like Wall of Reflection and Sanctuary, traits that reduce the cooldown of these skills and via rotation allow you to have permanent or near permanent uptime provided you have enough guardians in the correct ratio running the correct builds.

The direct counter to any kind of Zerg or Stack is to wait for them to attack a map marker. Arrow carts (especially superior ones in sufficient numbers) can keep a force of any size outside arrow cart range because the damage is huge and doesn’t have a target cap. Ballistas (especially superior ones) are used to force Zergs to spread out and to deter them from storming choke points. You have to fall back to longer range siege (catapults or terbuchets) or stealth rushes (i.e. portal trained golem rush under cover of crossed swords) where the aim is to burn down a wall or gate before it can be adequately defended.

Due to the concentration of force, Zergs overcome all individual weakness by running with lots of other players who cover those weaknesses, rez them up when they go down, grant them benefits from skills they would not otherwise have access to and provide limitless combo opportunities etc.

The price of this is that you need alot of players in the Zerg to make it effective, which means less players spread out across the map. Your information gathering suffers. Your ability to react to simultaneous assaults on multiple objectives becomes limited (you have to choose one or the other or split up).

Zerging is really not a problem. A clever team will exploit the fact that the Zerg’s strength is entirely concentrated in one location. All you need to do is make sure your team can read a map and that your team has effective scouting and communication so you know where the Zerg is and where its going at all times.

A clever team will not try to fight a battle they know they cannot win. They will try to fight multiple battles they know the Zerg cannot be in at the same time. A clever team trades towers/keeps for better ones that can be used against the enemy team later. For instance, Losing West Keep whilst simultaneously attacking Garrison and South West Tower is to me, a good trade as long as you can take and hold either the Tower or the Garrison.

Why? It gives you a location from which you can trebuchet West Keep and deny supply to it without being easily counter sieged. Both South West Tower and Garrison can be counter sieged but you have to split up your forces to hold either the Northern Towers (from which you can safely treb Garrison) or Ruins (from which you can safely treb South West Tower, but only if you can commit enough forces to Ruins to protect the siege without giving up West Keep).

All of these maneuvers are meant to split enemy forces and test their ability to remain coordinated when their Zerg needs to divide down and reform.

superb points

How is the score at the moment?

The handover from yesterday didnt work so well, we lost a lot of keeps. Lets try and defend well when we do it this afternoon.

good stuff here, listen

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Remove-Orange-Swords-and-Other-Propositions/first#post650357

1. yes. Makes it organisation friendly.

2. no, too powerful

3. they will not do it, it takes revenue away from them

4. interesting

I am in the same boat, I listened and changed my mind good idea.

40 mins in for those who want to listen.

Thanks I will watch it.

and No dont remove them.

I have used this and faced it.

last night we wiped to a massive portal, we ressed came back and destroyed it.

There are counters.

Just because you can not counter it doesnt mean it should go.

I have seen servers over use it. I love to see this as I did last night. The enemy server we face all portaled around. they lost everything bar a keep because they were not willing to break apart.

Portalling is a tool, understand it, use it and know how to counteract it.

Tactics that punish the lazy, the porr and the stupid and weahen the zerg should always be retained

Haralin.1473:

Sorry to interrupt the self-adulation of the top 6 EU Server, but mostly they are there cause of more players in the night and morning of EU Primetime.

There are server in the lower tiers which also have good player and good organisation, for example SFR is one very good EU Server (playerskill). I have fought against Desolation, Elona and FS and must say SFR was better in fights at EU Primetime.

Thre is no such thing as Primetime.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Night-Capping-and-YOU/first

Therefore to talk about who is best in primetime is meaningless.

There are a a few things that are meaningful.

Recognizing the nature of the game.

Adapting to it.

Getting organinized.

Avoiding excuses

and finally the score.

Thanks for that.

Natureswarden.5102:

Thanks we appreciate the sentiment and actually I have had a few nice pms from a few FR server players stating that this is not the majority view.

I think the people here from FR coming into a deso thread and passing judgement on where they steered a thread is ridiculous. Take it out onto the field we will see who tops out at the end of the week and if deso looses its just gives them more incentive to keep trying.

The two great curses of this game are jealousy and graceless losers. I have come across both. I consider it a balm to look at the various score boards. With out fail, the graceless and jealous populate servers in freefall.

It is rather simple, those who organise prosper, that organisation takes a lot of work. When others are not willing to put it in they hang their arguments on an excuse. “There are too many americans, all the good guilds left, its all zergs, we were night capped, primetime, primetime….etc”

I see guilds such as Ruin as taking the brave decision, they saw that a strategic change was needed to compete at highest level.

Dont get me wrong, some dont want to compete at that level they want to potter about in the middle tier and that perfectly fine. They dont aspire to winning and this game is big enough for these different outlooks. In fact as a game it offers so many options.

However this is the wvwvw forum and many here are competitors.

So best of luck to you guys on desolation EU and NA.

Lets hope we can get up to that tier to kick your butts.

Best wishes

Snort – Blacktide

Sorry what is the latest score?

Sorry, just to check.

What servers have been in the EU Number one spot? The tope slot in the top tier?

Vizunah Square

Arborstone

Elona Reach

Am I correct?

Woudl Desoaltion be only the 4th server to do so?

I am not sure where to post this so i wll do so here.

Ina number of threads( some now closed) I have seen a lot of anti Americanism, mostly directed at the Ruin guild.

I just wanted to say that that this vocal minority does not reflect the European attitude as a whole. Americans are welcome to play on our servers, they bring much to the game.

PS Dont forget to vote.

there are two metrics worth recording.

We are having fun.

We are winning.

Project Blacktide continues

Guys complaining, you have to remmeber to master the game you need to master the meta game.