Guild Wars 2

ronpierce.2760:

Zxavier Augistine.7312:

i have to admit, i personally am not a fan of the necro, I’ve ignored every sub forum about classes i don’t play. every time I’ve heard necromancer mains cry and moan about how weak their class is i used to laugh and think back of all the times i would get hit with a 4k life blast in wvw and think you guys really need a nerf.

that being said, i read this article, and i have a new found respect for necros in every game type. it opened my eyes to your problems and i feel bad that i was ignorant for so long. Anet needs to work on your class give you guys a buff, i hated reading that article since it listed off so many points that are valid. the entire time in pve land i don’t ever remember seeing a necro in any of my dungeon or fractal parties. i hope that Anet gives you guys some love soon.

I like you. If you ever die, I’ll make you a minion for sure.

Corpseploitation. #NeverForget

Bhawb.7408:

CodeHavoc.7926:

Yeah, it was a bit underhanded and hugely unnecessary especially when the devs themselves welcomed feedback. I guess one of the Mods have something against necros? ?_?

The mods felt the title was too click-baity, and it was reposted not that long afterwards with a more “appropriate” title. It wasn’t actually removed.

I had a similar thing happen to a topic about my post about elite skills. The person who had posted it had apparently posted too many links to my site, and was presumed to be a spammer. So the topic was removed already after it was being discussed and commented on heavily.

Needless to say, I dislike the heavy-handed approach to feedback and critique that I observe from the subreddit.

Link to the reddit discussion as it has a lot of varying thoughts expressed on it as well.

As for the argument “they owe the community nothing”, yes, that is true. However, silently leaving doesn’t give reasons, nor does it truly help in the long-term.

As someone interested in seeing the game succeed (even if I don’t have a literal financial stake in it), it is better that I say why I don’t like something, and what it causes than to remain silent and go away. Only a lot of people leaving have a similar effect, and that’s assuming that ArenaNet is able to tease out why they left.

In essence, I’m communicating what I see in as clear a means I can, rather than simply walking away without a word. And based on the responses I’ve gotten, I’m not alone.

Earlier today we had the first Guild Wars 2 Community Round Table, an open discussion by members of the community about the community.

The topic for this meeting was two-fold: What is the role of the Guild Wars 2 community, and how can ArenaNet support it?

What is the role of the Guild Wars 2 Community?
Individuals

• Doing something they enjoy
• Getting recognized for it
• Gaining skills they might use professionally (and a portfolio to prove it)

Art (in the form of drawings/sculptures/crafts)

• Similar to individuals’ goals, but specific expression

Game communities / server communities

• Everything’s tied into the game, brings more people into playing the game
• Recruiting (from other games, from real life friends) increases game’s popularity
• A good chance to bring people together for charity / big events
  Universal roles:
• To make friends, connections, networking, collaboration
• Talk about the game, see what can make it better, communicate that “better” to ArenaNet
• Inform the rest of the community (both within Guild Wars 2 and outside of it)
• Ultimately, to increase the popularity of Guild Wars 2
  • Thus making ArenaNet more money so they can keep updating the game

ASIDE: Megaservers have killed the server atmosphere due to dilution (hurts the community)
There’s a balance between “we can complete this content” and “maintaining the atmosphere”

• Servers were fully on “maintaining the atmosphere”
• Megaserver is fully on “we can complete this content”
• No choice of districts (see: Guild Wars 1)
  • Taxis, softcaps, and hardcaps are inefficient for bringing players together for big events
• Makes events harder to put on (can’t choose where to go in advance)

How can ArenaNet support the community?

• The company is hard-pressed to be fair and all-encompassing, community is too big
  • Need to look at investment potential (can we prove it’s worth the time investment?)

• YouTube has “Community Influencers”
  • Based on subscribers/views/uptake, get benefits to improve coverage
• Used to be a list of blogs that got to ask the devs specific questions
  • Didn’t bring people “in”, more serves to interest the community that already exists
  • YouTube/Twitch might bring in people from “outside” the Guild Wars 2 community
• Ten Ton Hammer, Massively OP, etc., are considered press, don’t focus on any one game
• Get information in advance as news outlets
• Fan blogs might be too “close” to the game, don’t bring people in from outside

There is a need to stand for ourselves, to “prove” the investment potential

• How? Collaborate together to meta-cover all the events, activities, etc.
  • Mass aggregator website?
• There’s a lack of central hub
• Cross-advertisement
  • Guest writers
  • Collaborations
  • Recommendations of Others
  • With more collaboration, the competition angle becomes less important
    • No reason to only promote a blog guide when a YouTube video shows it better

Next Steps

• Another meeting (later time to involve America better)
• No recording
• Just notes, as shown here
• Sunday, 5PM UTC+0

Meetings are held on a TeamSpeak server, for server information (and any questions about the Community Round Table), email communityroundtable[at]toughlovecritic[dot]com.

Our next topic: How can the community collaborate together?
Date and Time: Sunday, April 5th, 5PM UTC+0

Personally, I’d favor reversing it to match the demo functionality of gliders.

In other words, once you spend a mastery point you get the ability. However, to be able to spend mastery points on the next tier you need to fill the bar.

This means that the act of spending mastery points gives the ability, but there is an experience-based cooldown associated to generate progression/time invested.

aspirine.6852:

If you whine enough as pve player you get what you want.

Eh…It’s taken two and a half years of whining. I’m thinking that the reasoning is different: World completion is expanding with the expansion.

Just going to leave this little link here. Oh, and this one (forgive their typo).

Well, Heart of Thorns will be substantially prettier than Dry Top and the Silverwastes, so at least it’s not a pile of sand.

The verticality of it seems like it’s semi-optional if you don’t want to go to every nook and cranny. Sure, a glider will be a requisite early on, but endless jumping puzzles everywhere wouldn’t be a good thing for map design or keeping player interest.

So I’d hold off on seeing what it is in practice, before saying “well, vertical = jumping everywhere = major turnoff.”

I just used wait and see. Oh gosh, what is wrong with me.

There’s many different ways to go about it, but the most important thing right now is that the mass of karma long-time players have needs to be drained out. Then, there’s a good case for adding more ways to spend it. Right now, the sheer mass of karma is a disincentive to making items for the currency.

(I’ve covered this idea in more detail in Bad Karma: Restoring Value to a Worthless Currency)

Dancing with the Dragon

WARNING: The following is extreme speculation bordering on outright wishful thinking. I don’t expect to see it at all, but it would be endlessly cool if it did happen.

What if we take this one step forward from direct or indirect interactions with NPCs and situations, and apply it to every interaction with the denizens of the Heart of Maguuma?

Facing the Corruption

Sylvari don’t just get special dialogue, their position on the spectrum changes their options entirely. Rather than dealing with the same threats, having the same allies in all situations, and playing the exact same events as everyone else, who they have shown themselves to be determines a portion of their experience.

On the one side, let a corrupted sylvari obtain an optional buff that marks them as such. While holding the buff, their damage to Mordremoth’s specific minions is much lower, but Mordrem will see them as allies in certain areas and ignore them completely.

Likewise, events that would usually be inaccessible because of their location deep in hostile territory (vines blocking the way, environmental hazards, etc.), are available to someone masquerading as a servant of the jungle dragon.

Flipping it to the other side, a noble sylvari becomes a walking target with his buff. Mordrem try to take him down and bring him under the dragon’s thrall. But allies that would have normally been indifferent or hostile come to his aid regularly. Just like a corrupted one, events unavailable to others are open to him.

Taking a Side

For non-sylvari, their choices can also result in a buff. A suspicious character would get the option to open fire on (non-player) sylvari when they aren’t clearly under control, and accept the consequences that might entail. Potentially despicable? Sure, but it’s directly integrating the narrative into the gameplay. In the midst of their general pogrom, they will gain the favor of noble sylvari and their allies, giving them similar benefits.

For sympathetic characters, the reverse is true. They get the option to help isolated sylvari, gaining the favor of those courting corruption itself, and giving similar benefits.

(I should note that for both these cases, this is on the edge of what I consider ArenaNet would accept as potential features and content, but leaving the sylvari as the only race with special options is exclusionary and I’d prefer to avoid it)

Rewarding the Choice

Taking things in this direction is directly informing the experience of Heart of Thorns by a character’s personal choices. It’s utterly unlike anything we’ve seen before in Guild Wars 2. (Hence, why I think it extremely unlikely.)

But aside from the exclusive content (which will likely be minor), offer a title for time spent or events completed while under the more stringent requirements of the buff. A player will have to change his or her play style to accommodate either Mordrem being near-impossible to kill or that local bunch of sylvari being an escort load. It’s gameplay-reinforced roleplaying, and the achievement of having done it should be recognized.

What About Us?

With all of these ways that Heart of Thorns could extend the narrative beyond simply being a story point, it begs the question, “what about us, the players?” This is a terrific opportunity to have fun with the lore and story, having light roleplaying among players of different in-game races and backgrounds.

Even if most of what I wrote isn’t going to happen, the chance for the player base to make their own fun in a different direction than the norm should not be missed. It can mean attending the next MordyMoot or equipping an entire skill bar with nothing but fire and napalm and tromping off to the Village of Astorea loaded for bear.

By the way, my sylvari Talifa wanted to say, #PraiseMordy.

This post was copied and formatted verbatim from its original location.

Making It Matter

What Did You Say?

At the very least, injecting a touch of personality around the core conflict would have to trigger different conversations, similar to the first set. To do it well, it couldn’t just be the current dignity/charm/ferocity dialogue tree choice. NPCs would have to have different lines depending on the sort of character approaching. Taking a minimal approach, that’s six potential lines per NPC (good/neutral/“evil” sylvari, suspicious/neutral/sympathetic non-sylvari).

That’s a tall order, which is why I don’t think it’s as likely. But consider if it was there. A player’s choices over the course of the story would matter, and be directly experienced in ways that text can never convey. Sure, it’s minor nods here and there, but imagine the first time a Pact survivor screams “_Stay away from me, you traitor!_” That would have an effect.

Now what if that sylvari came back, having explored the Heart of Maguuma and survived against Mordremoth’s wiles, and that same NPC quietly mumbled, “I’m…sorry for what I said. I was wrong. Thank you.”

This is my Story

Want four of the most hopeful words ever uttered in an opening cinematic? “This is my story.” Depending on who you ask, it was your story through level 30, level 50, or not ever at any point. Honestly, the personal story became a “pick two almost-identical-options, neither is wrong” very soon after the initial two arcs. And after picking an order, the plot from thenceforth was functionally determined. It didn’t feel personal, it didn’t have the feeling of choice.

With detection of where on the spectrum a character lies over time, a character can get the option to branch their storyline in that direction. A sylvari daring the corruption could get different missions than the one refusing to be seen in wrong company. A sympathetic non-sylvari could be assigned as leader of a sylvari-based advance scout, while a suspicious one goes with a different set of folks entirely.

Unique Rewards

With six different possible stances, it’s a low enough number that offering unique rewards for finishing the campaign in one stance confers a cosmetic benefit related to their choices. These could be specifically character-bound, even as skins, conferring a character permanence while not really locking players off (5 character slots by default in Guild Wars 2 and Heart of Thorns might add more if previous expansions from Guild Wars are indicative).*

*Granted, those folks who either love sylvari or hate them might be SoL, but there is always an edge case.

To give some thrown-out-there examples:

• Corrupted sylvari: Mordremoth-exclusive orange glow
• Noble sylvari: Pale Tree-type white facial aura
• Suspicious of sylvari: Unique fire-based skin (Burn them all!)

PvP Adventures

Since adventures, leaderboards, and timed activities are going to be a thing going forward in the expansion, why not riff on the Branded Corruption event of Beta Weekend Event 2?

In a PvP-based activity, one team is “corrupted” sylvari, while the other is either uncorrupted or non-sylvari. Cull the infestation with each side having different skills across jungle terrain, sort’ve like Evolve but with even numbers.

To give a nod to the sylvari part of the equation, no player is restricted from being on the corrupted team, but they will get a random “corrupted skin” as opposed to getting to keep their character’s look for the activity.

And since it’s an activity/adventure/pick-your-nomenclature, there is no extreme negative of open world PvP. Players decide to do the activity instead of it being forced upon them.

Sylvari are created by the jungle dragon! It’s awesome no matter which way you dice it, leading to lots of speculation over what it will mean to have a player race that is capable of being irredeemably evil (even if the players aren’t actually evil).

But rather than speculate on where the story might go with Mordremoth and his estranged creations, I’d like to speculate on what sort of things ArenaNet could build into the expansion to take advantage of the high-level narrative and make it more interesting for the player base to engage in.

NOTE: These are ordered from what I consider most likely to least likely.

Different NPC Reactions

NPC reactions are already confirmed to be a way that ArenaNet will highlight how sylvari are viewed now (see: this teaser trailer and Laranthir’s dialogue in the PAX demo). With a little help from some monstrously large vines, they just downed the entire Pact fleet. No non-sylvari is going to look at their resident salad without being suspicious. Sylvari players will have to deal with the justified suspicion, and maybe even racism, that their kindred’s actions has caused.

Seeing It from Outside

But I consider it just as likely that non-sylvari players will get similar approaches. They’ll get to see strained relations between sylvari and non-sylvari, perhaps even be prodded in dialogue to keep a close eye on “That minion over there.”

What’d be really cool, but I haven’t observed in the existing world, is if conversations were context-sensitive. If I, as an asura, approach with a sylvari in my party nearby, what if a Pact survivor eyes me with disdain and calls out my “untrustworthy ally?”

Proven Worth

Another way to distinguish sylvari could be incorporated into the mastery system, since that’s a clearly tracked total. Sylvari just starting without a wink of Heart of Maguuma mastery are scum of the earth, two steps away from betraying everyone.

Meanwhile, someone with a few dozen points is a proven ally to the cause of taking down Mordremoth, unaffected or able to resist the dragon’s siren call. NPCs might even defer to such a player, as she’s likely been to the darker side of the dragon’s will and survived.

Revisiting a System to Give It More Personality

Between the April and September 2014 Feature Packs, the personality system that used to be part of a character’s identity has been made invisible, outside of select NPC conversations. As best I can figure (I can’t find any developer statement), it was functionally removed because it had no point beyond personal story.

Being a captivating mountebank, or a daring scoundrel, or a noble knight had zero effect on 99% of the game. And the work required to build effects in, even if it’s pre-programmed NPC reaction lines when a player passes by, is immense.

That’s why I think it got quietly swept under the rug of UI updates and never mentioned again, like that embarrassing event at the family reunion seven years ago. For something that would still be minor in effect, tons of hours would have to be devoted to making it a reality.

Exploring Shades of the Spectrum

RPGs are built to encourage personality, even MMOs, a genre famous for either poor story, poor player agency, or both. And with the overall narrative of who sylvari are, I see a golden opportunity to build into Heart of Thorns the central tension of who a given sylvari really is, minion or friend.

It’s a given that no player is going to be allowed to be evil; it doesn’t fit the “you’re a hero, this is your story” meta-narrative that the game as a whole has. The same reasoning has been why the Inquest, Nightmare Court, and the like haven’t been options for players.

But what if a sylvari could shift among all points of the evil/good spectrum without actually being evil? What if during the personal story and other instances, a sylvari has the option to do some shadowy work, infiltrating among corrupted sylvari or Nightmare Court? What if they could listen to “the voice” just that little bit, but refuse the corruption?

On the other side, another sylvari can be bound and determined to clear his name against the scourge of Mordremoth’s name. He hates the accursed dragon and wants to take it down even more than his allies.

For non-sylvari, a similar spectrum is present: suspicion vs. sympathy. Either a charr doesn’t trust a salad as far as she can throw them, or she doesn’t believe her leafy friends are weak enough to fall to a dragon’s influence. Or anywhere in between.

Honestly, I think a better solution should be to offer the ability to split Fractal runs, doing each fractal separately as time permits rather than all at once.

I won’t take credit for the full idea (that belongs to ohoni and braballa), but here’s some options for implementing such an idea: Splitting Out Fractal Runs

Linken.6345:

A commando with hammer wouldent that be a combat engineer?

Or to use Army parlance, a Sapper.

Me, I’ve shifted among dungeons, Fractals, and presently Silverwastes. I’m weird in that I don’t do Silverwastes for the farming, though. I like the event flow.

ProtoGunner.4953:

I have a question, the wiki article is a bit unclear about this. To join a squad do I need the commander compendium? And if yes, why in Tyria’s Gods’ name did they do that?

No, to join a squad you just need to right click the commander’s name on the map. You can also right click the commander’s portrait when targeted or in party and get the same option to “Join Squad.”

Commander’s Compendium only unlocks the ability to create a squad, and all commander functionality is based around hitting that button.

True, true, but I will call people on it rather than just shrug and say “that’s the internet.” People are practically trained to read one-sentence “sound bites” these days, so a blatantly wrong one like that is very damaging if not addressed.

hybrid.5027:

Yeah but you’re the guy who says control isn’t used in PvE and elementalists have the worst control skills of all the classes.

edit: and when people point out how wrong that is you delete their comment.

I updated that post to better reflect the meta specifically in relation to people’s feedback, and at no point did I say elementalists have the worst control skills, even in the original post.

As for your edit, I have never, and will never, delete any comment on my blog. I do have moderation on, and sometimes I’m asleep when comments get posted.

I don’t appreciate you misconstruing what I have said (or outright lying about what I’ve done) to fit your impression of me. It’s insulting and only weakens your own opinion.

Agreed that regular, more difficult instanced content needs to be added to the game, so much so that I wrote…way too many words about ways to improve dungeons and Fractals (especially Fractals):

Fixing Fractals: A Comprehensive Look at Content, Expansion, and Rewards
A Data Driven Approach to Dungeon Rewards

Kal Spiro.9745:

The nothing I speak of is the concept that skill points will just vanish as an acquirable resource, especially for those who are not purchasing HoT. You decided that was true based on your own imagination. No one from ANet made anything like that claim. You are the one freaking out about imaginary trespasses.

I didn’t say that, either. I said that it would not be available for people who preferred playing non-high level content, since skill points are shifting off of leveling and onto hard encounters.

Does that affect hardcore players, or even people who like doing hard stuff but only have so many hours? No. It does affect the much larger majority who prefer doing other things.

Draknar.5748:

How many people do you honestly think will continue playing GW2 without the expansion? I mean, people are up in arms wanting more content, Anet delivers, and you feel a large group of people will be like “nah I’m good.”?

Because the expansion costs money, a fair number. For some people, throwing more money at a game isn’t in the budget because more important things take precedence. They might consider it when the money’s there, and my viewpoint is geared toward enticing them to buy it at that time, rather than saying “nah, I’m good, I’ll go buy this other game.”

Kal Spiro.9745:

So you made an assumption based on nothing, called it a fact, and then just went forward complaining about your ephemeral factoid? Thanks for a pointless thread based on nothing.

I don’t consider anything regarding the economy “nothing,” but that might be a bias of mine. I’m hypersensitive to anything that might affect the economy when applied en masse, because I’ve seen ArenaNet have the same approach with how they effect updates.

Vergil, I do appreciate you condensing my argument down to a straw man. It is so refreshing.

Linken.6345:

TaCktiX.6729:

They did their deep delve on masteries. That’s what my posts were in reaction to.

“How Do I Get Masteries?

The ability to train Masteries is unlocked at level 80 for all players that own Heart of Thorns. When this ability is unlocked, your character’s experience bar will change to become a Mastery training bar while in PvE zones."

From that very blog post you reacted to, clearly states if you dont own heart of thorns you wont be able to train mastery hence it will be as it is now if you dont own the expansion.

Guess we ended this thread now.

And in the post I made I brought that up. For economic reasons, I doubt that the skill point will remain for those who don’t have the expansion.

Bunji, your logic presumes that a player will play through the entirety of Heart of Thorns content without ever swapping to a different one to experience a different play style, or fill a specific party niche, etc.

Yes, there are a few people who might play the expansion like that, but for those who ever change character, it’s not fair to them to reset their progress when they just wanted to bring their guardian instead of their ranger to help out the group. The same false logic plagued Fractals before they made personal reward account-bound.

They did their deep delve on masteries. That’s what my posts were in reaction to.

Aeolus.3615:

My interpretation form the HoT apresentation:

Masteries will only be used on the new pve map…. players that dont have the new pve map dont need them……

But the blog post about masteries proves this to be false. Why would the core game get new masteries that are forced to be separate from the Heart of Maguuma masteries, to the point of no tracks overlapping, if masteries will only be used in the Heart of Maguuma?

Solori.6025:

I don’t think this will change.
Just like in GW1 if you didn’t buy the expansion you didn’t get new classes, you didn’t get new armor,achievements, zones, dungeons, etc.

This is a false comparison. In GW1, the expansion added a brand new, geographically separate continent. For Factions, only a couple quests tied into Prophecies to create a “ferry” over. For Nightfall, there were some bonus heroes to gain from owning both Nightfall and another campaign. Even Eye of the North, the only official expansion, only added some tie-in quests.

In this case with GW2, the masteries system is simultaneously being backported to the original game. It’s a core progression system, but based on what has been said it will be unavailable to people who own the core game but not the expansion.

Myrden.2456:

You are losing none of the game if you don’t buy the expansion. You just won’t get as much as others who do pay for it. That sounds like good old-fashioned free market to me. What am I missing?

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see the problem. HOT access characters with masteries don’t impact a non-HOT’s character to access the part of the game they paid for.

As for not locking masteries behind HOT … give us a break. You’re kidding? So basically you just think it should be free … for reasons?

It’s not a matter of not getting as much. As stated at present, a non-expansion player will have their end-game character progression (gaining skill points by leveling) stripped out and replaced by nothing.

And as I stated in the linked post, it’s not a matter of “getting it for free.” I even specifically addressed that point.

Rin.1046:

TaCktiX.6729:

Two words: development time. If the entire system is built from the ground up to be account unlocks, then creating an option would be duplicate code in a lot of places.

You’re right. IF.

I’ll let Anet decide if it is possible and worth doing. I’m just putting the idea out there, because I think it is important and beneficial to give players options.

Me as well, it’s one of the paradigms I try to bring into my suggestions where I can. I suppose since I would massively benefit from account bound and have no interest in character binding masteries, I’m being more lenient on the system than I would be otherwise.

All good points. Let’s hope that the “middle option” is what’s gone to each time.

Two words: development time. If the entire system is built from the ground up to be account unlocks, then creating an option would be duplicate code in a lot of places.

I would like to have a discussion with the people most likely to care. Due to my typical length of posting (both linked posts are short for me), using the Guild Wars 2 forums requires me to break it into multiple pieces. So rather than create a massive wall of text here, I put it on my own blog where I have greater control over how it displays.

I sure hope so. I, uh, might want to try out some of that challenging group content coughraidscough.

Tom Gore.4035:

It’s a two-edged sword. Giving less incentive for players to buy the expansion will also act as a fracturing element.

Well it could work, as a “gate theory”. It could also backfire, in a way that people who are on the edge don’t buy the expansion because they don’t feel compelled to do it, and then quit playing and never get that “itch” enough.

I unfortunately don’t have any solid statistics, but I’m guessing that an overwhelmingly large portion of the expansion buyers will buy it on day 1 and the following ~1 month. As Anet I would want to maximize that hype and “frenzy” as much as possible.

Agreed on the two-edged sword aspect. The problem is that neither of us know which edge is sharper to ArenaNet. They do, I assume.

Either way, thank you for the good points. It’s refreshing not to get a one-sentence writeoff.

I’m alright with that. I’d rather the feedback exist, even if in hindsight it’s irrelevant, rather than it never be made because details to fully support it weren’t around. Think of it as a contingency plan for feedback.

Tom Gore.4035:

I did read the first post, although it was so long I admit I didn’t read it all in detail. I disagree with you. I think with a paid expansion, as much as possible should be locked behind the paywall to entice as many customers as possible to buy the expansion.

As I mentioned, this opinion applies solely to games without monthly subscriptions. If there was one, I would be very careful of putting things behind a paid expansion, as I would then risk losing customers who are currently paying me.

In GW2’s case, as I stated, I believe the ones unwilling to pay for the expansion are also those unwilling to pay for gems (with real money). Their only value for the game now after their initial purchase is that they boost up the population, which is always good for an MMO. Anet’s goal is to move as much of that population as possible to the paid expansion so that not only they will get lots of revenue, also lots of population on the new maps which are locked behind the paywall.

One of the key things I said late in the post is the community aspect. ArenaNet is rightfully fiercely protective of the community. Splitting it on a core system should be kept to an absolute minimum.

Hence, my suggestion that only the release core masteries be available to all. All expansion masteries and any future masteries get the lock, meaning that as time goes on the enticement to buy only grows, while at the same time not splitting the core gameplay experience for the playerbase.

Also, based on the announced feature list, the mastery system is unique in this problem (or perhaps guild halls, too). I’m not suggesting a chain reaction of “little tastes,” only keeping the experience after level 80 similar for all players at the basic level.

Tom Gore.4035:

Snip

I’m buying the expansion personally, but again I must stress you are attacking a straw man and I doubt you read the post I wrote.

Tom Gore.4035:

Lol. Another thread of complaining about not giving everything in a paid expansion free to players who don’t want to pay for said expansion.

Listen to yourselves for a while and try to find the error in your logic.

I have listened to myself, and if you wish to complain about my perspective, I suggest reading the full, linked post. I’m not asking for “everything free”.

Linken.6345:

what i tried to ask you was what of the things they said will be avaliable in the core world would make people stop playing with eachother expasion or not.

The only mastery they said so far is the legendary precursor mastery that will be available in the core world.

To little information to doom and gloom like you do bud.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I need to see this in practice before I’ll comment. Always subject to change before release and all. . . .

My timing is deliberate. There are three possible scenarios:

1. ArenaNet clarifies that what I’m worried about isn’t really an issue (core game masteries are for everyone, escalating experience rewards exist due to the endgame difficulty spike in the Heart of Maguuma). Just a case of incomplete wording.
2. ArenaNet is doing both, and their decision stands period. Not what I’d prefer, but they’re the developer, not me.
3. ArenaNet was considering both, but things are fluid enough right now that changing it to something else is a simple matter. This third option gets much harder as the expansion nears release. It’s the sort of last-second-fix things that the player base has gone torch-and-pitchfork over in the past six months.

In every case, me bringing this up can only help the overall development process, either by improving communication (first and second scenarios) or by having enough development time to adjust to something they’ve taken under consideration (third scenario).

Waiting until it’s in our hands is the wrong time to give feedback on a core system of the game.

Ralanost.8913:

You are cherry picking. Some parts of the mastery system will work in some parts of the current world. Definitely not the whole system and definitely not everywhere. Probably just in the new adventures, which will be locked into the expansion.

I’m not cherry picking when that’s one of very few mentioned examples thus far. I can only feedback on what I know, not what I don’t.

And you aren’t getting it with the Mordrem. You simply can’t kill them until you get the mastery unlock. It really is no different than finding a key and opening a door, getting a glider to get to a new ledge or learning a language to open a sealed passageway. What is impossible made normal, what is impassable made traversable. Leveling is a gradual increase in your abilities, not flat out unlocking new areas. You gradually get better and can eventually tackle larger problems because you have higher stats.

Vertical progression does not have to be pure numbers, it’s just most classically been applied with pure numbers. In this instance, someone without the “abilities and bonuses” will have severe difficulty (if not being outright impossible) completing the content. That’s by design, and that’s also vertical.

Horizontal progression is optional, and while it may make some things easier, it is not required to accomplish tasks. Vertical outright blocks you, either by raising the difficulty threshold to unreasonable levels, or making it impossible.

The former is not supported by the examples that have been provided, nor by the overall framework of the mastery system. The latter is.

Linken.6345:

ok what have they written other then that you will get masterys in the core world and what other lines have they said other then the precursor ones.

Do you with a straight face say that people being able to craft all the legendarys we have atm will make them not play with the people who cant craft them?

Masteries will be available in the core world, but based on what information we have in that vein (which at present is purely that blog post), accessing the mastery system period requires Heart of Thorns. So yes, I am straight-faced saying that it would be a bad thing.

Ralanost.8913:

Masteries are mostly for expansion content. Why give masteries to people that can’t even use them?

Masteries are exclusive to region, including the core game region. So they are very usable by people who only have the core game.

They let you fight things you couldn’t fight before, so opening up new areas. And giving your lore and new places to explore. I don’t see how in the hell you can equate that to levels. Your stats won’t change. Once you can fight the new monsters, your damage will be the same.

…except where Mordrem armor nerfs your damage output into the ground of irrelevance. That’s an example that’s already been stated by the developers. It doesn’t have to be raw stat numbers to still be vertical progression.

Based on what they have written, that is exactly what is likely to happen, and there hasn’t been a clarification given to allay that fear. I hope I’m proven wrong, or that ArenaNet changes their mind on it, but as it stands, that’s what has been said.

You could always self-impose character-bound by not utilizing skills until you’ve spent enough time without them to feel you’re worthy of using them now, using your first or second time through as a rough metric.

As many others have said, account bound is a godsend for altaholics (8 80’s myself), and is a good representation of the player’s accomplishments, rather than an individual character’s.

Problem 1: It’s Completely Expansion Exclusive
Negative Incentive: Why Not to Make Masteries Expansion Exclusive

TL;DR, The masteries associated with the core game should not be locked behind the expansion, but given to any owner of Guild Wars 2. This functions as both an incentive to get the expansion for the cooler Heart of Thorns part, and a way to keep the community together even when it “splits” over the expansion.

Problem 2: Mastery Track Tiers aren’t Horizontal
Levels by Any Other Name: Mastery Track Tiers

TL;DR, Masteries are vertical progression, just like the existing leveling system is. Calling it “not the typical” is disingenuous and builds hype that is bound to get disappointed. But with a few simple changes, it can shift from raw vertical to almost horizontal, with added benefits.

ArenaNet has actually taken the thought to get rid of some of the primary causers of the skill-mess-jumble-balancepocalypse GW1 became.

For one, specializations will be exclusive within themselves. Traits and skills locked away from the “base” class, and tweakable within that little box.

For two, reducing the sheer fluidity of things. In GW1 you could slot any 8 skills as long as they were in your primary or secondary profession. In GW2, that is limited between the profession-specific mechanic, the locked weapon skills, a handful of utilities, and a very small collection of elites.

The real complexity is in gear and traits, which is where I think ANet needs to direct their attention.

I’ll format it up onto the forums shortly, but here’s a link to the post: Never Settling Down: Solving sPvP Balance by Constantly Changing It

TL;DR,
Regardless of the high-profile World Tournament Series, the updates to matchmaking*, and the balance update that went live 3 days ago, structured PvP is extremely static (the past 3 days excepted, it’s the first balance update in 2 months). And static for PvP creates a feeling of staleness.

*Seriously, thank you Justin O’Dell and your entire team for overhauling it, even if there are kinks in the works still. The levers exist to get them out.

This is downright terrible for several reasons that I’ll get into shortly, the chief one being stale content bores people, and people stop playing boring stuff.

The root cause of this staleness is the meta. More specifically, the static nature of the meta. Except for the immediate aftermath of a balance patch, things settle into the expected meta builds, and a bunch of outlier builds that get trashed 90% of the time by people playing meta.

Players can change the meta, but they are slow to do so. The chief driver of meta changes is balance updates, which is something that Guild Wars 2 has rarely, both compared to other eSports-level games and its own predecessor Guild Wars.

The lack of regular balance updates has bred a culture of mockery around putting “eSports” in the same sentence with “Guild Wars 2.”

A competitive game aspiring to be considered an eSport needs regular, meta-changing balance updates.

This becomes even more true with the upcoming addition of more traits and skills through specializations and the Revenant in Heart of Thorns.

Please see the below PSA.

It’s intentional for the sake of the economy: The Gold Standard

Harper.4173:

And I think a lot of people still play because of the grind and the time gating. I certainly wouldn’t be logging in every day if there wasn’t some time gated content that I had to do on that specific day.
Possibly a lot of the players currently playing are feeling a similar pressure to log in daily and do this or that.

Not trying to pick nits, but I actually praised time gating as a decoupled non-Gold Standard thing present in the game. Sure, I didn’t like it at first, but as the market has settled out it’s a viable alternative for people with more funds and the desire to acquire something quickly.

maddoctor.2738:

Ayrilana.1396:

And what happens when people have everything because the rare skins are all easier to obtain?

Putting all those gem store skins inside the game behind content would very very easily solve this problem. Anet can produce new armor/weapon skins at a very fast pace, they just need to put them in actual drops from content and this “problem” will never happen.

Or keep them in the gemstore for people who want the immediate payoff, and offer either a gold-to-gems route or a content completion route for those who want to feel like they earned it. Personally, my answer will always bias toward “why not both?”

If ArenaNet has been good about one thing, it’s producing new visual content for the game. Sure, most of it is on the gemstore or tied up in Black Lion Key RNG, but skins are not something the game lacks a consistent stream of.

So if the rare skins are easier to acquire, that isn’t a bad thing. ArenaNet is producing new, rare skins on a regular basis anyway, so the whole “people will run out!” argument falls apart unless specifically applied to the Top .001% of the playerbase that turbo-acquire everything.

Black Frog.9274:

This is sort of a pointless argument. TP/auction houses promote gem to gold conversion, which goes straight to the company’s bottom line. If you don’t want to pay subscription fees, the company has to keep a steady income stream through some other means.

With the wealth of purchases available in the gemstore, I don’t think that is necessarily true. There is plenty to spend money on that isn’t just gem to gold conversion. Sure, gems to gold is pretty universal because of the Gold Standard, but that hasn’t stopped the popularity of items that are inherently decoupled from it. Or the plethora of armor skins and outfits that you see people sporting all over the game.

Ashen.2907:

Thank you for reversing your position on that matter . Hopefully a more skill based means of acquisition can be introduced to meet your desire.

I didn’t reverse my position, merely reworded it to be more understandable.