Guild Wars 2

BlackBeard.2873:

You also bring about 50% as much to the table as a true bunker like guardian

Forgive me, I have never really played a Guardian Bunker so perhaps I’m just plain wrong, but from what I can see they don’t really bring a lot more than a Tempest Bunker (with clerics) when played with the same mentality. In fact, I don’t think I’ve had a game yet where a Guardian Bunker has outlasted me (though I admit they’re rare atm) – Guardian Bunkers in the current Meta just don’t seem to be able to survive as well as the Clerics Tempest as a general statement, I don’t know if other people have had the same experience?

There are certain adjustments that I make to the Tempest Build which I believe help it. Stability on Earth swap for yourself and your team (as an example) allows for a lot more secured stomps and rezzes than you’d think, and helpful moves like a co-ordinated Geyser → Earthswap → Wash the Pain secures massive healing for your team on a point, much more than I’ve seen Guardian Bunkers produce.

I also find that Tempest Bunkers (Clerics or Celestial) have more condition removal than a Guardian Bunker for themselves and their team with shouts, healing rain. And Tempests counter ranged classes with their chain magnetic auras or even swirling winds (if you take the focus route) as an example of superior mitigation.

I’m know you say they bring 50% more, but I’m not seeing it?

nearlight.3064:

Well, reapers will be able to just press 1 a bunch of times to convert resistance to chill and proceed to sit on mallyx’s face, so yeah.

Apart from at the start of a match where the Necro gets eaten alive because it still doesn’t start with any deathshroud and everyones running power builds to chomp through their HP bar in seconds.

Shadowflare.2759:

Sigh. how can it possibly be a buff if you have to get more condition cleansing just to make DS function as it currently does?

The additional condi cleansing is coming from the new DS, nothing else… Taking additional like ether renewal will probably be overkill, some will do it, but it won’t be needed…

But anyway you asked the question. You’ve had your response. If you would rather a 90% HP threshold immunity rather than a 75% HP threshold cleanse every second then that’s your preference.

It’s not mine.

The new Diamond Skin will be a lot more helpful to me in group fights.

Thus it’s a buff.

The new Diamond Skin will be a lot more helpful to me vs power builds.

Thus I consider it a buff.

The new Diamond Skin will be less useful to me in 1v1’s against Condition builds.

It is a nerf in this regard.

We now have two instances in which its a buff. And one in which it’s a nerf.

I come across the first two instances (group fights, and power builds) more than I do the last instance (1v1 condi) when fighting in ranked matches. So now extra value is placed on the two buffs.

I have more than enough tools at my disposal to laugh a condi build off 1v1 without diamond skin anyway, thus the nerf is negligible.

So now we have two valued buffs, vs a negligible nerf.

Thus I consider overall the change to be a buff.

You asked my opinion, I’ve given it to you. You do not have to agree.

Edit: Of course this is all negligible anyway, as with the change to the amulets and the meta overall we have no idea how Elly will work, or whether either iteration of Diamond Skin will be useful in the future.

Just a question, don’t shoot me down:

Will Clerics Amulet not be any good for the Tempest Bunker?

I’ve been trying out Clerics in ranked games and I don’t think it’s that bad, it’s not meta, but I would consider it viable, I went up 2 divisions today with it solo queing. You certainly notice the HP loss from Celestial, but the additional toughness with the additional healing power does mitigate that somewhat, and the power can still net a decent meteor shower/Air Overload when your teams dishing out the might stacks.

Everyone seems to be saying the sky is falling with Celestial being removed, but Clerics seems to work? I remember it working for Guardian Bunker back in the day too?

Shadowflare.2759:

“Because you will have all those cleanses that’s always been available, diamond skin is getting buffed”. That’s what you people sound like.

I suppose the answer your looking for is this:

Old Diamond Skin meant immune to condi’s above 90% – You would laugh above 90%, but below 90% you’d be up poop creak. In 1v1’s it was extremely powerful against condi builds and useless against power builds. In group fights it became semi-useless

New Diamond Skin means you’ll rely move heavily on your condi cleanses, yes, but you’ll have more condi cleanses at your disposal, you won’t have to worry as much about the 90% HP bracket, and it’ll be a lot more powerful against power builds and in group fights.

I like to think of it this way: On any other class which would I prefer? 90% HP immunity to conditions, or for my condition cleanse utility to come off cooldown every second and be activated by a bot?

I know which I’d prefer.

I think I accidently deleted my last post when it double posted and I tried to only delete one, but both have gone. I re-wrote my response better than my previous entry, so here it is

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

As an Elementalist/Tempest player I am looking forward to this change.

The first thing to point out is that an Elly or a Tempest is the King/Queen of Condition cleansing. Nobody can cleanse a condition like an Elly. Whether it’s traits such as regen removing condi’s, runes such as soldiers, weapon abilities like healing rain, utilities like cleansing fire, heals like ether renewal, no other class can match an Ellies cleansing ability.

They were like this before HoT – Ellies were often considered immune to Condi’s when Diamond Skin was considered trash. Nobody took Diamond Skin during the D/D Celestial Meta, you were laughed out the Elly forums for even suggesting it, and it didn’t exist back in the D/D Soldier Meta (Do you remember a time before Celestial Amulet existed? I do). Necro’s crying on the Elly forum because they’d just zip away and cast ether renewal, or pop their regen granting cantraps.

So, what on earth makes people think that the change to Diamond Skin is suddenly going to destroy Elementalists vs Condi’s? Elementalists have been able to out cleanse condi classes for the past 4 years – Sure, we won’t be immune to conditions anymore in a 1v1, but they haven’t removed all of our Condi cleansing abilities. In fact they’ve gone an buffed them… Not only do I have my traits, my utilties, my runes, my weapon abilities and my heals to give me more condi cleanse than any other profession out there, but they’re going to give me a 1 second passive cleanse on top to boot. You don’t think that’s incredibly powerful?

If they’d gone and said Revenants are getting a passive condi cleanse on a 1 second cooldown the forums would be ablaze with outrage, it’d be decried as OP beyond belief. But because it’s replacing Diamond Skin in it’s current form people seem to think it’s a nerf?

1v1 vs Condi classes won’t be a problem – I can see things switching again, more Elly’s will go back to ether renewal just to stock up on condi removal, but it won’t be a problem, not with a 1 second passive cleanse on top of all our other abilities. You could call it a Nerf I suppose. But a single Revenant could get you past the 90% bracket anyway. And a Necro could too so long as it wasn’t running Vipers. In group fights Diamond Skin wasn’t all that useful anyway. The 90% bracket was broken all the time and you’d be trapped outside of water attunement with your utilties on cooldown.

I look forward to the change and consider it a buff because I can’t think of the amount of times my HP sat around the 80% mark whilst I battled 3 people, desperately trying to get myself above the 90% bracket whilst I was condi bombed over and over, trying to dodge and await my condi cleanses to come back up… a Passive 1 second cleanse would have helped in those situations immensely.

I would argue the new Diamond Skin to be wholly better, and would have loved this new iteration a month ago. Other classes survive with one or two condi cleanses… Ellies in any typical build have at least 3, 4 if not 5+ when specced right. Another 1 second passive cleanse will keep condi builds off ellies indefinitely.

My biggest fear however is not the Diamond Skin change, but the Amulet change. For the past 4 years Elly has relied on Celestial (and Soldiers before that) – Both are being removed. That’s what’s going to kill us. Not the Diamond Skin change.

We had a guy quit on us after his second death. Kept melting in 2 seconds. We were soon down to a 4 v 5 on Foefire but managed to win 500 v 496 with a Lord Swing when the other team got complacent.

Only won one pip though, we were very disappointed.

Israel.7056:

I also would like to see Anet split PvP off and balance separately but they’ve said that they won’t do it.

What do you mean they’ve said they won’t do that?

Josh Davis.6015:

Sigil of Energy: the functionality of this Sigil is changing slightly. Instead of granting 50 endurance on weapon swap, Sigil of Energy will instead grant 5 seconds of vigor to the player with the usual 9 second ICD. This change only applies to PvP.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Upcoming-Changes-to-PvP-Runes-Sigils-Amulets/first

I main an Elly with Diamond Skin:

If you play an Elly without Diamond Skin you die. You just melt, you really do – completely and utterly. Try it. Take stoneskin instead, boom you’re dead in seconds. Everyone knows Viper Revenants counter Diamond Skin ellies atm because they can break through DS on their own.

If a good Revenant can solo a DS Tempest who has DS, Condi Cleanse on Aura, and staff skills like Healing rain what does that tell you? I even switch out to ether renewal and Revenants can still wear you down…

I honestly believe Diamond Skin is the only thing in this entire game which is preventing a new pure condi bomb meta. Nearly every team has a Tempest in with Diamond Skin, a Tempest who can negate condi’s on themselves for a time, and thus keep cleansing Condi’s on team mates and keep people up. Nobody can cleanse condi’s like a DS Aura Tempest atm, and if they can still die 1v1 to a hybrid condi build then we’re in trouble.

If Diamond Skin were really THAT overpowered you’d see Condi specs die out… But they don’t, they can still wipe a team with a DS elly in it, its just the DS elly gives the team some sustain before they die.

Remove Diamond Skin from the game and Ellies melt, if Ellies melt to Condi’s and can’t cleanse condi’s on their team mates their team mates will melt faster. Condi’s will take over and it’ll just be pure condi teams condi bombing everyone.

Mark my words. Nerf DS by all means. I have no problem with that. But Condi bomb will have to be nerfed too.

You know the stupid thing? Without Diamond skin Tempest dies super fast in the current bunker/condi meta.

Try it, make a Tempest, go Stoneskin, go into PvP. You’ll just melt. I’m honestly starting to believe that Diamond Skin and the Tempest helping cleanse allies condi’s is the only thing stopping this whole Meta shifting to pure condi.

I agree.

I had more success running full beserker staff elly than I did D/D since meteor shower at least did something before I died in 2 seconds. D/D and Celestial Staff are just dead in ranked.

And I’m finding Aura Mancer incredibly boring atm.

I like the new Aura’s – People don’t seem to notice magnetic aura as much until BOOM.

Mwahahaha xD

I like it.

I was in hotjoin having some lol’s on zerker staff. Nobody could see my fireballs, or track them. I was stood on roof throwing 4k auto attacks like nobodies buisness, not a care in the world

A Guardians knock back can be blinded/blocked against as well.

I would completely agree with you if this were a 1v1 game.

But it’s not – It’s a team game, and team based play is important. Ok, so you’re right it completely stops the option of a condi 1v1 for the outer base. But so what? A bunker also stops a 1v1 for outer base. You’ll have to change tactics in both scenario’s, and rely on your team mates in both.

If you can’t communicate with your team, or rely on your team (even in solo que) you’ve lost already. So it makes no difference.

Go to Settings -> Graphics -> Effect LOD (bottom tick options).

Make sure Effect LOD is NOT ticked.

If Effect LOD is ticked then it will limit graphic particle effects, this causes Dragon Hunter traps to be invisible.

It’s funny really, its underwater version (Whirlpool) is lovely.

Axialbloom.8109:

They cannot be played offensive support.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_Celestial_Auramancer

^ This build is a very effective Offensive Support build. You can watch Phantaram’s stream to see how it works.

Yes. Noticed this too.

No thank you.

I am currently playing a Tempest Bunker/Support Build. The Regen on Aura’s is an essential component. Combined with Clerics Amulet I can out sustain in a 2v1 and often a 3v1 (especially on foefire). If you removed the Regen it’d destroy the build.

Conditions are already not a problem for me thanks to Diamond Skin, and I can remove them from allies thanks to Healing Rain (Staff)…

Tempest can currently be played either offensive support or defensive support. With this change you’d remove the defensive support bunker option, and thus limit build variety.

Kousetsu.1627:

Druid doesnt have much going for it when it comes to hard defenses, just signet of stone. itys not like they have double armor with 10 stacks of stab, or mistform, or a blind, or insane mobility with their elite.

Didn’t realise Ellies could spec into Fire, Earth, Arcane AND Water all at once.

Yeah. Works better with earth.

Really good point holder.

But am I the only one that finds it slightly boring?

From my understanding (as witcher attempted to explain above); If you reach rank 10 you will unlock the Deer Finisher. You will also unlock a reward track. Once you complete that reward track the end reward will be a HoT themed Deer Finisher.

StickerHappy.8052:

The problem is,,80% of people I see and pvp do not know how to target and focus.. sad but true..

Absolutely! I was in a heart sinking game with two enemy Neco’s, both with plague form and staff/well bombs… They also have a Beserker Elly (with staff), a burn guard and a thief. Did my team focus the elly? No. Did my team try to get the thief? No. Did they even attempt to burst the Burn Guard? No…

No, they sat on the Neco’s didn’t they. They sat on the Neco’s in plague form whilst they spammed blind and the elly rained fire down upon us. They sat on the Neco’s in Deathshroud as the Guardian burned us all to death…

And when the Necro had finally used all their defensive cooldowns, and there was a shot at getting him, when he was on 50% HP with no shroud left, no heal and no plague form… Well they switched to the other Necro because this one “wasn’t going down anytime soon”.

You try typing in chat, but no. We have to stick on Necro’s because they can’t disengage. My entire team didn’t notice that both enemy Necro’s had wurm teleports.

That Beseker Staff elly didn’t die once. Not once. Even when I got him down myself they wouldn’t support the stomp because they had to target that Necro didn’t they.

Sad Sad game

I enjoy having a good thief on my team.

I don’t know, not playing a thief I don’t really know their state. But I’ll go with the fact they can’t 1v1 are terribad and can’t do anything!… But I don’t really see that as an issue. Good thieves can turn battles and maps around on their own. Point de-capping, and jumping in, spiking and running away again.

The amount of times a thief has come and spiked someone I was 1v1ing and then turned around again whilst I finished capturing the point. Rescued someone in stealth, decapped far to distract the enemy team…

No, I defo like having a good thief on my team.

Oh that’s a shame. I’m EU. Good look!

I might be interested in this, a couple of questions first:

1. Are you NA or EU?
2. Will the Guild be 100% Rep?

I main Elementalist, but am also pretty confident with Necromancer and Mesmer.

I hated Courtyard to begin with, but as time has gone on I’ve noticed it become more tactful in the unranked scene.

When it’s chosen you’ll see people switching characters to get a more suited team set up. People switch to chars like Staff Elly or Boon Support Mesmers. I’ve seen different utilities like Guardians wall of reflect used more and more. People stick to their group, they try to peel, there is a lot more focus on stomping and rezzing.

When it first started people ran all over the place going down left right and centre, but they don’t anymore. There is more focus on group coordination. I think it’s developing it’s own Meta (very slowly) and I’m actually (dare I say it) starting to like it.

I’d support a separate que option.

We’ve already got “LF2 Meta Zerker Elly+Guard Exp 6k+ AP”

I don’t really see a difference.

I’m hoping the death of Zerker Meta will mean more build diversity in groups. LF2 Healers allows a greater diversity than LF Beserker Meta, at least another profession might get a look in.

But they said we’d get build diversity when GW2 came out. I’m not really hopeful.

As frustrating as this map was to play at times, it could also be very fun.

I see no reason not to bring it back, at least to the Hot Join servers if nothing else.

Just crashed twice in Temple.

10/10 Players offline, I was the first back the first time.

I have done this event once. I have 25 Blooms in my bag. I think I got 5 as a reward and then 20 from some chest. I had 5 stacks of the buff.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

(but then from roleplaying standpoint that cinematic makes nearly no sense – the Pact commander is told about stuff he was supposed to participate t and is told that he/she have slained crazy sylvari…. yeah sure great idea :/ )

Actually, I’ve just played through the Living Story again and there is a part where after speaking to Trahearne he says “Let’s go meet the other Pact Commanders” (or something to that effect), you then run to leaders of the Vigil, Whispers and Priory. It stood out to me as I was like “Hey! I thought I was the only Pact Commander? >:(” – Wasn’t quite sure if it was a dialogue mistake that’s been overlooked or what.

When I watched the Scarlet trailer and it kept saying “Pact Commander this” “Pact Commander that” I just put it down to “Other pact commanders”. I know it keeps saying “THE Pact Commander” but it made better sense in my head after that little line in the Personal Story.

I know it’s stretching, but it made me happier :P

Edit: The one problem with it is the description in the Personal Story log, that defo says “I did this” and “I did that”. I ignore this ^^

Same here, extremely annoying!

I use Ice bow, is that really the cause? I might have to remove it from my bars it bothers me that much.

I agree.

I’d even have it on the evade tbh. Why not? You have to use endurance to avoid the attack, no reason the stealthed person shouldn’t have to give up something too, eg. stealth. I mean you’re deliberately counter playing them and it doesn’t hurt their gameplay at all.

I really like my elly in PvP!

Obviously I work harder, and obviously I’m at a disadvantage to other players, but still. Compared to my other professions (Necro and Mesmer being the main two) it’s 10 times more fun to play.

I’ve been an Elly since Beta <3

Muppet.6485:

Stability is first on the list always to be removed by any boon removal skill – highest priority – at least it is in wvw, so I’d assume the same in spvp

Really? Wow… I don’t WvW so had no idea about that.

However in sPvP it’s the complete opposite. Stability is protected against boon removal and is the lowest priority boon to be removed by deliberate design. Lyssa and a single corrupt boon will NEVER remove stability – ever.

As an elementalist I can quite honestly say Diamond Skin is useless.

The only time it is effective is if you 1v1 against a complete idiot. Look at that now “famous” video of the Elly vs Necro. All the Necro did was try and spam his conditions, he tried fear, he tried torment, bleeds. And you just stare at him clicking his buttons thinking “what are you doing ¬.¬”

In counter to that video, if you watch the longer version (you know, not the one that just shows the first duel) you’ll see a thief joins in later, one HS and the elly was below the fresh hold and the Necro started loading him up.

Honestly, make an elly and try Diamond Skin yourself – Random AoE not even targeted at you knocks your health out of the threshold, and forget it if the enemies stick a target on your head.

This is just like the old 100 blades complaints. Once everyone learnt to dodge, 100 blades went out the window. Once Necros start learning not to pop signet of spite at the start of a fight Diamond Skin will be recognized for the rubbish it is.

You know, I’ve found the ranking system to be very much akin to real life.

The lower ranks are like the enthusiastic children! They jump right in and swing swords and spells everywhere with no clue what they’re doing, but they’re brave and enthusiastic just like a child wide eyed with hope looking forward to what Santa will bring!

Then they grow a little and hit rank 20. These are the primary school children just before they head of to secondary school. A little more grown up than the lower ranks, but haven’t quite got the jaded attitude that comes with teenage hormones. Still enthusiastic, but aware of the dangers of crossing the road without a high way code…

Then we hit rank 30, and we’ve got the young grumpy teenagers that think the world is against them. Everything they do is right, because they know best, and they’re so much more experienced than their younger counter parts. Why won’t the world recognize them, they have so many unique ideas, and are going places, they’re going to be somebody one day…

Then the 40’s, the older teenagers that laugh at the younger ones because how can a rank 30 have life experience when they’re not rank 40’s. One day the rank 30’s will grow up and be mature young adults, like they are, and of course they have no problem voicing that opinion either.

And then you have the rank 50’s – adults now, slightly more mature trying to help the younger ones out. Rolling their eyes at the mistakes made, and becoming slightly annoyed, but they hold it to themselves generally unless someone really makes them mad.

And then the rank 60+ – They keep themselves to themselves and let the youth fall out, one day they’ll grow up, one day…

Soyboy.3548:

People in pvp do not play Asura for lore reasons, let’s be serious…

Some of us do! I decided to play an Asura for the Lore and looks before the game was even released. I play an elly in PvP, so only one weapon set and the most obvious animations of any profession ever! o.0

I fully object to removing Asura’s. Why not go the other way and just make everyone an Asura in PvP? A much better solution

Personally I have:

Mouse:
1 – 10 Abilities

Keyboard:
1 – 4 attunement swap
WASD (Q+E) – movement
R – Weapon swap

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Set your abilities 1-10 to the number pad 1-10, and make sure your Raza naga is set to “num” instead of 123 via the switch underneath. That way you can use 1234 on the keyboard for attunement swap, no need for shift+1 or anything like that…

Play the way you want to play is the obvious reply. You don’t need to prove yourself to anyone, and in the end this is about YOU having fun for YOURSELF. Nobody really has the “best” build that they can point you to, it all depends.

Myself for example, I run staff because I like staff. I can play any weapon set, but I just prefer staff. I concentrate on boon support, AoE field support and condition cleansing… Could I run full beserker and AoE everything to death? Of course, but how boring would that be? Plus, what a lot of PuG’s don’t realise is my build complements the builds of my regular guild dungeon runs who like to play glass cannon without condition removal… I’m not going to change my build set up for random PuG’s who’s opinion I care little for anyway. My guildies and I work just fine clearing everything for the FUN of it

HOWEVER!

If you are looking for some of the “meta” dungeon running specs, then this is a good place to start, if that’s what you’re after: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/The-Ele-Meta-Dungeon-Speed-Runs

Gaiyeerishima Cat.1082:

It also pops at 2:30, if the game lasts that long.

Does it?

I know it appears at 8:30 and 5:30, didn’t know about it at 2:30 as well o.0

My names Towren, and I’m “in charge” of A Recipe for Disaster!

Key Information
Server – Desolation [EU]

Dungeons – YES (Dungeon Masters)
PvP – YES
WvW – NO
RP – NO
Guild Missions – YES (Bounty + Trek)
n00b friendly – YES
Idiot friendly – NO

Language – English

Our Guild in one sentence
We look for friends, not “members”.

Interested?
Right, well you made it this far past the bullet points, bravo.

The first thing you must know about our guild is we’re small, really small…12 members small. We are a small intimate community of close knit friends with a good, friendly, and helpful atmosphere. We are the type of guild that have gotten to know each other over time, who know each other on a first name basis, who do dungeon runs using skype.

We have little interest in ruining that by a large recruitment drive, and have no interest at all in becoming one of those large and “organised” guilds.

However, we are aware there are people out there like us, who are maybe searching for a home who would fit in with us extremely well. We’ll take anyone and everyone as long as you fit in. From the most experienced gamers to complete n00bs, who we WILL help… We look for active people who are happy to talk in guild, have a chat on skype, run dungeons with us or sometimes PvP with us… whichever takes your fancy. We really do want members who actually want to play with us, to form friendships with us. It might seem like I stress that a lot, but you really do have to understand that’s what we’re about.

If you’re looking for that type of home feel free to message me in game, we can have a chat and perhaps let you have a trial run with us. If not, that’s fine! Have a beautiful day anyway!

Towren

Champion slayer is meaningless, anyone can get kills in tPvP. Champion (class name) is a little better a judgement since the person has to have WON 150 tpvp games, but it’s still not that great a measure.

One of my key worries is you’re judging people on a 1v1 basis. Some professions far outshine others in a 1v1 scenario. Phantasm Mesmers were the bee’s knee’s at 1v1 once upon a time (no idea of their standing now) and so you’d be great at dueling, but they brought nothing, or at least very little to a team 5v5 in tPvP. It was (is?) an extremely selfish build.

Myself as another example. When I got my Champion Magus title I was running a full Beserkers Fire and Air traited, scholar runed staff build on my Elly. Would be ripped to shreds like toilet paper vs a machine gun in a 1v1. But I’ll tell you what, when it was Khylo week in Tournies and I was stood on clock tower roof the enemy team would drop like flies.

I run a staff build still for PvP, even though it’s not a popular choice… It works in PvP because it’s a capture the base game type. In a 1v1 only idiots would get hit by my AoE’s.

Ahhh, thanks for the clarification

Hi guys!

Just wondering how it’s worked out? Both teams were on 499, and both got the point tick at the same time, but the opposing team won?

Would like to thank everyone in that match though, it was fun!

Anyone with a blast finisher can give AoE Might, Frost Armor, Retaliation, Swiftness, Weakness, Stealth, Healing, Chaos Armor and Blind, combining it with any of the combo fields of a team mate. So that’s not unique to thieves. Your argument currently seems to be going along the lines that a thief has easier access to blast finishers, which I will agree with, in theory it does.

But I don’t think it translates to practice. Combo fields have durations, and durations have to be worked with the cooldowns of blast finishers. You’re absolutely correct in the fact a thief could stand there and cluster bomb a Guardians fire field over and over for might stacking with a cross profession combo. But an elementalist could easily do blast finishers in their own field without the need for a cross profession combo resulting in the same (if not better) effect (depending on weapon set) due to initiative regen options. A thief would absolutely have access to their cluster bomb faster than the elementalist would have access to their own blast finishers again (every 12 seconds ish for an elly is the very minimum they could do with evasive arcana in earth), but a thief has no combo fields to work with after that, because he needs the Guardian…. An elly does not.

A staff elly using lava font and evasive arcane for pure might blast finishers (let alone eruption/utility skills) can easily stack might on a team without the need for cross profession. Comparative a thief needs the cross profession to be effective.

At the same time a thief chooses to blast a different field for different effect (swiftness) an elly could do the same in either their own field, or an allies.

Annnnnd a thief who uses all their initiative on cluster bombing has no initiative for anything else, comparatively an elly is not limited by this fact.

sorrow.2364:

That doesn’t invalidate my point.

Actually it does. If you read the train of conversation you eventually come to the conclusion that you are of the opinion that an Elementalist and a thief working together are stronger than either single profession on their own when it comes to helping a team, the example you give is might stacking vs a Guardian.

The counter opinion to yours (not said by myself) is that a thief is just an extra class which isn’t needed, they can do certain things yes, but other professions can do whatever a thief does, and better.

My point specifically targets your elementalist thief example, and sides with the opinion that is counter to yours. An elementalist certainly does not need a thief to might stack, not at all, and is not made stronger by the addition of a thief cluster bombing in the party. Only the thief needs the elementalist, which again, was a point made by someone else to yourself earlier in this thread.

I go even further to bolster how much an elementalist doesn’t need a thief by including an alternative trait set up which could grant fury as well as might, certainly something a thief couldn’t do, and again, something the elementalist can do all on their own. And I go further to point out that the Elementalist can do this with more than one weapon set, again an advantage over a thief. So I wouldn’t say this is a “fringe” example either, especially if we degrade the amount of might stacks to the example you give (12). An Elementalist has 3 different weapon sets which could give a stack of 12 might, even without gear and trait set ups I described.

It just so happens I took it further to a 25 might stack and told you how we do it, but if you want to keep it at 12 and open up the Elly options I can give several examples of how an Elementalist will out perform a thief in a 1 on 1 contest, and could talk for paragraphs about how an Elementalist doesn’t need a Thief.

As the conversation stands at this point, for your point to be valid you would have to give an example of something a thief brings that is unique, or equally as powerful as another profession combination, otherwise the counter opinion to yourself currently has the example evidence on their side.

sorrow.2364:

An Elementalist alone isn’t capable to stack 12 might on your team.

Actually that’s simply not true. Sorry to jump in here – I was just browsing the thief forums for some giggles – but I play a support Elly in PvE. With 30 points in the Arcane Tree, Runes of Water x 2, Runes of Monk x 2, Runes of Strength x 2 + Boon Duration food an Elementalist can keep a stack of 25 might on a team Solo… With the latest patch if we trait for it we can give the team perminant might and fury. And I can do that with two different weapon set combinations (haven’t tested others)…

Argue all you want about Guardians vs Thieves, but you’re wrong about the elementalist :p