Guild Wars 2

Yup, same for me. Doing the story for the first time….good start to LW season 2 for me….

I do very much like the idea of making a legendary. However, every time I consider it I remember the precursor barrier and this completely nullifies my enthusiasm. Shame.

1) Dynamic Events – adding new more permanent DE’s, adding more DE chains rather than 1 offs.

2) Rewards for all events not just champion events, zero point in doing other DE’s right now.

3) Adding new skills and weapons to the game

Bubi.7942:

What was good about this direction?…

We got two 5 minute instances.

The first one could be solod by anyone with a minimal intelligence with no effort at all. The words ‘Boring’, ‘Easy’ and ‘Tedious’ cannot describe what I feel about it. Overall it was just a rather lackluster and disappointing experience (after MF or the solo instances in F&F).

The second one required a bit of effort, not much, but a bit better.

The thing is, if this stuff was any longer, the people would still whine over not being able to participate in a group event, becouse they dislike groups. So Anet ?had to? design these events that… … … are not fun (had to restrain myself there).

I know it’s been said a bazillion times before but: This game is GUILD wars 2. Get a Guild, get freinds. Play the SOCIAL rpg (MMOrpg I might add) as the way it was meant to be played. With a team/guild/friends. And please don’t let ‘instances’ like these happen in the future.

It’s great that the 2% of whiners got what they wanted but the other 98% of the comminity is disappointed. In my oppinion.
(the precentages are purely made up, but I feel they are close to reailty)

I have not had a chance to try the instances yet. I was commenting on the direction of the structure rather than the quality of the content itself.

There is no set ‘way’ of playing an MMO – as if there were some inscribed laws written into the physics of the universe. Everyone plays differently and presumably in a way they find fun.

I would say that 97.5% like having a mix of solo and group content where 2.5% are whiners that think the game should be tailored completely to their preferences and no ones else’s. (the precentages are purely made up, but I feel they are close to reality)

Thobek.1730:

Turgon.8625:

I created a topic during F&F to discuss the merits/flaws of ending primarily solo content with a 5 man dungeon. It turned out to be a pretty contentious topic.

Whether this new ending structure to Southsun was a response to that or planned all along I think it is a great format.

Single player instance that tops off the story for those who cannot fathom entering a 5 man dungeon and an explorable mode on the side for those who do. Thats perfect imo.

Thanks Anet. Jus’ throwin’ it out there that I love that direction!

well I disagree, I play this MMO to do these things in groups, not solo my way through all the content.

I like to be social. I do not like this direction at all. I don’t want all dungeons from now on to be solo dungeons.

Eh? The point was this content caters to both needs – group and solo.

I created a topic during F&F to discuss the merits/flaws of ending primarily solo content with a 5 man dungeon. It turned out to be a pretty contentious topic.

Whether this new ending structure to Southsun was a response to that or planned all along I think it is a great format.

Single player instance that tops off the story for those who cannot fathom entering a 5 man dungeon and an explorable mode on the side for those who do. Thats perfect imo.

Thanks Anet. Jus’ throwin’ it out there that I love that direction!

The problem is that killing trash is unrewarding and time consuming. I would not want a change to be made that you would have to kill them in it’s current iteration.

That said I agree with the OP that skipping trash and hiding in a corner is crap gameplay. LoSing trash to move them into a good position for killing is strategy but running passed them and hiding in a corner until their AI’s break feels like a cheat.

The change I would see is that the amount of trash be reduced, be made more rewarding and make them unskippable. A bit like the molten facility just released.

Just been doing the Molten dungeon, we got pretty much to the last boss when a player D/Ced.

After waiting a polite amount of time we decided to kick him as it appeared he wasn’t coming back. Big mistake, BOOM everyone was forcefully ejected out of the dungeon and it promptly reset. About as fun as breaking your nose on a wall covered in excrement.

Reminds me of another dungeon I attempted where on completion the party leader left the dungeon before I had even looted the boss or chest, again kicking everyone. No presents for me that day. What game has ever had this kind of technical flaw? GW2 has been praised for respecting your time in a way that other MMOs abuse and throw grinds and barriers. Here it’s failing though, badly.

It’s a shame, Anet had just started to win me over to dungeons with this latest attempt. It really didn’t take long before I was reminded why I wouldn’t touch one of these dungeons with 10ft long stick.

They have potential to be fun but right now they are just to risky. Too much risk that my evenings relaxation is going to end abruptly with my face covered in kitten and blood pouring from my nose.

lordkrall.7241:

It is quite clear that the dungeon will only be here until the 12th, it has been stated several times at several places that it will be time-limited and the actual time when it is gone is posted quite clearly in the patch notes.

Clearly stating that it is only available for this limited time does mitigate that some people will not be able to participate due to R/L constraints.

I should be able to get a few play throughs in but not nearly as much as I would like and I am sure there maybe people in worse positions than I.

It has been the most pleasurable dungeon experience I have had in GW2 so far. The fact that it will be removed does not make it more special to me, it just taints my feelings toward it somewhat.

It may make sense from a story perspective to remove it however is it really that immersion breaking when every dungeon so far has it’s story ‘completed’ but you can then replay it a few moments later?

As a gamer, a MMO player I am used to suspending my disbelief in order to facilitate better gameplay and better content. It’s a worthy trade we have made for years and for good reason.

I would have really enjoyed a a long chain event in the world that has a story to it. Perhaps something similar to the world bosses but with a larger set of ‘pre’ events building up to the main.

The new events added have been a welcome addition but none of them had any extra layers to them, a bit of a missed opportunity but I understand these things are probably hard to develop and implement.

Of course the negatives of the story impact being diminished with the event happening every few hours would be a problem. The dungeon does provide a very tailored and more personal story experience which is harder to achieve in the open world.

A new world event would have been very accessible however.

Is there anyway to know what you have already found? I have collected a few on different characters and I have no idea what I have left to find.

I think I have said all I wanted to say about 5 man dungeons at the end of solo content.

However I would like to say that the dungeon was excellent. I still stand by my earlier points but this was an enjoyable piece of gameplay.

Lorgus.6148:

Where are they getting this info from? It’s not in game for me yet, did they get some sort of special preview? or maybe its open on EU servers already?

Press preview over the weekend. Says in the article.

I think it is down to a matter of accessibility.

Implement a LFG tool, make sure the dungeon is free of frustrating mechanics and it would be a much more appropriate environment to finish off a story. Though I still prefer my stories without other people.

Challenge should still be there for those who want it, with appropriate rewards. An extra path, optional bosses, a hardmode, something like that. It’s where fractals nearly worked so well, many levels of difficulty with a forgiving entry level. If it weren’t for annoying gameplay mechanics then they would have been a slam dunk for me.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Turgon.8625:

For the same reason, this Molten dungeon frustrates me because it is essential to understanding the solo story I have played so far. No matter how ‘like-minded’ a group of people I find to play it with me, I don’t want them there. I wouldn’t want my best R/L friends there. I want to read my book in isolation thankyou.

Living story isn’t a book and it isn’t a solo story. It’s the story of Rox and Braham, as opposed to personal story where your character’s development is central. As far as it’s needed to understand the story, remains to be seen. If the dungeon is required to see key cinematics, that might be annoying for those who refuse to do dungeon content. But as is said before, nothing is stopping you from simply joining a small group and play through the content with other people, or watch a youtube video of the cinematics.

Perhaps not optimal, but as you simply refuse to play a certain type of content because of some sort of social phobia or god knows what, it might be the only solution.

People will have to deal with other people more. It’s part of life. And it’s part of an MMO.

Fair points.

To clarify, refusing to do dungeons is due to disliking gameplay not anti-social reasons.
Not wanting to communicate with other people in the open world is definitely down to anti-social reasons. Not sure I’d call it a phobia – probably not too distant though.

Any idea if the dynamic events in wayfarers and diessa are sticking around afterwards? I would be really really disappointed if they stop – those zones have felt so alive of late.

lordkrall.7241:

So basically remove any need whatsoever to ever talk or interact with any other player in the whole game?

I wouldn’t be against removing the requirement to communicate with anyone unless I wanted to.

However it’s already mostly fine as it is, I don’t have to communicate with anyone in the open world which suites me just fine. That doesn’t mean I am not interacting with them though.

I don’t think it is worth developer time making some super complicated model for dynamic dungeon scaling from 1 to whatever. Thats already happening in the world, and those encounters are far more simple than what are in dungeons. Dungeons are a different experience that should not be homogenised.

Busy over on desolation. High pop server though.

I love the characters and I really like how busy the wayfarers foothills and diessa feel with all the events going on. I have spent so much time in these zones on loads of characters.

Every time I see those fiery portals light up I’m always rushing over.

Pugging has it’s problems but is a generic issue to do with all dungeons.
Story/Cinematics skipping is a problem but is a generic issue to do with all dungeons.
Story experience polluted by other people is a problem but is a generic issue to do with all dungeons.

These problems distract from the actual issue raised here. The issue is the position of the dungeon itself.

I don’t have a problem with AC’s existence even though I dislike the gameplay as I didn’t have to play it to understand my personal story. It is a side story.

Arah story mode grates with me because I do not want to go anywhere near dungeons yet it is the conclusion of my solo story.

For the same reason, this Molten dungeon frustrates me because it is essential to understanding the solo story I have played so far. No matter how ‘like-minded’ a group of people I find to play it with me, I don’t want them there. I wouldn’t want my best R/L friends there. I want to read my book in isolation thankyou.

I am not of the opinion that dungeons should all have 1 player mode. Or that they shouldn’t be added in patches. I just don’t want the end of my solo stories.

I hope I enjoy it, but that is my concern.

I guess we can both speculate at dev cost but neither us know the actual answer.

Can go on the shelf of suggestions for Anet.

Pifil.5193:

lordkrall.7241:

And how would scaling work if the mechanics of the boss fight is based on teamwork? (Much like the new Ghost Eater)

You simplify (“dumb down” if you want to call it that) the boss fights for fewer players. Solo becomes a casual mode, players wanting more of a challenge go in larger groups. Altering encounters like this is done in other MMOs, in wow raids, for example, they have regular and heroic modes, 10 and 25 man instances the mechanics of boss encounters change between them all.

Sounds great, I bet it has a massive development cost attached to it though.

Scaling is not a solution here.

As has already been pointed out – more complex, team based mechanics can be used with more players and specifically, a number of players that the dev team know in advance.

Developing content to scale from 1 to however many players is always going to be a slightly dumbed down experience.

The solution, as I have already suggested, is to keep dungeons away from the finale of a storyline that has mostly consisted of casual content. They can be there, but as a separate story piece that adds to but is not required to complete the story experience.

Ouroboros.5076:

Oh, another “I don’t participate in 50% of the content because I don’t like it so why do you keep expending it” thread !

Very, very interesting guys, really. Sociologically of course, the thread itself is useless.

Expending it? Not sure what you mean.

Sociologically, I’d imagine it’s quite an interesting thread if you were examining human behaviour….

raso.1372:

If you guys dont like playing with other people and you wanna do everything on your own, why are you playing an MMO? MMO’s have always been based around team play,playing with freinds,guilds,etc.. If you like playing singleplayer play a singleplayer RPG not a multiplayer game. Im on the side with the dungeons here, I would love to see more dungeons and better dungeons introduced into GW2.

I play an MMO because going out in the world, seeing large amounts of other players and working with them to complete world content is enjoyable and not encountered in a single player RPG.

I don’t have to have friends/guilds/teams/best buddies to do this. I can log in, not talk to anyone, not group with anyone and have a completely different experience to a single player RPG. For me, my schedule, that’s brilliant → thanks GW2.

I fear this is a slightly different point though.

The main point of this thread was →

Unapproachable 5 man content should not be used to finish off content that has so far been 100% casual/solo.

5 man content is great, some people love it. It should definitely be there for those that do. Not for finishing stories started in solo content though.

lordkrall.7241:

So, lets say that ever single part of the Living Story was group only would we still be having this discussion?

The living story have utilized more or less every single part of the PvE world.
Personal story, meta-events, events and now dungeon. It shouldn’t really be a surprise to anyone at this point. Sure, you will have to do something that you might not like to see the end of the story, but keep in mind that people that want to group up have been more or less completely left out most of the game.
It is after all more or less impossible to find someone that want to join you in your personal story instances, most events don’t scale well for big group of people and so on.

The issue could have been alleviated by having a new dungeon story run in parallel to the living story. Sort of how AC is a side quest to the personal story but not a requirement to understand your own story.

A molten alliance themed dungeon could have been added as a side mission with a solo instance or world content being used to tie up the end of the living story.

This still ticks the boxes of covering all content without having the finale isolated to the more inaccessible form of dungeons.

@Kojast: Thanks for your lengthy reply. Whilst those could be reasons why other people dislike dungeons they are not my reasons. I have enjoyed dungeons in several other MMO’s but have not in GW2.

Here are my reason’s (succinctly)

- I dislike running past trash in order for them to elastic band back when you get far enough.
- Killing trash with a like minded group is unrewarding and time consuming.
- Gimmicky mechanics like one shot bolders in P1 CoF annoy me.
- Jumping puzzles in dungeons annoy me – the ‘wind’ section of the colossus fractal.
- Many encounters, sections involve running around in circles not killing extra mobs trying to survive long enough to kill the one thing that moves the dungeon on. I find these encounters frustrating.

I could go into more detail on these points. The point I’d really like to make though is it’s not grouping up that I am really against, it’s dungeon gameplay itself

World of Warcraft can get away with finishing off a zone’s story with a dungeon because they are so accessible. With their ease of play and dungeon finder they don’t feel too far removed from solo play anyway.

GW2 can’t get away with topping off solo content with a dungeon because their dungeons are not accessible.

However, two dev’s have popped into this thread already to say they are working on accessibility issues with this dungeon so I hope to be proved wrong here!

Hi Matthew, thanks for your response!

I suppose it is fair to wait for the actual content to be released without pre-judging it.

I hope you won’t be too offended if I remain a little skeptical as I have found GW2 dungeons to have accessibility issues to the casual player. I do hope to be pleasantly surprised and possibly converted to GW2 dungeons if this is successful though.

I recognise your goal to create a variety of content to satisfy as many people as possible, which is a good approach in my books. However, do you think that the story completion might be best left to the most accessible of content with a dungeon experience being used as a side story instead?

HiddenNick.7206:

What you really ask for is the removal of all cooperative play from the game and that’s the kind of thing that would be a deal breaker for huge majority of people! There needs to be content that REQUIRES cooperative play or only few people will continue to play it! That’s because people need to have reasons to play together. That’s a huge thing for every MMO.

I am really really not asking for the removal of all cooperative play. That really is quite extreme and twisting my words.

I am all for new dungeons in the game, despite my personal gaming preference to not play them.

I am against 5 man content being used to end a story that so far has been a completely solo activity. Do you think that is a reasonable request? (This is the issue I wish discussed)

Just to reiterate my opinion→ Cooperative, organised play should absolutely be in the game. Please do not misconstrue my goals here.

GuzziHero.2467:

The instance can be solo’d. You get boosted to lvl 80 and its pretty easy. I solo’d it with lvl 80 ranger, thief, warrior and lvl 60 elementalist.

Im sure I could solo it with my lvl 52 engineer.

Please would you re-read my original post more carefully, thankyou.

ForAce.1943:

This is MMO, not Single Player game! Come on ppl!

Im hope in this dungeon, will be parts where party must cooperate, and final fight will looks like fight with frog in SAB, where we need some kind of strategy to win.

Let’s be slightly more accurate.

The content so far has been in the world, where you play with other people, not necessarily solo. It has not required a formalised, organised group.

Just read over at massively that the living story ends with a 5 man instance. What a disappointment for all those out there who won’t go near that sort of content.

This feels exactly like the pain of the personal story.

You could do the entire 1-80 personal story solo except for the final mission where you suddenly had to go into a dungeon. I still don’t know how my story ends….

All the living story content has been doable solo so far, and I have very much enjoyed it – please don’t make this ending a 5 man! I am all for 5 mans being used for content just not for the culmination of a plot line that has been open to everyone so far.

I love GW2 but I would rather just logout then be forced into dungeon play.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence. We can conclude nothing from your data set.

Go and do what you did there 1000+ more times.

Don’t get me wrong, I have definitely been enjoying the added events in Ascalon and the Shiverpeaks. These areas feel buzzing with activity to me. However I am not seeing any story behind any of it yet. The new characters are cool but have done nothing interesting yet.

Lots of story potential so far but the meat of it still feels frustratingly out of grasp.

I was also under the impression the march update was meant to be the big kick off for the living story. Which is disappointing since it definitely still feels like teaser content.

Demented Sheep.1642:

I only had issues with them when I created a new character. Getting hit by one of those things at lvl 3 is not pleasant.
But otherwise they are fine. Usually only takes about 2 dodges to close the gap.

How are you dealing with them once you get close? I found them much harder to dodge at melee range.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Turgon.8625:

Thanks for the advice on dodging and stability, if it weren’t for the posts dripping in sarcasm I would have mistook it for genuine help.

I was trying to be genuinely helpful. It took me a couple beats to think “Oh, right, Stability” myself since I don’t often have to employ it regularly. Last time I had to consciously remember I had it was Swamp Fractal.

My apologies then. I think thats the point though, people are in the open world not necessarily employing survival utility skills, or just too low level to even have them.

I tried taking one on without a ranged weapon and just could not do it without being knocked down at least once. I have not succeeded in taking one down before my endurance bar is used up.

The new guild commendation shield skin looks great. Like a proper tower shield, unlike most of the bucklers in the game so far. Axe wise I have not been impressed with much so far, just sticking with krytan for the mo.

Thanks for the advice on dodging and stability, if it weren’t for the posts dripping in sarcasm I would have mistook it for genuine help.

I wasn’t raising this as a skill issue, there are certainly more difficult challenges in the game. I just wanted to see if anyone else thought they were a frustrating addition or just me. If it’s just me then maybe I do just need to man up and take it.

Pros

New cutscenes
New characters
‘The molten alliance’ is a cool mash-up
The zones look great

Cons

Bad gameplay – I have been fighting the M. alliance jumping out of portals for a month now. At least they spawn randomly in the world with other people around making them slightly more interesting. Going through a static instance with them was just boring, I could barely get myself to finish them.

I fell for that one too. It’s pretty annoying how the later stages of the living story are already marked on the map before you do the earlier ones.

I find it pretty funny in events (harathi is a good example) where you have to wait a few minutes after an event is over for all the enemies to do their ‘death’ animation as the models appear in game so you can loot them.

I didn’t see mention of pve culling being treated separately to WvW culling? Was that a dev reply somewhere?

Reize.2176:

But you should definitely be allowed to solo the most basic activity in the game.

Says you?

Activities can be basic and require more than one person.

Hi everyone, I am just starting to look into the requirements for crafting a legendary and I am trying to decide whether I want to start the slog or not.

My question is:

Is there much time disparity between grinding the 1k+ gold to buy a legendary off the TP and grinding the materials required to craft it manually yourself.

The reason I ask is that crafting legendaries myself would push me into areas of the game that I don’t particularly have much interest in such as WvWvW. Gathering gold on the other hand is a universal currency garnered through pretty much whatever I am doing.

Assuming I am not going to spend all day flipping items on the TP and will just gather gold through conventional means, is there much difference in the amount of time you have to invest between the two activities?

Thanks for your time.

Current class skills don’t look like they were designed for this. Would be an absolute nightmare to balance.

Not going to happen imo.

Vertical progression is about adding power. (e.g. more levels, better gear)

Horizontal progression is about adding options. (e.g more skills, new types of runes)

Grind has nothing to do with the topic as both systems can have large or small amounts of required grinding.

Elvahaduken.3609:

pls stfu and listen. This is an MMO. stat/gear progression is NEEDED to keep people wanting to play and hopefully for anet buy more diamonds There is a reason wow is so successful

If you want ZERO progression then pls go play a console game. kthx

Your position is extreme. People play many games for years that don’t have stat/gear progression.

Wow is indeed successful. Wow clones, on the other hand, struggle.

HawkMeister.4758:

Indeed and sadly their bank accounts say they are doing it right.

It is indeed a very successful system, I very much enjoy it in other games. I think it would be hard for either of us to make a case for GW2 being more or less financially successful than it currently is if they had/will adopt a gear treadmill through level increase system. We simply don’t have the data.

What I’d love to see is rather than expanding the traits out vertically (e.g increasing length of each trait line from 30 to 40) they add traits horizontally – add another trait line for each class. This would put it in line with horizontal progression that the GW is renowned for whilst still allowing them to add new abilities/play styles in an expansion.

As for more things to do at end game. That won’t be solved through adding a higher level cap. That is solved by adding new content at current max level.

New ways to progress your character that feels lacking without vertical progression will have to be solved some other manner, I am not sure what.

HawkMeister.4758:

Wow, are we going into hysterics over this AGAIN?

I could use 20 more points to spend on traits and by now pretty much everybody has maxed out his exotics and has no reason whatsoever to see the inside of that specific dungeon ever again.

In my mind it´s a done deal that we´re getting lvl90 at least on the expansion sometime later this year and ascended armor somewhere in between.

Deal with it.

There are many games out there that use this system already. Can you not concede that many players enjoy this game because the GW2 model is different?