Guild Wars 2

I believe ip 162 is also having similar issues.

Several guildies and people from my server have been reporting severe lag from the server that is hosting Eternal Battlegrounds in the NA Tier 2 WvW match this week as well as the SoS borderlands. The lag is so bad that players are consistently disconnecting from the game whenever they are on those two maps. It is not happening on other maps.

I noticed last week when I was trying to play on a Southsun map I believe ended with ip 161 there was intense lag causing constant disconnects and making my guild fail a guild mission on that map (twice). I’ve also seen issues with certain Tequatl maps.

I’m not a computer person but I believe whatever hardware you have hosting the ip 161, it must be broken right now. Please fix this asap.

You haircut is inexcusable.

But yeah, a fix (or acceptable compromise assuming it’s too difficult to fix) would be nice.

Diamondous Valorim.9432:

DirtyT.5129:

hola

If the following applies to you:

->Launch Guild Wars 2 -> Launcher begins to update – > Then freezes

Try – Start -> Control Panel -> Internet Options -> Connections -> LAN settings -> CHECK Automatically detect settings.

This worked for me.

Done this twice with two computers, one high end with windows eight and one with windows 7, WORKED BOTH TIMES. Try this first.

This doesn’t work for me. It was already unchecked when I looked and I tried checking it, still nothing. So I unchecked it and still nothing.

My launcher downloaded the latest patch, stopped at 96% and now it won’t go past 26MB and 0% with 1 file remaining. Nothing seems to be happening, no download, no progress.

It’s really disheartening to read “a workaround that seems to work for most people was posted by RouterGeeks in our forums” when I am not most people. Makes me feel like this issue isn’t a top priority, especially when the last post was three days ago saying “Thanks for these reports. Please continue to include details of your experience, as the info you provide may aid in solving the issues.”.

My game worked fine for the last couple of days, it was only when I installed the latest patch that I can’t get in.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

I think it’s a bad decision on their part.
It essentially means that all new players/characters are experiencing the past within the present.

The game should be showing them THEIR present – as in the present that is the personal story while they’re doing it. Not to mention it’s going to confuse people and makes next to no sense since you’re doing things in a completely destroyed place.

I don’t think it’s a decision, I think it’s a temporary technical limitation. I suspect they don’t have the easy technology to show Lion’s Arch as it once was and have it change for Open World content, so they have to make the undesirable compromise.

Obviously Personal Story doesn’t make sense in war torn Lion’s Arch but for all we know it’s only going to be like that for a few more weeks (if not faster than that). I suspect Lion’s Arch will begin to rebuild shortly after we retake it.

What I do find interesting about this, is the basic infrastructure of Lion’s Arch is still there. Even if buildings are rebuilt or redesigned, Lion’s Arch is likely to look familair to how it once was. There might be some big changes, but you can’t change too much geography without having to redesign the pathing of some of the Personal Story missions (the OoW one is the first that comes to mind for me).

Unless they find a way to historically recreate Lion’s Arch for Personal Story instances or they redesign the missions inside the city, I suspect LA will have a very similair layout to what it once had when it’s rebuilt.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It also spoils the fact that Magnus loses his left eye in the battle (not just temporary blindness like some have thought). But yeah, the atlas is a pretty big let down.

I think there’s 5 different images used for “Scarlet attacks/ed Lion’s Arch with a big kitten drill!” Seriously… couldn’t have been more imaginative?

I agree the Atlas was underwhelming to say the least, but the eye patch and the mini were available a week ago so we all knew he was going to lose an eye soon anyway.

Also, there is an image of Kasmeer, Marjory, Rox and Braham inside Scarlet’s ship. It says they played an important part in defeating Scarlet (yawn). What is interesting is that it seems to show them after they’ve taken on Scarlet. Kasmeer and Marjory both live. I didn’t think it was likely they would die, but I think the speculators can rest easy now.

I’m trying to finish my weapon locker collection before they remove glory and I’m having trouble tracking down a few recipes.

I’ve heard people say they got the Runic Blade using Phoenix tokens salvaged from T2 cultural armours, does anyone have the specific recipe used to craft the sword? I assume it’s a rare proc. Also, is there way to increase your salvage chance of getting a Phoenix token from cultural armour?

I heard the Lava Axe is also craftable with either free or paid tournament tokens. Can anyone confirm which tokens I need and what the specific recipe is to get it?

It took them over a year to make a working LFG tool which is valuable for the entire game (WvW, dungeons, sPvP, Open World, Living Story, Personal Story). Do you really think a big feature like the one proposed here is a small undertaking?

junglizm.5843:

DB was already faltering. BG and JQ liquidated their guilds. Pay2win!

You should say cannibalised. That’s much more accurate.

Dragonbrand is dropping out of the gold league. Wherever they land is going to be far better than where they would have been had this not happened. Ride out the next week or two of bad matches and you will actually see a much better scenario than you would have if you were still in the top six.

This is what SoS TS sounded like when the event succeed dialogue popped up:

I’d never done a guild mission before because my guild fell apart after their introduction and their practically exclusive access to accessories which we were too small to compete with (what’s left of my guild is a handful of remaining people on my friends list). I was exploring Snowden Drifts today and I noticed the mission was open. I was curious to see content I’d never seen before so I jumped in. I had seen the beginning of Anthony’s Angmar’s Trove video one the GW2 live stream so I knew about the icicles and bows part so I helped out with that. I didn’t watch any further so I was puzzle solving or following what they others were doing for the rest of it.

I noticed no-one was saying anything and everyone was in the same guild so I assumed they were all on TS (there was at least 40-50 people in there). It was a lot like a WvW zerg where lots of people are stacked together and a few stragglers are off fighting things or pushing forward. Finally in the Ice Drake room I had no idea what was going on, everyone was just standing around waiting. I knew whatever was next probably involved the drake to produce fire so I picked up an egg. Things seemed to go smoothly from here to a certain extent, people began to light torches etc but I guess it has to be synchronised or something? I ended up kitten ing off some people because I lit a torch and then I started getting abuse from the guild. It was a pretty awful experience and I completely lost interest in playing the game.

I was kind of having fun poking around and exploring things and trying out parts of the puzzle, but in hindsight I suspect this guild has done the puzzle multiple times now and have it down to a science. They just wanted their commendation and I was in their way so they were abusing me for my attempts to help them (which apparently hindered them). It was easily my worst GW2 community experience this year. To be singled out by a group of 40-50 people and become the focus of their scorn for what was an honest mistake in my attempt to participate, it made me feel awful. I was actually humiliated as a result.

I hate guild missions. I hate what they do to small guilds, I hate that they are forced on you to obtain ascended accessories (yeah, 40 laurels and 50 ecto is a totally reasonable amount of resources compared to 12 Guild Commendations) and now I hate that in an attempt to help, you can hinder people. They are clearly designed for guilds who are communicating with each other and accountable to each other and the reward as a pug for the puzzle is a freaking blue from the chest.

I think they allowed pugs to join guild missions so they can tell themselves that they aren’t excluding people from fun content. You might miss out on rewards (which is the driving incentive in Guild Mission design) but at least every player can participate at some point in time. That’s what the devs told themselves. But they designed missions so that pugs get nothing out of them aside from an experience and they can hinder (even with good intentions) guilds doing them, resulting in a bad experience for everyone.

Even when they are alive they are rarely an interesting mechanic. It’s just a less efficient way to do the same things other classes can do. Living pets don’t really let the ranger do anything special. In PvE it can be nice to have a pet doing things while the ranger focuses on something else (or positions themselves elsewhere) but in PvE it often won’t matter. A lot of the CC is negated by defiant and most of the time the pet’s position is more delicate than the ranger’s, resulting in death. Pets don’t really offer much unique in terms of gameplay.

Brother Grimm.5176:

I think Dante was referring to the pet being a “choice” in GW1. You had to build for pet use to make it a viable option (but you are correct that until later in GW1 life, it really wasn’t).

No doubt the issue here is that the Ranger class is defined by having a pet as a secondary weapon (CAN be speced for a primary one), but that weapon can be removed from play by specific content mechanics. I’ve never seen where ANet even acknowledges this as an issue (tho, I’ve not actively searched for it…Ranger isn’t one of my favorite classes), so I’m not sure whether any kind of “fix” is even being looked at.

I get the OPs frustration, but the sarcasm and extreme exaggeration being presented by the thread’s title is not likely to garner Dev support for this cause.

The pet was only useful for a couple of gimmick builds which used them as meat shields and minion factories (necromancers used their corpses to build up their minion armies, something ArenaNet nerfed for god knows what reason). GW1 was all about AoE damage, pets didn’t have that. On top of this, pets took a lot of resources to build for them, which really hurt the rangers build.

Originally I thought a mandatory pet would force ArenaNet to make it work, I was wrong. Making the pet optional would officially kill any chance of the pet becoming a good mechanic in the game.

Burnfall.9573:

If Arene net were ever to Improve Rangers pets, it would make them OP- it would make our pets “warrior-like”

As always,

Whenver they mention Ranger class+pets, they bring up Warrior class.
(even warrior have “pets” Elite)

Seriously

Sometimes I wonder, that no one at Arena net team knows nothing about how a Ranger pet functions

Well except for Robert H. who was teamleader in Guild wars 1 Ranger class+pets design and function.

Since

Robert H. been M.I.A far too long….

No-Wonder………

(I’ll leave it at that)

Actually he’s on the Living Story team now. I think he had a role to play in the design of the Gauntlet, which is why hoping for him to be a becon of hope to rangers is a mistake. He actually designs content which makes pets useless despite being a ranger that runs in dungeons. The redesign of AC and the changes to the Spider Queen are another example of this. Prior to her redesign, the pet was able to live through the entire fight without too much trouble. After the redesign the boss AoE kills pets almost instantly. If she uses it underneath her, good luck doing anything with a melee pet. If she uses it on a ranged watch, either command it to move (and hope it responds in time, it likely won’t) or watch the ranged pet stand in the AoE and die.

Kiriwar.7382:

TwoBit.5903:

That said, there are always other ways to convey femininity without resorting to giving things boobs and hips,

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This x1000000000

And they can (and do) convey femininity without resorting to giving things boobs and hips. Does that mean that they can’t conveny femininity by giving things boobs and hips? Absolutely not.

There are plenty of ways that femininity is displayed in the game without relying on boobs or hips. It’s totally OK for them to use boobs and hips. There is no taboo on the female form.

People getting up and arms about anything that is sexualised or anything in the game which uses focuses on boobs and hips are being unreasonable. The game does not set a trend for demeaning women, the whole ceremony is about a female queen for crying out loud!

Learn to accept diversity. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean other people won’t. Not everything has to be the way you want it.

There are multiple ways to convey femininity, and they’ve used one here. They didn’t just use one throughout the entire game. If this was the only thing they did, go ahead, preach. It’s not. It’s just one and you don’t like it. There are others out there.

Dante.1763:

i wont even try it as my ranger, the pet just sucks away all my damage when its dead. i mean honestly why the hell isnt the pet like it was in gw1. it worked didnt it?

It wasn’t much different in GW1 (although later in the game’s life they gave it some passive damage reduction). Pets were as unplayable there as they are in GW2. The biggest difference was that Dunkoro could spam Protective Spirit, Shield of Absorption and Word of Healing on the pet to prevent it from being anihilated. Pet res was also much better in GW1. I think it had a 10 second cooldown. Maybe it’s time they make a PvE only change to pet res in GW2 (still wouldn’t solve all the problems).

DravenAU.5789:

I don’t like it. Don’t think I’ll support her anymore.
Unfortunately Caudecus is too much of a…. err… slimebag for me to get behind him.

GW2 heroes and villains in a nutshell for you. That’s basically how Kiel and Evon were portrayed.

Devildoc.6721:

It also screws over people who are sitting at the side of the finish line waiting for their cronie friend to cross and get first place.

Promoting something on the argument that it screws over people who are trying to help each other, it’s hard to see how someone considered you a bad sport.

FateOmega.9601:

Why do people like to overthink such a simple plot line?

Because they want to be engaged. They want a story with depth, with compelling character that reward their time and attention and the Living Story as it’s written so far isn’t giving them that. Most of us are aware something is going on behind the story, but the problem is we haven’t been given enough of that to make anything feel interesting.

I think the primary goal was to engage the players. Normally the Living Story update threads are full of complaints about RNG and grind achievements. This update had vigorous lore discussions about not only the two campaign characters but also the desired fractals. There was even discussions about who was better for LA. It’s not uncommon to have these kind of engaged discussions on the forums, but I feel as though they took place to a greater extent with this update.

Having said all that, I didn’t enjoy this chapter as much as others. I’m already engaged by the plot (even when I don’t like it) so I don’t need a fabricated conflict dividing the player base to create discussion or interest for me. It was also light on story content and real involvement in the world, I don’t feel like I did much this month. In many ways, the election theme took away from my experience in the game this month as I don’t enjoy “lore PvP”. Despite that, they certainly engaged the audience, the question is, is this really how you want people to be engaged?

Sergoros.4398:

Anyway. Anyone noticed kiel story?
“When the water overcame her, Ellen promised the gods that she would be a good girl, forever and ever, if they would only send her parents to get her. Please, she silently pleaded. I’ll be good!”

So…i bet they died. I wonder… mby she gave up on being good that day? Also, magnus promised to get her parents back. So he failed too. I have kinda bad suspicions about her.

Every time Kiel opens her mouth it’s to deliver a Sailor Moon love and justice speech. I don’t think she gave up on being good, I think she gave up on having a personality.

If you look on reddit and GW2Guru the threads about this have almost as many people who are strongly opposed to participating in the Facebook promotion as they have people wanting it to succeed. Social media marketing is a volatile subject with a lot of people.

Zaxares.5419:

It’s standard diplomatic practice for government representatives to be invited to official events. As Kryta and the Charr Legions are actively seeking to seal a peace treaty between themselves, it would be extremely disrespectful for Queen Jennah not to extend an invitation to the Charr, and it would be extremely rude for the Charr not to send a representative to attend.

As someone who has had extensive contact with humans, the Charr High Legions may have picked Rytlock Brimstone to be their representative, but he’s unable (or unwilling) to attend, so he sends Rox in his stead.

I hope it’s more than that. The possibilities of why a low ranking “boots on the ground” type charr would be involved in a largely Krytan event (it actually states they are openly inviting other races but I don’t think Rox is the diplomatic type) are exciting. I don’t think many of us expect the next month to go by without conflict.

Citri.9540:

Queen Jennah is a basic kitten and I am yawning already that she’s going to be featured in the next Living Story

Yeah I’m also not a fan of hers, but hopefully the plot revolves around Krytan politcs without actually involving Jennah, kind of the like how the personal story rarely included her.

I want to know why Rox is attending the Queen’s Jubilee. Is it some kind of separatist plot? I don’t think she is in a diplomatic position for the charr so why specifically her unless she has some kind of mission to accomplish for Rytlock? What mission would the charr have in Kryta?

Eluveitie.1290:

1) Logan is surprised to see Lady Kasmeer in The Dead End bar because she was a high class lady, whom wouldn’t be in such place at all.

2) Marjory would’ve noticed it was a big kitten Charr coming from behind her in her story or recognized the paws when he covered her mouth. Neither happened.

3) Anyone can manipulate the Asura panels, even us.

4) Evon doesn’t have ANY reason to be concerned about the dark foces at play in Divinity’s Reach & world. His personality doesn’t really fit saving the world, but saving himself.

I don’t believe this theory will come true at all.

I don’t think E is Evon either simply because Evon is a major character now. They want E to be a mystery, so the obvious candidates (anyone featured in the Living Story so far or with an obvious invested interest in the Living Story) is unlikely. It’s more than likely someone we haven’t met yet, or someone who was less prominently featured so far.

As far as Evon’s interests goes, as one of the most powerful traders in Tyria, he should have connections and an invested interest in everything in Tyria. He has a reason to be involved with everyone and anyone. I don’t buy " Evon doesn’t have ANY reason to be concerned about the dark foces at play in Divinity’s Reach & world.". Trading in the human capital is a big deal to Evon. If whatever is going on there involves the nobility (Kasmeer), the Ministry and possibly even the Queen, it’s very important to Evon.

If it’s true that the nemesis is female, I suspect it will be Scarlet (so they can have their lame “she was behind it all along” moment). I doubt they’d make it Kiel because that would make her interesting, and they’ve gone out of their way to make Kiel as boring as possible, but also because we have a say over Kiel’s future. I don’t think they’d allow us to determine a significant part of a major character’s future like that. E and Scarlet both appear to be prominent story characters that will become more important after the election. Having an election which leaves their possible futures up in the air is too messy. I suspect both Evon and Kiel will become supporting character in the near future simply because any strict plans relating to them would be too messy to plan ahead without knowing the outcome of the election. Scarlet and E are both tied into the story as it progresses and can’t be characters with uncertain futures (imo).

It’s too neat for the two candidates to be both the hidden hero and the hidden villain (it’s also too neat for the hidden villain to be the most obvious hero and the hidden hero to be the most obvious villain). They want it to be a mystery, the easiest way to do that is to not draw attention to the real character. I doubt we’ve met E or Scarlet yet, or if we have, they did absolutely nothing to draw attention to themselves or their secret identity and we have no reason to suspect who they really are.

Yeah Kasmeer’s father seems to have disappeared (I read this somewhere, can anyone tell me where in the game it was revealed?) and she has been searching for something. We later discover she is working with Marjory who left the Ministry Guard because she didn’t like how they worked, there were also mysterious disappearances in Divinity’s Reach. The Great Collapse has a tent over it and someone from ArenaNet is trying to retcon distance that part of the city from player perceptions (supported by pre-launch statements and some quotes in-game) that it was ever a Canthan district. This suggests that they have non-Canthan plans for the Great Collapse and there is speculation that the 1 year anniversary of Guild Wars 2 (which is next year) will be represented in game by the Queen’s Jubilee (fits with the website initials for the update) and an upgrade to that part of Divinity’s to match that. The website shows Rox in a part of the world that looks like the Fields of Ruin, which is strongly linked to the humans and Krytan politics, so we might begin the month in the Fields of Ruin (maybe with some separatist link to the Aetherblades) leading towards a conclusion in Divinity’s Reach at the end of the month.

Regardless, I suspect the sky comment is either a dragon (we can only hope) or more Aetherblades (Mai was just a rung on the totem pole, it appears there is a higher ranking member called Scarlet). The same interview you linked makes the Wizard’s Tower seem less likely.

GuildMag (Draxynnic): Speaking of the somewhat soft borders, one of the edge cases is Garrenhoff, it’s in a region that is classified as being Kryta and has a human population, but there doesn’t seem to be much sign of it being Krytan…

ArenaNet (Jeff Grubb) : No Seraph there, no…

ArenaNet (Ree Soesbee) : It is technically Krytan, but it’s Krytan in the way that the very distant regions of a lot of countries – they don’t pay a lot of attention to Kryta, they don’t really have people there

ArenaNet (Jeff Grubb) : It’s also got that somewhat semi-independent city-state vibe to it.

ArenaNet (Ree Soesbee) : If you look at a map in Divinity’s Reach, it’d be marked as Kryta. Divinity’s Reach would mark it as Kryta.

ArenaNet (Jeff Grubb) : Yeah, Divinity’s Reach would mark it as part of the area, but I don’t think they’ve seen an official from Kryta there.

ArenaNet (Ree Soesbee) : There isn’t a Minister from Garrenhoff

ArenaNet (Jeff Grubb) : No, it’s very much this secluded territory underneath the shadow of the great floating castle and its warmness, its kind wizard.

Maybe that was sarcasm, regardless I think it would be strange for the Living Story to head to Garenhoff at this point. It seems completely unrelated to recent events.

Thobek.1730:

Of all the things wrong with the living story – gear isn’t one of them. They have released a lot of gear/weapons.

But how do you access them? A subscription MMO would introduce a dungeon (similair to Cof or TA) and would have players actually play the dungeon to earn their equipment. Maybe they would have daily quests specific to the content which would allow them to progress more slowly towards the same dungeon rewards. Instead, GW2 removes the rewards from the game and places them into the store. The dungeon (Aetherblade Retreat as an example) now only offers one unique reward at a very low drop rate. Everything else it rewards is fairly generic RNG crap of which players collect plenty of throughout any area of the game. Maybe a better system would be to implement the same weapons in store and in the game, but give the in store ones slightly better particle effects or something. I don’t think stripping the game’s content down just to make the store more appealing is a very good system for the player.

Players like to have something to play for. The current system of implementing weapons in the store every month is removing a great opportunity to give players something to play for. Instead we have meaningless achievement point grinds.

Who cares about dragons? We have contract disagreements and a couple of murders taking up months of our time. We are too busy to pay attention to primordial forces awakening to devour the entire world, displacing entire regions of the planet and killing/converting anything that gets in their way. There’s also mini-games to play and platforms to jump onto. Living Story: taking the combat out of the MMO.

BobbyStein.2315:

The stories are connected. You’ll find out more later this year.

Here’s my stance on this, how can the stories act as a hook if we don’t see how they are connected until later this year? Now I know there are minor details that are introduced and left hanging (the silver tongued person behind the Molten Alliance, almost everything to do with Kasmeer and her recurring appearances despite not being obviously involved, the disappearances in Divinity’s Reach, the identities of Mister E and Scarlet etc), but is it good story telling if you are implementing a story which has lots of seemingly trivial plot points (introduced over 6+ months) only to reveal later it was more important than it felt like to the player?

It feels like you are burying the lead with all this stuff and the real story is what’s not being told. Wouldn’t it be better if less of the side story was hidden so players could become invested in connections, giving them something to look forwards to and a purpose to their actions until then rather than constantly feeling like we are involved in unrelated events?

knives.6345:

Chief.5928:

kRiza krimos

Yea it gets like that when you’r used to get everything you want.

It has nothing to do with greed. RNG is just a terrible system as it creates an unfair playing field due to being completely based on random chance. If skins could be acquired through skill, say by winning tickets through the playing and winning of Dragon Ball matches or being a top 3 player x many times, it would be far more satisfying as you have stuff to look forward to that is achieveable if you put in a bit of effort and acquire skill.

RNG causes some people to get 3 weapon tickets after having acquired 25 boxes and others to have none after 500+ opened chests.

Because RNG is the only thing that balances out people with tons of time to play and people that get almost no time to play. Thanks to RNG – both have equal chances – take note of the word “chances” – to get the item.

People with more time to farm the coffers still have more chances to get the coffers. This is a stupid argument. The RNG design is intended to get people grinding the game for longer periods of time thus favouring people with more time. If you have very little time to farm the coffers the tickets may as well not exist as far as you are concerned.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Yea it gets like that when you’r used to get everything you want.

You’re conveniently leaving out the word “earning” in your sentence. It should read “when you’re used to*earning* everything you want.”. Now you just gamble and hope you get lucky. Hopefully this doesn’t build up any life long habbits in people, because gambling for things you want with these odds is a very destructive way to live your life compared to earning it.

ArenaNet doesn’t want you to earn things, they want to give them you for logging in every day (dailies), for being in game at the right time (dragon helmets) or for getting lucky (weapon tickets). Earning things is how other MMOs do it, Guild Wars 2 is depserate to push the “players logged in daily” metrics and the devs can’t create enough engaging and substantial content to justify earning rewards so they time gate them and make them event exclusive instead. It’s the cheap cop out game design but it does the job of keeping the players on that hamster wheel.

ArenaNet has become so obsessed with locking their content behind grinds and time gates (or limited time events) that they are putting no effort at all into designing engaging or challenging gameplay.

It’s gotten to the point where you don’t say “I swung a sword, I swung a sword again” and all the new content boils down to “I pressed the F key, I pressed the F key again”. It must be so disappointing being a dev at ArenaNet going into the game with “lofty” goals but you end up producing this kind of content.

FieserMoep.5497:

Hey, terrorists is the way to go.
Do not expect an enemy that has understandable motives, has a good moral and can be liked. It is good versus evil… god help us before we actually get a story worth even talking about.

Molten Alliance… Atherblade… Cookiecrushers… hurray…

I think the next enemy faction are the Puppy Kickers.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

They ran every 2 hours, at “dawn” on the server time (which most likely didn’t match your local time) and lasted for 5-10 min. You knew it was close (<30min) when the sky was pitch black, the rest of the time it was an orange-ish color.

So there was a 5-10 minute window every 2 hours over 2-3 days to stand in a city to get this achievement and if you played all weekend but didn’t sit in Lion’s Arch during that magical 5-10 minute window you miss out? Brilliant game design right there. Totally engaging. I can see how this is so innovative and changing the face of the MMO genre.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Niyo.5920:

They talk about the bonus chest you get if your character has the minimum level for it.

Yes I know. I was simply pointing out the bad drops of the other chest.

ArenaNet has systematically changed everything in the game to follow the design philosophy that if you can get it more than once a day it has to drop vendor trash.

I tried it yesterday and it wasn’t working for me either.

wish.1027:

Voicer.8239:

And for those that scream with proud before: “BG is not T1 material!! BG is imploding!!!!”

I have one thing to ask:

Suuup?

BG was impolding at the time and was on their way to T2. They ate another server and now are no longer imploding, but that does not mean they were doing fine 2 weeks ago. Your comment is kind of stupid.

JQ’s PVE forces would also like to thank Kaineng as they can now all easily get blue vistas and POIs apparently. So I guess the question now is “how long til sea of black kainengs implodes!?!”

Actually the more interesting question is how far will JQ fall now that both EMP and FoO have left? They’ve now lost first place (not just the week, the rank) and all the fair weather players are going to abandon ship (either to PvE or to another server). The easy wins appear to be gone, so the buffer of players they enjoyed from that are a luxury no longer around and the guilds are going to have to work harder to stay in tier one, let alone win it. That’s something a lot of JQ isn’t used to. It’s going to get ugly (you can see the frustration on GW2Guru already) and as hard as the guilds might try to make up for the loss of numbers, people get sick of over time.

Rush to recruit because if the dominoes keep falling like they have been these last few weeks, the next time JQ will be green might be in tier two.

Captain.5028:

If your already counting on JQ moving from the tier let alone the number one rank you are in for a rude awakening, we will just push harder and I am actually one of many excited to be able to have some more pressure put on us. Good battles last night on SoR BL, lots of fights all over between your groups and SF/WARD, had a fun reset night!

The last time SF was under pressure they jumped ship to JQ. Their former server SBI is actually enjoying competitive WvW in a lower tier without them. I think the rude awakening will be for the people on JQ if they ever have to face how fragile such luxurious coverage in first place is. Winning by a comfortable margin makes the fair weather types and egos happy, threaten that and things can go south quickly.

Even if you still win the week (maybe even with a comfortable margin) being outnumbered during NA will be bad for the morale of players at that time (and the map momentum of tower upgrades will impact on other coverage times).

I agree that one guild leaving isn’t a huge loss for a server, but these things don’t happen in a vacuum. It will be interesting to see how many guilds (if any) get poached by the people leaving, it’s the primary reason for what happened to SoS (even without FoE, Agg and MERC the server would have been fine in tier two at the worst, still contenders for tier one). It was when guilds kept getting poached by others leaving that the server had real problems.

The coverage on JQ is still strong enough to take first without EMP (although I suspect the NA will hurt a lot more during the week days without EMP when the weekend warriors aren’t picking up the slack). This alone probably won’t put the server in a threatened position (the server is just that stacked). Hopefully for JQ the bleeding of guilds ends with EMP, once that domino line starts toppling there’s not a lot you can do.

Danielle.3152:

If there is a guild or a smallscale team that wants to run by themselves and politely ask you not to follow them, then by following them you are simply griefing. Sure, it can happen coincidentially that you meet at some supply camp or points but that’s not what I am seeing. It’s not like you can’t do other things in the zone except grief your fellow players.

I don’t care who they are, they don’t own the map and they aren’t entitled to exclusive access to capture objectives. If they want to flip supply camps they have to accept that allies are going to want to do that same thing. If you want sPvP go to the Heart of the Mists. WvW is a co-operative server experience. You have no exclusive access to capture objectives (and in most tiers it’s very easy to find a borderlands empty of allies if that’s what you want). Any sense of entitlement like this in WvW is pathetically misguided.

If sPvP was particularly relevant in WvW Anvil Rock wouldn’t be 14th place.

lollasaurus.1457:

Seems like an irrational decision, DB is in a similiar situation to JQ (rating wise), too strong to be beaten by the servers in their tier and no real hope of moving up or down anytime soon.

One guild doesn’t make or break a server, especially in the case of EMP, assuming a lot of their members enjoy JQ and don’t want to move…

Goodluck to the EMP that choose to stay on JQ, and goodluck to the ones that choose to transfer.. at the very least they’ll be funding the next expansion!

That’s not how it worked out for SoS. Easy wins went away and JQ got all the transfers so a couple small guilds left. When it became clear the server was no longer first place, all it took was for one big guild to decide to leave and the whole thing went crashing down. You don’t sit in first place on such a strong server without developing huge egos and a sense of entitlement towards winning. A lot of people on first place servers are there for the easy wins and privileged coverage. When you stop having that, things go south.

People move with their guilds and guilds move with their allies. That’s why so many SoS guilds went to BG (smart people will note how that turned out before transferring again).

The bandwagon effect (and the related sinking ship effect) are very much real in WvW and it will be interesting to see how JQ and DB fair in all of this. If there is one thing that’s been proven time and time again, it’s that the first place server is incredibly vulnerable to fair weather players. Hopefully the players during EMP’s coverage time aren’t going to suffer too much with less allies and the loss of a large organised guild presence.

The server is still very strong without EMP so it’s a far cry from a death sentence, but it’s certainly not a good sign. All it takes is to get the ball rolling to take down a server (whether it’s a slow process like SBI or a fast one like SoS), this could be the domino that does it. It doesn’t help that one of the most prominent recruiters is the one leaving, makes you wonder what’s going on behind the scenes.

You say all that while be ungrateful to one of the best things that happened to your server. You got stacked to high heavens. JQ was already strong enough to beat SoS, so as much as you claim SoS did what JQ did, the power level was incredibly close when SoS was winning. The transfers altered this dramatically. Had the transfer you hold so much contempt for gone to SoS or even SoR, JQ would more than likely drop from tier one. How long in tier 2 do you think JQ would last before some guilds missed the “glory” of tier one (something JQ is not very familiar with)? When a server falls apart, it’s not because everyone is sick of losing, it’s because a few key players are sick of losing and those left behind are in for a very rough time without the coverage and numbers.

If JQ was faced with the same situation that SBI was faced with, with what SoS is faced with, they would suffer a similair fate. The only difference between your server and anyone else’s is that you have been fortunate and privileged to not be faced with losing key components of your WvW team. The HoD people did what everyone else does, leaving before you drop imo is more despicable than leaving while you are first. You can’t even consider that dropping in the tiers is worth playing? You can’t give the decency to the people who stayed (this applies to SoS people leaving as well) to continue to play and keep WvW alive? People jumped ship early because they have an illusion that tier one is somehow better than other tiers. Ironically they jump ship because they also know that’s not true, no matter how good the HoD players were, no matter how good the SoS players were, without numbers and coverage (the true factor for winning WvW) you can’t be tier one. So why the illusion that tier one is somehow better than tier 2 or 3 or 4?

Consider that HoD was the strongest server in the game. I believe SoS was the strongest server in the game for the longest period of time. Both of these servers were set to drop out of tier 1. The guilds that make up these servers, are they suddenly worse players if they aren’t in tier one? Of course not. Had they never jumped ship, these servers would probably be in tiers two and three (maybe even one, just not first) fighting good fights between each other.

Jade Quarry are the lucky ones, not the loyal ones.

EDIT: SoS guilds are going to BG because they are following MERC. MERC poached some from SoS after they announced they were leaving and the bandwagon is following them. I don’t know why Agg and FoE went to BG over SoR but I believe that’s probably why MERC went to BG. Most of SoS was happy to stay on SoS but once MERC got the ball rolling, the situation of staying became very bleak for those left behind. For people who had enjoyed playing with SoS guilds but were now being abandoned, the most attractive option was to stay together on the new server. I don’t think most cared about creating a server that could beat JQ, but for those that did, BG became the obvious choice. I believe SoR is stronger than BG pre-transfers, but with so many SoS guilds merging into BG, SoR will become the third wheel. That is assuming the new BG is strong enough to take on JQ, otherwise JQ will continue to be the third wheel.

There is no competing for second in WvW. It is true that there is no chance for SoS or SoR to take first in tier one (the coverage and numbers are that imbalanced atm) but that doesn’t mean it’s a fight for second. Even with no chance to take first, it’s still a three server match. If JQ decides to take a day off (or decides to kill centaurs and skritt instead of holding their part of the map) the server that is strongest at that time will get free points. If JQ decides to push SoS on their borderlands while SoR pillages the JQ bl and SoS on EB (while JQ does nothing on EB) SoR will get free points. It’s a three player match, even with two other servers. No server fights in a vacuum.

drwookie.6391:

Guilds on SoS can’t even stand to lose as many weeks as they won.

Say what you will about JQ, but at least the core guilds don’t hop around searching for greener grass. At least not that I recall. JQ didn’t crumble just because we placed second or third several weeks in a row.

Sorry, I’m usually nice and don’t like to stir up trouble, but this server hopping thing is just silly (especially now that an entire guild has to pay for it). Stick to your server and do your best…don’t go jumping around and then be proud of your “victory”.

And before anyone says anything….I am directing this towards the guilds that joined JQ as well. I personally didn’t ask for them (nor did I want them). While I will continue to fight alongside them they will always hold less respect in my eyes, compared to those of us that picked one server and stuck through from the beginning. Nothing will ever change that.

EDIT: Edited on my computer to fix some typos from my tablet, and change a couple words. I’ll also add that I used to really look down at HoD’s alliance in the early days for all jumping ship. However, at least they had the balls to jump ship when they were WINNING instead of when they were losing.

This means very little coming from the most prvilaged server in the game. The fortune JQ has been afforded is greater than any other server. They were never faced with the situation SBI was faced with. SBI didn’t just lose the week, they lost a core part of their coverage. When SBI shattered, it wasn’t because JQ were better winners and SBI were worse losers, it was because SBI knew they were going to plummet through the tiers for as long as they kept bleeding guilds. Losing in tier 1 isn’t the same as dropping through every tier. SBI floated around tier one for weeks with an unrealistic rating and day after day of a match up where one server was mismatched with much stronger servers makes WvW very unfun. It’s what WvW looks like for a lot of the players on SoR and SoS right now, JQ with their current numbers and coverage belong in tier 0, not tier 1. No server comes close, when SoS and SoR defend or take towers, they do it with 15 people, when JQ does it, they do it with 30 people, with 15 hitting the nearby supply camp and 7 skirmishing reinforcements. The numbers are so dramatically in JQs favour atm, it’s killing morale on opposing servers. Talk until your face turns blue, SoS when they won was never that dominant with numbers and the coverage SoS provided was done so by people who played stupid hours a day, not because they had so many people wanting to WvW, even casually they could field a massive presence.

SoS is falling (it’s a done deal) because the WvW guilds that make up the core players in the top tiers care more about being in tier one than they care about competitive PvP. The towers and keeps are the same in tiers two and three – even tier eight, we don’t have a hard mode buff on anything in tier one. People just think they need to be in tier one for the competition to be relevant.

Everyone is moving to BG. JQ got stacked and destroyed any sense of competition. Their competition is literally scrambling to hold a tower and a keep with 25 people on the entire map against giant zergs, hiding mesmers and capping them back when they fall. JQ doesn’t even bother sweeping for mesmers, there is no risk or consequence in WvW for them any more. Every single problem they can throw numbers at and win. I’ve seen it first hand, an opponent that used to be a challenge to fight one on one is now sloppy and lazy with a numbers advantage but still successful because of their numbers and coverage. JQ plays WvW with no risk of losing, and that’s what a lot of guilds and players want, that’s why so many people went there. The good players are still there, but even the known experienced WvW guilds don’t play like they used to. You aren’t sharp when your competition isn’t comparable. When they can carry a 40 man zerg on every map and build nine catapults to siege your opposition’s last tower on the map, you don’t need to try your best or learn to get better. The SoS guilds that care about winning didn’t like coming third or fighting hard to stay in tier one and they didn’t want to be in tier two (for whatever reason), so they left to reinforce a server they think could beat JQ.

It’s miserable watching how toxic the WvW community of SoS has become over this whole thing, guilds are being torn apart, people are abandoning allies, people who are left behind are dealing with a really kittenty fall out situation.

The website you keep referring to and the WvW part of it is partly run by Clementine, one of the leadership of PRX. She has has a segment on their podcast where she spreads gossip and rumours, trying to provoke and antagonise controversy in the WvW community. It’s part of her character and it’s the kind of environment they (the website) are trying to create in WvW, putting on facades of niceness and professionalism, they enjoy stirring up drama and watching other servers suffer (they did it before SoS and they will do it after SoS). They will do what they can to facilitate and enhance it as much as possible, not unlike a trashy current affairs show that blows things out of proportion and sensationalises them to increase ratings. It’s toxic for the WvW community and it creates a lot of stress for the people who have to deal with the fall out. It stops being a game and it becomes a really unpleasant place to be. As one of the above posters shows, some people consider WvW more than just a competition fought in the game, some take it as far as wanting to see this kind of destruction of a server community and if they can push that along in any subtle (or not so subtle) way, they will do it.

The good new for you Le Rooster is that SoS won’t be tier one any more. The curse of tier one will be shouldered by the people who moved to JQ and BG. SoS can rebuild and enjoy a less toxic WvW environment in the lower tiers. The zergs won’t be as big (a fantastic thing) and you won’t have to worry about transfer wars. The things most people enjoy about WvW will still be there, but a lot of the problems caused by giant zergs and poor coverage won’t be. A lot of people see dropping out of tier one as a bad thing, I welcome it. I’ve seen what it does to guilds, to the server, to players, the pressure to always log in, to always play, to lead in the PPT and it’s sickening to me. I’ve also seen the ugly side (the former was the pretty side) where we see individuals and guilds used as scapegoats. If tier seven is where I need to be to avoid having people like Clementine threaten to take their guild and leave the server if we don’t get into WvW and win to protect their reputation, then tier seven is where I want to be.

If ArenaNet was forced to show this side of their game to prospective customers when trying to lure them into WvW, do you honestly think many people would want to go through the horrible experiences servers go through when this happens? I would honestly like to know what the WvW devs think when they see this kind of thing happening, when they see the environment they have created is causing this much stress and anxiety (the devs don’t shoulder all the blame, but the weekly score and coverage/transfer game of WvW is the source of much of it) from a simple game. Players feel pressured to transfer to be competitive in PvE. In WoW you had to gear up, in GW2 you have to transfer to the right server. I’ll take gear grind wins over transfer wars any day. If you can’t beat them, transfer to someone who can.

Haudruff.7804:

work for you. Like “i send my pet on u, and bamm, u r dead. Ha, i have so much skill…”. Get over that. U need to control them. U need to know when to call em back out of a fight -especially in dungeons or wvw.

Simplifying the issues people have with pets by saying people want them to auto kill everything without taking any damage themselves is just insulting to the constructive criticism people have been giving about pets. How long has the black widow spider been bugged so that it has less health than every other spider including the otherwise identical jungle spider?

We are how many months after the launch of FotM and pets STILL don’t have agony resistance. Can there be any louder message from the devs that ranger class balance in dungeons and pet survivability and viability is as low an issue as it can be, if not a non issue for them at all? They aren’t even trying.

Now consider that we’ve had the displeasure to experience the AR issue since the beginning so we can accurately gage how poorly they are handling it. How does that reflect on their attitude to general pet survivability, where most rangers are running ranged pets to avoid long cooldowns from defeated pets (lets be serious, when you press F3, most of the time your pet will actually move 50% slower and does not immediately return to you, it’s our fault that the pet commands are unresponsive apparently). If you can see from AR how little attention they pay attention to pet survivability, what does that say about their attention to pets in every other part of the game?

Not all pets have utility purposes. Some pets are DPS in design. More challenging dungeons don’t support DPS pets due to their terrible AI, poor response times to commands and extreme fragility.

I love the ranger and I have great success with it, but I’m not going to pretend like there aren’t broken (in the “needs to be fixed so it works properly” way, not the “omg so overpowered” way) mechanics, one of them being the pet. It’s useful, and you can get some great use out of it, but the effective pet list is very shallow, the combo potential is very limited (this guy is supposed to be your companion and partner, in sync with you in combat, most pets don’t offer any combo potential at all, aside from maybe a leap skill for a class that has only one combo field outside of a trap build). My guardian has combo fields and finishers on the same weapon, within a rotation. No ranger weapon set has a combo field (aside from the torch) and most weapon/pet combinations won’t have a combo field and finisher. That’s such a disappointing design failure.

When I use virtues, clones, adrenaline, attunement swapping or tool belt skills, they always feel like they work right. When I play classes with those mechanics, I’m trying to figure out how best to use those skills and the options they give me to edge out my performance that little bit more every fight. When I play my ranger, instead of focusing on all the cool things the pet gives me, all the ways to combo, to control, to edge out that bit more DPS on my enemy, I’m focused on keeping my pet alive so I can F4 15 seconds later and get my quickness. The F2 skill, a little bit of passive DPS, maybe a knockdown or slight control (who knows, depends on the pet) and quickness. That’s what pets amount to. I like to bring spiders for their immobilise and devourers for constant poison. Their range helps them stay alive. I used to bring wolves and moas for control and a little bit of support, but anything with melee hate (at least 50% of dungeons) will pummel them into a permanent cowering state, never mind agony which will kill even ranged pets.

Spirits are garbage. They offer weak boons (compare them to the boon builds of most other classes), they have hidden internal cooldowns, they require a full 30 point investment before most people would seriously consider taking them (you are rarely going to spend 60 seconds in an area that would benefit from their effect, most fights your party won’t even be in their area of effect) and they die to almost every AoE or even a stray arrow. A single AoE skill can completely negate 30 point trait investments and three (or four) of my utility skills for up to 60 seconds. That’s hilarious.

The build diversity of the class is below average and the viability and contribution of a support ranger is well below par. Their class mechanic is dependant on a fragile AI companion and the reward it offers for skill and build investment is very little compared to cost it has to the class. Rangers can be effective and many builds can hold their own, but I don’t at all agree that the sentiment in this sub forum is off the mark when it comes to the class flaws.

CharlieWaffles.1509:

Thanks to Anet we could have this matchup for a long time….. Were going to be stuck on T4 together for weeks….

Who cares what tier you are in? If the competition between the servers is equally competitive, enough so that none of them move up or down a tier, you are in the perfect server match up. I seriously doubt the populations of these three servers is equal enough for them to be equally competitive, so I doubt this scenario will play out, I just think it’s bizarre it would matter to someone that three servers were so competitive they would remain in the same tier together despite potentially being better than others.

Hackuuna.4085:

I imagine Oceanic prime time would love to have a chance to fight during a true reset at a more convenient time for them.

Server resets are around 8-11am on a Saturday in many Oceanic time zones. I guess people might not log in during the day, but it’s not exactly “inconvenient” for them to log in at any time on a Saturday.

ElDudemeister.5108:

I don’t know if I want all my servers WvW people to drop out of WvW just because they finished the title. We’d be wrapping up about now.

ArenaNet thought this one through. IMO, the math proves out the soundness of their decision … people who stop playing once they have the titles complete will be coming back to WvW for the next 10 years or so. That’s great news!!!

If you make a goal too difficult, too far away, too unachievable through normal health means, people won’t make it their goal. I don’t think the number of people who WvW to get these titles would even account for 1% of the WvW population. Losing them would in no way hurt WvW. Dungeons don’t offer titles for repetition, people run them all the time. If the titles were a little bit more friendly to people who seriously work towards them (compare them to the sPvP titles which can be achieved much quicker and have more relevance than the WvW ones – WvW titles favour people who can cap things quickly and repeatedly, competitive WvW involves defending things and towers flip far less often, so you could be a better WvW player on a more competitive server but score less points in your titles because people defend and make it much more difficult to progress these tracks).

If you only WvW for the titles you’d be better off packing your bags and leaving the game now. If the experience isn’t enough for you, I truly don’t understand how the title alone justifies your time.

Kimbald.2697:

How can you even remotely present this as ‘how it really is’?

You’re speculating to the extreme, nothing more.

Culling being a reason why people think their server has less capacity? Seriously?

What official message or data are you basing you assumptions on?
I agree many of the speculations about reduced capacity are assumptions without proof too, but you present theories that are just as unlikely and unsupported to be honest…

He quoted the official information. The only changes made to WvW in the patch preceding all the reports of a queue bug mention nothing at all which touches on queues. All the queue behaviour people have been posting in the forums looks like stuff I have been experiencing in WvW for months, everyone heard about swine flu and now they think they have it.

It’s possible that there is some kind of new bug that slipped through, but I personally haven’t read anything that sounds new to me that can’t be explained by queues acting as they always have (people getting in before others who queued longer, having to refresh your queue to get in if you are in it too long, outmanned persisting despite no longer being outmanned, people feeling like they have less numbers than their opponents despite having a queue on the map). I’ve had the game report to me that a map had a queue when trying to get in from an overflow, but once I tried to transfer from a different map in WvW I was easily able to cross over. These are not new problems to WvW.

All of these things were happening in the game before this week. Did you read the threads about loot drops and how everyone was certain the loot tables had been changed and Colin came out and said they investigated it and found that no changes had been made since the November (I think) patch? It’s more likely people are paying attention to the idea of a queue bug, they are experiencing longer queues because of the bandwagon effect (something very real, especially after free transfers) and they “think” something new is happening when in fact, the game is behaving the same way it always has.

Grithan Soulforge.5726:

Transfer off of JQ if you want lower or no queues. SoS was number 1 for over two months and it rarely had queues (certainly not hour long ones) on week nights. You might not be able to win the week (and all the glory and rewards that come with it – lol) but you will actually be able to play during the week.

When a signature states a particular person has been on a server since Beta that usually implies they have roots and no interest in changing. Furthermore these queues were not here two weeks ago.

In conclusion, kitten off.

P.S. Advice from someone on SoS as to riding the bandwagon for victory is so cute.

Don’t complain about queues if you are going to voluntarily stay on one of (if not the most) populated WvW servers in the game. No-one cares what server you started on, you choose to stay there.

I said nothing about riding a bandwagon server or that I was on SoS, you made that stuff up. All your complaining about JQ queue times is going to do is vindicate and perpetuate the idea that JQ is more populated than other servers. Other servers are simply not experiencing the queue times to the extent that JQ is.

Grithan Soulforge.5726:

An hour and counting queue on a Tuesday night? /wrist

Transfer off of JQ if you want lower or no queues. SoS was number 1 for over two months and it rarely had queues (certainly not hour long ones) on week nights. You might not be able to win the week (and all the glory and rewards that come with it – lol) but you will actually be able to play during the week.

Barab.9016:

Ohai.8346:

yes HoD were strong at release, but the game was very young, guilds and players have evolved, and they would have been beaten eventually as the skill cap evened out because all servers had full maps.

HoD was beaten eventually and all servers have the potential to have full maps 24/7 It’s up each individual server player base to enter WvW. All I know is for two months straight SoS were out in force with 40+ man groups on every map I was on steam rolling. Numbers get a little even, push comes to shove, 1vs2 finally happens, and SoS folded.

Fair weather WvW players are the bane of t1 servers.

I think the idea of numbers being even is contested atm. For as long as JQ players are going to claim they are even, SoS players are going to claim they are not (and vice versa). If the sources on the queues are even remotely correct (that JQ, during any time zone, has queues on more than two maps, I’d say the numbers on JQ are much higher than SoS because SoS doesn’t see queues on more than two maps outside of weekends and hasn’t done so for almost two months aside from exceptional days like the final transfer week).

I can understand why both sides want to establish one way or the other. JQ players want to be seen as winning because they are playing better (with even numbers), not because they are playing with more. To win with anything more than even numbers takes away from the achievement. SoS players want to justify part of their loss not because they were outplayed, but because they were out-manned.

At the end of the day this discussion becomes circular and affirmative statements about WvW populations are inflammatory and antagonising of the other server. It’s relevant to the match up, the numbers certainly matter, but each side is trying to frame the story in a different light, one as even numbers, the other as uneven numbers. I’ve seen JQ posters gloat at having superior numbers, I’ve seen most of the regulars claim they are even, most SoS posters either don’t want to partake in the numbers discussion or see them as uneven at the end of the transfer week.

As far as fair weather players go, enjoy them. At the end of transfers, JQ got the bandwagon crew. Every server has them (a lot of them are PvE players who dabble) but the ones who transfer went to JQ.

CharlieWaffles.1509:

Blackgate has shown they Deserve to Be in Tier 1… I hope they are back up soon too bad Kaineng wasn’t going to T2 this next week that would have been a great matchup… SoR T1? We’ll see how that goes for ya Good Luck….

What exactly does this mean? Are you accepting that tier one isn’t going to have a third server that is as strong as the other two? Not once during their time in tier one has BG looked to be a consideration for first place. They fought well and held their own when they were on (and on the weekend they did very well) but their coverage during the week isn’t enough for serious competition.

During the time that SBI, JQ and SoS were in tier one, for a while it was possible for any one of the servers to win. The coverage largely favoured SoS, but the scores were pretty close and there weeks when both SBI and JQ threatened (and JQ even won) to take the match. As hard as BG has fought and as much as they have achieved, I don’t think they have the numbers to contest tier one, and I think for the healthiest tier one competition, you need three servers with comparable coverage.