Guild Wars 2

Obtena.7952:

Scellow.1596:

yes so they are wasting time for single player features, THIS IS A MMO, not a single player game

People forgot this

Actually, I think the real issue isn’t that there is single player features … I mean, in other MMO’s, no one crafts your gear for you, or camps a spawn for that rare drop you want … those are single player features too. MMO’s are full of them. They wouldn’t function if they didn’t.

The real issue is if there was a focus on delivering content that had a poor return on Anet’s investment to develop. Clearly Anet felt Legendaries fell into that category. It was little do to with single player features.

That may have been the reason they did this, but still they had no right to short change customers on advertised content. Look at Volkswagen for instance, they delivered great cars people love them and they still do but they advertised certain emission numbers that were fictitious and even though these cars were otherwise great they still were forced to buy back or make cash offers to every person that bought one of those models that they failed to or couldn’t deliver on advertised features. I cant see how this is any different.

I’m not sure healthy games merge servers especially 6 months after a major expansion. Have anymore devs left?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

So says you.

As was stated in one of the Guild Chat videos, non-ArenaNet Dev players often claim something is easy; the truth may be quite different. /shrug

Then they shouldn’t have taken money for content they were incapable of creating.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You know, some posters always know better than the Devs themselves. That’s why they own and run multi-m/billion dollar game companies. I’m sure they just want to share their expertise in development and running such companies.

Just because you own something doesn’t make you an expert at with it. and really multi billion now that’s funny as kitten.

I wish I could of indefinitely postponed my payment for HoT.

Vayne.8563:

cosmicegg.8502:

As long as you don’t mind broken promises and major grinds then you’ll love HoT

What you mean 3 broken “promises” (people really need to learn what that word actually means) vs the hundreds of kept promises.

The grind that been significantly adjusted in the last patch.

Okay then.

now that’s funny

As long as you don’t mind broken promises and major grinds then you’ll love HoT

Eddie Mo.7169:

I never knew why my computer fans always blasted while playing GW2… Now I know why. Whenever I play any other games, my CPU does not really go that high, but whenever I play GW2, it uses almost 100% of my CPU prowess.

I thought I f-ed something up when I built my computer…. NOW I FEEL BETTER…

Yeah the game uses an outdated engine from gw1 with strong demands on your processor.

penelopehannibal.8947:

ArenaNet will be taking my money anyway, no matter what, when the next expansion comes out.

Let’s face it, they’ll be taking most of yours too, even if you deny it now.

LOL you really think so huh?

Serophous.9085:

STIHL.2489:

I dunno about anyone else, but I am more concerned about what “lesson” was learned, I mean there are all kinds of things players hated and loved about HoT, but as far as I could tell, there nothing really universal (beyond say the Character Slot) where if you looked at community reactions, you could point a finger at and say “That was our mistake”.

Everything was met with some group loving or hating it, it all depended on who you asked.

I think the lessons learned were from the april patch. It did fix a good chunk of the problems from HoT. So now they need to take what they did right in that patch and apply it to further expansions and updates

They need to deliver all the content they took payment for.

Anecdotally speaking I never have more then 3 people from my friends list playing anymore. I used to have about 15 or 20 on at a time. Even the guilds I’m in don’t have many people still playing. So seems to me the populations way down.

deliver what they sold

Obtena.7952:

cosmicegg.8502:

Obtena.7952:

You shouldn’t be so quick to judge … no where did I say that Anet makes the best decisions or that they haven’t reversed things in the past. frankly, I don’t see them doing that here, not without a major simplification of how Legendaries are developed, which in itself is just another cost to them on top of the other reasons they have to stop development of Legendaries in the first place.

Yet another problem with people that complain … very narrow focus on only the things they think matter. Most of you have little consideration for the business side of this decision when in fact, it’s almost the only thing that matters.

If your happy with getting half of what you paid for, and if you have the expansion, then fine. But I cant comprehend for the life of me why its your job to say me not being happy is any less valid then what you feel. I was cheated plain and simple and there isn’t any remedy offered that doesn’t do further damage. Aside from that I couldn’t care less how you feel about focus.

That would be a GREAT rant if I actually did what you are accusing me of. I mean, I get you feel cheated. It’s too bad you can’t get past that. You’re right damage is done, but you don’t seem to want to let it go, you just want to make it worse. it’s sad really. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen a dev will change gears, whether you paid for access to specific content or not. The reasons they did it appear beyond most of you.

You think your angry because you didn’t get something but really, you’re angry because you don’t get why they made this decision. I don’t blame you. A more objective stance would help you out with that.

I really don’t care what goes on at anet, its none of my business or my concern. All I’m concerned with is getting all the marketed content I was sold. It makes no difference to me why they haven’t made good on their end of the contract. And don’t tell me why you think I’m angry. I already know why I’m not happy. And I wont let it go because I was cheated. Anet is wrong and counting on people like me to let it go. I wont. And please, I don’t need your condescension or your analysis especially your defense of the indefensible.

Obtena.7952:

You shouldn’t be so quick to judge … no where did I say that Anet makes the best decisions or that they haven’t reversed things in the past. frankly, I don’t see them doing that here, not without a major simplification of how Legendaries are developed, which in itself is just another cost to them on top of the other reasons they have to stop development of Legendaries in the first place.

Yet another problem with people that complain … very narrow focus on only the things they think matter. Most of you have little consideration for the business side of this decision when in fact, it’s almost the only thing that matters.

If your happy with getting half of what you paid for, and if you have the expansion, then fine. But I cant comprehend for the life of me why its your job to say me not being happy is any less valid then what you feel. I was cheated plain and simple and there isn’t any remedy offered that doesn’t do further damage. Aside from that I couldn’t care less how you feel about focus.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Dinks.2478:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Dinks.2478:

Hey guys, is our attention span so bad that we forgot about this already? We need to continue to demand a proper response that isn’t just Mike O’Brien insulting people on the forums.

They have given the response. just because you don’t like the answer dose not mean it’s not a proper response. Time to get over it and face it, ANet are not going to back peddle. Now if this had got some traction with media outlets, maybe we would have got somewhere. But we are not in that place. Let it go. They are not going to respond now, they have not responded on this in weeks.

Um.. They didn’t give a response. Mike O’Brien replied once and insulted a bunch of people and then retreated to his hole. And why would I let it go? I paid money for something, and the company I paid isn’t providing it. This world is getting more and more complacent with getting ripped off, its getting ridiculous.

They did in the recent reddit AMA. About 2 weeks ago I think. They said something along the lines of, they might look at it again after the next xpac at the earliest. Don’t take that as fact, I’m just going of what I remember reading in the small hours, so I could be remembering things completely wrong.

With so many people feeling absolutely cheated I don’t see how any future xpac is going to get past all the flames that are going to occur.

Mike O Brien.4613:

Obviously I go into this knowing that some players will be very upset. That’s why it’s such a tough decision.

Ankdarkwolf, Darkmikau, Ballads, Spira, Caerbannog, Cysgod, you each posted a variant of an accusation I’ve seen many times over the past few months on the forums, something along the lines of, “AN shipped half an expansion with HoT.” I take issue with that. We shipped a new region full of content, a new mastery system, gliding, guild halls, a new profession, nine new elite specializations for existing professions, and more. Then we shipped precursor journeys for existing legendaries, and said, “We’ve been working hard on new legendary weapons, the first handful of which will be introduced in Heart of Thorns, with more to come in subsequent updates.” While I fully get that you’re disappointed today, this is not about us shipping half an expansion pack.

Mo

Mo if you advertise content and don’t deliver then you haven’t shipped a complete expansion even by your own description in advertising . Suspending indefinitely is not acceptable. We purchased what was advertised and that’s what we should get. You owe us all least some time frame and no further expansions should be marketed till you fulfill this obligation.

Congratulations anet it was a decent patch on an expansion that needed a lot of work but you still took our money for Content that you are no longer providing the weapons are a lot more then just the weapon skins at the end it was the whole quest for each individual weapon that won’t be part of the game that’s a lot of content that was sold and won’t be delivered. What you did it is just a start a good start in the size and scope of it just shows how much needed to be done there’s still a lot more that needs to be done though

Ardid.7203:

Ashen.2907:

Ardid.7203:

It is relevant because right now the poll assume there are no circumstances at all.

How could I know if I’m going to pay for something I don’t have a clue about?
Please note that having info about something doesn’t require to have it released and tested.

Right now the only rational response to that poll is NO. Because waiting for the expansion to release is the same as not preordering, and choosing “yes” implies you are buying a black box. That doesn’t represent reality at all, making the poll useless.

The rational, and accurate, response if none of the options describes your circumstances would be to not take the poll, and to, perhaps, create one of your own.

You might, for example, phrase yours as:

“Which of the following phrases best describes your likelihood of preordering the next expansion:

A: Definitely.
B: Absolutely not.
C: Depends on announced features.

Yes, you are right.
I suppose I just didn’t want to recognize OP poll was so badly designed.

I’m not interested in whats promised or advertised by them we know how they are with that stuff. Now it’s all about content already there at release so no I won’t be preordering.

Obtena.7952:

Sorry I don’t buy it. If someone says it MIGHT be conceived as something and they were against it in the first place, they are thinking it as well. There is an agenda there; they want something.

Yes your right I want my money back for hot without losing the core game.

Fumigene.5076:

I’m curious as to why it’s so complicated to make a new collection for a precursor. It seems to only require basic functionalities that should be available in a content editor.

- Create a new item.
- Modify an item.
- Add an item to a merchant.
- Add a conditionally available item to a merchant.
- Create a new recipe.
- Create a new recipe item.
- Create a container item.
- Add an item to a container.
- Add an ‘OnUse’ function on an item to activate a collection.
- Add a conditional item reward for a successful event (collection activated and concerned achievement still not completed).
- Add a conditional item drop from a monster.
- Add a conditional item drop from a chest.
- Add a conditional item drop from a gathering node.
- Add a conditional dialogue to an NPC.
- Add a conditional interactive item/space to a zone.
- Create a new achievement linked to an object.
- Create a new collection object.

Considering the collections were introduced with the “September 2014 Feature Pack”, that they did some rework for Hot and that they knew they would make quite a few collections, one could have expected them to develop the tools to do it efficiently. They had what, 2 years to do it?

Must be a lack of personnel If they had to take the 6 devs off content that was sold but not delivered to work in other segments of the game.

At this point it’s about trust, do the customers trust. Trust has to be earned and leads to loyalty. I’m not feeling particularly trusting nor loyal to anet at this time so unless something radically changes I will be keeping my money.

Labjax.2465:

I don’t have any vested interest in this game at the moment, but I do try to be helpful when I should be doing other things and am avoiding them:

I skimmed the red posts in this thread, using the arrows, and I have to say, the first post was solid communication. After that, I feel you’re being too confrontational with people. Focusing on the negative and calling attention to it makes you look bad in my eyes.

It’s not that I think you’re bad at what you do or something. It’s that on a fundamental psychological level, seeing most of the red posts focused on refuting player concerns adds up to something negative.

You made a tough decision – cool. You explained why – even cooler. You don’t need to justify it after that point. You can extrapolate if you feel you didn’t explain things well enough. You can commiserate. You can do as you did and focus on refuting those who are upset and are making arguments that are detrimental to the product you worked so hard on. But it won’t make you look good, of that I’m sure.

This is something I’ve seen more than once from different Anet staff members. I know it’s not what the thread is about – delete what I’ve said if that bothers you. I’m only saying it right now out of a genuine urge to be helpful. Maybe you don’t realize what it looks like.

Talking about something you love to people who are upset is a very difficult thing to do. What you gotta remember is… the people who are going to be upset are going to be upset, no matter what you say. How you handle their reactions says far more than the tough decision itself. Some people just aren’t going to be on your side, but this isn’t a comedian against a heckler in a podunk comedy club… here, you look stronger by letting those people spin their wheels and focusing on your message.

Every red post that gives negativity airtime over positivity is just giving a voice to the negativity. And by negativity, I don’t mean constructive, well-thought-out feedback. I mean, hateful, mean-spirited (and often exaggerated) comments.

It’s one of the first things I learned about the internet over the years from hanging out on internet forums. The best way to get a topic of conversation to die is to ignore it. The best way to ensure that more people see it is to fight about it.

No amount of condescension or regret or anything else that is said to us it’s going to stop the customer from feeling cheated if advertised content that was paid for is not delivered so it’s a no-win for him to say anything until he produces the content he was contractually obligated to produce

Paulytnz.7619:

Anyandrell.6238:

My mesmer for the first time in HoT map trying to get HP to get her elite:

“I AM MIGHTY!!!”

2 seconds later….

Either way if you are meaning the cancellation of leg weapons or something similar my reply would be:

I would not class that as a lie. More like a plan that was changed. I could give another simple example. Say I say to someone one day “I plan to take my white car to work tomorrow”. Right so that is my plan and I do intend to go through with it. Now let’s say I turn up to work and my friend sees me drive in in my black car. Now he may think to himself “wow what a liar”. Yet, was it really a lie? It could be my white car broke down, was stolen or maybe I had to take the kids to school on the way to work and the white car is simply not big enough. Newsflash, the plan changed for whatever reason.

Plans change, things happen – Plans that were INTENDED to go through but that are cancelled for whatever reason can then simply not be called a lie. Well that’s my logic anyway. :P

Say you sold your white sports car to your friend but showed up to give him your black economy car after he paid for it , That’s more like it but I digress.

in the game itself or is the marketing department included?

Obtena.7952:

cosmicegg.8502:

56 pages on this thread and no response, everyone must be busy writing advertisements for expansion number 2.

You got a response in the very first post from THE head guy. Maybe you missed it.

actually that wasn’t a response that was an announcement, they have yet to respond to our reactions to that announcement but I can understand your confusion over complex concepts such as this one.

Ashen.2907:

Ultimately the distinction between service and product is not as clear cut as is often portrayed. A service that is advertised as containing certain elements, when said elements are not provided, is no less derelict in their responsibilities than would be the case were it a physical object being sold missing advertised components.

As far as false advertisement is concerned, intent to mislead the consumer is important. I dont think that such intent existed at the time the feature was announced. Even so, lack of intent is not sufficient to completely negate action against a company inaccurately advertising a product. Depending on local laws there can be significant fines associated with inaccurate advertising even if there is no intent to deceive. The goal of these laws is to ensure that that the consumer doesnt get left holding the bag when a business makes a mistake, to ensure that businesses are diligent in ensuring that ther statements about their products are accurate, and that companies cannot hide behind an inability of the state to prove intent to deceive. Of course, if intent can be proven, penalties can truly skyrocket.

Now, if the advertisement were still on display after a decision was made by the company to not completely fulfill its terms, things get very tricky, very quickly. Choosing to attempt to continue to draw in custom with an advertisement that you know is inaccurate might very well cross the line into true, intent to deceive, false advertisement.

Civil RICO could even apply.

Compared to guildwars expansions this wasn’t that big and it certainly isn’t as finished.

56 pages on this thread and no response, everyone must be busy writing advertisements for expansion number 2.

I don’t know where to start there’s so many

I’m pretty well done with any deals with anet at this point.

This thread has nothing to do with a drought it has to do with a contract between 2 parties and one not honoring their end. If you want to complain about a lack of content start another thread and whine there all you want. This is about false advertising which in fact is continuing on the website.

New content over already promised and paid for content is the issue. They aren’t obligated to create new, they are however obligated to fofill they’re current obligations and diverting developers to create another expansion before completing the previous expansion is wrong. If MO is concerned about a lack of content in the core game then he needs to stop development of the next xpac and allocate those resources to his pet projects.

cesmode.4257:

cosmicegg.8502:

Legitimate company’s that do business over the net have to be really carful about fraud. RICO could bite them in the kitten LLC or not.

RICO? LOL…someone has been watching too much sons of anarchy.

Actually nope read RICO.

https://jenner.com/system/assets/publications/12740/original/Civil_RICO_2014.pdf?1393971640

Legitimate company’s that do business over the net have to be really carful about fraud. RICO could bite them in the kitten LLC or not.

Is all press good press?

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/10723/Legendary-Fury.html

http://techraptor.net/content/guild-wars-2-legendary-weapons-suspended-indefinitely

Ive already read negative feedback about HoT at amazon highliting this as a reason. Colin Has to be grinning.

bananaman.1685:

Ashen.2907:

Anet has made no offer to make up for it. They have not even apologized. If you seek to get your money back for this product they take away anything youve ever bought from them without compensation. They take punitive action against players seeking a refund to discourage them from doing so.

When you signed up for the game you agreed that anet can do anything they like.

I didn’t sign up for anything I purchased a subscription free product with advertised claims that have been reneged.

I would rather they gave me what was advertised and paid for then then allow them to get away with cheating on a deal. I would accept a refund if it included all my gem purchases and then gladly say adios and consider time played as time wasted.

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

Again, you seem to be limiting what you consider endgame content to make your argument that very specific endgame content is necessary or that it’s bad to stop development of very specific endgame content. Legendary crafting and non-repetitive story-driven content are not the only things you can do at end game. If a person CHOOSES to limit themselves to very specific things, they have very little reasonable ground to argue that other bits of content aren’t being made or given the level of attention they desire.

Anet thought they could make Legendary content and they couldn’t; it’s not that they cancelled it, it’s that it took so long to produce anything with it that they couldn’t deliver the Legendary weapon content anyways.

I’m not limiting what I consider to be endgame content to anything so specific.

If that’s the case, then why do we keep seeing arguments for continued development of Legendaries based on keeping players occupied at the endgame?

As a matter of fact … if we are so concerned for content to keep people occupied endgame, then that’s an argument FOR stopping Legendary development because those devs could be placed on more pertinent and sustainable content development.

Because legendary weapons are a key part of the game’s endgame content. Their importance isn’t a concept constructed by myself or other players to support their continued development. It’s an idea established and continually reinforced by Anet since well before GW2 launched. An idea that they kept pushing until development was unceremoniously dropped a week ago.

That’s debateable. What exactly makes them a key part of the endgame content? They don’t unlock anything. They aren’t a step up in performance over Ascended weapons. The stat swapping function isn’t useful. They aren’t tied to a story or an event in the game. There isn’t even too much achievement associated with them.

On the other hand, there are several indicators to suggest they AREN’T key to the game; Anet has only been able to release 4 of them in those 6 months, If legendaries didn’t exist at all, very little would be different in this game. They are a distraction for the dev team with big cost and small returns and a very limited audience. Even now that they are associated with a series of activities, those activities are just random events. This is hardly key content.

Nothing personal dude but what the kitten makes you think you can determine what content I should receive after I paid for it. I’m glad your happy, go play and stop telling me what I should want for my money.

I couldn’t care less about SAB if I want to play an outdated looking graphics game ide play an old console I didn’t buy HoT because of the possibility of secret adventure box which is just a gimmicky mini game, I bought HoT because of advertised features that are now not being delivered.

Andulias.9516:

I am sorry in advance, this is going to be a bit of a rant.

In the last several months I have been defending Heart of Thorns on these forums from what I perceived (and still do) to be to a large extent unwarranted hate. It was from the off-set clear that HoT would be a feature rich expansion that’s relatively light on content and for that reason I was more interested in the quality of what’s in the expansion, hoping that after building the base for it the quantity would follow. And to a large extent I feel HoT succeeded – masteries might not have been implemented perfectly but they have a lot of potential, elite specs are cool, raids are pretty good and the map metas, while all on timers, are fun. So I waited.

Six months later, the only new stuff we got are two raid wings. People started hating on raids because we got nothing else in the meantime (completely understandable), but I’d rather wait longer and get really good content than wait less and get another Mordrem invasion piece of kitty. I decided to pass judgement when we have something to pass judgement on. So I waited.

Then you cancelled legendaries.

Now, I don’t care THAT much about them, although I love the idea of having such a long-term goal. I can also even somewhat justify the decision – I don’t think it’s about the six people being desperately needed in LS (I sincerely doubt they would actually be working on the chapters at this stage), as much as it is about all the resources necessary in addition to those six people (documentation, meetings, QA etc). I sort of get it.

But this isn’t about that, it’s about consumer trust. This isn’t the first time Anet promised something and they didn’t deliver. That’s also fine – priorities change, something that sounds good on paper might not actually work in practice and game development is very fluid. However, Legendaries are a marketed feature of HoT. People bought it on the educated presumption that more Legendaries would come. This isn’t about shifting plans anymore, it’s bordering on false advertising and I would love to hear from someone who’s well versed in legalese if it truly constitutes that. I gave Anet money for something I am not going to receive. It doesn’t matter what part of the community was interested in this, and not even Anet can actually come up with such a metric anyways. If this was marketed as part of the package, it should be in it, regardless! That is unacceptable.

All of this of course has been said probably hundreds of times by hundreds of different people, I know, I just had to vent a little, so here’s the thing:

MO, you feel you need to put the Legendaries on ice? OK, I have little insight into Anet’s inner workings, maybe you are right. For all we know this might be the right decision, kitten do we know about MMO development anyways. What I DO know is business language. I do know what indefinitely means. It means “probably never, but we don’t want to say it”.

I am not saying give us an ETA, that would be ridiculous. But give us something, however vague. MO, what does “indefinitely” mean? Is it going to be until you wrap up a part of LS3? Or after? Before you release the next expansion? After? Keep in mind, those are not specific dates by any stretch! Just confirm if we are going to get this HoT feature before you ship your next expansion! Confirm we are getting it at all!

And why would anything told to us now be any different. Fool me once fool me twice.

https://www.primagames.com/games/paragon/feature/how-paragon-compares-hots-and-smite

Smite is a fun pvp game.

Miku.6297:

The forums is a very very small sample of the community and player base. Also as I’ve said in other posts, people who are content or satisfied/enjoying the game tend to be playing vs posting complains. So the nature of the forums tends to look worse then the actual over all feel of the community. Unhappy people tend to be more vocal about what they don’t like.

As far as gem store items go, they do have to make money some how, fixing stuff also takes an income source to keep fixing paid for.

As far as the WoW thing, I duno because I didn’t every really get into it so I’m not sure what WoD etc was, but competition and other releases might also be a cause. Recent releases may draw people away.

Well I know its anecdotal information but over 40 people on my friends list and 2 are on and over 150 in my guild 6 are on …. just saying.

Ven Zehn.6573:

That’s the nice thing about GW1 and GW2 though, you can take breaks, without fear of missing out on everything or being left in the dust when you come back, maybe a few hours to figure out what, if anything, has changed since you’ve been gone:)

Though you might want to at least log in to unlock living stories for future play.

Guild wars 1 is ghost town. Eventually people just stop caring and never look back.
I’ve never seen an MMO lose its community as fast as this one is.

WP nailed it with that video. I’ve have felt this way since HoT was about 2 weeks old. I would say to myself, that’s all of it?? And yet it keeps getting smaller.

No subscription needed

Looks like deceptive marketing practices.

I know bots are a problem. They’re in every game and gw2 isn’t immune to bots or hacks. When season 2 started you needed a screen shot to report people porting all over the map so without community help they would of went right past the devs. I don’t know what’s meant by clunky pvp however, because you need to be very quick to react to take advantage of the counters when they become available. There are features in both games I really like. For instance the dodge mechanic in gw2. I also like that it takes skill to target and there isn’t a ton of AoE in BnS laid on the ground. I like the ability to change builds in an instant like GW had in BnS and I like 1v1 or team pvp. I like gw2 maps (in ranked). There are a lot of features in both games that are a lot of fun.

What combat system do you guys like better a more reactive one like BnS or GW2. both are ncsoft games and there are a lot of similarities but what would you like from the one game added to or changed in the other.