Guild Wars 2

Workaround for me was to not bother trying to “Knockout” Vorrp. Instead just get detected, kill everything then kill Vorrp the old fashion way (mostly auto attacks). Even with his shield he takes damage.

It will happen on any transformation (like the cold potion etc).

Yup broken for me too.

Exact same here.

Squee Squashington.5189:

While MtD has made condi-shatter more viable. There’s no real advantage from doing 90% damage 3-6 seconds later over 100% damage now, let the fact that this damage is easily negated with utilities/traits that cleanse.

Also what Windwalker said about F2 being twice the cooldown of mindwrack, and IP giving instant access/an extra second of F3 & F4.

And with c-shatter it is a really huge tell to “cleanse now!” when the opponent sees the shatter happen. They should know you are going to be out of clones for at least a few seconds and they can go all out offense while that ramps up again.

DaveGan.8065:

Welp, if I’m going to be accused of trolling, I may as well go all out.

• Many of you have yet to cite a rule that said siege troll is breaking, falling back on the flawed assumption that the majority is entitled to its playstyle.

• You guys have so far failed to produce a single outcome where a siege troll definitively landed your server in a lower place than it deserved.

• An outsider looking in (or the siege trolls themselves) could easily accuse you of scapegoating all of your server’s morale, recruitment, coverage, and general performance failures on siege trolls instead of taking proper responsibility.

Perhaps it’s time to drop the “ANet is evil” narrative and think about why this issue isn’t getting the attention it seems to deserve.

Dave, you are asking questions that (I believe you know full well) are unanswerable.

Whether someones motives are malicious or not is not answerable since it is impossible to really know someones intentions. All we can do is look at the evidence and make a reasonable guess as to their intentions.

We can not quantitatively say that “x” troll caused “x” outcome. That is impossible. Again we can only say that given that siege speeds up the taking of objectives, and supply feeds siege, then it is reasonable to assume that it does have an affect on the outcome.

At this point I think you are just posing these questions because you know that no one can come in with any rock solid numbers on a spreadsheet to prove the outcomes are affected by siege trolls, and you believe that gives you an iron clad position.

Either way, I have given what I believe are reasonable solutions. Clearly you disagree. But given my statements above I don’t see you ever changing your mind, or coming up with any solutions that would meet your criteria.

DaveGan.8065:

dandamanno.4136:

I really don’t think the “how” is that complicated at all, for those with common sense. ( not meant to be a dig at you)

I never claimed it was either, so I’m not sure why others are so offended when I emphasize this. My posts in this thread are more along the lines of searching for an efficient, fair, and optimum way of dealing with the issue.

Many in the dungeon forums are quite bitter about the suggestion of only punishing the most egregious violators. I can almost guarantee that a similar policy to address siege trolls in WvW will not satisfy people here.

Honest and serious question: is there actually a matchup where this supply/siege blockage is actually affecting the outcome (rather than just the points), or is this more of an annoyance/morale issue?

In the case of the former, I’d strongly suggest making a focused thread about it with the evidence that it’s actually making a noticeable difference. (The ones here about outcomes seem focused on coverage or transfers.) In the case of the latter, my honest advice is to just grow thicker skin and lower expectations, as a harmless troll deserves no attention and publicity.

Hi Dave.

Right now in JQBL we are siege capped. We only hold our two north towers and our garrison.

We are unable to lay down any siege anywhere, for defense or to try and take any objectives, like bay or hills.

This is affecting the outcome, even though BG is far ahead at this point. It makes me not bother to log on because we can’t do anything. It is more than just an annoyance, it is a very real problem and it is exacerbated with Season 3 as there are some who will do whatever it takes to win, and they know there is little risk of being punished for it.

DaveGan.8065:

dandamanno.4136:

Are we in the majority or minority? You know this? If we were to poll the WvW community and ask the people if they believe GM’s should take action against those who completely drain towers and keeps to build 15-20 rams, do you think the majority would say they should or shouldn’t.

I would bet you are, in fact, in the minority. I do not think most people are so afraid of Anet banning innocent people who are just buying (spending gold and badges to do so) siege and building them for no apparent reason.

If you are still trying to argue the concept of “what” here, instead of “how”, then it’s clear your postings are meaningless ramblings to the choir that even I don’t disagree with.

Action for the sake of action makes the assumption that things couldn’t possibly get worse, which is a bigger fallacy than the partial fallacy of slippery slopes.

You may win your hypothetical scenario if you presented everyone with a yes/no question. Now try the same thing with the addition of a “I don’t really care” option. And guarantee that the only ones who will be affected are “the most egregious siege trolls”.

I already mentioned the “how” in my first thread. Make siege have an icon stating who laid it down. A large amount (if we must define it then let’s say more than 3) of siege in a keep or tower that serves no purpose, can hit no targets created by the same person can be considered “griefing”.

In regards to “most egregious”, they are the only ones that matter. I’m not sure what other types there are. It is always in excess of 5 siege (always purposeless, essentially rams in keeps) and sometimes waaay more. I have seen 15-20 at times.

I really don’t think the “how” is that complicated at all, for those with common sense. ( not meant to be a dig at you)

DaveGan.8065:

dandamanno.4136:

I would say they don’t have to define it. It’s their game and they can do whatever they want to at any time for any reason they see fit. THAT is at least defined in the ToS.

So they can simply suspend/ban them on the strong suspicion of unfair play/interfering with others enjoyment of the game. If the suspended people wish to appeal they are free to.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck…

edit: It would also be nice if siege had an icon for “created by” and give the name of the character who laid down the siege. It would help in a GM’s investigation.

Many, myself included, are extremely hesitant to quietly accept a precedent that GMs are allowed to act subjectively to a significant degree outside the rules.

I was active in FFXIV when they decided to do a blanket ban wave of everyone who had over a certain amount of gold (most stayed permabanned, and those who were reinstated after a month had 90-99% of their gold confiscated). Scapegoats for a broken and unsustainable casual economy (where most of the gold came from one-time leveling quests and there were few gold fountains).

Even in GW2, the karma weapons and snowflake ecto bans were the enforcement of a catch-all “no exploit” clause, despite the mild controversy of having catch-all clauses.

Perhaps most of the players in WvW are not concerned about the economy, or with precedent spilling into other game modes. But, until some here begin to see things beyond the lynch mob rage mentality, the brutal honesty is that you guys will stay a vocal minority that nobody else cares about.

Good luck!

Fear of what may come (the slippery slope argument) is not a good enough reason to do nothing.

Stuff that happened in other games is not a good enough reason to do nothing.

Are we in the majority or minority? You know this? If we were to poll the WvW community and ask the people if they believe GM’s should take action against those who completely drain towers and keeps to build 15-20 rams, do you think the majority would say they should or shouldn’t.

I would bet you are, in fact, in the minority. I do not think most people are so afraid of Anet banning innocent people who are just buying (spending gold and badges to do so) siege and building them for no apparent reason.

WvW is hardly a lucrative endeavor. Quite the opposite really, especially compared to PvE.

Nerfing loot seems mean.

DaveGan.8065:

CheezeStix.1076:

Deli.1302:

Samis.1750:

I started another thread here titled “Wouldn’t pay another 5 cents for this game” due to experiencing this problem.

Please tell me how anet is going to tell the difference between:
-a person building useless siege with malicious intent
-a person building useless siege because they don’t know better

I’m going to assume you have no idea what we’re talking about or you’re trolling.

It’s a serious and legitimate question. Can you describe “siege troll” without going to extreme cases or naming specific people?

Neither of us are defending it, but you have to be able to define it. If even you can’t answer the question how can ANet? The only thing they could do without a proper answer/definition would be to take action only on the most egregious trolls with multiple violations and reports. Someone in this thread would seem to confirm ANet is doing (or trying to do) at least that much.

I would say they don’t have to define it. It’s their game and they can do whatever they want to at any time for any reason they see fit. THAT is at least defined in the ToS.

So they can simply suspend/ban them on the strong suspicion of unfair play/interfering with others enjoyment of the game. If the suspended people wish to appeal they are free to.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck…

edit: It would also be nice if siege had an icon for “created by” and give the name of the character who laid down the siege. It would help in a GM’s investigation.

Transformations will do it also. Cold Potion and the like.

Belorn.2659:

Looks to be on of those “off by one zero” bugs that qualify for a hotfix.

One or two yah.

Reminds me of the Mesmer “descent into madness” trait bug that creates a chaos storm on falling damage.

Instead of 300 or so damage per pulse it was doing 30,000 per pulse, lol. Lasted for a few hours before a patch came.

Ah here it is:

You can take PU and shatter too? Or do you mean condi vs. power with PU trait?

I don’t understand great big farewell posts.

Why do people have to say goodbye like they are dying and will never play the game again? Just take some time away, play something else, check back every once in a while to see if changes are happening then start playing again when it looks like some of your concerns are being addressed.

Not to mention that if you do come back it makes your post seem really silly and self serving. There is a reason why “farewell” posts are not allowed.

I’ll echo a few people. AoE MoP is very nice and does do significant damage at range. Keep in mind it is instant cast so you can be doing all sorts of other things while nailing the button over and over. Same with MoD, you can hit it at the same time as other stuff like shatters or summoning. Good stuff.

IE lets me get 25 stacks of bleeds, perma burn in under 10 seconds on mobs with just eating some +40% duration food, no problem. Not to mention the fury and might uptime. This will be nerfed I can see it now.

Scepter is actually underwhelming considering all the concern people had. Only 4-5 stacks if JUST spamming auto attack. In reality it will probably contribute far less than that. This will not get nerfed. It’s fine.

Oh and have fun with the first ranger you come across. Their burst is very good now. It went something like this: Burst for 6000 (tracked me in stealth), stealthed himself, came out of stealth, knockback/knockdown followed by barrage, second Rapid Fire burst, pet knockdown, then switched to Greatsword for some other stuff.

In the end some other players showed up as I went down, (we went down almost together as I was creating staff clones and dodging this whole time trying to get a footing, that should tell you just how OP staff clones are-they were my only source of damage) so I “won”.

It’s a good thing we got some buffs.

It’s just gonna be the LED’s and glowing keyboards and stuff that Alienware rigs have on them. They will light up and glow different colours and stuff.

Underwater combat:

-only has 2 choices for weapons so there is no build diversity
-have virtually no traits associated with it which limits any build diversity
-resets certain “charged” utilities, un-summons pets
-is terribly unbablanced between classes, more so even than “land” builds
-is difficult to judge depth with (imo)

Generally my underwater strategy is to get back on land as soon as possible where the “real” fights are.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

skcamow.3527:

Fay.2357:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

it will remove blinds

Not a big buff for clone-death builds, but a significant buff for non-clone-death builds that happen to take a clone death trait.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

and blocks now

This is pretty significant for clone death builds. More consistent application of scepter torment blocks in particular is very strong.

And people might start blowing dodges to evade clone deaths (go figure). That could actually turn out to be a very good thing depending on the build/situation. If we can get them to waste dodges to avoid a couple bleed stacks, we can anticipate, set up and have a greater chance of landing our next attack/burst.

I love the way this forum thinks lol. People at first say clone death was a nerf (the DD change was a straight up nerf), but now its turning out to be a pretty large buff after some brainstorming.

That’s a byproduct of theory-crafting. It’s got nothin’ on actual experience.

It will be interesting to dig up these threads in a month or two and see how wrong people were (or how right).

My bet is Mesmer stays right where it is in all game modes.

Yup PU is like cancer:

-everyone is rolling Mesmer from other classes
-all those Mesmers are traiting PU
-PU is slowly spreading and taking over all game modes

Warriors, Guardians and Elementalists will soon be swallowed by the cancer that is PU due to PU incredible versatility and domination across all game modes.

All I see in chat these days “lfg PU Mesmer speed run!” and “PU Mesmers take the Vanguard, we are going to push through the zerg! More Ethereal fields!” and “Leave a PU Mesmer to hold all 3 points! Easy win!”

/sarcasm

What I would like to see:

Signet of Illusions (90s CD)
Passive: Grants you illusions swiftness.
Active: Recharge your shatter skills.

Signet of Midnight (30s CD)
Passive: Grants more health to your illusions
Active: Blind nearby foes (5s).

Rimmy.9217:

dandamanno.4136:

I refresh siege that I run across. That’s it. Why would I play a game that required me to run around doing something terribly boring for hours a day?

Maybe it helps your team win, maybe not. But at the end of the week it’s not like you get any dazzling rewards (for winning the match or refreshing siege) and no one will remember your work refreshing sieges anyway.

Play for fun and don’t let anyone else tell you how you should be spending your time.

Your “dazzling reward” comes when the siege is available to defend with when your opponents come a-knocking.

The game doesn’t require you to do anything – it’s your choice to refresh siege. If you ‘want to be remembered’ as you say, then do something memorable.

And I say this coming from a server where nobody refreshes siege, so we often don’t bother until our gates are being hit.

I think we agree? Don’t blow your playing time doing things you find to be unfun. Find ways to contribute doing fun things instead.

Trust me, you don’t want the skill to work like Arcane Thievery. That skill misses very regularly for seemingly no reason.

Kadj.6725:

Don’t tell them to look at it unless you’re ready for torment on cast.

Actually I think many people would have been much happier with 2 stacks torment for 5 seconds in addition to the confusion on image rather than scepter. Would have made more sense too.

iMage attacks every 7-8 seconds without pHaste so the stacks wouldn’t get high unless pHaste was traited, which provides good ’ol counter play; destroy phantasm or go after mesmer.

I refresh siege that I run across. That’s it. Why would I play a game that required me to run around doing something terribly boring for hours a day?

Maybe it helps your team win, maybe not. But at the end of the week it’s not like you get any dazzling rewards (for winning the match or refreshing siege) and no one will remember your work refreshing sieges anyway.

Play for fun and don’t let anyone else tell you how you should be spending your time.

While I am not necessarily against this addition, I do wonder exactly how much more hand-holding we need in PvE.

Leveling in GW2 is already one of the fastest, easiest experiences I have had in any mmos I have played.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

• The most epic duel versus a very rare build.. Inspiration-Shatter! This was one of the most fun best of 3’s I’ve ever had, and I never expected the build to be so powerful! Check it out here! Props and shoutouts to Illusory Dilettante!

Loved watching this duel

Eidt: One question, at the 12:10 mark you use blink to get atop the rock. I saw no cursor or any aiming reticule at all. How do you aim this? Or is this just an editing trick?

Sandrox.9524:

what? prolly the best condi cleanse we have with the trait :P

I think idisenchanter might be better (2 boons and 2 conditions removed per bounce and it has 1 more bounce on a 20s cd) but they both suffer a bit from a lack of on demand cleansing and RNG. Oh and the fact they can be killed too.

What Ynot said.

A very high percentage of uplevels, probably just looking to lvl up their WvW skills quickly, get taken down by a well organized group. Boring TBH.

I mean at the beginning of the video they don’t even fight back for the first few seconds of the fight, then they all start backpedaling away.

EotM is without a doubt the worst team-play WvW has to offer. We talk about “mindless zerging” all the time in WvW, and that term is at its truest form in EotM.

Like phirefox above says, PvE mobs attacks slowly with large telegraphs and take breaks between attacks.

In PvP people attack constantly and you will find at some point you are out of evasive maneuvers. The trick is knowing which attacks to avoid, not to avoid all of them.

Learning to use active defense is very imporatnant and I agree poeple just starting out should practice.

Oh and if you want some advice on your post, I think you should look at your bulleting/numbering/lettering format. It’s crazy and makes no sense.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Just give people a little idea on how wide is mantra AoE is, see 2:26-2:31 for MoP’s 240 range. Also see 2:31 to 2:37 for MoD’s 180 range. Would you guys think this range is sufficient for zerg?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu-cKaSZbnQ

MoP is the same range as Chaos Storm (240) so it’s good. MoD 180 will be much less good, but I look forward to testing out this build or something similar come 9/9.

Speaking of mantras, has anyone given any thought to the new AoE mantra capabilities for WvW zerg potential?

Taking staff, and MoD and confounding suggestions that is a whole lot of insta-cast 1200 range AoE daze/stun.

Along with halting strike for extra damage and MoP spam with the right traits in Dom and Duel, it sounds good on paper, and doesn’t rely on clones which never survive these encounters…

Henrik.7560:

dandamanno.4136:

I guess power PU options don’t get much attention ‘cause they simply don’t have the same ability to hide in stealth like the condition variation. Condition PU can allow their clones to do condition damage while they stay hidden, but the power version simply can’t do this and has to actively apply damage, which means stealthing is a net loss damage wise.

Maybe a phantasm version but then you won’t get all the good phantasm traits, and damage takes a nerf that way.

I played a power PU version for a few weeks a few months ago, and while the play style is more fun, it is far less effective. That is probably why you don’t hear too much about it, it is simply far less popular.

Anyhow, I see the power version as getting a bit more offense, a bit less defense and the bleed nerf on DD to be irrelevant.

Um, wrong. Try a 4/4/6/0/0 zerker or soldier pu build. Bring out your phants when you are in stealth, they will be doing masses amounts of damage while the enemy can not hit you.

Furthermore, this change isn’t really that big, so its nothing for pu condi/power to yay or nay about.

Of course I used the 44600 build with power PU. And it is less effective than a condi PU due to gearing and AoE conditions that actually have some oomph to them. With berzerker you can do good damage but it will be about 20-25% less damage without the phantasm traits I mentioned.

My point was there is a reason people complain about condi PU and not power PU. And the reason is because of trait spread the power PU build is more self limited (some might say balanced) compared to the condition version. You get PU for added defense, but give up really strong damage modifier traits.

Andraus.3874:

dandamanno.4136:

I guess power PU options don’t get much attention ‘cause they simply don’t have the same ability to hide in stealth like the condition variation. Condition PU can allow their clones to do condition damage while they stay hidden, but the power version simply can’t do this and has to actively apply damage, which means stealthing is a net loss damage wise.

Maybe a phantasm version but then you won’t get all the good phantasm traits, and damage takes a nerf that way.

I played a power PU version for a few weeks a few months ago, and while the play style is more fun, it is far less effective. That is probably why you don’t hear too much about it, it is simply far less popular.

Anyhow, I see the power version as getting a bit more offense, a bit less defense and the bleed nerf on DD to be irrelevant.

This is a phantasm build and you do take the phantasm traits. Interrupting to get might is the key to this build otherwise your damage is going to be pretty crappy. It’s also easy to hide in stealth when your phantasms are out or just summon them from stealth. Although again you need to time interrupts well which is why I take arcane thievery to steal stability when I need to.

Without IC, Phantasmal Strength, and compounding power it is missing alot of damage modifiers, but ok, I get it.

Also, we haven’t really seen what the might and swiftness stacks/duration will be. (have we?)

If it’s 1 stack of might for 5 seconds, and/or swiftness for 5 seconds then this is really just a total nerf.

I guess power PU options don’t get much attention ‘cause they simply don’t have the same ability to hide in stealth like the condition variation. Condition PU can allow their clones to do condition damage while they stay hidden, but the power version simply can’t do this and has to actively apply damage, which means stealthing is a net loss damage wise.

Maybe a phantasm version but then you won’t get all the good phantasm traits, and damage takes a nerf that way.

I played a power PU version for a few weeks a few months ago, and while the play style is more fun, it is far less effective. That is probably why you don’t hear too much about it, it is simply far less popular.

Anyhow, I see the power version as getting a bit more offense, a bit less defense and the bleed nerf on DD to be irrelevant.

Carighan.6758:

scerevisiae.1972:

That is pretty much the opposite of what a well-designed game should be aiming for. A smaller, more skilful force should always be able to overcome a larger, disorganised force. DS in this respect is very much an anti-skill feature.

No that’s actually a very important design-decision to make.

Do you want your game’s large-scale combat to focus on top-end balance? The higher your balance pivot point, the more personal performance should be able to trump numbers or classes or specs. At the very highest point your “game” should no longer even matter. The player has “a class”, “a spec” and “a context”, but none of these have any impact whats-o-ever on the outcome of a fight. Even if it’s that one player versus 30 other players. Only skill matters, if the one player can fight well he can kill 30 players one-by-one.

On the flipside, do you want your game to feel meaningful to more casual players? You’re designing a RPG, use its inherent system to make players feel viable even when they aren’t experience or simply aren’t good at it (you may disagree, but these players want to play video games and feel viable doing so, and usually they are aware they’re bad players so there’s no reason to rub it in). Classes can counter each other, so a lesser player on the right class against the right class will have a serious advantage, securing them wins against players they should normally not be able to best.
Or maybe you support a larger scale of warfare, where players can band together and despite weaker individual performance down their enemy with sheer numerical superiority.

This is in no way inherently negative. It may seem to from yours or mine perspective because we’re good at what we do and we want our games to reward our personal play performance, but as a developer it’s not an easy decision to make, and depending on game you’re working on it is very important to be more inclusive with your design.

So are you saying that ANET implemented DS in part so that a larger force will have an insurmountable advantage over a smaller force? I dont’ think so. I think it is just a by product of how DS works and is an unintended side effect they don’t wish/don’t care to change.

Shouldn’t a numbers advantage be enough? Why does the larger force also get to have an additional advantage in DS rez time?

I agree that new players should feel helpful, but TBH it doesn’t take much to hop on your GWEN character find the commander tag and spam your skills. You ARE contributing and being helpful.

But part of the fun in playing the game is to learn how to be the most effective, so you can get better, and that getting better will MATTER in future encounters.

Otherwise the game truly is only about greater numbers, not performance or class knowledge, which is sad, boring and drive people away from the game mode.

I agree that people shouldn’t have to WvW just to get map completion.

Back in JQ heyday they were top (green) week after week after week. It took a couple months for JQ to flip the last red keep in EB I needed for map completion.

There is really nothing similar for WvWers to complain about. You can go anywhere and get any PoI or waypoint in PvE land easily. Not so the other way around. The argument of “Why do I have to go do PvE maps?” is not comparable.

Carighan.6758:

dandamanno.4136:

I do wish they would change the downed state in WvWvW. It is annoying when a smaller group outplays a larger one, but simply can’t wipe the other group out because the numbers advantage allows them to consistently rez.

In PvE it’s fine, and in sPVP it works because of balanced numbers on each team, but yah in WvW it could use a tweak.

My suggestion would be to double the rate of health loss in downed state in WvW and also no hard rez at all. If you die you die. Respawn.

But… then how would numerical advantage be important? One of the key concepts of warfare, have better numbers and deploy so that at each individual engagement you got superior numbers despite in total not having more (same map cap!).

That’s how army tactics work. Superior local force. I mean, that’s quite obviously what the escalating rally/rezz mechanics are there to implement. They give a serious advantage to whoever can have the better local deployment. Now, how to consistently do that despite having the same team size in total, yeah, that’s difficult.

Numerical advantage would still work exactly as it does now. You have 40 guys, they have 10 guys. You have the advantage. My point is if the 40 are outplayed by the 10 and end up having 10 players downed, while the other team only loses 1, that should count for something.

As it is now the team with 40 can simply, easily res the 10 downed players and be back at 40 no problem, but the 10 will probably be working too hard to res the 1 they lost. So in the end the 40 “bad players” will win even though they are outplayed BECAUSE of the downed state.

Without the downed state they very well may lose.

I’d love it to be expanded upon actually. I’d like overmanned armies to get a “Overmanned” debuff, where you no longer get a downed state.

You should still be able to win since you outnumber the other side, unless of course you are a terrible zerg, and the other, smaller opponent groups are more organized and skillful.

I do wish they would change the downed state in WvWvW. It is annoying when a smaller group outplays a larger one, but simply can’t wipe the other group out because the numbers advantage allows them to consistently rez.

In PvE it’s fine, and in sPVP it works because of balanced numbers on each team, but yah in WvW it could use a tweak.

My suggestion would be to double the rate of health loss in downed state in WvW and also no hard rez at all. If you die you die. Respawn.

Having leveled all to 80, I would have to say Warrior is best overall.

Good damage + cleave… check
Constant swiftness…check
Tough to kill…check
Easy to learn…check

Sometimes a little too basic which can be boring, but still overall the best class in PvE.

Clownmug.8357:

Can anybody tell me if Death Nova is evadable and if blinded minions affect it? I see that it’s unblockable on the Wiki. It would be nice to know if this trait works the same, otherwise it makes the changes seem biased.

AFAIK passive traits that activate were always unavoidable.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

Mesmers “on death” traits may be the first ever to no longer apply.

It’s a style I will probably try after the next update.

I have to say, wow, what a terrible Guardian + Thief at the 4 minute mark, lol.

Good job using the block btw, as many players are wise to it these days and will bait it out quite well, but you landed it pretty consistantly.

Brigg.6189:

Minions and spirit weapons are going to need burning, torment and confusion on their autoattacks. Devs plz lissen.

People might actually use spirit weapons if they did.

Swish.2463:

scepter AA chain takes 3.9s

IC+CD = 4s Phase retreat, go test it for yourself if you dont believe me.

You are correct about the AA chain. It takes longer than the 1/2 +1/2 + 1s the tooltips states due to projectile time.

You are wrong about IC + CD though. It goes to 6 seconds (cooldown appears kitten seconds at start due to whole numbers only being shown.)

edit man sometimes i dont get this profanity filter. I guess “as” followed by “5” is a donkey synonym.

What people are generally forgetting is that you need to pull 20 (err.. 4) points from somewhere to get IE.

Assuming you want PU and DE, that means you lose Crippling D and the torch cooldown which means less stealth, less condition removal, and tougher to stay away from your opponent. I think it balances out pretty well.

I think dropping PU is a good option to get back Crippling TBH.

Anyway the reason people are focusing on Scepter AA is cuase it is a direct addition to the “Blackwater” spec without having to sacrifice anything.

edit ahhh! Ninja denis

Yes. I think in practical play keeping up 3 scepter clones without dodging, blocking stealthing and other active play will be pretty tough.

That said they should probably remove the extra second of stealth from PU to help keep that spec in check. It has been too strong for a while now.

Crossplay.2067:

Or they could hardcap swiftness at 60 seconds.

I guess so, but might as well just make TC give 60s worth since passing over it 5 -6 times is very easy.

It is clear the game can track who gave whom a certain buff as is evident if you mouse over a buff icon. It will tell you the source of the buff, which appears to be the last person to contribute to that buff.

I think the solution for ANET is to track the buff source info for several seconds as to not allow a person to pass over the TC line several times if you already have the buff from that particular source.

It would also have to track what skill the buff comes from which I am not sure it does now.

So basically they need the system to track buff source (player) and buff source (skill), and then they can institute whatever buff rules they wish.

This is the best solution and unfortunately the hardest programming wise, which is why we have seen no fix for 2 years.