Guild Wars 2

I would prefer some level of clipping

starting to sound bitter and cynical … I’d better stay away from the forums for a while.

As you can read here Tomiyou there is no actual problem.

Your friend can still play level 50 fractals as before. (ok, they are faceroll-content instead of challenging as before) It may feel like level 30 but it is still level 50, tho.

He can’t come with you when you’d like to play T4 levels. But hey, you can find new friends on the lfg to play with, and so can he!

Or he can buy the expansion and play the all-new-Heart-of-Thorns-fractals where you can get FIFTY NEW FRACTALS! They may look the same as before, but let me tell you, they are not!

Tomiyou.3790:

Can he still get the masteries?

No he can’t

If not, how is he suppose to attune his rings for more AR!?

He can’t attune them.

Here is an actual discussion about this very problem:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Non-HoT-Accounts

Cyninja.2954:

Thus the analogy was biased and faulty.

I don’t think so. But we’re not going anywhere here I guess.

All the while you left no room in your analogy for the oh so well payed software engineers (or how the toystore was supposed to pay for them). I suppose they get their kingly salary out of that onetime game purchase 4 years ago.

You don’t need to ridicule my statements just because you don’t like what I say. So you’re saying that the customer is responsible for the salary of the employees at the company where he buys something?

The things you say do not match the real world situations you describe. Software engineers only get payed well if the company they work for does not go belly up.

http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx
They are doing fine. They are working on the next expansion. Which I believe will also sell good. And again. It’s not the customers duty to care about. Or do you go to every business where you were customer once and buy there something (even if you don’t want to have it) just to get sure the company is still doin’ fine?

Cyninja.2954:

This entire thread is littered with people commenting on faulty pay2win arguments and people complaining about having to buy the expansion. Not sure how you did not notice this.

I did notice it. Yes, that’s the crux of the matter. How do you define what’s part of the expansion and what’s part of the core game. And as I said, I think nearly everybody is fine with story and maps as an expansion. Some other parts we’re discussing here about.

Cyninja.2954:

No, that is the problem of your limited analogy. You omited the “unfun” parts to make it sound in favor of a point you were trying to make. I was simply pointing out the flaws and omited facts in it.

Analogys are limited most of the time. It’s in their nature. … I omited the server costs etc., because the game was sold without later costs.

Cyninja.2954:

Yes, if you payed for the game 4 years ago you are entitled to free future content, patches, expansions and basically slave labor off of the deveopement staff. Just how communist are you?

I found no one here who wants to be entitled for free content or expansions. I think nearly everybody here is fine with paying for new maps or story. But a paywall for existing content is like a subscription fee backdoor.
Slave labor the development staff? I don’t know the prices in Seattle, but software engineers are payed quite good most places.

Asrat.2645:

However I think it would be the only decent move to at least make the fractal vendor available for players without the mastery.

That would fix the problem quite well.

Cyninja.2954:

Except that that analogy is faulty since it:
- does not account for the ball producing continued cost to the store (which GW2 does in form of developement, server cost, patches)
- the ball does not stop “working” if the store goes bankrupt

But that’s the problem of the toystore, because they chose this business model. The boy got told he just has to pay once.

- properly reflect the view of people who feel entitled to free stuff

If you paid for it, it is not free.

Dahkeus.8243:

If you honestly feel that your year and a half of GW2 wasn’t worth the $60 you paid for the game…well…good luck finding something else.

It was worth every penny I paid. But I don’t wanna pay 40€ + for an expansion I don’t wanna have, to play stuff I already paid for.

You can still play ‘The Fissure of Woe’ or ‘The Underworld’ today without artificial restrictions when you only have bought Prophecies.

Vinceman.4572:

Ah I see, you are lacking the 1.5 years…well the argumentation is the same buying an 1.5 year old car.

Never complained about the missing 1.5 years, not sure why you’re bringing this up?

Vinceman.4572:

You WANT to have it, so do something for it.

I’m doing something. … I’m complaining here.

Vinceman.4572:

You have children, be an example and stop complaining. It’s getting more and more ridiculous, like a little kid that doesn’t get the sweets.

Oh, this forum is not for complaining. Just for happy talk? … How’s weather in Germany?

I’m feeling a bit insulted by the last part. So I will stop answering to your upcoming posts if you don’t mind.

Vinceman.4572:

Well, you must have been in the top tier of PvP players then.

Exactly. Because only the top tier players can tell a difference between pre and post HoT builds.

Iris Ng.9845:

This is getting awkward when the most simple solution would be someone buy her the expansion.

ANet employees have to pay bills, taxes, mortgage, insurance and tend to their children, too.

Oh, that’d be sweet. <3 … But I don’t want the XPAC … just play fractals as before.

Vinceman.4572:

Yeah, you should not choose the first or darkest seller coming along. Inform yourself, like I already stated, Google can help you. It’s not that hard.

Yes I informed myself, that’s why I posted those links. One with the OFFICIAL retailers. I’m not making this up.

Vinceman.4572:

Let’s suppose you started at release (or even in beta), so you had over 3 (!) years game experience in an online game for a price of around 50€ and not a single cent more.
Please calculate the the price per hour and when you’re done compare it to other video games and any other time consuming hobby.

It’s not even one and a half year and somewhat around 500hours … so someone with 5000hours should have paid 10x the price? Because we’re not kittening commies, are we?

Vinceman.4572:

Playing cards will be cheaper but even if you do sports, the shoes, the clothes are in addition way more expensive than playing Guild Wars 2.

And for sports you’re considering the cost of shoes and clothes – but for an online game you’re taking hardware, internet and electricity out of the equation? Maybe that’s why we’re on different opinions on money and prices.

Oh, now I get it … you’re just playing with the box! Now it does make sense. And than there is barely any differnce to the xpac.

Vinceman.4572:

Now they change and add something in the game, you are only excluded from 25 levels in fractals unless you buy higher infusions which is possible after a certain time and you feel neglected?

I’m playing fractals most of my time. Pre and post HoT. So if I’m getting excluded from ‘only’ the last 25 levels (those with the challenge and the loot) … yes, if feel neglected. If it were the lower 25 levels i would not complain.

And with higher infusions you’re talking about these?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/20_Agony_Infusion

I would have 130 AR with three of them. … If you’d send me three of those I will stop complaining on this game … FOREVER! … AND BUY THE XPAC!

Vinceman.4572:

I don’t take the PvP argument seriously because we have several posters at least in the german forum that are playing without expac and have no issues. Yeah, if you want to compete in the esports scene you have to upgrade, but that has always been a thing in competitions whatever they are.

If you can’t see a difference in the PvP builds due to specializations, i can’t take your arguments seriously anymore.

Vinceman.4572:

Yeah, you are one out of …. how much? 1000? 10000? SAB and WvW are big themes for the community or at least a huge part of it, yours is not, that’s the difference you can’t deny it.

Oh, I didn’t knew that you’re the one who decides which complaints are important and which are not. But that would explain a lot.

Vinceman.4572:

Google is your friend. You can buy the expac for the amount of 30€ from several serious sources. Why you have to take them from the most expensive ones like the official store, amazon and your local store? This is really no argument at all!

Some people lost their accounts / money because they trusted some shady Internet offers:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/Buying-HoT-through-a-3rd-Party-Careful/first#post5175830
https://www.guildwars2.com/retailers/
All GW2 official retailers I get recommended are 40€ and up.

Vinceman.4572:

Sorry, first I have to answer is: Playing an online game is luxury, nothing else. So, you either invest or not. If you aren’t able to, then you aren’t able to, period.
…
Sorry, you can’t tell me that there weren’t 45€ for yourself on christmas or ….

Ok. getting to personal for me here. I don’t have to justify to you how I am spending my money. I don’t think you’ll ever understand that 45€ is a lot of money for some people, as long as you’re not in that position yourself. Yes it is luxury.

But when I bought the game they stated: You pay once and there will be no additional costs. That was THE unique selling point, they marketed with, to be other than all those other MMO’s. And that was the main reason why I bought the game! Because I can’t afford those other expensive MMO’s.

Vinceman.4572:

But I think all this won’t solve your problem because your mind is set.

How is my mind set? I’m complaining about the experience I made. How is your mind not set? You say, you’re not facing those problems … maybe because you’re having the expac?

The only thing we can tell is that they won’t change the system like it is now because the modifications were made to let people buy the expac. You can complain, rant or laugh about it nothing will happen.

Exactly. SAB came back because people were complaining. 90% of the Spring update is stuff people were complaining about. WvW Borderlands will be Alpine soon … because people complained about it. But maybe I have more faith in Areanet than you.
(Funfact: Read the Spring-update with the fact in mind that your not having HoT. Spoiler: Suddenly it’s a reeeeaaaally small update.)

Vinceman.4572:

My personal thought in this case: If there is content I’ll want to play so badly, I invest money. The expac is about 30€/$ these days which is justified for the content by now (+ after the recent patch). I can also understand people not willing to get it but hey, that’s their deal. And I also don’t want a discussion about 30€/$ being expensive or kids/students having no money and so forth. Work for it, save for it or wait for birthday/christmas.

• Funny is, that you’re arguing all against it, but also say you won’t discuss it.

• Your mentioned 30€ twice. I’m seeing it at 45€ in the official shop. 40€ at amazon and 40€ at my local store.

• If 30/40/45€ is not much money for you. You should be happy. I’m happy for you, that you’re in this position.
  But not everybody is. I’m working and I’m a parent. After paying mortgage and bills most of the money left goes to the kids.
  And if I’d choose to spend some money on me alone, there are a lot of things higher on my wishlist (5 year old PC / small monitor) than on an overpriced xpac, that took stuff away from me.

Vinceman.4572:

Work for it, save for it or wait for birthday/christmas.

As a parent: birthday/christmas COSTS me money. Parents are Santa Claus

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

emma.5967:

Fractals:

I get less Loot, can’t get all AR Slots, can’t get +7AR Infusions, can’t get mistlock singularity or fractal tonics.

That’s incorrect. You get less loot than you would with HoT, but it’s about the same as if there hadn’t been an expansion (source: my alt account, that sometimes leeches a fifth spot). Similarly, yeah, you can’t do higher-level fractals without the extra agony being affordable, however you can do about the same number of levels as you used to.

That’s incorrect. They just streched the difficulties from 50 to 100. I could play the challenging fractals prior to the update (lvl 50) and I’m excluded from the challenging ones now. (90+) Actual lvl 50 is facerolling content and similar to 30s fractals prior to the update. If you tell me that playing an actual level 50 fractal is challenging or fun, you will never understand my point.

Vinceman.4572:

If you persist that you are getting kicked not having viper gear, you were joining groups asking you to ping your gear. Don’t do that, leave those group asap or better, if a gear check is written in the lfg, don’t even join these ones! They are not faster, they are not better and the atmosphere is way worse than a usual group with only numbers like “69”. I promise you the kick rate will decrease instantly.

As I wrote in my Original Post:

(And no, I don’t even join groups which advertise ‘meta only’ or ‘ping gear’ even if I am as close to meta as I can get and my gear is maxed out)

I avoid these groups like the plague!

Vinceman.4572:

Well, you bought your acc to a time when there were offers about 10$/€ per account, so I think this is a fair price for the stuff you are still able to play. If you have paid more it’s your own thing because GW2 was on the market for over 2 years, it wasn’t a new game.
You feel excluded now? Look at the price for the expansion at the moment. It’s a gift due to the fact the expac has been released since 6 months.
Time goes on, deal with it. Same thing when buying a 2 year old car and not having the actual settings.
Referring to the kicking people. I feel sorry for you. Must be in NA, in EU almost no one gets kicked, the groups aren’t even recommending a ar check before. It can happen that you will be kicked if not having the required amount but that is fair tbh because you wanted to cheat your way through letting others carry your weight. Ok, there is another chance of getting kicked short before or during the fractal. Your chat language doesn’t fit with the atmosphere of the group. And again, like the ar thing, you are the one who would be the problem then.

I’m playing on EU … and get kicked a lot.

Not because of my language. Because often I get kicked before I can even say hi.

If I would miss out on AR I would not complain if they’d kick me. But as I already wrote in my first post. I even stood in the AR-well to show them, that I have enough.

No one has to carry me. It’s often the other way round. But I would never kick somebody, because he doesn’t perform as good as others.

I get kicked because I don’t have Viper’s Stats (which I can’t get because of HoT) or because I’m not playing Reaper (which I can’t because of HoT)

And I cant play the last 10 level. Because I’m missing out on AR (which I can’t because of HoT)

The fractals experience? Grinding XP just so you can still play the same fractals ADDS something to the experience?

Cyninja.2954:

emma.5967:

No, because the toy store said, you can pay once, and play as long as we’re open.

Ah, okay. So arenanet eployees now work for free, the game servers will be running infinately without ever needing to get payed for and any Living Story content that gets developed falls out of the sky. Yeah, that works.

They marketed and SOLD it so. Game should pay through gemstore. It’s not the players fault if the business decision didn’t work out exactly as they liked it to be. And they’re making good money with the game. You shouldn’t be have to worry about the company actually.

No, because the toy store said, you can pay once, and play as long as we’re open.

Because fractals is part of the core game, and not of the expansion.

A fractured Tale

A little boy goes into a Toystore.

Boy: “Hello sir, I’d like to buy this red ball.”
Toystore Clerk: “Here you go little fella, that’d be 30 bucks.”

The boy pays the clerk and gets the ball. He plays ball with his friends a lot and is happy.
Some time has passed and the little boy still enjoys playing with his ball.
Suddenly the Toystore Guy appears.

T: “Hey little fella. We’re making updates on all our balls.”
B: “Umm. Ok, I guess?”

He hands out the ball to the toystore Guy. The toystore guy changes the color of the ball to green, deflates it a bit and hands it out to the little boy.

T: “Here you go, little fella.”
B: “Why is my ball missing air now?”
T: "Because now you can get the new full inflated Ball of Thorns which is all flashy ‘n stuff. That’d be 40 bucks. We have costs, you know … "
B: “40 bucks is a lot of money for me.”
WhiteKnightDude: “Hey just give him the 40 bucks. You already played hundreds of hours with your ball. Don’t you think it’s worth more? Don’t be a cheap kitten.”
B: “…”

Hello there,

first a little word about my account and me.

My account is a little over one year old and NOT free2play. I play mainly fractals / dungeons / sPvP. (rarely dungeons since HoT) I have over 8300 AP. I have 56 Tyrian mastery points I can’t use. Got to Ruby in sPvP this Season (without HoT). And my personal Fractal Level is 91. And as you can see HERE my little Asuran necromancer is full ascended/sinister and has as much AR as I can/will afford.

What I wanted to express here: I know how to play.

My problems with this game:

I bought this account because it was advertised with: Pay once, play as long as you want. But after half a year I feel more and more blackmailed to upgrade to HoT.

Fractals:

I get less Loot, can’t get all AR Slots, can’t get +7AR Infusions, can’t get mistlock singularity or fractal tonics. Fractals didn’t have changed much with HoT. They have splitted them up from 4 to 1 and changed some numbers agonywise. But that was basically it. They didn’t even add a new one. So why do I have to pay, to still play this content, even if they advertised it with Pay once, play as long as you want.

PvP:

(I don’t wanna discuss this here, because there are already some threads about it)
In short: HoT specialization meta > nearly every vanilla post HoT build

Guild Halls:

I can spend my stuff to all of the nice guild hall upgrades, but I can use only a few of them.

The ‘great community’:

I get kicked out instantly

pre HoT: Rarely
post HoT: More often
post spring patch: yesterday alone FROM 4 %$#?ING GROUPS

(And no, I don’t even join groups which advertise ‘meta only’ or ‘ping gear’ even if I am as close to meta as I can get and my gear is maxed out) And it was after 11pm. So I’m guessing that would have been mostly adult players. One of them was a fractal#83 group which is one of the easier ones. I even stood in the Agony well to proof that I have enough AR. I have > 8kAP and they can see I got to ruby … still get kicked out.

Please AreaNet!

Let me at least have Fractal Masteries. I don’t wanna have the new maps, I’m not interrested in raiding, I don’t wanna play revenant, but please let me enjoy fractals as I enjoyed them pre HoT.

Cinematics / Design / Music … Sorry, that’s three.

I love the Ranger, Elementalist and Necromancer Armor

This looks like one of those demonstration-cardboard-signs for me … internet version.

Nero.8047:

Red and Purple SAB-weapons were shown in the wardrobe at some point in-game.

Does someone have a screenshot of this maybe. Haven’t found some on the interwebs.

Gremix.2514:

…..snip ….
As for people wanting the game to be as casual as possible? How do you define casual? I consider myself a casual yet I still want more content that cannot be bought and requires either individual skill or group-based skill.

Problem here is, that people were hungry for new content and a huge group of players wished SAB would come back. And than there are so many shiny skins and effects where so many players in FashionWars2 are looking for. To gate this behind “HardCore content” (i think it’s more hardcore grind, than hardcore skill, but that would be an other thread) is the wrong choice in my opinion.

It should be like Queens Gauntlet where it was a small part of the festival, not the most part of it.

I think, the base problem and why they had to legit this is: they didn’t want to declare this as an exploit (which it is to a certain degree) to confront the players while the LegendaryGate kittenstorm isn’t gone already.

This would have caused some trouble afterwards.

1.) First of all it would be a lot of work (and we know already they’re missing out on developers)

2.) They’d have to punish the players who offered the service (whether paid for or for friends) and that would have been a huge group of people.

3.) They’d had to handle with the players who got the tokens/skins/baubles already

a) They’d let them have it, and people would complain they should not have it and those who haven’t used the services would see themselves in disadvantage.
b) They’d take it away, and people would complain that they paid for running service or building costs, and argue that running dungeons and raids was allowed.

To legit this was (while not the perfect) but the right choice IMO.

Gremix.2514:

People are routinely calling for more achievement/skill based things in the game that cannot be trivialized by someone with a large wallet. We get one, and it goes out the window. >.>

*some people

And some people want the game to be as casual as possible. There isn’t only one correct answer to this.

Frenk.5917:

I have a dream: a reworked eotm (less edges and pve) which would function as “borderland”, with DBL as 2nd BL and Alpine BL as third BL and, of course, EBG.

YES! PLEASE!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moto's_Unstable_Bauble_Infusion:_Red
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moto's_Unstable_Bauble_Infusion:_Blue

I’d love to have green ones …

A lot of you may already know that … but I wondered why they chose orange as the color for the new Kaiser Snake weapons when we already had yellow ones … but then it hit me. It’s the item quality codes.
fine > masterwork > rare > exotic > ….
blue > green > yellow > orange > pink > purple

So we may see pink SAB weapons next year?

Myralien.6754:

It doesn’t “stop” at 100, but you need to craft much better infusions to be competitive, so.. still not p2w

sure … it’s possible to get at 130 AR with 3 of these:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/20_Agony_Infusion

…. but I don’t have 25k Gold, do you?

With the same effort you’re getting with HoT to 150 AR you’re getting without HoT to 100AR. With the expansion you’re missing out on 50AR and that’s gamebreaking at Fractals 90 and above. Because you’re getting agony for staying in the near of your allies. And when you’re missing out on 50AR … you’re dead.

Drakz.7051:

The only way HoT is p2w is when it comes to pvp but that is where it ends. In a dungeon or fractal a f2p can do just as well as a b2p user.

That’s not correct for fractals. Without HoT your agony resistance stops at 100ish. With HoT 150ish. That’s a HUGE gap.

i’d like to see the old maps coming back, too

are there some news about it? actually all these really expensive infusions are totally useless now.