Guild Wars 2

Eurantien.4632:

Thief is good, its just that Dragonhunter and Revenant are so much better.

What he said . The class is in a weird spot but not because it’s weak itself but because overpowered stuffs are floating around . It remember me the time when necro started to make a spot in the meta just because all others classes keep getting nerf when necro was almost untouched . People tend to forget also thief was a dominant class in the meta for the past 3 years , the class alone was pushing Mesmer out of the meta . Thief is not " weak " , but others classes are too strong for sure . Thieves will shine again , ANET must not do the same mistake as allways , stop the powercreep and shave what’s need to be shaved . Overall I think the ratio of damage / surv on others classes is absurd when thief still have to make a choice between be survivable and be able to kill people .

PS :Bad english is bad ik

Magira.6390:

Why should I be interested in the sensitivities of elitists? The also do not care about me. ^^

I’m talking as a viewer , a spectator of those high level matches . My personal skill is not important , I could be the worst player ever but it’s not about that . If you want to be esport , I assume that one of your goal is to make the most possible players watch your game . But what about people who just never see their classes represented . The only time I saw a necro in WTS final , he was downstate food , and everyone know he was without doubt one of the best in game . When I look at those matches , I expect to see people who are indeed way better than me play the class I main way better than I will never be able to play it . What if I’m not interested in thief gameplay or whatever ? kitten myself ? . In big games like FIFA ( :v ) , some teams are designed to be better than others because of some real lifes fact . If you want to play a kittenty team , the game tells you clearly that this team is weaker X or Y team . But in gw2 Anet promoted the viability of all classes , which is a big lie . Necro is garbage in pvp and pve just for one example . I know it’s a mmo , it’s hard to balance blablabla . But don’t promise thing you can’t give . Make an official announce like " If you play ranger or necro , accept to be weaker and don’t ask for changes " , then the message will be clear . Thank you

This is really serious . Anet could erase necro and ranger from the game . The High level pvp scene would barely notice . I don’t want to argue about what thoses classes miss for be part of the meta . They was for 6 months when Anet gave them powerful passive effects – You know , these thing who makes classes good and skillful at this game * cough cough* . But hey , you will tell me Necro is in a better spot than before now ! Thank you to the wonderful passive anet added to the class. Anyway how can something can be ignored for so long ? How about people who really loves their classes who are not fotm rerollers ? As far I know this game has 8 classes , but there is still class stacking in tournaments etc , and it’s effective . I guess it"s normal . If necro and ranger are inexistant in the competitive scene , it must be Anet’s wishes since there is nothing done about this for 3 years . I just want to understand . Some classes are bleeding seriously , and are underplayed . No matter the class you love , if you put the effort and reach the highest skill with that classe , you should be viable in the competitive scene .This is just unfair that no matter how much a necro can be skilled , he will still be a weight for his team because others classes are just better . I don’t know ranger’s issues but I just talk about what I see . And I see no rangers or necro in the famous " high end pvp " . It’s pretty sad

PS : kitten english is kitten

Liewec.2896:

its going to be like the first week of release again, where everyone is playing fun weird, wacky builds trying to find something amazing
i look forward to it!

we need changes like these a lot more often!

Don’t be so hyped , the new meta builds will shine in less than 2 days .

Ravenmoon.5318:

Why people hate necros?

….

Necro downstate damage. Hands down the worst downstate of all 8 classes. Closely followed by ranger.

Also necro sustain is quite high, IF you play something other than berserker, so crying about it makes 0 sense.

Typically the guy who knows nothing about the class lmao . Go play something other than zerker glass canon nec atm for show how good you are in this meta . Go for a tanky spec and be a big green walking hp bag doing no damage , with no stab . People complaning about downstate are soo dumb , yes it is OP , but just imagine how worse the state of the class would be without this . Don’t talk if don’t know kitten about the class and his problems

Thief is in the meta since launch . But you can come with as much arguments as you can , thieves will allways act like the poor underpowered class who is nerfed with no justification since launch . According to them , they are all sooo good that they just adapt to all nerf , all people who complains just need to l2p .

Well the only problem i got with that class is stealth stacking and headshot . The 2sec reveal when you go out in stealth was one of the best bug who had ever happened in this game , they just had to fix it in shadow refuge and it was perfect . Headshot must have his initiative cost increased , Shadow rejunevation need to be changed , it promotes passive playstyle . Anyway it’s been the same complains for 3 years , Anet just don’t care , just look how SA is buffed in hot .

flow.6043:

Except your opponent if they don’t want to fight you with full life force.

No it don’t block you, he can just ask for it .

LF restrictions and banned traits are KOTH’s rules . The thread is about WvW . I don’t know for you butas far I know there is no official rules in WvW . People are running PU , SA and go on all over the place . The only thing i remember so far is that you have to bow . I allways keep my life force at 25/30% for duel because I’ve got the reflex now .
But I will not throw the rock to someone who starts with 100% . There is no rules against that .
You guys keep talking about what is fair or not when I simply don’t talk about this . Yes I know and i think 100% is faceroll . But nothing in the game block you for doing that . Especially in WvW . If the game allow you to do it , if you don’t want to, it’s your choice
.
I simply stated " play to win " then everyone came with " the point of dueling " and unspoken rules . Well theses are your rules . Maybe you said I am not making sense because I respect thoses rules, apply them to myself , then critizise them ?
I bow before duel , I start every duel with 25% lf , I don’t use +120 cd elites and don’t use “banned” traits . But if someone dot it , I will not try to stop him . He just plays the game and use the game’s mechanics .

Bhawb.7408:

If you need to learn how to fight with 100% LF then you need to learn how to play Necro. There is no reason to start a duel with 100% LF, if those are the kinds of “duels” you want you might as well roam and kill underlevels.

Do you realise when I said " If you want to get better you have to duel a necro in full life force " the necro is not supposed to be you right . My english may be terrible but I never said " If you want to get better AS a necro you have to fight with full life force "

I said also " on the necro side , it’s not because i said you should start with as much as you can and play to win that I don’t think you must not learn how to fight with low or any life force " .
Geez do you even read ?

If it’s because of english mistakes then I apologize , but wow , you guys really don’t get it

Aktium.9506:

moi.4398:

When you are talking about duel you are talking about something who is not in guild wars 2 . There is no duel game mode in this game . 1v1 happens , not " duel " . Duel means nothing in this game .

Why does it have to be an official game mode to matter? GvG’s and dungeon speedruns aren’t official ways to play the game either but they still matter.

Not in the eyes of Anet bro . I don’t want you to think that " I don’t care about thoses " or anything . I like all the things you listed . But i think GvG and speedruns are far more popular than duels .

flow.6043:

moi.4398:

We have different opinions , but I think " duel " is just something who is really hypocrite.

The irony here is that throughout your entire post you’ve actually argued that you’re dueling for practice, but you should also try to win at all cost…?

This really sums it up, there’s not much more to say on the matter:

EFWinters.5421:

100% Life Force should be an automatic win against anything pretty much, at which point you should probably ask yourself not if it’s fair, but why you are dueling in the first place?

• You won’t get respect for winning, just like someone who runs Moa or precasts traps on a ranger.

• You aren’t really practicing anything since the duel will be a faceroll.

If you are fine with winning unquestionably for the sake of winning, albeit with questionable means, then go ahead and do it. But I see no real reason for it. As a lot of people have mentioned having around 20-50% LF is deemed fair by most people and winning with that would garner a lot of more respect from your opponents.

Read my previous post please … I said black on white that you MUST learn how to fight no matter how much LF you have . Don’t quote just what you want to read please . I have the feeling you guys don’t understand what i’m trying to say . It’s not about faceroll people with 100% or not . If you really want to know what is my opinion about how many % of lf I need in order to not be handicaped in 1v1 ? I say 25% . It doesn’t change the fact I still think you should start with whatever YOU want

Aktium.9506:

moi.4398:

you have to learn how to fight X opponent in any situations

something you do in scrims with teams and stuff where the environment is actually the kind that you will be fighting in when you’re playing in tournaments and the utmost goal is to win the match.

Or it’s just play the game ? :v
When you are talking about duel you are talking about something who is not in guild wars 2 . There is no duel game mode in this game . 1v1 happens , not " duel " . Duel means nothing in this game .
Well , when I answered in this thread it was just about start with as much life force as you can . I don’t want to argue more on this because people have a billion differents opinions about " duel " simply because arena net never stated anything about this . If tomorrow there is a patch where LF is automatically filled to 50% ooc what will you do ?
Anyway if the game allow you to use something , you should use it . The game makes the rules , not you . At the end you will just keep duel with your friend with your rules and i’ll keep my business also . This discussion has no end . Have fun in game

What you are describing is a good atmosphere between 2 or a group of people who just want to improve . And it’s a good thing . But you do that with your homies / friends . In WvW ( Obsidian Sanctum ) or in PVP ( King of the hill ) , most of people are here for win against people and fill their ego . That’s a reality .
" Point of a duel is to test your 1v1 ability , and get better as a player " . True and false . Duel make you indeed a better player , make you improve your mechanical skill , and learn you how to deal with others class . Yes . But if you want to get " better as a player as you said " you have to learn how to fight X opponent in any situations . Not just " that " situation where he plays with restrictions on his build or utilities etc . That’s why I think thoses kind of life force rules and others things are pretty ridiculous . If you want to get better you have to duel a necro in full life force ( if it’s his % when you engage him ) , you have to learn the best way to deal with it , you have to know how to manage the fight if not all your utilities are ready , it’s just practice for when you are in this situation . On the necro side , it’s not because i said you should start with as much as you can and play to win that I don’t think you must not learn how to fight with low or any life force . It’s for both sides .
We have different opinions , but I think " duel " is just something who is really hypocrite . People love to ask you to wait for their cooldown ( I have nothing wrong with that ) but during all this time there is nothing who block me for fill my DS.
What you said Bhawb is true and I agree with you on this point , but thoses " rules " people are using make your point invalid from my Pov . Duel is a good concept , but they should represent the more possible real fights situations if your main goal is to improve .

If the point of a duel is not to win what is it ? If people ask you to drain it before the fight it’s obviously because they want to deal with you more easily , they know how you can be a threat with 100% . Duels in gw2 have no rules . Duel is not a game mode , ther is nothing official . Btw i’m a huge fan of king of the hill and respect the DS limitation like everyone else . But my opinion is still the same . Sorry but duel is never fair , unless it"s a mirror build/class duel , there will allways be someone who has an advantage , because of traits / class etc etc .
It’s anet job to balance things for make them " fair " like you say , not people to handicap themselves .

Duel is not a game mode , duel has no rules , people make them . There is nothing official . In tpvp when you will meet that necro with full life force earned from previous kill you will not ask him to drain it .

Start with as much as you can , play to win . There is no such official rules about this .

My point was that most of the time you have few endurance left when you finally close the gap and PBS will hit you no matter what . The thread is just about dodge and I said " Yes it’s easy to dodge if you really take care of it " .
Anyway any good ranger will count dodges before use it

Nothing counters a thief in open world . They have bad match-up of course , but the option to escape will allways be here and because of that you can’t talk about counters . Duel in restricted area is an other story . If you are against a thief in WvW , the end of the fight depends of him .

It’s easy to dodge if you really take care of it The thing is most of the time the ranger already pew pew-ed you from 1500 range and you had to burn somes dodges

Nerf necros , nerf lich , nerf downstate , nerf chill of death , nerf deathshroud . This class is ruining balance atm . All teams stack necros and kitten the kitten out of everyone in ESL / WTS and go on . This class is present in all top teams and overused is every aspect of the game . Nerf it . Anet pls

Terrormancer is weak in this meta . Shoutbow nullify your damage and make you useless in team fights . You are still a big threat in 1v1 but the meta specs and classes can rotate faster than you can kill your opponent 1v1 . Let’s not forget you will certainly lose the point in the 1v1 because terrormancer requires good kite . It’s totally normal that you feel weak , because you are , it’s not only terromancer , pure condi builds have no place in this meta

ronpierce.2760:

On the flip side, I often feel like Necromancers are the most realistic community. I don’t support moving away from that. It’s the reason I love most Necros and I stay away from thieves and Engineers. :P

Necromancers are indeed the most realistic . Give thieves an "I win " mechanic and they will tell you they need it because they are a squishy with no stab . This is the same for guardians and meditations , Engineer and IP etc , Ranger with Longbow + Read the wind , Shoutbows , Elementalist and Water Attunement + Arcana and go on . We are the only one who are screaming for the nerf of our class . We have been meta for 2-3 months in 3 years of game . I don’t know if Reaper is gonna be , but if it is , Necro community must not be one of these peoples screaming for nerfs . People are anticipating reapers bags simply because they are used that the necro is the easy kill / easy target / punching bag and don’t want that rule gone . In minds of people , necro is not and will never be powerful again since dhummfire era . It’s not about if nerfs are needed or not . It’s about defend our class with no objectivity and we should take examples on the thief community for this . They are meta since the start of the game and still if you come with the propositions of justified nerfs they will tell you to L2P and act like victims , and i respect them for that . Let’s not be masochist with our main class .

Yeah my english is terrible

Clicking and no pace
Old same Shadows arts build
Awful opponent
Pain to watch

Rising Dusk.2408:

I know I’m not the forum specialist for Necromancers, but I don’t think this has seen visibility with Anet yet so I’ll be putting it in my next near-term report to them to try to get some traction on it going. I’ll test it when I get home first to confirm, but thanks for bringing this issue up!

Thank you

Indirect nerf to WvW condition necro and skill like Life transfer stop if you run out of DS while casting . Another step backward

Edit of the title

It’s not about the perplexity itself , It still works on daze . As Balekai said maybe ANET reverted it back to a non-interrupt AND because of this the synergy between fear and perplex is broke .

Oh my god guys , i know what i’m talking about , fear works , terror works , but the game don’t count it as interrupt anymore , the best test you can do is to try with a perplexity set and interrupt something really obvious ( ettin in queensdale , heal of veteran guard in wvw , or whatever ) it doesn’t count as interrupt anymore , at least for me .

Wow , please … It’s that hard to go ingame and try against an obvious animation ? Fear don’t interrupt anymore.

No , doom don’t interrupt anymore , nothing appears on the screen and if you are using perplexity you will not get the 5 stacks of confusion . Try it in game

Anyone have the same issue ?

I like to be unique . Necro are asking for leaps , better stability etc . But when you are thinking about it , with all that added , you have the most broken class in the game lel .
The only thing we need is some love to axe and a better synergy between bloodmagic and DS because these are clearly underpowered and has near to 0 use .

On topic ; necro have a " oh crap " button and it’s F1 . Facetank full shatter combo ? No problem
However , in PVE , yeah I think necro is the highest risk class profession hands down because same full DS will NOT save you from one-shot bosse’s mechanic and similar stuffs and you may not have enough dodge because of no vigor ( can be paintful in CoE for example )

zapv.8051:

moi.4398:

Depend of the situation but overall no .
For example it’s the highest risk class in an outnumbered situation for obvious reason , kill or be killed …
Don’t have escape don’t mean you are a high risk class , necro is the best damage sponge in the game .

Isn’t that kind of the definition of high risk? kill or be killed?

All classes have a different % of chance to get killed in a specific situation ( depend of cooldowns and plenty of others factors ).

Ofc , by logic the class with the less possibility to escape and who must 90% of the time fight to death could be considered as the highest risk class . But when I’m tpvping , sometimes my thief die where my necro will not and sometimes my necro die where my thief could survive .

As I said , it depends of the situation IMO .

Depend of the situation but overall no .
For example it’s the highest risk class in an outnumbered situation for obvious reason , kill or be killed …
Don’t have escape don’t mean you are a high risk class , necro is the best damage sponge in the game .

Still getting it in WvW .

PU is good and balanced now . No more perma prot / regen and aegis stacking if you was lucky .

Hardcounter ? yes .
Solution : Shortbow him to the death with good kite and well time dodges . Take melee only when you go for a " yolo burst " when he’s low . I play d/p trickery and shortbow is the main issue . If you ever met one in tpvp , don’t engage him 1v1 , same if you are able to win , you will take way too much time , go create an outnumbered situation with your awesome mobility on an other place .

Cynz.9437:

Anubis.7058:

Hp doesnt mean jack kitten if you can just never get hit or reset on demand (which is allowed by mobility or stealth thus every other profession has options for it).

Every profession has heals.

No, they would actually still need to get buffed even if they got evade moves, thief has stealth, immunity to chill and cripple and a average 3 combat ports/ blinks pre 10 seconds. Not that im suggesting it since it would go against the initial and sale based promotion of necromancers as the “facetank and steal back the hp” class.

Warriors – block, mobility, vigor, evade moves (your argument is invalid in terms of stats).

Condis get cleansed, hard cc can only be stun broken or stability stopped, not a argument. But it does bring up lacking stability for a non evasion profession (in contrast to mesmers or thieves which have more than enough evades and blocks on under 10s cooldowns to be functionally only skill capped in terms of cc mitigation.

Elites were never mentioned in the post, they are above average (not best, but no bad one except for some bugs, but stuff like plague bugging and not applying its type if stripped and then launched till you get hit again or lich auto attack not being remembered are as said bugs and minor). Tho in all fairness, new guard tomes, all engie elites and all mesmer elites are far stronger on average use (compare/contrast, being immune to 5 people too stupid to get out of 600 range and plain chopping off 80% HP from 5 people on 1400 range while ccing them with mortar, which is by far the weakest engie elite).

P.S. Its not skill which is keeping you alive in WvWvW, its the GWE part of GWEN.

- stealth doesn’t make you invincible, evades usually come at relative high costs and given to classes that otherwise would die in 1-2 hits (necro isn#t one of them)
- HP actually does mean something, it affects amount of healing you get and how many hits you can take… 1 good backstab with fire/air procs would instagib a thief or ele, but would bring necro to 50-30% HP
- necro has life steal, not every profession has it to that extend
- thieves don’t have immunity to chills and cripple, that is plain lie and disinformation… cripple and chills actually screw thieves by a lot starting with crippled gap closers and inablity to get out of aoe
- why would necros get buffed? thief that is buildt around evades doesn’t really have much acess to stealth besides refuge and maybe cnd which they almost never use due to initiative consumtion
- 3 combat ports and blinks pre 10 sec? what build are we talking about here
- warriors have evades? that’s new…. if you mean endure pain, that doesn’t actually stop dmg, at least not condi… also warrior built for moblity has little survival actually or does 0 dmg
- condis also get applied more frequently and at much cheaper costs than condi cleanses… not sure what you are trying to say about CC…

lorndarken.3702:

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

classes are not balanced around 1v1…

Please man , don’t say necro has lifesteal . It’s so …. hmm .. I mean … Link me one vampire necro build viable in the meta right now ( please no MM <3 ) Pls do ; -; . I swear i’ll use it !

Warrior talking about how passives is bad for the game . It’s called irony

The only problem with necros atm is nightmare rune , which is not a necro thing, it just synergize well with terror . Learn to deal with reaper protection seriously , and you’re a warrior … god , zerker stance b4 cc him and GG , the trait just became useless .

Oh kitten , I can’t do my hammer combo in peace , nerf the only protection they got against CC on a 60 sec cooldown !!! Nah , seriously …

It’s funny how necro didn’t receive any significant buff since dumbfire nerf but slowly come back in people’s mind because all the others OP stuff of warriors / teefs etc are toned down . How it is to be balanced huh ?

Necro got buffed every patch by relativity because all the dumb kittens start to finally be balanced . The class is really fine same after dumbfire nerf , it couldn"t really pierce because others classes were too strong , not because the class itself was weak

Necro is not OP , it’s really balanced atm . I agree with you on one point though . Terrormancer is one of the best 1v1 spec in the game , mb the best if you " ban SA thief "

PS : My english is really really bad i know , but i hope you can understand my point .

No more faceroll with FGS , bad day huh ?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Dear lord, how about they nerf necro passive fears instead?

Warrior has nerfs coming; they haven’t even -dropped-.

I’m totally for a nerf to nightmare rune and reaper protection if hard counters like berserker stance / diamon skin don’t exist

Zord.6130:

moi.4398:

With Steb’s logic , PERSONAL skill is juged in TEAM fight lol . Nice one

It’s totally true.
Being a good dueler does not mean that you are a good player, too. Unless we consider only dueling of course.
Conquest mode has a lot of things that one player has to take into account, be it rotations, communication, decision making and fighting ability.
The only thing that is measured in a 1v1 is the fighting ability(against ONE opponent). Other things are way more important than fighting ability.
As a thief, you can always best an enemy thief in a set up 1v1, but if he outsmarts you and manages to get the jump on you during a Conquest game, he will be more useful to the team than you.

Take Sizer: he is not the BEST dueler, but he is definitely the best thief player around.
Not saying that 1v1 are meaningless – a good player will be good at dueling, but it’s not everything, and it’s only a fraction of the “personal skill” in a Conquest game.

I’m maybe just from old gen when pvp was players versus players , not players versus points .
I will not argue more about this . Each one their own . I’m done here.

On topic : Init change AND rework of the skill are too much .

With Steb’s logic , PERSONAL skill is juged in TEAM fight lol . Nice one

Why do you guys are talking about nerf acrobatics lol . Acro is what is it for almost 2 years , then suddenly BOOM it’s OP ? Feline grace and Power of inertia never changed . So why do you want to nerf them now ? .

I will not arg about who is harder between d/p and s/d but s/d is a lot more safer than d/p to play . Please don’t take as reference d/p shadows arts BS . D/P trickery may be a bit over the top because of BP atm but its really more Yolo than s/d acro . Keep in mind d/p trick don’t use any of the thief’s defensive tree . Because imo trickery is not what we call a defensive tree