Guild Wars 2

Try roaming for a night and then tell me how much you still like this change.

Sly.9518:

The people that have seen the change are afk leechers, just Roaming it is so easy to maintain T6 participation without even trying since almost everything gives Participation, now players even know how much Participation time is given per objective/kill.

This change only makes it so players can’t afk leech in keeps and spawn, now they actually have to participate to get rewards.

This is coming from someone that Solo roams on Thief, Rev and Fa Ele, so far it has not changed my Roaming habits and I get full T6 Participation within 10-20 minutes of Logging into WvW.

You don’t have ktrain or blob.

You’re right, you don’t have to zerg right now, you just can’t sit in a T1 tower and seige it and babysit it, ya know, scout your tower. Some of those leechers you speak of are our former scouts that were participating in wvw the way it was BEFORE pips, even after pips, it’s still participating, just not in Anet’s eyes.

So while your playstyle hasn’t been affected YET, understand that some peoples have, and the things that used to bring them joy are now by and large ignored for the almighty pip.

Since wvw is rewards based now, its just a matter of time before all the old burns though, so be careful who you call a leech.

The outnumbered thing really isnt that bad, though I think the timer should be half a tick instead of a full tick.

The participation issue is just… sigh. While I understand some timers, its just pushes a 100% offensive karma train policy that punish the dirty work of WvW which has already been brushed aside over the years. The worst part is that this combined with insanely strong T3 objectives and defensive siege cause extreme frustration to those of us that run small scale – we can no longer spend time trying to slowly drain objectives because we’re apparently not participating in WvW. Our participation hangs on the enemy gracefully allowing us to get some participation.

Sarge.9730:

I haven’t even noticed the changes as a player actually playing WvW.

Just because you haven’t doesn’t mean others don’t.

Yes, I’ll be the one to say it.

Far from me to defend pip AFK farmers, but these changes do more damage than good. Revert the Outnumered and Decay changes and think of better solutions.

Lets not forget to actually test them either before annoying players with band-aid fixes on live servers.

I know the devs are trying and respect to them for doing so, but these just aren’t the best solutions.

Ah a fine gentleman/gentlewoman asking a kind question. Sorry for my short sarcasm, I have a severe muscle-ache and pumped up with painkillers. I will cut it short;

-If this pip system was made to revitalize dying wvw, then it is irrational to shift all pve population to EoTM.

-If the reason was not related to boost wvw, then why was it made?

ps: There are also different discussions about increased population and blobbing problems but that is irrelevant.

Honestly if you do that ALL the pvers that just joined wvw and getting into it will move to eotm again since its an easy cap karma train all day long where they dont have to worry about getting kicked out of a squad for being this or that.

Strider Pj.2193:

Zok.4956:

Well, if EOTM is not WvW then being/playing there should never ever increased WvW ranks in the first place.

WvW rank should only (now, in the future and in the past) be gained in WvW.

But as long as you can (and could) gain WvW rank in EOTM, EOTM is part of WvW, regardless of what some devs say to justify their decisions and the inconsistent system.

It’s the EDGE of The Mists. Not the mists. So, it is NOT WORLD vs WORLD. It MAY be realm vs realm, but not world (i.e. Server) vs world. So.. no pips.

I would definitely support the removal of WvW rank gain from there.

Edge of the Mists is still within the mists. Cause edge. Get it? Its still within. Even better, ever opened your map? you’ll see that it is located on top left side of the map next to the other borderlands. Game play is also the same. So it IS WvW rather you like it or not. It’s just that players turned it into a karma farm festival / they use it to level up characters. Originally it was suppose to be a solution for overflow when your borders had queue’s.

Going back ontopic, I do agree with the majority here. Seeing EOTM’s current state, i do not think it would be healthy for the game mode if that gets the same reward structure as WvW itself.

Perhaps a better solution would be to actually undo the linking of the servers. This would drop the queue’s and there for people would have non or less waiting time to actually enter WvW. On the other hand this might cause problem in low(er) populated servers. How ever if we look at how many people play WvW since the patch, this shouldn’t must be a problem. Considering more people are willing to join and tag up. Sure you still have to deal with new players and all. But that is just a matter of time and going through that learning curve. But i suppose that is a bit off topic and better to create a new post about it. More about that here

Well, if EOTM is not WvW then being/playing there should never ever increased WvW ranks in the first place.

WvW rank should only (now, in the future and in the past) be gained in WvW.

But as long as you can (and could) gain WvW rank in EOTM, EOTM is part of WvW, regardless of what some devs say to justify their decisions and the inconsistent system.

fredley.2354:

Sure, why not but make it so the chests don’t award claim tickets.

Good idea!!

Sure, why not but make it so the chests don’t award claim tickets. While were at it make it a separate system so players can’t map hop to get the last tick for chests.

I think you could build up participation and earn 1 pip max.

I think EOTM should have pips, but obviously at a much slower rate (and less pips) than normal WvW maps.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Eotm should definitely have the pip system. eotm was created to give players the same rewards as wvw all while being a map that never gets a full que of players, unlike wvw. By not giving the same rewards it de-insentivises play in eotm over wvw. It also defeats the purpose of its original implementation.

I pretty much summed it up in the other thread.

Um no? Eotm is basically a “lounge” while w8ing to get into actual WvW. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not supposed to lure people in with rewards or anything and definately not prioritized over actual WvW maps. U can farm ranks and karma there but that’s it and that’s all it should be.

Rewards are part of WvW and Eotm is not actual WvW, just a random map people stay on until they enter an actual WvW map.

It’s like saying that unranked pvp should have the same rewards as ranked or automated tournaments. Unranked is there so people can fool around while w8ing for next pvp season.

Wont that just mean that all these new pvers will just go to eotm again ? I mean most people will like it,i don’t.I like to see these new faces and hoping lotta of them will actively keep on playing wvw and dont move off when they have the reward they wanted.

I agree but at a reduced rate. Make it so you get 1 pip every tick if you are contributing. Nothing excessive but at least you’re earning towards that tier 4 reward while you wait hours for a queue to go through. Maybe earn 3 at the conclusion of a match is over or something if you’ve had a certain amount of contribution. But it should not be equal to what the other maps give.

Or I’d just appreciate it if the queue was account wide as long as you don’t exit character select. I don’t do most of my pve stuff on the same toons I wvw generally. Would also just be nice to switch around if needed without losing the queue.

MomentofWeakness.1246:

Well that’s your assumption, I’d venture the data would only partially agree.

At least on EU there are whole communities dedicated to bandwagoning, looking for ez fights on servers that are going up the ladder. My assumption is that it works both ways.

Besides, Gandara is literally the most overpopulated server at the moment, AND it is linked for some reason. Give it time and the problem will resolve itself, no need to repeat the same mistake twice and cripple WvW by reviving EoTM.

kroter.1326:

MomentofWeakness.1246:

If removing it isn’t feesable then Edge of the Mists should only be traveled to when the regular 4 WvW maps are all full.

Unavoidable queues are great way to reduce server stacking and spread population across the rest of the servers. Will also diversify matchups.

Well that’s your assumption, I’d venture the data would only partially agree. Some people would transfer but others would view the cost to transfer as tedious socially and economically. These people may just not play the game mode at all instead of transferring. In the end, this would only hurt WvW from a macro perspective.

kroter.1326:

EoTM isn’t WvW, lacks many features of WvW, hence should not have WvW rewards. The sheer existence of EoTM is bad for WvW.

FYI, there are servers on EU with no queues during primetime and outnumbered buff all day long. Roamer paradise. Cheap transfer included.

Edge of the Mists was created to be an instanced based WvW map for population overflows. I agree though, I’d rather it not exist at all since it just takes people out of the game mode (although this was a bigger problem in the past). If removing it isn’t feesable then Edge of the Mists should only be traveled to when the regular 4 WvW maps are all full.

EoTM isn’t WvW, lacks many features of WvW, hence should not have WvW rewards. The sheer existence of EoTM is bad for WvW.

FYI, there are servers on EU with no queues during primetime and outnumbered buff all day long. Roamer paradise. Cheap transfer included.

Edge of the Mists ruined WvW the first time when it was given all the same rewards as the regular maps and in some cases, like badges, better reward opportunities. Edge of the Mists should be secondary to the main 4 WvW maps. If you give Edge of the Mists the same incentives as the regular maps (which they did in the past), then no one will feel motivated to participate on the regular maps. If Arenanet has learned their lesson with Edge of the Mists then they won’t make Edge of the Mists compete with the main 4 maps. Queuing up still gives you the opportunity to work on other things in the game while you wait, perhaps you could work on PvE content while you’re in queue.

90% ppl are in the queues waiting 1-3h to get in their borders.

Give Pips generation in Eotm and queues will be gone.

This is bad business for wvw daily roamers and ppl who played this mode for 5 years. It will actually make me never que wvw again + expansion is near don’t make ppl quit this game.

An Unhappy customer (and not alone).

Capping tickets to 175 = mistake, common cause of irritation among hard core WvWvWers.

Ticket requirements for the armor etc. is way too much.

It requires about 20 h of active play with a good server to get 175 tickets. Thus you need at least 2 weeks and 40 h to get 350 tickets, which is enough to get an exotic weapon or exotic chest armor. Exotic!!! You can get much better looking exotic skin in few hours of pve.

Arenanet is still treating WvWvW inferior compared to pve.

@kash: he’s calling you out for saying you got something like 120 outnumbered ticks out of 168. and from my experiences that does seem a little fishy. as in, not casually playing, or playing more than youre stating, or perhaps having ground out more than a silver rank and still calling yourself casual, or even something else. idk and idk you, but his math seems reasonable and hitting up outnumbered maps constantly is anything but casual.

kash.9213:

Turk.5460:

Ehhhh, I think you’re either full of dookie, or you’re outnumbered for a staggering majority of your WvW time, which is probably not the case on NSP.

Lets say you’re silver, and NSP is ticking in first place for your entire WvW playtime:

2hours a day= 24 pip ticks per day.
24 pip ticks at silver in 1st place = 120 pips per day.
120 pips per day at 7 days = 840 pips per week.

1450 pips required to get all 175 tickets per week.

Well, diamond reset and I’m not getting tickets anymore and I know other people knocked theirs out early just doing stuff. If you want to do maths and kitten go ahead, don’t know what we’re arguing about.

Trinnitty.8256:

unless your getting outmanned buff per tick it takes 3-4 hours a day not couple hours per day… average tick of 5 pips.

I probably cranked out a good stretch on the weekend, and I do have to hit up the outmanned maps, can’t get into EB anymore.

Yeah, I did do the math. And was very generous with it. Its incredibly unlikely that you will obtain ticket cap at 2 hours a day, even more so when you say that 2 hours wasn’t all in WvW, partially doing crafting dailies and such. I don’t doubt that you have reached cap, I just think you are playing for longer per day than you might remember…

Turk.5460:

Ehhhh, I think you’re either full of dookie, or you’re outnumbered for a staggering majority of your WvW time, which is probably not the case on NSP.

Lets say you’re silver, and NSP is ticking in first place for your entire WvW playtime:

2hours a day= 24 pip ticks per day.
24 pip ticks at silver in 1st place = 120 pips per day.
120 pips per day at 7 days = 840 pips per week.

1450 pips required to get all 175 tickets per week.

Well, diamond reset and I’m not getting tickets anymore and I know other people knocked theirs out early just doing stuff. If you want to do maths and kitten go ahead, don’t know what we’re arguing about.

Trinnitty.8256:

unless your getting outmanned buff per tick it takes 3-4 hours a day not couple hours per day… average tick of 5 pips.

I probably cranked out a good stretch on the weekend, and I do have to hit up the outmanned maps, can’t get into EB anymore.

unless your getting outmanned buff per tick it takes 3-4 hours a day not couple hours per day… average tick of 5 pips.

Running with a squad that has a decent commander can be like night and day if you are on TS or not. There are timing based tactics that you CANNOT be part of if you cannot hear the commander. Coordination of the squad’s skills and location cannot be inferred or communicated in chat.

Say for instance the commander wants to feint left and then hit for real to the right. Everyone not in TS hits left and then dies as those in TS hit right. All the ‘pugs’ die and rally the enemy, making the rest of the squad have a much harder time. If the enemy has a decent commander with everyone in TS, you will lose to them every battle. Watched it happen countless times just this weekend. This is why some commanders run tagless, to prevent the ‘casuals’ from following them.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

“Going back to TS, … it can be a little frustrating when you don’t get a group, but it should not deter you from playing.”

A little frustrating? When you want to play in a not-full squad, being booted is more than frustrating – it’s humiliating, demoralizing, isolating, maddening – worse than last guy picked on a team. Having a disability I fully understand what it is to get picked on, but to endorse and rationalize this behavior with reasonable articulateness doesn’t make it any less abusive.

“When I first started to WvW way back whenever I had no idea what was going on because I didn’t know TS was being used, but I followed commanders whether they wanted me there or not. I asked questions about what to do and generally had a good time. "

When I started beta WvW and ever since, no one used TS and we all did fine – we won tournaments (2 full zergs vs. our zerg in our keep) and no TS cept a few players. I understand TS is helpful – but it should never be an exclusionary tool – esp when banishing a player to run beside a non-full squad w/o benefit of protections is inane and nonsensical. Doesn’t cmdr want benefits of whatever I bring to the table? Don’t they want me to stay alive and help out? Banishing me to the zerg hinterlands to survive on my own seems counter-productive to the zerg/server goal. I’ve yet to hear good reason as to why TS should be (or if an elitist cmdr desires it) …. mandatory!

“I have known commanders for remembering names and allowing access into groups despite not being in TS because they have shown they can hold their own and can provide without a voice communication system.”

Oh wow, only wish I was good enough to prove my merit and get in a squad. If only I was a better player at WvW (or GW which I’ve been playing since gw1 beta). So wistful. I promise to try harder. Gimme a break. 10 skills, run, hit door, hit/kill players, heal, move, build, supply up, go. Hard stuff. After 5 yrs of WvW 3 x a week, I got it. No one criticized my play; it wasn’t why I was booted. I hope I find a cmdr who sees the good in me, and allows me into their not-full squad, tho I must admit, I don’t think I’ll be able to “provide” anything w/o TS.

“So say you are not in TS or squad … ; a cmdr might ask you to tank up even tho commander’s own group is a bit more glassy. It’s not that cmdrs don’t want to help.”

If a cmdr boots me, I will do nothing to help him out. Makes for bad blood. Makes me hate the game; Anet allows it and silently endorses it. If a cmdr wants my help, and my heals/skills/kills, he needs to not exclude me from his precious non-full squad.

“They do not care that you are hearing impaired.”

Nice. They must all be proud. Pick on the disabled, elderly, stupid, w/e. It’s a casual game. It should be played by all to the best of ability within level of desire/ commitment to play. I want to play. I give my all. Yah, kitten me, off to the curb I go.

“As harsh as that may sound commanders use squads and TS as a way of organization.
If there is no communication the group falls short of what it can do.”

It is harsh. You might want to rethink your priorities. You’ve just admitted a person trying to play a game that doesn’t advertise it requires TS to play certain game modes as intended gets to face a “harsh” reality of: we don’t want you, go away because your disability/inability to access TS makes you unwanted. It’s not the harshness of your words that’s offensive or cruel, it’s the harshness of your endorsement of prejudicial, unkind, and abusive behavior.

You’re taking what this person said waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too personal (equating usefulness to joining Teamspeak). If you don’t like what the person said just maintain your dissenting point of view and try to enjoy the game. If you don’t want to join Teamspeak then don’t. After all, you bought your own copy of the game, just play WvW the way you want to. Other people cannot control whether or not you join Teamspeak. Why are you letting one persons opinion bother you so much?

The only thing I really care about is that the other people in my squad are in TS.

I do feel that other major squads, such as guild groups or anyone of say 20+ size should also be in TS for easy communication. It’s a night and day difference to have 2 groups attacking an enemy with co-ordination on pushes. For example, I’m going left, you right; I’m going over the wall, you through the gate; I see you coming from the north, I’ll wait here and hide south, then push out; need some help or vice versa. So many things that benefit commanders being able to talk. It’s nice to have, but not totally necessary

But smaller groups? Roamers? Nah. Not that big of a deal.