Guild Wars 2

There is only one criteria for determining the value of an entertainment product.

Is it worth it to you?

That can be expressed in a number of ways:
Is it fun for you.
Do you like it.
Etc.

There is no absolute:
must be at least as large as a different expansion.
Must be at least 25% as large as the base game.
Etc.

I will not be buying the expansion. What has been announced is not worth paying for (to me). I respect that others think otherwise and will buy HoT. I hope they enjoy their purchase.

For those who consider $50 to be too expensive for what is included in HoT….wait. It is all but inevitable that there will be sales and, eventually, a price reduction. Buy it then at a price more in line with your expectations.

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

4 new regions vs 6 base, 124 new quests vs 205 base, going off just monk skills 10 new skills vs 40 base, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_art, 18 new dungeons vs 0 base, 10 heroes vs 0 base. Totally similar to the 15% of the stuff it actually adds in this but it’s more like 50%+ for all of them.

Let’s see. EotN released for $40 and Prophecies released for $50. So that makes EotN 80% (40/50) of the cost of Prophecies. Since you like to to comparisons using only quantities, that means EotN must contains at least 80% of the content of Prophecies.

Maps
Prophecies – 54
EotN – 15

Result: 28% (15/54) – FAIL

Quests
Prophecies – 205
EotN – 124

Result: 60% (124/205) – FAIL

Professions
Prophecies – 6
EotN – 2

Result: 33% (2/6) – FAIL

Armor Sets
Prophecies – 13
EotN – 5

Result: 39% (5/13) – FAIL

Skills
Prophecies – 204
EotN – 150

Result: 74% (150/204) – FAIL

Zones
Base-29
HoT-4
14%

Classes
Base-8
HoT-1
12.5%

Cosmetics
Base-Who the kitten knows 3000+ at least
HoT-60+
2%

Skills
Base-529
HoT-150 most of all only possible to equip with elite equipped and includes all Revenant skills
Not including multi part skills in either
28%

Dungeons
Base-25 dungeon paths, 15 fractals, 9 epic world bosses
HoT-3? 10 man raids
6%

So that’s a great comparison with the expansion you claim added the least content.

See. Expansions don’t ever contain as much content as their core game. Of course this is going solely on quantity which is misleading. All that someone needs to do is determine if the content that they see within the expansion is worth the $50 to them. What other games have or don’t have doesn’t matter. All that matters is what that particular expansion is worth to them.

So while you’re playing the core game, or some other game, I’ll be enjoying all of the content that HoT has to offer including all future living story content which you will not have access to. But don’t worry, you can wait until the next expansion and purchase both for $50 which will come down to $25 each.

Warlock.7136:

Warlock: as I have stated the thread was supposed to be about revenant not having any setable utility skills and thus no build potential as they are all essentialy the same without out this, and the idea of raids using a pvp style join. click on raid you want, get qued for the raid.

Coulter: Because you said this :

“being kicked from a group because you are not the glass cannon meta should not happen and should count as a form of harrasment that is causing players to be excluded from content”

Which is ridiculous, there is nothing mean about that.

Warlock: incorrect. being forced to play zerk or being kicked from groups IS an issue. it is an issue that even anet acknowledged. “when any one build/rune is the only acceptable build/rune that is unacceptable” being kicked from a group for not having “the one acceptable rune/build” is a problem. my suggestion was to use the pvp join style to bypass people being able to kick based on build/rune. another suggestion I had was that this become a reportable offense. this also would solve anet’s acknowledged “zerker only” problem. being told that a suggestion for solving something that they acknowledge as a problem is ridiculous is in fact rude. your opinion matters. my opinion matters. neither is “ridiculous” you keep bringing this up and it keeps getting addressed and yet for some reason your not considered to be trolling this thread. here is an idea. lets stop talking about the community as it is a covo that is going no where slowly. and talk about the thread topics of the revenant having no utility skills and weither an instanced raiding system would be useful.

So people forcing you to play the build they want is bad, but forcing people to play with you is ok?

I’m not a fan of excluding people. I never ask for anything in a LFG except to be 80 and sometime to be experienced when I don’t bring a newby from my guilde. Bring whatever build you want and I’ll play whatever build I want. But that doesn’t mean that people don’t have the right to play with like minded people. Meta zerker players also paid for the game just like you and they can have fun with it the way they want.

Now, we can argue that the game have some problem, like the fact that only a small portion of the gear is view as good, that the LFG could do a better job with requirement, that the person that start the party should be the party leader and not be kicked, that people can be scrub and don’t read the description on both sides, etc

But to force people to play with whoever is not a solution, it just create problem.

Halloween is just a couple of weeks while HoT will be there always. For myself … I will do both. If I tried to do one thing only for hours then I would get bored.

Many people in this forum post have offered their opinions and constructive feedback on what you view in the game to be displeasing and unobtainable. None of those comments has harassed or distastefully lashed out at any of your opinions.

I very much agree with the consensus of people posting here that you yourself are putting up barriers that do not actually exist for the common GW2 player such as restricting yourself to a 2 man group to accomplish all content in the game whether or not it was designed for 2 or 10 people.

I am sad to hear that most of your experiences with the general community in game have been unsatisfying as I have not shared many of those experiences save for a few occasions. In such occasions there is nothing that is demanding me, as a fellow player, to keep myself in that situation which I am not comfortable in. I also do not wish to remain in a team that has either harassed me or another in my group. So I leave, make my own lfg and wait at maximum for 10 minutes before it most likely fills and we go on our way to completing that content.

Which leads me to talk about guilds and the up-coming group content. I have been in multiple guilds since launch, ~13. Many of which were small guilds roughly 9 or so people trying to start something big. A few of them succeeded, but I moved on to find other guilds as I personally did not mesh well. I have also encountered 2 guilds (to remain unnamed) that had demanding requirements to partake in activities. Such as the dreaded 100% rep. I personally made a friend in one such guild that required you be in WvW 100% of the time and I did stay in the guild for awhile. Eventually when it came down to being harassed for not dedicating my life to content I didn’t like, I left.

I am now in a comfortable guild that has no requirements. A come and go, be nice to people and lets do stuff guild. We are 494 members strong with 120 on at peak times. All it took was some searching but it sounds as if you refuse to give people a chance when considering adding people to your guild or partaking in another guild.

On the topic of raids. A.net has stated that they are not for the majority of the player base. They are not distastefully rubbing their hands together in a dark room at the idea of players that cannot access 10 man content because they refuse to interact with the player base. This goes back to the idea that you do not give people or yourself the chance to open up to others and make connections. MMO’s are in the end a social game meant to band people together to complete content.

I am not at all attacking you in this post, I am simply restating what many others have tried to offer as constructive feedback on up coming content as well as my own opinions. I do hope that you find a way to interact and enjoy the game that so many others have found and enjoyed.

As for a general comment to those who have posted in the thread, thank you. This has been the single most constructive and civil thread that shows no out-lash at specific posters. I am truly surprised that upon entering this threads second page it has remained constructive and insightful. It does show the truley helpful people that GW2 has for its community that make us so great and friendly. In the event that this thread does become somewhat hostile, I only see it as a reaction that the OP has refused to acknowledge many peoples opinion and to only restate the same thing in many of his responses.

Do not over-use the word toxic as many people in today’s world use tragic.

It’s actually come down to trying to explain simple basics, the key word is trying because he just isn’t understanding or accepting that it is him putting up the blockade for himself. He is more than capable of achieving a guild hall and using his “extras” that he paid for but he refuses to do so and that somehow is Anet’s or other player’s fault.

It’s almost unbelievable that someone can be so blind to reality, he actually seems to believe this game should change to cater to his unwillingness.

It’s kind of sad actually.

I wouldn’t consider this bickering. It’s more people trying to explain that your way of doing this is in the minority, and that there’s no way A.net can appease everybody. I mean, Just a flesh wound has a good idea—hire people out who’re willing to help take your guild hall with you. Hell, I’ll even do it with you; conditions are entirely on you, and I don’t care how you play.

But as to why A.net offers it? Well. They figured that somebody who’s getting this for the guild decorations is already in a large enough guild/has a plan for taking the guild hall. It’s generally impossible for them to plan for every single contingency without risking intended value/purpose of said content.

Warlock.7136:

ty you have been one of the reasonable people on here. all i was trying to say is that we paid extra for some features otherwise why buy ultimate rather then deluxe. we deserve to use these things. regardless of how we play the game.

Just an FYI… The only ‘feature’ that the Ultimate Edition has over the Deluxe Edition is fifty dollars worth of Gems for an additional twenty-five dollars. If you were only interested in the bonus items, you could have just purchased the Deluxe Edition.

Warlock.7136:

ty you have been one of the reasonable people on here. all i was trying to say is that we paid extra for some features otherwise why buy ultimate rather then deluxe. we deserve to use these things. regardless of how we play the game.

No one who bought HoT deserves any content more than others who bought HoT. No matter which version they bought.

The players who paid $50 are just as entitled to the content as you are, even though you paid $100.

I certainly didn’t suggest you don’t deserve it, you deserve it and it is obtainable that seems to be what you’re not understanding. They shouldn’t change the game for 1 or 2 people who seem unwilling to work with others. As I said you’re entitled to play the game how you choose but there are consequences to those choices. Anet is not preventing you from obtaining a guild hall, you are preventing you from obtaining it.

Anyways, I can see where this is going, you’re not going to accept any answer but the one you want to hear, so best of luck to you and your wife, I hope you figure out a solution to your problem.

Maybe everyone else is not the problem if every interaction you have is negative ? You say including this one, why is that ? Was I rude to you ? Did I fling insults at you ? Did I call you names ?

I really think you should look inwards, there are plenty of helpful nice people in this game and on these forums, i strongly believe that if every interaction you have in this game is negative then it’s probably not healthy for you to play such a game.

No, that is not meant as insulting, you seem like a nice enough person, a little over sensitive imo but still maybe you just need not to take every little thing to heart.

The bottom line is, they said everyone will be able to participate, you are not being left out of that, you are choosing not to participate because you don’t like that it’s not your version of participation. Would it really be that bad to find some like minded people to help you and your wife achieve your guild hall ?

Participate is not the same as accomplish alone. You can participate, get a couple more people to help you, this is participating. It seems you have misinterpreted what they said.

Any guild can achieve a hall just as any player can play all the content available (provided you purchased the xpac) you may need help from other players though. You are limiting yourself, no one else is limiting you, not the players, not Anet, it’s all on you. You are more than entitled to play anyway you like but you need to accept the consequences that come with those decisions.

1) I adore the Revenant. It’s kitten fun. The lack of customizing utilities is a bit annoying at first, but once you start playing one…Well, I miss my revenant already. I feel each legend brings some good stuff to the table and different combos work really great together.

2) Only thing that requires a group is raids. The open world is easy enough to solo or duo (especially since they nerfed the content in BWE3). The entire game does NOT have to be soloable. There needs to be stuff for guilds to do, which thankfully HoT is adding.

3) New map is amazing. And I say this as someone who violently HATES jumping puzzles and the like. It’s really not hard to level masteries for your glider and the mushrooms and it’s a blast running around jumping off things and using your glider. The only thing I do think the new maps could use more of is random dynamic events. Most of the events are long chain events. This is perfectly fine, but a nice random, stand alone event here and there would be nice.

Overall, I’m quite happy with the way HoT is shaping up.

Warlock.7136:

“No one has insulted you in this thread.”

“MMOs are not designed for outliers, and social misfits. Nor should they be. They’re meant to be group content. There is plenty of things for solos to do, but the further along you get the more the focus has to be on group content.”

This is just absurd. Throwback is not a bad thing. It isn’t Mario, and SAB is completely subjective. To me it was the single greatest thing to be added to the game, and it doesn’t even provide a single bit of progression in any aspect of the game. The jumping mushrooms in HoT are just how they felt like presenting the mechanic. There are any number of other things they could have done, and every one of them could be pointed to something else to say, oh that’s where it came from. It’s entirely your opinion and not worth much.

I agree. Games based around giving up large quantities of your time to advance in a computer generated world where you have no face to face interaction with anyone else, are so not designed for social misfits.

so i imagined these posts yes?

Please quote as the loss of the text around it removes context and context is everything. I can’t tell where your post starts and ends since you’re not even quoting.

So where is my content? I’m not a casual or a hardcore. I’m that little sliver in between. I want a decent amount of challenge but I don’t want Nintendo Hard where I have to be absolutely perfect to survive or succeed. I want wiggle room to mess up but I don’t want so much room that I can be a total kitten, fall on my face, and still get rewarded. I want things I might not beat the first time or the fifth time and things I have to drag my butt through to finish but I don’t have 24/7 to devote to becoming ‘the best’ or to grind the best gear in the shortest amount of time or to use charts and numbers to figure out exact damage and tweak my build to exact specifics with complicated weapon switches and skills done in exact order to get max damage.

All I hear is WHINE WHINE WHINE YOU HAVE 98% OF THE GAME, GIVE US 2% like casuals and hardcores are the only types of players who exist. Well they’re not so where’s my %? Where’s the % for a player who regularly beat Teq when it was new and not a cake walk? For someone who hates agony and fractals? I was half hoping raids would appeal to both hardcore and skilled players, not just hardcore gear/skill/trait checks do it perfect or fail. That’s not fun. I’m fine with it existing, don’t think I’m saying to nerf it or change it, but tap dancing Tybalt, shut up about no content for hardcores.

Kidel.2057:

some people will beat this specific raid in yellow gear and with 5 members total.
some other people will simply never beat it in their life.

can’t be helped, the world is different. Raid difficulty is fine atm.

The issue is not with raid difficulty, but with the length of each raid.

The following reasoning is based on the assumption that Anet isn’t lying. Anet said that raid encounters are not puggable. That’s is, to kill the last few bosses, you need to be in a raid guild. A raid guild will raid regularly, or it wouldn’t be called a raid guild. At least, a member in a raid guild is expected to spend 4-5 nights on raiding every week, to remain active in the guild. Each night, he should start to raid at 7pm and stop at 1 or 2 am. He should keep doing this until the entire raid instance is on farm status for the guild. Therefore, you do have to spend at least 30 hours per week on raiding, and more hardcore raid guilds will require you to spend 50+ hours.

Therefore, raid encounters are never about skills, but are about who has the most free time for game play. Of course people who cannot pick up a bucket to feed a cow in game will not be able to do it, but many more do have the skills and are able to learn, but cannot commit 7 hours per night to gaming. When playing wow, I learned that a hardcore friend had to quit gaming entirely, because his doctor said that if he wouldn’t, he would become blind. So, even for people who can commit this much time, it is unhealthy to do so.

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

You say you need dozens of hours. Did you play all the raids? Extraordinary! Enlighten me! What about the ones that do have the necessary time and will to dedicate to raids? Why shouldn’t they get some content? After all, except lvl 50 fractals give me one single example of challenging content is this forsaken game? We must lower ourselves in killing Lupi with no armor just for the sake of a challenge. And even there you attack us! Dungeons are meant to be played this way, and the selling of a dungeon is an exploit.

It’s a false dichotomy. If raids had a difficulty setting (even just “Normal” and "Hardcore), then they could cater to everyone just fine.

I am an uber casual player. I have absolutely no problem with not being able to participate in raids. Raids are there for the people who love raids. They should be able to do their raids, and encourage others to get on board with doing raids, and have loads of fun doing raids, and get Cool Stuff for the effort they put into raids.

Raids are awesome, as long as they are optional; like World Bosses or Dungeons or Fractals or WvW & PvP.

However, if it gets to the point where I am functionally required to participate in raids in order to access general content, or major portions of storyline, then it is an issue.

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

laokoko.7403:

This is ridiculous. Why are Anet catering to 1% of the population.

Hardcore raiding never works. It was shown less than 1% of the people actaully experienced Sunwell pre-wrath, the percentage of people completing it is like 1 in 10,000.

The percentage of people raiding in LOTR online is so tiny, they actually decide to remove it. And just look at Wildstar, it was shown hardcore raiding is a total failure.

Please, Anet, stop listening to the hardcore people. This was the first game designed for casual players. Now players need to grind “ascended armor” for a prerequisite to raiding. And the painful “attunement” process called grinding your mastery and experience before you can even try it.

This is unacceptable! I was kicked out my WoW guild because I can’t devote 50 hours a week to raid. And when I find out about GW2 I thought I’m finally free of this curse! But no, Anet is turning this game into a hardcore raiding game too!

So this is the representative of the casual community? I don’t know what I expected.

This entitlement agenda has to end. And it will end. More than 90% of the game is casual. Give 1-2% of it to the hardcore crowd and BOOOM! Apocalypse, the end of the game is here, it caters to hardcore crowd elite now and other drama. Why should Anet listen to you, hypocrite, and not to others? Why is your opinion a fact? Because this is how you expose it. Give me concrete numbers for your examples. Links, statements, official responses. How do you know the hardcore community is 1%? Stop the parallels with WoW, even if they would copy paste the raids from there it would still be totally different since this game does not have a hard, forced trinity.

You say you need dozens of hours. Did you play all the raids? Extraordinary! Enlighten me! What about the ones that do have the necessary time and will to dedicate to raids? Why shouldn’t they get some content? After all, except lvl 50 fractals give me one single example of challenging content is this forsaken game? We must lower ourselves in killing Lupi with no armor just for the sake of a challenge. And even there you attack us! Dungeons are meant to be played this way, and the selling of a dungeon is an exploit.

If we do the actual content too fast, casuals complain. If we do it alone, they complain. If we want profit on this hard work, casuals complain. If we get raids, casuals complain. If I want to play berserker casuals complain. All of this while over 90% of the game is pure casual. But we destroy the game. We are the problem. We want our corner. Without you. I have the right, as much as you do, to request this.

You fail to remember that the audience of this game is worldwide and not westerners only. Aka not everyone agrees with “everybody is a winner” ideology. You also forget that your same society IRL caters to a certain <2% , praising them like some sort of deities and even an argument against them will ruin your life and label you as X-phobe.

I have the time, the skill, the will, the friends and the need to play raiding-type content. Why shouldn’t Arena-net provide this to me and cater to you 100% in a game that already caters 90%+ to you. The gate of the content is open, get your friends and go in and do it. It’s permanent content. Nothing stops you from doing it. But of course you know that. You hate that a certain part of the community is gaining attention from Arena-net. You hate us. Our fun, our community, our friendships, our skills, our dedication. You hate that we have time that you do not. And then you have the audacity to come here and post as a victim?

Though luck buddy, I live in a different world than yours. My world will not kill my social life if I critique someone, my world does not brainwash me with “everybody is a winner” scenarios. My world does not equal “all pink”. Among many others I learned that if I want something I must work for it. I want the legendary armor. I will do raids. I enjoy them. You don’t? Good, you don’t do it and do not get the rewards. Fair and square. This is not a place for special snowflakes anymore.

I’ve been supporting Anet since 2005. I know what they can do and call hard. I’ve beaten DoA and I was proud of it. Not even 1% of what the raids are bringing will be as difficult as DoA. I made friends in this game. Friends that I would give anything to meet them in real life. I am part of such a wonderful community. I am proud to consider myself in the same community as Jerus, Wethsopu, Skady, dlonie, Rising Dusk, Brazil and everyone else!

I think we deserve a little spotlight ourselves after 3 years. We are not here to steal or transform the game. We just want our little corner. That’s all. But everything we do is condemned by casuals. In the end, of course, they are the victims and we are the bullies.

This is life for me, like it or not. I fail, I retry, I succeed, I reap the rewards. No buts and ifs. This is me, I am here since 2005 and I, with many others like me, aren’t going anywhere. Anet decided it’s time to honor us. We are here to stay and I will not let you spread misinformation and extremism just to fit your own selfish agenda.

Raids are coming. Do you even praise the sun, bro?

Even people who can raid for 50+ hours per week now may one day discover that they are no longer able to commit this much time due to a challenging job or a growing family. It will be a matter of time before your friends decide that they should not spend so much time on playing a game, no matter how skillful and amazing they are now. Most of them will choose to quit the game entirely if the raid content is no longer accessible to them. This happened over and over again in different games. So, yes, keeping the content more accessible will help you keep these friends.

Eirdyne.9843:

a whole crafting system based around improving your pole.

I believe I get quite a few spam emails about this already…..

Hi! I have two full accounts, including HoT, and one f2p account.

It is quite possible to play the core game for free. But a paid account does have a great deal of advantages. F2P has only 2 characters and those two only have three bag slots each. Try running Silverwastes with under 40 storage slots, it is ‘interesting’.

Only being able to whisper to people on the same map (and no mapchat), unless they are are on your friend list and you are on theirs. Never being able to send anything to anyone over the mail or access Guild Bank….

Personally, I am enjoying the challenge of the restrictions for now, but it will get really frustrating at the point one wants Ascended stuff. Laurels only come from Achievement Point Chests, which makes amulets and trinkets pretty much impossible. Also, among the things one cannot sell or buy at the TP are runes, sigils and recipies.

The point is, don’t envy the F2P people. It really is just a way to test if one really likes this game. If one does, buying the expansion is a good deal.