Guild Wars 2

Xenesis.6389:

Could have had a full suit of raid gear in WoW with the amount of times you spent killing him…

More like full Raid gear and decked out in full pvp gear as well. And the encounters would have been more challenging and fun.

edit: And probably had a couple rare mounts drop, and be able to outfit alts with other drops, and made a substantial amount of gold, and got some crafting mats, and etc,etc,etc.

caiomacos.1694:

So, Ive just built a Mjolnir, which on Charged Lodestones only costs almost 600g, way more than the cost of an Ascended, but still its stats are equal to exotic. I think I deserve better stats than Ascended weapons for my effort.

So, I was thinking that we could upgrade those rare weapons (like Mjolnir) stats to a new tier superior than Ascended. And then, Legendaries would be yet another tier, superior than Mjolnir.

Its very unfair that people who dont wanna make the effort to get a Mjolnir, or an Eye of Rodgort, Volcannus, etc have the same stats as we do.

Have fun.

Nah we don’t need more tiers of gear. If you want gear grinding go play WoW. If you haven’t noticed, ascended gear is a real pain to craft and an incredibly boring addition to the game.

Those skins are there for those who want to put the time and effort into getting them for the looks, not the stats.

Kevan.8912:

just a word…no. more money..more tokens…just more grind. definitely no.

Didn’t say anything about more grind, just sending it off differently. If you want to. I mean, really I’d just advocate people not bothering. But they’re not going to because they don’t want to be sub-par, so . . . I try to find a different way in theory.

It’s better than total RNG drop and nothing else. No. Let’s do that never again. Ever.

i think this: want to make ascended so grindy?
ok. just make not people need them for endgame.
increase exotic stats and leave them just for skins or combat animations or a title or…boh.
in wvw and pve everybody would so be on a par.
and: end of a major part of the complaints on this forum.

too easy? (too little money from gems i think.)

WvW everyone is already on par. They all die the same to well-played rogues

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

WRay.2391:

And please, no stupid comments about “you don’t need ascended”. Really tired of it.

So, I have to ask, what is it that you now cannot do on your alts because they do not have ascended?

Are you suddenly locked out of spvp?
Are you no longer able to access wvw?
Is there an armor rated area of pve that you now locked out of?
Can you no longer do the fractals that you were doing previously?

Please explain what exactly it is that you can ‘no longer do’ that makes your alts ‘useless.’

The game was bought because “by lvl 80 you will have BiS gear easily” + build experimenting. I paid money for this. It’s not “change your attitude”. It’s what I bought and what was changed in the most boring way. Money back process please as product is not as was advertised.

I usually get BiS gear (which is a grind evil but with exotics it was easy enough) and than go for game aspects that are interesting + skins grind which doesn’t feel abusive cause I’m not suffering stat loss. For constant gear grind Diablo 3 is much better game as it was designed for this (and Blizzard finally understood that RMAH is bad and loot should be better which is also good).

Enn Ooo

No

We don’t need a vertical gear treadmill. You don’t deserve higher stats because you forged a rare skin. If you want the higher stats, transmute it to an ascended weapon.

If another tier is introduced a lot of players ( myself included) will probably leave. Enough is enough already.

Yes, more tiers! I mean, it’s not like Arenanet hasn’t been getting a kittenstorm of hate from the player base already over ascended gear, let’s make it worse!

/sarc

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I did agree previously that ascended went against their previous philosophy that we should have BiS items by level 80. However, we asked for it, we brought it on ourselves. The louder voices screamed for another gear tier, and we got it. Anet simply gave the loudest voices of the playerbase exactly what they asked for,

If you go back to this forum at the time, the calls for another tier and for more vertical progression were not overwhelming. The criticism of ascended items since has been far greater.

Sweetbread.2679:

Why does there even need to be any discussion of Anet’s integrity or commitment to their said design philosophies after the whole manifesto fiasco? They can declare, promise, commit, plan, intend, proclaim anything and at best you have absolutely no idea if they actually mean any of it or not. I don’t feel that way when WoW or LoL devs discuss things, they actually have some proven reliability or merit behind what they say. With GW2 it all just feels like PR doublespeak or hype with little follow through. I’ve never seen a company kitten all over a good reputation as quickly as Anet has done this last year with how they’ve handled GW2.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Judging by the manifesto be thankful Anet do not make pharmaceuticals.

IndigoSundown.5419:

VOLKON.1290:

Reality check. Not one of your alts became useless with the addition of ascended gear. It doesn’t matter if you’re tired of hearing that “you don’t need ascended”. Facts are, whether they support your argument or not.

Reality check. One of the definitions of need is “a lack of something wanted or deemed necessary.” That version comes from Dictionary.com, if you care to verify. Notice the word “or.” So, talk all you want about minimal stat increase, you don’t get to decide what someone else “needs.” That’s the fact behind the “need-don’t need discussion.”

There is a distinct difference between a ‘want’ and a ‘need’ though.

You ‘need’ armor to player the game (theoretically); however that armor does not ‘need’ to be ascended. The game can be effectively played in rares all the way through. You ‘want’ ascended gear because it will make it easier and faster, but you do not ‘need’ it.

You ‘need’ agony resistance after lvl 10 in fractals; however you do not ‘need’ anything more than the trinkets presently provide. You ‘want’ what the additional pieces provide, but you do not ‘need’ them.

Its a very basic concept that parents used to teach their children. You ‘need’ clothes, you ‘want’ them to be a specific brand. But the reality is that brand ‘x’ works just as effectively as brand ‘y,’ but doesn’t cost as much.

VOLKON.1290:

Kevan.8912:

Le Pecheur.2074:

I’m confused… I used to play Everquest, and that was a grind. In fact, pretty much all of the game play I can remember in EQ was grinding, aside from the quest here and there.

I’ve also played Aion. That was a super grind for gear. I have 400 hours on it on steam from a year or 2 just to get a full set of level 30 armor when the max level was 50 or something like that at the time.

GW 2? I haven’t noticed any grind. In fact, I’d say it’s the least grindy MMO I’ve ever played in my life. The worst grinding I’ve experienced is dungeons to get exotic gear from there… which is just as good stat-wise as bought gear for relatively cheap so meh.

again, people just don’t care if any other game was less or more grindy.
there souldn’t be any grind AT ALL, dungeon or skin or anything, according to advertising they sold the game with.
but, ok, let’s try to accept it.

but, BiS grind no. it’s totally out of gw2 goals.
don’t care if gw1 was grinding. or if other mmo need even more hours to get it.
just excuses for people who like it.

It staggering how wrong you are. It really is. What do you expect, instant level 80 and a gift locker with all the available armor in it for the choosing? Really?

Look, it’s really simple. You need time sinks in an MMO to keep people busy, give them more things to do. If everything can be completed instantly people will quickly grow bored once they’ve instantly done it all and be demanding more. Content consumption would be so much faster than content development that the game would simply die from boredom.

Now, you speak oddly of how they advertised the game. They’re actually living completely up to expectations, with no gear treadmill (the endless grind) out there causing us to toss our gear every couple months and grind fresh for a new set. Ascended gear taking time to get is not the type of ‘grind’ that was being referred to. It was the required archaic treadmill concept that is the bane of far too many games these days. You’re no longer forced onto the gear grind treadmill. If you want to get ascended gear, great! Go for it! If not, no content will be cut off from you for choosing not to do so.

Sure. But these aren’t particularly fun time sinks.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

So, I have to ask, what is it that you now cannot do on your alts because they do not have ascended?

The question was not directed at me, but my answer is..

“..enjoy playing them.”

VOLKON.1290:

Now, you speak oddly of how they advertised the game. They’re actually living completely up to expectations

Such as the advertised, “max gear by level 80,” expectation ?

DarcShriek.5829:

Ethics.4519:

DarcShriek.5829:

Ethics.4519:

Oh yeah. It makes it okay? Well, next time I have a project at work that isn’t done. I’ll just go in a week before hand and say “Hey, sometimes stuff gets pushed back”. I’m sure my manager would be perfectly happy about that.

Just as an FYI, it’s okay to like the game and still see fault in actions of the company.

I get projects that get pushed back all the time. Right now all my projects are being pushed back. My engineers are all busy on earlier projects, so my projects are getting pushed back. It’s quite common in this field.

I’m an engineer as well. I have had projects also pushed back. However my manager didn’t say “oh yeah, things are subject to change, no problem”. He wants to know what the issue is and what I’m planning on doing about it. An excuse like “well, some stuff came up” doesn’t really cut it.

Also, even though I know I brought the example (as others have), there are still differences in the relationship between customers/company and employee/boss.

Last time I checked neither you nor I were managers at Anet. They don’t owe us detailed explanations. It makes me sad that someone that claims to understand that projects do get pushed back takes such a hard line position on this issue. They don’t owe you anything, stop acting like they do.

They don’t owe me anything? I’m a customer. You’re a fool if you think a company doesn’t owe a customer anything.

With your logic, Arenanet could completely stop all production and work on updates and that would be fine, because they don’t owe you anything.

They could completely shut down servers so you can’t play anymore, and that’s fine because they don’t owe you anything.

Oh and last time I checked, I never claimed that you or I were managers there.

I think the difference is GW2 advertise itself as this “non grindy game”.

The other mmorpg never advertise it that way.

Not to mention many former GW1 player bought GW2 because they thought there were be any power creep. Apparently there are at least some.

I don’t think that many people will be outrageous if this is another game forum. It’s just so they believed Anet won’t ever release any new tier which apparently they did.

VOLKON.1290:

Reality check. Not one of your alts became useless with the addition of ascended gear. It doesn’t matter if you’re tired of hearing that “you don’t need ascended”. Facts are, whether they support your argument or not.

Reality check. One of the definitions of need is “a lack of something wanted or deemed necessary.” That version comes from Dictionary.com, if you care to verify. Notice the word “or.” So, talk all you want about minimal stat increase, you don’t get to decide what someone else “needs.” That’s the fact behind the “need-don’t need discussion.”

I do agree that I would have been much happier had ascended been the same stats as exotic, but added the infusion slot for fractals ar needs. That’s what I had hoped to see.

Since we actually got a whole new tier, I am with Volkon that I can live with is so long as it is the last tier. I do expect them to continue to upgrade infusions from fine to ascended over time, and again as long as it stop there, I can deal with it.

We’ve been told that legendary armor is coming; however we’ve also been told that like weapons, it is an aesthetic thing and will have the same stats at the top gear tier. (and probably the out of combat stat switching like weapons)

Why does there even need to be any discussion of Anet’s integrity or commitment to their said design philosophies after the whole manifesto fiasco? They can declare, promise, commit, plan, intend, proclaim anything and at best you have absolutely no idea if they actually mean any of it or not. I don’t feel that way when WoW or LoL devs discuss things, they actually have some proven reliability or merit behind what they say. With GW2 it all just feels like PR doublespeak or hype with little follow through. I’ve never seen a company kitten all over a good reputation as quickly as Anet has done this last year with how they’ve handled GW2.

VOLKON.1290:

Bagel.4598:

VOLKON.1290:

Bagel.4598:

VOLKON.1290:

Bagel.4598:

Kevan.8912:

if you need more skins: ok, ask for what you want.

about future new BiS, i think that anet would face with a massive ragequitting of all the casuals they lured in by advertising “no treadmill”.

Already happened.

Anyone foolish enough to quit over a treadmill that doesn’t exist… well, I haven’t missed any of ’em.

If you don’t think there’s a gear treadmill then you’re part of the problem.

Where is it then? Where’s the next level of content requiring the next tier of gear forcing me to dispose of and replace my current existing tier?

The problem is actually with people that have no idea what a gear treadmill is, or even worse do know what it is but choose to use the term incorrectly in order to evoke an emotional response.

When you input gear that is a grind to acquire that has a greater statistical value than the current you create a treadmill.
Anyone who says “you don’t need it” are the same bland boss runners who will always be just that.
Just because you’re ok with something doesn’t make it ok for everyone.

The treadmill is the constant cycle of replacement that earlier raid based games used to keep players hooked.

Here’s the funny part… if they had released ascended gear exactly as it is now on release and never added a higher tier there wouldn’t be a single fallacious complaint about a treadmill.

And you know why that is? Because at release their philosophy was there wasn’t to be a gear grind and that exotics were the highest stat you could obtain.
Isn’t it funny how when you go back on your word there’s a whole kitten storm of backfire?
They did it once, they’ll do it again. That’s their thing.

I have an Eye of Rodgort and I am building a Vision of the Mists now.
I did it because it suits my character perfectly.

I absolutely do not want any more gear tiers, I won’t be getting any Ascended either.
I will however keep on making MF skins if it suits my characters

Azure Prower.8701:

I started since head start of the game.
I used to log on every day to do the dailies.
I used to care about getting every achievement point I could.
I’ve obtained the commander feature.
I’ve hit 80 on eight characters.
I’ve crafted 5 ascended weapons for my main.
I’ve crafted a legendary for my main.
I’ve reached the top 700 in achievement points.

Then the fractal revamp hit. Then come the ascended armors.

Now I’ve stopped caring. I’m losing interest.

Because I do not want to even think of farming for different tiers of cloth from mobs for ascended armors. Because I no longer want to repeat content I’ve done a thousand times before for an insignificant reward.

This has become a Korean grinder. I’m now struggling to log in.

Good post, all we can do is keep letting them know how bad the direction they have taken the last year has ground down even the most dedicated players.

At this point, I’m getting to where I don’t even blame people for botting anymore. At least they are getting a reward out of the game and not playing the same content x100. I’d never do it myself, but I can see why someone would for sure.

This game, at this juncture, is simply the biggest grind I have seen since Lineage 2 for end game gear. L2 is only slightly more annoying.

Don’t like to craft? GEAD, we don’t want you playing our game, or even remotely able to get end game gear.

Like WvW? Get out.

Wanna get ascended armor in WvW? Don’t make me laugh, well, ok, we’ll make it drop, but you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning 9 times than actually seeing the piece of armor you need drop.

Anet – Stop the senseless grinds! Bring the fun back to the game!

Given that the game was sold on sound bites like ‘Everyone, including casual players, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game’ and ‘no-one finds that [grinding] fun’, I don’t see that they have any reason to exist. How can anyone enjoy working towards something that is based purely on grinding the same content that has existed since launch? How can anyone with even a miniscule amount of skill consider stats worthy of being called a reward?

If you don’t think it’s possible to get people to work towards something other than stats I would like to remind you that there are people that have unlocked every single crafting recipe in the game, despite most of them being irrelevant and that legendaries originally were just PVT exotics with a fancy skin that you had to transmute if you wanted a different stat type; that didn’t stop people grinding for it.

Grind doesn’t have to be for advantage for people to be willing to do it. More power doesn’t have to be on the table for a reward to be worthy of a player’s time.

Qaelyn.7612:

Coldtart.4785:

Yet more ‘you don’t need it’ and ‘complaining about nothing’ to defend ascended. If ‘you don’t need it’ and it’s ‘nothing’ then why does it even deserve to exist in the game?

It “deserves to exist” for those who enjoy working towards it.

And, of course, for those who get joy out of complaining about having to “grind” for something they don’t actually have to grind for.

If I buy a product based on an advertisement and that product is no longer what the advertisement claimed it was, I want my money back.
That’s called false advertising and it’s illegal.
Changing something midway through and claiming it’s a change of direction doesn’t make it any more acceptable.
Because it’s a service we already experienced before this change happened, we can’t do anything about it.
And that’s how Anet gets away with half the crap the pull.

Yet more ‘you don’t need it’ and ‘complaining about nothing’ to defend ascended. If ‘you don’t need it’ and it’s ‘nothing’ then why does it even deserve to exist in the game? Defending ascended is literally defending a grind that has absolutely no reward. ‘People will leave if there’s no VP’ you say? Good. Let them go back to their scrubby games that give ever higher stats as a crutch so they don’t ever have to be good at anything.

timidobserver.7925:

Meh, not really. Most Commanders would trade a guy in full ascended that never stays on the commander or listens for a guy in exotics that stays on the commander at all time any day.

And most commanders would rather a guy in full ascended thats stays on him than someone in full exotics who stays on him.

Dog.1472:

So what has it really done for me? Well, all I can say is I was happier without it than I am now. There is not one thing about it I can think of that has affected me in a positive way.

Good post I hope this is the sort of post that the devs pay attention to.

Cornellious.1435:

It would be nice if they could find a better ( and more player friendly )way to monetize their game then through Gems->Gold. At present it seems to provide too much temptation for them to resist.

You have to be realistic in your requests. I happen to know people to spend 20, 40, and sometimes over 60 bucks a month on ridiculous stuff out of the cash shop and converting golds/gem. There is no way they are doing away with that system.

cesmode.4257:

Eh, I would say they definately over shot for their goals this year. Was it a legitimate case of being over-zealous? Or another tactic to generate some hype…much like pre launch?

Isn’t that what they do best? Overhyping on blog post and then letting down once the stuff goes live (when it does…)

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I just gotta laugh over people talking about endless raid grinds in WoW. You can only complete them once per week and I spend about 4-5 hours doing so because it’s real, permanent content and it’s actually fun. How long would it take me to gear one character in GW2 if I only spent 4-5 hrs a week in game?

0 weeks.

You’d have enough money saved from leveling to buy multiple sets of level 80 exotics.