Guild Wars 2

TBH, I doubt they’ll do anything to make warriors viable. There are so many fundamental design flaws in this game that they do not know how to fix it, If they haven’t done anything in 9 months, even though a warrior was subpar pretty much since release, and that JP said that they’ll be focusing on bug fixing this patch(I’m not even sure of why aren’t they making balance changes along with bug fixing concurrently), there goes another month of hell for warriors.

We are very weak against conditions, and if traited for their removal, we lose too much of pretty much everything. With traited condition removal, we cannot fill the role of spiker, which is already done better by a thief, we wouldn’t be able to bunker because of lack of access to defensive boons, the worst healing in game, and whatnot. If we go for team utility, we are again doing everything worse than other professions, so we are pretty much pigeonholed in damage specs. Hell, we can’t even spec for condi, because we don’t have access to enough conditions to cover damaging ones, so, there you go.

Our gap closers in our only viable spec are greatly affected by cripples and chills, which no other profession has problem with, because of good condition removal even when they aren’t built specifically for it. We are very easily kited, very poor in 1v1 against most professions, and quite bad in team fights too, due to lack of survivability, where we have to rely on 30 sec cd shield block, where a lot of attacks can’t even be blocked, our very limited amount of dodging, unless we are using warhorn, where you lose even that block and mega short range interrupt/burst starter.

We are the only profession, well, maybe along with necro, that needs to be babysitted, where ANet’s design philosophy was to make evey profession self reliable, by making everyone having their own heals, which for a warrior, as I’ve already said, are the worst heals in game.

Now, why are there so many problems with a warrior? First of, many of the problems aren’t really “our problems”, but rather combat/game design problems that we are greatly affected by.

First of all, there are too many evades, teleports, immunities, particle effects, AoE and condi spam. Since all of our important skills are easily telepgraphed, thus easy to dodge, which is perfectly fine, it’s insanely hard to land them on anyone that has been playing this game for a longer period of time. If they don’t have anymore dodges left, they can use short cd teleports, pretty much spammable evades, immunity, spammable blind, so they can shut us down without many problems. Meanwhile, we have no evades(well, except from ww, which is easily our greatest skill), no instant teleports, either for gap closing or running away, so we have to use our easily telepgraphed physical gap closers, which are affected by chills and cripples, though I’m repeating myself here, where ALL of the conditions are spammable, require zero brain to use in most cases. Tell me when you’ve seen someone applying poison at the moment of his opponent’s healing. No one. Or when someone uses weakness to lower his opponent energy regeneration, so he can burst/let others burst the opponent more easily, and so on. However, conditions that are affecting physical movement, aren’t lowering range of teleports, so teleports are so much batter than physical gap closers, where warrior can only rely on later, since they do not have teleports. Not to mention poor pathfinding…

Most of our traits are boring, or plain bad. I know other professions have those kinds of problems too, but you see, 9 months after release, our class specific trait, brawn, is still horrible, so warriors are underpowered in that field two. 3% burst damage increase for 30 pints in a tree, which is pretty much build defining, is really, really horrible, and I’m sorry to say this, but I really have to question intelligence of people that came up with that. I agree that 30% burst damage increase was way too powerful, but for god’s sake, couldn’t you completely revamp this kittenty trait for 9 months? Come on…

What does this game need? Less instant skills, less evade, less teleports, reduced density and intensity of particle effects, reduced aoe and condi spam, and condis, and skills in general more situational, reduced number of npcs, because, I swear it, half of the time I can’t see myself in a teamfight, and imagine a viewer of a tourney, or a shoutcaster which doesn’t know what the hell is currently happening, better telegraphed skills, just like warrior’s, or even an introduction of cast bars, because of all the kitten happening on your screen.

How’s about F2-F4 with a weapon skill of your choice (with an higher CD, maybe a factor of 1.5 on the initial CD. Skill#1 and bursts are exluded)?
So I’m playing Axe/Warhorn and can use Sword#2 on F2 (12sec CD), Greatsword#3 on F3 (15sec CD / 12sec traited) and Shield#5 on F4 (45sec CD / 36sec traited). Skills from equipped weapons will share CD (but the factor will only count on the hot-key).
You will loose one adrenaline level each time (and you need one at last).

Anet can’t balance a warrior with 2 weapon slots properly, how are they supposed to do that with 3 slots? oO

Warrior are supposed to be the masters of weapons and combat. We have by far the most weapons available to us. And our profession mechanic is pretty simple at the moment. A third weapon slot would be nice. Then I could roll out with offensive/defensive/ranged set.

Updated 6/30/2013

Tier List Key:
S = Superior (Highest Tier)
A = Average (All classes should strive to be here)
B = Below Average
C =

\\
The – (Negative) sign denotes that the class may fall into a lower Tier.
The + (Positive) sign denotes that the class may get bumped to a higher Tier.
The = (Equal) sign denotes that the class is equivalent to other classes with = in the Tier.
//
————————————————UPDATED 6/30/2013
Tier List v0.0.5 LATEST PATCH

Tier S
-Necromancer ( Just barely above Tier A+)

Tier A
+Mesmer
=Guardian (Slightly higher than Elementalist)
=Elementalist
-Engineer

Tier B
+Ranger
=Thief

Tier C
=/+ Warrior (Suggested it is not in a terrible position)

Previous list has been kept so people can compare the difference.

Tier List v0.0.4 5/4/2013

Tier List v0.0.3 POST PATCH

Tier List v0.0.2 PRE PATCH

Prefix:
Certain fighting games have a tier list to show which character(s) are on ‘top’ of the food chain.

This is usually depicted by number of tournament wins, available combos, and general skill cap, and match ups against other characters.

I propose a Tier list, updated every new balance patch to reflect what the community as a whole believe the top classes are.

I understand this is not perfect and would be happy to concede ownership of the thread to someone willing to maintain a much more detailed match up list.

Sound off below and based on the responses I’ll re-organize the list. In your response please provide a one-two sentence reason as to why you believe class A should be in position X. I’ll be updating the list every few new responses so as to not make rapid changes.

Danke.

I think these are fairly reasonable suggestions for possible buffs, better than the crazy reworks usually thrown out there. I’m not sure that warriors need all of these, but they’re nice suggestions.

I don’t agree with all of them though, particularly that suggestion of a 50% endurance regen as the first minor trait in defence. That trait is too powerful for anyone for a 5 point investment, even for rangers. I have no objections to the trait itself, but I believe it should be a bare minimum of 15 points to get it, preferably 20 or more (can be swapped with a major trait).

A for rampager, it shouldn’t need a stun breaker because it grants you stability for the duration. The real problem regarding this is that the stability boon can be stripped/converted/stolen. All transformations have this issue currently, and it makes no sense whatsoever, especially since there was a fix early on to remove the stability boon once you exited the transformation. That stability is supposed to be an immutable property of the transformation, yet it is not. hopefully we can see a fix for this sometime soon.

In addition to rampager, I don’t think it needs the utilities there, but perhaps a characteristic similar to “unstoppable” like some of the larger, tougher PvE enemies have (i.e. risen abominations). Being immune to movement impairing and disabling effects would give it some attractive utility, or at least give it some more uniqueness.

Immunity to blind would also be helpful since the attacks are somewhat slow and have to be targeted.

but the potential of the skill in WvWvW is immense. if tweaked and reworked.

Miro.8651:

alcopaul.2156:

IWAY is part of the tradition. It’s the most famous build in Guild Wars history.

Reinstate IWAY in the Warrior Bar!

signed
gw1 -> SLAWO [rage]

Thanks for the support!

And see this..

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=634376

They even talk about it in LoL. You don’t see “GW1 balanced” being talked about in LoL forums!!!!

alcopaul.2156:

IWAY is part of the tradition. It’s the most famous build in Guild Wars history.

Reinstate IWAY in the Warrior Bar!

signed
gw1 → SLAWO [rage]

2nd problem are the weaphons.
there are only 2 weaphons witch can be used in condi build and this is longbow and 1 handed sword ( main and offhand)

now the problems with this weaphons. sword mainhand is ok but the 3rd hit (Final trust) should not deal so much direkt dmg. the dmg swd hould be normal but give this 3rd hit a special condi (50% change poison and 50% freeze).

the sword in offhand is 50% ok ^^.
the 4th attack is a nice skill with a long time bleed. but the 5th skill is nearly useless. you block 1 attack and hit the target witch will not stand near you…. . there are so many pets illus and other aoe attacks that this skill (Riposte) will nearly never hit a player. and the effekt of this skill is the same like the 4th skill (WTF… realy?)
both skills give 4 stacks bleeding over the same time.

now we see the Flurry skill from warrior. you need full adrenalin to use it perfectly. if you have full adrenalin you stay 2,5 sekends at 1 position like a fool and all enemys will kick your kitten and the joke is in this time you deal not realy much dmg.
i remember a mesmer skill where he is unkillable and a thief skill like this where you got stunned and the thief is dodging.and this are normal weaphon skills with 8 sekend cooldown. so why do the warrior need adrenalin for this and why is he the only idiot who get nuked by other players in this time??? i dont know the sense to use this skill incombat. 2 autoattacks with sword deal nearly same bleeding dmg like this F1 skill and i can move around.

now lets check the longbow.
the longbow is a bit better than the sword but there are 2 attacks witch need a change!!!
first: in my opinion
-F1
-Skill 2
-Skill 4
-Skill 5

are good disigned. but there are 2 problems with the bow. first problem witch i will never understand is why does this condition ( i think this is cndi weaphon) weaphon have a skill like “Arcing Arrow”. its kitten realy strong Power shot without any usefull ability for conditions. the dmg should be a bit lower but there should come 1 or more usefull conditions, like freeze/ cripple/ poison /confusion (because of this strong hit or so).

then lets check the autoattack from bow. its not realy strong for power builds because this enorm fire rate xD. and useless for conditioners. there is nothing. maybe give this bow a change to deal condition dmg like the shortbow from ranger witch is much better because the realy nice firerate. you deal 6-8 bleeding stacks wihle auto attacking with shortbow while the longbow from warrior do nothing just a bit normal dmg.
the warrior is shoting with 2 arrows. so maybe the first arrow deal bleeding and the 2nd arrow gives poison 10% freeze 10% burn10% and 70% nothing.

if some of this changes will come in the next patches there are more that 1 way to play the warrior in future and we will delete most bad thinks from condi warri

1. bad weaphons
2. bad traits
3. warrior have only 2-3 conditions (bleed, bit burn, here and here cripple). the mainproblem was that there is only 1 condi remove needed to delete all the dmg the warri tried to deal with all his attacks.

i think this will help the warriors to have more builds and become more usefull in fights without a greatsword)

please give feedback and sorry for my bad english.

hi there,

i play the warrior from release and there are not many ways to play him( i mean PVP because in pve its a good class. in pvp its the weakest one).
i see many threats with new ideas and most of them are realy nice but i dont found somethink with condi warri. i stayed in the mists and tried many things and there a had a ideo from a condition warrior. but there are some problems i see when i try to play him.

1. the traits are realy bad. the bleeding traits are in the same trait like the GSspear and rifle ( the strongest Direkt dmg weaphons). also the traits you can choose are realy bad.
- Blademaster ( increase the critical hit change with sword by 10%) i ask me why. the 1 handed sword is a condition weaphon with bleed on 1 4 5 so why i need more and more krit change. when i se a amulett with a bit präti and i skill weaphon trait i have enought crit change. there is no need to have more.

-Deep cuts Bleeds holds 50% longer ( is a good trait).

the other traits there are nearly useless as conditioner. many traits give vulnerability or more dmg with GS or rifle.
all other traits are nor realy for conditioner so i played my warrior as shout heal conditioner to test it.1 because i didnt know what i should trait and the 2 reason is that the warrior needs to stay many times in melee range with his sword so you need a bit more sustain than other classes.
mesmer …. illus do all
thief where? i cant see him he is in stealth while regging and enemies die in caltraps because they must def the point ^^
engenier good CC and MASSIV condis ( burn, freeze, bleed, poison, blind, root)

so if there is a change that a net will let u splay the warrior as conditioner there should be some more traits.

……check next post…..

I like quite a lot of these ideas. I would totally support the suggested change to Berserker Stance. It suits the warrior flavor that anet is shooting for. The Embrace the pain idea is nice too.

However I do not like the Signet of Fury idea, changing what a skill does completely is never a good thing. You’re better off improving on it’s intended function, like the new Signet of Might.

OP put alot of work into this. Fine job, though some changes are needed more than others. Hopefully the devs steal a couple from this list.

Mending should remove all conditions (see “Consume Conditions” from Necro).
Balance stance should have a shorter cd and a shorter duration of stability (see “Stand your Ground” from Guard). The rest seems legit, without overpower the class. I like the slight increases/decreases.

As every person who has pvp’d for a decent amount of time knows by now, warriors have some serious survivability issues in PvP. This is a suggestion to rectify that issue without (hopefully) making them unstoppable beasts in PvP (lol). Smoke fields would provide clutch applications of blinds and stealth, giving warriors some much needed survivability mechanics.

But why smoke fields? Wouldn’t that make warriors like thieves?

An excellent question! This is because I know that anet has an (unfortunate) obsession with plausibility, and the most plausible field for warriors to have other than fire would be smoke (by pounding the ground or stirring up dust in whatever way).

The caveat is that the warrior’s smoke fields differ from the thief’s in that they
1) Don’t pulse blind, only apply it once when it appears
2) Are very short duration (think 2-3 seconds)

This means that a warrior would have to make /very/ good use of their finishers to turn these smoke fields into a real survivability mechanic. Not to mention using up their finishers for these smoke fields means they’re using up key skills like arcing arrow!

As for what skills get smoke fields, my suggestions are:

Longbow 4: Now sets down a 3s smoke field as well.
Hammer 4: Whirl with great force, stirring up a dust cloud smoke field for 3s. (also improve its range or something jeez)
Greatsword F1: Smash the ground, stirring up a 2s smoke field.

A polite request for the mods not to move this thread to the warrior forums as this is a specifically PvP suggestion thread and I don’t want a million wvw or pve warriors telling me how much they own in a zerg or how their 100b damage is already so op that they don’t need more buffs.

I would like to see a small icon-in a corner-showing the cooldown of my traits(eg Panic Strike/Hard to Catch for thieves,Mirror of Anguish for mesmers etc).It would make the interface more complicated but I believe it offers more than it requires.
Anyone feeling the same…?Just an improvement for the long-distant future since the primary goals are just too many for Anet…

Good read, some good fixes in there that won’t have the world crying OP!!

Some great ideas, especially the weapon set fixes.

When are we going to get some kind of consideration from Anet? AFK “players” and rage quitters are making tPvP downright nasty.

It especially compounds when it concerns random teams (random vs premade is another whole can of worms).

When are we going to see some genuine effort on Anet’s behalf for these issues? A report option for AFK or leavers is easy to add to the report option. Even better, would be brining back the dishonorable hex from GW1.

It was important enough to have in GW1. Why is it not important enough in GW2?

Valkyriez.6578:

Balance is fine. More practice is needed.

Says the guy who plays a Mesmer and a Guardian.

I don’t want to be mean, but i apologize in advance if I offend somebody,

I saw a couple broadcasts with the balance team, and i’m sure those guys never played this game, i’m completly sure they played the prologe and quit the game to keep playing call of duty or whatever they do except balancing this game,

We all know rangers were a mediocre class, after patch now we got an inmortal elementalist with a 10 seconds lasting regeneration and a thief who runs with him laying waste around,

It would take 15 minutes test and two guys to realize the ranger, at this moment, is overkill,

Engineers were one of the worst classes, now we got an inmortal guy who can hold a point against 2 enemies with ease,

Necromancers… my main class, the community gave to Anet millions of advices, the class is still facing the same issues since release, (and now we are going to get a new condition… because balance is so perfect in this game that we need more complexity),

Warriors… it should be another game called “PvE Guild Warriors” because its all they can do… kill mobs and farm,

Thieves… i’m not even going to talk about this,

What’s wrong with you guys? Why don’t you hear to some people who have played hours and hours instead a group of 3 guys who have not idea about this game?

I swear you guys i’m not a freaking genious and i don’t play more than 2 hours per day, but i could balance this game much better than your “balance team”,

And this is not an unnecessary aggression, it’s for the sake of this game that i like so much,

Please, wake up guys and start playing your own game,

Go watch some Spvp games,

This game needs balance, not a patch each 3 months whose only purpose is to screw the game even more than before,

Regards,

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Common Misconception: Ranger F# skills
You can still use them when downed even though they are not in the GUI. So yes, you can interrupt with your #2 skill and then wolf fear and then command the wolf to knock down your opponent then switch pets to something else and so on and so forth. (OP imo)

Stop promoting broken mechanics that are likely to be a bug even.

The whole reason why Starcraft / LoL work is because people want to learn from top players to improve their own ability to climb the ladder.

GW2 has no real ladder, just hardcore pre-mades stomping pugs all day and occasionally playing against each other.

Observer mode is really only useful for people who like to watch pretty particle effects and graphics. Its not very useful for people who want to actually learn how to play.

The main reason why the recent tournies have gotten decent viewership is because people have been waiting for this for 8 months. Once the novelty wears off we’ll see how it goes.

I doubt people will want to continue volunteering huge amounts of their time to a ship that has already sailed.

It is purely about the skills sets (and to some extent, the animations associated) and general game design.

Guild Wars 2 is horribly kitey, and there is literally not a single kit on any character in the entire game that has anything like the tightness and personality of even a mediocre League of Legends champion.

Tying skills to weapons sets to make it impossible to customise builds (other than which set of compulsory 30+ second cooldowns you want) AND relying on so many ‘big circle on the ground’ combos were both SPECTACULARLY bad moves from any point of view, PvP or PvE. You literally cannot show someone a Guild Wars 2 PvP video and see something that makes sense and looks graphical impressive.

It’s just a bunch of people jumping around circles quickly with the occasional ludicrously fast weapon animation going off, for not very much effect.

Add to that the even more ridiculous stuff, like perma-stealth (not even WoW suffered from something so dumb) and the fun killing zerginess of WvW and it’s clear that Anet needs to completely clear out its design team and start over with people who have even the faintest clue what they’re really trying to build.

Rewards/incentive, and the separation of PvP/PvE.

Yes, separate the balance part, but that should have been it.

When did you say your guild made it to top 1?

Anyway, I think it would be better if the devs focused on improvements to the gameplay rather than making the game easier to cast.

Having fun playing a game > any e-sport crap