(edited by maddoctor.2738)
If that were true they wouldn’t have to ghetto those voices into a single thread.
Actually it’s a good thing when they merge all your posts into one.
Constant communication is a different metric entirely, and it’s a bit silly to cite “lack of complaints” in a complaint thread.
No it’s not. and you are the only one complaining anyway.
That’s not true at all. I’m very vocal, certainly, but there have been at least a half-dozen threads on the topic this week, only one of which I started, and many more participants that are in some way dissatisfied with how raids currently function. I’m sure there’s more than that going on, but that alone is more significant than you let on.
No you are the only vocal one and the only one who promotes such threads, it’s a good thing they merge any thread you post on.
Both of those figures would be dubious in this case, since we don’t know the actual number of people involved (beyond the 5-man “core” team), and we don’t know the exact size of ANet, or of how many of those people are active developers, verses support staff that would be involved in actual development. We also don’t know how many people actually enjoy the current raids.
We do know that 5% of developers. We do know the exact size of the dev team. The number of people enjoying the content is coming up by complainers.
how many of the other 95% are dissatisfied with raids.
That’s irrelevant.
It is always the developer’s fault when they don’t properly account for their players habits.
No it’s not, it’s only the community to blame here.
And again, it rarely comes down to that. It’s not a player going “that raid is not for me, I QUIT!” It’s about the player’s subconsciously thinking “that raid is not for me, but they sure are focusing on it a lot. . .”
That’s false again. The Raid is an excuse against the difficulty of HoT, the meta-centric design etc. Easier to blame Raids for everything.
I’ve never once heard someone ask for an equal share by doing less. All I’ve heard is people asking for a lesser share for doing less.
Think of it this way, being a doctor is hard. You have to spend years extra in school learning to doctor, and it takes a lot of skill to achieve. Being a plumber is easier. It takes a lot less practice and a lot less native skill. Being a doctor, you earn more money, but being a plumber doesn’t mean you earn “plumber funbucks,” it means you earn dollars, exactly the same as the doctor, just less of them. If a plumber wants to buy a $200K sports car, he doesn’t get told “sorry, you’re just a plumber, you can only buy this car with Doctor-bucks, which only doctors can earn in any quantity.” No, if they save up, they can buy whatever they like. It might take them longer, but they still have that option.
That’s all that’s being asked here, an easier, but significantly slower path to the same goals.
I don’t go into WvW crying about not having a Mistforged weapon or PvP about not being able to get the Ascension without doing PvP.
But if either of those bothered you, then you should, and I would support you. If they don’t actually bother you then you’re just raising a straw man position.
So please, keep your high horse to yourself. At least we’re honest about our intentions, unlike some here.
I’m always completely honest about my intentions, it’s just those intentions really bother some people so they choose to portray me as having different ones instead.
That’s a horrible analogy. No, what you’re asking for is very different. You do realize that the legendary armor precursor is a collection quest, and not something you ‘buy’?
Instead of asking for the ability to buy things with ‘Doctor-bucks’, you’re asking for the right to be called a doctor and be recognized as such, despite being a plumber. You’re asking for the ability to be recognized for something only the most dedicated doctors will be able to get, by doing half the effort. It doesn’t matter if it takes twice as long, you should not be able to get it without learning how to be a doctor first.
That’s like saying a plumber should be allowed to do open-heart surgery, only slower because ‘they still have that option’. It. Does. Not. Make. Sense.
Ohoni.6057:
But if either of those bothered you, then you should, and I would support you. If they don’t actually bother you then you’re just raising a straw man position.
It’s not a strawman when it’s your actual position.
Yes, that’s what I said. If Sabetha is actually bothered that you need to WvW for Mistforged, or PvP for Ascension, then she should be making the case that they should be available elsewhere, and I would support her 120% in that effort. If she doesn’t actually care about those things, and just raises them as reason to NOT expand rewards in other areas of the game, then it’s just raising the point to shoot it down.
Stop putting words in my mouth. And stop straw-manning my argument as well. I raised them as pertinent examples of why we should not let the current set of legendary armor be obtainable from anything but normal raids, because every game mode needs its perks. WvW, PvP, open-world PvE, instanced PvE.
You want your loot? Work towards it. If you don’t want to, nobody’s forcing you to play raids.
All your time spent complaining in forums won’t change a thing either. You can choose to work on learning how to be a good doctor, or remain a plumber and pretend that you’re being discriminated against.
Looking at your previous posts, I don’t understand how you’re complaining so vehemently about raids while you’re slogging through PvP for the Ascension, and have had someone try to help you through Gorseval. Seriously, being lazy doesn’t help your case.
It basically translates to “clearly there are a lot of you that care about this, but we don’t, so we’d rather put you into this tiny ghetto where we can more easily ignore you.”
I wouldn’t call it “a lot of you”, it’s just a couple of very vocal posters on these forums like yourself.
since i am a raider rly commit to raids and harder content, lets take a look on the other side.
i want a hardmode option in the open world, like in guild wars 1.
so, nerf all rewards from the open world since it is faceroll and requires nearly no skill at all and you only get better rewards when you actually play in hardmode.
…now much ppl would rage?
raids are fine as they are, there is content for everyone. there is no need for easy modes, since raids are already not that hardcore as most players think they are.
just look at 6 man videos from all 3 bosses of the first wing. yes, you actually have to be really skilled to do that. but nerverless it is possible, so they aren’t that hard to beginn with.
also look at the 40 mins valeguard kill.
…or that the second raid got cleared after 1 day by a guild like salt (not saying they are bad, keep that in mind).
there are players out there, clicking skills, never set up a decent keyboard setting for keys, dodging with pressing double w and complaining that they can’t react fast enough, never bothered looking into their build and tweak it or get a build in wich benefits the whole group.
i don’t think that people wich play like this should get an easy mode just because they don’t try to get into it.
i have raided much in many different groups and with ppl wich where in there 20’s to others wich where older than 50…and i can say one thing, nothing, absolutly nothing holds you back from beating it.
most ppl are just too lazy to commit. if you commit, you can do it without problems.
and with commiting i don’t only mean that you should craft your gear and invest time into your charakter, i mean also that you commit to the raid. you want to learn the mechanics and you want to explore how to beat the boss. it depends on how fast you and the group learns it…sometimes you need more time then others.
and there are people out there wich do that and you just have to reach out to these people.
just being a forum warrior and posting much stuff doesn’t really mean that most other people think like you…that there should be a easy mode just for it.
either you commit to raid and you can do it, or you don’t want to and stay away from the content and just look videos from it, like the rest does it to see it.
you shouldn’t feel bad if you cant raid, you should just accept it that this is no content for you.
the content will get easier with the time anyways…be it through exp gamers or like getting new specs for classes.
…and if there should really be an easy mode just for the sake of the story, then there should be absolutly no reward for it. no legendary stuff, no gold, no shards…just nothing.
because you are here for the story right. thats rewarding enough.
So far its the most fun i ever had, where the content needs u to actually play at your 100% to get rewarded. For me an “easy mode” would just take all the fun out of it.
That’s great! since that’s how you feel, I would recommend that if they add an easy mode, that you do not play it. It sounds like you wouldn’t enjoy it. But of course for those who would enjoy an easy mode, and do not enjoy the sort of experience you’re describing, because they are different people with different tastes, they would have that new option, so everybody wins!
1) Wasted development time and resources.
2) Seen what it did in WoW (splitting community, causing burnout and did not increase numbers doing actual raids).
3) Nothing left to aspire to, people no longer need to try hard and succeed at exciting content the devs have worked really hard on (people who could be convinced to try raids will just run through easymode and never think to do it again on proper difficulty – this is exactly what happened in WoW).
4) Ohoni is just after loot.
Nope.
Thankfully, you’re not in charge of Anet, so it really doesn’t matter what you want for the game.
Thankfully, neither are you.
Raids are here to stay.
At some time people were saying that about dungeons. These got axed anyway (and remember, that they were far more popular at that time than raids are now).
You can either adapt, or continue to moan. Nobody will actually care, because y’know, we’re playing the game. Adapting. Unlike you, it seems.
Just like Raiders adapted to the game with no raids in, instead of “moaning” and asking for Anet to implement raids?
Oh wait…Or don’t. Nobody’s telling you how you should play the game, unless you insist on telling us how to do so.
Nobody’s telling you how to play the game (yet). The content this thread is about is not for you (clearly). And yet it’s you that keep insisting that we shouldn’t have it.
So please, go ahead, and apply your own advice to yourself first.
Dungeons were more popular? One has had three years, the other has had half a year. Please compare a proportionate sample size.
Also, I started playing a year before raids were even a concept. I’m relatively new to the concept of raiding — I’ve never done it until Spirit Vale came out. Your accusation of my ‘moaning for raids’ holds little water here.
Guess what happened? I struggled a lot with VG at first. I had my moments of frustration. Then I learned to adapt. I made new classes to pug raids. I looked for raid guilds, and I’m currently in a nice, casual-frame-of-mind one.
Now I’ve killed all three bosses. I’m nowhere near being a super-experienced raider, but neither am I complaining about there being hardcore content for players.
I’m not telling Anet to make faceroll content harder, or to make GW2 for the elite players in general. But you people keep complaining about raids and insisting that you deserve an equal share by doing less. I do not agree with this. Is this wrong? I have already said in earlier comments that an ‘easy mode’ is fine, as long as the rewards are minimal, or non-existent.
Raids exist to challenge the player. If the player refuses to be challenged, they do not deserve the reward for it. Simple as that.
I don’t go into WvW crying about not having a Mistforged weapon or PvP about not being able to get the Ascension without doing PvP.
So please, keep your high horse to yourself. At least we’re honest about our intentions, unlike some here.
“Easy mode” might make some non-raiders happy but it would ruin raiding for a majority of the raiding community, whether you agree with it or not.
Now, who do you think ArenaNet wants their raid content to appeal to more: raiders or non-raiders?
“Easy mode” might make some non-raiders happy but it would ruin raiding for a majority of the raiding community, whether you agree with it or not.
Now, who do you think ArenaNet wants their raid content to appeal to more: raiders or non-raiders?
I’ll be honest, me and some guildies started doing Sloth a few days ago and for most of us its the first raid we ever played. Atm we are mostly wiping after around 30% health and keep trying to get better.
So far its the most fun i ever had, where the content needs u to actually play at your 100% to get rewarded. For me an “easy mode” would just take all the fun out of it. For people who try to kill bosses there is the thrill of getting there and for people u can consistently clear it there are the actual rewards.
For people that just complain in forums about the game not being braindead after so many years……. i dont even know what to think. So far people have been complaining about anything that either requires time or effort, i bet nobody takes them seriously now, especially Anet.
And for people that complain about how to get people together…..seriously someone in the guild chat suggested trying out the new raid wing and those avalable just hoped on ts. Its not rocket science unless u are a completely solo player in an mmo (oh the irony).
The problem is the need to have some success. Going in and failing over and over and over again does not make people aspire. If they aren’t having success at some level they give up. Giving them a level success will keep them wanting to improve to the higher more difficult level of raid.
But there is a form of success. The bosses of the first wing (I can’t comment on wing2) are all using the same design approach of phases and each phase is like the previous one with a few tweaks.
The incremental success comes from defeating the earlier phases. At some point you master them and then the later phases become much much easier. That’s why the Raid design is perfect for a learning process, when learning any subject you don’t start with the complicated things but with the basics. As you master the basics you can move further up the chain and take on harder and more complicated topics.
That’s how the phases work too. If you cannot reliably and without problems beat phase 1 do not expect to ever beat phase 2, become better and better at phase 1 until phase 2 becomes easy, then you go to phase 3.
…
So just don’t play raids. Why the hell is this still a discussion?! You don’t like them, don’t play them, there, solved your issue!
Raid exclusive rewards and further orienting of content (such as PVE class balancing) towards raids means that this is a train no one gets off of.
So in order to get a certain shiney weapon or armour you’re prepared to damage a successful raid system that thousands of people enjoy? I hope you don’t really want to do that.
Only if there’s no other alternative – but currently you don’t seem to be willing to even consider any.
And i wouldn’t be so quick to label the system “succesful”. If it was that succesful, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
So things are only successful if you like them?
You’re right I will not budge for people who are hunting for loot with no effort.
Raids are great.
The vocal minority who want legendary armor and unique ascended items without putting in the time however….Not so much.
Hopefully they never go back on the design process as this is one area in the game where in the unique rewards justify the effort put in by all 10 players.
I don’t like PvP. I think the community is very toxic, immature and encompasses the worst that GW2 has to offer. But Anet added leagues and a legendary back piece. The only back piece in the ENTIRE game that I really, really like. Yet I have to play PvP to get it. That forces me to play something I don’t like, it’s horrible.
So you know what? PvP is hurting GW2 and it excludes players who don’t PvP because they can’t get the back piece. Also, most GW2 players don’t actually play PvP that much at all. So I propose we completely remove the mode from the game, because I don’t enjoy it and it offers rewards I can’t get.
Are you getting the hint yet?
EDIT: For the record I really do want that back piece (and am working towards it) and I really do dislike the PvP community. Under no circumstances do I want PvP or leagues removed. I don’t like them, but that doesn’t mean I should kitten it up for other people and demand they remove it.
(edited by Andulias.9516)
And to what would you attribute them “getting easier?”
How about skill? Routine? Learning the fight? Things that you obviously don’t want to do
I am an engineer – a pianist of destruction! Now please go back to standing in my AOE.
http://wpwhendead.tumblr.com - a GW2 webcomic about a Charr and a Skritt
http://wpwhendead.tumblr.com - a GW2 webcomic about a Charr and a Skritt
Dungeons only become “easier” when either A: there is power creep, which I don’t expect in any significant fashion anytime soon, or B: when people learn outright exploits that ANet decides not to patch. I kind of doubt that they would leave exploits in on raids, since they seem to really want them to be hard, and if they did allow exploits to stick around then it would trivialize the “hardcore cred” you guys seem to value far more than any “easy mode” ever would.
That’s false. Especially for Arah the fight with Lupicus was hard for a while after release but it got to a much easier point before the introduction of Ascended gear (power creep) and before the cheese ways of killing him (reflecting on the wall). And the same can be said for many other encounters too
You are underestimating the ability of a playerbase as a whole to figure out better team compositions, better tactics and better builds to overcome challenging encounters. And in the process it makes the encounters easier for everyone else, without powercreep or exploits.
You should NEVER have to buy your way through content to get past a difficulty gate, there should always be routes built into the game for overcoming it yourself, taking a slower but less challenging path.
Or you know, you can wait until it becomes much easier without changing anything. Dungeons were considered hard at release, some even for months after, especially Arah. Then Fractals and Aetherpath were also considered “hard”. Then gradually they all became much easier. Give it some time, Raids are still new
Hear, hear! I look forward to my casual, guild runs on a weekly basis and they’re always a blast. It’s great content and is something I’m super happy ANet is supporting actively.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
I know that I cannot be the only one VERY tired of the hostility, negativity, and complaining for the sake of complaining on raids in the last few weeks.
So…I’m creating this thread to give the raids the praise they deserve and some constructive feedback.
Raiding is the most fun that I’ve had in GW2. I thrive on challenging content that brings out the best in players and makes them better, even if that takes time. I’m not going to get into an “easy/story” mode in this thread and I’d ask that others do the same. There are plenty of threads for that.
Without going into a laundry list of items, I’d like to highlight a few things that I think Anet did really well:
1. Progression of difficulty between the bosses (especially wing 1)
2. Diversity of encounters. (wing 1 vs wing 2 might as well not even be the same game they are so different)
3. Fun extra rewards such as the statues for the guild hall
Here are a few small things that I feel they could improve without drastically changing the content/dev time:
1. Make all AOE markers on the players more obvious and distinguishable between the environment. For example, there is no excuse for making the volatile poison AOE so far above the players head AND the same color as many other details in the arena. I don’t have trouble with it, but I know that many do and it greatly depends on your graphical settings. I’m sure this is more difficult than I am making it out to be, but being a software developer myself, I believe this is something that should be evaluated during Dev/QA.
2. I think the addition of the “hard mode” achievements for wing 2 is wonderful. However, I think they need tiny bit more incentive to complete them. Even if I was able to complete them today, if everyone in the group has that achievement, there is no additional incentive. I believe that every time you run the raid, you should have to evaluate with your team whether or not you should attempt the “hard mode”. This could be something simple as an achievement/title/collection that requires you to collect an item that is dropped via the “hard mode” multiple times, or a small increase in the drop rate for ascended items, etc.
3. In a particular raid wing, I think it would be cool to give players a choice as to what boss/encounter comes next. Obviously not for every boss in every raid, but in other games I enjoyed raids where after killing 1 or 2 bosses, you could choose to go left or right to fight a certain boss. That way, if you were struggling or got tired of attempting a particular boss, you could swap over to the other one.
I’d be interested to see what other people think and to give their own positive feedback.
(edited by ButterPeanut.9746)
Dungeons are strung together with difficult-to-parse scripting and are very hard to diagnose when issues come up. Fractals create an environment that’s much easier to simply drop in a new Fractal, whereas dungeons require massive amounts of terrain design and map locations, and require lots of very specific custom skins associated with them. In the case of Fractals, a lot of these things are much lower impact.
I’m not surprised ANet dropped dungeons, honestly. They were an unsustainable system.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
@Ohana
So, you don’t want the rewards. You don’t care for putting in the time and work that is required for raiding. You simply wish to zerg down each boss in a boring fashion to see the environmental views?
You’re one in a million my friend. Here’s what I would suggest. Put some more time into this game. Maximize yourself in fractal/dungeon environments. Max out your masteries. Put some work in sPvP with a real team practicing real strats and builds. Challenge yourself in other places. Once you do this you will find that things such as raids are ridiculously easy.
Raiding is not for the new player. It’s not for the player who has put 100 hours into this game. GW2 Is literally catering to the dedicated player who has put over 1000 hours and actually knows a thing or two about optimization and theorycrafting. You don’t even have to really do that! Other people have literally done the work for you!
Then, once you have mastered all aspects of this game BELOW raiding, perhaps it will be time to move on to that. First, you must practice. What you’re doing is essentially throwing someone completely oblivious to FPS games into CoD: MW1 and expecting them to instantly conquer veteran difficulty. Nope, doesn’t work like that. You need to work up to that.
Raiding will be around forever. Simply work up to it first.
Ohani,
You need to go out and find a guild that is successfully progressing through the raiding content. It is obvious that the only reason you are reaching this conclusion is due to the fact that you are running with people who can not handle their responsibilities. You would literally flip your opinion if you were more successful.
Now, this may mean you need to dedicate 6-9 hours a week to raiding, but if you really want this then you will have no issue doing that. This is how raiding works. As for pugging. You’re relying on faith that your fellow pugs have already put the time into the content that is being cleared. This is more than likely not true though since pugs are generally less successful than full teams who practice together.
Now that’s where you’re wrong avarice.
Ohoni just want the raid reward, he himself isn’t interested in raid (like someone could dislike fractal but still do it for ascended trinkets). Even he has said that he dislike how he has to repeat the fight from beginning when he failed, because he supposedly has cleared the earlier phase. So I suppose after he cleared the wing, he’d expect to just be able to “press F to gain shard” since he has won against the bosses before.
Ohani,
You need to go out and find a guild that is successfully progressing through the raiding content. It is obvious that the only reason you are reaching this conclusion is due to the fact that you are running with people who can not handle their responsibilities. You would literally flip your opinion if you were more successful.
Now, this may mean you need to dedicate 6-9 hours a week to raiding, but if you really want this then you will have no issue doing that. This is how raiding works. As for pugging. You’re relying on faith that your fellow pugs have already put the time into the content that is being cleared. This is more than likely not true though since pugs are generally less successful than full teams who practice together.
My personal story? I bought this expansion about a month ago after taking a year long break. I blew through the HoT story/exploration in the matter of a few days. I discovered that raiding would require a team so I set out to find a raiding guild. I found one the next day and began progressing through SV. I cleared the first wing within two weeks of buying the expansion. Now were working on Matthais in the second wing. It’s really not that hard. Just do the work. What you are asking for is a lazy alternative to raiding. It’s simply lazy because you do not want to put the work in. You wipe to Gors maybe 5-6 times and say TOO HARD I’M OUT.
I’re read every comment in this thread and want to add to/address a few…
…I explained the harm from the perspective of a raid leader and guild master. It’s not something you would understand if you’ve never done progression raiding.
When they talk about burnout, they’re referring to progression raiding. This is the phase of raiding where you haven’t yet completed the content and raid nights consist of repeated failures with only incremental progress and little or no reward to show for it.
How easy do you really think it is to keep players showing up for that each week? And what do you suppose the impact on an already demoralized raid is when a critical player leaves and has to be replaced with someone who hasn’t put in any time practicing with the group?
That’s the true challenge of raiding and why it requires so much time. These guys who talk about how you only need an hour or two each week to raid are talking about farm content. Progression requires much more time and managing the logistics is the biggest challenge…
Lots of people talked WoW, so I’d like to add the GW2 perspective. This is my guild right now. We’re working hard and have been raiding together since Spirit Vale released, but this has been our experience almost every week since then. We raid casually, 2 nights a week for 2 hours (down from 3), and have downed VG & are finally getting close to downing Gors (15% lowest).
When we started, we had a full group of 10 regulars + a few backups. A fair number of those people have left GW2 for other games, and now we go week to week, unsure if we’ll actually be able to raid. If someone has work, takes a vacation, etc. we don’t raid. Pure and simple (not complaining, btw: we don’t pug).
I fully understand people being discouraged. I fully understand people not wanting to bang their heads against walls for hours on end with very little sense of progress. I fully understand people deciding that raids (and that experience) are not for them. I fully understand the frustration of having new people flowing into the group who lack raiding experience and feeling like we’re starting from scratch again.
Sometimes when we get the newer raiders into our groups, we bang our heads against VG for 2 hours and still don’t get him down. I get the frustration of the more experienced raiders (“we’ve taken down VG before, he’s not that hard!”) and I get the frustration of the newer raiders (“cut me some slack, I’ve not done this before/I don’t do this often”).
It’s hard for everyone involved. Burnout is a real risk in our guild right now. However, I don’t think they should introduce an easy mode of the raid that offers any sort of substantial reward. I’m in the camp of “training raids with 0 reward.”
That leads to:
Do you mean Story Mode? Nobody runs story mode more than once. It would not be worth them making a version of the raid that people would only run once. Having a reasonable level of reward gives people a reason to run it multiple times. People suggesting “zero reward” are just people who don’t want the mode to exist in the first place.
I’d like to see “easy mode” (and when I say easy, I mean raids rebalanced for however many is in your party) raids simply for training. If people really really need a reward beyond getting skilled enough to do the “real” raid, offer a shard per attempt. The ideal, for me, is to make an environment that is friendly to teaching and practice. As it stands now, if myself or anyone else wants to better themselves, they have to do so at the expense of a minimum of 9 other players. Having something like this would be really nice for those people who deal with the problem of “everyone is looking for experience, but I have none, so no one will take me, so I’ll never get the experience.”
I know this doesn’t match your particular problem, but it does offer you a (slow) way to work towards that armor you want. If, during those training raids, you do get to the point where you are ready for the “real” raids, you can hop right in with the experience you need.
However, I understand that this would take a lot of resources to produce (someone has to work on the coding & the back end, someone has to test, etc etc.) so I’m not holding my breath. I’m also not really expecting this to be a decent solution in your eyes either, since you seem to want something more rewarding than this, but less rewarding than regular raids. To me, that idea doesn’t provide any sort of incentive to get better… and I understand that not everyone wants to better themselves, but, in my opinion, I don’t think that mentality should be encouraged.
All of that said, you can get decent shards (slowly) if you bang your head against bosses each week. If you change perspective, tell yourself “I want to get shards and success doesn’t matter,” and join learner pug raids, you will accumulate them slowly. Been raiding since Spirit Vale released and have 500 now after all of our head banging.
Yes. Some people enjoy the situation you describe, failing over and over and over, but getting better each time, and eventually succeeding. That’s fine, if you enjoy that, knock yourself out, as many times as it takes to make you happy. I’ll wait. But not everyone is like that. Not everyone can enjoy that experience, not everyone feels that the catharsis of eventual victory is strong enough to make up for the annoyance of multiple failures. And that’s OK.
Different people are different, and different gameplay experiences benefit each of them. What makes you happy about raiding is not what would make everyone happy about raiding. It’s not that players like myself are just not giving your version a proper chance, and that if we did we would appreciate it as much as you do, it’s that different people are different, and we genuinely do not enjoy the same type of experiences that you do. For us, the lows are lower, and the highs are lower too, so it’s never worth it. NEVER.
& I totally sympathize with your point of view. I do. We’ve lost a fair amount of raiders because of this point of view, and its okay. Raids aren’t for them, currently, so they aren’t raiding (and are playing other games, honestly). For now, players like you and players who are trying to jump into raids with no experience suffer, but Anet currently has no plans for casual raids, nor 5 man raids (which would be closer to my suggestion for “easy” raids). Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48zlyd/im_mike_obrien_here_with_gw2_dev_team_ama/d0nzule?context=10000
So, with our current reality, you are left with a few choices:
1.) change the way you view raids and shard accruement (change “banging your head against a wall” to “get shards in any way possible and screw success”)
or
2.) don’t raid and wait to see if they implement easy mode raids someday
At this point, they have seen the suggestion for easy mode raids.
And since effort on the raid team’s part been mentioned several times in the thread… remember, Salvation’s Pass only had 5-6 people working on it for 4 months. That’s very few people for such a heavy workload. An easy mode raid may actually be as easy as “one guy working on it for a few hours,” but considering they have already discussed easy modes and have yet to put anyone on the task, I would guess that it is more difficult (or they just aren’t willing to sacrifice the necessary developer because they want him/her elsewhere).
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48zlyd/im_mike_obrien_here_with_gw2_dev_team_ama/d0nwad9?context=10000
Editing this in, because it hits home in regards to developer’s efforts: “With all due respect, unless you’re a developer for GW2 you are not qualified to make a statement about the time needed, difficulty involved, or feasibility of such a feature.”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Suggestion-Difficulty-settings/page/2#post6042466
(edited by Scrribble.7496)
Raids have like 5 developers working on them. They said so as much in an AMA. The lack of casual content is not because of raids.
I’m not sure this is accurate. It may be that raids have a permanent staff of five people, five who’s job it is to work on raids all day, every day, but I have to believe that they borrow people from the “staff pool” to create content as well, environment modelers, artists designing gear that only drops in raids, creature creators, effect programmers, etc. If so, they would be taking those staffers’ time away from other potential activities.
If they truly are the work of only five people, start to finish, then these are clearly the best five people to work at ANet, and their talents could be spend accomplishing similarly incredible feats elsewhere in the game.
Of course – I expected as much. Even if they dedicated 1 person to Raids – you people would still claim they should use that one person somewhere else.
The “this should not be a thing because I don’t like it” never ends..
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Wildstar have recently announced that they’re letting staff go and are canceling their plans to expand into the Chinese market citing Wildstar’s performance since launch.
This is interesting in relation to Guild Wars 2 because Wildstar was built around the concept of hardcore raiding as its endgame and has experienced nothing but problems because of it. Wildstar started out as a buy and sub game but quickly converted to a free to play model once its playerbase started to collapse. This is because while a vocal contingent of players insisted that hardcore raiding was the best thing ever and the game was designed around that, the reality is that not only was it not enough to carry the game, but the difficulty itself drove players away.
Considering that GW2 and Wildstar are both made by NCSoft subsidiaries it’s highly unlikely that Anet were unaware of what was happening with Wildstar but decided to not only push ahead with raids but coupled them directly into the core story arc so you either have to raid or miss out on core game story unless you really like watching Youtube videos of other people playing the game. The entire situation here just strikes me as curious.
Do you think that Anet made the right call here? Either in regards to the development of raids at all or by tying them in so closely to the core story arc? I’d like to hear your thoughts.
Making that comparison isn’t fair. Wildstar didn’t fail JUST because it had raids. it failed for an array of reasons.
1. Sub model which while was revoked but still killed off many of its original interest and later original players.
2. Bugged mid game. An unacceptable amount of mid level to max level quests were broken.
3. Complicated Grindy attunement process. Yes this has to do with raids but anet decided to not do attunement all together.
4. Run of the mill quest system.
5. Other game types were broken. pvp and such.
You are oversimplifying the situation to fit your narrative. Just because a game failed that focused on raiding doesn’t mean that raiding is now an unattractive game type in today’s gaming climate.
It’s really tiring to see so many people trying to kill off a game type that many people have been asking for since this games inception. Just because it isn’t your cup of tea doesn’t mean it isn’t worthwhile. Yes it’s true that a small proportion of players will do raids but it’s also true that anets raid team is small with 5-10 devs working on it (unless your calling anet liars which if that is the case I’m not sure how a discussion on this can be had).
There has been 3 years of what most people will call casual friendly features, game types, and content added to guild wars 2. Now that certain players get a small amount of attention certain players lose their sensibilities.
Finally, I would like to say that I am not a hardcore player before I get accused of being an elitist kitten . I’ve never been in a raid and I don’t plan to.
I don’t think we need easy mode raiding.
I find the most difficult challenge in raids is organizing the party. Finding 10 people who know the fight and can play at the same time.
I don’t have a set group of people I raid with. I always form pug groups. My pug groups can consistently beat the wing 1 bosses.
I’ve yet to beat wing 2 in a pug. It’ll happen eventually. People don’t really know the fight, and I’m still experimenting to find optimal compositions.
I really think it is an experience issue. Learn the fight. The fights are hard when you have 10 new people. But it’s perfect when everyone knows what to do.