Guild Wars 2

I don’t like the DBL but I voted to keep it. Too much dislike of the DBL is people parroting and pitchfork mobbing and I will not partake in that. If that means cutting off my nose to spite my face so be it.

Why don’t you just stay in bed all day instead? That will take care of everything. You will never have to be exposed to anything that may offend you if you do that.

Astralporing.1957:

You’re right, they have made a mistake. Notice however how that mistake didn’t really negatively impact Fractal participation at all. If anything, it was the opposite.

You mean in the long term? Yah when they fixed their mistake it was ok. But it took them 5-6 months. All I’m saying, is that people with near zero experience in raid are launching bad idea left and right about magnetite shard. Idea that would be a mistake and would make pugging near impossible for normal raid. If they can pull easy mode off with a good reward balance that won’t hurt the current raid and will instead expand the community by including people that don’t presently raid, then I’m all for it.

All I saying is that people have legitimate reason to don’t want to try or at least be afraid of the possible consequences. There is a lot more ways to screw this up and to succeed.

Ohoni.6057:

Some people claim that they enjoy challenging content. Personally I don’t get it, and apparently neither do you, but so long as those people exist, there will always be people who will do the harder version “because it’s there.”

Oh man, you are so good at that. Making people wanting to stop talking to you.

Same argument, same cast of characters.

Let’s put aside that the original topic, getting rid of enrage timers, has already been addressed. The general consensus is that the timer is generally not the limiting factor for most groups.

So we’re back to easy mode raids, and endless quote sniping.

Apologies for sounding dismissive, but we’ve had this argument several times over. The easy mode raiders can’t stand that a small portion of the game is hard. Despite that there is plenty of easy and medium tier content — open world, world bosses, map events, dungeons, fractals.

Still really haven’t heard a coherent argument against this. All I get is “I must be able to do all the content at my skill level.”

This thread has run its course. Sign me up for locking it.

Ohoni.6057:

maybe you should just queue in with friends and have fun

It’s impossible to have fun, it’s PvP. PvP is about grinding your way through the queues until you get the wings. The only way PvP could be fun is if you could get it all taken care of in a few minutes so you’d have more time to do other things.

maybe you should get the fractal wings instead since you hate pvp.

I am an experienced casual player. 13K APs, 950 WVW rank, Closer to the Stars, done dungeons, raids, crafted ascended gear etc, etc. I’ve read quite a few honest postings about frustrations with HOT, and the trend in responses has been to respond to the OP by saying “learn to play better” or “I did it just fine, there is something the matter with you.”

I personally find HOT uninviting as a solo PVE player. It lacks the difficulty progression structure present in most games. It demands group (zerg) participation for individual rewards. It requires the development of mobility masteries to effectively access map areas efficiently. It loads the player with an ocean of inventory filling currencies or keys. It creates an unprecedented level of grind for goals.

I’ve completed the HOT personal story with a rev, and moved partially through with 4 other characters.

I’ve completed the new specializations with all classes. I find them fun and interesting additions to the game (imo the best part of the expansion) – getting HOT HPs pretty annoying of course. I must admit, I turned in some WVW credits to unlock some HOT HPs.

I was really looking forward to HOT, but am truly ambivalent about the expansion maps at this point – even with the nerfs.

I find myself now checking in, hitting the daily and getting out.

Pretty sure I won’t buy another GW2 expansion – especially if it follows the map design and skill progression structure HOT model. It’s a shame – I am a long time dedicated GW player – sorry to see the franchise pick this path.

My core point is, telling an OP that is frustrated with HOT to “L2P” or “I did it, what is the matter with you?” is missing the mark. There are authentic design departures here, and they are not friendly to the casual player.

sorry for your loss

As above, please make one for them.

Man, if you’re not open for suggestions and criticism, why are you even here?

This reminds me of the good old times on the sports ground when we were playing soccer and all the worse players wanted to play with us and we denied it. Holy sh_it, it was always fun if one of them got angry and started to shout insults at us. There has always been one of us who could run faster than those individuals.

The complaints are a joke, sry to say but it’s true. You got enough hints to avoid the requirements from players in this thread/forum. It is like dungeon running was at it’s peak: Build your own frickin group! You have the technology. I bet most of the ranting players are the ones that need to be carried like I can see it every day in dungeons now after this patch and in fractals. The bearbows & greatsword mesmers are still alive going for higher fractals today and they all think they are performing well.
I’ve seen enough players calling for raids and inside they couldn’t even manage to do one important thing like moving their char onto the right places, take over a green circle spot or just avoid being hit at melee range to downstate on vale guard when there was a tank having the aggro.
Just a side note: I helped a friend levelling 12 fractals these days and everytime we finished one he was talking about how well the group has played and that there were some awesome group synergies. The whole run he was quite underperforming (don’t have to mention but: greatsword mesmer) but he didn’t know it due to obvious reasons because if you are bad, you won’t recognize it often. Well you actually can’t because you don’t know how it feels to be good.

Appearance and reality – appearance and reality, that’s all need to be said in the end!

Every player I met that wanted to get in touch with serious raiding has made it. It reminds me of my loved german fellows instead of taking action and work for the success we go deep down into the basement and rant around.

Hypairion.9210:

The last topic on this subject was closed because all the protagonists were saying the same arguments over and over…since it will be the same here, and since no new argument will be made, can a mod lock this topic ?
Thx in advance.

Yes please.

The last topic on this subject was closed because all the protagonists were saying the same arguments over and over…since it will be the same here, and since no new argument will be made, can a mod lock this topic ?
Thx in advance.

You can mix them across the 3 categories, giving you a total of 12 options, and there’s generally 2 easy ones in both PvE and WvW giving you 4 easy ones where you only need 3.

I am fine with Anet considering the idea of easy mode raids…But if they ever find a good balance for implementing it, people should not be able to craft a legendary armor or complete the collections tied to raids by running easy mode

I think raids good to interests new players, but :
- they shouldnt focus on them over dungeons and other kind of “casual” contents, because the majority of the players arent hardcore gamers, especially on this game.
- they should have balanced classes. If healer is required we should have more options than druid for that role. Some classes are “too much” usefull while others are useless. A true raiding game cannot accept that.

STIHL.2489:

IndigoSundown.5419:

STIHL.2489:

IndigoSundown.5419:

STIHL.2489:

You respond to my question with a Question?

Well, when you have an answer, I’ll be glad to listen to it.

Nice to see you only read the first sentence. Perhaps read the rest.

The rest of your post did nothing to address the actual question either. So, not to be rude, but when you can answer the question, I’ll listen.

So, it’s that way.

I ask a question, you answer it. It’s the way every discussion goes.

The only time this becomes a problem, is if you can’t actually answer the question.

Oh, wait, I can post numbers. At one point, there was the by now well-known post about WoW raids (back before LFR) being utilized by ~5% of the population. At least that’s the number I see raid haters post a lot. WOW’s high-water mark was 12M. 12M x .05 = 600,000 players. Subs are $15 per. $9M a month. Subtract half of that for reasons, like not all players paid the full sub (I’m being generous). $4.5M ultra-conservative estimate. That definitely helped sustain the game (remember, “helped” means “contributed to,” not, “was the mainstay of.”)

So, you got any numbers whatsoever to back up your assertion?

Numbers? Oh ok, I have over 6 million copies of this game sold, before it had raids in it, and the fact that WoW Lost 4 Million Subscribers during the time when GW2 launched.

That means, people, by the millions would gladly leave a game with Raids, to play a game without them.

Do you have anything even remotely close to that?

I think this is probably the most egregious failure to recognize correlation vs causation that I have ever seen.

WoW has raids and GW2 didn’t have raids, and WoW lost people so clearly this is because people were driven away by raids.

wat

There are so many other more powerful factors here. How about WoW being ancient and boring combat? How about WoW having ancient and boring quest archetypes, confrontational node gathering and kill stealing and aging graphics and a changing consumer base?

You’re just cherry picking 2 completely unrelated pieces of information, drawing lines between them and then claiming a great success! I think this method of fallacious arguing was popularized by Rush Limbaugh and his infamous chalkboard. You would be wise not to emulate it.

Diva.1476:

CAN I GET A REPLY ON THIS?

Sure! Hi!

STIHL.2489:

IndigoSundown.5419:

People who prefer harder instanced content have waited a lot longer for not as much.

Excuse me, but to say you wait for raids would be a misnomer, as you were never promised them, in fact the decision to put them in was a very recent one, so you could not in any way have be waiting for them. You would have slacked your thirst for harder instance content on fractals and higher tier dungeons, Arah, HotW, Atherpath, TA, not to mention the increased difficulty of Shatter, Teq, and the added Triple Trouble World Boss, Etc. So, you have not been waiting at all for hard content.

So… When was the last time Anet added a new fractal? A new dungeon path? Open world PvE should get new stuff regularly but instanced should get nothing new, ever? Isn’t that what those complaining about the content drought want — something new? If you expect those players to play 1.5 to 3.5 year old content and be happy, then why can’t you play a lot more 7 month to 3.5 year old content and be happy?

Open world just got a new region in the XPac. You waited a whole nine months for it. The last new dungeon path was added nearly three years ago and the rewards in dungeons were reduced. Fractals has seen a new path more recently that that, but the gap is wider than it is for open PvE.

And yes, I know that raids were not promised until last year. That does not change the fact that the game was sold originally with the idea that explorable dungeons would be the game’s raid equivalent. People who bought the game primarily for that type of content had every expectation they would see new stuff, too.

For the record, I did not say that I waited. I said they did. I don’t raid. I don’t even dungeon anymore.

I recognize that people play a lot and burn through content quickly. I recognize that people want something new. However, if you want the game to prosper, it needs to attract and hold multiple demographics. That means ANet has to put things in for those different tastes. Raids did nothing for GW2 other than give a lot of people a reason to continue to play. That’s good for the longevity of the game.

Raids did not lead to the current perceived content “drought.” You want a scapegoat? Ask why ANet has likely spent thousands of dev hours reinventing systems over and over. Ask how many dev hours it took/will take to make adjustments to make HoT more casual-friendly. Ask why they went from Living World, which had regular updates, to XPacs. Ask why their code and/or systems are such that it would take, literally, years to craft L. journeys for 12 more weapons. Ask why new story episodes require such a long lead time.

Rednik.3809:

And its not about believing or not. As I said, its all about pure facts. We getting raid content and we not getting other content. We getting information about Anet happy with locking exclusive types of items behind raids and NO word about adding anything else for anyone else.

It’s literally “Eat raid or gtfo. What, you don’t like raids or like something else? Too bad, because you not getting anything else. Oh, and we plan to add more raid content, hope you like raids.”

Your post is not facts, it’s hyperbole and impatience. You want facts? OK, here they are.

In the last 7 months:

Raids

• 6 bosses; some trash
• Some rewards, but the big one isn’t here yet

Other PvE

• 4 maps (OK, maybe 3.5 if running around DS is not your thing)
• Each contains a meta cycle, so 4 of those
• Each map contains several boss encounters, VB alone has 5
• Exploration objectives and Easter eggs
• Other events
• Multiple armor and weapon sets
• Legendary journeys for Precursors V. 1.0
• Two festivals
• Shatterer revamp
• Gliding in core Tyria
• Mastery system, which is mostly open PvE stuff

WvW

• 1 new map, triplicated (which was at least a partial disaster)

Going forward:

Raids

• 1 new wing, so 3 more bosses
• Maybe L. Armor will appear, maybe not

Other PvE

• April update (whatever it is)
• LS S3 (whenever it hits)
• July update, whatever it is
• HoT revamp, whatever it is, whenever it hits

People who prefer “other” PvE had to wait about 9 months for HoT. People who prefer harder instanced content have waited a lot longer for not as much.

Those are the facts. Your perspective amounts to, “We haven’t had any PvE content since HoT and raids got 2/3’s of what HoT was supposed to deliver.” You want to be angry that ANet is no longer churning out updates every few weeks? Blame them. You want to blame other players? Blame the ones who burned LS in effigy every time it was offered. For all I know, you were one of them.

Ohoni.6057:

@Ohoni You’re right that Anet could and has the capability to put legendary armor into other content as well. They also could make every player have dev commands to summon as much materials as we want to whenever we want to. It’s safe to assume they will never do such a thing.

Yes, and I’m not suggesting they should. Everything in moderation.

My point is, things are not the way they are because they MUST be that way. Everything is open to change. Sometimes a man must go to the mountain, but other times, it IS possible to bring the mountain to him, because the game is not bound to ironclad laws of physics and spacetime.

So no, players should not be able to use console commands to summon Legendary armor, it should take effort to earn it, but there’s no reason why that effort MUST take place inside a raid. There is no advantage to that. The developers can change that rule, and I hope that they do.

I feel like I’m repeating myself here. That’s how they created value to the legendary armor. There’s the advantage. You want it to get value some other way and I understand that but this works and there’s no reason to change it. You can acquire the value needed from other content via gold which you can turn into legendary armor by paying raiders the clears.

Ohoni.6057:

Except that it has 100% bearing that the Armor is not for you.

The only way to get said reward is to do said content. You refuse to do it ergo not for you.

Even if it was aesthetically the most pleasant thing since sliced bread, it still wouldn’t be for you, as you still would not be putting in the effort. How do we know this ? Because you actively refuse to put in the effort now and push for a mode that caters to your skill level instead. Meaning that the problem for you is the reward and the mode. You need something easier, because you are either incapable or unwilling.

But again, you’re pointing out that the content the reward is attached to is not for me, which we agree on, but that has no bearing on whether the armor itself is for me, which is entirely to do with the aesthetics. If it’s particularly ugly, like most CoF armor, then yeah, not really for me, but if it looks cool, then yeah, it’s as for me as for anyone, regardless of the method of unlocking it.

I really don’t understand. Ok you think the content is not for you, so hence the reward is not for you. That’s all. If you trully want the reward, then go for it. Even if you don’t like the content, having the reward would be nice for you and would compensate the time spent in raids. And if you really can’t bear raids, then it’s ok, you won"t have the reward. Not a big deal.

Btw, did you read what Dusk wrote? about why anet won’t put another way to have legendary armor because it’s a nice carrot to motivate people to go into raids. Because let’s not forget that raids are a succes, and a game mode supported by Anet. So they won’t do something to hurt and devalue it, like adding another way, easier way, to have legendary armor.

For those asking for the current legendary armor to be made more accessible, ANet will not be doing that (I can say this safely). The Forsaken Thicket legendary armor is a big component of encouraging players to get better at the game and tackle raids, and ANet recognizes that. That would be like making the PvP back piece legendary more accessible to PvP players who can’t progress past Emerald, which they simply won’t do in order to encourage devotion to the game mode.

randomguy.1283:

Wait are you saying they’re going to stop making raids after the third wing all the way until the next expansion? This is NOT what we were told and I’m very disappointed to hear this, but with the whole legendary weapons thing I guess I can’t say I’m completely surprised.

The plan has always been thus:

• One complete raid per expansion.
• Each raid contains three raid wings, each delivered within ~3 months of one-another.

I think it’s possible some people (yourself included) may have taken “a new raid wing delivered every 3 months” to mean that a second full raid would be coming with Heart of Thorns, but that is not the case to my knowledge.