Guild Wars 2

At least come up with a theory, it doesn’t even have to make any sense, like there was a red moon earlier this year and they are still blessed by that.

The standards of paranoia and lunacy on this forum is really slipping.

People who transfers should get its wvw rank at zero, they should start fresh in that server.

I actually think WvW is mostly fine outside of balance problems. Some changes would be nice, like merging servers and having fewer links and other stuff.

Balance wise though its awful, just plain awful. All of the powercreep that HoT brought still needs to be toned down, a lot. Resistance needs to either be flat out removed or heavily nerfed, with conditions being rebalanced around that. The amount of condi and boon spam needs to be reduced by a lot as well. Some skills still do too many things and need to be redesigned to have fewer effects.

In my opinion one of the core issues with combat is that there is too many effects and you can’t see clearly what’s happening, sometimes it just feels like you’re being hit by invisible random things.
Too many flashy effects if you ask me.

I’d love the idea and the overall hero thing, but I’ve got nightmares figuring how the AI would handle my builds…

Liewec.2896:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

A scientific explanation

exactly! (i’m familiar with that one too XD)
thats why i’m saying we should be able to wear what we want and not be disadvantaged!

this one is good too btw!

And then there’s this explanation of how you can be perfectly protected by nude armor.

The shiny part!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Mounts-merged/

Mounts are unnecessary with the maps that we have right now. There are waypoints, movement skills, and swiftness that players can take advantage of.

It is a really interesting topic, a very board topic.

Let’s start with the basic, the game population is diverse. It easily range from newbies, noobs, average joes, butterflies, hardcores, elitists and so on. Many many types of people are playing the game.

Now OP is saying 3rd party DPS meter promotes hostility while giving examples of it. On the topic of that, I do agree it does promote hostility by bringing out alt ego but I wouldn’t say it does in a majority scale.

We have many types of people playing the game and I would say that the dps meter itself is merely a tool. It really depends on the user on how it is used, how it can affect the user on his or her attitudes, mentalities, behaviors and personalities.

I would say that some people can and will use dps meter as a pretense to be hostile or incite hostility but not in a obvious way. I think it is more effective to discuss what is acceptable and not so acceptable hostility than to argue for a yes or no answer if dps meter will promote hostility.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Seems there are people who want others to play their way. Whether its the DPS elitists or the DPS meter haters – both are demanding that the ‘other guy’ is doing it wrong.

Well said.

ArchonWing.9480:

I am …befuddled that people knowingly join parties that are prone to this kind of thing and do so repeatedly.

It’s human nature to keep doing the same thing over and over and over again while expecting different results.

Make a LFG run that says “Casual Run— No DPS meter or Kick.” You’ll get takers for sure, given the thread’s responses.

Honestly, I am rather befuddled that people knowingly join parties that are prone to this kind of thing and do so repeatedly. You’re not going to get along with those people no matter what.

I have seen people use dps meters in WvW; of which I just go “cute tool, kid”

And beyond the practical issues. I mean, it does serve legitimate purposes. Why not remove chat just because people might use it to offend other people?

Seems there are people who want others to play their way. Whether its the DPS elitists or the DPS meter haters – both are demanding that the ‘other guy’ is doing it wrong.

As has been said. If you don’t like it, don’t do it and start your own group. If you somehow end up in a group you don’t want to be in, kindly say I’m outta here and move on.

At the core, all dps meters do is save people the trouble of parsing through the combat log so I don’t really buy this idea of measuring metrics being a new frontier of elitism. I’ll admit that it can be misused by people with poor attitudes but that’s no different to AP elitism which has largely fallen away. Just that dps meters provide something tangible to be elitist over. On the other hand, features like buff uptime on BGDM are an absolute godsend for support classes as giving them raw data about their performance since a Druid or Chronomancer gets much less feedback from damage numbers than a Tempest would. By giving the community access to instant feedback regarding their performance, I’d argue the proliferation of dps meters have increased the general skill of the player base and given many people a necessary sobering of what they actually contribute to the group. This has given rise to many optional safe builds being consciously acceptable due to easier rotations or extra utility even if the damage ceiling is lower. Power Engineer, Hammer Guardian, Magi Druid, Minstrel Chronomancer, etc.

It also gives room for theorycrafters to test their ideas and gain substantive feedback on how successful they are outside of the DPS Golem. GS Condi Reaper, Condi Daredevil, Condi Ranger, etc may not have been considered good builds without dps meters to conclusively prove their usefulness in live situations. So dps meters have contributed to build diversity in the high end pve meta.

Because of those reasons and the simple fact that it is a tool for measuring performance and self improvement, I think the good outweighs the bad.

Ni In.6578:

Can’t tank below CD, so don’t worry about it.

LOL good one.

I don’t expect one-up-one-down to be a cure-all but it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

I have to preface this: I dislike all 1v1v1 map designs they all end up roughly the same effective playable layout: triangle or donut (actually doughnut).

On principal, the OP suggested to remove the mechanics that make this particular map unique and baseline for conveniences. Normally, I am against this and would say no.

BUT…ANET chose the home borderland layout (i.e. supposedly to enable a 1v2 ish scenarios) they’re doomed when it comes to adding/removing unique mechanics. Mainly because the home borderland layout is replicated onto potentially 3 maps instead of 1 for the sake of balance. These maps are not equilateral making the impact of special mechanics disrupt the balance between all 3.

Had they abandoned the home borderland idea, and went with equilateral maps (or just 1v1) it’d be much easier for me to be against removing game mechanics. Since they didn’t. I don’t care either way.

How about a prison tier? Players who act toxic towards others get moved there, to one of three random prison planets.

We’d have to figure out a way to get out of prison…

Whole new meta game…

Sly.9518:

Zelanard.5806:

How do you have a hard time managing your inventory when you can empty it by clicking 4 times?…
1: Right click salvage kit.
2: Click “salvalge all xxx”.
3: Click on the inventory options.
4: Click on deposit all materials.
BAM! Your inventory is cleaned… It takes less than 10 seconds…

You are under the assumption that players aren’t lazy……

Nope… I’m just under the assumption that people who write complaint’s like this just don’t know about the game’s basic functions…
Thinking that it cannot be laziness, is a simple logical conclusion: If he were that lazy, he would be too lazy to bother writing on the forum too… That would be far too much work in comparison xD

Zelanard.5806:

How do you have a hard time managing your inventory when you can empty it by clicking 4 times?…
1: Right click salvage kit.
2: Click “salvalge all xxx”.
3: Click on the inventory options.
4: Click on deposit all materials.
BAM! Your inventory is cleaned… It takes less than 10 seconds…

You are under the assumption that players aren’t lazy……

I’d prefer to receive a kick based on an accurate display of my underperformance rather than based on a guess made by the squad leader or anyone else in love with pointing fingers at anyone but themselves.
Those with the lowest amount of LI or AP should also be happy about said addition to the game. They used to received all the blame most of the time. People love and have always loved playing the blame game.
Players have always been blamed for underperforming with boons or healing and even DPS when they were too busy with ressing to do anything else. That is nothing new and certainly didn’t start with the addition of DPS meters.

I for one love the meters. Many seem to forget that these tools do not only provide information on your damage but also boon uptime, healing, ressing and a lot of other interesting information.
We are so quick to forget that meters did their part to encourage the use of different DPS builds other than the complex tempest rotations. People finally realized the difference in damage uptime between a golem test and the actual raid fight.

And most of all, nobody can make you use a tool you do not like. Nobody forces you to join a party which requires said tool. Nobody forces you to use any build or any gear. Nobody says you can’t make your own group and set whichever requirements you see fit. You are free to do so.
However, don’t push your own views on DPS meters on people who choose to use them and set them as a requirement for their own party then. Freedom needs to go both ways if it is supposed to mean anything.

I might be the only one, but it seems to me that this is another topic that people like to use as an excuse for whatever reason they were removed from a group. Not that there aren’t a cases like that.
There are always two sides to every story. It reminds me a lot of some posts we used to see. People complaining about elitists who seem to have kicked them for no reason at all. About the toxicity of others and never their own.
All though usually, most of us agreed with the party’s decision when we found out more about that person’s behaviour.

I’ll try to set some baseline for myself.

What are the factors that come into play when I try to estimate the impact of dps-meters on the game?

- What is my goal when I play the game?

This depends on my mood or my current goals. When I join a Tequatl event, I just want to have fun. I don’t do it for the weapon hoard, I just like hanging out there, and this means being on the map 25 minutes before he spawns and then taking him down. I don’t mind just standing there chatting for that time, or going through the achievements list to see what I can do next. Joining an organized Triple Trouble event is similar, and takes more time. At these things, I don’t care how much dps anyone deals, just join and learn the mechanics and listen to the commanders and have fun.

When I do a fractal for an achievement, or for other rewards, it’s different. I want to get it done in an efficient way. Most of them you can do without perfection. The Pareto principle works here, as in so many other areas. If you have one or two people who know their kitten, it’s fine. There are some fractals though that require everybody to know what he/she is doing. And as far as I can tell, that goes for raids as well.

- How do my actions affect others?

Someone here said that requiring a dps meter affects the players in a negative way. Guess what, being ignorant does the same. It does affect your team if you come to a party that wants to get stuff done without being well-prepared. Even if your cyclists team consists of hobbyists, you cannot/shouldn’t join a team that’s cycling faster than you. In cyclist events, there are usually different teams advertised. They state their average speed and the distance. For example, there’s a team that does 25km/h average, and there’s a team that does 30km/h. You don’t join the fast team if you cannot keep up with them. Nobody would call it toxic behaviour if you joined the fast team and can’t do the 30km/h average and they asked you to switch over to the slower team or get left behind. You don’t expect them to cycle slower because you pretended to fit in. Your lower performance would affect the team negatively. There might be even greater rewards for the specialists team at the end of the race, as it it for higher tier fractals, and raids.

In the cyclists example it is obvious who can’t keep up with the others, in sports, it’s usually quite obvious how people perform. You don’t need a speed meter to see who can’t keep up. And in almost all sports, you pick your group. You start at the bottom and work your way up if you can and want. You can of course stay in the hobbyist league, and that’s totally fine. Enjoy your beer in the breaks of the game. If you are good and want to be part of the winning team, playing at higher levels, get better rewards, you don’t choose to join a pro team. You can’t just join a professional team. They choose you, and they decide how they measure if you are a good fit. In these circles, measuring performance is a given, because everybody is eager to become better at what they are doing.

Yes, you paid for the game and its content. But we all pay for the stadiums and the pro teams in sports, no matter if you even watch them playing or like them. They paid for the Open World content too, even if they only play PvP or do raids. Raids and high tier fractals are made for meta, it’s not elitism. If you can pick up random people and do raids, go ahead and do so. Anet wanted it to be the way it is. Only thing I disagree with is that this content is required to get legendary stuff, or to max your masteries.

So, look at what your goals are and how your actions affect others. Don’t call people toxic just because they don’t want to have a cyclist in their 30km/h team that can only do 25km/h. If you join them anyway, you spoil their experience, and they only have so much freetime per week to cycle.

DPS meters are bad if they are not used other then on yourself.

It makes the person with the dps meter a judge jury and often executioner… I was kicked for ressing ppl in a vg run, no problem with aggro, but I had a low DPS on my condi ranger cause I was pickup up for scrubs… And who get’s kicked? Me… Cause the dmg was low…

I do not need to be in idiot parties with ppl who drop like flies and nobody to res downed cause they fear for kicks… I got a whisper 40 minutes later, they disbanded cause noone was prepared to res… Cause the only person who did was kicked… well GG!

If you use DPS meters, use ’m as a tool. To improve. Low DPS mean nothing if you cannot explain where it comes from, if you know, you might be able to change it.
If someone only autoattacks yes you can ask to change or leave, but if someone has spikes of good DPS with down times allways check why.

Oh and whats good DPS? Good DPS gets the job done -together-. It’s not standing robotically typing your rotation and leaving the group to fend for themselves, that’s leeching.

people are reading too much into the tool. At the end of the day, it’s a tool. A hammer, a saw, a device, a mechanism, it doesn’t do more than tell you how good your dps is, how good your buff upkeep is, etc.
It just shows the number.
The problem is people’s attitude, and if people’s attitude are bad, they are bad, the presence of a mechanism won’t make them more bad than they already were. The people who are toxic now, were already toxic before the meters were allowed.

We need to adress the problem of society, not the tools.
Otherwise the hammers will get banned and the good people can’t build houses anymore

Daddicus.6128:

Sly.9518:

Again it is clear you were never the target audience for Raids, yet you want Raids to be changed because you don’t fit into the target audience, again you don’t have to group with the people running dps meters, you can even ask the group leader if they are even using Meters in the group before joining. Oh no but that’s logic.

If there is a “target audience” for raids, then why don’t they have a separate mastery track?

Because ANet did not plan Masteries with the idea that once all tracks had been maxed, XP would revert to a Spirit Shard reward on post-cap tick. They added that later, in response to player complaints, and once again either did not consider the ramifications for non-completionists, or because solutions that would either split Raid masteries from HOT ones — or allow XP to be allocated to a post-cap tick even if one had not finished all Mastery tracks were not trivial.

@ thread

Just what is hostility? Is it kicking people who join a group knowing they don’t meet the expectations of the people who started that group? Is it establishing requirements in the first place? Or is hostility rudeness and the use of pejoratives when telling people why they’re not welcome — or striking out at people who set requirements because someone thinks — and says — that that makes them horrible people?

My personal take is that setting and enforcing a requirement is neither hostile nor “toxic” (whatever that means). The whole point behind being able to join a group which has no requirements is to be able to complete content as one wants to. Well, the people who set requirements are doing that very thing.

Would it be nice if all groups just took everyone with no questions asked? Sure. It would also be nice if people who post requirements did not have to deal with people joining them and ignoring those requirements. Owning the game entitles one to attempt content. It does not mean others must accommodate you in doing so.

And to bring this back around to the topic, the meter is not at fault. The issues have been around long before the meter, and would not go away were the meter disallowed. The solution is obvious — if you don’t like the meter and the so-called elitist behavior you say it fosters, do what the so-called elitists do — start your own group. Say, “No meters, all welcome”. Then if people join and start talking meters, kick them. Why don’t people do this? It’s not convenient to do so.

On topic, I regularly avoid stomping people who are obviously new to fighting real people or the game mode. I’ve also pulled them aside for duels and to give them advice on how to play better.

We need new people to stay in wvw, and the early learning curve (and resulting frustration) can be harsh. I’m also more interested in better fights than whatever garbage they’ll drop if I kill them.

I have agree with the point that DPS meters aren’t the root cause, just the most recent way and possibly an objective way for those creating the hostility, to discriminate anybody who isn’t “leet” players, again in the mind of the openly hostile.

Use to be professions builds, AP, badges, game mode specific currency, whatever someone thinks is an indicator of a hardcore player from filthy casuals for particular game modes.

One of my first experiences with fractals, which I hadn’t bothered with for 4 years, was I started a LFG stating newbie looking to do some low level fractals was a player who proceeded to lecture me about gear and the fact I wasn’t the elite spec version of my professional and started guessing how my gear was likely specced wrong. Dude, I want to do a few low level fractals, not make a play style choice.

You just have to ignore these guys and find those who accept you for what you are playing. As long as you try to pull your own weight rather than sit in a corner and let everybody actually carry you rather than complaining that your DPS isn’t “acceptable” those kind of players should accept you. But constructive criticism is welcomed rather than the blind devotion to the qT or metabattle current spec as the one true way.

That sounds good but I’m afraid if they added condi and boon duration then they would lower the other stats and that would make me sad. :c

Idk, I’d rather go back to daily resets than get rid of auto upgrades. That way you won’t be stuck in crap match-ups for a whole extra 4 days looking at the T3 objectives.

There was Tocxicity and abuse before any meters ever existed and it was worse since it was based on arbitrary things, so prove that Dps meters brought Toxicity and Hostility into the game, you can’t because t was already here. So ty to say they cause it all you want it is not true.

Again dps meters aren’t the issue the toxicity and Hostility was in game well before dps meters were ever allowed in game. So explain that, and the toxicity and hostility from that was all on arbitrary stuff not actual quantifiable data