Guild Wars 2

> … rewards you with bandit crests that can be traded for a variety of rewards …

Oh, for kitten’s sake! Another kitten currency to tie up space in our inventory?

Either get the hell over this idea, or make the wallet work for every stupid-kitten new currency item you invent.

Gee, if only there was some kind of standardized currency usable the world over, that all major trading races could accept. Something based on a precious metal, say… something convenient to carry, like maybe… coins?

Sorry if I sound bitter, but COME ON! This is just getting more and more ridiculous.

I received a note stating that a post of mine had been moved (see below). In fact, the entire thread had been deleted. The person who made the ‘move’ also failed to update the boilerplate text to include the reason.

I don’t have a problem with moderators deleting entire threads or individual posts that violate rules and/or create divisiveness (as opposed to those that offer constructive, if heated, conversations about the game). But I do object to using generic language to describe what happened.

If you don’t want to tell us the reasons, then simplify the text to: “To promote a productive atmosphere in the forums, we deleted an entire thread (including a post you made). Our apologies for the necessary confusion and inconvenience that this might cause.” Skip the links & avoid implying that the mods are likely to have time to explain the details.

Here’s the message I received:

A moderator moved a message you posted to the forum ‘Trashcan’ with the reason:

The thread “Threads questioning or contesting the suspension or termination of a player’s game account” was removed from the forum due to “insert reason here”. All posts responding to it have been removed with it. Threads which violate the Forum Code of Conduct will be removed from the Guild Wars 2 Forums.

Follow the new thread here.

I’ve emboldened the parts of the generic message that I feel should be removed:

• No reason was inserted ‘here’ or elsewhere.
• There is no ‘new thread’ and so nothing to follow.
• There is little point in providing the name of the original thread, since again, there is no ‘new thread’ and no way to review the context of the moderator’s action.

Again, I’m not objecting to the action (deleting the thread). I am suggesting that the message be simplified, whenever a thread is removed for any reason.

I’ve been leveling several characters through the new progression and I can confirm that it feels very counter intuitive. Before, the story would slowly pull me through zones but since I get it in chunks now, I don’t have any direction to go through till every milestone.

On my main characters, I can clearly see the progression of those characters across the world based on their map completion as I typically don’t try to clear an entire zone when I visit new areas and it’s a very interesting feeling to see their journeys across Tyria through the hearts and points of interest they’ve seen and completed.

What makes this worse is when you hit x5 where you have no particular direction to go and it’s a strange leveling stop with nothing particular happening. Also, the fact your stats don’t really change till you hit this stat burst makes it a pain to try and tackle areas that are even slightly higher than your level to get those last bits of experience is much more difficult than it should be.

Adetsu.9843:

My first post on these forums

Welcome to the jungle!

Adetsu.9843:

My biggest issue is the level gating of story missions. there is simply too much downtime between story arcs.

Yes. I wish they’d filled in the gaps instead of making the gaps wider. There’s so much more that could have been added, to ENRICH the experience of the game’s players, new or old. Adventures with krewes, warbands, friends and family; lore to discover, people and places to see. These hypothetical adventures wouldn’t even have to share the same ‘people drifting against a watercolor background while chatting’ format as the existing story missions — text works for me! — just fill in the dang gaps! With something fun and adventurous and personal to make the world seem more (ahem) LIVING than the static hearts and clockwork events. Alas! We got metricized instead.

Opportunities…

Adetsu.9843:

Cheers!

Qapla’!

My first post on these forums
I’m a long time player and supporter of guild wars, been playing since release of guild wars 1. I played gw2 since release and recently tried to get back into it with a new guardian since my friends bought it for $10 during the weekend sale. I’m glad to see I’m not the only one disappointed with recent changes. My biggest issue is the level gating of story missions. there is simply too much downtime between story arcs. I enjoy exploring and such but not for 10 whole levels! the previous system flowed much more naturally, play story roam around for a bit, play story again. I also enjoyed playing missions underleveled as they were most challenging and fun that way. Now wayy too easy.
It’s basicalky too boring now, will have to abandon new character until they fix this somehow. I’m not only speaking as a veteran, my friends are bored and lost as to what to do as well. The game does nothing to grab your attention right at the start. You have to gain 10 levels before something interesting happens (I.e first story arc).
Please fix! I want to love the game lol
Cheers!

You don’t get stacks because the mobs don’t give exp. I wish they would change this as well but it is what it unfortunately.

They will not change loot dropping. They shouldn’t drop loot otherwise people would farm the story instances (obviously good ones with lots of risen) over and over.

Bump, how are gold farmers able to copy past 12+ messages in a row and not get hit by the system, when i cant even talk to random people in /say without getting a 2 hour supress

Another Patch Tuesday has come and gone without a fix to this ONE YEAR old bug.

…and in other news, buy more gems…

The Power Of Choice

Ashendale.2165:

But what I and other people have been advocating is the OPTION to chose which way you want to level up.

It would be better than throwing people away. As you said, the people that go may justify the people that it retains. I’m not a manager, but if I could effing easily retain both groups, would it not be the right approach to take?

That would indeed be a sensible approach, it’s all I’m really asking for, and if it had been considered and provided for when the changes were made, threads like this one and the (multiple) Trait Changes threads would be much, much shorter and a hell of a lot less acrimonious.

But that’s not what happened, so here we are.

For me, “here” is taking a break from GW2 (still my favorite game of all time, I should point out) except for the occasional log-in to grab a quick daily bag, maybe taking one of my level 80s out for a quick spin and checking for any news of substance about when we can expect changes to the character development experience.

So far, same old same old, and that’s not surprising, because these things do take time.

The Power Of One

In the meantime, I recommend that my fellow players not get caught up in an endless cycle of finger-pointing and recriminations. As easy as it is to fall into, it is ultimately less satisfying than doing other things, and frankly less productive than doing nothing at all.

ArenaNet has given us threads like these to offer our feedback. When we do, we speak only for ourselves, not millions of other players. Other players speak for themselves, mostly by voting with their feet rather than posting in forums, and how they spend their leisure time is entirely up to them, not us.

The developers of this fine game can see what all players are actually doing when they log in (or don’t log in) and don’t need the forums at all to know what players like and don’t like. The numbers speak clearly enough for themselves.

My hope is that they will lead ArenaNet to make better decisions about the Guild Wars 2 player experience in 2015 than they made in 2014.*

But that’s just me.

Your Mileage May Vary.

…

* In fairness, ArenaNet did make some excellent decisions in 2014; I just don’t think the trait changes and NPE were among them.

Astral Projections.7320:

Well, since we don’t know the numbers, it’s always possible that in spite of the veteran’s complaints about how it’s affecting them that it’s doing what it was intended to do, retain new players longer. That’s one possible reason why ANet hasn’t changed the NPE in spite of numerous posts by non new players.

Ok, fair enough.

But what I and other people have been advocating is the OPTION to chose which way you want to level up.

It would be better than throwing people away. As you said, the people that go may justify the people that it retains. I’m not a manager, but if I could effing easily retain both groups, would it not be the right approach to take?

Edit:

Vayne.8563:

Really this is what it’s all about. Are more new players staying than old players leaving over the NPE.

I think that people who hate it really hate it…but I think their feelings about it make them believe they’re greater in number than they are (just my opinion here). In other words they dislike it so much that they can’t conceive of that not being the most common reaction.

I don’t think most older players love it. I think most older players don’t really give it much thought one way or another (again my opinion).

But the real question has always been how the NPE affects the players that say came in on the $10 sale, again as compared to how many people will actually leave because of it.

You’re absolutely right, it may be a matter of perspective. They refuse to even let us see the numbers, over proving either faction right or wrong. Proving either faction right would either force them to take action and correct/add option, or demonstrate they don’t give a hoot about what old player-base may think or want.

Astral Projections.7320:

Well, since we don’t know the numbers, it’s always possible that in spite of the veteran’s complaints about how it’s affecting them that it’s doing what it was intended to do, retain new players longer. That’s one possible reason why ANet hasn’t changed the NPE in spite of numerous posts by non new players.

Really this is what it’s all about. Are more new players staying than old players leaving over the NPE.

I think that people who hate it really hate it…but I think their feelings about it make them believe they’re greater in number than they are (just my opinion here). In other words they dislike it so much that they can’t conceive of that not being the most common reaction.

I don’t think most older players love it. I think most older players don’t really give it much thought one way or another (again my opinion).

But the real question has always been how the NPE affects the players that say came in on the $10 sale, again as compared to how many people will actually leave because of it.

Well, since we don’t know the numbers, it’s always possible that in spite of the veteran’s complaints about how it’s affecting them that it’s doing what it was intended to do, retain new players longer. That’s one possible reason why ANet hasn’t changed the NPE in spite of numerous posts by non new players.

Really, NPE is such a destructive move to GW2 that sometimes I have a fleeting fantasy it’s a mole working on bringing GW2 down; then I shake my head and say to myself, “No, can’t be.”

At the same time, I do feel time is of essence. If ANet doesn’t do anything about NPE and some other things, another dev team will come along— Ideas such as dynamic event will be done; beautiful zones can be done; a better economy system can be done; and NPE won’t be there to kill immersion. It can end up too late for GW2 to claim a throne in being the “Iphone” of mmorpgs.

Exp sharing among players who hit a mob is already copied by LOTRO.

EQ came out in 1999. WoW 5 years later, in 2004. Once a model is known, it’s a lot easier to do another version of it. GW2 has been out since 2012. Even though its ideas were at the forefront, it won’t be hard for another game to copy the good parts and create new territory. If that should happen, I will still think fondly of Anet, who pioneered the future.

I guess I was sort of in love with ANet for the manifesto. Unfortunately that seems to be gone, lost somewhere between NPE and grinding.

Somehow I’m not too hopeful NPE will be erased. So, take care everyone. We can always keep on dreaming. :p (ok, for the people who disagree, change that to I can always keep on dreaming. :p)

My feedback:

- My biggest gripe is that t took away the charm of the starter zones by removing content. RIP golem chess :,(
- Introduced two friends to the game after the 75% sale. Explaining various game mechanics was insanely annoying when they were so limited. They could not even see half the things I saw on the map.
- Leveling new alts without tomes has become a grind. I need to be lvl60 to unlock master traits and 80 to unlock grandmasters? Man, that is some bull.
- And of course, story inconsistencies.

Thanks Shadow. I don’t really like to argue semantics, which Vayne seems to like to do.

Hopefully my post just prior to yours explains my view. To me, GW2 can be to mmorpgs what Iphone was to the cell phone industry.

NPE to me is just one of the things happening that is detrimental to the original Anet vision.

It’s not too late yet, but it will take a lot of work. Good luck to ANet.

Vayne.8563:

The NPE wasn’t made for people playing the game for two years.

That’s exactly what the complaints here have been about. The NPE wasn’t made for everyone. So why should everyone have to play it?

I suppose some people do like the NPE. Okay. I don’t want to take it away from them. But I don’t like it. While it does look largely the same when you hit 80, it’s still not the game I paid for. I want the option to have it back.

By the way, Vayne, I have to ask. Please don’t take this as antagonistic in any way. If we all had the option to play without the NPE, would you take it?

For me the worst part of the NPE is the trait system, according to Anet it should encourage new players to go to locations and explore or just buy the traits, but some of them are WvW which some of us dislike (what about the wvw players who doesn’t want to do pve stuff) some under broken events and some under level gating, the other option is to buy it, but 10 silver +2 skill point for a low adept trait, 50 silver and 5 skill points for the master trait, 1.5g and 10 skill point for grand master, 3g and 20 for the new one (under grand master). all of this sum up in a very pricey price tag that require a huge amount of grinding and prevent experimentation. one of the greatest points of the old trait system was the ability to have all traits for an affordable cost, does Anet really think that a new player can afford it?

I’d like to, once again, air my major issues with the NPE, and share how it continues to impact my gaming.

It introduced another power creep. In both progression CDI threads, one thing that was stated over and over again was that a power creep was unwanted. There were tons of suggestions for other systems of progression, but it was nearly unanimous that adding power imbalances to the game wasn’t a really fun option.

It takes things away in order to make leveling seem more rewarding when it sparingly doles them back out. Pushing early game progression to end-game isn’t an acceptable substitute for end game. And, frankly, it’s unnecessary, given the successes you’ve had in Dry Top and Silverwastes.

It was the final nail in the leveling coffin, for me. I just got a second character from level 1-80 since last April’s feature patch (first since the NPE), and I used at least 50 tomes to do it. I want to be able to play my characters, not grind to get to a level that I can. I really cannot emphasize enough how much of a selling point this was to me, when I bought the game.

You can say it only effects the first twenty levels until you’re blue in the face, but it’s effected way more than that, for me.

Vayne.8563:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Vayne.8563:

shadow.6174:

Yes, there was a patch that fixed several things. But a big part of it still feels wrong and needs some action. Even after that fixes the system still treats people as having low IQ, things are still dumb and non-sense, it still have too much hand-holding and too much restrictions where it was never needed.

The fix done feels something like when someone holds your hand to help you to cross the street, then you tell them that they are gripping your hand too much and all what they do is only lessen it a very little bit, but still holding it tight as if supposing you aren’t able enough to do it on your own.

But there are people with low IQs. You’re probably a smart guy and smart people don’t realize that most people are average. There’s this thread right now on reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2vqowu/new_player_with_some_questions/

This guy is level 15 and doesn’t know what to do. He just doesn’t. Now I’m not saying he’s not intelligent. I’m saying he could be quite smart, but he’s from other games that give you very clear breadcrumb trails. This game doesn’t.

So any help you can give players that aren’t as quick as you are isn’t a bad thing. Frustrated people do leave games.

These changes weren’t meant for you and an experienced player can travel through them very quickly.

That’s why I say that our feedback, saying that we shouldn’t be treated like we’re stupid..well sure, that’s what the most intelligent people would think.

How about we try to be a little more understanding to those that haven’t picked it up so easily.

From someone who advocates a lot about not every game is for everyone please explain why we need to cater to these people. This game was already one of the easiest to pick up and play MMOs on the market. If he can’t get it then I’m pretty sure MMOs aren’t his thing. There is no reason to dumb the game down for someone who most likely won’t be hanging around anyways. There was already a starter area for every race, why not just add to that so its a better tutorial.

We cater to people for the game to exist and continue. That’s why the average/lowest common denominator has always been catered to. Games that are aimed at only the highest percentage of the population tend to be ignored by the rest of the population..but MMOs today are too competitive to not try to get everyone they can get. You end up with a niche game, which is fine, but then it gets updated less, because it’s a niche game. It becomes a vicious circle.

I guarantee you that the games I’d like the most would end up going out of business. There must be a balance between getting enough new players across the gate to play the game and stay with it and catering to those who like the game for other reasons.

And you know, the NPE has tipped the balance a bit too much in their favor. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t agree with that.

But you know, having a bunch of people running around the open world, who never do dungeons or triple threat isn’t particularly negatively affecting my game. It is, however, helping to fund my game.

That’s why.

The only games I liked that went out of business was because they made changes to the core game, kind of like trait changes and the npe, rather than just release more content that the players were asking for. Of course most of those games eventually released some good content but it was too late and the game already had received its bad reputation and still had the changes in place that caused that bad reputation.

There is only one way to keep an MMO going so that a company can keep milking the players for money, and that is to keep churning out content. If you already have a game people like then you should not change it, you should add to it. Of course little QoL things could help also but the npe, traits, and megaserver are not little changes and really need more time spent on refining them or in the case of the npe rolling it back.

Vayne.8563:

I won’t be responding to you again, so have fun getting the last word.

This is the what, 4th time you’ve said that? And yet you keep coming back. Funny.

Still, since it’s so hard for you to stay on topic, that’s probably for the best.

The rest of your post was already responded to multiple times in the last several pages. You can read them, no need for me to repost it again.

Ashen.2907:

Had an option to toggle it off for vets been included this would be a different matter but, as it stands now, the only option to avoid it is to skip the early levels..

Not even that works completely…you’d still have to deal with dancing for the cows, the “stat slump” (at least until max level), and the “why can’t I see SPs/Vistas” questions, just to name a few.

Actually the NPE was made for new players and ceterans alike. Perhaps it was originally inspired by a desire for new player retention but a decision was made for it to target veterans as well.

Had an option to toggle it off for vets been included this would be a different matter but, as it stands now, the only option to avoid it is to skip the early levels..

Vayne.8563:

It seems to me you’re intentionally ignoring very valid points that have NOTHING to do with semantics. I’ll try again.

What valid points? You’ve said nearly literally nothing except “I disagree with you, so you’re wrong” and “I’m right because I say so” in every single post you’ve made.

You know, you could have just said from the start that you have nothing on topic to say, rather than force us to waste several posts debating over who said what.

Vayne.8563:

The NEW PLAYER experience seems to be accepted by at least some new players. How is that not on topic?

Already answered that twice:

HandOfKane.5409:

Well yes. I’m sure you can find someone, somewhere in the world of Tyria who loves the NPE. That’s true of pretty much anything you can think of.

And yet for every positive comment you can find, you can find about 6-7 negative ones. I believe that happened on two of the challenges you gave people yourself.

HandOfKane.5409:

Then the lowest common denominators can have their metaphorical pacifiers while the rest of us can level the old way.

It’s not rocket science.

And saying “the forum posters that disagree with me don’t know what they’re talking about!!!” whenever someone criticizes the NPE is not “on topic.” I believe that was the point shadow was making that flew right over your head.

Oh, and as of now it’s not “new player,” it’s “new character, as someone correctly pointed out.”

Vayne.8563:

Edit: And thank the heavens you’re not an ambassador for the game. In a short time you’ve managed to call those new players ignorant and apathetic. Perhaps you’d be happier if there were no new players.

Your mind reading skills need some work. Also you seem to be implying that every new player in the game is completely clueless about the NPE. Perhaps you should take your own advice.

Vayne.8563:

You can’t really be apathetic about something you don’t know exists. They’re new to the game and like the game. That means that NPE isn’t turning them off to the game. I’m not sure what definition of apathy you’re using but it sure don’t seem to fit.

Yes, people affected by the NPE have no idea what it is. That makes perfect sense.

Fine then. Ignorance or apathy <> agreement. Satisfied?

So when are you planning to actually post something on the topic at hand, rather than splitting hairs over semantics?

Cherine.3184:

Fine, hold some hands and show people how to play, but test it out first so it’s done/designed/implemented properly, and include an opt in/out

Yes, please, thank you.

It’s just want most of us want (at least what appears to be the case in this thread). Cater who wants to be catered, and leave the rest of us to play as it was.

Hmmm, where to start lol. NPE made me feel like I was 6 all over again with all that hand holding and all the flashies (too bad it didn’t take my cynicism and jadedness away too ;P).

So as I veteran player, I didn’t like it. And for a new player to GW2, I still had to explain some things. And that quest arrow was acting up too. Overall implementation is a bit clunky, with some seemingly missing info – I feel it could do with some more design work, maybe also some Usability testing by people that haven’t played MMO’s before (if that’s indeed their target audience)?

Ja, that quest arrow… It really doesn’t help when someone has min patience and gets lost easily when the arrow itself is confused.

Truth be told, I couldn’t take it anymore so used one of the birthday scrolls and just helped out when she died, got lost, or stuck lol – I also realised we’re going to have to grind areas out WoW style before moving forward. It’s limiting for me but fine if you never knew I guess. Mainly have to do it so you don’t get owned as a lvl 9 trying to kill 11’s or the like lol.

For the record, I kept my mouth shut and didn’t poison hahaha. The main thing is she’s enjoying herself which is great as it means I don’t have to ‘watch’ Sex in the City (again) ;D . I really did have to restrain myself though when she picked an Ele haha.

Still need to get to traits though, but will shush and cross that bridge when we get there.

EDIT: Regarding catering to the lowest common denominator… Fine, hold some hands and show people how to play, but test it out first so it’s done/designed/implemented properly, and include an opt in/out – that way you also don’t insult the people that know whats going on by treating everyone like they’ve never played a PC game before.

Vayne.8563:

But what I said is on track. There was a guy who came into this thread and said straight out that he read the thread and decided based on what you guys were saying that he isn’t even going to try or give the NPE a look. I told him I wouldn’t judge the entire game based on this thread, or even this and the trait thread.

Uhhh, no. Responding to anyone who criticizes the game with “well I don’t think so, so nyahh!” isn’t staying on track.

Vayne.8563:

I pointed out that a lot of new people who have tried this game have made positive posts about the game over all…which is true. There’s been a lot of positive comments from new people. The comments weren’t about the NPE. The comments were about the game being great. Obviously those people, if they were affected by the NPE don’t even know it.

Well yes. I’m sure you can find someone, somewhere in the world of Tyria who loves the NPE. That’s true of pretty much anything you can think of.

And yet for every positive comment you can find, you can find about 6-7 negative ones. I believe that happened on two of the challenges you gave people yourself.

Vayne.8563:

Not to mention the thousands, and yes there are thousands, of people to whom the NPE isn’t a big deal. I know this because it’s true for dozens of people in my guild and we’re not special snowflakes.

Even if we consider your unverifiable anecdotal evidence valid, somehow I doubt you’ve asked “thousands and thousands” of people what their opinion on the NPE is.

Vayne.8563:

If you think there’s something wrong with telling someone that you believe this reaction is overstated and he should make up his own mind I have nothing left to say to you at all.

Merely your opinion. But don’t worry, I think most of us already figured the last part out long before now.