Sidenote: I’ve seen it now on multiple threads, and I’m not really sure if people are trolling or just dense, but Rox is female. It isn’t a “bromance”.
I’ve had bromances with females before. It’s really not that out of the ordinary; any two-person friendship that gets deep enough without sparking a romance tends to veer into that territory, regardless of the sexes involved.
Did anyone notice that there are some tengu NPCs that should have been near the Wall in a camp, but all of the sudden are missing?
Do you mean that place downhill from the raptors, with a hill between it and the destroyers to the east?
To the best of my knowledge, that camp has always been irritating.I figured it’s just where the tengu NPCs in the area- the heart NPC and the scout- go to sleep when they’re done being NPCs for the day.
That’s actually a really interesting question. And it really depends on how the ritual works.
Does the ritual act as a mental reset button, restoring the subject to their pre-corrupted mindset? Or does it simply remove the magical sway the dragon holds over their minion’s will? If the former, there’s no telling what it would do to a destroyer- perhaps it wouldn’t work at all, or perhaps it would cause something completely unpredictable. If the latter, though, it wouldn’t matter that destroyers had never been alive. They would continue to operate, at whatever degree of sentience Primordus bestows upon them, but without Primordus’ drive to destroy. It’s almost impossible to say what tangible results that would produce- would they then become docile? Or would they still continue to rampage, our of instinct or habit? Would they be tameable? There’re so many possibilities, and if the devs get around to it they’ll be able to take their pick.
I’m going to go on record to reiterate that people are probably reading too much into the injector. We know that Scarlet’s was after the anti-toxin. The anti-toxin would’ve been obtained while inside the injector. Also, iirc, the different fluids inside the injector were different colors, implying that they were different chemicals that had to remain separate until it was time to inject them. It would make no sense for Scarlet to not take the injector, since that would require transferring those fluids from an already perfectly adequate receptacle into another, and there is no reason to believe the injector or the technology used in its making are at all remarkable.
You guys are saying that a supervillainess who has mastered teleportation and the hacking of clockwork robots would have been unable to grasp the complexities of a hypodermic needle. You do realize how ridiculous that sounds, right?
Sorry, this is rapidly becoming a pet peeve of mine. I know I’m overreacting, but… grr.
What bothers me about that explanation, though, is A.) The Pale Tree does not even try to explain her logic there, and B.) It doesn’t even try to account for the fact that the dragon shadow was the source of the nightmare hounds in the Dream.
@Aaron Ansari.1604:The difference between this and the gargoyles is that the gargoyles comment was in-game while this was via interview. While it’s possible that Jeff Grubb’s comment is just a case of giving additional not-story text and flavor to the world’s lore, it’s equally possible (perhaps more so because it’s not in-game) to be for an actual storytelling purpose.
See, I’d argue the opposite- since it’s not in the actual medium of the story but rather in a form whose sole purpose is to throw the fanbase a bone, it’s all the more likely to be fanhype material rather than storytelling.
I’m just having trouble assuming Scarlet grew a giant, sentient tower to create an airborne toxin for which there was a purifying technology already. Gas masks have been invented now, so regardless of how powerful the toxin gets, it’s useless when it doesn’t get inside the enemy. That coupled with the fact that her own researched focussed on the seeds, not on the toxin, makes me believe that the detective squad might be wrong on that part.
Who says it’s sentient? At this point it’s nothing but speculation that the Tower is of the same species as the Pale Tree.
The NPCs at this point all assume that she’s just using the place as a backdoor into the heart of Fort Marriner. I don’t know about that- it seems too simple, but on the other hand ANet showed that they don’t want the plot intermingling with WvW maps, and so are unlikely to include more there. But then again, if it’s just a staging ground what’s the point of the probes she has there? The interplay between the Living World story and ANet’s work to revitalize WvW for Season 2 and launch in China just muddies the waters too much for me to make any clear sense of it right now.
The dragon in the personal story tutorial is almost certainly Zaitan. The personal story is, essentially, you vs Zaitan and it will remain that way after the jungle dragon has come and gone.
Not necessarily. Just because it was part of that storyline doesn’t mean anything- there are quests, even arcs, in the personal story that focus on fighting other dragons, and none of the other tutorials had anything to do with Zhaitan- and the fact that the NPCs jumped to that conclusion actually surprised me. According to a surprisingly large amount of pre-launch material, the threat of the dragons as a whole casts a shadow into the Dream. Combine that with what that boss is named, and I have a case for claiming that our character’s Wyld Hunt is to fight against all of the dragons. Zhaitan was just the obvious first choice.
(and that would certainly not merit cryptic hints about nefarious agents).
Look at that recent disappointment with the gargoyles. Perfect example of a “cryptic hint” being dropped that meant… absolutely nothing whatsoever. This isn’t a story, it’s an MMORPG; the main purpose of teasers like that aren’t to drive a narrative, but rather to excite a fanbase. It’s just as likely that ANet has no plans for why the desertification occurred, or that it is indeed the work of an Elder Dragon, as it is that these “nefarious agents” will actually manifest- Jeff intentionally left it so vague that we cannot rule out anything at all right now.
If they stay true to their statements of changing the face of Tyria and rocking it to its core, I think it’s entirely pausible they destroy a large part of Lion’s Arch, if not all.
I’m not sure any MMO has done this -attacking and completely destroying the popular hub and safe/comfort zone of players- and with Anet’s history of sticking to building a not so conventional one, it’s possible.
Personally, I’d love to see this kind of content.
Perhaps this is too minor a quibble for the devs to care about, but the only objection I have is that will almost certainly wipe out background NPCs whose dialogue has not yet been properly recorded… but that, to me, is a HUGE problem, and even more so for LA then it would be for other cities. I’ve always been a huge fan of the little things ANet puts in, but so much of it falls through the cracks as it is, sometimes due to the way they implemented it (coughGARAcough), and sometimes due to player inattention. Removing any chance for it to be found down the road would be a tragedy.
Except, as I pointed out in another thread, she was taking action specifically against Lion’s Arch months before she had the equipment to even know rather there were significant ley lines beneath the city. Given the Lionguard’s policy of non-interference, and their failure to life a finger while she was operating in Gendarran and Bloodtide, it can’t be an issue of regional control- what she’s after is either the city, or at the least something on the site of the city that isn’t a ley line or mists portal.
the thing is the “artifact investigation” instance lets you investigate artifacts in any order. in the order i did, kasmeer and marjory were talking naturally about leylines and how they knew about leylines in lion’s arch far before we got to kiel’s report (where kiel completely bypasses the leyline part and assumes she blew the place up out of revenge/betrayal/something).
check the screenshots available on the other thread, they might shed some light. it definitely came off to me as “they already knew about it, it just never got discussed before so the players didn’t know”.
Marjory and Kasmeer did also say that they had already looked at it all, though. What sells it for me is that Marjory seems to have overlooked the ley line bit of the report until she took a second look while we were around, and that bit about how the Inquest discovered “new” information.
Anise and some mesmers-behind-the-scenes were the ones giving the Watchknights mesmer abilities.
Scarlet would need some mesmers to cloak her Twisted Clockwork minion. Which given she has stone holograms and whatever-powered-the-veil-around-the-Tower-of-Nightmares, I doubt she’d be unable to do.
Also, it’s Evon, not Ellen, who’s screaming about an imminent attack.
What Narcemus said, but I was also really let down when Evon’s dialogue didn’t change. Given that he was the one that saw it coming, I was hoping for some cutting variant of “I told you so.”
Here’s something that’s been bothering me- all that evidence, all of our conclusions, say that Scarlet has been preparing a strike against Lion’s Arch since Dragon Bash at the latest. But the tools she’s used to find the ley lines weren’t in place until Fractured, and if our character is right, didn’t find the ley lines under LA until just now. That means that the ley line can’t be why she’s attacking LA- but again, if our character is right, and everything is connected, they’ll still play into the attack. So the question of the day is: How could she use ley lines in an assault on Lion’s Arch? I have my own thought, but I’d like to see what you all think.
Aaron are you NA or EU? On NA we reds are in need of a nerf :P
NA. Thanks for being honest, but it was more our own fault. XD
Mass Effect set the last name for the character, completely ignored the first name that they chose for themselves, and still more then half the time you’re referred to as Commander. But I digress.
My characters have names. They have backstories, flexible ones, but history and personality nonetheless. I’ve invested in the customization we were offered. I cannot articulate how peeved I would be if ArenaNet kittened on that and assigned them names. That would be far, far, far worse than being called by a title which changes every fifteen levels or so anyway.
I think that few sentences from the LW instance need to be mentioned here:
- Lion’s Arch needs softening up first, so we infiltrate its halls of power and neuter its defenses from the inside
/Scarlet’s Hologram/- With Trin in place on the council, she could have weakened the city’s defenses from the inside. That plan backfired, but Trin escaped to the Mists to prepare for something.
/Marjory Delaqua/So Scarlet wanted to weaken defenses of the Lions Arch by putting some puppet in the council. Everyone thinks that Mai Trin was going to be that puppet. She was arrested, yet she escaped (important prisoner closed in the cage with easy access to it? whose decision was that?). What if Mai Trin was a scapegoat, to put Ellen Kiel on the seat?
- Now she has an kitten nal of advanced weapons and an air fleet to deliver them. No city is prepared to defend against an aerial attack. Not even Lion’s Arch.
/Kasmeer Meade/- Kiel’s been pushing to build up the air defenses around Lion’s Arch, but the rest of the Captain’s Council won’t get on board. They say Scarlet isn’t their problem – that she wouldn’t strike the Arch again so soon after Dragon Bash, or that they’ve already withstood one of her attacks and don’t need additional resources to withstand another.
/Marjory Delaqua/So Lion’s Arch is not prepared, even if they know about Scarlet’s plans of attacking the city. Ellen Kiel is not taking any actions even after telling her, that the probe under LA have turned green. Also Marjory sends a player letter after completing instance, that Lion’s Arch is not preparing for the defense (Ellen Kiel tells her, that it’s the whole council’s decision, not her, but did she talked with the council about it?).
Um… you’ve actually got that backwards. Kiel is doing everything she can, by her own word. It’s the rest of the Council that won’t lift a finger.
Unless of course you think Kiel is lying, in which case all I can do is facepalm and wait for the coming patches to lay that conspiracy theory to rest for good and all.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not expecting someone to step out of the woodwork and actually matter to my character… but if they did, I would not complain.
Just chiming in to add my praise. I thought the instance in the last patch was a vast improvement, but I still had some complaints. Nothing like that here. You even managed to make it fun to be called an idiot.
I am torn on EotM though. Beautiful zone, but red managed to grab and hold our keep very early on, so that’s flavored my perception. Still, that’s the most fun I’ve had falling to my death since the Maelstrom’s Bile vista!
I hate to put down this line of thought in it’s infancy, but the quote you are remembering was this: “Aside from the Living Story main characters, we’ll also be surprising you with interesting villains, one of whom will become your personal nemesis. Again, no spoilers allowed, so I can’t tell you more than that, but you’ll recognize this sassy character when you see…um, him/her/it.”
That doesn’t mean “that’s someone we know”; that means “that’s someone we can pigeonhole as the teased personal nemesis”.
Of course, beyond that aborted attempt right after Clockwork Chaos, the writers haven’t done much to make Scarlet personal…
The source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/living-story-evolution/
Phew. Took me a while but here is all the dialogue of the LS instance A Study in Scarlet on Imgur.
Merry theorycrafting. ;P
I’ll post my own thoughts later.
That’s awesome! Thanks!
I think the Priory dialogue is only there because it would be weird for the player character to NOT mention that they were a high ranking member of the priory.
Actually I find it kind of interesting that with Scarlet’s seeming obsession with learning from the greatest teachers in Tyria she’s never joined the orders >.>
She’s obsessed with learning, but only as a means to the ends of her own autonomy. That’s always been her true obsession, and all three orders have a firm chain of command.
the whole tegwen/carys thing makes me wonder just how much better the personal story would’ve been if it hadn’t been so fragmented…
Much better. I understand their desire to give players choices about what their character did, but if we had been able to do even half of the storylines for our race that we missed out on then it would all make more sense, have taken longer, and been a more fulfilling experience.
yeah, it’s kind of amusing just how much more structured the story feels if you actually play a sylvari. trahearne isn’t a random character they dump in, he’s a recurring character through your story, and that alone makes him far more bearable. it actually makes me wonder if the story wasn’t first written from a sylvari perspective >.>
Ahh but open the Hero panel and go to the Personal Story tab. All the other races have intricate descriptions of each story mission – Sylvari quite often just have one or two sentences, sort of suggesting that theirs were done last and in a bit of a rush.
But by contrast, the writing of the actual story arcs is much more polished than that of the charr or norn.
*Marjory, not Kasmeer, but the point stands.
To me, its their way of saying “whatever happened is possible without anything physical involved” and that “the machine doesn’t do anything special like sending the mind into the Eternal Alchemy/Mists” – in what it confirms is just simply “Ceara broke because of something mental-related”.
Actually, Vorpp said, and I quote verbatim “[Omadd’s] notes say its purpose was to shut down the mind’s security system and open it- like opening a door- to welcome in the truths of the Eternal Alchemy. But our minds are protected for a reason.” That sounds to me like it was something bigger than a mental breakdown- actually, it sounds a lot like the Voices of Koda: " the simple fact that their mind is always open to the Mists means that the Voice can become unstable. Only through the will of Koda does a Voice remain grounded."
EDIT: Also, at the end of each bit of evidence, the game makes you choose between three possible theories- but the NPCs will shoot you down if you pick the wrong one, and the game stops you from progressing until you get it right. For the isolation module, the right answer is “When Scarlet looked across the open threshold, she saw things. And something looked back.” One of the wrong ones was “The cube made her insane. Her vision was nothing more than her mind breaking.” If I understand correctly, that’s your stance on this, but not only Vorpp but the game itself refutes it.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
She could just be collecting a sample while she’s there to compare how the magic flow in the Mists compares to that of Tyria. Keep in mind that we haven’t a friggen clue what she wants with these ley lines yet, just that she’s willing to start a war for them.
I have. Didn’t get anything that acknowledged my order.
She also explains that the entire reason for her predicament is because of probes on that map. There’s a cluster of three under the center
“Old-fashioned Synergetics texts call them ley lines.” If I had to guess, I’d say Synergetics figured out they exist but never bothered to track them down, so technically the Inquest were the ones to prove it.
Just got into EotM. Taimi has confirmed the probes exist to find ley lines- specifically the biggest and strongest. Also, apparently Synergetics discovered them a long time back.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
Just to throw some fuel on the fire- when talking to Marjory, your character guesses that the change of color in the probe in Sanctum Harbor means it’s found what it’s looking for. Hopefully, that rules out an Elder Dragon… although ANet does want players to spread out, and nuking the hub would certainly accomplish that for a time.
Thoughts?
FIVE ancient races. Two to five touched by Nightmare- we don’t know that the unaccounted three haven’t been. The fifth dragon hasn’t shown up yet either, only Zhaitan, Kralkatorrik, Jormag, and Primordus have. 24 races with demonstrated capacity for language, of which five happen to be playable.
Yes, ANet does a lot of things by fives and sixes- numbers small enough to be easily kept track of, but large enough to provide a sense of variety. It’s a sweet spot. They also did a lot of things by threes back in GW1. In any event, as much as they use sixes, you only have three data points to back up your ratio theory, and the Nightmare Court one is very tenuous. Two might be more accurate… except you got the number of races wrong (I’m assuming you tried to account for the GL?). So that leaves you with one solid one, and one that’s quite a stretch.
So, long story short, that there are five and six of a lot of things is not a coincidence. That one among that number is occasionally going to turn on the others is.
You mean the old GuildMag interview? The exact wording was " This change has been attributed to the rise of the Elder Dragons, but that has not been confirmed, and there may be other nefarious agents at work."
They wouldn’t take root in it- at least not at first- but as long as it’s been sitting there you’d certainly expect it to be encrusted with lichen or moss, at the very least.
I don’t know where you get that starving awakens the Elder Dragons. It’s not the first time – I recall before seeing someone mention that the Great Destroyer was siphoning magic from Primordus to make him rise, but I don’t recall this being mentioned and said person wasn’t able to provide a source.
Edge of Destiny is the first place to spring to my mind, pgs 339 and 340: “I saw how they ate until there was nothing left to eat, and then fell, sated… three hundred years ago, the dragons’ bellies were empty, and their minds were awakening.” I also vaguely recall that bit about the Great Destroyer too… I believe it was from an old interview, the one that likened him to an alarm clock.
It’s point blank stated that the Elder Dragons were starved during Arah explorable – that’s the whole lore behind the Bloodstone and Glint hiding the races.
I thought so too, but I checked earlier, and it’s not. All that’s said is “When the Elder Dragons first awoke, they gathered the unspoiled magic in the world and locked it within a great artifact—the first bloodstone.” There’s nothing about how that affected the dragons, or how they responded. I think us players just took the leap from there, but it doesn’t necessarily mean we’re correct. Given the aforementioned quote from Glint, it almost sounds like the Elder Dragons just gave up looking and went back to sleep.
Thus the “Maguuma Wastes” is nothing more than the land reverting to its original form, with no more magic from the druids (whom mostly disappeared as early as a century before GW1) or the Bloodstone to feed it.
Others’ thoughts?
That’s interesting… I hadn’t thought of this before, but the Henge of Denravi is now, along with that river, the last significant body of water on the edge of the wastes… and the sight of a major concentration of druid husks, implied to still contain the dormant spirits of the druids, and known to still contain their power. I wonder if those druids are working to keep the spread of the wastes in check?
On a different note, and not so much an objection as simple curiosity- this theory is that the bloodstone is the cause of the rampant plant growth, but the GW1 description of Bloodstone Fen suggested that the Bloodstone was out of the ordinary because plants wouldn’t grow on it. How would you reconcile that with the theory?
Well, we have learned that that map may be inaccurate- a recent dev Q&A revealed that the globe it’s based off of only portrays the parts of the world that the Order of Whispers has knowledge of, and furthermore fills in the blanks with closeups of various areas they’re particularly interested in. I don’t know enough about how that texture was rendered into that square map to say what that means for it.
Correction:
The in-game globe is incorrect. This texture and the in-game globe actually do not line up at all. The texture is wrapped around the globe a couple times over.
That’s… what I said. I freely admitted that I didn’t know if the inaccuracy carried over.
Yes, but it’s also worth mentioning that since that video was posted a dev livestream said that the Mad Realm gargoyles have no connection to the Ascalonian gargoyles- they just thought that gargoyles would be a good Halloween prop.
And it’s still possible you have it right- we know so frustratingly little about the last cycle, including how long the dragons were awake for, and rather the dragons all went to sleep at the same time. I’m inclined to say “a very long time” and “no”, as those are the answers that best reconcile Glint’s line in EoD with what we learn in-game.
Which assumes the devs don’t simply play the “she was lying the whole time!” handwave again.
The bloodstone bit may well have been process of elimination. “Someone’s taken all our food, and the only fleshlings left that could do that are in the vicinity of x location.”
So how does Issormir fit into all of this?
Issormir is an ice wurm – also I’m not saying that all Wurms would be aligned to the dragon – just that there are some that have been corrupted. Wurms have been around in GW for far too long for them to all be dragon minions. But jungle wurms – not so much.
In GW1 we only had (generalising out of the different species by appearance) frost wurms, regular fleshy wurms, and sand wurms – No Jungle Wurms, despite our ability to explore through the Maguuma Jungle and the Tarnished Coast. So it’s quite possible that Jungle Wurms are corrupted regular Wurms?
Possible, yes, but it’s quite the stretch. Jungle wurms are distributed by biome, not territory, like Tyria’s natural creatures and unlike dragon minions. Furthermore, in most places jungle wurms live in close proximity to other creatures without corrupting them, again like other wurms and unlike dragon minions. The only thing really going for them is that they’re new and that the Nightmare Court uses them, but I don’t see anyone jumping to say spiders or plated behemoths are dragon minions.
We really haven’t the foggiest. From an out-of-game perspective, the devs want to keep the rest of Tyria a perfectly blank slate so as to not restrict future devs. From an in-game perspective, we can only know about places the current races have been, and besides humanity not many have gone beyond continental Tyria.
What we do know is this:
- There’s a northern ocean, and the inland sea on our map connects to it. The kodan lived there, but were driven away by icebrood, which would likely leave it as part of Jormag’s current territory.
- There are more charr lands east of the northern part of our map.
- The asura used to have great cities in the Depths, and theoretically the ruins are still there. The entirety of the Depths is usually presumed to be part of Primordus’ territory.
I figured Glint would’ve hidden the bloodstone along with the races.
Well, we have learned that that map may be inaccurate- a recent dev Q&A revealed that the globe it’s based off of only portrays the parts of the world that the Order of Whispers has knowledge of, and furthermore fills in the blanks with closeups of various areas they’re particularly interested in. I don’t know enough about how that texture was rendered into that square map to say what that means for it.
Sorry, V, this is going to sidetrack the thread more….
Just looked at Randall Greyston’s page on the wiki for an unrelated reason, and he calls the various high priests corrupted avatars of the gods. If the priests were stuck in their avatar forms, that would more than account for the not-quite-human bits, it isn’t implausible given that the various statues already set a precedent for Zhaitan repurposing divine magics, and it comes straight from the mouth of an NPC in perhaps one of the only places in the game where we’re meant to accept the NPCs as infallible. Altogether that makes a very strong case.
Anyway, back on topic… I’m of the party that doesn’t believe the scribbled lines have any meaning. I just cannot take a centaur-quaggan alliance as anything other than ANet poking fun at our mocking of their predictability. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the largos had had dealings with Orr, though- the cultures have similar naming conventions, and Sayeh was quite familiar with Orrian writing in Abaddon’s sunken cathedral… and a link between Abaddon and the largos wouldn’t surprise me either, given the degree of shared attributes. The mursaat, though, I don’t think would be involved- they were supposedly gone entirely from the world until just before GW1, and then the race was all but wiped out during that game.
I’d assume that the Elder races didn’t know where the dragons went, or if they did their descendents had forgotten by the time the humans showed up. By the little the Durmand Priory managed to piece together, it seems that by the end the four races that hadn’t fled or died were reduced to huddling in some corner of the world under Glint’s protection, which wouldn’t be conducive to reconnaissance into the heart of dragon territory, and as one of the scholars in the Priory laments, they didn’t leave much behind in the way of lasting records.
You do make a good point about the Bloodstone, though… I’m going to have to research that more.
Adapting is one thing. Contributing is another. They could be brought into the community, and so become a major race, but unlike the asura, or charr, or even humans or the Pale Tree, I don’t see them making any contributions to it as a whole.
While I wouldn’t mind there being Elder Dragons elsewhere, so long as ANet could keep making them unique, there is one, very compelling reason for Tyria being “special”, and that is the account of how the last rise ended- the seers concentrated all the magic remaining in the world into the Bloodstone, sealing it away and starving the dragons into submission. That means that near the end of the last rise, all of the dragons’ remaining food could be found in only one place, which by all indications was on the continent of Tyria, and so any of them that knew or could figure it out would have no choice but to congregate on Tyria, and if they starved to hibernation while searching the continent for it, it would account for their presence their today.
Been ignoring this thread, but got called out specifically on the consultant bit, so I’ll respond to that.
That bit of dialogue is very easy to miss- in fact, the level appears designed to ensure you miss it. To hear it, you have to ignore the portal dropping enemies right at the start and immediately take off hugging the right-hand wall.
Since the wiki doesn’t have it, here’s a thread with a screenshot of it (third post). All credit to Nilkemia, who is the entire reason I knew about this dialogue in the first place!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/fractured/Into-the-Thaumanova-Breach/first#post3270075