Guild Wars 2

Ezrael.6859:

Shelter’s blocking doesn’t seem to start right away however, many skills can interrupt through block, and the heal is at the end of the skill meaning you get no heal at all and a 30s cooldown.

At least with Breeze and Ether Renewal you’d get a few ticks of healing.

This is true, Basilisk venom with a flanking strike (ignores block) stops that in it’s tracks.

Cygnus.6903:

Adaneshade.2409:

I created a tanky venom share build that is absolute ridiculousness when you team up with a GS warrior. Talking locking D/D ele down so hard they don’t budge til they die.

And what does the ele’s teammate do?

I’m running a HK D/D build (WvW only), but not now lol. HK is not working as stated before.

Other then that, I won’t be changing too much. Apart from SR and SoS, I switch between blinding powder and shadowstep for my third utility. I guess it will be shadowstep more often. The extra second revealed after an attack is not that bad, although when facing a serious opponent it can make all the difference. I don’t use Basilisk, so that doesn’t affect me.

Edit: I don’t know why people abandon Shadow Arts as a trait line. Restealthing is still possible like it used to be, so healing in stealth is still almost as viable as it was, barring the extra second being revealed if you do attack.

Doesn’t matter, ele (or any bunker) gets flattened before chance to react. Since I’m S/D I prevent revives with daze :-P.

Authority.6145:

Adaneshade.2409:

I created a tanky venom share build that is absolute ridiculousness when you team up with a GS warrior. Talking locking D/D ele down so hard they don’t budge til they die.

If I wanted a full venom share build how would I go about it?

This is what I’m running atm. Almost as good 1v1 as my old dueling build (not quite but close) but also has insane group synergy.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.4|c.1c.h1e.8.1c.h8|5.1c.h1e|1c.9c.1c.9c.1c.9c.1c.9c.1c.9c.1c.9c|1c.64.1c.64.1c.64.1c.64.1c.64.1c.64|u48c.0.u49c.0.a5|54.7|59.5q.5r.5t.5u|e

I’ve tested the major traits, and the might, and lifesteal on venom hit both work for others in my party so i can provide an 8 stack of might for 20 seconds to my group and provide good support healing with the lifesteal.

Applying basilisk on inc, then popping devourer just as the stun is wearing while with a group of buddies can lock an entire 5-man down long enough to wipe them with cleave/aoe.

CrassBippy.4619:

no thats because pve players want HIGHER STATZZZZ so we keep getting more and more crit dmg and power… hence people die much faster

This, glass cannons make me lawl. They die so easily and all their “burst” isn’t capable of downing even a thief that’s built properly.

Orpheus.7284:

Adaneshade.2409:

Honestly, I’ve noticed no effect whatsoever on normal gameplay. If this is affecting you so badly, you were leaning way too heavily on that stealth crutch.

It’s not a crutch. It’s just C&D-> Backstab chain is the highest dps chain we have that can come remotely close to Warrior DPS. It’s raw numbers.

It’s not all about dps, we have way more CC options than warrior.

I created a tanky venom share build that is absolute ridiculousness when you team up with a GS warrior. Talking locking D/D ele down so hard they don’t budge til they die.

Just look cool in both ftw ^.^

Honestly, I’ve noticed no effect whatsoever on normal gameplay. If this is affecting you so badly, you were leaning way too heavily on that stealth crutch.

Wing.5819:

The change does reduce backstab dps. But ONLY backstab dps; you’re total dps does not take a 1/4 hit.

Technically, backstab is a dps loss, if you use C&D to gain stealth for it. It is a good burst but your dps suffers if you use it in a protracted fight.

miniL.7361:

Sifu.6527:

Mixchimmer.7230:

Adaneshade.2409:

Come on guys…. just nut up and learn to use it, we needed this nerf.

You have my support on this one — from a PvP perspective only.

Just try to understand that the reason thieves are upset at this has nothing to do with PvP (or at least for me). It has to do all with PvE.

To give you an example, our typical dagger DPS in dungeons consists of spamming of the following:

Cloak and Dagger —> Backstab -- > Autoattack — > Repeat after revealed wears off.

You have my support in that it was needed for the purpose of PvP — but it is a very significant hit to PvE DPS — and this is why many people, including myself, are a bit peeved.

If you’re hitting the target dummies in Lion Arch, I would agree with you. Seriously, we don’t stand in one place indefinitely and spam that combo…

Wait what….? We don’t…? DANG IT! Im doing it wrong all over again!

I think thiefs should at least give it a week, but without culling in WvW im SCARED!

Been in WvW the past couple of hours. I’ve noticed ZERO impact on my gameplay.

ensoriki.5789:

Adaneshade.2409:

Come on guys…. just nut up and learn to use it, we needed this nerf.

We needed the exploit cleared up, and they didn’t do it (wtf).
They have to stop stealth chaining eventually.

Yes, the revealed on leaving stealth should ALSO be implemented, really need both I believe. But they gotta do some more testing I guess before they feel comfortable.

Come on guys…. just nut up and learn to use it, we needed this nerf.

Ballads.2509:

Daecollo.9578:

Karolis.4261:

Laika.8795:

awgardner.9634:

Define badly please ?

Is it a Thief that hits the easy button ?
Is it a Thief that utilizes his tools and functions to facilitate victory ?

Badly is someone who relies on stealth as a crutch, rather than a tool. Obviously you play P/D, so I guess someone a lot like you.

lol.

Hater alert. Hater alert. Hey gues what, I play D/D with 30 in Shadow arts. I use stealth as often as possible and time to time I even chain CnD to regen some more hp and/or relocate, aswell to add some burst to that backstab that I will use to open up on target.
Plz hate me

Every trait you have got nerfed by 25%, so did your damage and survivability.

33%

What if he’s running a venom sharing build? :-P

swinsk.6410:

Adaneshade.2409:

I made a point in every post to point out that stealth is a great tool. Can anyone honestly sit there and tell me that people who only use stealth and have no idea how to use a shadowstep in combat for repositioning are “skilled” though. This is the issue i see with 90% of the thieves I kill while roaming in wvw. They rely too heavily on that one mechanic, rather than a healthy mix of our 4 defensive options (armor, hp, shadowstepping/evasion, stealth).

I guess my overall point is that creating a build that tries to stand on a single leg rather than all 4 is not very indicative of an experienced PvP’er. This applies to every PvP MMO.

I understand what your trying to say here but I don’t understand why you are saying it.

People will play the way want too. I’ve always used my shadowstep and blinding powder or whatever else to distract and move. After fights usually all my CDs are down and sure I use CND a lot too.

Some people use it, some don’t.

Hence, the proposed nerf not affecting well built thieves, only the poorly built ones that rely solely on stealth…..I claimed the nerf would have minimal effect on a good thief’s gameplay. You made it sound as if it would break every build that used stealth at all.

Either way, the point is now moot, since that change is not even in patch notes.

RetroSamus.9860:

Basilisk Venom is now official awfuller then devour venom … good going Arena – net !

Think it will still be very effective in a venom sharing build, wouldn’t count on is as a soloer anymore though.

Sifu.6527:

Daendur.2357:

No revealed if no attack. ?

I don’t know. They have a history of leaving things out of the patch note. Can someone log and confirm or can a Dev provide clarifaction?

Patch isn’t in effect yet

Interesting, guess the rescinded their decision to apply revealed, that or they forgot to add it to notes. However, the increase of revealed time to 4 seconds was never mentioned before, maybe it simply took the place of the other nerf?

Yeah, odd, what is your source for these notes?

I made a point in every post to point out that stealth is a great tool. Can anyone honestly sit there and tell me that people who only use stealth and have no idea how to use a shadowstep in combat for repositioning are “skilled” though. This is the issue i see with 90% of the thieves I kill while roaming in wvw. They rely too heavily on that one mechanic, rather than a healthy mix of our 4 defensive options (armor, hp, shadowstepping/evasion, stealth).

I guess my overall point is that creating a build that tries to stand on a single leg rather than all 4 is not very indicative of an experienced PvP’er. This applies to every PvP MMO.

Daeqar.8965:

Adaneshade.2409:

The stealth nerfs will be GOOD for our profession as a whole as it will drive out some of the bads … we now get a patch that will “separate the men form the boys”. It’s high time for the class to be respectable.

…

Any build that relies totally on stealth openers would fall into this category. [Only a noob would use high damage/utility attacks that cost zero initiative.]

…

The GC builds that don’t rely on distraction and evasion instead of stealth require tons of skill to play for sure.

…

Why would anyone run from a fight?

…

Only a good thief would stand there and take it like a man instead of using evasion and stealth to avoid damage.

Nice paraphrasing there, only a noob would use just one or the other rather than a good combination of the two or be foolish enough to run a build that dies should they get knocked down and hundred bladed or something like that. You have to design your build tough enough for the odd occasion that you can’t use an escape and have to eat someone’s burst in order to be at maximum usefulness in this meta. Killing isn’t what’s important in this game’s version of PvP, it’s surviving and controlling an area (applies both to PvP and to WvW).

Being forced to flee is the same as losing as you lose control of that territory.

swinsk.6410:

Where do the builds that don’t have any defense fall into according to adaneshade schema of noob/non-noob builds for thief?

For instance, jinzu build, is that a noob or non-noob build?

It’s poorly built. Is it difficult to play other than 1v1? Sure….. However, I’d never let someone running a build like that on my tPvP team, it’s simply a gimmick build that has no real sustainability. Downing someone but being too squishy to actually finish them is of no real use in this PvP meta.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Kultas Sunstrider.9218:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

working as intended. direct counterplay to pesky bunkers in the current meta. insta-neut enemy capped point with orb

sadly everyone is playing bunker ftw in that map. anet’s plan failed

Thieves become quite useless. Also there is no teamfight, so mesmers start to play with moa morph.

Thieves have this dodge roll build that lets them chain like 8 in a row while carrying the orb, they become basically unstoppable.

It’s the fault of the game mode. Winning comes from holding a point; killing players does contribute some ofc, but it’s minor. Bunkers hold points….

Glad to see ya joining with the enlightened few ^.^

Creating a build takes skill, creating a build with only one aspect of our dynamic class shows a lack of it. What you’ve listed are weapon set’s, while part of a build, they are not builds. A build includes gear, traits, utilities, runes, sigils, everything about the character. I don’t care what weapon set someone uses so long as they’ve come up with an all inclusive build with it.

I’ve only called out P/D thieves because of the fact that I’ve never seen anyone use a build with it that utilized all of our abilities, only stealth and sneak attack. Because it’s core gameplay only involves the use of 2 abilities (stealth and sneak attack) it’s easy to use, there’s no thought process to it.
This doesn’t mean that one doesn’t exist, I’ve just never seen or heard of it. If you can find anyone using a well rounded P/D build, by all means show it to me.

As for GC builds, the player has left a major hole in the build, that of sustainability. If they don’t manage to kill their opponent on the opening assault, they are forced to run away. Nothing skillfull about that.

XZERO.3014:

In my defence short bow already excels at aoe condi dmg and it provides more mobility to get around the map, the condi on death blossom seems like a banana in a group of apples, it just doesn’t fit

D/D is more of a hybrid setup. You apply poison with auto-attack and bleeds with LDB. As well as having a good execute ability. You’re thinking in strict min/max terms and that just doesn’t apply in this game.

CnD simply doesn’t do enough damage to kill anyone with a half-decent build.

Thunderbrew.7034:

Trust me I agree, I dont play that way. I was just giving you your answer.

Yeah I know, was just a QFT post with some ellaboration ^.^

Never had that issue and I’ve got over 1k hours with the sword alone lol

Thunderbrew.7034:

The answer to that Adane, is that the players are looking for a
quick and easy kill because thats the only way they know how to
play.

I think sPvP is a great way to hone 1v1 tactics, but many players would
never survive that format. They rely on catching people at low health,
or fighting with odds in their favor in order to win and “feel good.”

How can you feel good about a fight that wasn’t even a challenge? What did you overcome to earn that victory? There are no bragging rights to be had. This is why I don’t understand people who gank solo upscaled babies in WvW, If that upscaled noob is foolish enough to attack you then kill them. What do you gain by squashing something that doesn’t even stand a real chance of fighting back though?

Thunderbrew.7034:

The devs posted long time ago that “a thief is new player friendly but requires
a high level of skill to actually master.”

Part of the problem people complain about, is the ability for a low skilled
player to steal (with mug) and get off a combo or two, which results in
massive damage. Now, if you are good at dodging, stun breaking, or have a skill
to use, and you know how a thief plays, you can survive the initial burst.

A big problem with the above statement was culling, in where you didnt have
time to respond or didnt even see it coming. The forums were flooded by
people crying about getting downed so fast as opposed to learning how to
counter it.

As a glass cannon ele for over 1500 hours played, I was always the target for
thieves, but learned to stick around other people and not get caught in the
open. When I did get jumped, I thought of better things I could have done
to avoid the situation.

This isnt meant to offend anyone, but from what Ive experienced is that the
overwhelmingly number of thiefs are not highly skilled. If they dont win on the
initial burst, they run. They have zero ability to enter a sustained fight. As one of
the above posters stated, the changes to stealth will weed them out.

This is in essence what I’m referring to… Why would anyone run from a fight? It’s cowardice and cheap gameplay. If you initialize a fight, finish what you started. Proper builds allow a thief to do this, gives them sustainability.

Jinks.2057:

You haven’t answered the question….

Also what do call spamming stealth? CnD every 3 seconds after your sneak attack or CnD chaining?

Im sorry but you’re still a lil unclear with your posts

I’m referring to use of stealth as your ONLY defensive technique. Obvioulsy chaining C&D would be the absolute worst offender of that. But making a build that requires you to re-enter stealth every 3 seconds on the dot isn’t much better. Why not make a build that has some other defensive measures? Shadowstepping, access to tons of evasion abilities. People who only use stealth are only playing half the class. It shows very linear thinking and a lack of really understanding the class.

As I said before, stealth is a great tool. I use it, it’s the people who don’t even use anything else that fall short of the mark for truly high end PvP.

Not to mention… GC has no place in PvP, never has. Builds without adequate defense show a very limited perception on combat in unpredictable scenarios.

The GC builds that don’t rely on distraction and evasion instead of stealth require tons of skill to play for sure. However, any build that relies purely on stealth is a beginner build as these make it too easy to come back from mistakes.

No, the key word is “solely” as in builds that only work with use of stealth as a crutch(and up til this point, culling). There are plenty of builds that primarily use attacks other than C&D and whatever opener you have with the set. The reason I mention P/D specifically is I’m unaware of any build with that weapon set that doesn’t use stealth as a crutch.

A properly designed build can survive in combat without the use of stealth for much greater periods of time. That’s not to say they never use stealth at all, it is a useful tool and does have it’s place. Certain builds, however, totally revolve around the use of stealth and utterly fail to work without it’s use.

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Thieves are in a great place atm, especially compared to the issues some other classes still have. There is no “hate” at all for our class, at least from the Devs. The stealth nerfs will be GOOD for our profession as a whole as it will drive out some of the bads and spread that population among the other classes a bit. I’m tired of all thieves being lumped into the same group of “ezmode noobs”, we now get a patch that will “separate the men form the boys”. It’s high time for the class to be respectable.

Can you define what an ezmode noob is?

All I ever read from you is “take your training wheels off, get a real build, noob thieves”

So please tell me what do you constitute as a noob build vs man build.

Thanks.

As for the rest of the topic…I feel culling fix and reevaluate is the correct way.

Sure, noob builds are those that require very little effort for decent payout vs bad players, but fail to be effective vs the more experienced players, a good example of this is P/D. Crazy easy to use, but easily countered by experienced players. Any build that relies totally on stealth openers would fall into this category.

It only clears 1 condition. If you have more than 1 on you (most likely you do), It’s random as to which it clears.

Guardian has same base hp as thief/ele afaik, thsy just have a TON of toughness/defensive traits

Vena.8436:

Emerge.9640:

One of the WvW problems is that attrition is a viable tactic.

Of course attrition is a viable tactic. A team with superior numbers, no matter how hunkered down you might be, will win by attrition ~ that’s standard warfare (in our current format death is punished by being unable to help and attrition swings both ways for attackers and defenders depening on which half of the map they are in). There is no viable way to punish attrition tactics without wholesale making people terrified of dying because this is a week long format.

People complain enough as it is about a repair fee…

Except death has no penalty in a large zerg. You’re nearly insta-rezzed (and I’m talking from fully dead here). The game would be much more entertaining if only revives could be done in combat, not full resurrects.

Reslinal.2359:

i didn’t know they nerfed sieges for antipersonal?

It occurred during beta. In earlier beta even standing in 1 arrow cart’s barrage for the full duration was nearly guaranteed death. It forced players to dodge out of the way, and totally prevented the “zergballing” we see today. Basically siege could be an “area denial” tool. Now, people just tank it and shrug it off.

Thieves are in a great place atm, especially compared to the issues some other classes still have. There is no “hate” at all for our class, at least from the Devs. The stealth nerfs will be GOOD for our profession as a whole as it will drive out some of the bads and spread that population among the other classes a bit. I’m tired of all thieves being lumped into the same group of “ezmode noobs”, we now get a patch that will “separate the men form the boys”. It’s high time for the class to be respectable.

Let’s take this to PMs, don’t want mods to have to delete our posts and give us warnings.

Acelerion.6820:

I think its a couple of thigs. Too offen AAA titles try to be everything to everybody. This game is a great example of that. Secondly companies are hellbent on designing PvP with new or pve focused players in mind assuming people who enjoy PvP will be perfectly happy with anything that has keeps and rams in it.

People need to understand that PvP is built around combat systems and incentives/bragging rights. Not omg huge battles and trebuchets.

I agree. To a PvPer, recognition for his skills is the ultimate reward (especially on the rare occasion that even your opponent admits to it). We care little for flashy armor/weapons or other things that drive the PvE crowd. This entire WvW system was designed to minimize embarrassment of players by being so anonymous, but also has the side effect of minimizing accolades to the few that do truly deserve them.

Essentially, not deterring players from just being one of the herd. It does not drive them to become better than everyone else; after all, who’d even notice?

Passed the 4 hour mark during BETA with my guild claimed tower. Five of us defended against about 30. But this was before siege weapons became absolute trash for antipersonnel usage.

Emerge.9640:

Adaneshade.2409:

Emerge.9640:

Sepsis.1564:

Emerge.9640:

Sepsis.1564:

As expected an expansions worth of content… Just think of what this MMO could have been.
We all been looking for DAoC 2 and we are delivered PvD 2.0

You know there is always that other game..

=D

Do not tempt me!

Vamp/Bard/Ment

Actually, with this “zerg reinforcement patch” coming, I’ve re-upped my subscription to DAoC. Am I gonna QQ and say I’ll NEVER play GW2 again? No….. that’s a childish attitude. But this does dampen my drive for WvW.
Still enjoy tPvP though, so I’ll be doing that on occasion for sure.

I opened the DAOC acct yesterday, what toons + realm? I’m guessing access to all realms?

Hibernia (used to be MLF) Ywain1 now. Adanedhel (Or any character with “Adane” prefix)

Genesis Notch.1905:

Isaac.6041:

Zephyrus.9680:

No it doesn’t. WvW is obviously “Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay”.

Of course leeching is irrelevant in WvW and the “this also includes” means it includes sPvP leeching in the category. Not exclusive.

Spying/sabotage is not “participating in matches in good faith”. It would take a pretty big twist to convince yourself otherwise, even if you’re a perpetrator?

Same with “inappropriate behavior”, “other misconduct”, and “match manipulation”.

I don’t see how they can make it anymore clear than that without extending it to 100 pages for every conceivable and inconceivable offense that no one would ever read.

We have seen ArenaNet use the term PvP exclusively for sPvP and NOT for WvW.

The examples are all throughout their game update notes where they make certain changes for PvP (they use the term PvP to refer to sPvP) and the changes do not affect WvW/PvE.

So 22 does not apply to WvW.

Spying and sabotage is allowed. Killing your teammates in the Eternal Battlegrounds jumping puzzle is allowed. Taking slots in WvW so you can do the jumping puzzle instead of fighting other players is allowed. Partying with enemy players is allowed.

Talking with enemy players is allowed. Guesting on enemy server’s in lions arch (and other PvE locations) so you can boast and brag is allowed. Buying multiple guild wars accounts is allowed. Multiboxing is allowed as long as each account is personally controlled by the player (and not macros/bots). Reading “enemy” movements, map/team chat on your 2nd account and conveying that information to your “primary” account’s server is therefore allowed.

The wiki does not agree with you though:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP

It clearly says ‘World versus World’ is considered as one of the PvP modes in Guild Wars 2.

I believe rule 22 affects WvW too in the sense that Anet does encourage players to actively participate with good intention. If by ‘good intention’ means that players should not disrupt other people’s game experience, then spying and sabotaging are a big no.

Multi-boxing is allowed, yes, but if one multi-boxes to other server just to excessively boast/drain supply/purposely chose silly keep-tower upgrades/whatever that affect other people’s game experience in a bad way, then these kinds of multi-boxing are not allowed.

The problem is that it’s really hard to tell the good from the bad, also considering that there are many that fall in between. Hence, we should not blatantly encourage other players that spying/sabotaging is allowed, so that they will not rely on these methods to have advantage.

Wiki’s are NEVER a reliable source. They are community edited, anyone could put anything on them.

Acelerion.6820:

Enjoy trying futily to dodge roll everything:p its…interesting trying to play doc after this more action based system

10 years of muscle memory…I’ll be fine lol. Hasn’t even been a year yet since I was an active sub.

Acelerion.6820:

Which is why all these systems incentivize zerging. Which goes against a net stating they would like to incentivize people to stop zerging quite so much.

Another thing is that these ranks are going to mean absolutely nothing. The best players are going to be low rank just because they tend to not zerg. As mentioned, no one compares kill counts for a reason, they are meaningless and it no way a representation of accomplishments.

This is so sad because the solution is so simple. Add in a “solo kill” tracker by a simple check of who xp is rewarded to on a kill (only one person got xp for this kill, he gets a tick in the “solo kills” tree.

Could go so far as to give “solo kills” it’s own set of titles. This gives a progression system to people not interested in zerging.

Emerge.9640:

Sepsis.1564:

Emerge.9640:

Sepsis.1564:

As expected an expansions worth of content… Just think of what this MMO could have been.
We all been looking for DAoC 2 and we are delivered PvD 2.0

You know there is always that other game..

=D

Do not tempt me!

Vamp/Bard/Ment

Actually, with this “zerg reinforcement patch” coming, I’ve re-upped my subscription to DAoC. Am I gonna QQ and say I’ll NEVER play GW2 again? No….. that’s a childish attitude. But this does dampen my drive for WvW.
Still enjoy tPvP though, so I’ll be doing that on occasion for sure.

Ruprect.7260:

Zoel.9154:

As much as I’m excited to see new items for badges, i’m a little concerned about the appearance options.

Will there be ways of getting the identical skins outside of WvW? It would be unfortunate to have an influx of people in WvW who don’t want to be playing WvW and taking up spots from those who do while spamming the jump puzzles

The new WvW will be killing PvE noobs in the JP while they try to get their badges for new skins. There will be empty maps and full JP’s

I hope they see this coming a mile away and don’t do something stupid.

The first time I’ve actually been excited about the upcoming “zerg reinforcement patch”. The thought of trolling PvE’rs makes me all warm and fuzzy.