~Shadowkat
S/D is easy? Compared to what? It has the highest skill cap of any kit we can wield.
S/D is the absolute EASIEST weapon set we have.
I enjoy reading your posts telling everyone how the “skillful” way to play a thief is, and I hope we can continue our discussion.
Truth be told though every time we have this discussion you end up disappearing….
Why would I allow myself to be sucked repeatedly into an argument with someone who has blinders on? What do you play that’s so kitten difficult?
Why so mad?
Who’s mad? No reason to waste emotion on trolls. Nice deflection though, makes it obvious you don’t want to admit to whatever no-brainer setup you run.
This is why I don’t engage in conversation with you.
You’re mad unfortunately. You evade any and all discussion where I pick apart your ideas.
1. You don’t post builds that you feel are “pr0”
2. You claim D/D and GC are noob builds
3. You claim you have to utilize all aspects of a thief (movement/stealth/durability)Basically you’ve come to the conclusion that S/D+Tanky build = pr0
What you fail to realize is its not. That is easy mode.
You want pr0? Go throw on full zerk gear and take on 5 people at once….That’s what I consider “pr0”
I have posted multiple builds, in fact, complete guides to gameplay.
What contributions have you made to the community? (Wait let me answer that for you. NONE!)
Here are just a few of the numerous constructive posts of mine:
5 months ago
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Condition-Damage-is-bad/first#post459745
2 months ago
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Looking-for-a-survivable-tanky-WvW-build/first#post1177020
1 week ago
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Guide-to-Thief-Guides/first#post1713713
Your entire post history consists of trolling players who offer alternatives to your narrow-minded views on the thief class. While mine have for the most part been directed at promoting innovation in builds and gameplay.
Anyone can troll, it takes professionalism (pr0) to present new ideas to the community.
~Shadowkat
I let my kids – ages 6 and 8 – role up characters on my account. I have a great time watching them huddle around the computer playing GW2, especially when they jump into WvW. “Get the yak!” “Follow the commander!” and other lines are priceless coming from the 6-year old. The best part is when they go to bed and I clean up their inventory (they don’t know what to sell vs merchant) and find several badges collected from their fun.
Using children as slaves for badges?
Reported.
:)
Actually knew of a guy in DAoC who had his account perma-banned. He was making his kids level his crafting as punishment for bad behavior lol….. That’s about what crafting in that game was….cruel and unusual punishment.
~Shadowkat
S/D is easy? Compared to what? It has the highest skill cap of any kit we can wield.
S/D is the absolute EASIEST weapon set we have.
I enjoy reading your posts telling everyone how the “skillful” way to play a thief is, and I hope we can continue our discussion.
Truth be told though every time we have this discussion you end up disappearing….
Why would I allow myself to be sucked repeatedly into an argument with someone who has blinders on? What do you play that’s so kitten difficult?
Why so mad?
Who’s mad? No reason to waste emotion on trolls. Nice deflection though, makes it obvious you don’t want to admit to whatever no-brainer setup you run.
This is why I don’t engage in conversation with you.
~Shadowkat
S/D is easy? Compared to what? It has the highest skill cap of any kit we can wield.
The issue was the builds that abused stealth to crazy extents were “ez-mode”. They got nerfed, now people QQ rather than getting good at playing with slightly less access to their crutch.
I’m not sure I would say it has the highest skill cap. Looking at it, it has a built-in shadowstep + snare + stunbreak+condition remove+escape, a decent evade with decent damage (assuming it hits), a cripple, and a stealth. The auto attack is powerful and it’s unified around direct damage. Try sustained (non-condition, non-burst) D/D for a challenge. D/P can also be quite a challenge since it only has a shadowstep into combat and it costs 9 initiative to use stealth, meaning that you have to really manage your initiative to use it (reward being that you can use it to perma-stealth). This is not to knock S/D as it is powerful and takes longer to learn than burst D/D, I’m just not sure that it has the highest skill cap, but it’s all subjective anyway. My current build is 0/15/30/25/0 S/D + D/P making it non-bursty relying on both stealth and dodging for survivability.
What makes it take so much to play is the fact that it has all that. Most builds are pretty much 2 or 3 button combos, all with one goal in mind…damage. There is no decision making involved. Above 50% HP, I do X, once they are below, I do Y…that’s about as complicated as it gets.
With S/D, a player has to make on the fly decisions about which skill to use and weigh the initiative cost of each or they get into trouble fast. Should I strip that guys’s boon? Or refresh the timer on my shadow return? What about CnD and dazing to stop that revive/stomp…… At any given moment you’re faced with several decisions to make about which is the best usage of init for the current situation.
~Shadowkat
Or, F, they finally created a balanced class and the bads are simply QQing the loss of their ez-mode.
I’ve played thief as main since release and plan to continue to do so. Right now, I’m in a position where it’s 50/50 when I go into a fight that I’ll be the victor, where previously it was no contest (can I really claim to be so much better than every one else playing any other class at that point in time? no.) Our class was OP, it’s now balanced.
Explain how the recent changes affected glass backstabs? The reason the Thief was considered OP…
Cause I remember reading loads of topics saying Caltrops where cutting down entire teams of enemies.
/sarcasm
=P
We are discussing the stealth nerfs in particular, caltops is an entirely different issue. Only inconsequential noobs actually die to GC backstab builds, they’re not really a threat to the meta at any level that actually matters.
Stealth was too easy a tool to use, causing too many people to ignore our other defensive options entirely. This forces players to utilize other tools now. Once again, those “forced” into GC builds are only playing hotjoins, not high level tPvP.
As for PvE, backstab was never the best DPS option, so I fail to see what the drama is there.
~Shadowkat
S/D is easy? Compared to what? It has the highest skill cap of any kit we can wield.
S/D is the absolute EASIEST weapon set we have.
I enjoy reading your posts telling everyone how the “skillful” way to play a thief is, and I hope we can continue our discussion.
Truth be told though every time we have this discussion you end up disappearing….
Why would I allow myself to be sucked repeatedly into an argument with someone who has blinders on? What do you play that’s so kitten difficult?
~Shadowkat
(edited by Adaneshade.2409)
How do you people expect for them to listen to you when all you do is complain.
What is it we should do?
Adapt, pick the weakest build you can think of and get so good at it that you kill the cheesy flavor of the month builds. I rolled out venom sharing, which btw is VERY effective if you have a team with half a brain between them. (So no, GC isnt’ the only viable build we have).
~Shadowkat
Or, F, they finally created a balanced class and the bads are simply QQing the loss of their ez-mode.
I’ve played thief as main since release and plan to continue to do so. Right now, I’m in a position where it’s 50/50 when I go into a fight that I’ll be the victor, where previously it was no contest (can I really claim to be so much better than every one else playing any other class at that point in time? no.) Our class was OP, it’s now balanced.
Ya know, if you’re problem with the class is ya feel it was too easy, you could have always chosen to play with a different build. I don’t play PvP and I take chances, so I don’t play the game in easy mode – anything is easy mode if you play like my grandpa drives. But see, they didn’t just leave the choice of switching to a harder build for people like you, instead they forced everyone to change builds while only hurting the people who needed that change the least. Our class was not overpowered in PvE, never has been, and now it’s just worse.
S/D is easy? Compared to what? It has the highest skill cap of any kit we can wield.
The issue was the builds that abused stealth to crazy extents were “ez-mode”. They got nerfed, now people QQ rather than getting good at playing with slightly less access to their crutch.
~Shadowkat
Siege bunker ftw…. Already laugh off arrow cart fire, now I’ll be able to dance in the drizzle.
~Shadowkat
I run 2 7850s they never get hot :-)
The 7k series runs MUCH cooler than the 6k series does. I’m running on a single 7950 with triple fan cooling cowl and have no slow downs or heat issues at all.
~Shadowkat
wrong, they took a bugfix int account while balancing things. that change to revealed would just make thieves complete trash.
Culling is not an intended part of the Stealth Mechanic. At all. This is obvious from s/tpvp where culling is at a minimum.
However the post by jon peters states that they considered fixing the exploit caused by culling to be equivalent to a Nerf. When it shouldn’t even be considered at all.
So, you’re denying that it contributed to the “OP” nature of thieves? Nothing in a game this complex can be considered in a vacuum.
~Shadowkat
Physically saying, swords are heavier than daggers, and since most people have a dominant side, generally the right one, going D/S would be an idiot decision, you wouldn’t be able to hold and use it well
But talking about other weapons, I’d like to see more weapons for thieves
Are we applying real-life physics to a fantasy video game? Come now………
~Shadowkat
Skills queue will have 1 skill in the queue and one actively being performed. Double tapping a button (2 in this case) will execute that ability twice. Triple tapping, will still only activate twice.
ANet should put in the option to disable skill queuing, this would leave it intact for those who want it while disabling it for those who want more micro-managing control.
~Shadowkat
Is a fun build, good in 1v1 but insane when you team up with friends.
~Shadowkat
Or, F, they finally created a balanced class and the bads are simply QQing the loss of their ez-mode.
I’ve played thief as main since release and plan to continue to do so. Right now, I’m in a position where it’s 50/50 when I go into a fight that I’ll be the victor, where previously it was no contest (can I really claim to be so much better than every one else playing any other class at that point in time? no.) Our class was OP, it’s now balanced.
For the umpteenth kitten time, the patch did NOTHING for PvP. Revealed whether you attack or not WOULD have been the correct way to balance stealth properly in PvP or WvW, but that is not what happened. Instead, burst builds were completely unaffected by 1 extra second (hence still hilariously OP), perma-stealth ponies spamming C+D all day don’t even notice a difference and PvE stealth skill rotations got made more awkward and unnatural. That is all the difference it made. No “ez mode” was lost. In fact, all the increase to Revealed did is push more Thieves TOWARDS “ez mode” burst builds that wipe the floor with the enemy before the fight gets out of hand. The patch hit every aspect of the Thief EXCEPT the part it was meant to balance. Thief is still stupidly OP in PvP, and was just made ever-so-slightly worse in PvE for no reason whatsoever. If your victories have been literally halved by this patch, I question the integrity/consistency of your playstyle.
Don’t even try and defend this pathetic excuse of a patch. Arenanet had the perfect solution, to stop perma-stealth and C+D abuse for good, to transform stealth in to mechanic influenced by decision instead of abundance, and at the same time keeping the mechanic in line within all environments with very little repercussion. Instead, we got a last-minute switcheroo that fails in every single way to solve the original problems, and instead causes additional problems in completely unrelated areas of the game. They have failed in every regard on this issue, and there is absolutely no excuse for the sheer stupidity that has been demonstrated here.
I agree that the application of revealed should apply on breaking stealth in addition to the increased duration on revealed. Burst may still need to be nerfed, but I doubt it, never ran those cheese builds and never will. However, I’ve never encountered a burst build on any class that I considered to be a threat to me, so I fail to see how they are OP.
GCs kill other GC, but fail to kill properly built/played builds. Bunkers are the real issue atm for balance.
~Shadowkat
I think the thing he is trying to say is if you are unsatisfied, find another product.
Products should be delivered as advertised. WvW does not match their stated design intent.
~Shadowkat
Based on reading the march end survey it’s easy to conclude that a majority of players consider Elementalists to be slightly on the OP side. I don’t understand why this is the case based on what I’ve seen while playing, for the following reasons:
1. It seems like a majority of elementalist damage burst avoidable because they are AoE based.
2. While elementalists do have some stun breaks, from my fights against Eles they seem to be very prone to CC. Even if you don’t kill them (likely unless you are with a group) you can force them to use up their few defensive cooldowns and retreat.Compare this to Mesmers:
1. Blurred Frenzy, most OP skill I have ever seen. 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10 second cooldown, wtf? What other class has 2 seconds of invulnerability on a 10s cooldown? I’m not even considering the extra burst.
2. Ilusionary Leap, while technically not a stun break can basically nullify the effects of immobilize or snare or freeze. On a 12 second cooldown.
Sure, but blurred frenzy’s damage is laughable.
~Shadowkat
Or, F, they finally created a balanced class and the bads are simply QQing the loss of their ez-mode.
I’ve played thief as main since release and plan to continue to do so. Right now, I’m in a position where it’s 50/50 when I go into a fight that I’ll be the victor, where previously it was no contest (can I really claim to be so much better than every one else playing any other class at that point in time? no.) Our class was OP, it’s now balanced.
~Shadowkat
What bothers me most is Anet says they don’t support zergs and want to see fights break up into smaller skirmishes. Yet the do things that promote just the opposite. All I’m asking is for them to be truthful, if they want zerging to be the go-to META, fess up to it. Otherwise, make decisions more carefully (ANet was warned by many players that the effect this patch would have would be to further promote zergs, so they can’t claim ignorance here).
~Shadowkat
So out of most weapons I prefer S/D & P/D, I was wondering is it even possible to be a Hybrid Thief that does well in Condition and Melee Damage? If so How good is it in WvW roaming 1v1 and PvE Dungeons?
I actually ran a glassy hybrid to get the best of both worlds using rampager’s gear for a while. It worked ok, until people all started slotting condition cleanses. Now it seems conditions for thief are just too weak since we don’t maintain enough types to prevent condition cleasing from taking our dps conditions off regularly.
~Shadowkat
Invincible until they learn to just CC you when you land from DB.
This, any thief running a combo of basilisk/devourer venom will laugh at a LDB build.
~Shadowkat
The issue we found in lower tiers is that the WvW population is too low. Sure the zergs are smaller, but there are portions in the day where you spend more time looking for a fight, then fighting.
Even T3 was getting weak at parts of the day, was still good during prime time, but late afternoon was far to slow.
That’s something I’m concerned about. I wonder if the lower tier being more conducive to small scale PVP is mostly borne out of there being, maybe, far fewer people in WvW.
Its not a problem unless you run more than 5. Less than that is nearly constant action.
Lately, I’ve been running a trio roaming group in T2, it seems to be the sweet spot. Two thieves (one venom sharing other burst) and a D/D ele. We have enough speed to elude zergs and enough CC to lock down the guy in the rear of a zerg and take him out before his allies know what’s going on. Makes for great guerrilla action.
~Shadowkat
I’m afraid this wont really fix the problem. People don’t learn how to play the game, and especially don’t learn the meta, or class roles, by doing hotjoin.
The issue I have with the restriction is the inability to join in hotjoins as a party. Sure you can both join the same game, but it’s a crap-shoot as to whether you’ll wind up on the same team. I’m still recruiting old friends to come try GW2 specifically for the tPvP, having to solo queue with random puggers for 20 ranks would be a deal breaker.
~Shadowkat
Would like to add my newly created “Venom share tank” build. Crazy high survivability and great group utility (possibly the strongest sPvP build I’ve ever run).
PvP:
Same traits with 5x soldier and 1x guardian rune, stacking crit sigil on all weapons, and Soldier’s amulet socketed with knight’s jewel.Adding now.
Technically it’s a direct damage build, no condition damage. The venom sharing is primarily for CC purposes.
~Shadowkat
Never really had problems facing a S/D thieves. My first reaction is to always use black powder and just react to their move. I let them initiate the first move since I feel comfortable inside my black powder.
I run D/P and SB and roam solo or in 2s and 3s as a scout. I guess my approach to every fight is to not burst them right away and just surprise them with the burst mid fight.
If they are smart enough, a sword thief would realize their attack range allows them to stand outside your field and pummel you while you stand in it without getting blinded.
~Shadowkat
FS damage isn’t bad, once you get good enough with it to hit your target reliably.
~Shadowkat
I’m looking for a small guild of easy going players that like to roam in WvW with maybe 10-15 players fielded. No required attendance bs, please. Doesn’t have to be purely WvW focused, would just like to count on some people out and about in WvW each day.
Play times range from Noon – 10:00PM Eastern Time, So I cover a large block of time making western European guilds fine too.
~Shadowkat
To answer your question I never use tactical strike. The only time I ever stealthed was from heal or shadow refuge. Basically the burst goes like this: PW, steal, haste, PW, PW, infiltrators strike (remember it has an immobilize on hit) auto attack, target dead.
That is an interesting combo.
Now against a good player they will pop stun break. Opposing thieves would shadow step away so it’s pretty easy to counter. Infiltrators strike in, PW – when they shadow step, steal to them, PW again. If they shadow step back double tap infiltrators strike to teleport back to them, pop haste, PW and dead thief. Can also use your own shadow step to get back in range of them if you’re running low on initiative. The stuns from pw and the immobilize from infiltrators strike are plenty to lock someone down. It’s about movement, lockdowns etc. Rarely used headshot as not worth the initiative unless it was to stop a heal. Beauty of this build is its MUCH better in a team fight as you are not only doing crazy damage you are setting up the rest of your team to spike since the enemy pretty much can’t move.
But if you really want to set someone up for your team to have a feast on, I strongly believe that you are better off with S/D. You don’t only daze your target for 1.5s (in PvP – compare to 0.5s stun of PW) but you also strips boon (using FS) on top of immobilize from IS and cripple from Dancing Daggers.
Yup, recently threw venom sharing into the mix and omg, coupled with the CC already from S/D…..everyone else on my team stunning/immobilizing/chilling is insane.
~Shadowkat
The issue is there is no way 4 players and a dead weight will win out against a full 5 player team….. barring some crazy lucky event.
~Shadowkat
None of my builds were affected really. No adaptation needed as far as I’m concerned.
~Shadowkat
i dont see a single thief in..
any City
WvWvW
out in the openworld
hell even in Spvp is barely anyand even those realy few thiefs that i see all of them runing around in one single backstabb build.
are you guys all changed class or left the game or what ?
its funny going in a WvWvW and seeing only like 2 max 3 thief in a Huge group fight
and yes one of them is me lol
Still on thief, always will be on thief. Now 1400 gameplay hours 1200 of which are thief, not about to just give up on my favorite class. Also, not a backstab build as I find that a weak one trick pony.
~Shadowkat
Honestly, I’ve noticed no effect whatsoever on normal gameplay. If this is affecting you so badly, you were leaning way too heavily on that stealth crutch.
It’s not a crutch. It’s just C&D-> Backstab chain is the highest dps chain we have that can come remotely close to Warrior DPS. It’s raw numbers.
It’s not all about dps, we have way more CC options than warrior.
Not really. Warrior’s Hammer alone has way more CC then most thieves can achieve. Throw in things like Stomp and Fear Me, on top of that. To compound it, Warriors also have blocks, block counters, invuls and stability.
S/D venoms alone…. 2x applications of basilisk (long stun), Immobilize, Daze, Cripple, Boon Shear (unblockable btw), chill. Then there’s the weakness (way underrated) all coupled with near perma-uptime of stun break (shadow return from infil strike).
~Shadowkat
SA is still useful in practical combat. You weren’t going to land your CND every 3s on people trying to stay afloat. Venoms are also useful.
I’d say more but I can’t even comprehend how people think its trashy now.My immediate response after seeing PW die… Was to go to venom share since I didn’t need haste with that. However I solo que so it wasn’t as practical as it.could be. So…. I’m playing with 25/25/20 ATM while I brainstorm.
Really enjoying 4s immobilize on needle trap too.
Yeah 1v1 thief traps are insane, wish they affected larger areas like ranger traps though……
~Shadowkat
maybe it works. problem is what do u do if your close point holder lose the point. u have a guardian vs ele at close and a probably 3+1 at mid with their close point taken.
no pressure to their point = 4 free opponents.it doens’t mean it won’t work. just skeptical
Hehe, however it looks, it works well for us, dunno what else to tell ya. Either way, we’ve gotten way off the track of whether Tankish Venom Share thief is viable or not. In the end, if what you have works and you’re not bored to tears by it, keep at it right?
~Shadowkat
Ok, we’re thinking of 2 different points in the match. I’ve been describing play after we’ve already established our 2 points of control and are bunkered down. We have an ele to match their ele in situations of tornado and hold long enough for the warrior and I to close in and finish off the aggressor or force them to flee. More often than not, the ele has blown all CDs trying to take the point and we just pin them down and kill.
You seem to be talking from the very start of the match, in that case the ele/guard go for close point. Warrior, other guard, and I go for other for initial cap they can’t stay in circle without dying from being shut down but we can.
Every player on our team is able to bunker down to some degree, no one if full out glass. Warrior simply has the most burst. In the end, outbunkering the other team is superior to killing them.
My point is that most bunkers do not expect to be shut down so hard and they die before they get the chance to react. (Probably due to not very many venom share thieves about, and even fewer that spam daze/boon shears while in a fight.)
~Shadowkat
(edited by Adaneshade.2409)
Just curious who’s not running SA now? If for nothing else, the toughness/healing seems enough reason to have at least SOME, I’m with Cygnus on this.
~Shadowkat
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mckmzc9cmMhxmmMhxmx0x0amRbmsbV8kiQ70M7070M7kNc70m707owY
Couldn’t show it there, but I run Knight’s Gem in the Soldier’s amulet.
Both the might and lifesteal work for your allies as well as you.
I like different builds. As our core thief allrdy tested quite the same build, we saw it didn’t work cuz without any fast burst you won’t kill anything. So for this you need some other burst class. Also this build just work in teamfights. In a 1v1 you’re in a lost state.
Try to roam around with this build and catch an ele. Will never happen cuz conditions won’t kill the ele. Mabye you could name your setup so we get an impression how you fit in it. Like to see that. ThanksWe run 2x bunker guards 1x D/D ele, myself on thief, and a GS warrior. Ele floats between guards and GS warrior and I roam for PK. I fill the role of primary CC for the team.
I do win nearly every 1v1 I just don’t “insta-gib”. My dps isn’t shabby at all due to sword’s natural high auto-attack dps, and my ability to keep protection/regeneration stripped off my target. They pretty much stay locked down from venoms during the fight.
To summarize that for you. No portal = max 4 ppl on mid-fights. If the warrior gets shut down (and for sure he will) I doubt you will get smn down from your pressure. Also it’s easy to outroam your setup.
Still my question is how you handle a bunker-ele on your close? Your missing burst will destroy you.I rotate venoms out, (Basilisk on inc, I hit and force stun break, GS warrior charges/ throws GS with his basilisk to stone second time: I then pop devourer to immobilize while warrior hits 100b rotation, then I chill, then venom….generally, an ele is dead before i get to chill, bunker guards will require the full venom rotation.)
We only focus on holding 2 points, this build grows in strength multiplicatively by the number of allies nearby. Lack of burst is a non issue when your opponent is forced to sit there and eat all your attacks.
Any good ele will instantly teleport or mistform if he sees a warrior coming with 100b / a thief has basilisk up. So no you won’t kill him instantly. But actually i’d like to see that. If you play on EU-Servers then you can pm me. I really wanna see if this works.
still thank you for the description, appreciated that.The whole point is we force them to use those CDs before we go for the kill. Won’t do the burst rotation til they are locked down. Often I’ll hold off on venoms and use infiltrator’s strike spam to force this if necessary (for the very talented eles) Most panic and blow all escape CDs on inc.
All fine. But by the time you can kill the ele (good eles rtl out) you will loose the mid-node. That takes too much time.
True, but that’s not our job lol. We have 1 bunker at each node we want to hold (some maps not even mid is one of them) ele loats back and forth to support those 2 bunkers to hold point. Warrior and I go where the majority of the enemy is (Sometimes all but their 1 bunker hit one of our nodes, in that case we’d have ele/guard/warrior/and myself hit that node. With the crazy CC flying all over, the attackers are too impaired to effectively fight us. Warrior calls target, I lock em down, he kills.)
If we are not near a node and the ele wilsons to some random area, we have the option to just let them run. In the end, holding our 2 nodes and disrupting the flow of their players back from graveyard is all that matters.
If ele tries to bunker down, he dies, if he runs, we control the point.
~Shadowkat
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mckmzc9cmMhxmmMhxmx0x0amRbmsbV8kiQ70M7070M7kNc70m707owY
Couldn’t show it there, but I run Knight’s Gem in the Soldier’s amulet.
Both the might and lifesteal work for your allies as well as you.
I like different builds. As our core thief allrdy tested quite the same build, we saw it didn’t work cuz without any fast burst you won’t kill anything. So for this you need some other burst class. Also this build just work in teamfights. In a 1v1 you’re in a lost state.
Try to roam around with this build and catch an ele. Will never happen cuz conditions won’t kill the ele. Mabye you could name your setup so we get an impression how you fit in it. Like to see that. ThanksWe run 2x bunker guards 1x D/D ele, myself on thief, and a GS warrior. Ele floats between guards and GS warrior and I roam for PK. I fill the role of primary CC for the team.
I do win nearly every 1v1 I just don’t “insta-gib”. My dps isn’t shabby at all due to sword’s natural high auto-attack dps, and my ability to keep protection/regeneration stripped off my target. They pretty much stay locked down from venoms during the fight.
To summarize that for you. No portal = max 4 ppl on mid-fights. If the warrior gets shut down (and for sure he will) I doubt you will get smn down from your pressure. Also it’s easy to outroam your setup.
Still my question is how you handle a bunker-ele on your close? Your missing burst will destroy you.I rotate venoms out, (Basilisk on inc, I hit and force stun break, GS warrior charges/ throws GS with his basilisk to stone second time: I then pop devourer to immobilize while warrior hits 100b rotation, then I chill, then venom….generally, an ele is dead before i get to chill, bunker guards will require the full venom rotation.)
We only focus on holding 2 points, this build grows in strength multiplicatively by the number of allies nearby. Lack of burst is a non issue when your opponent is forced to sit there and eat all your attacks.
Any good ele will instantly teleport or mistform if he sees a warrior coming with 100b / a thief has basilisk up. So no you won’t kill him instantly. But actually i’d like to see that. If you play on EU-Servers then you can pm me. I really wanna see if this works.
still thank you for the description, appreciated that.
The whole point is we force them to use those CDs before we go for the kill. Won’t do the burst rotation til they are locked down. Often I’ll hold off on venoms and use infiltrator’s strike spam to force this if necessary (for the very talented eles) Most panic and blow all escape CDs on inc.
~Shadowkat
All I can say is, if you actually play a thief, try it for a few nights. (Takes a good bit to learn as it does have a high skill cap and practiced users of burst builds really have no point of reference. I ran burst before, so I’m speaking form experience, got my kitten handed to me for a good bit til I got good with the build. Now I can’t imagine going back.)
~Shadowkat
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mckmzc9cmMhxmmMhxmx0x0amRbmsbV8kiQ70M7070M7kNc70m707owY
Couldn’t show it there, but I run Knight’s Gem in the Soldier’s amulet.
Both the might and lifesteal work for your allies as well as you.
I like different builds. As our core thief allrdy tested quite the same build, we saw it didn’t work cuz without any fast burst you won’t kill anything. So for this you need some other burst class. Also this build just work in teamfights. In a 1v1 you’re in a lost state.
Try to roam around with this build and catch an ele. Will never happen cuz conditions won’t kill the ele. Mabye you could name your setup so we get an impression how you fit in it. Like to see that. ThanksWe run 2x bunker guards 1x D/D ele, myself on thief, and a GS warrior. Ele floats between guards and GS warrior and I roam for PK. I fill the role of primary CC for the team.
I do win nearly every 1v1 I just don’t “insta-gib”. My dps isn’t shabby at all due to sword’s natural high auto-attack dps, and my ability to keep protection/regeneration stripped off my target. They pretty much stay locked down from venoms during the fight.
To summarize that for you. No portal = max 4 ppl on mid-fights. If the warrior gets shut down (and for sure he will) I doubt you will get smn down from your pressure. Also it’s easy to outroam your setup.
Still my question is how you handle a bunker-ele on your close? Your missing burst will destroy you.
I rotate venoms out, (Basilisk on inc, I hit and force stun break, GS warrior charges/ throws GS with his basilisk to stone second time: I then pop devourer to immobilize while warrior hits 100b rotation, then I chill, then venom….generally, an ele is dead before i get to chill, bunker guards will require the full venom rotation.)
We only focus on holding 2 points, this build grows in strength multiplicatively by the number of allies nearby. Lack of burst is a non issue when your opponent is forced to sit there and eat all your attacks.
~Shadowkat
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mckmzc9cmMhxmmMhxmx0x0amRbmsbV8kiQ70M7070M7kNc70m707owY
Couldn’t show it there, but I run Knight’s Gem in the Soldier’s amulet.
Both the might and lifesteal work for your allies as well as you.
I like different builds. As our core thief allrdy tested quite the same build, we saw it didn’t work cuz without any fast burst you won’t kill anything. So for this you need some other burst class. Also this build just work in teamfights. In a 1v1 you’re in a lost state.
Try to roam around with this build and catch an ele. Will never happen cuz conditions won’t kill the ele. Mabye you could name your setup so we get an impression how you fit in it. Like to see that. Thanks
We run 2x bunker guards 1x D/D ele, myself on thief, and a GS warrior. Ele floats between guards and GS warrior and I roam for PK. I fill the role of primary CC for the team.
I do win nearly every 1v1 I just don’t “insta-gib”. My dps isn’t shabby at all due to sword’s natural high auto-attack dps, and my ability to keep protection/regeneration stripped off my target. They pretty much stay locked down from venoms during the fight.
~Shadowkat
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mckmzc9cmMhxmmMhxmx0x0amRbmsbV8kiQ70M7070M7kNc70m707owY
Couldn’t show it there, but I run Knight’s Gem in the Soldier’s amulet.
Both the might and lifesteal work for your allies as well as you.
I really appreciate you posting the build. Now everyone can try for their own and decide if it’s viable or not for him/her!
Thanks
Yeah, I totally understand the statement about thieves only having a GC place as it’s a very common misconception. Just give it a bit of open mindedness and see for yourself. It plays very similarly to any S/D build, just gotta be aware of team-mate positions relative to you to gain the most effectiveness with venom share.
I don’t know how well it would work in sPvP as it kind of breaks up teams. As with any good support build it only reaches maximum effectiveness when everyone is on the same page.
~Shadowkat
Doesn’t matter, ele (or any bunker) gets flattened before chance to react. Since I’m S/D I prevent revives with daze :-P.
I bet it’s fun to use man, nothing bout that. Being creative is a good thing.
But saying you can pwn a d/d ele if you use this build and team up with a gc gs warrior doesn’t mean anything, really. 2v1 should always be won, if the skill lvls of all 3 players involved are the same. If anything changes in that equation, then your statement loses any viability as to testament to the strength of your build.
That being said, your build can off course work very well in 2v2 or more large scale settings.
Still, I wonder what the partner of the D/D ele is doing, and I’m not talking about rezzing.
Bunkers are built specifically to hold points vs multiples. We were blowing up both ele and guardian bunkers without them having even the ability to react. Sure they’d have team mates, but with cleaves, and multiple charges, the venoms applied to them as well. Would mow down 2s and 3s if they were foolish enough to get caught in that cc spam.
~Shadowkat
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mckmzc9cmMhxmmMhxmx0x0amRbmsbV8kiQ70M7070M7kNc70m707owY
Couldn’t show it there, but I run Knight’s Gem in the Soldier’s amulet.
Both the might and lifesteal work for your allies as well as you.
~Shadowkat
Thief has way more than 1 viable build lol. We have builds ranging from full on tank to group support to conditions…….
Every class has many builds, the other question is if they are viable.
Condition thief is obviously not one of them, same goes for tanky thief (started laughing when I read this). Group support? (I’m nearly dying, please stahp)
Disagreeing on that my son?They are VERY viable, your narrow mindedness is astounding >.<
Tanky venom share build took our tPvP to 15 straight victories last night…..I’d call that viable both on the tank and group support front.
Did actually the thief only got you to the victories? Probably not – maybe it’s playable – but talking about being tanky you have to commit that other classes can do better than the thief
I’m not calling it a bunker, never did tank != bunker. Players tend to focus the thief in the party, if you want to provide group support you have to be able to take a hit. My build can not be bursted down by any known burst combo, hence “tank”.
And yes, the venoms were an integral part of the wins. When I logged for the night, the team started to lose matches.
~Shadowkat
Thief has way more than 1 viable build lol. We have builds ranging from full on tank to group support to conditions…….
Every class has many builds, the other question is if they are viable.
Condition thief is obviously not one of them, same goes for tanky thief (started laughing when I read this). Group support? (I’m nearly dying, please stahp)
Disagreeing on that my son?The question is viable for what. Reading your post I see clearly that you talk about tPvP. Reading the tanky build and group support and condi build – I think he was talking about hotjoin (sure you can be tanky when you are in stealth like 99% of the time – can you hold a node like that – no!)
For serious tPvP where you want to follow the principles of conquest there is only one build viable! (maybe one and a half :-))
Not all tank builds rely on stealth, aoe CC coupled with evasion works wonders.
~Shadowkat
Thief has way more than 1 viable build lol. We have builds ranging from full on tank to group support to conditions…….
Every class has many builds, the other question is if they are viable.
Condition thief is obviously not one of them, same goes for tanky thief (started laughing when I read this). Group support? (I’m nearly dying, please stahp)
Disagreeing on that my son?
They are VERY viable, your narrow mindedness is astounding >.<
Tanky venom share build took our tPvP team to 15 straight victories last night…..I’d call that viable both on the tank and group support front.
~Shadowkat
(edited by Adaneshade.2409)
Would like to add my newly created “Venom share tank” build. Crazy high survivability and great group utility (possibly the strongest sPvP build I’ve ever run).
PvP:
Same traits with 5x soldier and 1x guardian rune, stacking crit sigil on all weapons, and Soldier’s amulet socketed with knight’s jewel.
~Shadowkat
Thief has way more than 1 viable build lol. We have builds ranging from full on tank to group support to conditions…….
~Shadowkat