Guild Wars 2

Have you tried turning your back to your opponent before using FS? It causes you to roll inside their avatar for nearly 100% chance to land it.

swinsk.6410:

ensoriki.5789:

It’s called distracting shot and shadow return.
If you have Sleight of Hand then Steal.
What you’re saying makes no sense…Previously you could stealth quickly to prevent being eaten up. Stealth when? After being hit by Bulls? Wot?
You don’t need stun breaks. Just cripple them and at worst just play the field with Inf strike.
Generally warriors run Leg specialist if they’re serious about that HB burst so they don’t have to rely on Bulls charge to kill you. Otherwise you don’t have much to worry about.

You can also evade the rush with Flanking strike… screw it over with Black Powder, dodge over him with Death Blossom…
Since you do S/D + D/D. Just play Inf strike.

If you have no stun break up and you just blew shadowstep to avoid death and a warrior comes up to you and you know you are going to BS/HB you can chain a cnd or two to get away and either run or distract.

After change, warrior will have 3s to flatten you and he really only needs 1-2.

You are making the assumption that you’re fighting a DAGGER THIEF. Sword is what the more experienced thieves play, due to the things we’ve been trying to list for you guys.

Evidently he’s never fought a thief that know’s what they are doing. Which, sadly, the odds are in favor of that occurring; as there are way more bad thieves than good ones.

swinsk.6410:

Adaneshade.2409:

If you are playing your thief correctly, in a fight vs a GS warrior, Shadow Return is NEVER on CD. If you’re still running a glassy dagger build, then death is deserved.

You obviously don’t play a warrior because I make thieves blow shadowstep on inc.

I run sword/shield + gs with 5s weapon swap timer.

I simply get in close, use my sword adrenaline skill to root them, swap to GS and use HB without frenzy/bc. Either they shadowstep away or die to HB. Root lasts 4.5s and HB takes 3.5 to cast, so it’s long enough to hit the entire combo.

This will make 90% of thieves drop shadowstep to get out of it. Then I just wait for HB CD and and bull charge them to death next time the pop out of stealth.

Not referring to the utility skill, Sword’s #2 does the EXACT SAME THING and is never on CD.

The skill to port back to starting position is called [Shadow Return], just like it is for [Shadow Step]’s secondary.

Use infiltrator’s strike on inc > warrior attempts burst > return > infiltrator’s again > repeat next time he attempts burst. If warrior is smart enough to wait out the timer on return, evade through then infiltrator’s back. It’s possible to have that on 100% uptime.

I play S/D primarily and haven’t had a bit of trouble with flanking strike landing. ESPECIALLY vs a bunker which is a very sedentary build by design in order to maintain control of a point.

swinsk.6410:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

err…if a warrior bull charge, steal from his teammate to get out of range…yes you can activate steal while KD’d. Besides, what’s your teammate doing allowing a thief engage first? sigh

Please, use examples from smart thieves, not from bad ones, because it only further reinforcae the fact that this change will weed out the baddies.

And the same thing can be said about thieves who use Cnd->CnD, learn to adapt to it like you have suggested for bull charge/frenzy/hb.

There is nothing a thief can do about bull charge/frenzy/hb when all of his utilities are on CD. He dies. Previously, he could try to stealth quickly before getting eaten up, but now warriors and other classes will have 3s to apply CC and kitten the thief.

Warriors who frenzy/bull charge/hb on inc vs. thief obviously don’t know what they are doing or don’t play a thief.

In sPVP, thieves will be much easier to kill without the extra stealth. I think the biggest hit to thief will be in sPVP arenas.

If you are playing your thief correctly, in a fight vs a GS warrior, Shadow Return is NEVER on CD. If you’re still running a glassy dagger build, then death is deserved.

Burl.9567:

playandchill.3908:

i want the kitten blog.

Mr Loew ?

http://kittenblog.tumblr.com/

LOL Touche’!

Just goes to show, you can find ANYTHING on the internet.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

ensoriki.5789:

Got no problem with it.
Lol at dodging Eviscerate with Flanking strike. Oh I bet dat war was mad as hell. Feels good man. I would like if it removed a 2nd boon on the final hit but that’s just me.
Only thing with S/D is the off-hand ain’t that great right now. Dancing daggers doesn’t pull as much weight, but other then that it’s quite fine. Flanking strike is hardly what is holding it back.

err, CnD -> Tactical Strike “ain’t that great”? With Flanking Strike, you can be a really annoying Thief compliment with Sleight of Hands.

Try teaming up with a GS warrior, you lock the target down he blows them up. Stupidly effective at killing everything from mobile eles to bunker guardians.

Well, I can speak from experience that everything Ensoriki has stated is correct and…

1. Which mode do you play more?
(I play them pretty equally)

2. Do you play S/P in WvW?
(No I play S/D as does he, so he stated.)

3. Do you solo?
(Almost exclusively, with the occasional duo. I avoid commanders and the rubbish that follow them.)

EDIT – credited the wrong individual with stating correct data.

Slamz.5376:

Adaneshade.2409:

PS. - Please do bring your “red is dead” group. Some of the funniest moments in WvW are a bunch of duelists from separate servers teaming up to wipe the group of noobs foolish enough to attack them. I’ve seen 5 to 1 odds go down like a prom dress vs good duelers.

Equally funny — tells from duelists/crossteamers saying “please stop killing my friend” or “stop stop stop stop sopt tsop stop tpos” as you wipe out their little buddies.

Sorry* if I can’t go up to every battle and say, “Pardon me, gentlemen, but I see the two of you are fighting. Might I inquire as to the nature of this battle and whether or not it is consensual dueling or perhaps a fight with which you may prefer my aid?”

Easier just to kill em all.

I don’t go around looking for fight clubs to break up but they are uninvited interlopers in a WvW environment.

(* – not really sorry)

I don’t know where you “claim” to find these guys. But I assure you they aren’t the organized fight clubs we’re referring to.
I guarantee you that you hit one of MY fight nights and you’ll find yourself a quick waypoint home.

Edragor.9164:

Its ok to split XP equally between all participants (…otherwise support-char would be missing out on rewards…), …
…but the post sounded like everyone would get 100% credit and that doenst work for pvp.

…if a single player being worth 100XP died and got “flagged” in-fight with 2 other enemies…XP for each HAVE TO BE 50XP.

On a sidenote:
The rewards for capping objectives in WvW should be split,too …imho, it would deincentify zergs and karma-trains even more.

You’ve basically just stated what many of us have been trying to say. I think you agree with us whether you realize it or not :-P

With the currently planned system, if a player is worth 100xp,
-1 person kills them, they get 100 xp
-a 40 man zerg kills him, 40 people get 100xp

Sounds just ludicrous to me.

OMG, frelling, haven’t heard that one in a while…… Farscape right?

I would LOVE to see the equivalent to Aggramon (some of you will know what I mean) added in. With land bridges from all 3 BL and EB leading to it. (The separate queues could be managed by having a zone in portal.

No waypoints on the island. You’d have to do the “walk of shame” to get back to the battlefield. (Immunity for 15 seconds after zoning would prevent portal trolling)

I think there is some confusion here. Easymode only made 1 post that was equivalent to “nope l2p”. Not sure where “continually” comes from.
It just goes to show that, while well laid out, your idea simply is not what many thieves find to be an acceptable fix.

Slamz.5376:

pixieish.9627:

What’s this? Some people are duelling in WvW for fun?! How dare they!

It’s all good. As long as they don’t mind it when, occasionally, a “red is dead” group comes through and wipes them out.

Red-is-dead always has right-of-way in WvW.

I can see where it would be annoying for someone by themselves to say “Oo look, an enemy attacking an ally! I’ll go help!” only to find the ally stops fighting and lets them get killed because he was “interrupting a duel”. This sort of thing is why you’ll see duelists get a lot of disrespect in this and every other game.

It’s a tough lesson, but it was learned. Most of the time the duelists will tell the interrupting player to stop, and give them the choice to live or die. They ignore the warning, they die.

PS. - Please do bring your “red is dead” group. Some of the funniest moments in WvW are a bunch of duelists from separate servers teaming up to wipe the group of noobs foolish enough to attack them. I’ve seen 5 to 1 odds go down like a prom dress vs good duelers.

What about shadow return when fighting a warrior? Not to mention, in my build at least, that GS warrior noob combo MAY take me to 25% health even if I just eat the whole thing …. MAYBE.

kiwiburner.2186:

Malediktus.9250:

declan.3968:

Izzy Katsu.6024:

I think this might just make the whole thing worse. Now we’re going to have zergs that hunt people instead of towers and it’s basically just going to be a big gang kitten to get more points.

I don’t really have any ideas for solutions atm, but I imagine someone out there probably does.

What’s wrong with this? Not everyone plays WvW to flip keeps and towers.

Easy to fix: Give tons of points for flipping or defending stuff but few for kills.

^^ This. And tweak outmanned slightly so that world xp rewards are buffed. This will avoid everyone joining the zerg in their BL/EB and send people into the enemy BLs.

I think the volume of whinging would be twice as loud if they decided to award xp on contribution to the kill. Everyone would re-roll dps builds and squeal about how unviable their tanks were for WvW. Every design decision by anet has been based on making sure you’re not directly competing with fellow players when you’re co-operating with them. Why should they abandon it now? Besides, all serious WvWers will probably unlock what they need pretty quickly (I can’t imagine it being as laborious as the SPvP rank grind).

Too much QQ here.

No one has asked for contribution to the kill. We just say assign a value to be divided by everyone in attendance, regardless of what % they did. You hit the target you get an equal share to everyone else who did.

If you are the ONLY one who hit the target, you get the full value.
If there are 2 of you and 1 does 90% of the kill and the other only 10%, they both still get 50% of the total.
Scale that up to zergs.

You have sword, use that Infiltrator’s Strike/Shadow Return, man. I find I don’t even need stealth with over half of my encounters if I use that properly.

Silke.1695:

After conferring with Grand General Walken and Supreme Commander Busey . (In reality they are both drunk as lords sitting in a back booth at the ‘Spread Eagle and Whippet’ pub on EBBL). They have both suggested for FA to enlist none other than General Bruce ‘Badazz’ Campbell to fight for your servers cause!

Post of the year right there!
(Still wincing from the soda burning my nasal passage.)

ensoriki.5789:

Got no problem with it.
Lol at dodging Eviscerate with Flanking strike. Oh I bet dat war was mad as hell. Feels good man. I would like if it removed a 2nd boon on the final hit but that’s just me.
Only thing with S/D is the off-hand ain’t that great right now. Dancing daggers doesn’t pull as much weight, but other then that it’s quite fine. Flanking strike is hardly what is holding it back.

I dunno, having that ranged snare has prevented a couple of escapees in the past. Quite frequently after a warrior will do his “wilson charge” GS bit I’ll follow with infiltrators strike to close the gap then nail them with dancing dagger’s snare to get back on them.

Flanking Strike, in it’s current incarnation, is kind of a “dummy check”. Those who can’t pull it off are probably not ready for that weapon set as a whole just yet. It should stay as is.

buki.3108:

GW2 is not a competitive game, but the player-base wants it to be. The game was designed to be casual… which is disappointing. GvG is popular because it is the closest thing to competitive PvP we have.

Wish i were at the ANet meeting for this conversation:
Dev 1 “I know! Let’s create a game and market it as being skill based to attract players who are more interested in player skill than gear differences.”

Dev 2 “Yeah! and let’s make is super casual too. Everyone knows that players that value skill LOVE super casual gameplay.”

./facepalm

While I do agree that the majority of top end PvP players already understand that the thief is pretty balanced. I have to be concerned by the “viewpoint” of the masses.

I must be concerned because ANet must. If 90% of their playerbase is unhappy about something; fiscally, they MUST make changes to accommodate. However, if players manage to change the “perception” of the lesser skilled within the current META. We may save ourselves headaches down the road.

Niim.9260:

Jscull.2514:

My last comment for all the fine 8 manners in here (now made into 5 manners with the worst group size in mmo history) is why don’t we put our 5 man guilds in the same tier and fight every night? My 5 guys switched to Henge because our home (NSP) had like 3-5 other 5 mans that ran every night. Now we fight them and have 1000% more fun…. Why have we not just called a tier land of the 5 and run BLs with our 5 mans seeking the other 5 man guilds?

I honestly think us old folks remember things in a subjective manner when we think of the old 8v8 fights in DAoC. Was it great, yes without question. I really enjoyed the player driven honor system around smaller scale fights. I loved the challenge going against tough groups.

But if I want to be honest, I also remember that most of the time there was 1-2 teams better or equal to us and were fun to fight, the rest of the teams you stomped, and overall it became the same thing over and over again. We still spent more time fighting zergs than we did other 8 man and really, who doesnt miss extending a zerg

THIS, OMG THIS!

The current mechanics (see aoe cap) prevent extending from working. Imagine if a couple of staff ele’s could lay down their chill fields and it actually affected everyone crossing it (the return of Speed Warp nodes ^.^). That combined with swiftness would eventually string a zerg out to managable sizes. The zerg foolish enough to chase dies a slow painful death.

kidbs.8920:

Why not just take these fightclubs to an empty spvp server? If you’re just dueling then that’s the best way to do it.

Interruptions are actually MORE frequent in sPvP (blame it on a funky “join random” system that seems to favor nearly empty rooms to nearly full ones). Plus any builds there have no real connection to builds one might run in WvW for their gank group / solo build. Dueling is simply, for most, a means to test out new builds vs opponents that have fully mastered their class.

OK, how’s this…

ArenaNet already thought of this. That is why they implemented Flanking Strike’s ability to ignore block functions. We can’t give everything to dagger builds or there’d be no diversity at all. Simply having us hit through block is too easy, players should be expected to be able take A and B and make C with it.

Sure Flanking Strike’s first hit sucks. But it does provide an unblockable vector to carry some poison or other effect to the target. In addition, it will strip a boon off (let’s say regeneration, or maybe even aegis itself).

The use of basilisk venom with sword builds is a very good combination as sword kind of focuses on CC, so it’s not so far out of the realm of possibility that a player would already be using that venom.

I do not mean for this to come out as personal attacks against you, rather an attack on the current idea of what a thief is or “is forced to be”. I think the thief community will have to better itself through use of “off the wall” ideas if we are ever to generate respect for out community.

We are viewed almost unanimously by players as an “unskilled” or “trash” class that requires no thought to play. I’m simply trying to show that the class has potential to use thought processes more advanced than simply increasing damage output, or in this case making attacks ignore functions without having the player make a conscious decision to do so.

It isn’t really a suggestion, though. Just another QQ thread by someone using a very linear build, my point is; built properly, the thief has a counter to EVERY ability.

Posts like this are the reason everyone assumes that thief is incapable of anything more than “moar pew pew”.

Scumbag Mawile.6384:

Or maybe I’m just soft and not a hardcore archduelist like yourself and should keep my filthy peasant zergling mouth shut. :vvvvvvvv)

On this point, we can at least, agree.

evilapprentice.6379:

Adaneshade.2409:

Two words……. FLANKING STRIKE!

Time to take the training wheels off and play a real build.

Only the first strike on flanking strike (The kittenty one, that hits only slightly harder than dancing dagger in a power crit build) is unblockable – the second more powerful strike (the one that only occurs after your evasion has ended, btw) is blockable.

Also, considering the extremely poor pathing of the skill, you might want to leave the training wheels on – seems like it needs it.

How about popping a venom before using it? You land the venom (let’s say basilisk) guy is turned to stone and can’t block. His CD is burned and he’s screwed.
Think outside the box.

Clovis.7386:

The casting time for the active needs to be shortened. No argument.

So long as it isn’t placed on an internal CD…..

Scumbag Mawile.6384:

Adaneshade.2409:

Scumbag Mawile.6384:

Best thing you can do is try running with a small group of your own so you can wipe any of the little kittens doing it.

WvW is for WvW. Since it’s the token response to anyone who has a problem with in-game content on these forums… If you want to duel, GW2 isn’t the game for you.

Better bring more than one group :-P

Players that frequent fight clubs are in the top % of PvP ability and most are easily able to dispatch 1v2 or even 1v3 odds when encountering zerglings.

Yeah yeah, because you never run into solo fights in WvW.

Thing is, zerglings aren’t everyone who runs with a zerg. Karma/coin/influence piling isn’t the only reason I do large-scale PvP; it provides oh-so-many opportunities to stomp people in interesting and entertaining ways.

Every moment spent ikittenerg is one where you aren’t honing skills vs opponents who are at the top level of gameplay. Running in zergs makes players soft.

Blitz of Spades.1960:

yeah. they really need to fix the mechanics of the skill. it always rolls to the side and just misses.

Turn your back to your opponent before using it, will land the 1st strike almost every time, and you can re-position before second strike.

Two words……. FLANKING STRIKE!

Time to take the training wheels off and play a real build.

Scumbag Mawile.6384:

Best thing you can do is try running with a small group of your own so you can wipe any of the little kittens doing it.

WvW is for WvW. Since it’s the token response to anyone who has a problem with in-game content on these forums… If you want to duel, GW2 isn’t the game for you.

Better bring more than one group :-P

Players that frequent fight clubs are in the top % of PvP ability and most are easily able to dispatch 1v2 or even 1v3 odds when encountering zerglings.

Daecollo.9578:

PopeUrban.2578:

Nope.

Signet of Malice is specifically designed to reward high hit volumes. Normalizing it as such simply makes it an overall worse heal than the other two rather than a situationally better or worse heal.

Thieves already have the best variety of unique heal skills, and all three of them are already very good at their intended purpose whilst simultaneously sucking when that purpose is not met.

• HiS: Awesome when you’re not revealed, kinda crappy when you are. Worse against CC if you haven’t traited for condition removal in stealth.
• Withdraw: Awesome when you’re not bleeding/burning/poisoned/conditioned to death, kinda crappy when you are.
• Signet of Malice: Awesome in target rich/high hit volume scenarios, kinda crappy against single targets/low hit volumes.

This makes heal selection actually important as a skill selection on a moment-to-moment basis, and Anet has repeatedly said that they want and intend for us to be swapping skills between fights based on the situation (similar to how all of GW1 was designed specifically for you to need to swap skills between areas or for PvP group composition.)

Asking for SoM to be good at something that is counter to its design just plain weakens SoM and actively removes rather than adds build options and combat maneuvers that are the sole reason it’s worth putting on your bar. You’re expecting SoM to “just work” rather than having to “make it work for you” and this isn’t how HiS or Withdraw work either.

I’m not saying what it wasn’t or was intended for, but by statistics alone not many people use the healing because its only good for those things, and the high hit volume specs and attacks are rather low.

A lot of traits back then were also designed for high hit volumes, however even they were changed as well to have 1-second internal cool-downs.

The thief isn’t what it was back in beta, its changed a lot since then, and our high-hit-volume attacks are not used as much.

The system I placed, does add a cool-down, but it also lets the thief have a viable build from using everything, and not just “some-attacks.”.

They want SoM to be a better heal, because honestly its not very good, but they can’t just buff the heal amount because of some of our high-hit-volume attacks. The internal cooldown will resolve that issue.

The changes proposed would absolutely DESTROY my build though. I DEPEND on SoM’s lack of CD on procs to survive. The reason fewer people use it is due to the fact that most people google the same “Flavor of the Month” (have to type that out now thanks to fractals >.<) build which involves little to no aoe tanking.

Ironvos.9014:

Well, atleast now we will see them running away, instead of guessing every time they stealth whether they are preparing a new attack or just ran away.

I never run away from a fair fight. If my opponent is by themself or has only one ally, I’ll hang around whether or not I lose the fight, they earned it.

BobbyT.7192:

Daecollo.9578:

Adaneshade.2409:

It’s already probably the best S/D tank heal in the game. Traited, it’s cooldown is only 12 seconds and it gives you a 5 stack of might. Combined with sword’s cleave proccing it up to 3x per attack makes it just perfect. We already have 2 good large castable heals, these changes would only pigeon-hole our class further.

Any smart player would realize that it has a hilariously long cast-time, making it prone to almost all CC, which is why nobody in tournament play would ever use it as such. Withdraw is almost 100x better then it is atm for that.

Any smart player would realize they have a long cast-time, and take steps to protect it.

Not to mention, you rarely NEED to cast it if you’re playing right, you aren’t getting hit much.

Spiders Spiders Spiders.8043:

Adaneshade.2409:

- S/D “not alot of damage” … rofl, I’m in full on soldiers gear and still pump out 12k + in a burst with this build, stealth is only used to set up an interrupt…chaining stealth one after the other isn’t really required, OR the best way to play this even now

A burst in S/D? You need to practice your trolling.

Everyone will just hop on to D/D. Do the rotation, dodge, dodge, disabling shot, SS, etc bye bye. Nerf to stealth? Second best thing in the list is just not be there anymore. Which is what glass D/D does. Hard to see where all this is going to remove the skillless rotation macroers. If anything it turns everyone into one of them.

Please explain to me how someone uses disabling shot with D/D? lol

- 3.5k mug, 1.8k + 1.8k + 4k hasted auto chain (x2 in 2 secs literally) [12k is WAY conservative], is off before anyone can react.
It is a simple matter that sword thieves are superior in every aspect to dagger in PvP.

Samhayn.2385:

Malediktus.9250:

Zergs are good. I prefer leading a zerg of 50-80 people in WvW than a small group.
I hate WvW guilds who think they are worth more than a large zerg. A good amount of commanders on our server are zerg commanders and it works well. We are currently top 5 of EU servers.

Sure zerging can be fun for some people. Most of us don’t even care that people Zerg. The problem comes in when it’s the only game in town and then overly rewarded to the point that doing anything but zerging is pointless.

I would rather have a system that the Zerg can go take keeps and towers well knowing that the havoc groups will do there best to make sure supply camps are capped and we are out there killing reinforcements and harassing the opposition.

This is all I’m asking for as well. I don’t want zerging to be absolutely killed, there are players that really do enjoy that playstyle. I just don’t want my playstyle devalued to encourage theirs.

Cactus.2710:

Stiv.1820:

I think some of us are just at a disconnect with Anet and their overall progression mentality. We want a DAOC style system that rewards quality over quantity. It’s just not going to happen. All they seem to care about is progression for the sake of progression, even if it’s meaningless.

Progression is the easiest and cheapest way to pacify the mindless, which of course covers the majority of people doing anything any place any time.

What burns me up is all throughout development this game was hyped as the “player skill matters” PvP mmo….then we get this, development of individual skill is not incentivized AT ALL.
Running ikittenerg is so much faster for progression, both the current titles, and the progression as stated in upcoming patch.

jkctmc.8754:

style.6173:

Let’s look at thief builds:

1. P/D – This set-up will be dead. Most of the damage is from the CnD, and then the sneak attack. Not viable anymore
2. D/D – “Bunker” build – This relies a lot on the perma stealth from CnD. Build not viable
3. S/D- Again not really viable. There isnt a lot of damage from this build. It’s mostly a hit/stealth/hit control spec. Build no longer viable.
4. P/P- Bad build now and will continue to be bad.
5. S/P- Great in PvE, but average in PvP/WvW

So that leaves D/D BS builds. That build will be impacted the least. Essentially ANET is forcing people into that spec.

Personally, I am fine with the stealth debuff, but there needs to be buffs in another areas at the same time

This is NOT true. I run a hybrid semi-bunker build that uses Sword/Pistol, with my only stealth being Hide in Shadows for its condition removal, not for stealth, and more often than not, I run Malice with enough crit to make Omnom Pies healing viable, and I dominate with this build.

Pistol/Dagger will be fine too. Four seconds is easily covered by one teleport, one dodge roll, and still allow yourself two seconds for essential attacks. Widdle down your opponent, rather than macroing a kill button that many have relied on with Dagger/Dagger.

You’re overexaggerating.

JKCTMC, you simply can’t argue with a guy as clueless as this…
- P/D ALWAYS uses sneak attack from stealth so ALREADY has revealed. Nothing changes for this build (still the “training wheels” ezmode build)
- D/D … well “bunker” and stealth don’t go together at all, the D/D “bunker” build relies on evasion using LDB, unaffected
- S/D “not alot of damage” … rofl, I’m in full on soldiers gear and still pump out 12k + in a burst with this build, stealth is only used to set up an interrupt…chaining stealth one after the other isn’t really required, OR the best way to play this even now
- P/P once again, only bad if the person using it is bad, it’s actually very solid if traited properly, doens’t rely on stealth, unaffected
- S/P another pro build that 99% of thieves will never be good enough to use, but has INCREDIBLE power in the right hands…doesn’t rely on stealth so unaffected

Vena.8436:

Adaneshade.2409:

Regardless of how “well trained” those 30 players are, 30 players should not be rewarded as highly as a soloer for objectives or kills. Less risk, less reward…….The way ANet is proposing to do this it’s Less risk, same reward (in fact faster rewards because a group of 30 can flip 4 or 5 objectives in the time a small group could spend doing just 1.)

Team game (guilds some would even say)…

…reward soloers more than teams…

…ok.

No it doesn’t at all. I’m suggesting that rewards for taking objectives such as Keeps that REQUIRE teamwork on a large scale be MASSIVE compared to those of solo content. I just don’t feel that taking a small objective intended for small groups with a massively oversized group should be very profitable.

Vena.8436:

Samhayn.2385:

I understand this and I also think its a bad idea that’s why I’m giving suggestions.

Stiv.1820:

Allowing zergs to tag people for full XP is a terrible design decision that will make this entire system meaningless.

And yet, no one bothers to address “what is a zerg”.

Are 30 well trained, fluid guild members all working in tandem a zerg? Or are they an army? How bout 50 of them? Is that a zerg yet? Is 30 vs. 30 GvG a ZvZ?

Might as well just go with the sandpile paradox in reverse:

• Are X guild members a zerg or are they a well coordinated?
  +1 to infinity where X is <1 than your definition of how many #s it takes to make a zerg a zerg.

Who would and how does one draw the line on “X is too many teammates, you’re a zerg”. I don’t consider the likes of my servers big, organized guilds running in groups (20, 30, even some 40+) zergs, I consider them a guild and a team. Yet, because we’re to assign some arbitrary distinction of “the zerg”… they suddenly aren’t going to be rewarded as if they were a team. How is such a thing fair? Why do two X0 vs X0 guilds going at it head to head suddenly being rewarded less for their efforts? Did the fight somehow become a lot easier when it was X*10 vs. X*10 people rather than just X vs X?

If you want to break up the zerg, add more incentives for scouting (or, as the sword change did, more punishment for not scouting). However this is a difficult balance because its often times impossible to discern a scout at a keep from an afk at said keep.

I would rather see this game be something we all (wvw community) can enjoy and not the rest stop on people’s way to TESO or CU.
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edit: Seriously Anet, reconsider this. It’s going to be a big make or break it point vs this game and TES.

Stop this already, you cannot compare a game that exists as bullet points and in a mystical ether called your imagination to a game that actually exists in purchasable media.

Regardless of how “well trained” those 30 players are, 30 players should not be rewarded as highly as a soloer for objectives or kills. Less risk, less reward…….The way ANet is proposing to do this it’s Less risk, same reward (in fact faster rewards because a group of 30 can flip 4 or 5 objectives in the time a small group could spend doing just 1.)

Nuzt.7894:

Adaneshade.2409:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Hmmh, a bit boring. Means I need to buy my thief new gear and just spec for glass cannon or p/d then. My mesmer benefits from this though, as skilled thieves were the only counters for my build. :P Well, p/d ones still are.

Skilled thieves don’t need to chain stealth, sry you’ll still have problems with us. :-P

This about sums it up in a nut shell. The Thieves that are crying are the ones who can’t seem to wrap their heads around why a class should not be able to dominated due to a terrible mechanic. Good thieves will still destroy people because they actually use more then 2 abilities and think about what they are doing. Bad ones, well, they are going to kick and scream because their 2 button god mode was taken away and now have to actually fight players that can see them.

I find it funny personally, I have an 80 geared thief and I was terrible at it, yet I could still completely dominate 90% of the people I fought using CnD/BS. Now if I play my thief I will probably get owned alot, as I should because I’m bad at the class.

It’s a familiarity thing. Even if you arne’t the strongest thief player now, it’s likely due to little play time on it. I’m currently at 1200 hours played on my thief and have found that (through TONS of practice) it is possible to win a 1v1 and never use stealth; just very difficult.

This is vs duelers built and practiced to 1v1, going sans stealth vs a bad player is not even a challenge.

Any smart player would cast it while stealthed…… so some of the CD is used up while invisible >.<

Right, but they JUST said they weren’t doing that.
Instead they’re paying the same whether you take an objective with 1 or 100 players.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Adaneshade.2409:

Matt Witter.6982:

We will have much more info on World Ranks very soon! In the mean time:

1. Everyone that helped with the kill will get full credit for the kill.
2. NPC’s are not worth World Experience
3. I can’t give all the goods away just yet!
4. Yes.

Is it your design philosophy to encourage zerging in WvW then? I’m just trying to gather whether you want zerging to be the de facto method of gameplay or if you’d rather see zergs break up a bit.

Rewarding players equally for zerging or taking the more challenging small approach seems to encourage zerging above small group play.

It’s their design philosophy to encourage teamwork. Giving players higher rewards for smaller teams would discourage teamwork and lead to solo capping/farming builds.

Teamwork has it’s place, taking a large keep, can’t be done solo it REQUIRES large numbers. However, I don’t feel that a 50 man zerg rolling over a supply camp should be paid the same as a duo taking it, not even close.

Matt Witter.6982:

We will have much more info on World Ranks very soon! In the mean time:

1. Everyone that helped with the kill will get full credit for the kill.
2. NPC’s are not worth World Experience
3. I can’t give all the goods away just yet!
4. Yes.

Is it your design philosophy to encourage zerging in WvW then? I’m just trying to gather whether you want zerging to be the de facto method of gameplay or if you’d rather see zergs break up a bit.

Rewarding players equally for zerging or taking the more challenging small approach seems to encourage zerging above small group play.

I find confusion (or any condition) a joke with so much condition clearing…..

Karolis.4261:

Op just cant afforf 8-10 silver/30min for foods…

His problem, not mine… Maybe if he used foods, he’d get more kills and die less so earning more money and paying less repair. :-P Food easily pays for itself.