Why Harmonious mantras trait if there is no mantras being used?
Because there is nothing better to take there and you will occasionally be wanting to use mantras in some circumstances.
Anything that does anything is literally better than Harmonious Mantras with no mantras.
If you take Mistrust, at least you’ll get confusion when you happen to interrupt something. Or DE, you’ll at least be able to get an extra clone if you happen to want it.
Just swap to HM if you equip a mantra :P
Its primary use is as a launchpad for a well rotation. This way, you don’t have to drop Well of Action or Time Warp first to increase the full well rotation.
It can also be useful to mantra/well builds, if anyone tries such a thing.
It also sets up a really easy/effective res tool in pvp, with Well of Precognition. Drop the well, and for 3s you’re invulnerable while you res 50% faster.
To be more clear, I should point out that you can’t really get more condition damage than you can with Rabid (maybe Dire, with a tuning crystal, but eh). So any tradeoff of durability for damage will be to add some power into your mix for direct damage.
That said, Viper might be the closest thing condi has to pure glass. It loses precision (less bleeds) and some condition damage, but gains condition duration and a strong amount of power. It’s possible that the condi duration will outweigh the lost condi damage in raw power, but no one’s done the math on that yet.
You said yourself in your OP that you didn’t actually do the math comparing the two on condi dps :P
But more importantly, a Rabid playstyle tends to rely heavily on Sharper Images, which is raw crit-fueled. My point was that it is easiest to swap in Sinister pieces, because nothing changes on the crit front, you’re just swapping some durability and secondary condi damage for power.
In the end, your assessment that mixing Viper and Sinister so you exactly hit the duration cap is likely best is correct. My pre-HoT build was sitting at about 95% condi duration, so I’ll be swapping in enough Vipers to get 25% condi duration, enough to make up for the nerf to food and the last 5%.
Shatter builds are actually sitting in an even easier position regarding Viper/Sinister, as the 33% confusion duration trait makes it easier to hit cap on the condis you actually use.
In the end though, it’s gonna take full-build math to really determine what the best mix is. As you say, you can start taking alternatives at various points. Might Signet of Domination outperform Signet of Midnight if you have Viper? Or Bursting outperform Malice? Or Earth outperform both?
Etc.
Edit: all this said with the understanding that Viper is currently not actually working :P
I get the off/def portion but I am constantly shattering. After I see the three dots fill, I wait long enough for the last ones attack and send them in. I find that with the reduced CD time on all the staff I can keep it going longer. I guess if I were to switch, I would need to go to my OH more (which is sw/f).
Regarding OH, I actually like scepter/pistol but I find that I still really like the iWarden. If I am in a situation where I need reflect, I can drop him and throw FB on my bar without much changing on my original build
Yeah, I can see that. Though, if all you’re after is shatter chains, Deceptive Evasion will serve you better anyway, perhaps.
The last ability on the rune is terrible in my opinion when you could be using max dps with strength. But if you want to make everyone slightly faster for two seconds by giving up a lot of damage be my guest. Still surprised the rune is hovering around 4g 50s. You would have thought people would have unlocked it by now.
The quickness does not apply to everyone, just you.
And StM still needs 2 clones!! =/
….Do you mean IR? Because StM is working just fine…
To be more clear, I should point out that you can’t really get more condition damage than you can with Rabid (maybe Dire, with a tuning crystal, but eh). So any tradeoff of durability for damage will be to add some power into your mix for direct damage.
That said, Viper might be the closest thing condi has to pure glass. It loses precision (less bleeds) and some condition damage, but gains condition duration and a strong amount of power. It’s possible that the condi duration will outweigh the lost condi damage in raw power, but no one’s done the math on that yet.
Sinister is a more clear trade-off with Rabid, so it’s easier to get used to. But Viper is a strong competitor, no question.
Indeed. II would like to see its cooldown go down to 20 secs by default and the bounce is foe-ally-foe. But if the alacrity will make it too powerful for it to have a lower cooldown, then at least change the bounce.
They didn’t worry about that for all the phantasms that have lower cooldowns, and it’s currently weaker than all of them.
I say lower it to 23s, and give it 2 burn stacks instead of 1. The math says it’ll be just about the same place as iDuelist, maybe a little ahead on condi damage, but way behind on physical damage.
will sceptor AA clone replace phantasm? will tat affect much?
Yes, it does. And it will only have an effect if you’re getting 3 phantasms up often. Which just depends on you, really.
Why is Rabid better than Carrion when using a condition/shatter build? I have always used Carrion but am returning to the game the past few months after a year or so off. I know I will eventually get to Sinister but I feel like Rabid Or Carrion will be better for my playstyle as I prefer some HP or Def. That said, I may not ever make it to Sinister because I just never like berserker or assassin gear… too squishy for me
- total damage mitigation is greater for toughness than for vitality except against conditions, but condition builds are usually mitigated best by cleanses and team play anyway. As a high-hp class, Mesmer isn’t in the position Ele and Thief are, needing to pad their hp counts to survive bursts.
- Chaotic Transference converts 10% of toughness to condition damage (only relevant in builds that use Chaos, which is harder to do with chrono).
- They are running a staff build, which means using Sharper Images to turn clones into killers.
- Even without considering clones, Sharper Images enables using iDuelists for strong bleed dps.
- Rabid gives better reflects.
Thanks for the info. This is similar to the build i would like to run but I dont see Chaotic Transference being better than Chaotic Dampening. Because I tend to stay on staff more than my sword/focus I like to have the cooldowns on staff.
I am still trying to figure out my build but it sounds like if you are going to condi/shatter chrono in PvE and dont care for that meta build with s/s and s/f, then Rabid is still going to be the way to go
Chaotic Transference is an offensive choice, while Chaotic Dampening is a defensive one. iWarlock does little damage in a Carrion or Rabid build, so Chaos Storm is your only offensive skill that benefits from the cdr. Even then, it’s on a long enough cooldown to not be all that much of a benefit dps-wise. I’ve been toying with both, and I can’t decide which I like better. For a Sinister or Carrion build, that’s obv a no-brainer, but for Rabid…yeah.
As far as stats, as I said before, I’ve found that mixing in some Sinister has been nice. It cuts the value of my Undead runes (don’t have a nightmare or berserker set yet) and Chaotic Transference, but meh. In fact, dropping Chaos for Chrono has made that an easier choice. But in exchange, I’ve been able to hit harder when I need to with Confusing Images and iDuelist, which is very nice.
Can we make Phantasmal Mage a good skill? It is the worst phantasm, used only kittenter folder. What is more, 30 sec cd? We are now well into the third year when this phantasm suck, IMO it is time to change that.
QFT
so for traits its chaos/illu/chrono? and if i will be shattering whenever theres 3 illu, and using chronophantasma,i need to summon phantasm rather than clones?
Dueling(1,1,3)/Illusions(2,3,1)/Chrono(2,2,3).
And no, you’re not automatically shattering whenever there’s 3, that’s just how you get a burst going. You balance illusion attack time and cooldowns with shatters, using shatter chains to unload quick damage and bleeds from phantasms/clones to apply straight dps.
In particular, make sure to let your phantasms get off at least one attack before you shatter them.
Why is Rabid better than Carrion when using a condition/shatter build? I have always used Carrion but am returning to the game the past few months after a year or so off. I know I will eventually get to Sinister but I feel like Rabid Or Carrion will be better for my playstyle as I prefer some HP or Def. That said, I may not ever make it to Sinister because I just never like berserker or assassin gear… too squishy for me
- total damage mitigation is greater for toughness than for vitality except against conditions, but condition builds are usually mitigated best by cleanses and team play anyway. As a high-hp class, Mesmer isn’t in the position Ele and Thief are, needing to pad their hp counts to survive bursts.
- Chaotic Transference converts 10% of toughness to condition damage (only relevant in builds that use Chaos, which is harder to do with chrono).
- They are running a staff build, which means using Sharper Images to turn clones into killers.
- Even without considering clones, Sharper Images enables using iDuelists for strong bleed dps.
- Rabid gives better reflects.
Most people already used it
Reference, please.
I do have a much better alternative. I have a build that works. It’s 100% based 1vX roaming. I play on magumma on the off hours. I am permanently outmanned. Having a build that works is a huge deal.
Sweet! What is it?
I would like to use a similar build, which gear stat combination would be best for solo/open world play?
Start with Rabid, and transition to Sinister as you become better with your active mitigation and timing. Just replace one piece at a time, as there will probably be a balance point between Sinister and Rabid that works best for you.
Eventually you’ll be confident enough to go back and reevaluate whether you want to go full hybrid (full sinister, Viper, or whatever), and then you can start planning out your ascended gear.
I use the same build, roughly. Though, I do use my pistol/scepter more than you seem to. In particular, I have a Sigil of Corruption on my scepter that I always stack before I swap over and focus on staff.
There are two main aspects that I’ve found so far in the swap to chronomancer:
1. Shatters are king. I do a lot of workhorsing and kiting with my staff clones, but when you really need to do a lot of damage now, chrono has amazing condi shatter support. Learn to use chronophantasma and illusionary reversion to maximum benefit, and you can unleash a full string of 3/3/3/2 illusion shatters, for 19 confusion applications and 15 torment applications without too much difficulty. Confusion/torment may be weaker in pvp, but at those levels even slower mobs die pretty fast.
2. Shield is amazing against HoT mobs. The alacrity/slow from the iAvengers is actually pretty great, the duration of the blocks gets you some strong sustain time, Tides of Time is fantastic, and the abundance of iAvengers makes for really strong shatter food. I’ve actually found myself using scepter+shield even after I’ve got my Corruption stacks, though I still use staff for champs.
Incidentally, I finally found a champ I can’t solo: that one in the Temple of Balthazar in Auric Basin. He ate me so fast I crossed paths with myself heading to go fight the champ in the Temple of Balthazar :P
Into the Void: Fantastic, and exactly what everyone who liked the goal of the original change wanted (that is, everyone who didn’t like the pull-past effect). This should resolve it to the best possible result for the new approach. If it’s not good now, it never will be without reverting completely.
Avenger: yes, this sounds like making iAvenger more like iSwordsman in how it works, like how many people were asking. At a minimum, it should mean he’s not facerubbing his target anymore. The last couple days I’ve found myself annoyed that I can’t always see my iAvenger because he’s standing inside the mob.
Seize the Moment: beautiful. Just what I and many others were asking for. This finally makes StM competitive with Chronophantasma in several of my builds…still a tough call though. Exactly as it should be.
Overall, I’m very happy with this changes.
Bad spec/ bad video.
This is how NOT to play a dire Mesmer.
There’s an assumption in your post that there is a “way” to play a dire mesmer, and this isn’kitten
But…you don’t supply any alternative, or reason that this is the case? The last video you posted was before chrono release, so I’m not sure how I can place any stock in your assertion based on your history, so I have to rely on the things you say.
So…what makes your declaration any different from any of the unfounded bullkitten that we hear from random warriors and thieves that cross through the forums looking for a fight?
Furthermore, Ross isn’t proposing some superior approach, he’s posting a build that he’s been trying and having success with. I mean, he’s explicitly going out of his way to try something different, and that’s all the post is.
If he’s having success with that, what grounds do you have to say that it doesn’t work?
Maybe you have an alternative that is so much better it makes his build a wasted effort?
On the other hand, Chaotic Dampening + Alacrity = good times.
For future reference, the actual cdr/final cooldown with 100% chaos armor and alacrity uptime is:
Phase retreat: 54.6%/4.5s
iWarlock: 58.4%/7.5s
Chaos Armor: 60.6%/13.8s
Chaos Storm: 60.6%/13.8s
You were the person who said that heavy armour was needed to melee, not me.
Since we don’t have heavy armor or the mitigation/sustain of those other builds (outside chrono, of course), I’ll go ahead and suggest you’re being pedantic here.
You’re responding to a tangent right now, not to the main thread. When considering what weapon the mesmer should be given next, it doesn’t make sense to ignore half the primary weapons that the mesmer already has.
Que? The point of the main thread is specifically to complain about having 5 offhand weapons and only 2 mainhand weapons. It’s right there in the OP. So we’re talking about MH weapons.
It’s the discussion of the next elite specialization that is a tangent, raised in service to the idea of using it to make up for the lack.
On the other hand, it does make sense to ignore the ‘flaws’ with those weapons, because papering over base class flaws is not the point of elite specialisations.
There are two schools of thought on this. One is an idealistic approach that says the best way to do things, the other is a realistic approach that says “this is what we’re probably gonna get, so start advocating for a better version of it now”.
The idealistic view is yours. And as I noted in both my previous posts, fixing scepter would mollify me.
The realistic view looks at Chronomancer and says “well, clearly they’re willing to use the elite specs to fix base class problems. What problems can we fix with the next elite?”
Both are technically correct points of view, with millenia of history behind them.
Unless a future spec locks out off-hand sword (and possibly torch as well), or we get it replaced with off-hand dagger, we aren’t eligible for any more main-hand weapons besides the axe and the mace. So we’re going to have to start getting more two-handers sooner or later.
The idea that you can’t use a smaller mainhand than offhand is:
1. An inference that may or may not be true.
2. Easily subject to change.
We have a ranged greatsword. They can change what they want. Maybe they’ll give us a mainhand focus.
If next elite gives a two-hander, I agree that it should be a melee weapon.
So…hammer?
Rune of the Berserker for condi hybrid of any kind (Viper, Sinister or Rampager).
Have you done the math to support that?
I’m currently using just enough viper for +15% duration and the rest sinister with 5 nightmare + coral orb. Gives me +60% duration (15 viper, 15 nightmare, 10 malice, 20 signet) and 90% with food.
If berserker runes are better, Ill swap the rest of my sinister armor over to viper for the full +20% (think its closer to 21%) it gives.
Oh, no, I haven’t compared Nightmare’s 15% duration to the Berserker bonuses.
That’ll be an interesting comparison, actually. I may do that tonight.
I was just making an assumption based on the size of the bonuses, and the comparison I did before between Malice and Bursting (Malice won, but not by too much) for PvE.
A quick rundown of the differences…
Nightmare+Orb:
- +14 condi damage
- +20 precision
- +14 power
- +15% condi duration
Berserker:
- +100 power
- +5% damage
- +5% condi damage
For power, Berserker nets 86 more power.
5% condi damage is actually unusual, because unlike Bursting it’s not directly increasing your condi damage stat. To compare without doing the whole build math, we’ll need to find out the % increase from 14 condi damage and compare that.
And the result is…insignificant at 1900 starting condition damage (bleeds gain 0.6% damage).
At 1000 starting condition damage, 14 condi increases to 1% damage for bleeds. That barely increases by the time you get down to the 700 crossover point (below which you’re doing less damage with conditions than pre-June). So that’s at least 4% condi damage increase in Berserker’s favor.
So now we’re comparing the 20 precision and 15% condi duration to 4%-5% condi damage and 5% damage.
20 precision is almost 1% crit chance, which without any ferocity is about a .5% damage increase and a 1% increased proc chance on Sharper Images.
So let’s say that’s a wash with 1% damage in a hybrid build, and drop Berskerker’s bonus down to 4%.
So now we’re comparing 15% condi duration against:
- 86 power
- 4% damage on attacks and reflects
- 4%-5% condition damage.
While it’s possible the condi duration will come out ahead, my first-blush is to say Berserker’s probably comes out ahead in that calculus.
Edit: this is all assuming they fix the condi damage piece of Berserker, of course.
Rabid/Dire Condi is still good.
Ross just shared a condirupt build designed for WvW that he’s been having some success with.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Condi-Dire-Chrono-WvW-Roaming/first#post5712440
There’s been some talk about chronos actually being useful in zerg. You’d run full Assassins for reflects, take Mantra of Pain for tagging, convince a Herald to let you in their group, drop tons of quickness on the raid with Tides of Time, and use wells to get as much aoe as you possibly can. I haven’t seen any solid examples, but some mutterings from people who seem to like it.
Rune of the Berserker for condi hybrid of any kind (Viper, Sinister or Rampager).
Rune of the Nightmare for full condi (Rabid, Dire).
Rune of Perplexity for condirupt.
That said, if you find your damage to be bad when you run Assassins, I suspect you won’t find Berserker to be much better.
They’re pretty dang close as it is.
Neither weapon has even one skill that’s actually a melee attack, even if they can be more useful up-close.
I said effective. Giving it a range of 1200 is meaningless if it’s too weak at that range to be worth using.
As for whether we’re a melee class or not, there are far squishier things than mesmer out there that almost specialise in mixing it up in melee.
D/D ele? The build that can scrap it up because of eles built-in sustain and because celestial actually works on ele?
Reaper? The build that has a tanking ability (death shroud) built-in to the spec?
Thief? The class that has several times as much stealth access, a new spec built around extreme dodges, and dramatically more engage/disengage mobility than mesmer?
Mesmer is a mid-range champ, and its design doesn’t really permit more than that.
Lastly, your comparison of ranged to melee weapons is flawed at its root. Yes, of our four primary weapons, 3 are technically ranged (my objections aside).
But we’re not talking about primary weapons. We’re talking about mainhand weapons.
Of our two mainhand weapons:
- One is melee.
- One is ranged, but punishes fighting at range.
Furthermore, the “ranged” mainhand weapon interferes with one of our primary builds (phantasm) by overwriting phantasms with clones, making its use a detriment to any build that relies on phantasms (any “ranged” spec by design, as other specs all need to be in close to get the most out of their shatters).
If we’re getting a new mainhand weapon, it needs to fill a need. We don’t need another melee mainhand, that’s what sword is for, but we do need another ranged mainhand—or we need scepter to be fixed.
I won’t call Greatsword a ranged weapon until all its abilities are reasonably effective at range.
I won’t call scepter a ranged weapon until its basic attack doesn’t get slower the further you are from your target.
And I won’t call mesmer a melee class until we’re in heavy armor :P
As it is, 2/2 of the mesmer mainhand weapons are only useful up close.
If they fix scepter, I’ll sing a different tune.
In SPvP Mantra of Pain has absolutely no place in the top tiers (if you don’t care about top tier, play with whatevery build you have most fun with).
In Zergsfights (WvW and PvE) this might be different.
Yeah, that’s what I meant. This really sounds like something spotted in WvW, not sPvP.
How many mantras? If it’s Mantra of Distraction then it’s just Lockdown.
It’s usually the heal, distraction and pain.
Each for their own reason, I would imagine.
Heal because there’s a preexisting dogma that mantra heal is the only heal worth having. This is silly, of course, but it’s based on the fact that Mantra heal still does the best heal-per-second.
Distraction because interrupts and lockdown. This is a staple of many pvp builds.
Pain because of ranged aoe damage, and having competitive dps with sword. Pain still doesn’t make a lot of sense on a pvp build, but you do see it in WvW where mesmers struggle with tagging.
In fact…are you sure this is sPvP, not WvW? In WvW you could be adding some aoe to your heals with all mantras via Inspiration, tagging with Mantra of Pain, and daze/interrupts with Mantra of Distraction.
As for legitimate reasons, I could kind of see a front-loaded chrono build that relies on ending fights fast with a two-burst setup. Unlike the classic shatter mesmer, which tries to hit you with a sudden burst and finish you off with follow-up before you can recover, this one would plan for two bursts, a sort of one-two punch.
Drop the opening shatter+everything burst, use Mantra of Distraction to interrupt recovery efforts, Mantra of Recovery to stay alive while your alacrity works to bring your cooldowns back up.
By the time your MW is back, you’re up to full illusions again, you’ve got more stacks of Harmonious Mantras, more stacks of Vulnerability, and you unload your entire battery again, adding in Mantra of Pain. The second hit is significantly harder than the first, but the first was just softening them up for the second blow.
Such a build would be Dom/Duel/Chrono, I think. MW cooldown would be 7.2s, I don’t know if that’s too long for the plan to work, or if the loss of the element of surprise isn’t worth that, or if Distraction just won’t be enough to keep them from recovering/bugging out.
(edited by AlphatheWhite.9351)
@Ross: Interesting. I had intended to try out something similar but great to see your take on it. Though I got a few questions. Why did you pick sword/torch over a staff? I haven’t really done WvW with my mesmer so I don’t know the torch well but I would have thought that the staff provides great synergy with condition builds. I also noticed that you didn’t pick up PU in your 2nd build where you changed to Chaos despite using both torch and mass invis. Is it no longer worth it to use PU compared to the other traits?
@Alpha: I like your suggestion with Chaos instead of Dueling. I had probably been overestimating the worth of BD and I have been uncertain about how much the bleeds on crit adds, but I certainly see the value that Chaos brings. Still, you meantion staff clones so I was wondering if using a staff instead of sword/torch made it worth using Dueling instead of Chaos.
Well, in this case the issue is one of focus.
Staff Clones apply the same conditions as the Staff AA, so staff clones are a viable source of bleed/burn. However, that comes with some caveats:
1. Without Sharper Images backed by a reasonable crit chance, those condis are not very competitive (SI is about 1/4 – 1/3 of the dps from staff clones).
2. The clones have to attack. If you’re shattering your clones faster than they can attack, then you’re not getting your investment out of them (and they attack slower than you do).
3. Full dps relies on the staff bounces hitting your target twice, or at least hitting enemies on the bounce (for aoe). The boons from hitting your allies are not nearly as valuable.
But with Dire gear, dueling falls off because Sharper Images isn’t doing much. The staff is likewise affected, you’re losing dps.
Add to that, alacrity means Confusing Images is coming off cooldown well before the swap cooldown, and you’re losing scepter dps by swapping to staff.
So instead, you grab a torch and rely on the iMage to make up the difference (since iMage’s dps is roughly equivalent to a SI’ed staff clone). Chronophantasma helps, as you’ll get more out of the iMage than you would out of a clone during a shatter rotation, and definitely more than you would out of an iWarlock.
The biggest loss really is Chaos Storm, which is a potential aoe interrupt…but shield does that better anyway.
Edit: I’d like to also point out that the original build with Dueling could gain some mileage by swapping torch for pistol. Rely more on shield for your defenses, trait Duelist’s Discipline to supplement Sharper Images, and use Magic Bullet to get more interrupts. And since you’re interrupt oriented anyway, you’ll be getting iDuelist and Magic Bullet off cooldown a lot, especially as swapping out torch means you’ll be able to grab Persistence of Memory. So iDuelists will be getting a lot of volleys, and will potentially be a really strong source of shatter fodder. That makes Mistrust more valuable, as the constant refresh on Magic Bullet gets more frequent interrupts, and the icd-less Mistrust will gain some ground against Perplexity.
It’s a more offensive build, but really enhances the interrupt synergies.
(edited by AlphatheWhite.9351)
There is cleanse and there is constantly adding another condi stacks.
Same thing burnguards were saying about “just CLEANSE”. Trick is fact that this is not oldschool condi necro that droped condi bomb on you and then throwed more “lesser” condis to make sure you wont cleanse them. Old condi was way more skillful. You had to pay attention to enemy evades and cleanses. NOW ITS ENEMY that needs to pay attention to condis cuz its so easy to apply and so hard to actualy negate.
Same kitten over and over in this forum, burnguards said thier build is “balanced” while stacking everlasting burns, you can cleanse once, twice, yet in the end you will get burned and you will feel the power. Same goes for other braindead condi builds.
Burn Engis are 1 trick ponny to counter cuz they DROP 1 insane stack then they have to wait for next powerspike, they cant drop 3 burns every 3 sec like burnguard.
ANd there goes Mesmer… Scepter + Torch + Staff allows you to constantly apply conditions, there is no “SUDDEN BURST” but there is also no no way to actualy cleanse everysingle condition this dumb build can drop on enemy.Speaking things like “you should run with shout guard or shoutbow in team” is also not new. I love when everyone! Even devs! Expect everyone to run with condi cleansing teammates only cuz they play broken kitten and easy builds like condi.
Thats why Condi mesmer should never get buffed, its bad for already sick pvp gametype. God kitten i remember days that out of 10 teams i saw in spvp 9 were 80% condi based + thief or shoutguard, everyone wants to abuse condis for easy wins and i cant blame you- mesmers, that you also want to have 1 click win button like guards, but sorry. Spvp got enough of this.
Guild wars has condis. They’re not going anywhere.
So…go play another game maybe?
You clearly haven’t done extensive research into Mesmer healing builds, or you’d know that Restorative Illusions only heals the Mesmer.
I actually realized that right after posting (when I went to see if I could make a decent healing build), but you’re totally right on that point. For what it’s worth, one of the passive traits in that same tree heals others whenever you heal yourself, so I guess it indirectly works, but it still isn’t very good.
But as I said, my overall point was more about the nature of the response more than it’s content.
The 10s ICD on that trait (Healing Prism) is what kills it. It really needs the same revamp as that engi trait that was in the same position.
So, without crit chance or staff clones, isn’t your spec into Dueling resting entirely on the strength of Mistrust and Blinding Dissipation?
Mistrust’s stacks are so low (relatively speaking), that it seems like you might get more out of either Domination or Chaos.
Chaos loses dps from Mistrust and BD+Ineptitude confusion stacks, but picks up dps from Chaotic Transference, Chaotic Persistence and Chaotic Interuption (might stacks). It makes up for the loss of BD blinds and dueling vigor by applying debuffs with CI and adding those lovely Chaos defensive traits.
Domination replaces the confusion stacks with extreme vulnerability stacking (one place where Rending Shatter might actually make sense) and boon stripping. Power block, meanwhile, compensates for the survivability loss of the BD blinds by applying weakness and recharge increases.
I just don’t see Sharper Images providing enough bleeds for your build to make up for the gains you’d make in Chaos or Dom.
As a tool for lockdown builds, that’s pretty sweet even at 3s. Get an interrupt with Confounding Suggestions, and you’ve got a cool 150 extra power on the rest of your burst. Not bad at all. I wonder how that compares to Sigil of Force, though.
More like 3 seconds then 5. But its still nice to have.
Tooltip says 3, so if you checked to make sure you’re actually getting 3, Mikkel probably had some boon duration going.
(i only say this because i fought a guy who i was constantly losing track of which was the real mesmer and who was the decoy)
Yeah, and I fought a guy who didn’t know how to dodge.
I’m guessing we both crushed the guy we’re talking about, but that’s hardly a good argument for how to play as you get better (since your opponents will be better, too).
And unfortunately, it’s been my experience that when you actually need an opponent to be hampered by trying to decide which one’s real, those are the opponents who aren’t hindered by it at all.
@Alpha, I run 4 wells and TW in PvE. It works out well because if I ever need that extra oomph on mobs (past Phant Phant Clone Shatter Clone Shatter), I can do Phant Phant Clone Shift TW Well Well Well Well – Well Well Well Well. This helps tremendously against groups of mobs, mobs that move around slightly, mobs that are difficult (slow, chill, and large damage) and also provides you with 32s of Alacrity giving you faster bursts and allowing you to move from target to target.
And yes, by just spamming the Wells, you can have infinite Alacrity. If you wanted to optimize your damage output, I would suggest starting a Blurred Frenzy and then Shift -> TW Shatter -> Well Shatter -> Well Shatter -> Well Shatter -> Well – Blurred Frenzy Well Well Well Well.
I almost always end on Heal Well although you can mix it into the middle somewhere (don’t cast it first because it won’t go off post-Shift).
I feel like you thought I was saying all wells can’t be good, but I can’t find anything like that in my post…
Here is something I threw togeather last night for WvW roaming.
It’s interrupt condi burst. All it does is smack out confusion, torment, and blind (pretty much). Have a gander over the trait choices etc and see the synergy between them, the weapons, utils, and gear. It might help give you some ideas.
That said, I’d change Protected Phantasms for Restorative Illusions on your build.
Hybrid can be really difficult to pull off well in WvW, and even worse in PvP. Give it a whirl and see how you go.
Is there supposed to be a link there, Ross?
so.. im guessing its the animation for alacrity.. ya know.. the pink glowy fire looking kitten? it kinda sucks dont ya think? you spam clones to hide in them and as you shatter them you glow and everyone knows which is the real mesmer.. kinda defeats the purpose doesnt it? or am i missing something?
No one’s fooled by clones anyway.
Hybrid condi will never be meta because we don’t have better access to burn. And because our main condis require actions to have increased damage.
Hybrid condi will never be meta because some people cry foul every time someone suggests a way to improve the situation for it.
(hint, you’re channeling those people right now).
Out of curiosity, why is Rampager’s not as popular? Is it due to not having enough condition damage compare to Sinister?
Yes.
That’s not to say it’s not effective, but it’s a very different playstyle from most condi, and yet also different from power. It really is more the “true” hybrid style, funny enough.
just to be clear.. i didn’t debate with woc damage being lesser than scepter aa… it was about scepter aa with quickness from stm is higher dps than staff auto attack without quickness in the sword build that you mentioned.. not to mention scepter auto attack also summons clones dealing torment again.. but if you consider retreat and warlock.. we’r talking about counter and confusing images.. and counter is only on a 8 second cd without alacrity being added into the mix.
we need to have 3 clones upkeep on staff for the dps.. we cant shatter and get the clones back without dodges.. it’s overall a dps loss than sticking to scepter and shattering once or twice in the 7-8 second window and counter atleast once and confusing images.. regarding our priority damage pressure coming only from shatters and weapons dont really matter.. which i strongly object with.. weapons do contribute a lot to the pressure.
you got the topic into my build when i mentioned i dont switch to staff and camp in scepter.. to which i answered.. unless chaos storm is out of cooldown.. it’s a dps loss in staff, that means i’m counting all the spells not just auto attack.
You haven’t verified your claims with numbers on the dps from those shatters, though.
Just because you don’t see value in a trait doesn’t mean it’s worthless. Chaos also had to use the trait to see its value.
I’m not giving up powerful utility for something I could get from a battle sigil.
I don’t see where you get off saying hybrid isn’t viable unless you are talking about PvE. Which was just given a boost in that staff clones live longer.
Please don’t use viable when you mean meta or say things about knees, it just makes you seem like the common exaggerators who infest this forum.
I am definitely talking about PvE.
And I’m certainly not calling it worthless. I’m saying that it’s not as important.
In Fantasy football (first year playing, hah), it would be equivalent to downgrading your Wide Receiver slightly in order to upgrade your Tight End significantly.
It’s useful, but it’s not the only option for the counterplay it enables. I’m suggesting that if we swap it out, it wouldn’t make any currently viable/meta builds unviable/nonmeta, but it could make currently nonviable/nonmeta builds viable/meta, albeit in a different segment of the game.
And that’s exactly the kind of tradeoff that I’m all for.
Are we ignoring sharper images? Because sword clones don’t die as easily anymore.
This is in comparison to scepter which has a slower autom
Unfortunately, since all three weapons can proc Sharper Images, the difference in attack speeds isn’t enough to make up for the loss of direct condition application.
I’m too lazy to go double check every class to check if it was actaully every trait but a lot of the ’stat x gains % of stat y ’ got added effects in the June patch. So adding something to make it a bit more appealing might help. Maybe combine it with Evasive Mirror, put the precision to condition trait in the now empty slot like suggested but also add confusing combatants to that trait as well.
The only one of those traits that does so is in Necro Curses, and it’s a grandmaster minor (13% prec→condi, +2% crit chance per condi on the target).
You may be thinking of the +150 condi damage traits. There are several of those, and they all have a secondary effect.
Evasive mirror has its uses during extended combat with ranged characters. Its not that we are hurting for reflects. Its that for dragons hunters you don’t want to get close enough to blind with a shatter.
I realize that, but it’s not like we’re out of options to deal with Dragonhunters. Ineptitude applies blind on evade, and we agree that we have plenty of other reflect sources to fall back on.
I’m simply saying that the loss of this particular tool wouldn’t be all that much of a loss, while a precision→condi trait would go a long way to making hybrid condi a viable build, without cutting off the existing condi builds at the knees.
I could see a case being made for adding a precision-> condition trait in Dueling, given that condi support is already heavily built-in to Dueling. Replacing Evasive Mirror, perhaps.
You was faster than me, we had the same thought. ;D
At least someone is on my side
Sinister already hinted at it, but Viper confirmed it: the devs are interested in strengthening hybrid build potential. Meanwhile, a strong chunk of mesmer condition support is locked behind a non-hybrid trait, but non-hybrid condi mesmer has been consistently nerfed.
A precision→condition or power→condition trait is right in line with the direction they’ve been going.