I was going to be happy with simply a lack of PvP nerfs.
QFT
I’d be honestly curious to see what sort of DPS a condi mesmer could make in a raid setting with these patch changes.
No change. Nothing changed about that build in this patch.
- The Prestige: The number of burning stacks have been increased from 1 to 3 stacks for 3 seconds.
- Illusionary Mage: The recharge of the mage’s attack has been reduced from 5 seconds to 4 seconds. Burning stacks have been increased from 1 to 2 stacks, with the duration reduced from 6 to 3. The missile velocity of the mage’s attack has been increased by 33%.
And just to clarify, I’m just curious, even though I know that mesmers won’t suddenly be viable as condi with this or anything. =P
Even with those changes, torch is still at least an order of magnitude lower dps than pistol, which received no changes.
To supplement, the sustained dps of the new condi arrangement is identical (6 stack-seconds of burn per attack), which means only the drop from 5 to 4 on period has changed. That’s a roughly 20% (?) increase in rate, while the Duelist was pumping out far, far more than 20% more dps than the Mage from bleeds alone, and an order of magnitude more physical damage with Viper/Sinister.
For my part, I like the changes. They might make me come out of mesmer retirement for a little bit.
I just wince at some opportunities they missed, like fixing Arcane Thievery, or making Phantasmal Mage actually competitive instead of just a little better.
I think what he’s saying is that if you made the aftercast so long that the projectile would hit by the time it was over, then distance from the target wouldn’t matter anymore.
It’s an idea worthy of being burned, banned, and burned again, but technically it would work.
Ah, I see.
Yeah, they could do that…OR…and hear me out…they could just change the mechanics to work like every other weapon.
what really needs to happen? the scepter chain needs to be SLOWED DOWN so that the chain cannot continue any faster in melee range than it does from afar, and then compensate with a boost to its damage
So, this wouldn’t fix anything.
The problem isn’t that melee is faster.
The problem is that the chain waits to attack until the projectile hits.If you slow down the melee speed, you slow down the ranged speed even more, because it still waits until the projectile hits to attack again.
The mechanic makes attack speeds at various ranges uneven by definition.
What needs to happen is making the attack chain work like every other attack chain on every other character in the game: attack at specific intervals, not related to where the projectiles are at.what? if each attack in the chain took longer to activate, the projectile would have more time to reach its target before the next attack, therefor chaining consistently at any distance
You misunderstand. The next attack doesn’t start until the projectile hits. Making that part take longer doesn’t remove the waiting period.
what really needs to happen? the scepter chain needs to be SLOWED DOWN so that the chain cannot continue any faster in melee range than it does from afar, and then compensate with a boost to its damage
So, this wouldn’t fix anything.
The problem isn’t that melee is faster.
The problem is that the chain waits to attack until the projectile hits.
If you slow down the melee speed, you slow down the ranged speed even more, because it still waits until the projectile hits to attack again.
The mechanic makes attack speeds at various ranges uneven by definition.
What needs to happen is making the attack chain work like every other attack chain on every other character in the game: attack at specific intervals, not related to where the projectiles are at.
Thanks, Mikkel. I’ll switch it out with Earth permanently then.
Also, am I correct in assuming Bursting Sigil is similarly useless?
No. Conditions are all sourced from you.
Earth still outperforms Bursting for dps, however. That’s just a math thing.
according to mesmer mains reducing the skill duration which practically is an unbreakable daze from 10 sec to 5 sec makes that skill really bad and apparently some mesmer mains even consider moa attacks being too strong XD
Where were U hidding yesterday Lexi, we missed U.
And to Your information, moa is really hitting harder, mostly in power builds. But most people is so cofused whent they are turned that they don’t realize this.
considering that power build wont explode instantly after being exposed to mesmer combo without having any sort of class defensive mechanisms
Yep I forgot to mention 5-button evansive skill and that U still can use your dodge. I will not remind bonus toughness in moa form. Still there’s no defence…
^ pretty much this.
Moa used to wreck me every time. I always panicked and pretty much expected to die.
Then someone on the forum mentioned that it’s actually pretty good (tougher, stronger, has an evade/escape skill). And I stopped dying to Moa. In fact, I’ve managed to kill a mesmer that moa’ed me, once.
Hello. Ever since the beta days Moa has been either REALLY good or REALLY bad depending on the game mode.
So cutting right to it, these are my proposed changes:Decrease duration from 10 seconds to 5 seconds. (Keep the breakbar burn amount)
While under the effect of Moa, you do not count towards point distribution.This will make it more of a utility tool in pvp instead of the complete cheese-mode it is right now. It will give mesmers a chance to neutralize points vs some of the more tanky classes.
All of this while remaining the 180 seconds cd ofc.Leave any feedback.
In short: “nerf it HARD.”
How about: no.
Yes, it works. When im moa’ed as a mesmer my Phantashmal Defender still activates if i have aegis.. Its funny tho.. Moa phantasm
In fact, last I knew, the Moa phantasm does lots of damage.
hold on, so simply because you have to plan which skills you use in the next few seconds before you get free cd resets on them makes F5 bad? or difficult to use? that sounds about as difficult as pressing 5-2 with d/p thief
Sounds like you haven’t tried it. It’s not that easy to use in any kind of firefight. Most often you get a couple good skills off and a couple trash skills, and then you get rewound. A really good preparation might pull off a full nova, but that takes some serious strategic prep, and a willingness not to use longer-cooldown skills while f5 is on cooldown.
Then also, you haven’t been talking about it like that, you’ve been talking about it like it just resets your skills, like some magic “press x to win!” button. Yeah, it’s not that. It’s good, but it’s not even close to that good.
It’s on a long cooldown, so it’s not something you get a lot. Think more “Daggerstorm” than “Basilisk Venom.”
You seem to have missed the part where I pointed out chronomancer gets no usable damage or defense traits. Let me reiterate. Chronomancer makes the mesmer hit less hard, and less able to take a hit. In exchange, the chrono gets extra tricks. No f5 = no chronomancer. No alacrity = no chronomancer. It’s hovering at the edge of optimal as it is, a little more nerf and people will just stop taking it in favor of solid damage boosts (domination/dueling) or durability (chaos).
It’s a good ability, but not THAT good.
in a single class which can also instantly reset cooldowns or speed them up
Yeah, so, that’s now how f5 works? This has been explained to you before, but you keep repeating it and I’m mystified why you think everyone on the mesmer forum isn’t aware by now that you’re intentionally misunderstanding the ability.
It doesn’t “instantly reset skills” the way you keep implying. It allows you to use skills during a window, which then get reset. You have to plan ahead. AKA, you can’t use moa and whatever the heck else, then pop f5, and whoo they’re back!
No, you have to activate f5, then moa, then you get it back…except no one in their right minds uses Moa again after that. So all it does is cut Moa’s cd down to the 90s cd of f5 instead of its 180s original cd, and only if you did a long enough shatter (at least one illusion up, probably 2-3), and only if no one breaks your rift before you get the moa off.
As for the skill cooldowns, you do know that Chrono has ZERO usable damage and ZERO defensive traits, don’t you? 100% Alacrity as it is now = 25% cooldown reduction. That’s pretty cool, but it’s the only numbers boost we get from the line.
Chrono makes you squishier, and/or it makes you hit less hard (sometimes both, if you’re a condi going without Chaos).
Your entire complaint is founded on a misperception of what the class and spec get, and what the cost is for that. And you’ve had these things explained to you multiple times, and you’ve learned nothing for it.
What a troll.
Wait wait, kitten is censored? Who the hell is offended by kitten ANet?
Just switch to Bork!
I wanted to say something snarky about all the people (like me) who were playing condi on day 1 of the HoT beta (before the rise of the chronobunker), but I really just found myself at a loss for words.
Thank you all for saying what I could not :P
with 3 of these up, you don’t really do more dps as clones can and will stack higher
Since June 23rd, 100% bleed duration with staff and 3 staff clones on a stationary target stacks up to 25-26 bleeds. I have demonstrated this result both experimentally and theoretically on multiple occasions.
During the same period (before they fixed Duelist’s Discipline), 3 phantasmal duelists with Phantasmal Haste stacked up to 31-33 bleeds, with a wider variance (dipping down to 28 and rising up to 35). Again, I verified these results theoretically and experimentally on multiple occasions.
In short, you are 100% wrong: clones can’t and won’t stack higher bleeds. This result is even more dramatic with the fix/nerf and now buff of Duelist’s Discipline. In tests I was hitting about 42-48 stacks of bleeds after the buff. That’s still not going to hit 30k ticks, but it is far and away better than clones.
also when you loose a clone you have no issue replacing it, loose a duelist? change target? need to shatter? and everything goes fubar.
Yes, I believe I addressed this, but neither it nor the rest of your post are relevant to your outlandish claim that the clone build has a better DPS than the iDuelist build. You didn’t bring it up as a better build, you brought it up to contradict the claim of high dps from someone else. But if the clone build is not the highest theoretical dps build (it isn’t), then it disproves nothing that the clone build can’t even hit 10k!
Don’t take any of this as a degradation of the clone build, that’s my main mesmer build. I love it, and have been running it since long before it was even really viable. I love the ability to safely solo anything in the Open World. But its dps really is terribad compared to other classes, especially these days.
lol 30k bleed tick.
you will get 3-4k IF you can 3 staff clones, optimal target spacing aka 1 enemy and other nearby, no more. and about 10-15 seconds to ramp it up. provided all the clones hit the right target and the bounces hit the right target, with a average of about 1k burn on that’s a total of 4-5k dps average.
now keep in mid best targeting scenario is rare so reduce the application by 50% and you have an average much lower so you looking at about 3k at wich point you can shatter spam making better dps from torment and confusion, but as pve things usually stay still and don’t hit much torment deals half potential dmg and confusion tick low and pve mobs don’t attack fast so not much dps from that either.
if he says 30k bleed ticks hes is wrong, if he says 21kdps hes wrong.
the BCS condi is looking about 4-6k RNG dependant + about 1kdps from staff AA for a grand spiffing total of a generously estimate of 5-7K DPS!!!!!! if you pray to RNGesus hard enough
Lolwut?
Max condi dps has been 3 iDuelists since June 23rd, even before they fixed/nerfed DD.
Staff clones aren’t used because they are higher dps, they are used because they have a shorter ramp-up time and lower cost of loss/shatter.
But iDuelists don’t just do more condi damage than clones, they also deal decent physical damage, in particular with the advent of Viper gear.
I agree that 30k bleed ticks is probably a gross exaggeration, and 21k dps seems unlikely even in an ideal scenario, but come on, at least learn the mechanics in play before you criticize :P
Some people think Trump’s not racist or sexist.
There’ s just no accounting for fools.
What class does Trump play?
He won’t say, but whatever it is, he assures us he’s a winner!
Out of curiosity what would prob be key areas and ways to implement damage like buffs to mesmer dps without going overboard? like how exactly would this class be buffed dps wise just raw % increases on skills or something more drastic like remaking how phants work and the contribution from them towards personal damage.
1. Increase AA damage across all weapons.
2. Allow phantasms to benefit from personal damage boosts.
3. Allow phantasms to survive the death of their target (#1 problem with the phantasm concept in pve, imo).
4. Give illusions in pvp the same hp as illusions in pve.
5. Decrease well and shield cooldowns to compensate for the nerf to alacrity. These skills (and no others) were balanced around the expectations of original alacrity. They just need a shave (4s off shield skills, 10% off wells).
6. Allow mesmer interrupt traits to proc on breakbar mobs even when they are not actually interrupted. But, only allow this to occur once per “interrupted” skill to prevent overuse (as opposed to implementing .5s ICDs for every interrupt trait).
7. Fix various weapon abilities that are stupidly bad. E.g. GS AA is weak as kitten; Scepter AA doesn’t attack til projectile hits; torch cooldowns are dumb and torch phantasm is dumb; Staff AA didn’t get updated when other condition weapons got updated; etc.
None of the above would increase mesmer burst much, which is surely what Anet is most leery of. It would also not totally fix mesmer, but it would help a lot with consistency, potential and usability.
The duelists discipline change was implemented on June 23, however it was bugged and only gave 1 bleed instead of 2.
It wasn’t giving any bleeds at all when it was bugged :P
Some people think Trump’s not racist or sexist.
There’ s just no accounting for fools.
As a side note, I recently read and posted on a thread in the necro forum where they are complaining about how do you beat a mesmer, and MOST of them are saying if its a good mesmer you have an uphill battle and will probably lose.
Considering i’ve seen people here saying the exact same thing in reverse, I was somewhat amused.
Well to be fair a lot of them only started playing reaper like two weeks ago.
This.
People still playing mesmer are going to average higher skill with the class, because they’re the nuts that just really like mesmer. People playing reaper are going to average lower skill with the class, because the pool is diluted by FotM players. Give them some time to catch up, and it’ll become fully clear just how bad it is.
I was referring to full condition thief, not power thief with less power damage traits.
He’s correcting for vulnerability wrong.
He takes the idea that he’s applying some vulnerability already, and “corrects” that up to 25% by multiplying by whatever extra vulnerability that takes.
So in the 10% example he uses a few times, he would be assuming that he already applied 15 stacks of vuln, then multiplies the measured dps by the remaining 1.1.
So DPS = (base dps) * 1.15 * 1.1. A base dps of 100, then, would be 126.5.
But that’s not how vulnerability works, as vulnerability is additive.
So it should be DPS = (base dps) * (1 + .15 + .1). A base dps of 100, then, would be 125.
Scaling that up to the 6900 where his “base” damage seemed to be sitting generally, his numbers would compute 6900 * 1.15 * 1.1 = 8728 dps with full vuln. But in fact, the real dps would be 6900 * 1.25 = 8625. That’s about a 100 point difference.
At the numbers we’re talking, 100 dps not a huge difference, but at least one of his comparisons brought the two builds within a hundred points of each other.
That is all, of course, ignoring the fact that he’s haphazardly guesstimating the vulnerability stacks instead of actually figuring it out, which is a potentially major source of calculation error.
His choice to pretend his allies’ damage made no impact on the dps was likewise probably flawed. Base stats are 1000, which is a fair chunk of damage in any case.
In all, his testing is highly suggestive, but his mathing has too many possible errors for the testing itself to be conclusive.
(edited by AlphatheWhite.9351)
Cuz it’s not about the condi part – it’s about the Mesmer. duh
So the reason I would want less condi, less dps and no hard stats increase on my team is because I would want to be in all pink instead?
Yes.
And also butterflies.
And clones.
Yeah, I have a very hard time believing this build will work well. Consider the following thought experiment:
During the bunker meta, Mesmer required a tanky amulet, precog, and high alacrity uptime for defensive skills to stay alive reliably in a team fight against other bunkers.
Now, most people are running builds that put out more pressure. Additionally, precog got removed and alacrity got a huge nerf. So the ultimate change is more incoming damage with less mitigation.
You’re claiming that you can just out heal the damage by spamming your mantra or something, and this makes zero sense. If it were possible to bunker by mantra spamming, people would have done it before. I tried it actually, it didn’t work too well because it’s very difficult to reliably sit there charging mantras in the middle of a team fight.
Anyway, if you provide some evidence of this build working against competent players I’d be more inclined to consider it as something worthwhile. Otherwise…pretty sure this is awful.
To wit, if it ever became meta, I’d try switching to Dondagora’s condirupt build and see how well they do healing with Mantra of Pain interrupted every time they cast it XD
Heya!
If you have no mainhand in the 2nd set, you’ll use the first mainhand, so you swap to it.
It’s not a flexible / good sigil tough, it forces you to completly mess up your rotation and you’ll not always have your skills rdy if you need them. The duration is also too short for a 100% uptime, so even if you swap at the right moment, you can’t support a full CS (F5) with it.
Better get your boon dura elsewhere. I suggest 5x surging + platin doubloon and bountiful sharps or simply leadership here. Those are the best runes you could have as a Chrono.Greez!
- Madame Le BlancI wouldnt say that, offhand sigils such as air are pretty useless on mesmer as it doesnt proc on phantasms at all.
Wut?
Sigil of Air and its ilk all have icds, to the point that the number of attacks it can apply to barely matters. All that matters is that you can attack frequently enough to consistently proc the sigil soon after it comes off cd. Attacking faster makes a bit of a difference, but phantasm attack rates are so low that it would likely not be a major factor even if they could proc the sigil.
It’s the flat bonuses that really suffer from not applying to phantasms.
Hold up. It does indeed matter. GW2 PvE is based around short, small scale missions that allow for disposable and re-areangeable parties. Thus, specialized is superior.
For instance, if I were trying to do a speed run of Arah, i would take a thief for avoiding mobs, and guardian for reflects against lupe. Have you ever tried running a speed clear of arah with a bunch of mesmers? The portal is nice for the ball part but otherwise it’s a mess.
For high level fractals, i would take two engineers for condi damage, a druid for support, and the rest tempests or warriors. Or a guardian for reflects. With the toughness nerf im not sure if alacrity is that vital. Correct me if im overreaching.
For raids, i would take 1 or 2 mesmers. The other 80% of the party would be tempests, druids, warriors and heralds.
In short, tempests, thieves, warriors, scrappers, druids, heralds, and guardians are like Mechanical, Software, or Chemical engineers. Solid choices, well rounded, and specialized.
Mesmer is like a math major with a minor in physics, economics, nanotech, and marketing. Looks well rounded on paper but good luck on your interview
This is, indeed, the argument that should have been made in the first place :P
(edited by AlphatheWhite.9351)
- Stealth – outclassed by thief
- High uptime on Reflects – outclassed by Guardian
- Boon distribution/extension – outclassed by Revenant
- Multiple Evades/Blocks – outclassed by Thief
- Conjured allies being its core mechanic (I like the flavor) – Guards, Necros, Eles, and Rangers have that
- Boon stripping and group condi cleanse – outclassed by Necromancer
- High availability of CC for mobs and destroying breakbars – CC on mobs?
- Group invulnerability – gone. nerfed. poof.
- Blinking/Portal shenanigans – blink is outclassed by thief, portal is good
- Cooldown manipulation (outside of Alacrity) – at the cost of running valuable utility slots
Next you’re going to bring up mantras without realizing that Thief has their own version of mantras too.
Disputing a “versatility” point by arguing that specialist classes do individual things better doesn’t do much for you :P
I actually used a build like this when HoT first released. Ill post it once gw2skills is back up. its down right now so i cant access my builds.
But yeah… when i posted it here, I got so much hate saying how interrupts and confusion damage wasnt “viable”. But it really is. the only thing this build would actually suck at is the boss fight, or anything which has a heavy breakbar.
The general Idea for this build is to get as many mobs in the path of shield 5 to activate mistrust as many times as possible. The shield hits everything twice and has no mob limit, so it hits everything, so the maximum amount of interrupts you can get is 2x#ofMobs and each one you interrupt applies 4 stacks of confusion to 5 mobs. It really can be devastating. I run this in pvp but I use to run it in pve, but I switched to chrono utility dps build.
This build is really fun to play so i say go for it and have fun. and again, ill post my builds for this once the site is back up.
1. Mistrust just got buffed. I.E., things have changed since you posted. When I put mistrust builds through there paces after that first video about decimating menders, I found it mostly inferior in pve, and still inferior in pvp (it just didn’t have enough oomph). Now, the pve situation hasn’t changed, but in pvp it hits decently harder, so you’re seeing other people give it another go.
2. “Anything with a breakbar” translates to “anything that matters in HoT” and “any boss in any content anywhere.” Which is to say, it still sucks bones in PvE, and is still only really useful for wiping out mender groups and giggling.
There are many, many ways to kill groups of mobs without breakbars, and while this one is hilarious and a fun power trip, it is quite irrelevant, as none of those mob groups are what really matters in existing content.
Staff on Berserker/Assassin is a defensive weapon.
The only offensive highlight is the iWarlock, which is the highest-dps phantasm if your target has…6 condis? That’s pretty hard to maintain on your own, and its hit rate is atrocious, so mobile targets aren’t so good for it.
Staff’s only strong offensive use outside of stacking iWarlocks is for clone-condi builds.
good for you, I am about to do the same, but to a reaper alt.
Is reaper decent in PvE? I’m mostly a PvE monkey so that’s why I chose ele. Was thinking about starting the HoT content with my necro though
Condireaper is second only to condi mes in soloing champs (and does it faster to boot).
It’s great for pvp, especially with the new changes. Corrupting boons in a boonstack meta? whoooo!
My condi reaper is competitive condi damage in raids, or at least, competitive enough to be worth bringing along.
<3 my condi reaper, it’s been my main since the patch, and was already competing for that distinction before.
Ieven in full rabid, you are pretty glassy especially in WvW where direct damage is incredibly high and condi Necros too can just blow on you and you explode.
At that point, I’d maybe just go full Dire. It’s not like I’ll get any more angry whispers in Dire than Rabid with a build like this. :P
“2/9 classes are balanced and the rest are too powerful” is a nonsensical idea.
Balance is only meaningful as a relative term. If the majority are powerful, and the minority are not, the minority are underpowered and the majority are balanced by definition.
…or kitten…
I’m really curious what this actually is. Those censors…
as tank you just use one piece of toughness gear and as heal-o-mancer you use magi / cleric mix or just full cleric.
1. I was under the impression your heal-o-mancer IS a tank.
2. One piece of toughness gear barely squeeks by in the most absolutely polished and optimal groups. More often than not, I find I have to create enough toughness clearance to accommodate things like traits that randomly add toughness (warrior?), or a druid that can’t afford zealots, or a guildie who isn’t optimally geared yet, or a couple eles who just aren’t quite good enough at the mechanics yet to get by without some pieces for durability. Even in my raiding guild, with a pug that showed impressive dps and more experience than I, I found I needed at least 1200 toughness to ensure clearance. You’re talking pretty hard against “meta” thinking, but you just declared as gospel one of the fundamental tenets of the meta (that you must gear as though everyone in the group is meta) :P
That said, I dunno why I thought there was Healing Power on Wanderer’s gear.
Edit: I was thinking of Minstrels, which seems to have the perfect stat set for a chrono healtank, except for lacking damage stats…which given our terrible dps, seems like a small price to pay for strong healing mixed with easy boon duration and plenty of toughness clearance for squad variation.
At this point I want to entrust something to all of you: The whole “this is meta, I need it, that is meta, I need that” stuff is poison, don’t do that. Think for yourself, don’t blindly do stuff you hear others do. I’ve always been ignoring the meta, just took it as a reference of what other do. If it was optimal sure I did the same, but I came to that conclusion myself. I sure was a terrible player in the beginning, heck I even leveled my Mes with Scepter/Focus + Staff on release x.x – but for today, I’m happy that I experimented so much and that I calculate the best options for everything.
I carry 5 full asc armor sets with me – one is open world kitten with chrono runes, one is kitten with leadership, zerk with surging, both for raids, and only a few weeks after hot I made the Heal-O-Mancer magi / cleric mix. I even have a condi gear with me, it’s not even bad to play condi mes since last patch.
I’d like to go on record that I don’t have my Commander’s gear because some consider it “meta” and others don’t, I have it because enough consider it viable (to the point of arguing that it’s meta) that I feel like I can get away with it. I have now participated in a wide variety of raid group skill levels, and I can say that it’s worth it to me having a set that can cover all my needs without worrying that I’m a burden on the group gear-wise on the one hand, or that I’m depending too much on under- geared/skilled teammates on the other.
(That, and I’m not as good a player as I should be, and I like using the toughness as a crutch.)
(edited by AlphatheWhite.9351)
Ok I did today a full run as heal-o-mancer, tanked and healed on both vg and gorsy, it worked perfectly fine. Good sustain for myself, many blocks, super aoe heal and still 100% quickness and alacrity.
Just Sabby seems a bit stupid since mop proc has low range and therefore i must stay melee, so anotherone has to go ranged. But maybe it’s enough with 500 HpS with just regen until the last phase, so I could just go ranged and summon phants for regen and spam wells.
I’ll definitly set up a guide soon _
Ugh, so now I not only have to get good at tanking AND applying alacrity/quickness, I have to get good at healing now too?
I’m never gonna reach meta level x_x
Edit: Also, I just finished 5 pieces of Commander’s gear…now Wanderer’s might be meta, and I’m gonna go broke XD
(edited by AlphatheWhite.9351)
Anet calculates mesmer DPS based on how much 3 phantasmal wardens can do
You got a source on that?
While I wouldn’t put it past anet to do something so bizarre (seriously, more often than not my target just moves away from the warden), it still seems a little off even for them to just pick one of the less-used phantasms as a gauge.
I’m feared that dat guys not even trolls…
Chrono was heavily nerfed ( even chrono shatter – alacrity, nerf, quickness stomp/rezz nerf, Sigil of energe nerf, etc) +buffed thief . I have feelings like chrono is low/mid tier now.Btw, Chip Skylark.2367 wanna try some BO5 where you on chono shatter (with moa) and me on any other class on your choice (build choice is still mine though)
I’m not trolling. These roleplayers are trying to use clever mesmer misdirection tricks on us to make this thread about trolling and not about how broken their class is.
And no, I don’t play mesmer. I don’t like the idea of hiding behind stealth/clones like a coward and using dirty broken tricks like Moa! Not my style.
Lulz we are all cowards now.
Do give it a try sometime, tell me how hiding behind those clones goes for you (hint: it doesn’t work).
And for the record, if you ask for constructive criticism then proceed to insult the very nature of every person you are talking at, “you’re going to have a bad time.”
I agree, moa every 50 seconds 3 times with Signet of illusions + mad condis ( 30 stacks of cripple, 25 immob + 5 stacks of fear + mad bleeds with all your phantasms that never die ) + nearly unkillable illusions + through the roof condis removals from inspiration ( and here I thought shoutbow was immune to condis ) + 7 to 8 ccs chained together + perma invis ( WTF is even the point of thief?!?!? ) + instant one shots on short CD ( alacrity OP who even thought giving only 1 class something this OP was good?!?!? ) + 25k health or MORE. I don’t see how anyone can defend this mesmer OP. The second they got a unique mechanic like alacrity is the second anet stepped out of the shadows and showed they biased towards mesmer ( not like we didn’t all know from launch mesmer is there baby ). Time for some other class like ele to get a chance in the spotlight plz ty.
i think i’m starting to realize, after rereading this trainwreck of a paragraph, that this is probably a troll
Yes.
Fry definitely knows mesmer much better than that XD
Time for some other class like ele to get a chance in the spotlight
Okay, this one got me. Thank you for the laugh XD
and nobody competent runs moa, only trolls; stop complaining about hotjoin gameplay.
Moa has been used in pro league multiple times this season.
Chronobunker was meta this season. Try again later.
Scrapper is meta now. Druid is still a thing. People will always find tanky builds. Moa will always have a place.
My point was that moa was being used by chronobunkers. Your complaint is about shatter. We won’t know how those are used in the pro scene until ranked starts up again. The news from the “pros” like Helseth is that they are not optimistic about Mesmer’s chances. This makes sense, shatter mesmer isn’t much better at this point than it was before June, and we weren’t meta before that. Other classes, though, are all stronger because of their elite specs, and our primary predators (thief, necro) have received very significant buffs.
I think that’s why you received such a negative response, though, because it really seemed like you might be trolling. Shatter OP? Most mesmer mains have been desperately trying to come up with builds that are even viable post-patch, and the results have been mixed at best. Even some of the more optimistic players have been pretty skeptical.
And that’s with games full of thief/necro FotM players who aren’t yet up to speed on what their new class can do. Once they catch up, and ranked starts up again, it’s set to get a lot tougher for us.
All of that, and you come in here insisting that shatter mesmer is a “trainwreck” in how op it is, and that Moa is the reason why? Naw man, the experience of mesmer mains right now seems to be that it’s getting really tough to play even shatter mesmer, and it’s just gonna get tougher.
and nobody competent runs moa, only trolls; stop complaining about hotjoin gameplay.
Moa has been used in pro league multiple times this season.
Chronobunker was meta this season. Try again later.
Mr. Obvious Mesmer Main.
You’re in the mesmer forum. How many people did you expect to come across your post that aren’t mesmer mains?
I certainly wasn’t expecting this much toxicity. Helseth is a bad influence on you guys.
1. The pot has no right to call the kettle black. Your entire approach to this thread has been hyperbolic and inflammatory. Phraseology like “this trainwreck of a class,” and your persistent dismissal of opinions as “oh, you’re probably just a mesmer main” are themselves toxic behavior. Don’t call for constructive criticism if you are unwilling to take criticism of your premises and try to understand it.
2. Don’t kitten where you eat. Helseth is a primary basis for your argument. Moving next to imply that he’s a bad influence undermines your point. It doesn’t help that AFAIK, the last word from Helseth on the actual state of the mesmer post-patch is that we’re out of the meta. Your own primary source doesn’t seem to agree with you. Not that Helseth being able to squish noobs means much at this point. He could dominate unranked with a cleric guardian.
Mr. Obvious Mesmer Main.
1. You’re in the mesmer forum. How many people did you expect to come across your post that aren’t mesmer mains?
2. How do you expect to have a “constructive” thread in a mesmer forum if you insist that people who main mesmer have nothing to contribute? On the contrary, the people who are best positioned to provide constructive criticism on a class are the people who main that class.
(edited by AlphatheWhite.9351)
Please stop saying self-alacrity should remain 66%…
- self-alacrity was OP in PvP for bunker specs
Since bunker specs are pretty effectively dead with or without original alacrity, what’s your beef with saying it should remain 66%?
You’re taking it out of context again, as though the other nerfs didn’t happen.
You’ve been doing that a lot over this.
I mean, can anyone here say when was the last time that after previewing changes from patch notes they changed a single thing from feedback?
The feedback on Feedback and some feedback on scepter AA seems to have been noticed.
I also recall being angry about the Duelist’s Discipline nerf (before we’d even got to try the unbugged version), and suggesting something very much like what they just did as a compromise.
Eh that “defence thru deception” part ain’t working against dumb NPC.
Fixed for you /15chars
NPCs are the only ones who do go for my clones. Their effectiveness at deception is totally irrelevant to that, of course.
For myself, I don’t want my clones running about or juking most of the time. But that’s partly because as a condi mes I put them in places where they’ll have more offensive value. Before the pet change, I would have been happy to have them move out of dangerous aoe, but that’s about it.
As it is, I think making illusions into true minions is the first needed solution. Every other minion works this way, and they’re not exactly freaking out about minionmancers these days (it helps that we have a cap on minions, necros don’t).
Furthermore, we are clearly not balanced around our ramp-up time, as long-term sustained dps isn’t competitive as it is. There’s no need to make a mesmer lose their illusions after target death, as there’s no need for a “downtime.”
alacrity cooldown = regular cooldown/1.3333…
which is also
alacrity cooldown = regular cooldown * 0.75
This is precisely the math that is in my post. Not sure what you’re trying to say here.
For perma alacrity:
New cd = Old cd/(1+alacrity) = Old cd/(1.3333_)
So MW = 12/1.3333_ = 9s
So perma alacrity is shaving off a second more than IC.
For less than perma alacrity:
Old CD – 1(time) – .3333(alacrity time)
For convenience sake, consider permanent alacrity to be equivalent (but not equal) to a 25% (1/1.33333_) cooldown reduction. Less than perma will scale down quickly.
If you expect to have alacrity for less than 75% of the cooldown of the skill in question, use the following formula instead:
New cooldown = old cooldown – .33333_(seconds of alacrity)
So how much alacrity makes mind wrack equal with IC?
12 – .3333a = 10.2
a = (12 – 10.2)/.333333 = 5.4
So at 5.4s of alacrity between every mind wrack, you will be at the same cooldown reduction on MW as IC.
+1 to this idea.
The only real loss is with builds that both liked iDuelists and the DE clone production. I ran one such build, but the swap doesn’t bother me either.
It’s also not a raw power grab in the sense that nothing is getting stronger…just different choices made available. Nothing in it would be directly overpowered, especially given how poor our damage is already.
It’s also very not fun to go from killing mobs in a reasonable time on my reaper/dd/druid/engi/zerker/dh to not being able to do so on my chronomancer.
Undertuned is underfun, and insistence that it doesn’t matter because it’s not competitive is just blind—or perhaps willful—ignorance.
so who gives a c*** if its not perfectly balanced
The people who drop me from raid because my mesmer can’t cut it on dps, so they’re taking another burnzerker instead.
Edit: Anyway, actually alacrity got nerfed by 37,5% rather than 50%.
This is only true in situations with sufficient alacrity uptime. If alacrity is not up the entire time a skill is on cooldown, then it’s a 50% reduction.