Guild Wars 2

Pets are fine, but there should be a 900-1200 range max…the fact that a pet can follow you across the map is absolutely ridiculous.

Mesmer clones are crazy squishy but you can’t just “pop” a ranger’s pet.

That’s because your nades are made in china, Ostrich!

Some of these screenshots of match making really isn’t all that bad…it’s a mixed bag for the most part…Unless you’re lvl 10s and 20s fighting all lvl 50s, that’s bad match making.

You have to understand it’s not all about levels too, it’s MMR which are individual ratings…the people you are playing with may have won games before your bad match…

swinsk.6410:

Mr. Big, I main a thief and I have no problem insta gibbing anyone. Especially if they have CDs and are pre-engaged.

Copy and paste link for build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmKO3aS8E/5Ex2DfqTe6VgsaPo5NbJA;TUAg0EctgYQxsAA

Pretty much you can insta gib someone every ~45s. After your burst you got nothing but shortbow and evades, no evades if you had to use haste on burst only init for shortbow evades or teleports.

IMO, builds like this are the only viable build for a thief in spvp now.

That would ONLY work in hotjoins…it’s a very old way of thinking pouring everything into dps with absolutely no survival…not even a stunbreak or refuge? Not to mention people can easily get out of that combo nowadays…a simple dodge or tele and you’re dead because you have no defense mechanisms what so ever, especially not with the new 4s debuff.

That would be the worst build for tpvp with a team.

Thank you for clearing that up Colin, much appreciated.

Per the patch notes:

“Leaderboards
We’re pleased to announce that Guild Wars 2 leaderboards begin recording data on March 26th.
Initially, the leaderboards will feature WvW rankings, PvP player rankings, and total achievement points—something for all player types in GW2.
As of March 26th, your existing scores will silently be posted to the leaderboards while we watch for the top leaders to stabilize. These scores will take into account some of your past accomplishments/rating.
Once stable, we will display the leaderboards for players. We currently don’t have an exact date for leaderboard public release.”

It will BEGIN recording as of today? Does this mean that the “data”, which I assume would be the mmr would reset as of today, March 26th? I don’t really see how it would need stabilizing if it’s not going to reset…you should have stability as of the last reset last month.

Please clear this up, thanks!

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Amaterasu.6280:

If they do 200/gems a day, they MUST reintroduce gems back into rewards via tpvp.

In the SOTG they said, gems aren’t intended to get back into PvP as rewards.

I get that, but they also never said custom arenas would be 200gems/day. You can’t even get gems via pvp anymore so it makes no sense that a exclusive pvp feature would use gems which pvpers cannot acquire unless they trade gold for gems…

That’s why I said they should reintroduce it if it’s going to be so pricey for a single day’s service.

Otherwise the cost is roughly $60/month to have a custom server. 800 gems for $10 in the gem store, which means it’s $2/day and roughly $60/mo. Who wants to pay that?

If they do 200/gems a day, they MUST reintroduce gems back into rewards via tpvp.

I do wonder what exactly will be shown in leaderboards…and if it’s just going to be as simple as “this person is this rank in the leaderboard” and that’s it? They did say that it won’t be showing ratings, but rather the W:L ratio…which imo is a very bad idea and it would really make the top people not want to play for fun and only play to win – which means the top people will continue to only group with top people.

Side note: It would be cool if you could sort the leaderboard by specific class, etc.

Totally agree dude, I just wanted to make discussion. I enjoy threads like this, minus the side drama.

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

nice well thought out reply but you didnt say anything really positive about the thief how did you come up with a 6.5? what was that number compared to?

remember you need to take in account can it back cap can it hold nodes and can it neatralize against someone then for what time duration if any then factor in what classes can do what it does and or cant do and what score that class has. if you compare it to every class above it using my scores you will see it falls well short of the bar and IMO 6.5 is to good of a score in comparrison.

You’re right, I was hitting 6.5 based off of my own scale from 1-10. I should have adjusted that via your comparisons. In that case, your scale reflects the current game balance pretty accurately.

However I do feel that there are some variables within that scale which should shift those numbers depending on the team comp/requirements.

Since I play thief, let’s just take thief as an example.

Nowadays a thief is always the roamer right? He don’t need to, nor should he be neuting or holding points…it’s not his job. Backcapping when the time is right, yes, but approaching 1v1 fights especially against trap rangers/guards in desire to neut would be a stupid idea unless you know for sure you can 1v1 them. So now, according to your important aspects of the game, the thief has holding + neuting points crossed out -

That is a bit unfair imo, because we are talking about team play here…and team play means that a roamer could very well sacrifice the ability to hold+neut points because someone else in the team would fulfill that role. The problem with neuting + holding is just that…they have to stay there…and once they leave they would be trying to fulfill the role of the roamer and the point is now left empty. A roamer shouldn’t be holding+capping points so they could capitalize on their role:

The roaming thief is the one to come in mid-fight to change tides especially if it’s a 1v1 or 1v2 before the thief gets there. If it was a 1v1 before, that other person is going to be dead unless it somehow gets away…but even a ele can’t run away from me unless I have shadowstep on cd. If it was a 1v2 before, then it’s now pretty much an even fight. A thief brings so much burst that any non-bunker class would automatically start to be more alert so they don’t get bursted down instantly. Besides a 100n engi, there really isn’t any other class that can bring that much burst in such a short time. I am omitting 100b wars because more often than not, it can be broken out of because of the sheer time it takes for the 100b to execute through even with haste.

What I’m trying to say is, though your scale (in analyzing the class alone) may be valid in terms of Capping, Holding, Neutralizing, and Team Fights, there is definitely much more determining factors shifting those numbers depending on the team comps of both parties.

Though I can agree (and who can’t?) that Eles are the god-tier class still…no other class can cap/neut like rangers/engis, roam like thieves, teamfight + drop burning fields and share auras, all while being able to survive and put out good dps. It’s silly, but it’s just how eles are…and from what it seems from the last SOTG…Karl tends to think that eles are perfectly fine.

I don’t agree with thieves not being able to stomp…I get 90% of my stomps with no interuption…even if I get targeted. Blackpowder usually does it already, and if I know I need the stomp for sure I just shadowstep stomp and get my stomp.

Getting on topic from a thief perspective -

We are strong, yes, even outside of hotjoins. But there are definitely limitations…and I feel that thieves (esp glass cannons) have the highest ceiling in terms of skill level.

It’s ironic because everyone keeps saying how OP thieves are, but there are like 4 thieves in mid to higher tier tpvp. Ask the top players what class/es would be in the perfect comp and a thief/war would come last for sure. It’s not easy to play a good thief because we are not just the class with the lowest health pool, but we are also the only class with no true invulns…every other class has a skill that gives them 3-4s of invuln. We get stealth…which is literally a gimmick because you take damage as you would unstealthed…thus if a skilled player knows where you are, then you’re going to be in a bad position.

Playing a good thief requires so much awareness, skill and reaction time that it’s crazy…especially if you know there is another good thief on the other team. You have to play in such a paranoid state because as a thief, life and death is determined within a blink of an eye. People could sneeze on you and you’d die. Every other class has a oh kitten button which invulns them for 3-4secs…necros have a whole life bar + fear. We get shadowstep…which is a 1200r teleport, not even a invuln.

You may wonder, well then why don’t you play a less squishy thief? Answer is simple…it’s NOT viable. If you want to talk about build diversity, a thief has none. Even if you use different weapon sets, your stats are most likely 25/30/0/0/15. Any other build just doesn’t work as well in a team environment. A balanced thief does no good…there are much better classes that are more viable played with balanced builds. I’m not even going to talk about caltrops thieves because are gimmicky and any good dps thief will know how to counter them easy.

Side note: the upcoming Mug nerf is ridiculous imo…so now they want to nerf our burst damage even more…which is really the only reason to have a thief in the team. Meanwhile, it’s all good that Eles would have their burst healing which could renew their HP completely after our burst.

Overall I would say a thief is a 6.5 – however this number will go up drastically should there ever be that AOE nerf.

It really is a anticipation + reflex issue…sorry to burst your bubble. You should also know the thief’s range…learn what 900r is visually.

I play a full glass thief and I RARELY get gibbed…I am able to always shadowstep away unless I have it on cooldown or I had no hp to begin with…

You have to understand that combo you’re talking about is not unstoppable..in fact a simple timed dodge will cancel that combo all together and you’ll force it to be on a 45s cd. Know your positioning also…try your best to always front-face the thief so that he has a harder time getting to your back.

Of course, this comes from experience, anticipation and knowing the class…and a good thief won’t be so predictable about it…

Don’t know what else to say man…every other class has a cc that makes you invuln for 3-4secs…which is plenty of time to eat up the entire combo + heartseekers. You gotta get your reflexes up…

And no I’m not saying this because I main a thief, I also play a few other classes and know how to deal with thieves accordingly…especially if they come head to head.

Let me ask you a question fxyo…were you fighting the thief 1v1 to start, or did you get hit surprisingly from the back?

True words Davinci, true words, hence why I’ve been 101% pushing hotjoins to be gone. It does no good for new players trying to get into pvping, and gives false impressions of classes.

Every channeling move will continue to hit through stealth if they cast it before you go into stealth…definitely annoying.

Mrbig.8019:

@caed & amaterasu

The issue with SS is that there’re tons of terrain impairments that usually you won’t get the full range , unless you’re in open areas.

Sometimes you need to turn your camera AND use shadowstep in order to get the full range, because you’re in tiny places in the first place.

Moreover, not every class is a thief. Sometime they can’t get away from you ( altough they used a stunbreaker) and it that case, the 100% dps increase from haste is wonderful ( against necros, rangers, balanced stance warriors, bunker guardians and eles AFTER mistform, for example).

Haste and sin signet are simply different.

Sin signet is better to have your steal-stab dealing more damage, but haste is better in tons of other situations ( i usally haste stomp after using BPS anyway, to avoid their down CC to hit in any case).

I indeed understimated sin signet, and this conversation helped me to re-evaluate it, but, as i said before, it’s a matter of tastes.

Personally, i prefer haste.

You’re right, not every class is a thief, but every class has a cc that could eat up the whole haste combo following the backstab (ele-mist form, mes – distortion, war – endure pain/shield stance, guard – renewed focus, etc, etc, etc) Even necros can just deathshroud and fear you since you’re not going to have stability. Then what? No dodges, and if you don’t have refuge or your stealth gets interrupted, you’re dead.

That’s why, it’s important to SB them or pressure them and try to make them blow invuln. Also note that people are paranoid of backstabs…if you come out of stealth with a regular backstab, they might just take the bait and blow their invuln right away…leaving you with your steal untouched for the true combo.

It just comes down to preference, but I personally think draining all your endurance for 4s only to have them slowly regen isn’t smart unless you want to run and refuge everytime you miss your big combo…dodges are so important. The only way to counter this is if you use sig of agility as well and use that right after haste, but that’s not smart neither because as I said, shadowstep + refuge is pretty much a must.

evilapprentice.6379:

Amaterasu.6280:

evilapprentice.6379:

narcarsis.5791:

evilapprentice.6379:

@Narcarsis.5739

With the D/P Backstab build, how are you consistently getting into position without any sort of speed boost (Fleet shadow, SoS)? (As a side-note – the spec I run should also have an additional second of stealth thanks to MwS, but according to testing by another player on the boards, MwS is currently bugged and does not affect stealth gained by BP->HS)

I’m currently running D/P (25/15/30/0/0) with Devourers,SoS,Shadowstep and Basilisk. Good players tend to keep moving and dodging whenever I enter stealth; even with SoS, there are times where I have to decide quickly if I want to just let stealth drop or try for a front stab. Basically, what are you doing against players who know what to expect when you enter stealth?

For the backstab, patience and deception are your friends. Be patient with your burst and pressure them to use their defensive CDs (stun breaks, dodge rolls, etc). Once they’re gone burst them.

Positioning is something you’ll learn as time goes on. Think more vertically than horizontally. Get high ground and be patient, only go in for a kill when you can secure it.

P.S. I will not quit this game. And I’m always willing to answer questions – Through this post preferably.

I get all that. My point is, alot of builds are based around high endurance regen, or high mobility… Some people even use their 25% Movement signets. Mobility and endurance are very important in this game, and most classes that have access to high mobility/endurance regen tend to take it, and they’re generally not based on CD’s (and when they are, they’re generally very short CD’s). I Don’t see how a spec without some sort of movement speed buff (SoS, Fleet shadow) can reliably position backstabs against players running those types of specs who understand how a thief works.

Positioning comes with experience and learning to observe the other player. Backstab’s “back” range is pretty lenient…you could pretty much hit someone from the side and it’ll count as back…

What you need to do is learn not to approach the backstab combo from the front…even if you so much as dodge roll, rotate your camera a bit, then do the combo…you’re probably going to hit them from the side.

SoS does definitely help with positioning, but with experience and learning how to position yourself, you’re not going to need it.

Ok. Again, I get that. I’m not claiming to be perfect at it, but I understand the concept and generally try to position like that. Thank you for explaining, but that’s not my point.

For people who are moving at your speed or faster than you (which counts everyone not crippled/chilled when you aren’t running SoS/Fleet and dont have swiftness), and that know to move away from the position they saw you stealth at, how do you expect to ever get behind (or even in melee range) of that player? When I was running with Refuge over SoS (again, 25/15/30/0/0), people moving faster than base speed who knew how to play were generally a hard counter to BP->HS stealth entirely, because it was impossible for me to catch up with them (as long as they were moving generally away from me) without using shadowstep or steal. Switching to shortbow was generally the answer, but that’s not optimal in alot of situations. If they were close, there was the option of using HS without a target, so you shot past them and got a chance for the BS when they moved past you, but that’s not a perfect solution either.

I’d love to run Refuge over SoS in my build, I’m just wondering if there’s something I’m missing.

Hey, I have an answer but I’ll let caed answer this, because I feel like I’m hijacking his thread (sorry caed!)

But just 1 more note…if you’re not using refuge in your bar, you’re missing out a lot. It sucks to be pigeonholed, but there is no denying that shadowstep + refuge is pretty much 100% necessary in tpvp.

Mrbig.8019:

@amaterasu & caed

I see.

I still prefer haste for its overall usefulness ( stomps and rez mostly, sometimes i use it simply for those ones), especially since when i miss the burst, i usually gtfo anyway, unless the situation requires me in.

If a thief shadowsteps away, a single shadowshot will kill him, as long as the burst crit, ( no point in using HS) unless he shadowsteps in Z axis ( in that case, GG you uberrobot).

Overall it’s just a matter of tastes,and i can agree the signet can be better in certain situations ( for istance, when your burst fails to kill your opponent and he still has invuln/stunbreakers up) and worse in other ones ( like when your opponent already used his stunbreakers/invulns).

Shadowshot only works if the person is within 900 range…shadowstep is 1200 and from experience, I pretty much always nail the 1200 range unless i am in a tight space and have nowhere to go…

Also stomping with haste is a waste imo…so many classes could get their cc off before you can haste stomp. Blackpowder and the occasional shadowstep/steal stomp is plenty of options to stomp. I personally would never use haste since its on a 60s cd.

evilapprentice.6379:

narcarsis.5791:

evilapprentice.6379:

@Narcarsis.5739

With the D/P Backstab build, how are you consistently getting into position without any sort of speed boost (Fleet shadow, SoS)? (As a side-note – the spec I run should also have an additional second of stealth thanks to MwS, but according to testing by another player on the boards, MwS is currently bugged and does not affect stealth gained by BP->HS)

I’m currently running D/P (25/15/30/0/0) with Devourers,SoS,Shadowstep and Basilisk. Good players tend to keep moving and dodging whenever I enter stealth; even with SoS, there are times where I have to decide quickly if I want to just let stealth drop or try for a front stab. Basically, what are you doing against players who know what to expect when you enter stealth?

For the backstab, patience and deception are your friends. Be patient with your burst and pressure them to use their defensive CDs (stun breaks, dodge rolls, etc). Once they’re gone burst them.

Positioning is something you’ll learn as time goes on. Think more vertically than horizontally. Get high ground and be patient, only go in for a kill when you can secure it.

P.S. I will not quit this game. And I’m always willing to answer questions – Through this post preferably.

I get all that. My point is, alot of builds are based around high endurance regen, or high mobility… Some people even use their 25% Movement signets. Mobility and endurance are very important in this game, and most classes that have access to high mobility/endurance regen tend to take it, and they’re generally not based on CD’s (and when they are, they’re generally very short CD’s). I Don’t see how a spec without some sort of movement speed buff (SoS, Fleet shadow) can reliably position backstabs against players running those types of specs who understand how a thief works.

Positioning comes with experience and learning to observe the other player. Backstab’s “back” range is pretty lenient…you could pretty much hit someone from the side and it’ll count as back…

What you need to do is learn not to approach the backstab combo from the front…even if you so much as dodge roll, rotate your camera a bit, then do the combo…you’re probably going to hit them from the side.

SoS does definitely help with positioning, but with experience and learning how to position yourself, you’re not going to need it.

Kurotsuki | Thief | NA

http://www.twitch.tv/kurotsuuki

Mrbig.8019:

Narcarsis.5739:

Moisttowlete.8074:

So your burst combo is.

Signet + Venom -> Black Powder + Heartseek -> mid air steal -> into backstab?

also since you play a roamer, how do you feel about Signet of Shadows. Just started fulfilling the roamer roll for my group and that extra speed feels so nice for getting around the map. But cant tell yet if that damage loss is too extreme to justify it.

That is full combo, I don’t use it unless I know that they don’t have stun breaks – otherwise you will never hit backstab.

SoS is good, find which you like better and use it. Infiltrator’s Signet is another viable alternative. Find a play-style, refine it, and use what fits that play-style.

That is a question that was always lurking in my mind while watching your vids ( and jumper’s, before he quit).

y u no haste ?

Isn’t it a better choice overall ?

It seems that only in NA thieves use kitten signet , in EU it’s a feast of haste, stealth clipping, thieves ( me being one of them).

What is the logic behind choosing ths signet over haste ?

Haste only works if you can catch someone unexpected and they have no stunbreakers nor fast reaction time.

Haste is bad for backstab for these reasons:

1 – Stunbreaker, especially when fighting another thief…if they shadowstep away, you are not going to catch them no matter how many heartseekers you spam. That is because haste makes your heartseekers travel distance drastically decrease and you end up looking like you are doing it in 1 spot.

2 – If you mess up your combo, you will have 0 endurance, and it won’t regenerate for another 4 seconds. If someone stunbreaks and/or blocks your haste combo, you’re pretty much dead unless you shadowstep away and shadow refuge or something because you won’t be able to dodge anything. 2 things that kill thieves the most – no initiative, and no dodges.

3 – Sin signet (for example) gives you 90 power on passive which means you get more dmg on ANYTHING you do including when you’re using shortbow. And when you pop it, you get 15% more dmg on 5 hits that follows it. Our d/p combo is BP -> HS -> Steal ->BS – (#1 or HS) That’s exactly 5 attacks, which is perfect for the signet’s use. Obviously as you play you’ll learn to use the signet in other formats, but that’s the typical usage. I’ve tested this, and with sin signet, your full d/p combo is rougly 3-5k more damage than if you don’t use it. That is a big difference in ending someone’s life or them living and getting away.

Hope that helps!

This is exactly one of the reasons why hotjoins need to GO.

Try playing thief thief thief mes mes in a tpvp match…it’s not going to go anywhere.

Hotjoins teach beginning pvpers the wrong way of playing, and if they ever jump into tpvp, they are in a world of hell and wonder why their zerging techniques from hotjoins won’t work. After you play true tpvp you’ll realize how ridiculously easy and mindless hotjoins are.

I bet you that if you ever tried tpvp, you will actually see the script flipped…It’d be something like: ele, ele, ranger, guard, nec. Multiple thieves + mesmers don’t stack well in tpvp.

Hotjoins need to go, and have solo queue replace the “hot join” mentality.

That’s ok, Capricorn sucks anyway.

Can’t tell you that right now

Yep, incentive is running thin right now…

I hope there will be much more incentive by the time I hit 50, because once I do…there will be absolutely no point in playing with the current status of tpvp.

Even QPs, as worthless as they were, was something “rewarding” and was somewhat of a leaderboard type deal…

Forget about competition, there are even less people playing now than the last patch…we all know the 10-15 people still group up to play higher tier tpvp…otherwise all you get are 5v4s or solo qs of level 5s and level 10s.

Also, there is no point in fixing the rewards for 3-round tourneys when there aren’t even enough people q’ing for them to pop. Really pointless gesture…I think the devs just need to seriously sit down and listen to the only people remaining that still play.

We’re all hanging by a thread here…

Q does pop…if you have an hour to spare.

You really can’t pull up a vid from October and say that someone is the best thief right now…If he were to try to use that build right now, i bet he wouldn’t get very far.

Thieves were MUCH stronger then than now…esp with dagger offhand. That was before the 50% dmg nerf to dancing daggers + 15%(or more?) to c+d? Those were true instabbing days where sin signet did 50% more dmg on the backstab.

Plus, people play with stunbreakers now and all sorts of ccs. Pvp has evolved since October for sure.

Is there going to be a fix for that culling issue?

It’s happening all over the mists and although it’s not the biggest deal because it’s not a actual match..it’s still annoying that I can’t see my guild mates which are literally standing right next to me unless I move around until he shows up…

There is a reason why people use 25/30/0/0/15, and here’s why:

15 into acrobatics just isn’t enough for it to replace the 3ini on steal, fury might + swiftness on steal, and more ini.

You only get might on dodge, and 1 more dodge to start, and swiftness (which you don’t need since you already have SoS, you won’t run any faster with swiftness)

But the biggest reason is that you’re a backstab build…you WANT to land those backstabs hard…for you to say that you’re not a stealth build is just gimping yourself as a thief. With Thrill of the crime, you boost your crit chance to 69% (instead of 49%) and if you use a 5% crit sigil, that means you get a 74% crit chance while your fury is up…that’s a guaranteed hard hit in my book.

More ini = more options…and thieves without ini = dead + stunbreaks = dead.

The only time going into acrobatics is worth it is if you dive deep all the way into grand master…you’d want quick pockets, quick recovery, and most important fluid strikes( 10% dmg boost when endurance isn’t full)

If you want to go into acrobatics, I’d go 10/30/0/30/0.

Don’t bother with divinity runes…that 50 vit + toughness is not going to make you anymore tanky…you’re still glass. Might as well go all the way and use ogres or scholars.

Hope that helps you.

Why would you even use Fleet Shadow? :|

Every other trait seems like a better option.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Oni.5429:

You have two separate tourny ques at this moment. One for 3 round and one for 1 round. In a blog post you guys said that they had separate matchmaking. Paid tournaments previously demonstrated that you guys have the ’’feature’’ in place to force someone to be 5 premade players to que in to the match. You also now have a ‘’join solo’’ button.

If you piece these pieces together you get:

1.Make one tournament que ‘’join solo’’ only, 1 round
2. Make the other que ‘’submit roster’’ with 5 only , 1 round

LE VOILA!
It’s okay, we can scrap the idea of duoq for now. Put that in your ’’soon’’ basket. You can do the same for the random map generator, just keep rotating maps manually the way you guys do every 2 days or something.

There. That is the solution that will allow solo players to play the game without getting stomped by teams.

So in this suggestion, people would only play as a team of 5 or by themselves. That would mean effectively disabling tournaments for people who want to play tournaments with a friend. Or two friends, or three friends, but don’t have a full team. I can’t imagine that would go over very well either.

You could have solo q be parties of 2 players max…that way they can still group up together and play solo q’s even if they don’t have a full team. Or if you want to keep the current settings, only pin 3 man premade – 2 man solo q pugs against another team with a similar comp, where they also have a 3 man premade, 2 man solo q.

In the current state (and I don’t see it changing even when MMR is settled because there just aren’t enough people doing tpvp), solo q will just keep pinning you up against premades, not to mention premades with VOIP. When new or low level players get pinned against veteran premades, they are going to lose the will to play because they WILL get stomped…it’s not a debate. I understand that this happens because not enough people of the same MMR are q’ing, so the system, after some time just pins any team together…which is fine! But it seems to be happening a lot…I just feel bad for the new players because no one wants to come in the map and leave at 500-20. I’ve already seen so many people discouraged for this exact reason.

True solo q can also replace hotjoin at it’s current stage and bridge the gap between tpvp and hotjoins. Hotjoins right now are only good for testing new builds…other than that it’s a total zergfest which is not what tpvp is. People who do hotjoins come to do tpvp and have no clue what they’re doing because it’s not a zergfest.

Solo q’s should ONLY fight against other solo q’s…otherwise it’s pointless. Premades will always be better than 5 solo q’s.

Anet, you guys failed hard this time around. The worst thing you can do is promise balance in SOTG then release a patch with these BS changes. That tells the fans that you don’t give a kitten about the state of the game…

90% of the patch (pvp) is of trivial stuff…thieves and warriors really only got tooltip and graphic changes…for real??

And Eles are pretty much untouched?

Buff Necro minions which have the worst AI in game? You can give them backstab and they won’t be able to land them properly.

GG

One of the best patches to date.

- You can now SEE basilisk venom being put on you
- Cloak and daggering a door will no longer be viable
- Shadowshot, the most useful skill in the game has it’s animation tweaked
- You can now SEE that you’ve shared venoms with others, so that’s OP as kitten
- 10% more healing for the only heal skill that no one uses? kitten yea, priorities here!
- You can now apply 100% (instead of 60%) cipple on someone every 10 secs with one of the best minor traits ever. Cripple p/d build new meta.

Great job Anet!

Jumper.9482:

I really like how they brought up all these builds into viability.
The thief S/D and P/P buffs look good.

Yea man, and venomshare as well! You can now SEE that I’ve shared venom with you, OP!

Nerva, the skill-based spec inspector. Good joke.

Arheundel.6451:

Archaon.6245:

Pretty fun how ppl actually think thieves are so easy to play…thief is probably one of the hardest classes to play properly in tpvp that’s why you don’t see so many good ones around…apparently ppl base their judjement on hotjoin crap where everyone can pretty much kill everyone else with almost everything…. Spamming hs is one thing, but i don’t consider hs spammers at all, we can say thief has a really low floor skill just haste and spam hs…but ceiling is well above let’s say eles, with ele once you get into skill rotation you’re pretty much done and if you run valkirie you can make lots of mistakes and still survive (You know..mist form, rtl, op heals, vigor, regen and so on…), in high end pvp if you make one, just one, mistake with a thief you’re down…no matter what. Low floor? Yes maybe, aswell as pew pew or trap rangers or hb wars and so on…ceiling? Very very high…a thief needs to be really really good to match up even with mediocre eles, you know you can’t just go in steal.c&d.bs -> stomp, if you think so you never played a dps thief in paids and i suggest you to try running one with all this low skill floor and survive more than 5 secs in a paids team fight, really give it a try before talkin’ bullkitten

What kind of skill do you need to go stealth and land a 6k backstab? Well it’s pointless trying to reason with you…..

But it’s very very amusing how a thief come here and tell others that they’re bad players because they use loads of defensive utility and build set up to counter….lol…a newb friendly profession that can deal over 12k dmg within 1.5s while invisible, not only the same developers have admitted that thief is a very low skill cap profession compared to elementalist but also few months ago, thief players used to call nabs anybody who used to go in PvP without defensive builds including stun breakers , anybody who used to complain about thieves ( and still does) get quickly deemed as noob for not bringing stun breakers, basically thief players consider their profession legitimate because you can still survive by being forced in using extreme defensive set up…amusing.

Plus..want to compare RTL with shortbow thieves? I can’t surely teleport on top f the stairs from the bottom of the arc in Forest of Nifheel and neither I can teleport on top of the tower from the bottom, I can’t cover the same distance of a thief using his shortbow three times consecutively so I can’t catch a thief at all…as he can still go stealth, in wvwvw a short bow thief can outrun 20+ people where a rtl ele can’t

You complain about mistform? You forget: elixir S, endure pain, distortion and more

Sorry when I beat 1vs1 these r40+ mesmers/warriors/thieves ….with a staff where are my OP heal if I use soldier amulet and a single cantrip ?
sorry dude there are no low skill cap builds on ele or you suck or you don’t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0togRMEc_o

You’re delusional if you think an ele need to have healing power to beat a thief and there are very nasty surprises coming your way dude

Another case of someone who just has no idea what he’s talking about. I suggest you try to play a thief in upper tier tpvp and decide for yourself whether or not you can “just go into stealth and land a backstab” and cash in.

Thieves are the ONLY class with no true immunity cc…if you think stealth is a problem then you’re just not understanding game mechanics enough to kill them through stealth. We have the lowest hp pool and pretty much forced to play glass cannons because as far as tpvp goes, none other build is viable. Forget you ever learned about condi thieves because they are trivial in good tpvp matches.

Eles are the current god class (d/d, but who doesn’t use d/d?), and you can try to deny it all you want, but there is a reason why top teams are all using double eles and not double thieves.

Comparing the current state of thieves to eles is just ridiculous.

Razor.6392:

Amaterasu.6280:

AOE dmg can do the same amount of dmg but to multiple people, why would you want single target classes?

I play a glass cannon d/d ele and I yet have to hit anyone for 8k or higher as thieves can, while being able to repeat the same amount of damage up to 4 times.

stop comparing apples to oranges pls.

You’re missing the whole point. You’re playing a d/d ele and you don’t think you put out as much damage as thieves? Just because you don’t have a “backstab” skill, it doesn’t mean you don’t put out good damage overall. A single fire rotation + arcane blast andor/wave can easily kill a thief/glass cannon class. If you can’t do that, then you’re failing as an ele.

You really shouldn’t even talk if you’re playing a d/d ele which is the most OP class in game right now bar none.

Seriously, stop comparing apples to oranges.

jportell.2197:

Amaterasu.6280:

jportell.2197:

Amaterasu.6280:

jportell.2197:

My list on classes skill floor ceiling Combos
(Skill Floor in Order from Lowest to Highest):
1. Thief
2. Guard (any spec)
3. Warrior
4. Necro
5. Ranger
6. Mesmer
7. Ele
8. Engi

Skill Ceiling
1. Thief
2. Warrior
3. Guard
4. Ele (sorry once you get attunement swap down there isn’t much more that goes into it)
5. Necro
6. Ranger (Dat amazing pet management is unbeatable)
7. Mesmer (Learning the class mechanics is great… Knowing how to use them ALL to your advantage. Most never get here.)
8. Engi (By far the hardest pvp class to master but oh man can they handle business)

If you think a thief is lowest in skill ceiling, I guess you don’t play enough high-tier tpvp. Spvp is filled with thieves, because they are easy to pick up at first and gib people, but once you get to a certain level of tpvp, it’s VERY hard to stay relevant in a team comp. Thieves are the only class that doesn’t have a true invulnerable cc, and have the lowest hp pool…all while we are pretty much forced to play glass cannon. Don’t even start talking about bleed thieves because at this point, they are irrelevant in high-tier tpvp. If you think it’s easy to survive as a glass cannon thief all while being a killing machine + help your team out…you haven’t played much of that level of tpvp. It’s very unforgiving to play a good thief in high-tier tpvp…it takes skill, awareness, reflex, and you really have to know when and when not to engage.

This is why I can count with 1 hand, how many good thieves there are in high-tier tpvp right now. Eles and rangers though, are another story.

But I guess your list suggests the typical mindset of thieves.

Pretty much what I was going with there. And the main reason you don’t see many thieves high end is because stealth doesn’t allow you to register point capping… If another game mode were implemented you would see way more thieves… and then the gripes about thieves from the “high-end” people which I am not by any means (just got owned by Mufa the worlds greatest thief! LOL) but I know they would increase exponentially.

Actually, the stealth not being able to cap thing is not the reason. Stealth SHOULDN’T let you cap a point and that’s coming from me, a thief that strictly does tpvp and have 2000+ games. It would be unfair to cap with stealth.

The problem is the status of the current game and it’s unbalances, which forces a certain meta.

Here’s why:

You are almost bound to see 2x trap rangers or 2x eles in the current serious tpvp meta. Why?

1 – Because eles are the current god-class. There is no debating this, it is what it is, and that’s it.

2 – AOE dmg does just as much, if not more dmg than single target dps dmg…which thieves are kings of. This is a flaw…if AOE dmg can do the same amount of dmg but to multiple people, why would you want single target classes?

Granted a good thief + warrior is still very effective, the current meta just doesn’t call for that. It’s just much easier to run a cookie cutter comp like 2x eles or 2x rangers. There aren’t many good thieves in high-tier tpvp which proves that the skill ceiling on thieves is probably the hardest to achieve aside from warriors, but it’s just unfortunate that they aren’t getting put into meta builds because of the flaws of the current game mechanics.

AOE damage doesn’t do the same amount of damage to multiple people as a thief does to one person. Really no AOE damage in this game hits that hard except 100B which is splash damage but the most easily avoidable AOE damage in the game. If my mindwrack can hit EVERYONE around the target for 8k per illusion I would say that AOE damage does as much. But it doesn’t. It really doesn’t. And what I mean by a different game mode is like deathmatch capture the flag so on. If modes like that became implemented then the number of thieves would skyrocket. The current game mode is the only reason there is a downside to having a thief.

Are you serious?

You DO know the reason why trap rangers are so popular is because of the dmg output on the 3 traps right? It’s not just for annoyance…it ACTUALLY hits hard. AOEs don’t do flat out dps, they often do condi dps, but it’s very potent.

Eles with ring of fire, burning speed + arcane blast…loads of dmg + burning.

Engis can also rain on everyone from 1500 range with unlimited grenades which do crazy good sustained damage.

Sure it was a slight exaggeration, of course a good backstab or 100b will always do more dmg single target, but when you can AOE and hit a whole group hard, it’s obvious why people don’t choose single target dps over AOEs. And we all know tpvp is all about team fights…rarely is it ever a 1v1.

^This is true with the first paragraph.

Many people run the same / similar build…but just because you can run a build, it doesn’t make you automatically good at that class. This is the case with spvp hotjoins…there are a million thieves and eles nowadays…but how many actually know how to use the class properly and in a smart way outside than just gibbing someone with the same buttons over and over?

The high bar on skill level comes with the individual player…

Not saying this is the most complicated game, but there is certainly enough there to differentiate the great from mediocre players.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Amaterasu.6280:

You totally missed my point, but that’s ok.

Show me a post that quotes when I said ANYONE sucks?

I am confident in my words because I come from the inner circle, not because I’m arrogant. I WANT gw2 pvp to grow…I’m here to share my insight not to stomp on anyone trying to get into it. I don’t think I’ve personally attacked anyone here about their skill.

I don’t see what you’re talking about…

You missed the point I think mate. Qps mean more than rank because whilst both show grind Qps show grind in tpvp whilst ranks shows grind in hotjoins.

And your first quote to me said something like “you are too dense to understand”. Pretty weird decision to just come in with personal attacks on a video game forum……`

Again, when did I say that anyone sucked? Saying that they are dense has nothing to do with their in-game skill. I’m strictly talking about that since you claim that I say that I play top tier pvp and that I claim everyone sucks.

Where did I say that?

Anyway, I’m going to stop here because this is just spam for the thread. Sorry to the OP.

You totally missed my point, but that’s ok.

Show me a post that quotes when I said ANYONE sucks?

I am confident in my words because I come from the inner circle, not because I’m arrogant. I WANT gw2 pvp to grow…I’m here to share my insight not to stomp on anyone trying to get into it. I don’t think I’ve personally attacked anyone here about their skill.

I don’t see what you’re talking about…

jportell.2197:

Amaterasu.6280:

jportell.2197:

My list on classes skill floor ceiling Combos
(Skill Floor in Order from Lowest to Highest):
1. Thief
2. Guard (any spec)
3. Warrior
4. Necro
5. Ranger
6. Mesmer
7. Ele
8. Engi

Skill Ceiling
1. Thief
2. Warrior
3. Guard
4. Ele (sorry once you get attunement swap down there isn’t much more that goes into it)
5. Necro
6. Ranger (Dat amazing pet management is unbeatable)
7. Mesmer (Learning the class mechanics is great… Knowing how to use them ALL to your advantage. Most never get here.)
8. Engi (By far the hardest pvp class to master but oh man can they handle business)

If you think a thief is lowest in skill ceiling, I guess you don’t play enough high-tier tpvp. Spvp is filled with thieves, because they are easy to pick up at first and gib people, but once you get to a certain level of tpvp, it’s VERY hard to stay relevant in a team comp. Thieves are the only class that doesn’t have a true invulnerable cc, and have the lowest hp pool…all while we are pretty much forced to play glass cannon. Don’t even start talking about bleed thieves because at this point, they are irrelevant in high-tier tpvp. If you think it’s easy to survive as a glass cannon thief all while being a killing machine + help your team out…you haven’t played much of that level of tpvp. It’s very unforgiving to play a good thief in high-tier tpvp…it takes skill, awareness, reflex, and you really have to know when and when not to engage.

This is why I can count with 1 hand, how many good thieves there are in high-tier tpvp right now. Eles and rangers though, are another story.

But I guess your list suggests the typical mindset of thieves.

Pretty much what I was going with there. And the main reason you don’t see many thieves high end is because stealth doesn’t allow you to register point capping… If another game mode were implemented you would see way more thieves… and then the gripes about thieves from the “high-end” people which I am not by any means (just got owned by Mufa the worlds greatest thief! LOL) but I know they would increase exponentially.

Actually, the stealth not being able to cap thing is not the reason. Stealth SHOULDN’T let you cap a point and that’s coming from me, a thief that strictly does tpvp and have 2000+ games. It would be unfair to cap with stealth.

The problem is the status of the current game and it’s unbalances, which forces a certain meta.

Here’s why:

You are almost bound to see 2x trap rangers or 2x eles in the current serious tpvp meta. Why?

1 – Because eles are the current god-class. There is no debating this, it is what it is, and that’s it.

2 – AOE dmg does just as much, if not more dmg than single target dps dmg…which thieves are kings of. This is a flaw…if AOE dmg can do the same amount of dmg but to multiple people, why would you want single target classes?

Granted a good thief + warrior is still very effective, the current meta just doesn’t call for that. It’s just much easier to run a cookie cutter comp like 2x eles or 2x rangers. There aren’t many good thieves in high-tier tpvp which proves that the skill ceiling on thieves is probably the hardest to achieve aside from warriors, but it’s just unfortunate that they aren’t getting put into meta builds because of the flaws of the current game mechanics.

^Yep,

and to be honest, just because you have a group of skilled players, it doesn’t mean you would all gel well together anyway. Some people just have better synergy and know exactly what position they should be in…and that’s what makes the great premades stand out from the usual.

jportell.2197:

My list on classes skill floor ceiling Combos
(Skill Floor in Order from Lowest to Highest):
1. Thief
2. Guard (any spec)
3. Warrior
4. Necro
5. Ranger
6. Mesmer
7. Ele
8. Engi

Skill Ceiling
1. Thief
2. Warrior
3. Guard
4. Ele (sorry once you get attunement swap down there isn’t much more that goes into it)
5. Necro
6. Ranger (Dat amazing pet management is unbeatable)
7. Mesmer (Learning the class mechanics is great… Knowing how to use them ALL to your advantage. Most never get here.)
8. Engi (By far the hardest pvp class to master but oh man can they handle business)

If you think a thief is lowest in skill ceiling, I guess you don’t play enough high-tier tpvp. Spvp is filled with thieves, because they are easy to pick up at first and gib people, but once you get to a certain level of tpvp, it’s VERY hard to stay relevant in a team comp. Thieves are the only class that doesn’t have a true invulnerable cc, and have the lowest hp pool…all while we are pretty much forced to play glass cannon. Don’t even start talking about bleed thieves because at this point, they are irrelevant in high-tier tpvp. If you think it’s easy to survive as a glass cannon thief all while being a killing machine + help your team out…you haven’t played much of that level of tpvp. It’s very unforgiving to play a good thief in high-tier tpvp…it takes skill, awareness, reflex, and you really have to know when and when not to engage.

This is why I can count with 1 hand, how many good thieves there are in high-tier tpvp right now. Eles and rangers though, are another story.

But I guess your list suggests the typical mindset of thieves.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Amaterasu.6280:

Rank requirements are reasonable…

In this game, rank DOES at least indicate the time you’ve spent pvping…and as a previous poster said, it is a justification that you know what you’re doing.

HOWEVER, I do a lot of high-tier tpvp and I’ve played with/against many 30-40+ people who aren’t up to caliber…BUT I can assure you that they are better than the lvl 10s and 20s mostly.

Since rank is so hard to level in this game, it just indicates the amount of time you’ve dedicated to it…and if you’ve spent so much time pvping, chances are you WILL get better with rank. Even if you’re a hotjoin hero, you would (normally) at least know the ins and outs of your class. You may not know how to properly play with a group in tpvp, but at least you can hold your own.

QPs however, is a joke. Some of the people with the highest QPs are mediocre at best. I don’t understand why people advertise for QP requirements for pvp.

You think rank requirements are resonable, when most people have done most of their rank in hotjoin.

And yet you think that QPs are a joke when all they are is essentially a rank for paid tournaments which show how much you have played in paids just like rank shows how much you have played at all?

Sorry that logic doesnt make sense to me dude!

The logic does make sense, you’re just too dense to see through it.

Do you know how easy it is to farm QPs if you have the right group? VERY. Especially with the way that paids are right now, you can easily get 100qps a day if you and your group/s are dedicated.

Now, you tell me how long it takes to get from lvl 1 to lvl 40-50, compared to getting 1000 QPs?

Even when you farm exp in hotjoins, the exp/time requirement is still there, thus making you PLAY the class. If you have someone do the same thing over and over again, they will eventually get decent at it.

QPs are from winning paids yes, but I come from the inner circle of 25 people who strictly do paids with each other, and they are also the “top” players at the moment. If we group up and play against lower-tier premades, which happens a lot since there aren’t enough people with the same MMR…we ARE going to win, and easily at that. Farming QPs is MUCH easier than exp. You can get carried through a paid and earn QPs.

Logic dude.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

the problem is that there are good high ranked players and grinded high rank players. tell me how you tell them a part.

You just play with them and learn their names…the community is so kitten small that you get to know all the good(and bad/overrated) players.

Rank requirements are reasonable…

In this game, rank DOES at least indicate the time you’ve spent pvping…and as a previous poster said, it is a justification that you know what you’re doing.

HOWEVER, I do a lot of high-tier tpvp and I’ve played with/against many 30-40+ people who aren’t up to caliber…BUT I can assure you that they are better than the lvl 10s and 20s mostly.

Since rank is so hard to level in this game, it just indicates the amount of time you’ve dedicated to it…and if you’ve spent so much time pvping, chances are you WILL get better with rank. Even if you’re a hotjoin hero, you would (normally) at least know the ins and outs of your class. You may not know how to properly play with a group in tpvp, but at least you can hold your own.

QPs however, is a joke. Some of the people with the highest QPs are mediocre at best. I don’t understand why people advertise for QP requirements for pvp.

Solo queue is important because of the way tpvp is right now…

I come from the inner circle of 20 good people who ONLY play with each other…which unfortunately is all the top tpvpers right now.

If you are not within that inner circle, chances of you finding a “good” group to play with is little to none. It’s very sad honestly, but they are not to blame completely. When they play together, they will most likely win and/or play against a team that’s worth playing against. No one wants to play to lose…so it’s only natural that they group together.

There isn’t enough low-tier players to form their own parties and have fun…and when they do form a group, matchmaking gives up and throws top-premades together with low-tier premades because of the lack of groups queued…thus the low-tier group gets murdered and becomes discouraged. It’s really a never-ending cycle.

The tpvp scene is totally unbalanced in that sense…you’re either part of the 20 people who are good, whom play together…or you’re part of the 20 people who are of lower-teir and either have a crazy hard time finding a group or have no chance in tpvp because they get paired up against the good crew anyway.

Solo q’ing will give other people a chance to just play and have fun without worrying about running into a premade…also it would mean that those people would not have to spend 2hrs just to find a group because that’s just the state of the game nowadays…

Sad.