Guild Wars 2

Ele trait on Mes OP

When I see that combat log, I don’t see that backstab needs a CD.

When I see that combat log, I see that you apparently don’t know how to fight thieves to allow them to land 2 consecutive backstabs on you from the back/side.

Thieves are basically low-tier now in this new meta where everything blows up.

Not really sure how this is OP when mesmers can land a 13k mindrack on you after a instacast 1200r stun. Mind you, it doesn’t require the mesmer to be behind the opponent.

glock.6590:

There is nothing wrong with passive procs unless you just started playing. You know that a power necro can one shot you if you’re close to 50% HP, why hanging around the necro and then cry about spinal shivers if you knew it was gonna happen?

Same goes for panic strike thief, you need to be prepared to have a condi clear or defensive utility off CD if there’s a thief porting to you and you’re low on hp.

If everything had counter play was predictable and had a cast time , it would be super lame. And who ever has the most dodges would win. Just think about fighting a hammer warrior . All u need is maximum amount of dodges to beat it since its extremely telegraphed and predictable.

Without any passive or insta cast dmg, S/D thieves would be the most cancerous thing in the game. Because there would be no way to land damage on some1 that has 70% evade uptime.

Really, not really. The reason why s/d (20066) works is because of the saving grace that is fire+air proc. Why do you think no one used 20066 before for s/d? s/d used to be 26060 because you needed to dive deep into crit strikes if you wanted to do any significant damage as a thief. This is the same reason why panic strike works so well right now – not only because of the lowered CD, but because damage could be made up for now that fire+air stack.

No one would play a glass thief without putting 6 in crit strikes before. Executioner was/is really strong.

glock.6590:

crit strikes thief= high risk high reward
panic strike thief= medium risk medium reward
S/D thief= low risk low reward

Isint that how it should be? Why do people QQ. Crit strikes is still good but its just hard to play in this meta thats why nobody plays it. Its much better to play an easier build and do something for your team instead of being downstate food and then claim that your hard build is not viable anymore.

Edit: Also nothing is more braindead than a shoutbow warr or a turret engi. If they nerf panic strike cuz it was ‘’too easy to play’ then LOL are you kittening serious.

How exactly is s/d low reward? I main thief but have been playing shatter mesmer for months now – and I can tell you that s/d thieves are really the biggest reasons thieves are known to be “hard counters” in a regular team situation to a mesmer.

Don’t get me wrong d/p is strong, but if you can mess up their stealth, they’re done. S/D can spam evades all day and you don’t even need to pay attention to clones. Also sword #1 is plenty strong when used with steal.

Why are you even worried about mesmer autoattack on GS? How many mesmers do you even see in Solo Q that still play shatter? I see a bunch of condi mes but rarely any shatter.

And I’d say for how much of a disadvantage playing a mes gets now, that little bit of “extra-damage” is more than ok. I bet you that autoattack even when cancelled and casted twice, won’t do as much damage as a single rocket turret shot.

Besides the point, it’s barely anything to complain about especially since most of the meta can basically tank the autoattack in the face and still basically out-heal it…

The problem is that in the past, there were decap engi builds. That was fine, because as frustrating as it was to fight them, they really didn’t do enough damage to matter. They couldn’t kill you, and you sure as hell couldn’t kill them/take their node.

BUT – Turret engis do too much damage for their role. Turret damage needs to be shaved for them to be balanced.

Definitely not – most people would just troll and abuse the system.

This happens all the time.

It’s almost like “Hey, don’t feel so good about yourself, you had a great match, but you’re going to be in a 0-500’d next round.” There is just nothing you can do to carry 3-4 teammates who simply have no clue how to rotate/play.

I’m not convinced MMR works at all. I always get 1 good match and 3 horrible ones. It’s completely random.

+1.

It’s basically a give-up round when you’re matched up against premades. There’s no way you can carry 3-4 other people no matter how well you do, unless the premades are trash.

I will say though MMR doesn’t seem to really work. A lot of players simply don’t carry much weight. In my queue experience, every q has 1-2 people on each team that does most of the work, and the others are just fillers…

I think shatter mesmers are really strong when played well – even in this meta. In a meta where boons reign supreme, being able to remove them so quickly is amazing.

The only real counters are s/d thieves and burn-focused medi guards.

I think if mesmers can get condi removal built into their heal, and 1 other source of condi remove, it would bring up their viability a lot more. Having to trait for any sort of condi removal is silly to me especially considering just how incredibly spammable they are.

Another problem are s/d thieves. Good d/p thieves are scary, but you can kill them if you play aggressively, time your attacks and rupt their stealthing. At the very least you can disengage fairly easily because you can put pressure on them right away. However, there’s not as much you can do against s/d because of how much evade could be spammed. Clones are not smart enough to counter that, thus shattering often misses. Not to mention they can just C+D the clones.

Just some thoughts from playing more mesmer now – used to main thief. I refuse to play s/d though…Way too forgiving.

I agree.

Though I just minimize and surf the web while I wait…I still get impatient when it’s near 10 mins, but I don’t really mind most of the time.

On the flip side, it’s hard to even join queue and go use the bathroom, because if you’re not there in 15s, you have to wait again. Not really sure what the workaround would be though…

Overall I don’t mind the wait as much as I mind the horrible match ups. It’s like a complete lottery…One game it’s a 20 point difference, another game it’s 500:10. I just hate how much it fluctuates. The old, true solo Q even had better match ups.

I think (if they don’t already) they should consider the age of the character and the amount of tourney games played in the equation, because there are a LOT of PVE heroes coming in to do dailies and completely ruining the experience of ranked queue. Nothing worst than people pushing far right away just to die, and coming to cap with you…Ranked queue these days are hard to carry!

Chaith.8256:

Amaterasu.6280:

I don’t really understand some of these defenses for slick shoes. You, as the attacker, have to stunbreak just to do anything against the target’s stunbreak? That makes no sense.

“Just use stability” – Besides warriors and guardians (and sometimes eles), what other class has access to stab like that?

“Just stand still” – Ok, that’s just sad. Let’s just forget that most of the time standing still doesn’t even work.

Your list of counters is pretty lacking, I’m just gonna drop what to do on each profession when you find yourself tripping over yourself repeatedly:

The meta PvP professions that most commonly get dunked by Slick Shoes are: Slick Shoe Engineers. It’s kind of ironic. There is zero way to get out, and Gear Shield is interrupted. Your only hope is that the Engineer will walk in front of you and you can spam Overcharged Shot him and not be blinded.

Other notable mentions, Ranger, Shoutbow Warriors that choose to not counter-build for stability.

What to do: Be aware of the Engineer’s Slick Shoes cooldown. Kiting an Engineer at an unexpected time can cause him to waste the Slick Shoes chasing you, stunbreak the first knockdown if he hasn’t gotten a full ring around you, after the first knockdown, stand still and counter-pressure. And:

Ele: use Lightning Flash or Armor of Earth in order to avoid get dunked,

Necro: use Flesh Wurm in order to avoid get dunked, also spectral walk/death shroud provides temporary safety to be offensive.

Mesmer: I can count the number of time I’ve seen a mesmer get dunked by Slick Shoes on maybe one or two hands. Just keep doing your thing. (Blink, Phase Retreat, Distortion.)

Thief: Shadowstep if necessary, or if available, Steal/Infiltrator’s Signet to port out. Infiltrator’s Return usually works after the first knockdown if standing still.

Engi: Get wrecked, live by the slickies, die by the slickies.

Ranger: Get wrecked, I’m sorry your profession inherently gets pooped on by Slick Shoes. This is probably the biggest injustice. Using Lightning Reflexes the second you get caught works quite often though.

Guardian: Traited Virtue of Courage, Elite, Judge’s Intervention to a nearby enemy, to avoid getting dunked.

Warrior: Bring balanced Stance when facing off against heavy CC based enemies.

First off, as a thief, I will just have to correct the steal/infiltrator’s signet advice. You can’t steal/inf sig against slick shoes because you will just get KD’d right away, guaranteed. Shadowstep works if you’re teleporting to the side/in front of them, but that’s about it.

Secondly, with all the advice (which are valid for the most part), we must acknowledge that you’re giving advice on how to not get offensively “dunked” on by a defensive stunbreak utility. As you listed, as the attacker, you have to waste a stunbreak yourself, just to force the target’s stunbreak. It’s a lose-lose situation. That in itself justifies why slick shoes should be toned down/changed.

You wouldn’t be able to offer advice on how not to get dunked on by other stunbreaks:

Thief – Shadowstep
Mesmer – Blink + Decoy
Necro – Flesh Wurm / Spectral Anything
Guardian – SYG, Judges
Ele – Armor of Earth
Warrior – Balance Stance, Endure Pain, Shake it off
Ranger – Lightning Reflexes

You wouldn’t offer advice on how not to get dunked by them, because they are basically all defensive utilities with little to no offensive capabilities. Shadowstep/Judges are the only ones you can say could offer offensive capabilities on top of being defensive.

That is what separates slick shoes from other stunbreaks. BIG offensive capabilities while being very defensive.

I don’t really understand some of these defenses for slick shoes. You, as the attacker, have to stunbreak just to do anything against the target’s stunbreak? That makes no sense.

“Just use stability” – Besides warriors and guardians (and sometimes eles), what other class has access to stab like that?

“Just stand still” – Ok, that’s just sad. Let’s just forget that most of the time standing still doesn’t even work. Give me another stunbreak in the game, where the solution against it is to “stand still”. The second you stand still against a engi, you die. That’s what makes slick shoes so strong, it’s both defense + offense. As you are KD’d or trying to stand still, they are running away and chucking nades backwards.

We have to remember that slick shoes is just one utility in the engi’s toolkit right now. There are a lot of other things that make them overall so strong compared to other classes/builds. IP is one of them. Let’s not forget traited, gear shield is on a ridiculously low CD, thus allowing them to avoid a lot of damage. There are barely any skills in the game that are unblockable + does significant damage. Also, if anything goes wrong, just crate for the win.

I don’t want to stay that Engis are OP, I just want to say that other classes need to be brought up and rounded out to be as complete as Engis.

It wouldn’t be such a problem if they would just address the most blatantly obvious problems, like celestial ammy/builds, particularly engis.

When dhuumfire came out, that thing was nerfed to the ground in literally 2 days.

Months just to “nerf” might a tiny bit is ridiculous especially when might affects every other class, not just cele users. Yea, we don’t want to overnerf, but at this rate of balancing, we’d fix celestial when the 2nd expansion comes out in a few more years.

Turrets are kittenedly OP.

As a glass build, I’ve gotten killed by a single thumper turret and 1 rocket turret before. Just 2 freakin turrets…Engi just left it there and went to another point. That shows just how much damage turrets do while having an insane amount of HP.

There is no reason why a player should have to waste so much effort and blow his heal just to kill a single AI utility like a turret.

Matchmaking is a complete lottery now. You can win 1 game and get 0:500 the next game. I’m really not sure how it’s working…

Nothing is more discouraging than trying to do your best to carry your team, but they don’t even know how to rotate.

Ranked arena should have requirements. Unranked should be for all the other PVE heroes getting their dailies.

“A bunker guradian shuts down a necro”

/thread l2p

Any physical build that requires CCing will put the engi at a advantage because they get almost perma protection…which means your attacks are always going to do 33% less damage.

If you really want to kill turret engis, just wait for their turret bubble to go away and place a firefield around them…they have 1 condi clear (their heal)…after that, it’s GG. I have no probem killing turret engis on axe/sw lb.

You deserve it Blu, you dedicated yourself to help GW2 pvp MUCH more than Anet has. They should get you there regardless.

I’d say just learn to play a thief, and you can beat a thief on war.

The amount of effort it takes a thief to kill a meta warrior is extremely skewed. One mistake and the thief is probably dead.

S/P > D/P + S/D if you want to talk about 1v1 capabilities in a high tier environment. In team play either one works fine.

s/d is just easier to play because if you mess up, just dodge your way out of it. It also works out since the meta now relies so heavily on might stacking, and protection+regen (engis + eles)…but when I play s/p, the other team’s s/d thief is often just prey.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Rolyate.6753:

Cleansing Ire is very easy to counter, the problem comes with berserker stance. It prevents counterplay.

If it were made a shorter duration with a shorter cooldown, it would reduce the period of invulnerability.

berserker stance only grants immunity to conditions, the warrior will still die to direct damage and still can be affected by crowd control skills.

counter play for berserker stance:
- direct damage
- crowd control

cleansing ire is balanced by the way.

The only way cleansing ire would be balanced is if it actually required you to hit someone for it to cleanse condis on Longbow. Say, if someone dodges the initial hit of combustive shot, the warrior should still have those condis on him. Also, adrenaline should drain if you miss the attack, period. You shouldn’t be able to swap to your next weapon set and try again.

That is the main reason why longbow is so necessary in spvp. Sure the fire field is nice, but to be able to clear 2-3 condis on demand without touching anything, is extremely strong. Adrenaline is not hard to come by at all.

You have to understand some classes can only clear that number of condis every 45-60s while a warrior can do that approximately every 8s.

This is also bumped up by the fact that warriors naturally have the highest life pool than any other class and since their base attacks hit hard, they can build like tanks, have a huge life pool, and still dish out damage that’s not far from a zerker.

Take Soldier’s ammy axe/sw+lb for example. Just eviscerate alone…which is just a single skill of the weapon set…I can eviscerate most people for 7-8k. That’s 8k with the following BASE stats (not even might stacked yet): 2300 power, 3100 armor, 25000 hp. Tell me what other class can dish that much damage out with a single attack while having those stats? Along with the ability to cleanse condis easily with LB even if eviscerate doesn’t land is just silly.

It is the reason why warriors are abused nowadays – they are wayyy too forgiving. You can play like crap and get away with it most of the time against mediocre players. The amount of focus and precision needed to fight a decent warrior vs being a warrior is extremely skewed.

Oh, and yes I play warrior a lot. But compared to me playing a thief successfully, I can play a warrior while watching a movie.

Fighting a triple med guardian is all about baiting their blocks/bursts and cleansing burning ASAP.

Think about it, GS+Hammer…what does it miss?

I’ll tell you: Range.

Judges is the only way for them to reach you at 900r. You can just shadowstep away after and cleanse your burning. Go in for a burst so they can pop their cooldowns and immediately swap to SB and range them. Keep a poison field on them and just strafe+autoattack them.

Nothing that a GS+Hammer has can hit you at 900r except for the hammer immob which is extremely telegraphed.

Bruise them at range so they can pop their cds. Mainly you want to pressure them to use shelter + elite. After those are on CD they are very killable especially since they are not using focus.

kishter.9578:

I rage quit the game last night due the moronic thief whit perma dodge and stealth S/P. I know there is always a way to counter a class in some manner, but this is just too annoying to deal.
I was playing a zerker ranger and barely i have trouble whit any 1vs1

S/P with perma dodge and stealth?…S/P doesn’t have anything near perma dodge NOR stealth.

Good joke.

Tachii.3506:

Amaterasu.6280:

Tachii.3506:

D/P is supposed to be good at 1v1s. That’s what it was designed for. It has self-sustainability with a good stealth combo, 4 of its skills only hit a single target anyway, and the fifth is small enough to not greatly affect other enemies either. That isn’t “gimmick”, that’s what you call a properly designed weapon set. S/P for instance is the best at clearing mobs in PvE and is decent in tPvP, but on a roaming set? S/D or D/P would outshine it in its usefulness.

Not sure where you get your last part’s logic from, but there are no problems with s/p as a roaming set. You don’t roam with d/p or s/d, you roam with shortbow.

Nonetheless against other classes with loads of boons, s/d has a slight edge because of the boon steals, but against everything else, I’d argue and say s/p is strongest in those 3 sets especially against another thief. Unless my utilities are all on cd, I very seldomly lose to a s/d thief, even less a d/p thief, in a 1v1 situation.

Uh wut. D/P has been the roaming set for a while now. Primarily because it’s just so good at disengaging but also sustainability and condi removal. Are we talking about the same roaming? Like, in WvW. not in sPvP or something.

I really can’t compare S/P to be on the same versatility as D/P in this scenario. There’s all kind of player skill in WvW, but if all remains relatively equal, D/P is the classic build still. I also didn’t say S/P have problems. Just that D/P or S/D is better at it.

Also, I’m interested in what S/P build you use for WvW roaming. I’ve had troubles everytime I rolled with S/P against D/P or P/D.

I’m talking about spvp, not wvw.

I’m not even going to start the wvw vs spvp player caliber debate, because that’s a whole other can of worms.

I play a standard trickery S/P with very slight modifications. I’m not sure why you’re having trouble against a D/P because they are pretty easy to counter as S/P. Standing black powder just don’t do anything against pistol whip, and if they leap towards you, you pistol whip them in the face while evading…

Fighting another thief is always about anticipation and knowing the build’s limitations. That’s not to say the average thief who plays s/p will have an edge over a d/p or s/d of the same caliber, but at higher levels of play, I personally think and have experienced that s/p > d/p and s/d when fighting another thief.

dylan.5409:

Simple solution would be to give a thief a stacking buff so that they do more damage the longer they stay in a fight while reducing the burst they get from stealth. Other damage modifiers would have to be adjusted as well

Are you sure you’re playing in this meta?

Thieves don’t need stealth to do bursts. We’re talking s/d here, the burst comes from sword 3 and auto attacks.

Condi engis have always been a thief’s bane…in fact any class with good burning upkeep is a thief’s bane – Condi engis, d/d celestial eles, dps guards.

Before lyssa nerf, I’d say the matchup isn’t so bad, but after lyssa nerf, thieves just simply cannot deal with the relentless condi(burning) spam. You can’t outplay incendiary powder unfortunately.

Tachii.3506:

D/P is supposed to be good at 1v1s. That’s what it was designed for. It has self-sustainability with a good stealth combo, 4 of its skills only hit a single target anyway, and the fifth is small enough to not greatly affect other enemies either. That isn’t “gimmick”, that’s what you call a properly designed weapon set. S/P for instance is the best at clearing mobs in PvE and is decent in tPvP, but on a roaming set? S/D or D/P would outshine it in its usefulness.

Not sure where you get your last part’s logic from, but there are no problems with s/p as a roaming set. You don’t roam with d/p or s/d, you roam with shortbow.

Nonetheless against other classes with loads of boons, s/d has a slight edge because of the boon steals, but against everything else, I’d argue and say s/p is strongest in those 3 sets especially against another thief. Unless my utilities are all on cd, I very seldomly lose to a s/d thief, even less a d/p thief, in a 1v1 situation.

d/p is good against a mm?

Sorry but your guildie is horrible as a MM necro.

the sober ninja.6539:

Amaterasu.6280:

I do think they need to fix the animation somehow.

What do you think would be a good way to do this?

I’m not sure honestly – the animation just seems to stutter at the moment…as if you are rubberbanding :/ They just need to make it a smooth animation.

They can’t change the duration of the animation because it cancels out the nerf to allow counter play…so they just need to change the animation itself to be smoother.

OR they could revert back to allowing full evade frames, but bump up the ini to 6 so that it’s no longer spammable.

frans.8092:

Amaterasu.6280:

Having a huge amount of dodges/evades is THE biggest problem with thieves, particularly s/d thieves.

What does s/d have to do with shortbow #3?

I’m sorry, but have you fought a s/d thief and tried to burst one down?

The ability to chain evades through SB 3 and dodges for a long period of time is the reason why acro thieves are considered broken. It made it impossible to lock them down.

Less now, after SB 3 nerf, but still, the dodges are present. By dodges I mean being able to chain 6-8 dodges simultaneously. 3 from regular dodges via feline grace -> signet of agility -> 3 more dodges -> withdraw -> dodge again. If you space these out and actually try to time the dodges, you can easily get 8-9 dodges out in a extremely short period of time. Now add the pre-nerf SB 3 to that…it’s hard to argue that it isn’t OP and overall just promotes low level gameplay.

Reikou.7068:

Amaterasu.6280:

condi engis, properly played warriors, s/d eles, s/p thieves.

A lot of things CAN beat s/d thieves if played properly…fighting s/d is much more about timing / anticipation than anything. If you can play a good s/d, you can probably know how to counter one.

I’d say those are 5-5 matchups at best/worst.

Nothing really hardcounters (2-8 or 1-9 matchups) the AcroTrick S/D thief.

On that note though, it is always dependent on player caliber first. A good player will always beat a bad s/d thief and vice versa.

Thank god for no hard counters, because it is lame.

condi engis, properly played warriors, s/d eles, s/p thieves.

A lot of things CAN beat s/d thieves if played properly…fighting s/d is much more about timing / anticipation than anything. If you can play a good s/d, you can probably know how to counter one.

The change to SB 3 was necessary.

For everyone whose fought a thief prior to the change, the abuse of SB 3 was very apparent. In trouble? No problem, swap to SB and spam 3 until you’re out of range. It was OP.

Having a huge amount of dodges/evades is THE biggest problem with thieves, particularly s/d thieves. It promotes laziness and but doesn’t promote good positioning + timing dodges.

I do think they need to fix the animation somehow, but I think the choice of making it evade in the first 60% of the frames is a solid decision. I think it should be done for all dodge/evade mechanics as well. Having full evade frames mean you really don’t have to time things precisely, thus promotes a lower caliber of player skill.

lvis.3824:

2/x/x/x/6 relies heavy on hitting your steal, if you fail at that every other build ot there is better for your play.

The main reason why ppl switched from 2/6/0/6/0 to 2/6/0/0/6 lies in the strengh runes and everyone running around with it .

Ripping boons of using Strength runes yourself will keep you at a very high amount of might stacks all the time.

But this build is a lot more vulnerable to conditions, cause you dont have pain response , you also lose your 3rd dodge and you normally dont play it with lysaa runes , so you lose this condi cleanse as well.

I would say, you are not forced into any specc at all, you should take a look what professions are in the nmy team and then decide on your own spec + runes / sigils .

Actually the reason for 2xxx6 is because sleight of hand is one of our best traits since buff. Ripping boons can already be achieved by s/d by default and just 4 into trickery would give you bountiful theft.

Sleight of hand = much more frequent steal rate and a on-demand daze which almost works as a stunbreak vs 1v1 bursts. It so happen to work amazingly with bountiful theft to deny stability stomps and/or steal stab for your teammate to stomp with.

Just play what you feel fits your play style.

I started in beta and I played d/d super backstab until it got nerfed to the ground because I enjoyed playing like a assassin, being mobile, and going in for quick bursts. I switched to d/p after because it was the same feeling as d/d. I played s/d before it was larcenous strike on #3 and tactical strike gave a 2s daze, and it was incredibly rewarding to play correctly until they nerfed that too. Finally, I switched to s/p when they finally fixed pistol whip flurry time. I’ve remained s/p since even through the +1 ini nerf , and do not plan to play s/d.

Reason being, I’ve tried the popular s/d for a while, and I just can’t get into it because I didn’t like how forgiving it was. To have that many dodges and evades feel incredibly broken. If you’ve fought against a s/d thief, you already know what I’m talking about. The second you try to burst them, they swap to shortbow and start chaining their dodges and evades like they are giving away candy. I cannot help but feel sour towards the build because it promotes laziness and lack of skill. I’m not saying that s/d thieves are bad in general, but it is WAY more forgiving to play than any other thief build because of the sheer amount of dodges and evades you can put out instantly just because you messed up your positioning and/or timing. Not to mention you can still get good bursts out of it because of the base damage of larcenous strike + might stacks / boons.

With s/p (26006), I have evades through pistol whip, which I cannot spam because of the 6 ini cost, and 2 dodges. That is all. Same concept with d/p.

Unfortunately, we are at a time where pvp is domincated by warriors with 25 stacks of might with soldier’s amulet and engis with their mindless spamming via turrets + burning, so acro s/d with a million dodges doesn’t seem too far fetched.

People will play what is the best for the meta, and that’s ok. I am not hating the players, but the way the current state of the game. It is unfortunate, but I still feel that it’s important to just play the game for fun, and not what you MUST play.

Elegie.3620:

Hammer is a control weapon. If the axe user has stability, then the control brought by the hammer becomes useless against him (unless he’s debuffed, either by a friendly class such as a mesmer or a necro, or maybe by the sigil of nullification).

Now, to answer your question, get used to the evisceration tell, then:

• Inflict as much cripple and chill as you can, as an axe user should never eviscerate while under the influence of one of these two,
• Consider kiting as a useful technique, because (1) staying melee against an axe user is dangerous (the AA hits hard) and (2) the axe per se has no mobility. If the opponent complements his axe with a GS, then know he has exchanged mobility for control and defense, and respond accordingly,
• Anticipate the evisceration by checking out the might stacks. An axe user will rarely eviscerate if he has no might, because that’d be a waste of adrenaline,
• And of course, once he has used the skill, then count about 10 seconds before he uses it again.

Eventually, apply the usual damage mitigation techniques:

• Dodge, and make sure your build contains a source of improvement for your endurance regeneration. Dodge wisely though, i.e. make sure you have another defensive skill ready when you dodge, because skilled users will provoke your dodge before doing their bursts,
• Block, and if your weapons set has no block, ask yourself whether you’re not too damage-oriented. Note that a determined axe user could go for the Sigil of Might, possibly making his evisceration unblockable, at the price of a used skill slot,
• Control, but never forget that a warrior has easy access to stability and breakstuns,
• Use the Berserker’s Stance to avoid soft control, and use Endure Pain to take on bursts. Use them a their fullest though, don’t be controlled (possibly use stability), and inflict damage during their duration.

Regards.

Hammer still > axe if played right. Sure axe users can bring stab, but it is so incredibly easy to land Fierce Blow on them. Weakness is so strong, and they can’t cleanse that unless they land the eviscerate or swap to lb and waste their adrenaline on fire field instead. Not to mention when fighting a axe war, once they run out of stability (which most axe wars only run 1 util for because they want endure pain or sig of stamina) , the fight shifts drastically in the hammer war’s favor. Even with endure pain, they will still be stun-locked and at the mercy of Fierce Blow and weakness.

GJ Aeroxe, you’re one of the better thieves in NA.

Glad you’re sticking to d/p and not s/d.

Rank grinding is no fun at all…I stopped caring when I hit 50 to get the CoF set. Pretty sure I would be 70 if I continued to grind.

Rednik.3809:

And still no answers from devs. Guess Player vs Point deemed as perfectly normal playstyle.

I’ve played against Grouch on a decap engi in team Q. I assume that decap engis are perfectly valid in Anet’s eyes.

All they need to do is 2 things and skyhammer will be MUCH better:

1 – Make hammer dodgeable
2 – Make platforms break a few seconds later so gimmick stuff like pulls and immobs won’t automatically kill you.

I have no problem falling off a cliff because that actually requires poor positioning to do so, but platforms need to go.

When people change their builds + utilities JUST for 1 objective of the map (to pull people into platforms or to troll at the hammer) it is a big problem. A map’s gimmicks should never dictate builds.

You don’t see people change utilities just to fight Forest NPCS, you don’t see people use builds just to solo lord.

Yup…this is ridiculous.

Nothin like waiting 10 mins for Q pop just to get skyhammer vs decap engis and warriors.

anet is too proud to give in.

Decap engis are fine in team play where you can coordinate, but in Solo Q where 90% of the people don’t even know how to rotate…is a big problem.

Every solo Q game I join now has 2 decap engis and most likely 2 warriors too.

Most people in Solo Qs don’t know how to fight or deal with decap engis so they just think to pour in 3v1 against them and lose all other points…which is the total wrong way to go.

Thoth Divine.8642:

kylwilson.9137:

I’m not sure I follow, why every skill you have would be on CD at any point when engaging a thief. I know it can be frantic but there’s no reason to blow through every one of your skills on (both?) a weapon set. I absolutely despise the term ‘L2P’ and I won’t use it.
I won’t. But. Ah! :S

Are you stupid? I’m talking about longer CD like heals or elite skills, virtues, etc. that might be off c/d because I had to use them to bring the Thief to low HP. He then runs away, fully heals up and 5-8 seconds later comes back and finishes the job easily. Sometimes they can even do this 2-3 times without any problem. Obviously, to counter this I try to save a big burst for when they reach 30-40% hp but it doesn’t always work. Again, I don’t think I should be winning against Thieves 100% of the time, but you can’t agree that this isn’t a ridiculous mechanic.

Since you’re talking about virtues, I’m going to assume you play a guardian (dps)

A dps guardian is THE hard counter to a thief if you play it properly. A thief’s worst nightmares are blinds, blocks, retaliation and burning, all of which a guardian has plenty access to. You are just not timing things at the right time.

No thief is running and coming back 5-8 seconds later at full HP. The most common heal is Hide in Shadows and that is a 30s CD. Withdraw is on 15s, but it’s not a stealth heal nor does it cure burning. Besides, why would you let the thief just leave? Must you stand on point if you know that he is around? He can’t cap in stealth…chase his kitten down and don’t let him roam free.

Come duel my DPS guardian on a thief and I’ll show you how fast I can kill one. Again, it’s a l2p issue unfortunately.

hackks.3687:

tronjeremy.5820:

Counter stealth 101

Black powder field
Thieves use heartseeker out of it to gain stealth. AOE that kitten. Swing/attack around that kitten without stepping into it.

Stealth heal.
AOE that kitten. Swing/attack the area. He is already low on health or wants to escape when it’s used. Be aggressive.

Shadow Refuge.
Push/Fear the thief out of that kitten. Swing/attack/aoe the area.

Instant Stealth Abilities/Traits
CC the area AOE that kitten, swing etc.

If there is a thief on the other team and you are getting focused, keep an eye on him. If you get to about half health thats when we love to strike. Just have what you can ready to defend or get out of a surprise backstab.

Don’t forget. You cannot cap/hold points with stealth. You have very few seconds to really stay in stealth unless you use blind powder perma steath in which case AOE that kitten. Especially if you see it against a wall they are there spamming 2.

I wrote this quick so it’s not in detail but it’s simple. I just see people crying about it. If anything thieves would probably have the most to cry about against other thieves and stealth. As its pretty much whoever gets the jump on the other that usually wins in a 1v1 with glassy thief.

that’s nice and all, but “AoEing that kitten” is not a counter. That’s merely punishing a player for poor positioning – i.e. standing in one location for too long.

Like I said, there’s a different between countering a player and countering a skill/mechanic.

It’s hilarious that people label AoE as the “answer to all your problems” in one thread, and then chastise people for utilizing aoe in another thread.

Learning to properly AOE an area IS a counter. How is it not valid? It is no different than learning how to fight any other class mechanic.

If you say that it’s “merely punishing a player for poor positioning” then you have no idea how thieves work. If they are stealthed, 90% of the time they are trying to engage for a backstab. It’s rare that he will just swap to SB and range you. Why? Because SB does kittenty damage at distance because the auto attack is extremely unreliable – cluster bombs are slow as a turtle – and everything else tickles. Ironically as a ranged weapon, SB does the most damage when it is used upclose.

Learning when to block, dodge, blind, and in this case, AOE the area, is a counter to stealth. You have it all wrong if you think that this only counters certain players and not the mechanic itself. Until thieves can backstab you from range, your mindset is invalid.

You guys also tend to exaggerate how long a thief can stealth for…the whole “stealth, rinse and repeat” crap has been long gone. Cruuk was notorious for running a build that did that, but it doesn’t work anymore…and even before Infusion of Shadow nerf, perma stealthing wasn’t effective against anyone who knew how to effectively fight a thief.

I already said it before – beating stealth is about having the mindset of a thief, not about pressing a certain skill/button to automatically beat it.

Spooko.5436:

Stealth should not make players invisible. Stealth should make players translucent like a ranger’s spirit or a mesmer’s phantasm.

Completely concealing a player, or group of players is a broken mechanic, when many classes have no ability to do so what so ever. Plus, this would make the use of stealth much more strategic and give players the ability to counter.

The wisest man in GW2 has spoken.

I no longer want stealth, I want TRANSLUCENCY to be my class mechanic. When I try to escape with translucency, I’ll just go “You don’t see me, you don’t see me, you don’t see me…”

To say that there is no counter play to stealth/ prevention is ridiculous.

Here is the basic scenario of a thief stealthing:

1) Black powder + heartseeker leap

2) Shadow refuge

You can prevent the first by stunning/dazing them before they leap, and you can prevent the latter by using a pull/knockback while they are sitting in it.

There are also plenty of things you can do while they are stealth to prevent a burst – AOE blinds, blocks, invulns, anticipation dodging + positioning.

I just hate when people say there is no counter to stealth…it’s a l2p issue. You cannot stealth forever, and most of it is only 3 seconds. Beating stealth is more of a mindset than a hit-this-button to beat it mechanic.

If you are talking about mesmers which have instant stealth, then yes it is a little more problematic, but if you are quick with targeting and knowing how to find the real mesmer…it’s not much of a problem.

As a s/p thief, I have no problems against decap engis, but I know just how frustrating it is to fight one with another class.

The immunity really is the killer though. Not being able to be cc’d is what saves their kitten .