Guild Wars 2

Virindiira.1025:

Good News. I have no problem to farm allot of stuff for a legendary weapon, but when i have to pay the base weapon for 500+ gold it just suck.

Make it that you have to clear a hard solo dungeon the get the pre weapon. So you earn it with your playing skills.

Certain people on this thread only have one skill. Making money. And they’re desperately trying to keep that one skill to be the only one that’s relevant.

They can have their money for all I care as long as the rest of us aren’t being cut off from content like legendaries becuase the precursors keep getting expensive.

I really don’t see a problem with the way the market currently works and there’s nothing wrong with people making money off of it. At the end of the day, what’s all that gold really worth? A certain item can only become so expensive before everyone decides that farming that item is the best way to make money so they would all go farm it and increase the supply.

The only problem with that system imo happens when an item is really problematic to obtain making the TP the only viable option to get it. This is something I feel happened with the precursors, but these are already being adressed so all will be well as far as I see it.

Safari.3021:

Malediktus.9250:

Why? legendary is not a rarity. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/legendary

Goes to trade post, searches weapon, filters by rarity, sees legendary is the option after exotic, ignores your link thats unrelated to the game in question.

I guess you’ll have a really good argument on your hands if legendaries become more common than exotics then.

Wyrmrider.1692:

Glad to hear this.

However I’m with those who think the whole system as it stands now is just too dull to bother with. But I’d happily spend months or years pursuing an extremely complex, epic quest to craft a legendary, because the journey itself would be fun. “Harvest a corrupted acorn from Twilight Arbor explorable mode, and plant it in the volcanic soil of Mount Maelstrom during the real-life full moon. Water it, prune it, and defend it while it grows up, until it’s ready to be felled and crafted into a staff, which must then be dipped into the blood of each world dragon, and bathed in the glow of each WvW orb of power. Then you must travel alone to the highest point in Tyria (jumping puzzle?) where you must evoke the staff’s newfound power to summon the dreaded Beast of Such-and-Such….” etc. etc. etc.

Since we’re ultimately talking about cosmetic gear, there is plenty of room for any method of acquiring it you can imagine, and I look forward to seeing what A-Net comes up with as the game develops.

Something like this would be my favorite thing as well. Sadly, that looks like quite a large content change so I doubt we’ll be seeing it for the current ones. But I remain hopeful that something like this will happen for the next generation of legendaries.

Safari.3021:

Archer.6485:

Again, you’re not the standard. If you have a legendary then you are among the 0,5%. The things you did don’t apply to the common player. 2 million people can’t make money off finding good farming spots before anyone else or selling items while they’re still in low supply. We need a more universal method, something everyone can engage in.

Then rename “legendaries” to “common”?

Sure, call them commons if it makes you feel better. Btw, do you play League of Legends? Did you ever complain that it needs to be renamed into League of Common as well because anyone can get any champion? And let’s start calling Guild Wars 2 “moving pixels” as well.

OR we could stop obsessing over a simple word. Legendary isn’t even defined as “must be very rare and expensive” so I find it hard to see what the big deal is.

Delolith.9645:

I think I gained around 50g out of TP manipulation. The rest was from pure gameplay. 430 hours played (very focused gaming) and managed to make Bolt. People just overexaggerate cause they don’t have the patience to go through all the things a legendary requires.

My only impatience was with the precursors. I could circumvent the TP by farming for any item I felt wasn’t worth paying for but with precursors I didn’t have that option and I didn’t trust the TP prices to be fair or to remain the same by the time I earned enough gold to buy one.

Erasculio.2914:

It’s not the only viable way. It’s simply the best, and unlimited, way. As a result, people who manipulate the economy are richer than everyone else, and as such drive prices up. Do you realize that the really expensive things in making a Legendary, the Lodestones and the precursors, have prices driven by the players? If all players had less gold, those items would be cheaper. With a few players having a lot of gold (due to TB manipulation) and most people having less gold, the items are at the price they currently are.

TP manipulation should be limited. It needs to be nerfed as much as farming was nerfed with the DR system.

TP manipulation is already limited with a 15% tax. If it was higher the casuals who sell the things they don’t need would probably hurt more. Items like lodestones can only become so much more expensive before they become the best way to farm money and then everyone and their mom will go for them and thus balance out the supply.

The problem with precursors was different because obtaining just one was so random It wasn’t a reliable way to make a profit. That’s why the supply remained small even as the demand increased allowing the few owners to bring the prices higher and higher.

tyu.9470:

I had my legendary on 450-ish hour play time and it included no playing the TP or mystic forge luck or drop. It only included the fact that i searched and found good farm spots for items demanded but not supplied at first few weeks. Also plinx/shelter/penitent spots i’ve been there before they were public knowledge.. cause i simply check around to see where is a good spot.

So yes.. it is totally possible and it already makes them easy enough as they are.

If they’re so easy to get then how come almost nobody has them yet? How many people have it now? I don’t think there are ten thousand people who have it yet and that’s barely 0,5% of the population. You can’t make money off those items you did in the first few weeks anymore. I guess anyone who bought the game two weeks after launch can go kitten themselves?

Again, you’re not the standard. If you have a legendary then you are among the 0,5%. The things you did don’t apply to the common player. 2 million people can’t make money off finding good farming spots before anyone else or selling items while they’re still in low supply. We need a more universal method, something everyone can engage in.

Delolith.9645:

Archer.6485:

Games change, things get adjusted. The feedback was that legendaries were becoming too unreachable and Anet agreed. Get over it.

Btw, some of you people have an incredibly broad definition of the word casuals. To me a casual is someone who’s still working on his exotics or map completion. Or at least someone who doesn’t have 500+ hours yet. You seem to consider anyone who isn’t a TP power trader or a 10h/day Plinx farmer to be a casual. Well in that case it’s no wonder Anet is catering to casuals. They can’t make a game this big for just 1% of it’s current population.

I guess you guys are just too hardcore for this game. How about you try some other game? Or how about life? I hear it’s a real kitten to be successful but if you can do it then all the fame and glory that comes with it will be yours

Btw, even if they actually handed out precursors I still doubt that even 10% of the population would actually go for legendaries.

According to your definition I am a casual then. And if I have a legendary 2 months in the game at 430 hours played…then fail for a legendary item.

I guess you don’t have to be at 500+ hours if you ARE a power trader and/or a huge farmer. If you got a legendary withut either of those methods within 430 hours then I question your methods…

I don’t see why this means the legendary is fail though. Stop looking at yourself as the standard and be objective. I’d say at least 97% of players aren’t anywhere near a legendary so I’d say that’s a win for a legendary item.

Games change, things get adjusted. The feedback was that legendaries were becoming too unreachable and Anet agreed. Get over it.

Btw, some of you people have an incredibly broad definition of the word casuals. To me a casual is someone who’s still working on his exotics or map completion. Or at least someone who doesn’t have 500+ hours yet. You seem to consider anyone who isn’t a TP power trader or a 10h/day Plinx farmer to be a casual. Well in that case it’s no wonder Anet is catering to casuals. They can’t make a game this big for just 1% of it’s current population.

I guess you guys are just too hardcore for this game. How about you try some other game? Or how about life? I hear it’s a real kitten to be successful but if you can do it then all the fame and glory that comes with it will be yours

Btw, even if they actually handed out precursors I still doubt that even 10% of the population would actually go for legendaries.

frak.5239:

i think my point is quite clear… i don’t count the hours i’ve spent on my legendary but i’m pretty sure the will to farm all these events, to always spend time watching the trading post and finding receipes that are shortly profitable is way beyond what the average player does while whining for his legendary

it’s actually quite simple: give yourself the means to get it or don’t get it
if you think it’s too much random, time or frustration for you then don’t get it, whining on forums shouldn’t be a third option

“I have asked people with legendaries questions about the process and I haven’t had 1 person come off rude. "
i answered tons of questions on legendaries and the process, while even helping people achieving some short term goals (skillpoints, tips about what to buy at the moment etc) and will continue to do so since these people are actually working to get it and request help about the process, they’re not whining on forums while doing nothing because they estimate it’s not worth their time to get a shiny weapon

You play the TP right? Probably made a nice profit off of it? It’s all good. So you know that sometimes prices drop sometimes they rise. Everytime you buy something you make an educated guess that you’re buying it cheap and that you can sell it for more. Smetimes you win and sometimes you lose. It’s all part of the game. The biggest of these changes (and the biggest profits that were made) happen because of changes that Anet makes themselves. As a good TP trader you should always put potential patch notes into consideration.

The legendary changes (whatever they will be) are these kind of large market shifts. If you already bought a precursor you lost money, if not then you saved it. That’s how the game works. You can’t support TP trading and then whine when the numbers don’t turn your way. You played the game, you made profits, this time you lose. So get over it.

TP trading is there for people who like doing this sort of thing but it SHOULD NOT be the only viable way to get enough gold for a legendary. This is not Economy Wars 2. If you can’t get what you want through normal play then the system is broken. With the exception of certain mmos like EvE, these types of games aren’t designed around market trading. They’re designed around going out and playing the actual game.

Very good news. I guess they were waiting for the results of all the bot bans they did before they made an official comment on the market.

Well, I knew they were still listening

Making money off crafting always seemed weird to me. That means you coul just buy mats from the TP and instantly turn them into more money you had to begin with. It takes almost no effort on your part.

The only way such a system can work is if crafting was very difficult to max out(or if certain recipes were rare) or if the actual process of crafting involved a certain amount of time and effort, maybe like a minigame.

But it seems pretty logical to me that you can’t make money by clicking buy, clicking craft and then clicking sell.

Dogblaster.6713:

You also dont get it. These weapons, these LEGENDARY weapons are called this way for a good reason. Only FEW players in the world should have them, even if the most rich, or luckyest ones!

Infact I saw about 10 players myself on my server having legendary is making me wonder, how many players will have them in 2 months? 5% population, 20%? Who knows, but thats not how it should be, if you ask me.

You just cant complain that only the richest, luckiest, etc people have the legendaries, that the rest of us is cut off. Cause thats the whole point of legendaries.

How many people do have Bugatti Veyron ? Do you think its 5%, 10% of world population? I think its about 0,0001 … That makes this car LEGENDARY.

I dont have legendary and I am not even close to finishing it, but I dont need to come here and complain.
——————————————————————————————————————————
All you do here is just trying to throw ideas and call Areanet dumb and lazy for what they have done, for rng, high prices, etc etc. But all they do and they ve done has good reasoning and they are educated people and company and I am 100% sure, none of you knows more them they do. They have numbers, statiscitc, etc. What you have? Nothing .. just assumptions.
Let arenet monitore this problem, discuss and decide whats is the best for the game, company and for the us. I really dont want any of you decide about this anyway

By the way. They are already making something about bots, prices .. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Recent-Market-Shifts/first

Be patient

Yes Anet knows everything that we do and more, that’s why they keep telling us: “Your feedback is useless to us so shut the hell up!” Except they don’t because they’re actually even smarter than that. They know that they can make their game better if they pay close attention to the feedback from their players who are experiencing the game. And that’s what we’re doing here. Giving feedback.

The argument that they need to be super rare because they’re called LEGENDARY is completely kitten btw. In League of Legends the champions you play are all legendary. EVERYONE GET’S TO PLAY THEM. What’s up with that? It’s called League of LEGENDS! It should only be accesible to a small minority right? Btw, LoL made a fortune by making their game ACCESSIBLE TO ALL.

And please please please for the love of all that is holy STOP using real world analogies.

“How many people can use magic? 0%!!! So how come everyone can just make a mage character in Guild Wars 2?” That’s about how intelligent your Bugatti Veyron argument sounds to me.

I don’t get you Colbear. You keep repeating how important it is that getting a precursor takes at leat 150-300 hours of work yet you keep saying that new players who by definition haven’t yet done the work shouldn’t be at a disadvantage against older players who have. I would preffer a system where personal work counts more than the work of a guild or a hardcore TP trader or even a gold buyer. Though I do think guilds should have their own goals to strive towards, the kind that actually benefit the entire guild not just one guy (Guild Halls maybe?) Still I don’t care if the old options remain as long as new ones are introduced. Oh and just to be clear, the achievement suggestion should be limited to unique achievements. Dailies and salvages shouldn’t count.

Don’t take this the wrong way but I’m starting to realize that it’s really hard to have a conversation with you because you can’t let go of your assumptions. You have this assumption that we don’t want to work 150-300 hours for our precursor even though we keep saying we don’t want things easier. You assume that we’ll still be complaining once they give us a fixed recipe. I guess it must seem easy to argue with us when you can just make up what our arguments are. And yes, you sound like a very reasonable person when you’re talking to your little strawmen. But you need to start looking at what we’re saying instead of just guessing what we really want and what we’ll actually do once we get it. And then you’ll realize that if you’re not against introducing different (non rng) methods of obtaining a precursor than we’re already on the same side.

Colbear.6425:

Oh, sorry, I thought people had suggested “dungeon tokens” or “wvw tokens” or “trade rares/exos for tokens” or “trade these items” as alternatives to forging a precursor and that those were being considered as viable suggestions.

Did you have a suggestion for getting a precursor that wasn’t that? I saw the “make it drop more often for ‘elite’ players (lots of time spent playing to get achievements or achievement points)” suggestion, but it seemed pretty unfair because it meant only old players would have them, and would sell them on the market at inflated prices and would just mean old players make way more gold than new players just for having old accounts.

I don’t get it. What’s wrong with ‘old players’ who have actually done as many different things in the game as possible having a better chance at a precursor? They can make precursors gained through achievements account bound to prevent selling them for gold. It certainly sounds like these players would be more deserving of going for a legendary rather than dumb luck people who had it drop on their first trip to Cursed Shore. Obviously any ‘new player’ can still gain those achievements himself. I have more gold than my friends because I’ve been playing for more hours than them. Does that make it unfair.

Also, I don’t get what your problem with suggestions on this thread is. Even if you prove beyond doubt that none of them would work (which you can’t), is that supposed to mean something? Is that supposed to convince us that there are no viable solutions out there and that the system we have now is the only option? You do realize that we’re not actually Anet’s dev team right? They can probably come up with better stuff than we can. With any luck they’re already working on something.

Hippocampus.8470:

Archer.6485:

The fact that there are only 5 listed means there aren’t even remotely enough of them. Such a low supply will always be subject to instability. The fact is, legendaries as they are now can hardly be considered game content. They may as well not exist for all the benefit it brought to the game and it’s players. Maybe a few dozen people can go for it but the rest of us are pretty much cut off. It’s content we don’t get to experience because we either don’t have hours and hours of game time every day or because we’re not into hardcore TP trading.

So amid all the people saying people who just want cheaper/easier legendaries don’t really exist, we have you saying there should be more of the precursors. Which can only happen if they are cheaper or easier to obtain.

Most of us should be cut off from them, unless we put a ton of effort into it, because that’s what makes them “legendary”. If something is changed so you can make definite measurable progress toward getting a precursor, it shouldn’t simultaneously make them easier to obtain. More predictable, perhaps, but not cheaper or easier.

You twisted my words. I said there’s not enough precursors on the TP and because of that the precursor market is unstable. This is due to the large randomness involved in obtaining a precursor.

Many people don’t want to gamble with the MF so they’re not supplying the precursors only demanding them, others are willing to gamble on them but only for themselves and if they fail, they’ll still be in demand for a precursor. This is creating a situation where the supply is far outweighing the demand.

I guess I could be more accurate and say we need more suppliers who produce these precursors either for themselves or for the rest of the market. Making them more predictable would indeed achieve that goal without making them easier or cheaper at all. To reiterate, I DON’T want easier precursors, your conclusions on that are false.

Eadren.6295:

I just wanted to chime in on something I noticed this morning. On Gate of Madness, last night Spark’s highest listing was 280 gold, and there were 5 total listings. This morning there is only 1 listing for Spark and its priced at 400 gold. I realize that its entirely possible 4 individuals purchased Sparks before morning but I can’t help my suspicious mind from wondering if this isn’t obvious market manipulation.

It doesn’t matter if it was market manipulation or just 4 people buying them. The fact that there are only 5 listed means there aren’t even remotely enough of them. Such a low supply will always be subject to instability. The fact is, legendaries as they are now can hardly be considered game content. They may as well not exist for all the benefit it brought to the game and it’s players. Maybe a few dozen people can go for it but the rest of us are pretty much cut off. It’s content we don’t get to experience because we either don’t have hours and hours of game time every day or because we’re not into hardcore TP trading. The one thing that Anet has stood for and pretty much delivered in every other aspect of the game is failing when it comes to legendaries.

And I can’t believe there’s still people who come here, skip all the 17 pages and try to “educate” us about ingame economy and how we’re just being entitled and keep bringing up the same kitten arguments that they think are so original and have never been brought up even though we adressed them about a million times now. Thank you for deciding not to post again Ravax. You contributed nothing and if you want to know why then all you have to do is go back and read the full thread because I’m getting tired of repeating myself for people like you who come along every other day beating that dead horse over and over and over.

I never denounced farming so I’ll assume that part of your post wasn’t aimed at me.

People gravitate towards a fixed recipe because it’s the most straightforward solution and it in no way implies we want it “easier” although you seem to be desperate to make it seem that way. Obviously we’d all like it to be even more fun and challenging but that’s not the core issue. The core issue is (yes I’m saying it) the RNG. Everyone hates it, everyone has a good reason to hate it. Yes it can in fact be as simple as that. So we want it gone and a fixed recipe is the fastest solution.

If Anet decides to make a larger change that makes obtaining legendaries more engaging then all the better but I don’t think they need us to come up with that change. There’s no need to attack people just because they haven’t come up with with different ways of doing it although I have seen suggestions such as implementing jumping puzzles or very difficult gameplay challenges. I’m sorry your own suggestions weren’t commented on, but maybe they just aren’t that popular. Again, there’s no point in blaming it on the idea that people want it easier. I’m sure many people here would like the inclusion of jumping puzzles and mini dungeons for making precursors though. There was also someone who said we could have achievement points increasing our chances of getting a precursor. That’s a suggestion right?

And no, I don’t expect Dusk to fluctuate for only 1 copper at a time. My point was that your percentages do not in any way shape or form change the issue here. The only thing you really did was explain WHY an item like Dusk can change it’s price by that much. But is still doesn’t mean that this is a GOOD thing.

Yes, you buy logs to profit from market fluctuations, good for you. But how is that related to Dusk? When someone finds out they have to pay 50g extra for Dusk do you tell them “Don’t worry fluctuations from logs and ore matter a lot more than the ones from Dusk”? See how that doesn’t make sense? So when you say one matters more than the other I’d say that’s relative.

LFk.1408:

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/29185

Zoom your view to 1 month.

Next time, please look at a chart before you talk. No, I never proclaimed Dusk to be stable in price, or precursors period, but just looking at it now, it is actually massively more stable than many other items.

For something in such high demand with low supply, I’m in awe of how the price stayed as steady as it has.

2 Precursors that have been wildly less stable over the last month, and are much better examples, are Chaos Gun and Energizer. But because neither one is dusk no one noticed and no one cares amirite?

From its last price jump (October 12), the average for Dusk sell has been around 375g.
Even taking the recent spike to 430 as an absolute indication of value fluctuation (irresponsible, but for argument’s sake), the variance is 55 gold from the mean ‘stable’ value, or in other words 14% variance in the positive direction.
The low mark of 310 sets it at 17% in the negative direction, since 10/12.

This is INCREDIBLY low variance, for a time span (almost a month) that is a little less than half the total time the game has been out (2 months and change)

For your enjoyment, here are some other common items, and their peak fluctuation ranges since 10/12. Selected at random:
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19702
Platinum Ore: 23c -> 44c peak, or 91% increase.
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/24293
Vial of Thick Blood: 40c -> 65c peak, or 62.5% increase 40c -> 20c low, or 50% decrease.
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/12128
Omnomberry: I’m not even sure what happened on the 24th.

I’m incredibly glad you guys enjoy taking sound bites and trying to turn them into points of argument. Parisalchuk, that IS in fact what politicians like to do.

The reason I continue to put the work in to break apart and look more closely at people’s claims is exactly this. You need facts to back up what you are saying. I expect dusk to be instable/increase in price moving forward, given the market demand relative to supply. However for one reason or another, it seems to be rather stable. My best guess is that the ticket price simply prices out the majority of the market for it. Price spikes will follow when individual wealth catches up with price, so it wouldn’t surprise me in the least. This is the nature of inflation in games, and will happen to most if not all sought after items that are in short supply. This “problem”, if you regard it to be one, is not isolated to precursors.

Frankly, I think if ANet regards the price as a problem, the fix is as simple as improving the particle effects on all the legendaries that aren’t Greatswords, or equalizing the importance of underwater combat (an underwater equivalent of Plinx will be all it takes). I really enjoy it when people say “precursor” but they really mean “dusk”.

Did you know the cheapest precursor is about 12g? A great many are still available under 100g.

Your numbers are only persuasive if you look at the numbers relatively. But when it comes to the actual amount of money there are probably no greater fluctuations than those of Dusk. A change from 380g to 430g is 50g which is huge. Even when you look at items like platinum in bulk you don’t get those kind of numbers soon. A person would have to buy 23809 platinum ores at 44 copper in order to suffer the same gold loss from the price increase as if he were buying Dusk. That’s why it’s a lot more normal for cheaper items to have greater fluctuations. Comparing examples like platinum ore and Dusk is completely ridiculus.

I doubt anyone here who’s trying to buy Dusk will be comforted by the fact that they’ll only have to pay a 14% variance increase when that variance translates into 50 gold.

And yes, not every precursor is as problematic as Dusk and I’m sorry that we keep saying "precursors"instead of “those particular precursors that are extremely expensive and are rising in price”. It’s semantics but it doesn’t change anything. Even if there’s a problem with only one precursor it’s still a problem and it should be resolved.

I don’t mind hope, I just don’t want people attacking Anet afterwards as if they had promised to change precursors on the 15th.

Btw, I’m only seeing 2 Dusks left right now. The cheapest is 430 gold. That’s the market stability I’d expect for an item that’s so rare.

I would advise people not to get overexcited about the November 15th patch. We have zero reason to believe that it’s going to be this particular patch. Anet certainly hasn’t said anything about it. besides, depending on how simple the change is it could appear in just about any of the smaller patches.

Colbear.6425:

Well. Why would it be better? Because it’s easier? What if they just made a vendor that would sell it at 1000g? Would that be okay?

Not easier, just a more clear and stable goal that doesn’t shift depending on market fluctuations and luck factor. I said I didn’t want it easier, that doesn’t mean I want it harder either.

oZii.2864:

Just adding perspective thats all. Legendary is luxury Item not required to play. Perspective

Everyone here already knows what legendaries are. We don’t need you to explain it.

Luxury or not obtaining items in an mmo is a large part of the game, therefore how it’s done can be a major factor in how much people enjoy it. And if some of us feel it’s done badly and could be made better than we’re going to talk about it.

If we say the method of obtaining legendaries is bad and you say “they’re luxury” then what’s the perspective here? They’re luxury so it’s ok if the method of obtaining them sucks? Or maybe, they’re luxury so the method of obtaining them is supposed to be unfun? That’s some nice perspective there.

The prices of those mats would probably increase, but not by that much since the supply would increase by a lot as well. The general rule of thumb would be: If you can collect mats faster than you can collect money to buy them off the TP then you’re better off collecting the mats instead of buying them.

It’s harder to increase the supply of precursors with the current system since only people who make them from the MF and don’t want them for themselves will sell them. I can’t imagine there’d be many of those people, except the ones who want to gamble just for the sake of gambling.

@Colbear

The fixed recipe isn’t meant to make things easier (at least that’s not what I’m asking for) It’s meant to give us a more clear and stable goal. Sure it’d still take a while, but for every item I farm out or purchase off the TP I would be one step closer without a possibility of decay. That’s kind of what I’m doing with the TP precursors now. If the prices remain that’s great, if not I’ll feel screwed. That’s also why I would never go for the MF route. I just don’t trust that kitten genie.

I’m sure some people still wouldn’t be happy. In fact some people will never be happy. But I’ve been reading this thread since page one and there are a lot of people who only want that fixed recipe and they’ll be fine with that.

I also wouldn’t use lodestones for the recipe but only stick to items used in crafting weapons that have so far been thrown into the MF. That’s the best way to not rattle the market too much since the items used in making the precursor will technically remain the same.

Colbear.6425:

You asked “Well they changed it once and made people extremely upset but now it cannot be undone or changed or it would make people extremely upset”

I answered: “The reason they changed it was because they were fixing a bug, not responding to complaints, so they’re two entirely different things”.

Dungeon rewards ARE working as intended, but I feel like difficulty level was not, where it was too high and people were finding it more worthwhile to exploit dungeons than to play them as intended.

How many precursors do you think were made from that bug? Ten thousand? A hundred thousand?

And I was responding to a person who said the current system shouldn’t be changed because “it would upset a lot of people”. If something can be made better then it should be. There’s no reason why they shouldn’t change things for the better just because they are “working as intended”

@Ozii:
I’m sorry but your comment is completely useless.

Obviously there’s more Dusks than just the ones on the TP but how much more is kind of a speculation. Imo the number of them on the TP right now is too low to ensure price stability. They jumped up really high after the change so it’s no wonder it stoped rising for a while. We’ll see if it always remains like that.

And there’s still no point why they shouldn’t create a fixed averaged out recipe.

Colbear.6425:

Prices are stabilized, and they’ve stabilized at 350g for literally the most desired item in the game and sub 250 for most others. Assuming you farm for two hours a day to earn 3g/day, you can get one in 3 months. One and a half months if you also gather for 3g/day but only do it once a day because you don’t have alts. Assuming you can’t play the market because you don’t know math.

You know it also costs 120 gold to get a legendary too, right? Because you have to buy runestones and the two crafted recipes?

You can’t just randomly accuse people of being cheaters because they’ve somehow farmed more than you and/or are luckier than you and/or don’t gamble with bad odds but instead buy an expensive item off the TP. That’s hardly fair to them.

I’d be pretty upset if I worked really hard and farmed 200g and decided that instead of throwing it all in the forge I’d buy a Chaos Gun for 130g on the market instead. And then suddenly you’re just saying “oh he’s a CLEARLY a cheater who abused an exploit” just because I disagree with you.

Why do you have to be so rude?

So what happens in 3 months when let’s say 1000 people (0,05% of the population) farm that 350 gold and there’s still only 15 Dusks on the TP? Will the prices still be stable? Also, I’m pretty sure just about everyone here knows what the prices for other mats are, thank you.

But I agree people shouldn’t just randomly accuse others of being cheaters. That’s getting us nowhere.

Dungeon rewards were working as designed as well. That doesn’t mean the design was a good idea. Anet changed it and are still in the process of changing it because they recognized the original design could have been better.

This doesn’t change the fact that the damage was done due to the bug and it’s not an argument as to why there shouldn’t be any more changes.

BowmasterSol.3457:

My thoughts on precursors from another post:

Unfortunately, their RNG system for precursors has been implemented and can not be undone or changed without getting people extremely upset. Granted, there are people upset about the system in general, but a lot of people who already used a lot of their time/gold would feel even more cheated. Even the players who legitimately got a precursor from the mystic forge would be hurt that they could have used their gold/time on any new system or change they implement. The damage has been done and Anet is going to have to stick to their guns on these weapons.

However, I see Anet slowly releasing more specific mystic forge recipes into the game with skins that are very popular even if there is a lack of particle effects. A good example of this would be Arachnophobia introduced in the Halloween event. Anet needs to increase the amount of desirable weapon and gear skins that avoid extremely low chance RNG and are obtained by more definite means.

I would also like to see Anet add a second generation of legendary weapon skins that use a lot more mats but require zero RNG from the Mystic Forge (mystic clovers are somewhat of an okay exception to this).

Actually the damage had already been done when the godskull weapons were exploited and people had gotten their precursors very cheap. And yet Anet changed it anyway without any regard as to how many people became extremely upset with it.

So where’s the logic in “Well they changed it once and made people extremely upset but now it cannot be undone or changed or it would make people extremely upset” ?

LFk.1408:

In a word: Sorry, that’s how the chips fell.

I didn’t get one when the market was easier. I wish I had.

Some people took advantage of a situation that was open. You don’t fix it by just saying “screw it, give one to everyone”.

I’m a strong advocate of playing the market, and looking at more than just what is in front of your face. I don’t change my philosophy here. Someone made a smart play. It wasn’t me, and I hope I catch whatever the next big edge is.

My bank is filled top to bottom with things I believe will gain value in the future.
I hope I’m right. And if I am, I don’t like hearing people cry that it wasn’t fair how much I made off of this. Such is the market. That’s just my opinion, and how I look at things.

I have nothing against playing the market, but these particular chips fell due to an exploit so it’s a bit harder to justify. And it makes me wonder about the current position of legendaries. They’re hardly seen with the awe they’re meant to inspire.

Also, my suggestion was NOT “screw it, give it to everyone.”

My prefferd suggestion is to make a fixed recipe that averages out the current RNG. Precursors would cost the same to make on average as if you tried the Mystic Forge route, except you wouldn’t get extremely lucky or unlucky. The MF route could still be there for those who want to gamble. Technically, this wouldn’t make it harder or easier, since you would only remove the rng and rng has nothing to do with difficulty.

What could possibly be wrong with having a recipe like that in the game? Because more people would have it then? Why is that? Because our goal actually became visible? Rng is a pathetic mechanic to promote exclusivity and it gives the lucky owners a sense of elitism they don’t deserve. If every single player does what it takes for a legendary than every single player deserves to have it. But rng will always prevent that.

If we’re entitled than what does that make the “some people aren’t meant to have it” guys? Elitist snobs who think they’re royalty if they make a lucky dice roll? Who thinks like that? Who needs the misfortune of others not having something in order to feel good about themselves and their own items?

Ok, I went on a bit of a rant but my point stands.

I see, but it doesn’t change the fact that the current owners of legendaries did get precursors much much more easily than it is possible now. If you’re happy with the current system, then how do you feel about the fact that the world first records for legendaries are being held by people who got them with a much more forgiving system? The thing you didn’t want to happen (people getting legendaries too easily) has already happened. So what’s so special about legendaries now? The damage is already done.

In any case you were looking for feedback on your achievement suggestion right? Well as someone who DOES want to see changes to the system I gave you my opinion on how I thought it would be best utilized. As a separate goal for people who want things that are even harder to obtain while giving more options (not harder but more equal) for people who want legendaries.

I think the 100% achievement would be an interesting goal to pursue (with certain exclusions as you mentioned) but it’s a task so monumental I feel like it should have it’s own reward item that’s separate from the legendaries.

If you made that kind of change with legendaries now, then what do you do with people who already have them? Take them away? Leave them? You can’t rationalize how people got it so easy before and now it gets so much harder for everyone else. And if you take them from those who already have them, how do you explain it to people who had done the work Anet had set up for them?

GW2 right now is lacking a larger variety of (rewarding) goals to pursue. Getting to 80 and have full exotics is too easy for many and getting a legendary feels far too much especially with precursors increasing in prices like that.

What I think should happen is this:

a) Make a 100% precursor recipe that averages out the amount of attempts that are needed in the Mystic Forge, so people can enjoy the pursuit of a legendary as part of their endgame without having to worry about low RNG.

b) Create a new reward for completing the 100% achievement challenge for the people who want and even harder challenge so that it’s guaranteed that the people who really absolutely need to stand out will work for it.

This way you could satisfy a larger demographic. Trying to keep legendaries exclusive and even harder to obtain is a lost cause. People who got them obtained them much easier than the rest of us (not to mention you can make it even easier with RL money). In my eyes they no longer hold the prestige that they were supposed to because you can’t really know how much work the player actually put into it.

Am I the only one who actually has more money after I leave a dungeon? It’s not as fast as Orr farming but it feels faster because unlike Orr I’m not bored outofmy mind.

The “Plinx dilemma” is people’s own kitten fault imo. There is stuff to do right out there for anyone that wants to. It’s their choice to keep running that DE because they’re not interested in playing they’re just interested in making money/karma as fast as possible.

What do you want Anet to do? Remove the entire DE? Increase the DR again? That’ll just bring more complaints. Let me guess. You’re asking for new farming grounds? Which won’t solve anything because everyone will just migrate over there and we’ll have the same situation again.

Everyone who currently has a legendary got their precursor when it was dirt cheap. People say legendaries need to be like this so we can work really hard for them. But then how come the people who did it easy already have the legendary and the people who are working hard just get screwed?

People are still saying not everyone should have a legendary cause it won’t feel special enough? When I get my legendary I’m going to feel good about it because I have it.

But apparently some people can only feel good about themselves when other people don’t have the things they have. Kind of a kittened up mentality when you think about it.

oZii.2864:

4. Your Endgame is legendaries. A-Net never said legendaries are end game. Quote please? Source link something

http://en-gb.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/324689481

This is the video when legendaries are first mentioned.

At around 5:20 he says they’ll be talking about what you can do when you reach lvl 80 (the endgame that they have in mind). He then proceeds to talk about several things that they are presenting to us as endgame. One such thing is the use of the Mystic Forge to make cool skins new skins for yourself. The legendaries specifically get talked about at 12:00.

Would it be better if it was some super awesome thing that everyone absolutely wanted? How would that be fair to everyone that couldn’t make it?

Anatax.3905:

This game has been out for just over two months. And look how many of you whine and cry about not having a precursor, which really means not having a Legendary weapon. The ultimate skin in the game to show off and look impressive with. QQ some more. Quit wasting all your time madly devoted to this slavish RNG quest. There are tons of other cool things to do in this game. WVW is awesome, always moving and changing, and is a huge social adventure as you have to learn to work together to succeed. Try bringing your fully decked out toons to the battlefield and benefit your server. Your slavish devotion to this Legendary Quest makes me laugh at all the hundreds of hours of gameplay time you devote and waste to it. Cry some more Final Fantasy Legendaries took years for huge guilds 60 man teams to get for one guy on the team. Get into the battlefields and quite being obsessed over winning the GW2 lottery!

How about we do what we want in the game and you do what you want? You don’t see me coming to WvW forums and telling people how dumb they are for complaining about the issues they’re having.

You’re calling it a “slavish rng quest” and I agree. It sucks the way it is now, which is why many of us are here, saying that we want it changed. Strange concept, I know.

I also agree that everyone who wants a precursor in two months is lame. Haven’t seen a single person like that so far, but yea screw those guys.

lackofcheese.5617:

A single patch or discovery can just as easily bring the prices down as up. None of this demonstrates the reasonableness of your suggestion that prices of precursors will continue to rise beyond the ability of most people to earn gold.

Yes, and since all the changes that affected precursors so far have raised their prices I think it’s high time for a drop. Maybe in the form of a patch that removes the rng from obtaining it.

lackofcheese.5617:

There’s a big difference between eating money and eating items; don’t confuse the two.

You didn’t really answer my point. Items and gold aren’t the same but they’re connected and either way the MF still makes you loose out.

lackofcheese.5617:

The “same type” requirement is somewhat weird and unintuitive here – would you have 10 different buffs if you were doing 10 different weapon types? Nonetheless, while it doesn’t matter to me, I do agree that you could probably come up with a system that modifies the odds to give you an eventual guarantee of some kind. It would be less elegant than the current system, though.

The reason I said your point was weak, is because it doesn’t even remotely matter how unelegant or unintuitive Anet makes the recipe. You said it would work and it’s the only thing most of us “whiners” really want. Anet should definitely do it then. I don’t care if I have to click and confirm on every individual sword in order to use the recipe, I’ll still take it over the MF’s RNG.

Baseless? Really? You watch the market. Many things have affected it already. A single patch or discovery can make a difference. You know as well as I do that there will be more changes. You alone came up with three things that affected the price of precursors already. Four if we count the karma and godskull exploits separatly.

I rely on ingame economy but only to the point I want to. With precursors I’m obligated to. Pretty much any other item for the legendary I could potentially farm out on my own. Lodestones and t6 mats would take me the longest but at least with every item gained I would be one step closer and no one could take that progress away from me. With precursors I can’t do that because the MF is designed to eat your money not reward you.

You make good arguments but the one about fixed recipies being too inconvenient is really weak. Here’s one simple idea. You remove the precursors as random chance but for every use of 4 same type of rare/exotic weapon you get a corresponding number on a stacking buff. When you have the right number of stacks you get a guaranteed precursor. The method of obtaining precursors would remain exactly the same (throwing weapons into the forge) it would just take out the randomness. I’m sure Anet could think of a much more elegant design though.

Azi.2045:

First off, english not being my main language, I’d want to make sure that in saying
“entitled to a legendary” i mean players that feel its their right to get one, that
they have kind of a claim to it.

To help you with your english, even when you phrase it like that, the word “entitled” is kind of a negative word, so by calling us entitled you’re basically insulting us right off the bat.

Like others have posted, Anet’s plans was to make an mmo that doesn’t have the frustrating elements of other mmos. They even talked about RNG specifically. They basically said they hated the idea of not getting anything from dungeons and raids because of low RNG, which is why they implemented the token system in dungeons.

Some RNG exists of course but the numbers are always reasonable enough to reach a normal average and there’s no problem with that. The only crazy low RNG chance are the precursors. It doesn’t seem to make much sense why Anet would make such a different design choice in this case.

Also, when you were raiding in those other games, at least you weren’t loosing large amounts of money doing it. Worst case scenario, you came out empty handed. With the Mystic Forge your progress can literally go backwards.

You have a lot of faith in thinking that everything will just balance out. I doubt the system is that perfect. In order for the supply of precursors to remain steady you need people to constantly make bets on the MF (people who want to make a profit, not people who just want a precursor for themselves, since they won’t supply the TP) Right now T5 fine crafting mats have droped in price and I think mithril and elder wood have as well. Halloween is obviously to blame but still, by your reasoning, someone will sooner or later have to buy these mats up, get precursors and post them on the TP with lower prices, in order to balance the cheaper mats. So I should expect cheaper Dusks anytime now right? I sure hope that not everyone has lost interest in the really unreliable MF. Especially now that all the videos have shown just how bad the drop rate can be.

I said before that the precursor market being as rare as it is will probably always cater to the richest players. People who make money slowly can easily be left behind. And I don’t see why I should be paying gem taxes just to keep my gold progress from decaying.

A fixed price could solve all these problems. The MF wouldn’t be used but who cares since according to you the economy can so easily balance itself out. If you need the item sink, just make the cost whatever the average amount of items thrown to obtain it was. The amount of items sunk will remain exactly the same.

You simply cannot guarantee what’s going to happen to the market in six months time. I have no reason to trust it and there is no reason why I should have to rely on ingame economy to obtain my precursor.

I’m not really willing to bet which items will still be valuable in 6 months, since there’s no telling what new patches will bring. (halloween caused the prices of high tier crafting materials to drop. Will they ever recover to their previous prices?)

Precursors have been inflating since they first showed up on the TP, even before the godskull fix. Inflation happens in every mmo. In the real world, inflation can only happen when a country puts more money into circulation. In an mmo we’re constantly “printing” money with every event completed and every item sold to the vendor. Even GW2 with all it’s money sinks can’t stop it.

You don’t see it on oversupplied items because there’s an item inflation as well. That doesn’t help the precursor prices though since those will always be super rare.

Hippocampus.8470:

Bartho.7896:

Prices havent been stable they jumped by 160g in one week for some of the precursors.

Dawn and Dusk and some of the others that have existed long enough for stability to be possible, have been stable. Please point to the last week when any of those jumped by 160g (as in, the prices before that week were at least 160g lower than the prices after that week).

You need to consider these prices for the long term as well. This isn’t about individual weeks. Depending on how busy I am, farming 350 gold could potentially take me 6 months. Do you honestly think there will be no inflation in GW2 within 6 months? The supply of precursors is incredibly low, this means that the popular ones will not reflect the prices of the general population but the prices of the richest population and I’m pretty sure that the richest population will have quite a bit more money than 350g within 6 months.

It’s just a skin? Oh, well thanks for making me realize that, I totally didn’t know. Things are so much better for me now.

And yes! I totall did want Anet to just give me a precursor! But with your post I finally see the error of my ways. How did I not see that there were all these other expensive items to obtain? Man, you must feel so good about yourself for making all of us see the light and finally realize how wrong we were, because we totally didn’t know all this stuff about legendaries.

Ye, I doubt I’ll ever feel as proud about my legendary once I obtain it than I did when I finally got into the tower after 4 hours of non-stop attempts. That’s some bragging rights material right there.

The time investment is much smaller of course, but when every minute of those 4 hours felt more legendary than anything I’ve done so far to make gold or karma for the legendary weapon, it really makes you think…

A series of hardcore challenges like this one would always be a better option. Even if I never did it this way because there was some challenge that I just couldn’t complete, at least I would have no one to blame but myself.

I totally understand the “this again” comment since believe it or not, you’re not saying anything new OP. The post rainshine made didn’t say anything new either but whose fault is that? If we have to keep explaining the same stuff over and over again because people refuse to understand our complaints then obviously there’s going to be repetition.

Your arguments are actually well thought out and make perfect sense, I would even go as far as saying that you’re quite right about the issue. The issue being about “entitled” players. The issue that doesn’t really exist here.

Anyone can make an easy argument about why entitled players are bad, so congratulations for that feat. Now how about you try making a point about the actual specific complaints that we had about obtaining the precursors for the past few weeks? I’m sure you know what those complaints are since you’ve apparently been reading long enough to get the feeling of the general “mindset” of this game’s community.

Let’s see how well your arguments hold up when you’re not dealing with “overentitled” strawmen.

Edit: just so we’re clear, since you felt that your post was entitled to a brand new thread, I’m expecting some fresh new stuff coming from you.

I’ve had this theory since GW2 came out but now the evidence is overwhelming.

Jumping puzzles are Anet’s revenge to all the people who complained about there being no jumping in Guild Wars 1. Their plan is to kill us all with a series of mini heart attacks.

Just kidding.
I love the Clock Tower, keep up the good work Anet!