Guild Wars 2

Thank you for your observations OP. I know all about what getting the other mats for a legendary involves and while it is quite a daunting task it doesn’t worry me in the slightest, because like I said I know EXACTLY what it involves.

The precursors however I DON’T know what it’s going to take and that’s the problem. The numbers are so low they simply can’t be predicted even with a huge number of attempts.

@ Skar Hand
Thank you! I keep writing that this is the main problem. With so few precursors available on the TP it’s just too easy to manipulate the prices. Once again there are no Dusks on the TP and when a new one appears there’s nothing stopping the seller from adding another 50g or so to the price tag.

@death Touch

Congratulations, you made crazy amounts of money, but some of us don’t want to play the TP, we just want to play the game and get the legendary at our own pace. The problem is, there’s not enough od them!

Current prices don’t even matter because the supply on the TP is way way way too low. Last time I checked there was one Dusk. ONE Dusk for the entire game population???? Sure there’ll be more eventually but the fact that there’s so few of them at any given time makes me think there is a problem. If they’re appearing at such a slow pace what are the odds that everyone going after it will get a chance to obtain it?

I don’t know how fast they’re appearing but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was only 1 per day now. If only 1000 people want to craft Twilight, that means It’s going to take almost 3 years for the supply to reach the demand. That’s just completely insane.

It’s not the price it’s the exclusivity. I don’t care about the money you made, what I do care about is that people like you can have a legendary because you amde the money so fast and the rest of us need to fall into a potentially infinite line because the supply is lacking BECAUSE of an insanely low RNG.

To put it in one single sentence: I want crafting a legendary to be PvE NOT economy PvP.

You get a skill point everytime you level up, even after 80 you’re still technically getting xp and a skillpoint for everytime you would have gotten a new level.

Think of it this way: Once you finish it, you will never need another upgrade.

Yes, the extremely low chances involved are exactly what the problem is, that’s why I’m saying it should be changed.

Judging by how fast I’m selling Carrion Krait Slayers (cheapest to craft 80 rare greatsword) I would say there’s a plenty of people trying already, most of them in futile attempts.

I get it, you think the market will balance itself and maybe it will but I’m not so sure. Just looking at real life you can see how badly the economy can go (I don’t see the large supply of food in developed nations reaching the demand of starving third world countries, probably because someone is making a killing off of it).

And the mmo economy is even easier to manipulate, inflate and completely ruin. It’s happened before, what makes you so sure it won’t happen again? What’s so ideal about GW2’s economy that makes it safe from from exploit and imbalance?

@ Lackofcheese

The fact that like you said the supply of precursors comes potentially from every player in the world is exactly what worries me. How can there be only 4 dusks on the global TP then? There are precursors that I haven’t seen on the TP in forever.

This means that:

a) Only a negligable portion of the population is making a profit off of them.
b) Only a negligable portion of the population is getting supplied by a precursor.

Anet are clearly advertising the legendaries as a major endgame PvE feature but right now such an insignificant portion of people have access to it you’d think it wasn’t even in the game.

I could be wrong of course and there will be a lot more of them popping up soon but right now I have reason to be concerned. There seems to be a lot of people going at it at the mystic forge right now and all I’m hearing are negative results. Has there even been a confirmed precursor created since the godskull hotfix?

It’s not about the current price. It’s about the instability of the price. If the current price is 300 gold that’s fine. I just want to know that by the time I farm up 300 gold, the price will still be 300 gold.

What happens if it’s 500 gold at that point? I can farm up another 200 gold but by that time the price can jump again. For me, the point of farming is to get closer and closer to my goal. Right now it feels like I’m getting further away from my goal everytime I check the TP.

lackofcheese.5617:

If the price rises enough that it becomes highly profitable to make them on the Mystic Forge, the supply will increase considerably.

Only if you can throw enough tries into the mystic forge to reach a stable average. Trying to reach an average with such a low drop rate is incredibly hard since it needs a bigger sample size. If you don’t have the money to do enough tries to get an average of at least 10 prerequisites (which is huge) then you’re still just gambling and that can turn unprofitable fast.

The prices for the prerequisites are hardly stable when there’s so few on the market. There are four Dusks on the global TP ranging from 250 to 300 gold.

Now we can assume that there are way more than 4 people currently farming to get one. So what happens when a much larger number of people farms up this much gold? Let’s say in a month there will be 50 people who want Dusk and have that kind of gold.

The only way for the price to remain stable is if by that time there are also around 50 Dusks on the TP. And what happens if there aren’t? The demand will once again far outnumber the supply which means that anyone selling it will have no problem raising the price significantly, after all he only needs one guy out of those 50 people to have 500 gold instead of just 300.

I wonder what’s gonna happen once everyone decides that obtaining a prerequisite from the MF is no longer worth it and they should just buy it from the TP.

I guess we’ll be fresh out of prerequisites from the TP. Then it’s on to the slot machines and hope for a jackpot. I mean sure, statistically speaking if you keep throwing money in you should eventually get one. I guess that’s what the people in Vegas keep telling themselves. But statistics with such low RNG doesn’t really help you much since it only gives you an average.

Let’s say that statistically speaking you get a prerequisite every 500 tries on average. However, since the RNG is so insanely low you need a much much higher sample size in order to reach this average.

If we take a sample size of ten players each doing 500 tries we can get a better sample size to reach that average but that doesn’t mean the prerequisites will spread evenly among you. 10 players with 500 tries each means 5000 tries which will probably yield 10 prerequisites but they probably won’t spread evenly. Instead 5 players get nothing, 3 of them get 1, 1 player gets 2 and the last guy gets 4 of them.

This is only one possibility on how the average with such low RNG spreads out. It is far more indicative of people’s luck rather then their commitement. Those 5 players who got nothing could potentially be ONE unlucky player spending over 1000 gold for 2500 tries and still get nothing in return.

If you ask me, that’s completely insane. Smaller luck based mats like mystic clovers are ok because you can do it enough times to average it out. The prerequisite is just too extreme. It can potentially ensure that some people NEVER get a legendary not matter how commited they are.

Anet making so many awesome professions and races is a conspiracy to get you to buy more gems for character slots of course! They’re even teasing us with the subraces. All they need to do now is release Kodan/Tengu/Skritt expansions and watch as their money bags fill up. Anet has always been one of those shady business companies that charge you for quality content.

It’s hard to say what the actual worth of the prerequisites are since the production cost to obtain them can be either 2 gold or hundreds of gold.

That said, since there only seemed to be 2 or 3 of a certain prerequisite on the TP at any given time it is very much susceptible to market manipulation. Even if it’s still only reaching the normal price, there’s nothing to stop the super wealthy from buying them up and putting them up for even higher prices.

I disagree. The full combination of mats for the legendary already makes them extremely rare, since not everyone is willing to take the time to make them.

They are GW1’s equivalent of FOW armor. That armor required incredible amounts of farming and as far as I know remained extremely rare at least for the major part of GW1’s lifetime. A lot of prestige came with wearing it as well, people were respected for having it and it didn’t require any crazy RNG of such insane proportions.

As far as I can tell, the legendaries are a lot harder to acquire than FOW armor even without factoring in the prerequisite’s RNG. If you want to make legendaries more rare make them take longer to acquire instead, the current system makes it that some people will have to spend literally 100 times more time than others.

Just to repeat myself: I’m fine with paying 300 for the prerequisite or even 400 AS LONG AS it stays 400 and doesn’t change after the several months it will take me to farm that amount of gold.

“Lets put down everything that we didn’t like, and how we believe they could be fixed.”

That was a royal “we” right?

Why do people keep throwing the phrase self entitlement around? Let’s try another phrase: elitism.

Apparently some people have this idea that not everyone should have the possibility to obtain a legendary at all. Because this is what’s happening right now. Either you’re the luckiest or the richest and if you’re not you can kiss goodbye any hopes of ever getting a legendary.

The exotic prerequisites are so rare that legendaries are no longer PvE content, they have effectively become economy PvP. I’m literally competing against every other player who wants one and loosing against everyone who can afford to pay more.

All I want is to get my legendary eventually after a lot of hard work. That’s what they should be, a longterm goal that you slowly approach. However because of the curent state of prerequisites, that goal is moving further and further away no matter how much I farm and that to me doesn’t seem okay.

@Fildydarie

Dude, what the hell? You don’t just get to make stuff up. That is NOT exactly it and I NEVER said I wanted a legendary in 42 days. If you read my previous posts you can see I don’t expect to have a legendary anytime soon and I’m completely fine with that.

So to reiterate: NO I don’t think I should have one already or anytime soon for that matter. That settled? Good.

Now the reason I’m perfectly fine with Ecto RNG or Mystic Clover RNG is because those RNGs aren’t so low as to create a large differences between player luck. Anyone who salvages for ectos regularly will eventually fall into a statistical success average.

The prerequisite RNG however is a huge problem becase it’s so low and because most players only need one successful roll. That creates a huge amount of difference between the needed amount of time and effort from players based completely on luck.

You can’t rely on a statistical average with such low numbers. It’s all just luck based. With the current system some people will spend 3 gold and others will spend 500 gold. That is in no way a reasonable system.

RNG is fair yes.

However I don’t want just a fair chance. That’s not good enough. I’m willing to put all the effort it takes, however with the unstable pricing of the prerequisites all my efforts could be in vain and that’s not acceptable.

What kind of a messed up system do we have if people spend hundreds of hours of farming and then we’re told that some of us get to have legendaries and some of us just won’t be so lucky.

There’s different kinds of fairness, I want a fairness where people get awarded according to their work not according to their luck.

P.S.
Please stop saying that we just need to work hard for it. That isn’t the issue, no one here said they want an easy legendary we just want it to be a stable and tangible goal.

This sounds like something Anet will likely fix in the future and force us to fight the mobs.

And I can already see the speedrunners are gonna be hatin’ just like when CoF 2 was buffed even though it was completely justified.

Man, am I happy I decided on carrion gear. Ancient bones are like 20 copper. Probably because the Risen in Orr drop them

And yes, Ruby orbs are like 14s compared to other orbs that are like 3s. I was actually really surprised. I knew berserker gear was popular but from these prices it seems that almost every player is going for it.

Hasek.6807:

Supply wont stabilize the price. the price for achieving/crafting one will.

So I am no math genius but currently lvl 75 rare greatswords are 20-22s with a need of 4 pr craft and a speculated drop chance of 0,2% (No official word that magic find helps – But mmo superstition forces me to blow this out of proportion aswell and get everything)

2000 rare greatswords (0,2% chance*500 tries =100% chance – this is incorrect but the closest i could get over my napkin maths) equals to a price of around 400g as the top market value for this item!

400g…

400g…

10g for 50 euros… Only 2000 euros for a pixel sword… Bargain I say!

This needs to be fixed and set into proportion with other hard to get exotics!

The worst part of this is that even though statistically speaking you should get one after 500 tries, statistics doesn’t mean guarantee.

Five people could be spending 400g each and still not get anything in return just because they were unlucky. On the other hand a really lucky person will get 5 of them in those 500 attempts and be set for life.

It just goes to show how broken the kitten thing really is.

Well it’s going to be a real kitten to stabilize that price when there are only 1 or 2 available at any given time. It’s way too easy to monopolize that kind of market and put up the maximum possible price.

At this rate of them appearing I doubt the Demand for them will cap anytime soon and probably at a completely stupid high number.

My fear is that because of my slow ingame income (I suck at farming ok? I never even reach the DR.) I’ll be forced to do 10x the effort of those that did it fast and early. That is not my idea of stabilization.

DeathTouch, I’m perfectly fine with paying the fair price of 200 gold, even though the people who got them early would pay as little as 60 gold.

What’s so unfair about wanting the price to remain stable? Why should I be punished with 10 times higher prices just because I’m taking my time.

I want the legendary to be my endgame, something I accomplish after long long months of persistent play. I just want that goal to be set so I can see myself progress towards it instead of watching the end getting farther and farther away.

I’ll always defend having to work hard for your accomplishment but I won’t defend exclusivity for the tiniest amounts of people at the top.

Edit: I just checked the TP and Dusk is now going for 299 gold. Will it be 400 tomorrow? So where’s that fair price of 200 gold we were talking about? This is exactly what I’m talking about. The price just rose by another 100 gold, apparently at the whim of a single person.

The average will be much higher for anyone who’s not that lucky. So who’s willing to risk 400+ gold on the off chance of gaining notihng in return? If very few people actually attempt to do it, because of the unreliable chance for profit, there won’t really be that many of them around, hence the market will be cornered and the prices will soar far above their statistical value since the statistics are so unreliable.

But yes, at the end of the day, just increasing the drop chance to something that can be realistically attempted would effectively stabilize the price and solve the whole problem.

Belmont.4682:

Archer.6485:

Personally I don’t care if people get super rich from luck, hell I don’t even care that much if it’s exploits as long as it doesn’t completely destroy the economy.

I only care if a certain aspect of PvE is locked out from me for years because i’m not and never will be among the 1% richest players. That’s exactly what I hoped to get away from when I started playing GW2.

The rich players will be able to make the legendary 10 times faster than I do. By the time I make one nobody will even care, I just want it for my personal sense of achievement.

And now you’re telling me I don’t get to have it because I’m trying to obtain it at my own pace? And you’re calling me entitled?

The line between having or not having the legendary should be whether you’re willing to put in the time and effort not whether or not you’re among the richest players in the world.

I do agree with you except by the part of “when i make mine no one will GaF about it” i loved the skin, i dont care if people will look at me and say “wow, you got yours NOW? srsly”, i want to log into my account just to see that freaking awesome sword in my back, i will never do a single normal step again, i want to move in the word just by spamming my 3rd greatsword skill (the warrior one, forgot the name) just to see the AMAZING effect it produces in the skill.

To me (and i guess for a lot of people here), your last sentence would be changed to "The line between having or not having the legendary should be whether you’re willing to put in the time and effort not whether or not you’re among the luckiest players in the world. "

Anet, would be too mach to ask you to AT LEAST bring this issue/suggestion to your tables?

Ye that’s pretty much my sentiment because ultimately I only want it for myself and the joy of having the awesome skin. And it’s really depressing to think I might never be able to get it because I’m being blocked from obtaining the final piece because of the elite driven economy.

lackofcheese.5617:

Cornering the market isn’t really possible when the mystic forge is still here and remains capable of spitting out legendary precursors.

And yet, that’s exactly what’s happening right now. Sure there’ll be more of them eventually, but they seem to be coming out at a far too slow rate. Has at least a hundred Dusks dropped so far? Good news for a hundred players. How long untill there’s a thousand? Still doesn’t help me because I’m not among the best and richest 1000 players.

I’m not even close to the richest 1% and in a 2 million playerbase that’s 20000 players.

So what happens to the guy that wants to make Twilight but there are a 100000 players who want it as well and are way richer than that guy? He’s going to have to wait for over 100000 Dusks to drop and be posted on the TP, that may as well take forever.

Or he can try his own luck with the mystic forge, which considering the current drop rate will probably take forever as well.

How can everyone complain about the DR being completely broken and overtuned but can’t accept the same reasoning for an overtuned RNG.

Personally I don’t care if people get super rich from luck, hell I don’t even care that much if it’s exploits as long as it doesn’t completely destroy the economy.

I only care if a certain aspect of PvE is locked out from me for years because i’m not and never will be among the 1% richest players. That’s exactly what I hoped to get away from when I started playing GW2.

The rich players will be able to make the legendary 10 times faster than I do. By the time I make one nobody will even care, I just want it for my personal sense of achievement.

And now you’re telling me I don’t get to have it because I’m trying to obtain it at my own pace? And you’re calling me entitled?

The line between having or not having the legendary should be whether you’re willing to put in the time and effort not whether or not you’re among the richest players in the world.

Call it entitlement but I kinda feel like if I play the game regularly for months on end, I should be able to obtain the legendary. Even if it’s for an entire year.

Isn’t that enough commitment? So I really also need to be the TP genious? Do I really need to put my life on hold and rush getting large amounts of gold before the prices skyrocket again and get out of my reach?

That’s like classic gear grind all over again. No matter how much gold I make, the other players will always be ahead of me so all my effort will never be enough.

Commitment I understand, but being forced to constantly compete with the wealth of other players is not my idea of fun. Richer and smarter players should obviously be able to obtain the legendary much faster than I do, but for me to be actively denied the legendary because there can never be enough of them in game seems completely unfair.

My effort in PvE should be measured by the game’s standards not by other players’

Like Makediktus said, even if the price eventually stabilizes, it’s going to be completely out of proportion.

My previous estimation was to obtain a legendary somewhere within 6 months, if Dusk reaches 1k gold cost it’ll become closer to 2 years assuming I play every day for several hours (and by play I mean nothing but farm).

It just seems ridiculus that the already daunting legendary recipe would effectively triple in cost because of one crazy low RNG.

The RNG isn’t the problem, the extremely low chance RNG is.

With the tiny amount of prerequisites that are appearing on the TP they appear to be far too rare for any normal player to obtain no matter how long they play.

Let’s say that 5 dusks are sold every day (I doubt that many are). This means that less than 2000 will be sold within one year. I’m guessing there are well over 2000 players who are richer than me and want Dusk for their legendary. So as long as these players can afford to pay more than I can I simply can’t compete with them and won’t be able to obtain that prerequisite even though I suspect I can get every other item for the legendary within that one year.

The prerequisite will esentially become the one wall I can’t cross because there will always be demand for them by richer players and never enough supply for me to get one as well.

Normalizing the event rewards means that there are no events that are trivialised which means you can play any events you want without feeling like you’re missing out on the rewards.

I will say this, the demographic for WoW and GW2 might not be as overlaping as one would think.

GW2 has plenty of things that a lot of players have been asking for, for a long time but that doesn’t mean everyone wanted them. My guess is that GW2 will much like GW1 just be doing it’s own thing and be successful at it no matter what the impact to the overall genre will be.

I definitely agree. It wouldn’t even bother me to pay 250gold for the prerequisite because I know I can farm that up at my own pace. What bothers me is that by the time I get the 250 gold It’ll probably already cost 1000 gold.

This is what happens when there’s only 3 of a valuable item on the global TP. The sellers can make up any price they want and it’s getting stupid. At the very least they should increase the chance of getting the prerequisite, because right now the item is waaaaaaay too exclusive.

Ye I know how you feel :/

Going into dungeons for the first time is a bit of an unpleasant shock, the best advice I can give you is to not give up, once you level up and get more into it, the dungeons get a lot better and more fun.

AC has a lot of problematic ranged trash mobs, try getting as much of anti projectile abilities as possible. If nothing works just come back after you’re a higher level. It’s not perfect but it’ll get the job done.

Waiting for an hour to find a healer who decides to leave after a single wipe is not my idea of PvE enjoyment.

For all the problems the lack of trinity creates, to me it doesn’t even compare to the problems it solves. Anet will get better at making no trinity dungeons but the LF healer/tank woes will never come back.

The legendary prerequisites are far too rare right now imo. If there’s only 2 or 3 available on the global TP, that means that the people who are selling them can literally make up any price they want.

I really think Anet needs to make a specific recipe for them or at least increase their chance to drop.

I remember when being a completionist used to mean something. When people would go above and beyond to get that 100%.

This is like a Pokemon player complaining they don’t want to trade with other people in order to “catch ’em all.”

If you’re not willing to do what it takes to get that 100% map then you don’t deserve to have that star above your name, it’s that simple.

I understand why people don’t like the DR system but we should also agree that it’s not an issue that’s easy to fix.

The fastest way would of course be to shut down the DR system completely, but is that really the smartest choice? The bots are still here but that doesn’t mean they should be allowed to just take over.

Remember how everyone complained that Magg path wasn’t even tested when it was changed? Well what do you expect will happen if Anet just does a random change to the DR system because the community is rushing them? They don’t want to do mistakes on this one so just let them do their thing.

Kennith.8730:

So many unnecessary nerfs to dungeons. Now that all the dungeons are ridiculously easy, what will people do now? Do the same dungeon and complain about how repetitive they are? The challenge was awesome;, especially for the people who are looking for it.

So many you say? Name three.

Two patches ago there was a Cof 2 buff, today we have a CoF 1 nerf. Anet aren’t changing the difficulty, they’re fixing the dungeons that fall out of their projected difficulty line. You can say the CoF 1 boss wasn’t hard for you but you have to admit it was a lot harder than probably all the other dungeon bosses and that just doesn’t fit.

Is there a picture of it with it’s effects working? The only picture I found of it looked like a large cigarette lighter and I’m kinda guessing there should be a blade of fire at the end.

Vzur.7123:

I would comment on this, but it’ll be locked too soon to be worth saying anything.

But it was worth writing that post?

I stopped playing Rift when I realised I was never logging in except for raid times and that really didn’t feel like I was getting my 15 bucks per month worth. Even though I was in a top raiding guild on the server and we were literally a week away from doing a server first on Akylios and i was getting better geared every day I just stopped caring.

A lot of the things that the OP mentions is quite subjective tbh. For example the armor/mob design and the whole look of the game never really appealed to me, in fact I always felt like it was it’s weak point. Only rifts themselves looked kinda cool.

Also, Trion may be popular now but their forum feedback from back then was just as bad as it is here now. Also why is everyone saying Anet is slow at fixing the game? It’s like people forgot all the bugs that have already been fixed. People are acting like there hasn’t been a patch since launch.

Ye, I’m pretty much having the same experience. Even more so when I’m playing with my guildies since we’re getting more in sync.

It’s not surprising really, aside from those few notoriously hard encounters it’s all a matter of getting into the swing of things. My guess is only a few bosses will get nerfed while new content will feature overall harder dungeons or even hard modes of the older ones.

I’m guessing the first new thing in the game is going to be the Halloween event which they’ve been hinting at since before launch.

As for some permanent content I don’t know. They said one form of new content would be extra dynamic events within different zones. Not sure how they’ll advertise that though. “come to queensdale for 3 brand new events” seems a bit funny to me.

I kind of agree, except I’d preffer it if the exotic prerequisite wasn’t RNG and the clovers stayed the same.

It’s not just the high prices of the exotic, it’s the fact that they barely seem to appear on the TP even though it’s global.

I got the right rewards everytime so far except once, my guild members who I ran with weren’t always so lucky though.

It’s a bug, it’ll get fixed.

To the OP:

They actually have been fixing bugs since day one, in fact the first week had a new build pretty much every day. They’re not daily anymore which I’m guess is Anet’s “let’s not kill our staff from overexhaustion” business practice.

And the changes are noticable, they just haven’t fixed everything yet.

I guess different people have different experience.

To me the dungeons are quite fun. To me the dungeons of other mmos are way easier and way more boring than this. At least in GW2 I don’t feel like I’m just running a dps rotation with the occasional gimmick.

I actually use most of my abilities situationally and I don’t get to stand on the same spot for more than a second either.

Some people are saying they’re poorly designed but I just don’t see it. I find them fun and engaging and even though my rewards aren’t bugged I’m definitely not just doing them for the tokens.

Oh come on, most of them aren’t even that hard!

Yes there’s a few crazy difficulty spikes that may need to get nerfed like the path 1 CoF final boss but most dungeons are just fine as long as you know what you’re doing.

Me and my guild cleared 2 CoE paths and all 3 HotW paths in the last two nights. Yes we died a few times but we always got rewarded more than we spent. We weren’t even on vent and we didn’t really have specific strategies. We just learned a few things along the way. What works what doesn’t work, which conditions and boons are useful to apply, that sort of thing.

The HP pools are large but I wouldn’t call them abnormally large. At least not compared to other mmo dungeons I played. The time to run through a dungeon for me and my friends can be from one to two hours. A time we could definitely shorten once we learn to never die or get downed and maintain a constant dps.

No one knows what the expansions will be like, but I’m sure it won’t just be: “one more dungeon with a new elder dragon”

At the very least they’ll add a lot more explorable areas. Whether those areas will be on a different continent I can’t say.