Guild Wars 2

(because I really need to goto sleep, im gonna keep this short, a more extensive response will follow)

@Bruno, you may wanna check that link also, though I will spare you the click, and just quote what it says there, mainly because it’s more prove of my point of view…

The champions also seem to play a role in the awakening of the dragons , Primordus’ awakening having being heralded by the Great Destroyer and delayed by fifty years upon that champions’ defeat. Some comments by the developers have suggested that the dragons use their champions to gather some sort of magical energy for their awakening by assimilating more beings into the dragon armies. it even has a source linked to it.

Which then makes it quite easy to put the order of the orbs lighting up against the order we know the dragons awaken. And conclude that some Champions took longer than others …

I will write some more about what ‘a Dragon Champion’ is, and what a ‘Champion of a Dragon’ is tomorrow, because if I see that list, then some might have been a Champion (in the way the game uses ‘Champion’), but only a couple were actual ‘Dragon Champions’, as in the Chief Commander of the forces of Zhaitan. There may well be Dragons that are quite similar to ‘it’, but they are not in Command. Basically like it says in the bit about the Shatterer. There is only 1 ‘Shatterer’, in command of the corrupted forces that reside in the Brand. But once he is defeated another takes his place. Meaning, there are more Dragons of his size, they are just not in command…

That is also why Glint f/e may be a dragon spawn, and once was a Champion of Kralkatorrik. But once she gained a free will, she was no longer a Champion of Kralkatorrik, she was just a Free Willed Dragonspawn…

B4 we start to get mangled in a 3way discussion, please keep in mind whos responding to whom when

@BrunoBRS, as long as you don’t make a debate personal I don’t really care whether there comes smoke out of your ears and fire out of your eyes when you write your response ^^.

But as far as Glint goes, she has long been detached from Kralkatorrik, for over those 10.000y. In fact the whole lore around Glint starts with the elder races freeing her from Kralkatorrik’s grasp. I mean, don’t get me wrong here, but using her as any excuse for anything related to the Dragons now, apart from the vengeance of Kralkatorrik upon his awakening, is pretty much moot (to use one of your words).

By now I would also like to see some sources for where you draw all these ‘facts’, because as you point at me saying I ignore lore, but so far you bring up new stuff as you go and fail to produce any source for your claims. More Zhaitan Champs? I am not sure of you talk about http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cobiah_Marriner ‘The Maw’ which by all means is described as an undead deep sea fish, while large and named, there is nothing to suggest he was an actual Champ, sounds more like a luitanant or simply a boss size creature.

The Shatterer a byproduct of the brand? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Shatterer I read no such suggestion. Only that if a dragon champ dies another takes his place, and that there can be only one… Which btw. disproves that there are more Champions of Dragons around.

So really, unless you provide actual sources for your claims, which you use to ‘disprove’ my theory, I’m going to say that your claims prove nothing, and in the least that my theory might be wrong. Get your facts straight, and preferably sourced, and we can talk
some more…

ps. if you quote somebody, but don’t actually use the quote, please just use an @name to make clear whom you are responding too and do not quote. If you only use a small portion, plz delete and snip the rest. Quoting these large bits of text is really annoying for anyone wanting to follow a discussion, esp. so if the text is right there only 2 or 3 posts above a reaction. This is a mere friendly request

I did a ‘full’ (well extensive anyways) analysis of this effect, which takes place in various sections of the Timberline Falls map (some sections strangely enough are unaffected). You can find that here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Weird-GFX-degeneration-Concordia-Instance/first#content

@Versidia, while the focus is on the way’points’ now, a stronger way to transport that is used for way longer than the actual waypoint, are the Gates. Even though Azura say (claim) these are Azura portals, and yes they might have build the ‘newer’ ones. When these were introduced in EotN I personally became under the impression that the whole system predated the Azura (or at least the Azuran technological advance).

Still though, seeing these are way heavier portals than the waypoints (possibly earlier versions), it would make sense that these would be way more dependent on the Ley Lines. So linking some of them ‘together’ might reveal some more lines… In this respect I found it interesting to see that various cities are placed roughly ’on the same longitude. Actually, if you draw a line from Rata Sum, Through the Grove, all the way to the other end, you roughly end up at Rata Pten, where there is a broken down portal…

Other cities, like ‘LA, Hoelbrak, Rin/Black Citadel’ are also roughly on ‘one line’…

@Mad Queen, yes I agree with you in a sense, I mean, quite obviously the waypoints are placed for ‘our’ convenience. And much like this theory ‘on earth’, they might well be everywhere. although we do not know if these leylines are more like a root system, or a fungal growth pattern, or a geometric placement….

We also do not know how close a Waypoint has to be to a Ley Line for the waypoint to function (enough to let us use them). But, now that ANet made the choice to add these in, as a way to explain certain in game features. I would venture a guess they took some time to have it all make at least some sense, which in turn makes finding them a valid thing to do. (if only to see if they did halve a decent job ).

So far I am impressed, would be interesting to see an actual map. Quite possibly we can deduct some more of the really strong ones and add it to the archives

@versidia yes that is the one

But, based upon your prior work I do think there is a mistake on how the dots are connected. I think there may be 3 branches… why?

Well at the location where the split is now a ‘straight line’ doesn’t make sense. YET! if you take a straight line through the direction of the south heading vines, and draw it up. You pass through (intersect with the other line) … edit never mind, I mistaken the march (for a moment I thought it was the temple of ages) …It intersects somewhere in between Nebo terrace and the Ascalon Settlement.

Then there the other one is quite obvious, from dry top going East/North-East. Then at the most northern point it ‘bends’ South-ish again. So there may be another intersection right there…. OMG !!! Low and behold !!! OMG … it is the location of ‘The central transfer Chamber’ … whaaaa ! :O … :O

edit, addition But my earlier mistake might have proven my earlier hunch, if the dots are connected wrongly, then the current branch off might be along a southern heading Ley Line, that ley line, if continued in a northern direction would then indeed go underneath The temple of Ages…

@BrunoBRS, apparently you didn’t quite follow my post of the order in which dragons awoke, and then looked at who did what, when… The brand, that is kralkatorriks doing, I fully agree. And I also agree that kralkatorrik as the major dragon awoke after Zhaitan (atleast, I take your word for it )… but, if the order of awakening is the same as with Primordus. And there is reason to believe it did… then based upon the orbs order of glowing, we can deduct that ‘the Shatterer’ awoke b4 ‘Tequatl’ did.

And seeing the Shatterer is a flying entity, we have NO evidence to say he did or did not come from someplace else, that we have no idea of, and no sources for… Now why did Teq. manage to awaken Zhaitan b4 the Shatterer managed to Awaken Kralkatorrik. Again we don’t know, we have no information that tells us ‘why’ the champs awake b4 their masters. But we do (at least in one instance, and based upon the order of the orbs glowing, and the possible relation with the 4th orb and Mordi, we might deduct from that a similar awakening order) have sources that tell us that it IS the likely order of the awakening process. And defeating a Champ CAN postpone the awakening of the Dragon himself.

And when viewed from this angle, the whole thing makes sense! The order of the ‘glowing’ of the orbs only has to do with the ‘stirring’ of the powers of these Dragons (not them awakening), and the order of Awakening is determined by the actions of the Champ!

I do not have to go to a stretch, as this is based upon the whole plot line of EotN, and it also explains perfectly why the purple sphere lights up b4 the grey one, while at the same time then hint at the likely reason why it was still Zhaitan that awoke b4 Kralkatorrik did. And more over, it also explains and supports, why it is Mordi’s orb to start glowing as forth, but is only now awakening (due to the actions of Scarlet I might add).

And as this all lines up, and is supported by the whole EotN chapter (and arguably by the awakening of all the dragons as we know by sources and as we relay these to the orb’s orders) all I have to do is (for the time being) is put aside the link my character makes with what the orbs represent.

In a sense I would even go as far as to argue that the vision we see now, could have been seen prior to all of the other Dragons awakening, only then with ‘them’ hitting the center. But seeing we do not yet know what the ‘hitting the center’ actually means, I will put that ‘on hold’ for now.

I hope the actual order in which I meant events to unfold is now more clear to you, it even takes your statement about kralkatorrik into consideration and explains exactly why the order of the orbs lighting up, is different from the order the Dragons wake up.

Without any doubt Queen Jenna has this whole ‘StarWars’ thing going on with her. Leader of the ‘Rebellion’, Actively replaced by a ‘Decoy’. And at the same time ‘mental bond’ and the relation with Logan makes him ‘beyond a doubt’, at least a Jedi (but possibly even Jenna’s Brother? – depending on the StarWars sequence of your preference). So, that can only mean that not before long we will see the Corrupted Ghost of Gwen, with a hissing voice ‘Logan I am your Great-Grand-Ma, pschhhh, give up your resistance and join Kralkatorrik’s forces, pschhhhh, and together WE will rule Tyria… … pscchhhhh’ …

@Konig, part of the discussion is an answer to Avariz, I sort of figured this would cause confusion as to what I want to talk about (and find out) .. sigh, part of me feels like I should just copy/paste the viable parts into a new thread :/ … anyways, the first 2 and the last 2 are what I am after, the rest might well be ignored…

In regards to Rata Pten, I only found that tit bit on the wiki as well, but that conclusion is drawn based on the artifacts found there by a character in game, that quite possibly doesn’t know about the bloodstone caves being behind there. Now sure, we can not go to GW1 and see these respected sides of the mountain-range (mount maelstrom, and straight of devastation). But the inserted door in the lil cave, and Rata Pten itself sure look a lot newer than anything that was sealing that place in GW1. There is even an Azuran portal in Rata Pten, very unlikely it was there prior to EotN, esp. if it’s azuran build and the door in the lil cave (in Devastation) is also of Azuran make…

But anyways, if you say there are no other sources for this area but the one in the priory saying stuff about the artefacts there, then that won’t bring me any further. At least the stone is still there ^^. All to do now is wait where the vines head, and the story goes I guess… tnx for your time, sorry bout the mess in between…

Combined with the previous visits i think ‘the clouds’ might be the what is causing the effect. While i have no clue on the inner workings of your cloud generation in the skybox, i do suspect that (a) or certain clouds have their Z axis not (or wrongly) set. This causes a filter to be applied to various sections of the map, which appears as a blur effect. (in essence it is ‘mist’ hanging over the section).

I think so because:
- The effect doesn’t take place during the night (different skybox most likely)
- The effect doesn’t take place during the morning, nor the evening. (so only during most of midday)
-The effect takes place in several sections of the map at the same time (and not also at these same times)
Thus, it is something that is time related, during the day, and all i could think off was ‘the clouds’

Hope this is indeed the case, and that its an easy fix or swap with a different skybox.

If not, then at least I hope my research will point you in the right direction of finding this ‘bugger’ .. goodluck !

I am leaning towards Manasa’s view too, in fact part of what I have been saying in regards to the order of the orbs glowing up, that this might be a cue for the champions to start doing their thing, for the Pale tree it might have been the first batch of ‘fruit’. While for Kralki it was the awakening of the Shatterer, who then flew where ever (out of sight) to do his thing. And so on, and w/e it is these champs need to do for their master is somehow completed by Tequatl first, as his orbs lights up last, but he is awakens b4 Kralkatorrik, even though Kralkatorrik orb lights up b4 his. And we see this delay with Primordus too, but then it’s our doing…

So perhaps if ‘we’ (someone) can place the first batch of the pale tree, somewhere after the awakening of Jormag, but b4 the awakening of Zhaitan. With kralki somewhere in there as well (because I am not entirely sure when he did awake from what we knew b4 this vision), then perhaps this gets more merit.

Also finding the other Tree might help, they didn’t have a dream, is it now a dragon minion infestation? I would obviously have fruited later, somewhere after it turned out that the ‘first batch’ of Fruit from the pale tree turned out to be ‘good’ instead of Mordremoth’s. And in this sense, it might have still been Scarlet who interacted as a ‘Champ’ by jolting up Mordremoth through her lions arch event. If that was what she intended to do, and it wasn’t some malfunction and feedback instead. Because he might not have been ready, or rather, his real Champ might not have…

(and if the order of business is making the boss his ‘morning’ coffee, then Mordi just woke up with a real bad temper, and also somewhat in a rush)

In which case I would like to point out that the story journal is written from the perspective of the Character, or rather, what Anet thinks your character thinks based upon what has transpired. And I do not need Anet to think for me, I can think for myself … aka. the story characters might find out it’s something completely different in LS2-part3.

Taimy: ‘Well now that I have seen the vision myself I don’t think the orbs are the dragons’
all: ‘What NO!, Taimy! We… grbml!
Taimy: ’Cool down, can’t you see I’m fine, besides, the boss was ok, so why shouldn’t I be’
we: ‘ok then, spill it out, what do you think?’
Taimy: ‘I think these orbs, represent the colors of Disco… and Mordremoth is telling us it’s time to /dance
Taimy: DANCE YOU FOOLS! While vines sprout from Taimy’s hips, wrap around her legs, and she rises in the air and Manically laughs "I Wont need Scrubby anymore!! Mhuahahahaha… Now didn’t I tell you to DANCE !!!

Obviously with some artistic freedom at the end there, but you get my gist, I am sure… At which point your story journal will tell you the orbs are actually colored disco balls, and Mordremoth is the lord of the dance!

@BrunoBRS, ill write this down one last time… unless, the orbs are not the dragons but the time their respected Champions awoke, just like how ‘we’ as players postpone the rise of Primordus by Killing it’s Champion. And we do not know why exactly these champions arise first, and why they seem to some power to corrupt.

So, if the order each orb lights up is correct, and corresponds with some ‘domain’ of magic being activated, which in turn wakes up a Champion, who then starts to amass an army (which we do know is used to collect magic → so it may be assumed their job is to collect enough magic in one place to awaken a Dragon by stirring his appetite) … THEN, it is quite possible that Zhaitans Champ was the last to awake, but among one of the first to actually complete his mission and thus give his master a head start…

Now if we look at the events surrounding scarlet, then in essence it is safe to say that Mordremoth too is awoken by a jolt (feedback) of energy, coming from a ley line he fell asleep on. His Champion (who/what) ever that is (it may have even been scarlet, in a sense), apparently took a rather long time to wake him up. If that champ was intended to be the Pale Tree, then it apparently got a case of ‘The Glint’ in some way or fashion. And it would explain why their powers are so similar…

Now seeing that there is (/are) other pale tree(s), at least one, it would be interesting to see what is going on there. They mentioned nothing about the dream, so the birth of the Pale tree (or rather the first time it fruited), might have been the time code for of that forth jolt, that supposedly represents Mordremoth. It just took Mordremoth (aka. his champ, which might have been that second tree) a really long time to both produce fruit, and have it gather magic… Actually, if Scarlet hadn’t intervened he might not have woken up for quite some time…

Well you could try by finding that picture about the route of the vines. It wouldn’t be to much of a surprize if these would follow ‘a’ (or more) ley lines, from the ley line hub in dry top to ‘where ever’ they end up? Or at least partially?

Is there anyone in the lore community that happens to have a great interest in the Azuran lore? Is there anything left about the work in Pten ‘after’ Gadd (may the Eternal alchemy have merci on his soul). Perhaps his son carried on his work?

Back to the topic then…

I did some more research around the bloodstone caves. And by the looks of it the Bloodstone became ‘some sort’ of holy place for the Azura. They even tried to build a city (?) there Rata Pten, which was apparently important enough to have it’s own gate. (which now lies in ruins, must as the city, which seems to extend all the way to the top of the mountain. Pten is described ‘to hold’ artefacts dating back to the time of Orr, but from GW1 we know that that site itself can’t be that old, so the Azura of say 200y ago must have dragged some of those Artefacts there. More then likely they were somehow related to the bloodstones (or depicted them) and were studied to (well what else would Azura do) understand the power of that particular bloodstone.

It’s also noteworthy that not far from it (to the south) there is one of the only ‘of recent’ Ghosts that I have seen in the game. she explains she got killed when the Risen swarmed the marches leading towards Rata Pten. In a heart event you help cull the numbers in the swamp to avert catastrophe. The whole area looks a lot like it the top of a caved in cave system and seeing the old entrance is caved in too, it must have diverted waterflow, the area is now a march…

Checking the area from the Straights of Devastation, reveals an affected stream with coloured water that (if you played GW1) will look really familiar (I even went so far to look at other waterfalls in the larger area around, non had this peculiar colour). Likely the diverted waterflow due to partial or whole cave in of the system now pushes water past the bloodstone and flows out. close to Brambles pass. Not much further on ‘Brambles pass’ there is a ‘hidden’ entrance in a cave wall, that leads to a small cave with a big fat Azura door. It may be noteworthy that I met an NPC there that explained to me that the risen were coming from all sides ‘trying to break the alliance’, basically distracting the player with the current point of view and pressing issues of ‘the now’, from the historic importance of that site.

So, I would like to conclude that the bloodstone is still there, it might even be moved by the Azura at some point. Unfortunatly I not so much of a dungeon runner … the Arah dungeon might have enlightened a lot for me in this regard. But it was nice to read that at least someone, even though it was an NPC (that is now running around convinced he will ‘refind’ the human gods cough), that also thinks the Bloodstones are of great interest to the Dragons… or at least to Zhaitan in the Dungeon instance (given, I did not read the whole dungeon description, sort of didn’t want to spoil everything for myself, seeing that ‘now’ this dungeon moved up considerably on my priority list) …

Research around Mount Mailstom will have to wait until a later date, but it might be noteworthy to mention that my conclusion is that the bloodstone is still there, and that Primordus ‘thus’ did not yet breach the area and took it away. (well unless the magic of it seeped into the surrounding area, and this is why we see these effects (water & ghost). In the time when he awoke…

@Avariz … Ok, well nice theory, but I hope you do not find it rude if I were to ask you to make your own thread, and discuss all about it there, perhaps also put some more argumentation behind your theory. But I intended to talk about the Bloodstones and their relation with the things unfolding in LS2. And, you are sort of hijacking my thread with your own, totally unrelated to the OPs angle, theory. At least, from my point of view it looks a lot like that… Not that I’m not interested in it, I would personally love to know where you draw the conclusion that the last bloodstone is in the Chystal Desert, and that the keystone is in the center… but, I rather not do that in this thread…

The undead horses have been around long b4 these dragons awoke, which tells me personally, they will be around long after the dragons have been defeated… and so will mount threads

Whow there Aline, this isn’t a thread about mounts… it’s a thread that ask people to stop making threads about mounts. Or simply said, do not talk about mounts anymore because OP don’t want them-‘thread’ … and I just voiced my opinion in regards to certain human rights relating to ‘this’ topic.

Where I stand people may say all things about everything, what they want, what they do not want. But asking people to no longer voice their opinion is to ask people to lay their rights besides them, and that is a route we shouldn’t go down…

This is basically the whole RPG romantic view ’It’s all about the journey, not the destination’ (on which some of the most epic RPG books and Movies are based).

Meets the Instant Gratification Gamer of today ’It’s all about how much gold I can manage to squeeze in my playtime, the sooner I get to my destination the better’.

I wonder if these latter people also put in the LotR movies, skip the movie to the last 15 min for the end battle, then start to munch on a bucket of popcorn. And call it done for ‘movie night’ when the end battle and popcorn are finished ?!?

It’s alright though, it is what it is…

The first step towards dictatorship and the end of the freedom of expression is to tell people to no longer voice their opinion … as you have the right to voice your opinion against mounts, so do those that are for them. If you can’t deal with one of these simple actually mostly globally accepted HUMAN rights. Then perhaps moving to a place where these basic rights are not honoured is the right thing for you … do realize though that in a video game you are bound to run into freedom of speech issues, so perhaps those are simply ‘forbidden’ … do have fun!

@ all the ‘beating a dead horse’ posters … have you ever considered that the only horses on Tyria are actually ‘undead horses’ … maybe that is why telling people to stop beating a dead horse doesn’t work, beating an undead horse would just mean it starts to run faster …

Seeing this has gravitated to ‘whos death overall’ was most impactful… For me it was the death on the Island fight with Zaithan’s boat forces attacking. Now I have a horrible memory for names, but I do remember that I hadn’t slept much in the days that I played it, it was also rather late, and I may have been yawning at the moment… But yeah, that moment hit me rather hard…

Jski.6180:

Ronin.7381:

Jski.6180:

So maybe we are mixing things up if the rotating is them being awalk then why would smashing into the world be them awaking agen? I belive the full green is zhaitan and his smashing into the center orb is representative of his death the gray green must be morde becoming full active. I think what happning is zhaitan power is or has become one with the pail tree or terya (not sure how you spell it.)

Zhaitan isn’t falling into the center. Look at the scene. The dark green globe falls in, it spreads, we zoom in towards it like it’s the eye of Sauran spotting us, and then you hear the same rumble of a growl we heard during the conclusion of Season 1. The globe that fell in the center is Mord – Zhaitan’s globe remains “inactive” on the outside because we put him back to sleep while the others wait their turn.

To me them not moving means they are asleep once a small beam of light that comes from the center the start to move that is them awakening why would smashing into the center and exploding be another awaking? Though i could be wrong there more to the orbs then just the dragons though the dragons are part of the orbs there just seems to be more being said there that we do not simply have the full story.

Because of the process involved when a dragon awakens. We have seen this with Primordus basically:

1. First the Champion of the dragon awakens.
2. This Champion has some minor power to corrupt.
3. This Champion uses these forces … (likely to clear the path, and to collect some magical artifacts, so ‘The Dragon’ can have his morning coffee, likely with a bit of sugar).
4. The Dragon Awakens from slumber, and kittens start hitting the fan…

So, the light coming from the center to awaken the Dragons, can mean, ok this is the Cue for the Champion to Awaken (most of them are also in slumber like their boss, f/e see Drakkar in Drakkar lake (Champ of Jormag). This process sort of follows rather fast after eachother, all ‘the forces’ represented by the Champs and ‘a minor’ corrupted force start to prepare for their master (the orbs are now all swinging around). Now say ‘if X amount of magical artefact are ground up and the brew is producing it’s aroma, the Champ awakens the Dragon whom now knows his coffee is ready’ … NOW (well obviously after the Dragon finishes his coffee, with an episode of ‘Tyrian Daily’, just to catch up on events of the day) The Kitten hits the fan, the orb hits the Center, ‘Bingo’ the Dragon Awakens with all its might, power and roar. His/Her army grows, his/her influence stretches, Magic is consumed by the masses, the end is neigh!!

Orrrrr…

The light emanating means all the Dragons awake (forget the above), all the dragons are flying around doing their thing. Omnomnomagic… Cue the heroes, they struggle, they learn, they fight, BOOM! Dragon is dead ! … All the consumed magic of ages, still lingering in his body is released at once, and like any living thing his ‘life energy and magic’ is returned to the Mists, to be used to create new life… But no system is prepared for such an amount of raw dragon magic, instead, the magic takes over, the dragon lives, although be it from some sort of ‘afterlife’…
Aka. the tree of life, and the circle of life/magic, is flushed by the magic released from Zaithans death…

Either way, Duck! for kitten chunks are the flying around…

@Avariz , while interesting, I do not see what it has to do with the relation Dragons <→ Bloodstones … and most I read is your own interpretation of what the bloodstones were, neglecting that ‘lore’ states they were created by the Gods to restrict magic on Tyria per request by King Doric…

As far as my speculation of the "Gods’ goes, and their arrival on Tyria: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/s2/7-gods-6-dragons-and-tyria/first#post4216121

And from the same thread, likely just as interesting, only then in relation to the realm of torment, and it’s resemblance with ‘the vision’: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/s2/7-gods-6-dragons-and-tyria/first#post4216121 also read the post below it, as it contains some further information.

As far as the temple goes, it acts as a gateway to the heart of the realm, which in essence means it leads to the center of the picture, in it are situated (the actual prison of Abaddon), and more importantly, the Realm of Anguish, which in turn is a piece of the ‘physical world’, more specifically a piece of the realm of Abaddon, his followers are cast into this place.

As you can read in the links above here, the gods likely used the ‘format of reality’ when they created the Realm of Torment, so that it could stand the test of time. Seeing that the bloodstone(s) were created and were broken and cast into Abaddon’s Mouth, at roughly the same time that the realm of torment was created. I see no reason as to why these would not be related in some fashion.

As far as it all being part of the mists, is also quite correct, in fact, how the mists is described it is actually something that encompasses everything and everywhen. Were the gods to create the Realm of Torment, the only place to create it would be in the mists. If mankind were to come to Tyria, the only place they could have come from is somewhere else in the mists (or some-‘when’ else).

The lore surrounding passage ways through the mists is actually much more extended then the bloodstones. If I were to be better with names I could give you the name that goes with the story of the various passage ways through it. Wiki is my friend (lord Odran) : http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lord_Odran

While I am not the kind of person to dismiss the possibility that the bloodstone already existed b4 the Gods arrived, and that they merely sealed it with the blood of king Doric and broke it into bits. And that indeed it was some sort of exit point of a passage way that was used by the Gods to enter Tyria. I would advice you to acknowledge that there are way more passage ways, and through that, it makes it questionable that the bloodstone was some sort of gateway, because if so, then why wouldn’t other passage ways need bloodstones (or equivalents) as well
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mists

Shiren.9532:

I suspect the locket is a red herring to get players to discuss Jennah as a possible assassination candidate…

Yes, and ‘in fact’ we know that a certain someone has already tried to at least kidnap her for …???… (in my views her relation to the bloodstones).

In this regard I already made a thread asking whether or not we think that Scarlet rebuild Omadd’s Machine in the ley line hub, and altered it (improved). And we do not know specifically what more she saw… Like, we are more then likely pulled out of the machine by our friends, or somehow ‘ejected’. But there are heavy chains on the machine and it ‘used to’ come with a coffin like thing as well (likely transported out by the inquest, including a subject in there) … so we only saw a snippet … Scarlet though, might have been watching that thing like evening telly…

And if it were to display some sort of future events, or at least possible futures based on possible actions. Then that would explain her somewhat erratic actions, she was merely preparing herself for any possible outcome of various actions, one of which was related to Queen Jenna. We prevented this, and through that she changed her course of action.

As far as God = Dragons goes, well a few things are worth noting:
- We do not know if ‘the Gods’ were already actual Gods when they entered Tyria.
- A party size was 8 in GW1.
- The pantheon strikes me a lot as a ‘Hero Band’
- It would not have been the ‘last’ time that a hero group falls apart, aka. Destinies Edge sort of did, So maybe the group that first entered Tyria (to then become the Gods) also did. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely…

So history may have gone more like:
- A group of heroes from another location in ‘the mists’ find a pathway to Tyria (which by all means is just another location (or time) in the mists).
- They find themselves in a Dragon torn land, and defeat these dragons, through this they attain/absorb the Dragons Powers. OR, they defeat those entities that hold these powers b4 them (the old races that defeated the dragons).
- They return to where ever the Humans came from, as heroes and ‘Gods’, but likely transferring that huge amount of Magic through the Mists disturbs the plane of the Humans. So in an effort to safe humanity the group of heroes do what is now their only option, return to where they attained their magic, and take humanity with them.
- Quarrel then arises over whether or not the Magic should be shared with all humans, Abaddon surely thinks so, the other ‘gods’ not so much… the rest is somewhat ‘known’ history…

With this in mind one could see an 8 group party form up:
- Dwayna
- Baltazar
- Menzies
- Dhuum
- Lyss
- Ilsa
- Melandru
- Abaddon

The ‘Destinies Edge’ of a time long forgotten, the first of ‘humans’ to arrive on Tyria, slayers of Gods (or Dragons), Assurpers of Power. In essence the demise of the Human world and the saviour of mankind by leading them to Tyria…

Now through various Absorptions of God Powers, we can deduct that these aspects of magic come in various sub-aspects. And combinations can thus differ (in this regard I already hinted at the vision displaying some sort of breakdown of the orbs in different ‘levels’). This is more then likely why we can not link all the Gods to one orb. These orbs are simply not a 1 on 1 translation of magic, to that of the Gods.

Quite possibly the Dragons are some form of a ‘reset’ mechanism, where the dissipation and chaos created by the mingling of magic is ‘reset’ into the 6 (or 7 – I will leave this open) aspects, as they relate to these Dragons. Do realise though that if this is a natural order, then after the Dragons there will be another ‘order’ a re-shake of the magical plane. Into the order of ‘that’ specific time and breakdown of magic. In this sense one might wonder if the action of anyone (even the gods and their quarrels, replacements and absorptions) are nothing but the playing out of the Natural Order.

Which ultimately leads to a sort of deterministic world view. Which, by all means, seems to be exactly the kind of struggle that Scarlet is wrestling with, and seems to be a large factor in her actions. There is even a quote from her saying something like: ‘I refuse to accept ’the deterministic vision’, I will take the actions I deem needed regardless of the consequences, to make a mark upon this world when all the dust has settled’ …

Though with some sort of ‘corruption’ mixed in, she might have seen her actions as the only ‘free road’ left to take (or as the road to freedom of choice and action), while in fact from that point onwards she was taking the actions that were dictated to unfold in a deterministic world. ‘Do not go against ’the dream’, we all have a part to play’…

Deeeeep stuff !

@Chrispy, yes, there is A LOT going on all of a sudden, it’s as if our critique on the series deviating to much from the original story has spurred Anet to go all out to prove they haven’t.

There are various things all happening at once, so much so that it is hard to un-raffle what belongs where. The destination of the vines, the whole vision, the dragon awakening, the effects of defeating Zaithan (possibly), the Zepherites fate, The locket and the Royal Bloodline of King Doric (in which case you might also have to view the assault on the queen by scarlet in a whole different light).

Anyways, in regards to the ‘bloodstones’ and ‘the Dragons’ : https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/The-bloodstones-related-to-LS2/first#content
I un-raffled a possible ‘Dragon Concentration’ around the Bloodstone Caves, and (personally discovered, aka. I hadn’t yet realized) the actual entrance to this ‘dungeon’ is still in the game. Personally I think the locket is tied into this, through the ‘blood’(line) of king Doric and the Seal on Magic and the bloodstones with that same ‘blood’.

After heading to Sparkfly Fen, on the hunt for the entrance to the bloodstone caves, I was pleased to find it, there is even a stone across the entrance that has faint markings on it that are not some native stone texture. This ‘is’ the original door… and the cave system, well it collapsed in… (side note, on the ‘minimap’ the original location of Gadd’s encampment can even be distinguished, even though ‘in world’ the terrain has suffered from the rise of Orr in such a way that it can’t be reached).

Why is this important, well, if I were to link the bloodstones in some way shape or form with the Dragons, then I should show (or actually ‘it’ should show) that other Dragons have an interest in the Bloodstones as well…

Cue, Tequatl … where does he assault? Exactly, on the coast right there mere ‘miles’ away from the entrance to the bloodstone caves. Where do his minions head? Right, down the cave system leading into the ‘Sparkfly Fen’ back lands. Only stopped there by a reinforced camp…

Now true, this is circumstantial evidence, but in regards to this ‘speculative theorie’ I thought it well worth mentioning… And obviously I will be scouting around this ‘larger’ area of the bloodstone caves, to see if I can find ‘more’ Dragon activities, of the various Dragons. One that I recall straight away though, seeing I was in Timberline for the LS2 (obviously) are the ‘wells’ south of Concordia. Are there undead ‘underground’ in Timberline falls? If they are underground, then they are obviously in cave systems… If they are in cave systems, then what is the most likely cave system in that area… And then, what most likely destination/target would they have to be in this cave system?!?

Is it a coincidence that ‘east’ of Timberline Falls there is a place called ‘Metrica Provice’, well ‘no’ obviously geography is just that… but! what about what is in Metrica Provice! .. f/e Mealstrom Bile, a large ‘vulcano’ swarming with… Primordus Minions, this place is apparently ‘that’ important to Primordus that he has send one of his ‘lieutenants’ there, as can be witnessed by the boss fight there…

…

So there you go, 3 out of 5 with a possible interest in the ‘bloodstone cave’ area, to me at least, this all feels a lot less circumstantial now… Evidence, well no, there are no clear facts yet, but I would argue that these are fairly clear pointers non the less…

I do agree that there seems to be a fault, in regards to using waypoint as a means of invasion. A gold fee is hardly a hurdle to get an army through…

To close the loophole it would only make sense if the organisation behind the waypoints had a biometric passport system linked to it, which in turn could be linked to criminal records. This way the more likely culprits ‘bandits, thugs’ and other scum could have their waypoint ‘licence’ revoked, and invasion through waypoint use averted. As these are the more likely people to form a group and invade/raid a location. In case of a declaration of war, the whole system may well be shut down…
Only risk, the Asura declare war :P … or, some Inquest goon ‘hacks’ the waypoint grid…

Seeing the waypoint breaks down a character’s energy, and this obviously has a specific signature so that it can be reassembled. These signatures could be the ‘passport’ system…

Seeing such a system isn’t in place yet, it may be a wise choice to use the LS to create a certain ‘incident’ with the waypoint system. To then incorporate ‘put in place’ a licence system as described… loop hole closed, all is well again ^^ (apart from the Azura thread)

I have briefly pondered the same thing, for there to be a ‘living’ world, the Zepherites just can’t ‘stay’ injured and scattered all over the place… and surely after (at the end) this LS2 comes to conclusion the area will have to change into a more generic ‘stuck in time’ → ‘but acceptable state’ …

And I personally think the seeds have already been put in place. There is a ‘town’ now lacking citizens, and for as far as Zepherites didn’t die in the crash, they were likely hit by the vines as well. There are also the centaur nearby, a friendly tribe, who, in a sense, share some of the more friendly qualities with the Zephrites. These centaur also know of the Inquest (I think one warns for them), so they have been around for some time, and obviously there is still some ‘bandit’ trading going on…

So more then likely the Zepherites will stay there, in limbo, trying to rebuild one of their ships, in hopes of returning back to the skies. We will still be able to gain ‘favor’ by completing quests that contribute to their survival, the rebuilding of their armada, and regaining all the remains of Glint.

As far as farming goes I am somewhat sure that plans have already been made:
- What if the Mega Server doesn’t yield enough players for the higher tiers → then likely all rewards will be placed in all tiers. Tiers now only represent prices.
- What if this means that farming will take ages (esp. for the new players) → drop rates may be increased slightly, and rewards gained from doing the actual story parts will increase more dramatically. So that the new players are helped in their purchases…

Lastly: What will become of the Zepherite festival ?? assuming it will return…
- Well we might see a reverse trade happening in this case. Only a small ship (or a few) will be completed b4 the next festival. They will want our ‘gathered’ goods in return of various items they traded/gathered locally (in Dry Top areas). Some of the rewards able for purchase for geodes in Dry Top, may also be for trade…

This will make sense, instead of have a lot of ‘gathered’ goods to trade (mainly foods though), they are now in a less fruit full area (that small Centaur farm will not be enough to sustain everybody – also see the bandit trade going on). So they will trade what they have an abundance of now, for all sorts of goods they do need.

And the whole thing ‘for the rest of it’ can pretty much stay the same. Now the area will make sense for as long as the Zepherites need to rebuild their fleet, and the festival can stay the same (be it with a difference in trading goods). Where the fleet progress of the Zepherites can be displayed every year. Disregarding in a sense what happens in Dry Top, given that dialog there says something like: ‘we intend to stay here until we rebuild our fleet, so all our people can take to the skies once more’. Possibly occasionally the fleet will also be for display somewhere in Dry Top, showing that besides some trade runs for festivals, the Zepherites remain in Dry Top until they are prepared to leave again…

And even ‘after’ they leave, the Dry Top area can remain largely the same. Only now there are Zepherites that stay there because they feel there are still remains of Glint to be found. Or, they got into relations with locals. Or they want to stay where their family is buried to attend to their grave… The zepherite festival might, at that point, change locations (if it didn’t already), to be held at Dry Top. So that each year at least all Zepherites can be united, and all can commemorate ‘the fallen’. They will also be there to pick up further found remains of Glint, and obviously drop off supplies…

A lot has changed, a lot of history added, but ‘in essence’ a lot remained the same and all is well… so don’t worry to much ok

Well the part you find in the desert is clearly A part of the machine, and stranded steam creature was likely carrying it. She didn’t make calculations (see the piece of paper in the ley line hub) to see if these things could carry her groceries.

Well, you do not see whether or if the white orb is ejected on the other side. We see one of the sphere’s allegedly representing the Dragons, ‘taking center stage’ (literally). We do not know what that means…

For all we know it could also mean the death of Zaithan, we killed him… and the order of life as represented by the tree, means that dead things return to ‘the tree’ in order to create new life (the age old ‘circle of life, represented by the tree thing). But seeing that Zaithan represented a ’kitten’ load of magic, of a certain type. His death could have a HUGE impact on the balance of magic. All of a sudden all the combined and gathered undead magic, that was still stored in Zaithan and all that he consumed. is released at once… flooding ‘the magical plane’ with un-dead magic…

I mean, I haven’t read that option just yet, but it is certainly a possibility… What does that mean? I dunno? Perhaps the true Zombie Apocalypse is upon us?

@Kiba … look at the vision, a beam of light eminates from the center to ‘awaken’ each ‘orb’…

How do dragons awake? We (I think) only know of what happened with Primordus, but no reason to think otherwise for the other dragons… And what happened there? The Champion awoke first, way earlier actually than the Dragon itself…

Sooo, what if these orbs just represent a domain of certain magic, which is represented by a Dragon. The center sends out a ‘call’ and the CHAMPION awakes, he makes the preparations for the actual awakening of the Dragon… This then tells us that the ‘order’ of awakening is exactly like the vision tells us, only not the order the dragons awake, but the order their respected Champions awake…

If Mordremoth was the 4th to awake, or at least his Champion, then what ‘on Tyria’ took him so long to awaken himself. To some extend I still believe that the actual Pale Tree was supposed to be the Champion of Mordremoth, ‘but’, she may have suffered a case of ‘The Glint’. Turned to the bright side she has…

Which may or may not have meant for Mordremoth to ‘grow another tree’, and seeing we don’t know how large a force a Dragon longs b4 he awakens, various years for the tree to grow (or possibly trees). Makes me wonder what that other tree is like now, they didn’t have a dream, do they now then just bow to the master?

Fairly complicated that last bit is… but at least by using the Awakening order of Dragons. Champion – Raise Army & Gather Magical Morning Coffee Objects – Awaken the Boss. To then linking that back to the vision, at least it somewhat makes sense, which ever reason there is/was for the possible delay in the true awakening of Mordremoth. if there was any…

Where is the body then? Why the mention of ‘newer parts’, it sure wasn’t Omadd working on the machine anymore… Though sure, he could have made the alterations as he went on, hoping that with the alterations his ‘subjects’ wouldn’t go as crazy as the last one…

But also, it seems as though Scarlet had her Steam Creatures move the Machine, at least I think that is what the lost piece, and the broken down steam creatures are supposed to represent. Why move it, if in fact, the machine was already there? (as Omadd tested the machine a couple of times already, prior to Scarlet).

Obviously it might just mean that Scarlet used the Steam creatures to move the Newer Components as Omadd made alterations to his machine, prior to Scarlet using it… guess that could work…

Still though, make you wonder, well make me wonder anyways…

Also because Scarlet found the Ley Line Hub due to mention of the Miner, I think, and no one in the village ever said anything about an Asura being with her? Hmmm. or was there… Beginning to doubt now, didn’t one of them mention an Asura? Well, most are dead now, so no way to ask them again.

The reason why the pale tree is in there, might simply be because ‘she’ feeds on the magic of the Ley Lines. She is a conscious being, and her roots have obviously found the ley lines as well.

When ‘you’ speculatively tap into the ley lines magic, you come across her, as she senses you with her roots. Only by moving past her ‘interference’ you get to what the vision would show if there was no Pale Tree…

There is one ‘but’, and that is if the tree in the vision isn’t actually the pale tree, but the ‘tree of life’ in general. A well known representation of all the live in any place, which might be ‘why’ all races see the same tree there. The pale tree might be the voice, as she herself might find a strong relation/connection with the actual tree of life. She then guards the ‘way of life’ in a similar fashion that a non sentient ‘merely representative’ tree of life would do… or at least, what the pale tree thinks that tree would do, due to her foundations through Ventauri…

This is one of the things that I sort of struggle with. Is this the actual location of Omadd’s lab? From the remains scattered it feels as though Scarlet moved all of Omadd’s things to this location? She had her steamcreatures apparently move everything…

Or did she and Omadd both move to this location?

It’s somewhat weird, because the ‘story’ tells that Omadd found her with the frogs, after she was expelled due to inquest troubles. Her recordings how ever, seem to lack a timestamp…

After she goes into the machine she makes but a few recordings, one of which is at some point ‘she doesn’t need her steam critters anymore’. Was that after she moved Omadd’s machine to the Ley line hub? … In the story Taimy mentions that not all the parts look of the same age, and that she ‘thus’ has made alterations (well we see one original piece in the desert somewhere, so she must have at least replaced that).

So why rebuild something if you are not inclined to use the machine again? and again? and again?

MithranArkanere.8957:

I think those are not the gods, or the dragons.

I think those are the 6 domains of magic in the Eternal Alchemy.

I think you are both right, and somewhat wrong. The God & Dragons are all but ‘representers’ of these domains of magic, so in a sense they ‘are’ these orbs, yet they are not.

I also think that seeing that from the center, each orb is ‘hit’ with light from the center, that the awakening order is actually the ‘cue’ for the Champion (which wakes up b4 its master), to start w/e champions do. (this was the order with Primordus.) The order of lighting up, and relation with the dragons does then make sense, the Champion of Mordremoth woke up as the 4th Champion.

Also, from the looks of it there are not 6 but 7 aspects of magic, unless it is to be viewed as ‘spectra’, where the center ‘white’ is all the magic domains combined. Similar to light in our world…

Then perhaps the location of the ‘domain of anguish’ in the center of the Realm of Torment, being an actual ‘piece’ of the realm of Abaddon. Might make sense in that the center in the ‘Vision’ is the actual world… where all the magic is just that ‘magic’.

Hope this all makes sense, also in relation to the post I made above here…

The Gods
- Balthazar: Fire (&War)
- Dwayna: Life and Air
- Grenth: Ice & ’Death’* (it is unclear where Grenth, as a mortal, gained the power of Ice)
- Lyssa: Illusions (beauty)
- Melandru: Nature and Earth
- Abaddon: Secrets & Water -> Kormir: Truth & Knowledge (Water = absorbed by – Lyssa after the final defeat of Abaddon)
- Dhuum: Death, ‘dormant state’*
- Menzies: Lord of Destruction, Shadow ‘Army’.
--————————————-
Professions GW1:
- Balthazar: Command & Spear Paragons, Fire Elementalists, Scythe Dervishes, Protection & Smiting Monks, and Warriors.
- Dwayna: Air Elementalists, Divine Favor & Healing Monks, Leadership & Motivation Paragons, and Wind Dervishes.
- Grenth: Assassins, Necromancers, Ritualists, and Water Elementalists.
- Melandru: Earth Dervishes, Earth Elementalists, and Rangers.
- Lyssa: Assassins, Energy Storage Elementalists, Mysticism Dervishes, and Mesmers.
- ?Menzies?: Assassins ‘shadow magic’ ?!?
—————————————-
Champion – Dragons : power (COLOR)
- The Great Destroyer – Primordus: Fire (& Earth?) (RED, YELLOW)
- Unknown Champ – Bubbles: Water (?) (BLUE)
- Drakkar – Jormag: Ice (BLUE WHITE)
- Scarlet? – Mordremoth: Nature (LIGHT GREEN)
- Shatterer – Kralkatorrik : Chaos (?) (PURPLE/PINK)
- Tequatl – Zaithan: Undeath (GREY, DARK GREEN)
- ? – ? – CENTER (WHITE)
—————————————-
Linked to Realm of Torment ‘locations’:
- Primordus – Madness
- Bubbles – Darkness (nightfallen)
- Jormag – Secrets (?)
- Mordremoth – Pain
- Shatterer – Fear
- Zaithan – Shadow
- ??? – CENTER – Anguish (& Abaddon’s Gate)
—————————————-
Linking Torment Realms to ‘anti’-Godpowers.
(Neclecting descriptions of these realms, aka. what is locked into this realm, and thus viewing each as an ‘anti-aspect’ of the respected ‘magic’)

- Gate of Torment -> (ONLY ‘A GATE’ to the whole thing, ‘the tormented realm’.)

- Depths of Madness : bloody, fiery place -> Illusions (LYSSA), Firey place (=Baltazar), bloody (Grenth)
- Nightfallen lands: darkness, with river of souls -> Light / Fire (DWAYNA & pos. Balthazar, Grenth with Darkness & Souls)
- Domain of Secrets: earth & stone vegetation -> Truth (?ABADDON?), Vegetation (Melandru)
- Domain of Pain (physical): Leech Tunnels, river of souls -> Relief (healing – DWAYNA), Grenth ‘flesh & souls’)
- Domain of Fear : Insects -> Courage (fear = GRENTH? / anti-courage = BALTHAZAR / Insects = Melandru)
- The Shadow Nexus: Chaos -> Fire (see Balthazar/Menzies lore) (BALTHAZAR/ ?MENZIES?), (chaos = Lyssa)
- Center: Domain of Anguish -> (THIS IS PART OF Abaddon’s former Realm, Followers of Abaddon are cast here)
--————————————-
1 As can be deducted from the realms, they were truely constructed by all the gods, but they did use (apparently) the ‘structure of reality’ to construct
a prison that was to stand the test of time. Surely clever seeing as reality itself stands the test of time…

2 Linking these Domains though, does reveal one thing (in my eyes), the center ‘orb’ in the vision is an actual orb like the others. A white orb…
Seeing as all the locations in the Realm of Torment overview (where there are also orbs in the vision) relay to actual areas, even the center one.
Now true the center in the domain of Torment has some other things going on, but the only actual ‘place/place’ in there is ‘The Domain of Anguish’.
I have ‘back-filled’ the overview above with this knowledge (?), and added the center aswell…

3 Only the Depths of Madness and the Nightfallen Lands, can somewhat be related to the respected dragons, and locations on the map. But, if the white
is indeed an ‘orb’ on its own, after the green one now took the center, all the others will land in the 6 spots available, the order is anyone’s guess…
And seeing point 1., it’s entirely unclear with the realms even have anything to do with the dragons.

But this is more or less what I was trying to hint at, the aspects of the magical plane can be reordered. And these orbs are just the current ‘allignment’ of most powerful combinations on the plane. The other ‘empty spots’ in the vision are the various breakdowns of how these aspects can be aligned.

In this sense it also makes sense to re-evaluate the realm of torment, each of the gods likely contributed one of the more horrible/painful sides of the magic they represent to build this prison. Which was as much intended to keep Abaddon in, but also, to keep others out…

The reason f/e of the ‘torment’ condition, could indicate that the balance of magic has shifted entirely. Abaddon is dead, the prison dispersed, and ‘Torment’ as an aspect of magic became linked to which ever magic it came from (if, in a system as this) you can even speak of a ‘side of magic it came from’, as these aspects can be mixed in all sorts of combinations, then again, Torment may well be a counter side of a specific aspect, and as such it can be assigned to a certain ‘source aspect’ (like a coin of sorts).

Part of me even wonders if Anet took the care, in the creation of their current professions, to use some sort of magic ‘table’ as to how magic is ‘devided up’ currently. F/e Water heals, so does this mean that the ‘Water’-power is currently sided up with a ‘Healing’-power? Or has it always been aligned with it? (see healing spring, with the ranger).

Sigh, well likely I’m taking this to far, and ‘game mechanics’ and ‘god/magic/power’-lore just go their separate way at certain points :P

If anything, I really like this LS episode!! only 2 instalments and it feels like a raging storm is blowing through the Lore Archives ^^

ps. Ok I didn’t know Lyssa got Water when Kormir became Truth, if it’s in the Human story then I will take that as a good enough source as anything. I do like the Ice as part of Air power though, for Grenth, unfortunately we do not know where he got it. But we can conclude that Ice is a separate aspect (even if it was once sided with air) because Jormag is clearly the Dragon of Ice…

@Chrispy, that is according to the GW2 wiki, and I think its wrong, check the GW1 wiki and Lyssa was NEVER mentioned as the god of Water. It is also ‘Grenth’ who is the mentioned patron of the water elementalists.

Also, Grenth is a mentioned to have been human, when he defeats Dhuum (or puts him ‘on ice’) he is said to become the Ruler of the underworld. But Dhuum was never the God of Ice! Which means, Grenth must have been the God of Ice prior to conquering the UW. And if he was human b4, he must have gotten the God of Ice powers from somewhere. If you check upon the old pantheon, the only logical place to gain these powers is from Abaddon, as he was the God of Water…

ps. Water in it’s liquid form currently has healing powers, which would hint more at ‘Dwayna’ gaining the power of water, and healing. And if indeed Grenth is her son, she might have granted him the power of Ice so her son would be a God like her, and not some semi-herculean mortal… (although, this might have been a reason for him to put Dhuum ‘on ice’ – if you rule over the dead, and put death on hold, you don’t have to die yourself either)

Funny, I’m working on something quite similar to this …

One thing I would like to mention in regards to Dhuum and Grenth… mainly to support your claim that Grenth & Dhuum are separate entities. Do realize that Dhuum was NOT EVER killed, he was merely put in a dormant state and Grenth Ruled his realm in his place. Dhuum gained in strength with every death entering the underworld, which meant he had to be defeated time and time again.

Also worth noting is that Abaddon has always been the God of Water and that of Secrets. Now when Kormir absorbs his powers, the only thing ‘left’ is ‘secrets’ and she becomes the god of the opposite, ‘truth’. Now where did the ‘water powers go?’ …

Well Abaddon was defeated once b4, and he was cast into the Realm of Torment. Apparently he kept being the ‘God of Secrets’. But someone did gain the ‘God of Water’ powers. It was Grenth, only instead he became the god of Ice (/which is basically water) … Which I think he then used to defeat Dhuum, and take his place, and rule over the underworld. (I didn’t know he was Dwayna’s son though, the son of Dwayna and this lunatic sculpter?)

One of the constants in the Gods legends, is the absorption of powers of a previous god upon this God’s true ‘death’. Aka. Dhuum is defeated multiple times, but he keeps his power as the God of Death (he is Death – Death Eternal) that is perhaps why he can’t be truly defeated, and keeps getting stronger on every death (and entry into the Underworld). But all the other ‘Gods’ seem to have gotten their powers from a predecessor, like in the stories of mainly Abaddon, but also Balthazar & Menzies and their Father seem to have some ‘weird thing’ going on… It’s almost as if they fought (either their father) a God of ‘Fire & Shade’ and Balthazar got the Fire power (light) and Menzies drew the short stick and became a Lesser God of Shade (which then put him into ‘the shade’ of Baltazar, and Menzies fought his brother to also gain his power).

Aka. What I am getting at is that even though we see 6 (or 7) orbs, I have this feeling these ‘orbs’ represent a bound state of certain aspects of magic. I still need to leave in the middle whether this is the natural order of Magic dispersion on Tyria. But as woodenpatato mentioned in his analysis, there are various other ‘empty places’ in the enternal alchemie orb vision…

What are now ‘complete orbs’, in this day and age on Tyria. These other empty spots may hint that these orbs consist of various combined aspects of Magic. And these can even ‘mix match’ with eachother in various ‘states’ of magic, around the mists (aka. the galaxy or w/e you want to call the center). Sort of like an ‘atom’ has a core and various possible ‘energy states’ where electrons can reside.

The first thing I thought when the locked was described… ‘This is the Keystone’ …which is described as an object (referred to as ‘stone’), that is used to combine the ‘4’ bloodstones, if they were to ever be ‘reunited’.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bloodstone
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/King_Doric

The keystone, was said to be dumped into the volcano named ’Abaddon’s Mouth. In an eruption all but one ‘stone’ was ejected. Now this could mean that if the locket was indeed the keystone, and it was indeed dumped into the volcano, and later ejected. That could be the reason as to why the locket is not in the hands of the Royal Family.

The actively showing portrait on the locket is more then likely related to the incantations and the sealing with King Doric’s Blood. It shows the living heir to the throne based upon the ‘blood line’ of Doric. This mention was actually what sparked the ‘key stone’ into my brain…

@kain, that is a little harsh don’t you think? not all profession can actually use a sword…

EgonVenkman.1907:

Redshirts in the original star trek had more time to gain empathy with them than Belinda. Not to mention for a video game crowd, this is very much the been there, done that type of hero-ing we’ve seen and done a thousand times.

Perhaps I meant ‘empathy’ for Marjory ? But I know ‘empathy’ is a quality that is dieing out, so I don’t blame you for missing my point

Speaking of Husks, I miss them, they flopped upside down on death so funny ^^ … Hopefully we will see their return as we venture further into the Maguma, but they used to be quite common once :/ … and they are actually called Aloe … the Aloe Husk was the one in pre-searing, I guess that ‘husk’ thing stuck with me since the beginning, so much so that it never appeared to me the actual name was Aloe :/

@TPAM, well there are 5 bloodstones, including the keystone (but that may well be a Royal Locket, that displays the current ‘king/queen’ of kryta).

But also, the reason for the ‘construction’ of the bloodstones was to restrict the amount of magic in the world. It is said that the large amount of magic turned the world to chaos, so the bloodstones were constructed to restrain the magic available. And through that the 4 schools of magic came to be…

So, if there are 6 ‘kinds’ of magic, and only 2 are allowed or some are merged, or atleast, the bloodstones restrict the ‘free flow’ of at least 2 types of magic. Then as a dragon, being restrained in regards to the manifestation of your type of magic, would you not try and go after the items that restrain you? For example, attack a certain transport of a particular magic item related to the royal line that is directly related to the creation of these stones…

At least, that is my hypotheses, also posted in the lore section of the forum … but this is getting fairly off topic now, we were discussing if Zaithan can be considered as ‘alive’ seeing there are still 6 orbs, and not 5…

It’s almost bedtime of me, I will investigate further tomorrow. The whole thing acts really weird, currently I noticed that it is only in a specific area of Timerline Falls, and in the Concordia Instance.

While it seemed related to the number of people in the specific area, I noted that it was still there even just after the servers were back online after the DDos, with only few people around the area was effected. Strangely enough, I have also noted two instances in which there was no weird effect in that in world area (which I can only describe as ‘blur’, the character becomes somewhat vague ‘blurred’, when at a certain zoom-out distance from my character).

From the first, I do not know is if that was during the day or night, but seeing that will take me some time hanging around there to see if this effect is related to the day or night, it will have to wait… and needs further investigation.

The second was when the DDos happened and I was basically ‘out of the game’ but could still see all sorts of stuff happening (though lagging) in the world, then I disconnected. While I was experiencing this ‘blur’ effect, it was gone at the moment I was basically ‘lagged out’ entirely.

This sort of tells me that the area, for as far as data is stored on my computer locally, has the correct non blur data for this area. As clearly I wasn’t receiving any more information from the servers… which in turn means it is some sort of data being relayed from the server to my computer. What kind that is I can obviously not track, but it should help in finding out what is going on

@Arewn, read the post just above yours, you can likely find many sources (from defs) of how the dragons are ‘described’ to be. Then the whole dead or defeated doesn’t really matter anymore. The question is, might there be another ‘Undead Dragon’, which ever name we give him. And from the way that the dragons are described (and how that may pan out, as described in my post above yours). As well as the vision of the Eternal Alchemy, I will say ‘Yes’ there will! … Will it be in our life time? In our PC lifetime? That remains to be seen, but yes, in 10.000y or whenever the Dragons awake another time, there will be another Undead Dragon. It is how nature on Tyria works ‘apparently’… or at least how I understand it

Even though the new instalment of the LS took away a bit of the interest in where the vines are heading, and the whole vision speculation taking away another big part of attention… In the discussion about the vines directions I opted for them heading toward the bloodstones!

I am actually strengthened by this new instalment, as them being the target of Mordremoth’s vines… why?

Finding the Royal Locket and it being a specific target of Mordremoth has me thinking two things:
A. We may have finally located ‘the keystone’
B. Mordremoth might truly be going after the bloodstones.

Now we can’t see if the vines are also spreading towards the Maguma bloodstone, nor can we see if the Vulcano Islands are now a vine invested. But one of the vines is somewhat moving into the direction of the bloodstone that was near Gadd’s encampment, now I can’t fully recall how far into the mountains this bloodstone is situated (doubt it can be seen on the GW1 map).

But if the Royal locket is the actual ‘key stone’, and that was the first thing I was thinking about when I heard this object described. And indeed the southern heading vines are going to the Gadd’s Bloodstone (in bloodstone caves). Then the other vines must be going to the last ‘unknown’ location of the last ‘lost’ bloodstone.

I find it also a viable theory after seeing the vision. Why? Because the vision clearly showed 6 spectra/aspects of magic, and we are only known to 4 schools of magic. Also, the bloodstones are described as ‘filters’ to reduce the amount of available magic. If Mordremoth is part of a magic spectra that is filtered out by the bloodstones, then these items are greatly reducing his power. If anything ‘I’ would set out to destroy these if I had bigger plans…