Guild Wars 2

In regards to the OP, I would like to say that I mostly posted this theory for offering ‘a different perspective’, not necessarily one that has to be true. So basically an alternative amongst other possible ways to see the Pale Tree …

For me the whole vision, with the order of lighting up the orbs, in relation with the awakening sequence of the Dragons themselves, and what the Champions are (deducted) supposed to achieve (w/e that is) to truly awaken their Dragon, still makes the Pale Tree a high candidate for a champion of Mordremoth, with a severe case of ‘the Glint’.

Aka. The Glint ‘infection’ brought on by the circumstances of the Tree’s upbringing, caused it to not fulfil it’s duties as a Champion of Mordremoth, and due to that Mordremoth’s slumber (even though being the ‘4th to be lit up’) took it way longer than intended and was it the 6th to actually wake up.

As an explanation for the whole vision, in relation to actual affairs, that fits very well… still though until we can get some more information that can confirm one or the other, I personally think it is a good thing to look beyond that and come up with other hypothesis that can make sense as well. Be it though, that this hypothesis needs another explanation for the vision…

BrotherBelial.3094:

On a side note, would the undead in Guild Wars be the first minions of Zhitan? And kilbran like a Dragon champion/worshiper?

Well that all depends on whether or not minions stick around after their dragon returned to slumber…

And depending on your point of view, if all magic is consumed by the dragons and then ‘bled’ out again over time, in their ‘colour’. Is then any object infused with it, or any spell using said magic. Or indeed any ‘minion’ created, in a sense linked to said dragon??

So at first I wouldn’t go that far, personally I think the relation between the un-dead in GW1 with Orr (through the Orr emblems) may have had more to do with the spell that sunk Orr, than it having to do with Zhaitan ‘persee’ (even though he was right below there bleeding his un-dead magic into the world). In a sense I would say that the un-dead in GW1 were more like the Ascalonian Ghosts we see ‘today’ in GW2.

You may want to check the various threads on this already, both here in the lore forum, as well as in the living world section (you may have to go to the ‘previous’ one – which is likely locked at the bottom of the forum overview – archives).

As far as Divinity goes, it was build to honour the 6 gods, or, see the other thread about this too… should be here in the lore forum too.

When trying to map the Ley Lines on Tyria, and things that might be related to it, I could not, not be remembered of this map. Any else share the same suspicion as me… is the Order of Whispers trying to ‘also’ map these rivers of magic on Tyria?

Those puddles and ‘rivers’ strike me as fairly crude though, but still, the image is strikingly what I could see used for this purpose…

So @OP , why the disclaimer? who said they are not? where is the source for this disclaimer?

@Draxynnic, like I said, it’s an hypothesis to substitute into what we do not yet understand… sort-a like ‘magic did it’ …but my main concern was that for what ever dark matter turns out to be, it’s not a good analogy to describe ‘ether’, although it was more then likely thrown in, related to ‘unable to study’ … but then the example goes a bit flat… so I proposed the Higgs field, also something you can’t see nor study directly that is indirectly responsible for the effect of mass, through interaction with the Higgs-bozon. Which may actually have been found in the LHC…

ps. and yes, I personally think that our understanding of what ‘gravity’ is, is so limited that basing anything on it on a galactic scale is going to run wrong somewhere. Also the extrapolations that are likely done to calculate the ratio hydrogen/helium can introduce flaws, and to that, the role that Jets play in possibly replenishing some of it. Same goes with determining the amount of mass, which can only be done based upon the distance we can see, and only by extrapolations.

I’m personally hoping that study of gravity lenses will increase our knowledge of the amount of gravity that is produced by a galaxy; as well as more study of black holes might reveal what is actually in them, and how Jets are related.

My guess is that we are way off for the relationship between hydrogen/helium, that we are off in our calculation of mass, and that we underestimate the amount of mass stored in black holes. Hopefully those, together with the Higgs Boson (if it’s actually found) and its relation to the creation of mass, and the relation of mass with gravity (or interaction to create weight) will increase our knowledge even more.

Though I will say that throwing away Relativity should not be part of it, actually, I think we do not take relativity into account as much as we should, in a lot of fields of study (mainly general relativity). For example in the relationship it has with ‘red shift’ determinations, which in turn will have it’s implications for ‘Dark Energy’ and the ‘Expansion’ of the universe.

But it’s also likely that as mere interested person into the inner workings of our reality, I am off in various places. I don’t mind science is more about being wrong than it would be about being right, actually, it is a lot about trying to come up with alternatives that can be tested to proof other things wrong, and seeing there lies one of my strong points (creativity) it is where most of my effort finds it way…

@Vexander, yup, there is one ‘but’ to the whole thing though, that is the origin of the Thaumanova reactant. It is linked to the Crystal Caverns Jumping Puzzle. Which, as I inspected the map that has the actual waypoints effected by Mordi in it, is not really connected to ‘the brand’, it’s a whole map width away from it actually…

This means that the Crystals that are in said cave, are not of ’Kralki’s current awakening’ … now they may still be Kralki’s though! But then those he put down over 10.000y ago, as he flew from where ever to his resting place in Charr Territory… I will inspect this cave in the days to come though, as I want to inspect it more intensely myself

@kta, that reads more like the origin of the Druids though, turned into ‘Oak Hearts’ to then after death turn into ghost like Oak Hearts revered to as Druids in GW1. But I will say that in that sense Melandru does sound like a possible candidate for being a ‘previous’ Pale Tree, sprouted during the last rise of the Dragons.

Leallax.1482:

wow I actually like this theory. May I ask what inspired it?

Seeing the long version starts roughly when I was born, I will save you my live’s story and go straight to the short version… :P

I played GW1 since beta, as well as GW2, so there is a lot of residual information. The thing that sparked it, I think, was when I figured… ‘Ok, the pale tree is not a dragon, It might not even be an intended champion of a dragon, so what is it…. Ok wait, these dragons are a cyclical event, what if the pale tree too is a cyclical event, so ok, that would mean this previous tree would have made sylvari. Well, we have no account of those, what does the pale tree do really… well in one of the earlier dev talks about the Pale tree it was said she created sylvari (like humanoids) because that is what she found around her when she grew up. Ok, so hold it there, she makes what she finds around her, if that wouldn’t have been humans or any other high sentient being it would be what ever else she found… but in plant form…

Thus I was reminded of all the plant life on Tyria, and due to parts of this episode revolving around the Maguma, and close to the Henge, also somewhat to the Druids. But these were drawn back human spirits. So then what else. Well Oakheart and the like, aloe seeds, and some other hideous plant creatures (Thorn Stalkers). Which I would have to say: I linked to the Seed of the pale tree prior to GW2 coming out, on a different forum, to a cave that ‘might’ have been the cave where Ronan found the seed in ’Ettin’s back’ which is also the location of Ventari’s refuge.

anyways, so, I once again searched for ‘plants’ on gw1wiki: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Plants then saw the http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Unnatural_Growths … and linked that to Scarlet and CoE – still fresh in my mind. But also, the mention of ‘high concentration of magic’ and the whole ‘role’ the Dragons are said to fullfill, then obviously made me think: What if it is this magic that effected a tree to become a ‘pale tree’ … And I think I made the full circle now … still longer than I expected, but hey, at least I left my whole life out of it ;D

Also @Redstar, then I came to think of what else could point towards there being a cyclical ‘pale tree’. Well, what else lives in the dense jungle. In both GW1 and GW2 it’s mostly Centaur as ‘original population’. So, Ventari was a centaur, and he apparently was inspired by a much older teaching of peace and love. And also, they refer trees very much… well that is convenient, a lesser race that lives in the Maguma Jungle that warships trees and spirits of nature…

Mostly then at Redstar, well see, there wasn’t that much going on in the Maguma Jungle by the looks of it. Only truly old structures that I know of, are the ‘likely’ Mursaat ruins where now lies Rata Sum. And a Baltazar’s statue deep in the forest. And as that older Pale Tree might not have made actual sentient creatures to begin with, how would the sentient creatures of those days know what they were. More then likely they would have linked them to Mordremoth… In that sense, Glint wouldn’t have known about that Pale Tree either… I mean ‘how would she?’. Apparently the only creatures that might have come into contact with the tree may have been the Centaur. Who then, like the Grawl of today worshipping things, started to worship the tree, it’s teachings may then have inspired the whole ‘religious belief’, which then would have inspired Ventari, which in turn inspired the new tree. Though she might not have needed said inspiration to begin with…

Ok, well that might still be a lot of work, depending on where you put your boundaries (f/e the Risen, Flame Legion have loads). I mapped the destroyers because I knew there were only a few of them, and seeing there were only a few, I wanted to know where…

For the images I frequent the wiki, or I search (image) the interwebs. Then I use photoshop to clear the image of everything around the thing I want, and save that (as photoshop file). Then I copy/past that cut out into a new file that is much smaller (roughly 72×72px) and resize the image to fit, then save that (as photoshop file). Then I select the whole image, copy, and paste it onto the map (where it is put into a layer of it’s own), then I put it in the right spot, if needed I adjust the size a little more. Then I basically try to ‘duplicate’ the layer as much as possible, seeing that makes it a lot easier to (once all are plotted) to select them all and merge the layers. Then I name said layer to what it represents…

@Versidia, ‘every dragon minion encounter’ ? … well, I guess the main reason I make the map and plan to release a _Base portion of it, aka, without all those possible ley lines drawn onto it, is so that people can more easily add to it… if you want to map all the dragon minion encounters, feel free to do so :P

Btw. Kralki’s minions from what I seen have not move one step outside of the brand. I already plotted all Destroyer sightings (for as far as on the wiki) onto the map. I plan to at least put a zombie ‘next’ to every map that has them, just to show the spread of them (because they would simply litter the whole map in those area’s were I to map the locations… But mapping all hearts and dynamic events related to any Dragon Minion, I guess if I didn’t want to do any other thing … but, you know … so i’ll leave that for somebody else

All the threads about the Pale Tree have so far (that I read) only focussed on the Pale Tree as being a creature that is on Tyria ‘now’ and ‘for the first time’. But as history points out, the dragons are a cyclical event… what if the pale tree is part of the cycle?

Could it be that at least some of the Plant creatures (while true, ‘not sylvari’) in GW1 would have been created by a previous ‘pale tree’. One that might have taken a different approach to it’s creatures. For one, one could argue that the Oakhearts and other ‘Hearts’ might have been created on a previous cycle. Possibly together with some other plant creatures in GW1. The Pale Tree has shown to be capable of creating different kinds of creatures, so why not the previous Pale Tree…

In a similar sense, ‘how old are the Centaur?’ … could it be that their reverence for a Mother Tree and Spirits of Nature, comes from a time where they were a lesser race and happen to live in the same area the previous Pale Tree grew? In a sense, would the old teachings that also inspired Ventari be teachings of a previous Pale Tree.

The whole ‘where do the seeds come from’, would also be solved. They would simply come from a previous Pale Tree, guarded by the ‘most sentient’ plant creatures that pale tree produced then. So why weren’t there any Sylvari on the world already? Well it is said the Pale Tree mimicked what it found around itself. So if the previous tree would have been in a mostly pristine forest, could it not be assumed it would produce offspring mimicking that, with quite possible some creatures that would more or less resemble ‘elementals’…

This then mostly leads me to question the life expectancy of Dragon Minions as well… Because Mordi also makes these plant like critters. What happens to them if the Dragons return to slumber? We have seen from the defeat of Zhaitan that they do not drop ‘dead’ to the ground. So arguably some, if not a large part, of the plant creatures might also have been ‘Mordrem’. Now seeing Aloe Husks are said to ‘maybe’ be in Pre-Ascalon because of magical experiments in wizards tower, could it be that these experiments are similar to what scarlet tried to do in her ‘tower of madness’, or what the Asura did in CoE.

On the same line would be that these plant creatures are ‘said’ (GW1 wiki) to sprout due to an abundance of Magic present. Well what if the Pale Tree is itself is ‘in essence’ of similar origin, only then on a more ‘global’ scale. See if the Dragons arise when they have practically bled out all their magic, and they are part of a cycle to clean it back up. What if that access of magic then also causes the sprouting of the Pale Tree. In this sense the Pale Tree is not a dragon, it is a side effect of the abundance of magic, which then becomes part of the whole cycle…

Dragons slumber -> magic bleeds into Tyria (along rivers of magic ?) -> excessive amount of magic on Tyria -> Pale Tree Sprouts + First Dragon starts to awaken -> Pale tree grows and produces plant creatures -> More Dragons awaken -> Dragons consume the majority of magic -> Pale Tree Dies off -> Dragons go to slumber -> Minions stick around ?!?

Well a possible explanation for the direction he is heading in could be ‘Kralkatorrik & Shatterer’ … why? … It was said in the interview that the dragons don’t necessarily fight with each other, and only do so if they are directly trespassing in each others territory. They are so to say ‘territorial creatures’…

Now if we look at the ‘guessing ley lines’ map: http://s40.photobucket.com/user/arghore/media/Ley_Line_Progres_125_zps07ace979.jpg.html

We can see that the Terranova Reactor, fuelled by Kralkatorrik Chaos Magic infused crystal, is right on Mordi’s doorstep. Then about right after Mordi fully awakens, the remains of a former Kralkatorrik Champion scatter all over his part of Tyria.

Now, even though Kralki isn’t himself responsible for these things, would you think that Mordi sees it the same way? Possibly not! And what he the does is follow the ‘rivers of magic’ most strongly associated with Kralki’s Chaos magic… This would be the Chaos Cavern/Terranova ‘river’ (unfortunately not yet integrated with ‘sightings’ on the map – and might well have been a chaos river for a long time, ‘if’ it connects to the location where Kralki has been releasing his magic when laying dormant). And he follows the ‘river’ that could well be flowing from ‘The Dragon’s Lair’ towards LA, a possible already existing line, possibly influenced by Glint for all those years.

A lots of ‘possibles’ and ‘maybes’ but my guess is as good as anyone’s I would say

‘And those attacks on Artefacts? well if you go on a long journey, don’t you stop for a snack along the way? It’s what feeds the dragons so an opportunity on route would be enough to trigger a ‘pit-stop’.

Cool, I have a first possible result !
The River of Spirits
- it even comes with it’s own delta, after hitting LA intersection…
- All spirits that deviate from the river to the east can be attributed to another source. (with the highest concentration linked to Ascalon Curse (still might have a link though, in a sense, as the river likely has/had it’s ‘spring’ in Orr, and consequently that is also where the swords came from)
- One possible anomaly is the Henge concentration, this ‘could’ be explained by one of the rivers from the delta taking a turn, some arguments can be made for it though. (shown with red dots)

! Remarkable conclusion, ‘if’ Mordremoth followed part of this river south (aka. his path south is somewhat along this river), then it may be that it got displaced by Scarlet’s actions first, BUT, if it did, then indeed one pocket of spirits should disappear (show with a red circle) … A case can be made though that he is following another river ‘one of fire’ as there is some correlation with dispersement of Destroyers along the same path that Mordremoth took.

http://s40.photobucket.com/user/arghore/media/Ley_Line_Progres_125_zps07ace979.jpg.html

-> Needless to say i made some more progress on the map, i still haven’t gotten to the Terranova reaction spawnlings though (lots of spirits! and i also needed to clean up after myself in my work document). Not sure if I should give a ‘base map’ update every time i worked on it (what do you think?)

There is also another ‘can of wurms’ that is opened with this explanation for magic distribution, that I realized when working on this map. I’ll leave this consideration here for your contemplation…

Assuming we can find various major ‘rivers’, and linked to it certain effects or creature appearance. Then when anything happens (as these rivers can apparently be diverted), this has consequences for all events, creatures, etc. on this ‘river’. Or, obviously the other way around, if a certain ‘river’ is to imply a certain effect or creature, then this effect/creature/etc, should be implemented along the entirety of said river. This then unless, a certain object or effect can be identified to obstruct this behaviour, which in turn should imply that, that object in other location is to have a similar effect…

This then obviously has great implications for implementing certain content. Let’s assume f/e that Scarlet, with her actions in LA, has diverted a ley line (it’s an assumed case here so i am not talking from any possible conclusions from the map! ). Now all the content along the line of the previous flow of said ley line should start to disappear, and on the new line, the old effects should reappear. Which basically means that for Anet to tamper with any ley line or hub, has further reaching consequences then just using it as a way to explain what happened…

Explanations come with consequences, and i do hope that they realized this when they choose to use this, because after you explain magic with ley lines, you can’t use the random ‘because magic’ explanation anymore to explain your deviation from your previous explanation.

On the flip side of the above, this would mean that ‘logic’ dictates that we can find these ‘rivers’ … if not, well then that would be even worse, as it would mean these rivers are pretty much a moot statement to back up a certain story angle, and then the whole dream falls apart.

Read your own post just above mine, then keep reading…

narwhalsbend.7059:

Arghore.8340:

narwhalsbend.7059:

OP wanted lore regarding SB, not your speculation regarding the new LS.

As there isn’t much lore to it currently, other than that it spawn on top of the former temple of ages, where a strong connection realm*S* of the gods were. I thought I would let him know that there may be more lore to be revealed and how it may be related to magic as a whole on Tyria. Whether or not that is interesting to him is not for you to decide?

Regardless of the amount of lore that is there, your speculation does not count as lore in any regard.

I didn’t even state that it was lore, I stated that it was an interesting aspect of what could relate to the Dragon Power Chart that we might have seen in the vision…

@Obsidian, I were to assume I am entitled to have my own opinion? & @Teofa, yeah, I think we can all agree to that one. And if you read my whole post then I’m basically saying the same thing…

@Obsidian, Seeing I do not actively play an Azura (from which I assume that name comes), I am not acquainted with the ins and outs of their theories, so I’m going to have to take your word for it.

@all, general continuation, Mostly, my response was from the to easily made assumption that all this will be fruitless and useless, which, seeing the thread basically starts with the statement that this is mostly done to just do it, felt rather out of place. Further more I am of the opinion that assuming Ley Lines on Tyria are as illusive as the theories on Earth may be a wrong one, but even if so, we won’t know until we put some dirt time into it…

Short version: It is what it is. All we can hope for is that they gave it some sort of twist, if not, then still we can research it using network principles. And if no strong links are found then that’s a conclusion too.

@Teofa, I can read in your sig your a bit hurt by the whole ley line thing, no need to take that out on us though, and I find your comments to be rather scoffing with our efforts to conduct fair and objective research… Now in a sense I will have to mention that I somewhat agree with your sentiment, but only for the poor lack of choice for the word to describe the phenomenon, which due to it’s IRL connection and the implication that arise from this connection.

Why they did this is beyond me, they could have just used ‘rivers of magic’ or ‘magical circuitry’, ‘magical network’ or even ’ Magical Concentrate Relay Connections’ and describe the same thing without opening a whole can of wurms. I put this on the pile of other choices, like f/e the one where everybody in the whole world seems to already know the name of this new dragon (which btw. could have been easily solved by having Scarlet name him by using a mixture of letter from various alphabets, first for us to decipher, then something for DE2.0 to repeat.), that at some level can indeed be called ‘questionable’.

And yes, the choice to use these rivers of magic as a trivial explanation for everything, replacing ‘magic did it’ with ‘ley lines provided the magic that did it’ can be called ‘superficial’ and dumbed down. But apparently the game is supposed to appeal to a wide western young audience, so what do you expect? high level magical physics? In a sense I am more disappointed that they actually choose to give/reveal an explanation for certain things, than the actual explanation they choose…

Now, seeing Tyria doesn’t necessarily relate to the real world as far as this Magic Network is concerned. The whole: draw a line, w/e you want, and you are always right. Is not the way I would like to go about this… What ever the name you like to give to this phenomenon, it’s ‘there’ and thus is can be researched.

We know the Azura found a high correspondence with Portal/Waypoint technology and Functioning. We found 1 (Dry top) and were pointed to another (LA) of intersections of this network, we can study phenomenon around these locations, look at commonalities and see if there are any exceptions elsewhere in the world, and whether these can be explained in a different sense. Hopefully we can find certain commonalities that are strong enough to be linked to this phenomenon and others that are not. Network analysis principles obviously apply… An other starting point is to locate other Portals in the world (as these are a much older technology than waypoints and would thus likely rely more on this ‘Magical Conduit Network’ to function). And see in how far these phenomenon spread across this network…

Hopefully we will see some interaction going on with what is already known about magic, perhaps influences by bloodstones (seeing they landed at random; given that the ‘propelled from the volcano is still lore; did they move certain rivers? do some work as dams or basins?), it would be nice if we could find a location at which the circuitry got displaced or moved. Maybe we have to conclude that it is impossible to find the actual circuits, but we might be able to explain and deduct certain behaviour on intersections (f/e what if a ’Chaos Magic’ line, crosses that of ‘Death Magic’ line? If that is how it could work.) … we won’t know until we look into it!

Ok, all should be well now, the link will take you to photo bucket, hit the download button to the right for the HD version… time to see if the update is live

Ok, this is turning into a lil bit more work then I envisioned :P … but I am definitely making progress! … Question remains though, am I also getting closer to the location of ‘other’ ley lines :P … If anything I added in some of the bigger players as well, which shows some nice things.

I will likely have to get to the Terra Nova Creatures, and Wurms some other time, as the new story will start tonight (might even already be there). I also needs some tidy up work in regards to what is what. I will post this ‘progress’ version with all info so far, so that those interested can take a peak.

http://s40.photobucket.com/user/arghore/media/Ley_Line_Progress_112_zps96aa7c2f.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Ok this ‘kittens’ … my local file and the one I uploaded is of way better quality than this linked version … Ah! I figured out how to get the quality you want, ‘hit the download button’ to the right … that gives you the 6.5mb HD version
and ofcourse I put the wrong link for that one, correcting

versidia.4520:

And nice maps, but I can’t zoom in from that link, this one works better:
http://s40.photobucket.com/user/arghore/media/Ley_Line_SpeculationV201_zps27f12cbf.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

First time using this bucket, so for download I might indeed be better off linking to the original file instead of the generated picture…

Btw. I figured out I missed a couple of portals which I have plotted in, though I am quite sure there are more portals still (mainly ones not in use). (link to file to come here). And I am also trying to plot parts of Psynch research, it’s not getting clearer on all fronts, but the more data points that could make sense, the more likely to find something, or dismiss certain points entirely. – anyways, off to watch those vids again, so I can get the locations fairly right.

Well, if one were to look for E. then first you would have to acknowledge:
A. E has the power of foresight, and manages to point us towards events as they unfold
B. E is part of a Tyrian wide organisation with operatives and spies located in all locations of major, minor and non-importance, and have ways to pass information a long in a timely manner.

Seeing there is actually an organisation like B. and A. would only be anyone that has had access to Omadd’s machine and would have been able to withstand corruption and ways to steer his/her vision to the events of ‘today’, instead of more general visions in a metaphysical representation of them. I were to argue that B. is way more likely…

Seeing that E. has been introduced as part of anything to do with Scarlet, it would make sense for E. to be somebody that could be close to the events as they unfolded, while at the same time be close to Scarlet in a sense that E. would have had to have anything to do related to her… So I cue: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ebbik

Ebbik, as a whisper agent in the Inquest, tied to a facility bound to ‘way point research’ (sound familiar?). Would be an agent that would be able to have come close to any info coming in from the Inquest as it relates to the work done by Scarlet. As well as have info on Scarlet, from the Order, as it would aid him in furthering investigation.

@Draconder, but others also, what I do wonder about though, is how you felt with every part of LS1 being this One Big Epic fight, do it now for 2 weeks, and never see it back? Where at some point it (to me at least) felt like over the top, and in all honesty felt a sense of ‘urgency stress’ in a sense, as Epic fight lead to Epicer Fight, lead to Epicst Figth, led to Over 9000 Epicst fight, led to Off the Scale Epicst fight.

As opposed to a more gently approach (because yes, we only have 2 installements by now), where we are led towards great plots that can only lead to … an epic fight, obviously. But next to that I also feel like the approach is less that of the vigil (head in and fight), and more that of Priory and Whispers. Now obviously I too am looking forward to that big fight, but hopefully the pacing will be on a bit less steep angle, and there be moments of rest and contemplation in between.

Maybe a silly question by a light RP’er mostly on my own account… so LS is basically part of my RP… Why don’t you treat the machine as it is presented in the actual world of Tyria? And with that I obviously mean that you can not interact with it, so, it doesn’t show a vision… all you have to do then is simply ignore the vision, but you can ‘find’ the machine, speculate on it/research it, but you can not have a vision in it …

Or, if you want to, why not have the same vision? it almost shows the same thing that scarlet saw, the difference possibly because scarlet saw the vision with her being part of it (so her vision includes some of her actions and consequences as they relate to the vision). But as ‘all’ character that play the LS see the same vision, and seem to not be effected by it other than being in awe. Why couldn’t your character see it as well… It is as if you can’t be that ‘special snowflake’ because everybody is, but then you can’t experience what everybody does because ‘you are a special RP snowflake?’

Another way I thought of to include knowledge of it, is to consider a possible link between an other one of your characters (that did do the LS), or as a group acknowledge a link to such a character. And have you character or your group ‘be informed’ about certain affairs. Similar to how you as a player (and or You and the Biconics) seem to be informed by this E…

Or a combination of these, f/e you are informed about the vision and details about Q. you go there yourself, but find the machine inoperable… Or perhaps some NPC in town overheard some adventurers talk about a machine and ‘what the vision means’ as they seem to leave DryTop to the West… or, you name it…

To me it feels like the machine is so much part of the whole story line that it would be a shame to omit it from your own storyline, and it would be hard to just ignore a part of the map just because you know something about the location that your character can’t know, or wouldn’t know in relation to RP’ing. As can be seen above, I would have worked with it, or at least acknowledged it as a part of the world, as it is presented in said world, an inoperable impressive piece of technology…

ps. Obviously you can’t see beyond the vision and make up your own stuff, or have consequences that apparently our LS characters also didn’t have, nor can you (for now) assume it’s part of a recording… So all you have to do then is to acknowledge that once you stare that dragon in the eye, you break free, get removed… it’s easier though to just see it as it is in the actual world, inoperable, but clearly there in front of your face…

narwhalsbend.7059:

OP wanted lore regarding SB, not your speculation regarding the new LS.

As there isn’t much lore to it currently, other than that it spawn on top of the former temple of ages, where a strong connection realm*S* of the gods were. I thought I would let him know that there may be more lore to be revealed and how it may be related to magic as a whole on Tyria. Whether or not that is interesting to him is not for you to decide?

As I’m currently looking at the Ley Line vids, I find it really interesting how the portal information, both current and historic seem to provide at least the mayor rivers.

Though what seems to be the ‘two’ lines in the 2nd vid (watching in reverse order) may well be more of a ‘delta’. But as you might have noticed a lot of the mentioned things (in the second vid) do appear to align with the suggested lines. I may actually plot these things onto the map as well, in the coming days. I will leave making a vid about it to Psynch, but feel free to use our approach and data to add to your own.

What I like especially is that, even though apparently Versidia was inspired by your 1st vid, it’s the first time I see them, we seem to take a different approach to finding data-points. We used the link from the vine growth to waypoints, to then look at the early and more robust forms of teleportation in the form of portals, and also including GW1 data along these lines…

Ohw, about a link to the Dragons, while you didn’t seem to find them, look at where the following ‘Champions of Dragons’ spawn:
- Claw of Jormag – above the Central Transfer Chamber (which was where Primordus was previously (under ground))
- Shatterer – on top of the Runes of Surmia (which makes me doubt whether the portals were in Drascir or in Surmia … as far as my data points there go)
- Tequatl – who seems to be on top of a possible ley line, but at the same time also seems to be heading to the ‘Bloodstone Caves’ (which on the other side of the mountain has that broken ‘portal’ in Rata Pten.)

Hi there Versidia, I spent a few hours to create some things that could help further this research, and hello Psynch, it might help you too

First is a base map of the various things that seem to be of interest to this research. I think it is not yet complete, and hopefully people (or you and myself) will find more ‘portal’ locations, functional or not, to provide more reference points:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/arghore/Ley_Line_ResearchV101_Base_zps2c6697bc.jpg

The other one is an integration of the path the vines are taking, plus possible ley line routes. There are green (mine & versidia’s) and blue (versidia alternative) speculations build in.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/arghore/Ley_Line_SpeculationV201_zps27f12cbf.jpg

Now lets hope all these links work (files are ‘big’ 6-7mb) … ohw, and I included your name as well Versidia, seeing you provided a lot of the location, and started this interesting thread ^^

@Avariz, read the wiki again?
“When he ruled, there was only one kingdom that spanned at least through Ascalon and Lion’s Arch. " … now semantically you are right, but locationally you are apparently wrong…

Linking this thread as further hints to the breakdown of magic during the time of dragons. Mainly where the ‘Shadow Magic’ part, which seemingly didn’t have a spot in the breakdown in the OP, might have gone to:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/lore-behind-shadow-of-behemoth/first#content

The following thread is linked here so I don’t have to go and ‘refind’ it the next time I want to dive into a further analysis of the dragons: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/The-Eternal-Alchemy-The-Orbs-Theory/first#content

Well, the fact that this creature is related to Shadow does offer an interesting point of view. in this thread I tried to identify the (lego) block that make up magic on Tyria, by loosy relating the Gods to the Dragons: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Perspective-Dragons-Gods/first#content

What turned out at the end was that I was mainly left with:
1. Monk/White powers: which could correspond with the white orb.
2. Shadow Powers (formally assigned to Menzies – obviously my ‘theory’ in this thread pre-assumes the Gods are pretty much gone, and so is Menzies…) …

Then if now there is ‘perhaps’ an underworld Dragon that is linked to Shadow (I would like to add that the link between dragons & orbs is still somewhat ‘in limbo’ and view on it difference in regard to the scholar you talk to, the ‘perhaps’ is a huge one, I personally am of the opinion that there isn’t an underworld dragon, but: ). Or in a sense the powers over shadow, once linked to Menzies, have now manifested itself in the underworld. As part of the breakdown of magic on Tyria during the time of the Dragons.

Two things.
One, I agree with the first part of your analysis, also because the vision seems to indicate that the Dragons are awakened by the center. A flash of white goes towards each orb, just b4 it begins to stir.

Two, I do not agree with the role of the Pale Tree, making it a foe would erase the sylvari in being a Player Race, as it would make absolutely no sense for ‘good’ Sylvari to awaken after this conclusion is reached. Also, all the Sylvari in the world (including mine) would have their role in the world turn into some schizophrenic disposition… And beyond any doubt the Pale Tree seems to represent good

Your ‘theory’ could still work though, but not with the Pale Tree, yet there are other trees (at least one). So while the Pale Tree suffers from a case of ‘the Glint’, and as such clearly choose Tyria as it’s place of existence and the birthplace of her fruit, she does not seem to be bent on destroying that which gives her fruit the option to live.

Yet, here is where your theory then goes flat, because as stated these other trees (or at least the one) Does NOT manifest a dream. Meaning that the dream is not something that is linked to the Trees, but something linked to the Pale Tree specifically, either through it’s upbringing, or the location in which it grew.

Have any idea of a good free host for a map version of all this info? It could certainly help this thing along to a more visual representation, and from that quite possibly a further analysis…

Guess we are both somewhat right and both somewhat wrong:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/King_Doric
He is the first king of the united tribes of Humanity, so technically he was king of Orr, Kryta and that of Ascalon.

My guess is still that it will partially succeed, likely an agreement will be reached with the king along the lines of: The living can have the day to fight off the dragon spawn, but during the night we will continue to fight anything that thinks it can lay claims to this land.

The Ascalonian area will become like Dry Top, only there it will be the night that will bring a difference in events, as opposed to a sand storm.

As, for players that have been with GW2 since the early days, they will likely remember that it was said that night/day effects would take place in the game. Unfortunately upon release, the only changes that we saw were ‘sylvari effects’, ‘Ascalonian Weaponset’, and in some area’s various gfx effects (mainly Maguma areas and Grove).

Now I’m still not entirely sure if the Dry Top area uses some new technology, to make the area change, or whether it is just a sequence of well timed events that simply follow each other and at some point the ‘area-gfx’ change is tossed in as well…

Either way though, this agreement setup will make it possible to ‘recycle’ all the ghost content during the night, and give rise to various other events during the day. Partially reducing the workload of redoing the whole area. It would also reduce all the side effects/problems that people put forth. As well as finally managing to put true night/day effects into the game…

@Eravyn
You should look into the legend of the bloodstones, at one point the gods break it up and it is sealed with the blood of King Doric. He is the king of Kryta, and consequently anyone from his bloodline would be the king of Kryta (well the first in line, etc for all others). Also legend says that his bloodline is tasked with keeping the bloodstones secure and safe, so that it ‘can not’ be reassembled and as such used to give creatures in Tyria unlimited access to magic.

I do not think that stone in here throne room is a bloodstone, it is supposed to look like that though, and yes quite possibly even Divinities reach was designed by the humans to resemble the bloodstone inscription. But I see that more as a way of ‘propagandizing’ an historic relation of the Kingdom of Kryta, and the bloodline of King Doric with that of the legend of the bloodstones.

I personally explain this for myself as being the difference between magic and actual fire. See the original schools of magic are described as: Preservation, Destruction, Aggression, and Denial. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Magic

Fire magic is thus a visual representation of the Destruction/Aggression side of magic. Or in other words, there is no actual fire magic, it’s in a sense destruction magic shaped in an illusion of fire.

That /\ – and this is not Minecraft, implementing a system like that, while interesting in a world where rebuilding is fairly easy. Would be devastating for the game world, how many people do you think would be inclined to burn down LA just for the sake of it…

Put a picture up there of ‘The Realm of Torment’ as well… personally I think all of them represent the way ‘the world & magic’ works. While I have myself tried to link the breakdown of the Realm of Torment to the Vision, it seems to not be possible as a one on one…

But some of the overlap does make sense, f/e the center of the Realm of Torment holds the only piece of ‘true Tyria’. Aka. it’s an actual piece of Tyria… The other sides are not, and represent created realms. Pointing in the direction that the Gods, when creating the realm of Torment as a prison for Abaddon (or ‘terraforming’ an existing piece of the mists) they used the blue print of reality to do so…

Aka. the Center of the ‘machine’ represents the ‘physical world’. Not necessarily that the white orb is Tyria (it could be an orb just like the others, or represent the same thing). But that the center itself holds the physical world, and after one of the orbs clashes into it, it now influences said ‘physical world’.

I will have to agree with the OP in the sense that that felt fairly out of place, except if you were to be ‘blessed’ with Manic Depression, where mood swings in this order of magnitude are generally the giveaway for this kinds of illness…

I would constitute this to ‘pacing’ issues, and perhaps the short timespan available to realize these LS instalments. From my point of view going from one end of the emotional spectrum to another is almost always to raise an eyebrow… I think that if the initial reaction would have been anger, and Marjory were to run off killing (newly spawn) vines, to then not lead to any results, and thus reaching the conclusion we need to learn more, and Marjory decides to take her sister home first… Then all the emotional impact of Belinda’s death (of which ever magnitude) would have had an outlet, b4 reaching the next laughing bit. Now you are left with all this emotional baggage and the laughing bit feels entirely out of order…

Yet, if you look deeper into this issue, I seem to run into these things a bit more often, and part of me feels like sometimes Anet doesn’t take the world they created as serious. Now, true, it may be that they are just having a problem relaying humour into the game, and not all humour is for everybody…

Then again, a fair deal of the game seems to indeed be geared towards teens. As if in the early meetings it was concluded that GW2 might not survive based upon the numbers of GW1 ‘regulars’. And that other games would certainly draw away customers as well, and that older gamers were to turn their backs to gaming as family life started to take hold, combined with a sort okittennowledgement that drawing invested players away from WoW would be impossible… Thus, they would have to appeal to the younger audiences, as to yield more player influx. Seeing GW2 is not a subscription base, it’s also a ‘family friendly’ game (as in, after being put on the family computer there are no further monthly bills to pay).

Now while this is all true, I were to still wonder why trivializing situations, or making things more ‘kid-ly’ is doing anything for the actual game, nor might it be taking these younger players as serious… (btw. I’m now not so much talking about Taimi, but more in a general sense of the game as a whole)… these kids have to grow up in an adult world, and part of gaming is that it offers a fairly save place to be confronted with all the things that life can throw at you. Making a game ‘pre-teen friendly’ isn’t doing them any favour, actually, it send the wrong message about gaming as a whole…

And here we can go a layer deeper still. Gaming is trying to get a foothold as a serious past time, as well as gaming as a sport. At the same time there are still droves of people that consider gaming to be a ‘thing for kids’, not to be taken serious at all. And while GW2 in all it’s beauty seems to certainly want to convey a ‘games can be considered a form of art’. Various ‘pre-teen’ adaptations seem to convey, NOT to take the game serious, nor the world, which well, basically says: ‘these people that say games are for kids are totally right; see we make these games and we don’t take anything in it serious really’.

Now sure, to get a teen-approved-rating, there are certain things to consider, I think it’s something like ‘swearing, nudity/sexual acts, blood’. But it says nothing about taking your world and the events in it serious. Not wanting to ‘scare’ people with overly bright nights, making all the somewhat important characters an over the top personification of a single character trait. Having the need to ‘wisp’ away anything serious with making fun of it. It’s like treating kids for the sake of treating kids like kids, while there hasn’t been any kid in the world that didn’t just want to be taken serious, especially in the pre-teen and teen age…

Now I will acknowledge this is an inherent ‘problem’ with fantasy in general. Your fantasy might not be mine. And a lot of things in GW2 strike me in a sense that Anet takes a broad and light view of how serious the world should be, and which kinds of fantasy can have a place in it. But, there is a thin line here, if your world becomes a persiflage of itself, then it all just becomes one big joke, and who wants to be at the receiving end of a joke…

I’ve still not decided what it is, and it’s hard to give entirely exact examples of the things that I find over the top, or just out of order or sense. Maybe part of it has to do with learning how to implement certain things, and in hind sight there are hits and misses. Still though, I think being aware of this is important for GW2 as a game, and it wanting to be at the forefront of gaming development and maturation.

LOL

also, it might be unclear on that picture, but you can see the base of the vine dangling from under the ceiling.

now make funny jokes about it like everyone else on this thread >.>

Then are we sure it’s actually ‘the base’ of the vine? Maybe it’s showing that Mordremoth is male ?

met.9653:

McWolfy.5924:

I still cant see the place of a ranger in wvw

As long ranger got pet there never will be place for ranger in wvw

As soon as rangers accept that ‘the lone ranger’ approach isn’t realy the way to go in WvW, and they effectively team-up… i am sure that the cries for a nerf to bow-powerrangers will be all over this forum…

@Ashandar, start with the bolded headlines, almost each post deals with a singular ‘topic’ or ‘solution’ (if you will). It’s also not going anywhere, so you can read it all in your own time

It is growing through the center of the wall… please see early day wall construction of for example the China Wall… There are 2 lines of bricks used, and in the centre of them sand and gravel is compacted (and in the case of the China wall some corpses were allegedly buried in it as well) …

Then to cross the gap, usually timber is being used, which is then covered by masonry, the bottom/sides of the timberwork may or may not be left exposed, in this case it is not left exposed and covered at the sides by more masonry…

So in ‘reality’ you would find some stones and mortar pieces on the stairs, where the vine broke through… leaving out that bit of detail, while explaining things a bit more, doesn’t make this an entire mystery. At least if you have any knowledge of construction

@pdavis, apparently i didn’t make it clear enough that i liked the use of analogies… i merely said that using the right ones would be even better… and after that i merely explained what the reality of things was. Not so much to say ‘hey Anet you are wrong’ but to say: ‘Hey reader, if you didn’t know, this is how it works’…

On Darkmatter and the Higgsfield, darkmatter is (to me anyway) nothing more than an hypothesis. Nothing of yet is proven… And yes the Higgsfield is something that ‘may’ be proven and is baffling as a litter of kittens (aka. as a more amateuristic physics enthusiast im still trying to wrap my head around it). Still though the Higgsfield provides the possibility for matter to interact with gravity through the application of mass. In a fairly similar way as how the Ether apparently provides a medium through which magic can interact with the physical world. Hope you somewhat see the similarities…

Darkmatter on the other hand, well, it’s nothing like how ether would function, it’s just some elusive hypothesis that can be used to explain certain effects that are viewed. Now in that sense sure Ether may just be some hypothetical something that is used to explain certain behaviour of magic, and as Darkmatter might be proven wrong, Ether might also be proven wrong… Yet, due to the origin of Ether, from early day science, the possible existence of it as a medium to facilitate magic and it’s interaction with the physical world, resembles the Higgsfield much better than Darkmatter ever will.

And seeing that a lot of people wont understand exactly what darkmatter is (heck most scientist don’t even know, and quite possibly because it may not even exist). Using it doesn’t make things easier to understand, at least not ‘more easy’ like using the Higgsfield would…

As far as the geyser and water analogies, I liked the water analogy in regards to ley lines, actually I liked it so much that when geysers were used I pointed out that in CoE there might well ‘be’ a magic geyser. It’s just that I didn’t like how a geyser was said to ‘produce’/‘create’ water. As it was said to be different from ‘a river’ in that sense…

Actually if you remove all the ‘geyser’ references in that part of the explination, then Ley Lines are explained with a really good analogy!

Personally I hope he will get a proper grave, I would laugh hard though if he got a rich ornamented marble grave/tomb though.

R.I.P. Drooburt
How you gathered your fortune is unknown, but may you rest in it for all eternity.
or
A grave in honour of your great fortune, obviously brought about by great decision making, if only you were still alive to teach us

Obviously a Heroes Elixir would spawn and the base of his grave

Addition to Split up Group
I have been thinking a bit more about how the ‘split up group’ could work, as to provide interesting choices for a replay, as well as provide the LS participants with an interesting story to follow…

The answer was actually real simple, use the angles that the Orders Provide for the choices put forth the player. Looking at (at least the current) team members of DE2.0, it seems to me that Rox & Braham are more vigil, Marjory & Kasmeer are more Whispers, and Taimi would make a good Priory member. So ‘discussion’ about which course of action to take could be made interesting by having the group pitch in their views as well…

Then it would work somewhat like this:
1. A part of the story is lived as a whole group, this is the ‘base line’ of the story.
2. At some point something has be answered or action has to be taken. This leads to a question to the player as to whom to follow.
3A. This will lead to an answer by following approach A. (say Whispers)
3B. This will lead to an answer by following approach B. (say Priory)
The LS participants will go through both of these and don’t have a choice
4. The group comes together to discuss what has been learned or is the result of the actions. And proceed accordingly in another ‘base line’ part of the story.
5. At some point the story leads to another question/choice.
6A. This would be the course of action according to ‘whispers’
6B. This would be the course of action according to ‘vigil’
7. The group comes together to discuss…
etc… and so on…

As I read this over I think this would well work, now only the ‘endings’ of the stories would have to be changed, which is a bit of end dialog. For the LS obviously there is no choice, but a cinematic cliff-hanger like ending would do. The same can be done at the end of choice A. (leading into. Then the baseline would have a dialog inserted at the end, and the choice would lead to both these cinematics, to then proceed onwards. That way there is actually no content being thrown away, and only a tiny bit of content added, to create the choice feature for replay.

As long as the choices differ from approach each time that would be interesting. Now because there are only 3 approaches it would feel like there is always on approach that has already been taken (perhaps?), though the baseline in between might well obscure that enough. Also, as long as a Priory approach isn’t always going to a Library or Crypt, or any other place with a lot of dust, then these can be kept fresh.

So anyways, sounds like a viable approach to have the LS create choice driven replay value for alts and for new players. The whole would also make more sense as in relation to how the PS was experienced…

Personally I think that Becka above here has a good point. As well as some pointers towards the content of LS2, Dry Top is to stay, Karka Island if filled with events, The Jungle Wurm, Teq. Changes. Various other bits here and there.

But I also agree with Romek (OP), due to the lack of seasonal changes on the map, and the lack of over-arcing meta events changing states of entire maps, much of the world seems to be stagnant and ‘in limbo’.

My personal hope is that they will manage to come up with a season/weather system that will truly visually change maps where it makes sense (aka. consult a meteorologist (I hope I didn’t refer to a meteor expert there :P) to determine likely weather patterns for the planet.) To then use this to seasonally change maps over, and with it change event to match the season.

This could be accompanied with a 6 month cycle, which would imply that ‘wintersday in july’ would become canon (even though the event may not take place at all, as wintersday is a ‘new year’ festival, and the new years wintersday is the winter after Halloween, which is a yearly event). And could be explained by the planet having 2 ‘wobbles’ in one year (where earth only has 1). Seasons would now also somewhat make sense for a world wide game (aka. Australians would experience a Tyrian Winter during their winter, and one during their summer, same applies to the Northern halve of our Earth.) Not only day to day ‘events’ could change, but also the appearance of foe types, dragon spawn might follow seasonal changes, and so on…

Another system I hope for is one that manages to have Map-Over-Arcing events again, that could be linked to ‘The dragons, The Centaur, Any other Event Chain’ and in said system also have impact on Champions, Minor, Standard and Coordinated World Events. (these might even be seasonal influences as well). So everything would change based upon the action of the players and the seasons. Events in one map would have effect on neighbouring maps, and all on a ‘possible event’ type base. A visit to a map at one point would be truly and totally different from a visit a month later, for at least large parts of the game.

But this might also be considered to be just to much work … one can dream/hope though…

I think the right way of looking at the Gods is that they WERE real… history states that they left this world. And based upon the lore of The underworld, and The Realm of Balthazar (that could be accessed through the statues in the temple of ages), it is implied that they left to a realm of their own… While I am not entirely sure, I do think that we could at least encounter Grenth and Dhuum in some missions, and obviously we encountered Abaddon (again in a separate realm).

We do not know what happened to them there, are these realms similar to what the orbs represent? If the whole vision was to be taken as a real true thing, then surely the breakdown that could be seen in it, would also be true. Which could mean that when time shifted, the planes also shifted (to another breakdown) and with it the gods and their realms would just disappear to form another…

We do not know what avatars realy are, most of them though look like ‘ghosts’. With the ‘Ghosts are magical constructs’ aka. ghosts are nothing more than a magical hologram that can interact with the physical world. Then we might need to assume that avatars are of a similar make. Aka. they are a location bound spell or an hidden artefact that upon activation shows an avatar.

Now we know that the amount of avatars has been reduced over the last 1300y and even more so over the last 250y. There has been no interaction with the Gods either. So, that sort of implies that indeed these were spells or artefacts, some spells may have just dissolved as the Realms/Domains shifted from a setting that the Gods used, into a setting that allowed for the Dragons to awaken. Artefacts that are meant to support Avatars might have still functioned, at least for as long as there was magic available to replenish them after use.

With ley lines being able to shift locations, and be diverted like rivers, these artefacts in these location may not have enough refill to construct the avatar, which could have actually been experienced by the humans, as avatars were to show themselves less and less, and with greater and greater intervals, to a point where people no longer bothered to even go and look. This might also explain why in some areas (mainly to support the human personal story) there are still active avatars…

So, whats the deal now? are they real? Well they were real, just as much as the Dragons of today are real. But similar to how anyone on Tyria, roughly 700y ago would have considered Dwarfen texts mentioning Elder Dragons to be some sort of ‘Myth’. Any mentions ‘now’ of the Gods, (Who haven’t been seen since 1200y, and their avatars less and less since 250y.) will be considered as a Myth as well…

Those minor deities of us that ‘by now’ have been alive ‘in spirit’ for roughly 300y will know better though, the gods were real … but explaining that to someone that is just coming on the block, is like explaining ‘walk-mans’ were real to a kid born a few years ago…

@Ariella, I can see we just see things differently, so I can just go and repeat myself, and you as well, and we be in limbo like that until the end of time. Or, I guess, we will both have to wait and see, and then conclude if anymore information can sway the balance.

Though I will have to comment on that last bit: ‘Lets MAKE a huge …’ is what I wrote, so what you wrote there after is actually what I meant. And could! have been the reason for the NC to say yes to the alliance, which was what I was answering there

Even though I can see the legitimacy of the criticism to the proposal by the OP. I (as a sylvari PC) can not agree more. Actually, I was entirely surprized by that line ?!

Why would kasmeer (a human) try to arrange a meeting with the Pale Tree, esp. if I am amongst one of the highest placed Sylvari around. Yes, for all other races but Sylvari, the process makes as much sense as any, YET, for all Sylvari players it feels like complete bonkers!

But! We have to consider that Anet turned their method of story telling around, and had to rethink their method of delivery. I mean, we can all see the difference between LS1 and LS2. If you analyse carefully you might have noticed that our fellow groupmembers have grown too, most noticeably. Rox & Braham seem to represent a more Vigil approach, while Kasmeer & Marjory seem to represent an order of whispers approach, then it is Taimi and ‘the story’ that represent the Durmond Priory side of things. The PC, well that entirely depends on the choice the player made, but by this split up the writers can make sure that during the story, each of the characters is put into a spotlight, with something that aligns with their characters, and as such each player can feel their choice is Represented in the story…

Now obviously going this route was as much as a trial as LS1 was, and due to the critique might also have been under a harsher time constraint. Now seeing that LS2 seems to be well received by most of the community (except by a select few people that might be better off looking for a game that does suit their wants). ‘We’ have decided that this is a good way to go forward…

Then, obviously this is a good point of critique, we have found a format that does well for the community, the game and the story. Now it’s about adding the details that make it ‘make sense’ for the races, the prior choices, within each PS. Ways to give the player ‘agency’ over what is going on, even if the choices don’t matter to much for the story as a whole, or what is needed to complete content and don’t end up causing a lot of extra work now or down the road.

From my point of view it doesn’t seem like a lot of work to put the ‘make an appointment with the Pale Tree’ into the hands of the player. The story could have ended with a visit to one of the characters in the Pale Tree instance, explaining that the pale tree can’t see us right now, and that we will be notified when she can see us.

It might even have been a specific step, only put in for those players that have the Sylvari race, it makes a lot of sense that way. And more over, lets assume you played as a Norn first, and do a replay with a Sylvari, hey, the story changes. That’s nifty… While in all honesty nothing really changed, it just was made so that from a racial perspective it makes more sense…

These are the things we expect from a more PS oriented LS, even thought the LS is for every race, I think that if it’s not to much work and ultimately it doesn’t change much, but adds a lot to the agency in the players hands, or to ‘make sense’ for a race or an Order choice made earlier by the Player. The extra mile taken will pay off in appreciation for detail and diversity in regards to replay value… (obviously as long as these agency moments are divided up amongst races and orders in an equal fashion so that all can have a bit of cherry on top).

So yes, I agree entirely with your statement, yet, we ought to view this in a slightly different light, and hope that Anet will get comfortable enough with the choice for delivery and the method of implementation, that time is freed up to put these kinds of things in

Maybe it’s time to rename this thread into ‘The NC, Paletree and Mordremoth’ ? :P

While i am not a true fan of this cooouple. I had actually found a soulmate in drooburt, however short, guess some poor decision making on my part… :P

But I do see a need for them, and personally I hope they will bring in more of these ‘stand ins’. Why? Because from my point of view there are in a sense representing the impact of what happened to a lot of NPCs whom unfortunately can not all be featured.

They embody all the NPCs that can’t or don’t have a voice, and because they stand out so much, and people somewhat know them by now, they can give those people a voice. The people in Kessex that got displaced upon that giant tree revealing itself, that fled in horror to LA, only to find it under attack not long there after. To then also representing all those that fled from LA, being ‘somewhere’, to then too, be hit by the appearance of Mordremoth.

I mean, I read a lot of critism as to how various changes in the LS do not effect the actual world. And one of the best (and unfortunately currently only) ways to show how the ‘innocent’ world is effected, are these two. And now those aren’t good either?

At some points i can see why Anet at times just does what pleases them, regardless of the lashes (because no matter what they do there are always lashes to be had so it seems). In this regard i am reminded of this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFugRFKqjFg
(though i happen to know the chorus from a ‘featured by’)