Think i found “The Source” :
“The thing is, we can’t make it an either/or situation, and the devs feel that the best course is to change the armor. It would be nice to say “Change if you want” but that’s not feasible. So the Flamekissed Armor Skin will be reworked. And when it is, you guys are welcome to share your thoughts and to let Customer Support know what they can do for you. (No, “a new car and a couple of free pizzas” isn’t going to be on the table. )
I understand this is sort of a hot topic right now, but again, there’s nothing to lose by waiting for a look-see at the new armor set, and there may be something to gain! It’s certainly what I would do and I encourage you to think of doing the same.”and
“ou know, in looking at all the situations with players and their different needs, I really believe the best course here is to wait for the introduction of the replacement armor set. From what I’ve been told, it’s going to be really nice. Please keep in mind we’ve already made it clear that Customer Support will try to resolve the individual concerns that you may have once the armor change is made. Each of you may have slightly different situations. But since the armor is not out now, and because we will be happy to address your concern after you’ve had time to appraise the new set, doesn’t it make sense to wait and see?”
Post made by Gaile Gray in
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Flamekissed
Yeah, those are a couple of the posts I read after seeing the claim that everything was resolved. Good posts. They do not resolve some of the questions being asked.
Hmm, just went and reread the dev posts on the matter and they do not address all of the questions Arnath claims have been resolved.
So, if not Regina’s, et al, posts, what is the source ?
Refunds will come once the new skin is released, if you dont like the new skin contact customer support and be FULLY refunded.
You will get your old armor skin back.
Your refund will be gems, you spend real money on gems, you did NOT spend real money on the skin. You will never get your money back from purchasing gems.
Now take a deep breath, relax, everything will be fine you can stop panicking.
I am not panicking. I did not buy the armor. I am still curious about the source for your definitive statements.
So, source ?
You were heard, the situation has fully resolved itself, there is NOTHING more to discuss, you can complain all you want but they have already announced the solution. It is done, finished, final.
You wont get to keep the skin, you will be fully refunded, everything has been solved. Contact customer support when the new skin arrives and everything is perfect. There is literally nothing more to discuss.
So, if everything has been fully resolved….
Where are the refunds ? If it has been fully resolved, as opposed to being resolved at some unstated time in the future, the refunds would have been issued.
Will people who transmuted the new skin onto previously transmuted armors such as their old T3 human cultural, get that armor back, or will they get the original, pre T3 cultural, skin of the armor ? ANet has not commented on this question and yet it is resolved according to you. What is the resolution if you have access to information that ANet has not shared with anyone else ?
Will the refund be in gems for people who bought them for the sole purpose of buying the armor skin ? ANet has not given a solid answer on this, and yet you claim it is resolved. What is the resolution if you have access to information that ANet has not shared with anyone else ?
I am honestly curious as to how you have answers that ANet has not provided to anyone else. What is your source of information ?
I’ll take anything with fewer trenchcoats and buttcapes.
Agreed…
A incredibly stupid metaphor that dose not apply to this situation, they have done NOTHING illegal and NOTHING unethical.
Illegal, probably not, but probably depends on local laws where ANet is doing business. I do not know the laws of every state, province, nation, etc where GW2 is sold, do you ?
Unethical ? I think that claim can be supported. ANet advertised a product as having a certain utility and then removed that utility without refunding the purchase price. By advertising that gems could be used to purchase the new armor skin and then removing that advertised ability after accepting payment for those gems I think ANet may have acted in a fashion that could be arguably described as unethical.
In my opinion it is too early to say. How ANet addresses all of those adversely affected by this situation will determine the matter to me. I certainly don’t think that it is unethical for them to wait until after their staff get back from the holiday to implement a fix.
Legally they can do anything they want at any time with out any reason.
EULA are not necessarily legally binding. I agree with you for the most part otherwise.
And again there is the kill argument again. This is a PvE game. The goal is fluff, not killing.
There is more killing in PvE than in PvP. Killing monsters is not your goal in game but that does not necessarily hold true for others.
Check this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Will-it-happen-again/page/2#post3281636
Aperantly Anet can make a mistake according to Vayne but then why is it a mistake? Because there exist a general, or majority, consensus? But that does not exist according to Vayne. But that does not exist according to him. Or at least it can not be determent.
A majority or general consensus is not required for something to be a mistake. According to ANet the implementation of the skin was unintended. If everyone had loved it it would still have been a mistake (according to ANet), just a fortuitous one.
However now Anet in this case seem to have listened to the people of course it is a good thing that Anet does. While here the plee seemed to be Anet should not listen because there does not exist something like a general, or majority, consensus?
Attempting to please your customers, even if they do not represent a majority or general consensus is a good idea. There will be two sides to any issue however and the difficult part will likely be balancing the desires of one group against the other.
It really comes down to defending Anet for the sake of defending it. However that might be because of some blind love. Not judging about that, however it shows that it’s not just based on some logic. If Anet did exactly the opposite (like they did with the skins) and said they did listen to the complains we would see Vayne here defending that. And thats to bad because I don’t mind having a discussion with somebody who truly disagrees about something but it should at leased be driven by some logic and not by blind love.
(or a paycheck)
Its not defending ANet for the sake of defending ANet to point out mistaken assumptions or claims in arguments. If someone were to claim that the majority were happy with the video or with the armor based on such a tiny sample I would still question their claim. Personally I do not like ANet as a company in its current form. You speak of the a discussion based on logic (rather than blind love) and yet seem to be supporting people inventing numbers in order to support their position. Every time someone argues that a, “majority,” support X they are saying that at least 51% do so, and yet cannot support that number, and in fact are making the claim without access to the data needed to support it. Yeah, that is the logical side of the argument ; )
That just looking at a forum will not give you the factual numbers is correct but that does not mean that there are big group agreeing about a subject. And I am pretty sure the way they do the living story is one of them. Some post it here, some just ignore it, some wait for better times and some just leave the game, but indeed not everybody is active on the forum so it does not show the exact number, that however does not mean that then big groups of agreeing people don’t exist.
No one is claiming that big groups of people don’t exist here. If the claim was that a big group of people do not like “x” the statement would be fine. Claims of majority and/or general consensus, based on tiny samples taken without any controls are what is being disputed.
And there will also be people thats simply don’t like the game anymore. They can’t tell you why but they simply don’t like it and also leave. The reason why they don’t like it exist, even do they don’t know it themselfs.
If you they do not know why they left you and I certainly do not so attempting to in any way portray their departure as support for either side of the discussion is a bad idea.
A general consensus (like if every single person agrees) yeah that does not exist but thats then maybe something Vayne comes with to strengthen his point while it doesn’t because nobody says everybody agrees on one single point.
I am not really certain what this sentence means. It seems to be saying that Vayne was right in claiming that there is no general consensus measurable from a fraction of a tiny fraction of the player base on a medium whose implementation tends to attract negative view points.
The fact that it was a reskin wasn’t what people were complaining about.
Well, there were more than a few complaints about it being a reskin too.
But I agree with the rest of what you said.
I honestly hope that the people who made good faith purchases of gems specifically to buy the new armor skin can get their money refunded if they do not care for the revised form of the new skin when it comes out.
Even if ANet does not HAVE to offer a cash refund to those asking for such it would be a good idea to do so. Keeping a given customer’s ten bucks at the risk of losing future business is a bad idea. Even if the customer does eventually spend money on gems again there is a decent chance that his dissatisfaction will cost ANet more than the ten dollars. Remember that the customer asking for a refund is not trying to return some heavily used or damaged product that Anet cannot resell. We are talking about virtual tokens that Anet can produce at will.
For what it is worth, pursuing a credit card charge back for a product which you have not used (gems that exist in your “wallet” are unused), which you are willing to return, and which cannot be used for the purpose, advertised by the merchant, for which you purchased it is not fraudulent.
Remember that at the time those gems were purchased ANet advertised that they could be used to acquire the Flame Touched armor skin. Since they cannot actually be used for the advertised purpose the consumer does have grounds for a charge back.
1) By simple analogy, a representative part of the community that during the election for new President/government etc. is the one that actively takes part in the election, i.e. gives a vote. Your argument collapses since, if the one wants to voice their opinion with regards to some “actions”, he needs to act. Insufficient action would be that of passive acceptance, i.e. he bought the skin. The official website/forum is the place that is meant by the producers of the game to be the place where all the information regarding the game is published. Being in the game only does not guarantee you will learn everything concerning the game. A simple latin proverb describes the reasoning: ignorantia legis neminem excusat. It means: if you enter a game and are unaware of what happens within the body that describes the regulations of the game ( the website/forum where all the official updates are published, e.g. regarding the new armor , and you fail to comply therewith, you are breaking the law/rules.
Buying the skin is not insufficient action. Pulling out your credit card, going to the gem store interface, yada yada is far from passive. It is a more concrete means of demonstrating an opinion of a product than someone else saying, “I don’t like it,” or, “I already quit the game months ago but I would quit again over this !”
The election analogy does not work for the simple fact that buying a product is a “vote,” in a business relationship and financially supporting an action is taking at least as much action as saying that you don’t like the action. If I spend a million dollars to support an initiative in my state, but do not vote, and you vote against the initiative, whose action is more likely to further their position ? A simple American proverb covers the situation fairly well: Money talks, B.S. walks.
For what it is worth the official forum/website, for GW2, is NOT the (only) place that is meant by the producers of the game to be the place where all the information regarding the game is published. The developers frequently provide information about the game elsewhere instead of here.
2) Your mistake here flows from the first mistake that you made above, i.e. understanding the idea of active participation and following the official updates by the game producers. Another mistake is to deny the credibility of the only evidence we could use here. The evidence as given by the active participants of the community ( as explained above ) is the evidence one ought to not dub as “biased”. People who actually bother to voice their opinions on the official forums, and are heard, cannot be described as lacking credibility. Yes, they present their own opinions which it is difficult to measure ( the point you touch upon ), nevertheless, since they have been answered and admitted their relevance by the authorities ( ANet ), it is even more difficult to dub them irrelevant..
I do not describe them as lacking credibility. I fully credit that these responses indicate that there are at least a few dozen people who disliked the the addition of T3 Human cultural armor to the gem shop (I am one of the people who disliked it for that matter). Nor do I dub them irrelevant. I do however indicate that we do not have sufficient data to determine whether or not the response was almost unanimous or represented a majority. To use your election analogy, it would be like counting one box of votes in a Democrat dominated district of a state and deciding that it represented the almost unanimous majority view without ever touching the other boxes.
3) Look at 2) above. One point to be made here only. It is not only the people with “the gripe”. It is the people who want to take part in the game creation, bug-fixing, posting their ideas thereof etc. etc. Thus, it is wrong to assume that majority of them is biased towards the negative.
I did not claim that it was only people with a gripe.
I am sure that there are plenty of people attempting to take part in game creation, bug fixing, etc. Count the posts and I think that you will find more complaining. In general people who are happy with a game spend the time they have available for that game actually playing it.
I disagree with Vayne alot, but I have to agree with him here. Its hard to buy that you can come to a general, or majority, consensus based on the opinions of a very tiny fraction of the whole, particularly when using a medium (game forums) which tend to be biased to the negative as people happy with the game are like as not playing rather than dwelling on the forum.
It would be like going to a PETA rally to determine the general consensus on whether or not salads are better than burgers.
This. Unfortunately, Arenanet is just following what the community asks for. It’s not the company’s problem, trying to please the customers, the problem is that the customers are… well, don’t get me started.
The real problem is a minor section of the community cried and now another section of the community is starting to find out about it but only after Anet sided with the prior.
You are wrong at the very basis of your statement.
To begin with, the only representative part of the community is that which is active both in game and on the official forums. No one will force anyone to take active part. It is up to the interested parties to share their views, opinions and ideas. If the rest does not take part in the discussion on the official forums or in the game ( with whatever their motives may be ), then it is more than obvious they should not have anything to say with regards to some “minority crying”.
What is more, having in mind the above, it is a total mistake to say only a “minority cried”. The response was almost unanimous, and it is evidenced in the numerous topics, even the threads that included both sides of the argument were overwhelmed with the “dissatisfied” people. Hence, de facto, the majority “cried”, as you ironically stated.
Not to mention that ANet did admit that it was not the best idea to introduce a skin that is a “refined” version of a cultural armour, which in turned has been underlined on numerous occasions to be exclusive to appropriate races of Tyria. Therefore, it was, de facto, not a “cry” but a correct response on the overwhelming majority of the community.
To sum it up, you have no point here and posting such disrespectful and half-baked messages is wrong. Reconsider your behaviour before you ironically offend the majority that voices their opinions. Thanks.
There are a number of irregularities in the above post.
1) One need not be active on the forums in order to be a representative part of the community. Logging in to happily play, choosing to spend money on gems in order to purchase a new(ish) armor skin, and so on are all means of expressing an opinion on the game, its current state, and its direction.
2) The claim that the response was almost unanimous in opposition to the new skin is an assumption and so poorly supported by facts as to indicate a serious bias. If 100 people complained but 1000 bought the gem store armor and went back to playing the game then the majority of responses would be in favor of the new skin. Then again if 5,000 people saw the new skin an uninstalled and went on with their lives without posting their opinion on any game forums we would be back to the majority response being negative. We just do not know.
3) Game forums and the like tend to draw those with a gripe. People that are happy with the current direction of a game, the decisions of the developers, etc tend to remain in game playing. They express their opinion of the game by spending money on the game and/or spending time in it. As a result forums, particularly in general discussion sections, tend to be biased toward the negative. This does not mean that they represent a majority of the community unless the argument is that the player base is so very small that a few dozen (at most) individuals comprise more than 50%.
Scarlet is Trahearne. Or perhaps I should say that Trahearne is Scarlet. Taking on her form fulfills his need to be naughty without besmirching his impeccable reputation.
This game is not about out-DPSing you. It’s about out-flashing you.
So if one were to make the argument that the gem store armor is all less attractive than options available in game we would need to change the title of the thread to:
GW2 Becoming P2L (pay to lose).
So – last time I posted this thread was on page 3. We are now on page 8. Could they really not have noticed it all this time?
Its almost two in the morning during a period that is often paid time off in some industries. Not excusing a lack of response I just wonder if the people who can make a call on this are on their way to grandma’s house for turkey and pie.
That is your point of view, which I personally do not agree with. In order for a product to be competitive with a product that is already on the market, it has to carry certain qualities which include but are not limited to quality of execution, pricing, prestige ect. Do you believe Ferrari is concerned over Fiat putting out a new car model? Indeed there are people who would buy Fiat because they like the look, but those are not the majority of customers and that is simply not how economy works when put into practice. Different products for different customers: customer profiling. Cultural armors are limited in acquisition by not being available easily (gem store/low cost) and therefore are not in the same product category as other skins.
There are objective qualitative differences between a Ferrari and a Fiat. There are only subjective difference between armor skins. The majority of potential car buyers would buy the Fiat by the way as the Ferrari costs more than the majority of car buyers can/will spend. But the analogy is not particularly relevant because of the objective vs subjective element. The reality of the matter is that old skins that become more and more commonplace often become less and less prestigious in the process (if there can be said to be prestige in having something that can be purchased with real world money or by champ zerging for a relatively few hours).
You may not agree, but a customer who has enough gold/gems to buy either the T3 OR a new armor skin on the market but not both must choose between them. They are competing against each other for that expenditure. When speaking of something essentially defined by whether or not a particular customer likes the way it looks there is no objective way to assign greater likelihood of purchase to one over the other.
Cultural armors are easily available, depending on one’s definition of “easily.” Playing no risk, low difficulty content a couple of hours a day for a week (potentially less) or even two does not qualify as difficult in my opinion.
You are forgetting the key concepts here:
1) acquisition of cultural armor is very limited and therefore there is no chance of it ever becoming “vendor trash”.
Although technically I never vendored my cultural armor, I have not used it in many months due to finding other skins I liked better and due to the evolution of builds. Its not particularly difficult to replace but I don’t need the bank space at this time. Right now it exists solely to take up space until such a time as I decide to either salvage for those mods, or the devs make some pretty serious changes to the game.
2) Cultural being the most expensive set in game, still, will for a long time into the future guarantee it’s prestigious nature as an item limited to dedicated/long time players. There still is an influx of new players (majority of the ones my guild recruits are new players in this game), therefore these skins have all the conditions to retain their value (other than ANet selling them on TP).
Complaints of the open world being a ghost town other than in those areas where the current meta is focused are not too uncommon. I assume that anecdotal evidence such as your comment about new guild members and others saying the game seems empty should be taken with a grain of salt. I don’t deny that some people, perhaps even many, like the cultural armor skins though. Perception of value of a cosmetic item is often tied to that item’s rarity. The longer something exists the more commonplace it can become. The more commonplace a “prestige” cosmetic item is the less prestige it is likely to have in my experience.
3) although I do have to agree on your point about gold becoming more commonplace in this game as of late, I still see a huge amount of players struggling to reach a level of wealth where they could even afford to gear themselves properly. With so much gold sink in terms of new ascended crafting and the pressure to keep up with the gear treadmill this has had very little effect on the actual rarity of cultural armors. The only players I have ever seen wearing it were the ones that were dedicated to the game and earned it. My personal experience may differ from yours and that’s why we cannot find a common ground.
I remember when having twenty gold meant I felt rich in game. Now that is attainable with little effort in a single play session involving some of the least difficult content in the game.
As to rarity, there seem to be a lot of people claiming to be affected by the changes. Anecdotal I know so take both our comments on rarity with a grain of salt.
aaah okies she is meg turney and not felicia day. :p
thanks Vayne
If only I were 40 years younger…and richer…and better looking….lmao
O_O
horry kitten.
vayne, at what year did you come into existence in the earth realm?I was born in 62. Everyone looks too young for me these days.
LOL. If you were, “40 years younger,” you’d be eleven man. Not sure that she would be interested in doing that kind of time ; )
It would be my position that they all would be less prestigious, yes. But it would also be my position that it would be fair since they would be equally so.
And that was my position. That it was unfair because it was only done to human armor. If Anet is going to make changes of thsi sort they should be applied evenly across the full scope of player options.
I don’t really consider anything in game that you can buy with real money to have much in the way of prestige, nor anything that can be acquired by participating in a champion farm zerg for a relatively few hours. I certainly would not comment to that effect while interacting with someone in game who was proud of their new look. To each their own.
Ultimately the changes are unfair to human mages, not because it is now cheaper to buy human t3 light armor, even human mages can take advantage of that price reduction, but because their selection of armor did not increase to the same degree as is the case for other races. Had all t3 cultural armor received the same treatment I don’t think there would be a valid complaint other than, possibly, that separate armor skins for each race had merit (to some).
This is where we disagree and it is the same point I keep calling you out on, yet you claim to agree on. Decreasing the price of t3 human mage armor IS unfair to human mages because it reduces the prestige and rarity of t3 human mage armor, regardless of the fact that they themselves can buy the new armor.
Would that be your position if all races’ t3 cultural armor was changed ?
Anyone who says price reduction over time is a natural economic phenomenon inside of a game is downright silly. Commodity devaluation is a phenomenon that occurs because of several very specific market developments that force the price to drop lower.
1) Competition comes up with products that are objectively newer/better and therefore price reduction is the only way the company selling the product can stay competitive while working on their new big hit. This doesn’t happen in MMOs, there is no new cultural armor set, no competition that would be forcing the price down. There is just plain and obvious price fall, because ANet wants an easy and fast buck.
New armor options do not have to be cultural in order to be competition for existing cultural armor. New skins, in no small part because they are less common, are very much directly in competition with older/more common skins for the gold/gems of the purchasing public.
2) diminishing demand: as the item becomes “less cool” people stop wanting to buy it, so the price goes down in order to make some extra profit on those, who wanted it but could not afford before. This also does not happen in MMOs, because items don’t loose their “cool” appearance as there are no fashion fads, not to mention they are a display of status (items related to that tend to keep their prices high for very long times IRL).
This very much does occur in MMOs. Old, easily obtainable skins lose their status as they become commonplace. A cosmetic something that becomes commonplace often does lose its “cool” factor because such is often related to rarity and ease of acquisition. The amount of currency in circulation within the game has increased dramatically since launch and so something with a set price becomes more easily acquired and less rare. High priced clothing items rarely keep their full value over a period of more than a year in real life BTW.
I have yet to see an MMO where old, becoming commonplace as more and more people acquired them, skins did not lose some degree of their coolness factor. Some of the coolest most desirable weapon skins earlier on in GW1 became vendor trash later.
Also diminishing demand is inherent to such situations because there is a finite number of players, a finite demand for any given skin, and people are making that finite number smaller by purchasing it, resulting in fewer people who still want it. Unless the argument is being made that, unlike most MMOs a year post launch, the population is growing compared to launch, the demand is diminishing.
Can you point me to where you say it in that post? Because all I see is:
I agree that there is a reasonable concern with one race’s supposedly unique cultural armor going into the gemstore for other races to buy, but price reduction over time less so… The issue is not price reductions but unfair access to supposedly race specific skins.
That very part. I specifically state that there is a reasonable concern with the modification to, “one race’s,” armor. I then go on to describe the change’s to one race’s armor access as, “unfair.” Treating one race differently than all others is a concenr and is unfair.
I haven’t read your entire post history to verify that you don’t contradict yourself in a prior post, but at least in this post you seem to make the case that price reduction is not an important factor. Of course the wording “less so” is ambiguous but that is the impression I got, especially with the concluding sentence backing it up.
But anyways, since we seem to agree on everything but degree to an extent, there isn’t really much else to discuss. Whether it be price or exclusivity, this update is unfair to human mages.
In the vacuum that you assume it is certainly not a big deal (things go on sale all the time). However, I claim that it IS a big deal that there is a whopping 50%+ price reduction on a single race’s t3 armor, reducing the prestige of only that race’s armor.
And I agree that, as you say, “things go on sale all the time,” but that it is unfair for one race’s armor to get the price reduction (and be made available to other races) while all other cultural armors remain at full price and limited in access.
I don’t see that any argument that things can never go on sale or be permanently reduced in price can be considered reasonable, particularly as I have no doubt that anyone making such an argument would very likely be delighted to take advantage of a sale on something they wanted to purchase. How many people finding that something they want to buy in the store is on sale, or has been permanently marked down, insist on paying full price ?
Ultimately the changes are unfair to human mages, not because it is now cheaper to buy human t3 light armor, even human mages can take advantage of that price reduction, but because their selection of armor did not increase to the same degree as is the case for other races. Had all t3 cultural armor received the same treatment I don’t think there would be a valid complaint other than, possibly, that separate armor skins for each race had merit (to some).
Quoting the relevant portion of the post you quoted as I said almost exactly the same thing you are saying seemingly as counter my post (perhaps you were intending it to be taken as a sign of agreement ?)
I’m disagreeing with your assertion that price reduction is not a large factor as well as race exclusivity. In the vacuum that you assume it is certainly not a big deal (things go on sale all the time). However, I claim that it IS a big deal that there is a whopping 50%+ price reduction on a single race’s t3 armor, reducing the prestige of only that race’s armor. There are going to be a LOT more people running around in “human t3 armor” after this update, both because it is available to all races AND cheaper.
Of course in my opinion lack of race exclusivity is still by far the largest problem, and an insult to all humans.
I specifically make reference (on more than one occasion) to the unfairness of price reduction on one race’s cultural armor. The fair thing to do would be to extend the practice to all cultural armor or to remove the option for the one. What you consider, “a big deal,” (presumably a negative big deal) is exactly what I pointed out as being wrong with the situation. So again, you are agreeing with my point while claiming to disagree.
Putting them in the gem store is unacceptable, a thought and practice that should stop here and now.
They have been purchasable for real world money since launch. Why should it stop now if people have not been complaining about it for the last fourteen months ?
Just because the armor has been in game since launch doesn’t mean most people have had it since launch.
Indeed. Not particularly relevant to the point I made though as prices going down on things that have been around for a while is pretty common in not only games but life as well. People buy something today that will be reduced in price tomorrow all of the time.
I agree that there is a reasonable concern with one race’s supposedly unique cultural armor going into the gemstore for other races to buy, but price reduction over time less so. I mean, if transmutation stones had their price permanently reduced starting tomorrow would people be complaining about having paid the original price six months ago ? I doubt it (hmm, this is the internet so perhaps there would be some). The issue is not price reductions but unfair access to supposedly race specific skins.
The problem is not a price reduction. The problem is a price reduction on ONE race’s t3 armor while leaving the rest the same. Everything wrong with this update is about singling out human light armor wearers. The price reduction and loss of race exclusivity would not be so much of a problem if they were both applied fairly across ALL races and armor classes (which I doubt will ever happen).
Quoting the relevant portion of the post you quoted as I said almost exactly the same thing you are saying seemingly as counter my post (perhaps you were intending it to be taken as a sign of agreement ?)
one race’s supposedly unique cultural armor going into the gemstore for other races to buy…
…The issue is not price reductions but unfair access to supposedly race specific skins.
Just because the armor has been in game since launch doesn’t mean most people have had it since launch.
Indeed. Not particularly relevant to the point I made though as prices going down on things that have been around for a while is pretty common in not only games but life as well. People buy something today that will be reduced in price tomorrow all of the time.
I agree that there is a reasonable concern with one race’s supposedly unique cultural armor going into the gemstore for other races to buy, but price reduction over time less so. I mean, if transmutation stones had their price permanently reduced starting tomorrow would people be complaining about having paid the original price six months ago ? I doubt it (hmm, this is the internet so perhaps there would be some). The issue is not price reductions but unfair access to supposedly race specific skins.
Would you be happy, if after 6 years of schooling you finally get your degree and then all of a sudden people can pay $10 to say they got the same level of education as you without putting in any effort or time?
Not sure if the analogy holds up since people could always wave their credit card at the armor in question.
even if you did buy it previously, it would have cost 4x the amount of gems it now costs. so now it’s “hey, you can get it instantly at 1/4 the price and we’ve update the look.”
So a year after its release the price went down ? Thats a pretty common phenomenon.
I personally do not think that cultural armor should have been put in the gemstore for use by other races, but the complaints about people being able to buy the armor rather than earn it in game for human characters doesn’t really have much merit IMO.
If you want to see a really healthy forum, check Wildstar, i havent see a single bad comment for that game, and im pretty sure there are some out there but the fact that i havent see any it means that they are not many!
That is about as unhealthy as can be. There is not much worse for growth than a lack of negative commentary. Surround yourself with yes-men and suffer the consequences.
Would you be happy, if after 6 years of schooling you finally get your degree and then all of a sudden people can pay $10 to say they got the same level of education as you without putting in any effort or time?
Not sure if the analogy holds up since people could always wave their credit card at the armor in question.
Why couldn’t they make this fiery T3 Cultural armor something you could buy with gold?
They did. You can.
Here’s a truth: I am a gamer of average skill, yet I pretty much own in this game, I do the hardest content, yet I’m not good enough to defeat heroic SoO in WoW, and I am far from alone on that one. Why is that? Because this system is much less skilled base.
No offense sir but what you present is not a supported as truth or fact. Correlation does not imply causation. For all you, or we, know you are so very much more capable in GW2 than in WoW because your particular talents are more suited to this game than to WoW.
rolling a light armored human is entirely pointless now
Just to clarify, you are suggesting that the only reason people created human necros, mesmers, and eles was for one set of armor ?
I’m confused? People that have had tier 3 human cultural armor payed 119 gold for it. That’s the most expensive armor in the game. Now people can pay, what, 60ish gold for it? It’s not the discount I’m upset about… it’s the fact that the most prestigious armor in the game is now offered to everyone, not just humans, for gems. People who have tier 3 cultural armor have reason to complain. Not to mention, where is the Sylvari cultural armor for everyone? Where’s the Asura cultural armor for everyone? What about the Charr cultural armor?
And no, that is not wrong. You can’t say, “That is wrong” and leave it at that. Where’s your proof? As far as I know, not a SINGLE piece of armor has been added to the game without the use of the gemstore. Please come back with evidence.
Look up a few posts from yours. Armor pieces have been added to the game without the gemstore and they were listed in this thread before you posted.
I do not care for the idea of adding cultural armor to the gemstore but I am not sure that any armor set that could be purchased with real world money since its introduction qualifies as “prestigious.”
My take on the subject is pretty close to the exact opposite of the OP.
Maybe I am mistaken but Pay 2 Win to me means paying for what is essential endgame content. Two me the endgame in Guildwars2 would be the dressing up and looking fancy.
Pay to win is not, “paying for…endgame content,” its paying to win said content. If Pay to win was paying for endgame content then buying an expansion in a game like WoW would be pay to win.
Buying a expansion to unlock new content is extremely different then paying for that expansion then paying a little more for all the armor to be unlocked for you. When you play a game like World of Warcraft you do Heroic level raids for the gear. The gear makes you more powerful thus its the end game. In GW2 your grind gold for skin’s or now you pay real money for your end game item’s.
Ahh, you said pay for end game, not pay for end game items. My apologies for taking that too literally.
Still if one can provide any proof that gemstore skins are superior to in game skins the point might hold up. If not, and it is not possible to prove such, then one cannot pay to win with cosmetics.
Keep in mind also that GW2 has vertical progression so one could make the point that cosmetic horizontal progression is no longer the intended focus for endgame.
Maybe I am mistaken but Pay 2 Win to me means paying for what is essential endgame content. Two me the endgame in Guildwars2 would be the dressing up and looking fancy.
Pay to win is not, “paying for…endgame content,” its paying to win said content. If Pay to win was paying for endgame content then buying an expansion in a game like WoW would be pay to win.
I rather liked the video. Kinda fun, kinda weird.
With the game revolving around cosmetics and not armor its self adding these items to the Gem store in such large quantity’s essential makes the game P2W.
If you can provide proof that the gem store skins are superior in appearance to the skins available in game your point will have merit.
When does the day come that players understand that game content is virtual and not their property. Any company can change, delete, add or whatever their own Virtual Content at any time of the day. Users agreed to that as they signed up for the game or purchased it…
Perhaps on the same day that companies desiring those players to continue spending money on their product(s) recognize that behavior, even if it is legal, which alienates the customer is not necessarily the best option for achieving their desire.
I would rather see a DPS meter (in the OP’s expanded sense where it includes useful non-DPS statistics) where someone running a build that is not commonly recognized can demonstrate that they are capable of carrying their weight in a team than a situation where one is required to ping gear or build which is then compared to an assumption of the one true best for higher end content.
I may be missing something here but, is there a reason you cannot hand/send them a box ?
One of my first, if not my first (don’t remember for sure) dye drops was Abyssal.
one simple fact:
Gossamer cannot be farmed. (Not in the traditional sense)
She said she would be surprised if Goss goes up to 40+ silver per ONE PIECE off of this fact.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Supply is only half of the equation for setting a common value for an item. The one fact you mention is not sufficient to determine the outcome your friend describes. She may very well be correct, but not based on one fact.
If they were doing well, they would keep the game at 60 dollars and keep advertising. But nope, they drop it to 40% off and advertise to bring in more players so they will have more money.
If they have come to realize that on average the cash shop generates more income than box sales on a per account basis it would be foolish of them to NOT run a sale to draw in more people to be exposed to the cash shop.
Sometimes a price reduction can lead to increased revenue/profit.
Its a form of price differentiating, or whatever name by which you know the technique as. You sell it to the eager fans who would pay a higher price first to play the game earlier, than lower the prices to capture the not-so-eager potentials. Lets you milk every last penny out of sales.
The same with books. Do you really think the hardback version costs THAT much more to produce?
Exactly.
The technique works in many areas. Not just in trying to capture the not so eagers either. Some of your potential customers, who are every bit as eager as the initial buy ins, just cannot afford your release pricing. You need to be careful to not go to sale pricing too soon or you risk the possibility, if this becomes a known trend for your company, of “training” your potential release customers to wait for the sales. Then again you also do not want to wait too long to attempt to draw in the second wave of customers with sale prices as you risk the possibility of waning interest.
1) No sub fee.
2) I think the cash shop in GW2 is done very well.
3) Art
Sorry, can’t really come up with a 4 and 5.
If they were doing well, they would keep the game at 60 dollars and keep advertising. But nope, they drop it to 40% off and advertise to bring in more players so they will have more money.
If they have come to realize that on average the cash shop generates more income than box sales on a per account basis it would be foolish of them to NOT run a sale to draw in more people to be exposed to the cash shop.
Sometimes a price reduction can lead to increased revenue/profit.
(edited by Ashen.2907)
To those who are saying Anet advertised a game that was going to be one thing and ended up another…sure. They did. Because there were unforseen circumstances revolving around people not playing the game they advertised…Without gear progression of some kind, I believe this game would have failed. And how would that help those who now feel betrayed?
Well I suppose if we are going to just make up scenarios:
The switch probably came because a key player in the ANet/NCSoft hierarchy wanted to up his bonus so that he could get his new Ferrari made out of platinum instead of gold. The fastest selling MMO in history, quite sustainable with its original model, wasn’t going to pad his pockets enough so he pushed for WoW money figuring that if vertical progression works there it might generate just enough extra revenue here to finance his newly acquired taste for Faberge egg omelettes.