Guild Wars 2

In some MMOs silly character names might annoy me. In a game that doesn’t seem to aim for immersion, such as GW2, it doesnt bother me.

Vayne.8563:

I could go to ANY MMO, no exceptions, and find a dev quote that isn’t true a few months after it’s made.

Honest question:

Would those dev quotes you find include statements that essentially claim that the previous statement was never true ?

Treeline.3865:

You are not me, so obviously you don’t feel the same way. Surprise. Several players have stepped in here to say how disappointed they are, how they hate to see they can’t complete their collection anymore. Some people even sold their collection. But im overreacting when I see my collection and feel slapped, ok. It’s still how I feel about it. Teach yourself to accept other people feel different about things?

Describing someone not giving or selling you something to which you have no claim of entitlement in any way, metaphorically or literally, as a physical attack is hyperbole. Pretty much the definition of an overreaction. The fact that you feel that way does not make it not an overreaction. It just means that your feelings are an overreaction.

jayb.1329:

Ashen.2907:

jayb.1329:

so….you want the strongest gear possible and you want it to be easy to get.

sounds like the typical complainer on these forums

Actually sounds like what Anet said they wanted. Kind of why some people bought the game in the first place.

yea well as according to them exotics ended up being easier to get than they anticipated.

so sounds like it’s not what they wanted

They claimed that they wanted characters to have accumulated best stat gear by level 80. Now they claim that people getting best stat gear that soon was faster than intended.

Three possibilities:

1) The first statement was false, in which case they mislead players into buying the game on false pretenses.

2) The second one is false in which case they are outright lying now.

3) Both could be false in which case they both misled people into buying the game on false pretenses and are lying now.

If they had merely said, “although we originally intended for players to have best stat gear by level 80 we have since come to the realization that this will not work for the game or our business model,” perception of the matter might very well be different. At that point it would be a matter of changing expectations and adapting to the realities of a post launch game.

I can accept and forgive, even if I do not like it, a decision to back away from an earlier statement in order to save the game, or because the parent company mandates it, or something of the sort. What I cannot forgive or respect is a decision to go back on one’s word and then try to claim that the original statement never existed. Anet is right now claiming that they never intended what they previously stated they did intend.

Don’t urinate on my head and tell me its raining.

jayb.1329:

So you put several hundred hours into the game, beat every dungeon and most of the hard content……you sound skilled, so skilled in fact that you should be able to get ascended gear just like all the characters in the zerg train that you’re worried about.

There is no skill required to get ascended gear, merely grind and a task that is, for some unknown percentage of the player base, not playing the game.

jayb.1329:

please do quit the game.

everybody saying they’re going to quit…please just quit so nobody ever has to read your “i quit such and such months ago now i’ll quit again” posts or your “i’ll never spend another cent on this game” posts

No one has to read the, “I quit,” posts now, and yet you choose to do so.

Zanthrax.6538:

so why do you feel that prestigious item should be gainable within a month or less?

Is it not possible to buy legendaries on the TP ?

Can one not get lucky and get a precursor drop in your first level 80 world boss fight ?

What prestige is there to be had from an item in a game that can be bought with real world money or gotten through luck ?

I don’t consider legendaries to be prestige items, and Anet’s implementation leads me to believe that they don’t either.

jayb.1329:

so….you want the strongest gear possible and you want it to be easy to get.

sounds like the typical complainer on these forums

Actually sounds like what Anet said they wanted. Kind of why some people bought the game in the first place.

Hmm,

I was solo roaming in WvW a couple months ago when a group of five hostiles noticed me and started following. I led them into the water because I had spent a lot of time practicing underwater combat and had made a point of maxing my underwater gear. I hoped that my preparation would give me enough of an edge to survive the encounter. I managed to defeat three of the five in the initial encounter and put the fourth down while he and the fifth fled. The fifth got away though.

anzenketh.3759:

@Infernia.9847 you can be in top stat gear shortly after getting level 80 just by playing. Even now with ascended in the game.

For some people.

One of the more wordy uses of sarcasm (I hope) Ive seen.

Jatacid.3725:

If they didn’t have ascended gear, or even legendaries for that matter. EVERYone even casual players. Would complain about the lack of end game gearing.

This is false.

Jatacid.3725:

If Guild Wars 2 released with the Ascended tier in place, there wouldn’t be anyone complaining about it.

This is false.

Jatacid.3725:

Exotics just simply don’t cut it for that ’I’ve reached the last tier’ feeling.

For you perhaps.

Jatacid.3725:

They explicitly said they wouldn’t add tiers above this -

Source please.

Jatacid.3725:

Tell the devs what you want out of end game

We want there to not be an ascended tier. We want Anet to return to the original intent where grinding would be restricted to cosmetic items and characters would have max stat gear by level 80. Those complaints that you are complaining about (nice bit of hypocrisy there) are doing exactly what you claim…telling the devs what we want out of end game.

Daywolf.2630:

Yet no matter how easy it gets, even if a game just auto-gave players full crafting ability, the complaints will never stop, and devs will keep on listening to it.

It is very easy to drink cod liver oil. That doesn’t make it enjoyable.

The complaint is not that crafting needs to be easier, but rather that it is not enjoyable. Crafting is not being made easier to cater to those of us who do not like crafting for the simple fact that no amount of easier will make it palatable to us. We are not the target user of crafting. Just as PvP changes are not generally aimed at players who detest and are unwilling to participate in PvP so too is the evolution of crafting completely disconnected from those who detest crafting and are unwilling to participate in it.

If crafting is being made easier it is to cater to those who do want to partake of it but who do not want to have to spend large amounts of time and effort. In other words, if crafting is being made easier it is to cater to lazier crafters, not to those who are not going to use the crafting system.

Chickenshoes.6250:

Ashen.2907:

A new gear tier in WoW would not invalidate your existing gear if your play was restricted to preexisting content as is the case in GW2 with its new tier of gear and no new content designed around it.

A new gear tier in WoW sure would invalidate an old one in PvP or on a PvP server.

Now that I think of it, the same exact thing is true in GW2 with WvW. People with the new beatsticks will be beating your face in better.

Agreed regards to PvP. Even a minor advantage can make a significant difference there.

JMadFour.9730:

In every MMORPG I have ever played, going back to Everquest. Crafting is a boring tedious chore.

stand at a crafting station. Click the item in a menu. Watch the Progress Bar cycle. over and over. can’t do anything else while your items are crafting.

I always try crafting at first, and it always bores me so much and seems so tedious that I always just resign myself to gathering/salvaging and selling the gathered/salvaged materials to people who can put up with the tedium of MMORPG Crafting to make my money and using that money to buy my equipment or using dungeon drops.

thus, I’m disappointed greatly, when I am reading that in order to eventually get best-in-slot items in this Game, Legendary, and Ascended, I am going to be forced to level up Crafting.

Not sure why such things are being FORCED on the playerbase, a portion of which is most likely like me, and dislike crafting in general. I don’t feel you should be FORCED to partake in any particular portion of a MMORPG, be it PVP, Crafting, PVE, etc. if you don’t want to.

Exactly my sentiment on the matter.

Nokaru.7831:

A gear treadmill is more like how WoW released gear. Every six months to a year, a new tier of gear was released that was at least 14% more powerful than the best gear you could possibly obtain at that point. This included every single armor slot. It immediately invalidated what you owned, and it was necessary to obtain it because all the creatures of the new content were balanced around having this increase in power.

That is a gear treadmill. GW2 is not, although it is very grindy.

A new gear tier in WoW would not invalidate your existing gear if your play was restricted to preexisting content as is the case in GW2 with its new tier of gear and no new content designed around it.

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

I’m a casual player who plays a lot of hours, but I never grind. I just do what I think is fun, when I think it’s fun. Somehow, I get achievements, gold and karma…without grinding. I don’t know how. I just play the game.

I always found this post rather suspect.

Vayne.8563:

I do fine farming on my necro.

Ah, there we go. You do actually grind for materials.
Not that it wasn’t obvious before, but thank you for the open admission.

Sorry but you’re wrong. Just because I used a word, doesn’t mean I actually farm. What I do mean by this is that when I’m running an event with lots of people, I get lots of drops.

Now you can say that’s farming if you want…such as running the zone wide events that pop up, but I’m not actually running those events TO farm. I’m running those events because I find them fun.

Some people understand this sort of thing and some don’t.

My comment was that someone said you have to be on X character to farm. I get plenty of drops and kill plenty of stuff on my necro.

Why do I play my necro. Because it’s fun. Why do I do zone events, because I like them. They remind me of the only thing I liked about Rift.

It’s farming, without actually attempting to accumulate materials. I just do what I want, when I want.

If you are not attempting to accumulate materials it is not farming.

interesting (paraphrased)…

Vayne.8563:

just because I said I do something doesn’t mean that I actually do it.

OK…

IndigoSundown.5419:

Your desire to get things more quickly is conflicting with ANet’s desire to keep you around. And they control what goes into the game.

Which is unfortunate.

My goal is to get BiS gear and my preferred cosmetic options for weapon and armor quickly so that I can play the game for as many hours as possible with my character’s toys, all the while spending large amounts of money in the gem store. Anet’s decision to disallow the first makes the latter two unlikely.

Grats OP !

I literally laughed out loud at: “pretty much fact.”

“pretty much fact” = not a fact.

Vayne.8563:

Every show you watch on TV is television content, even if they never reply it. If I go see a show, that’s content, even if the show packs up and leaves.

Its a matter of tense. Something that has been removed from the game is not content, but it once was.

If the game no longer contains something then that something is no longer content of the game.

I wouldn’t say that the content is coming too fast, but I would say that it is going away too fast.

The basic concept of leader boards is to display the results of a competition. Hardcore play and competition means dedicating the time and effort needed to compete or complete tasks to a degree that less dedicated individuals cannot.

What would the point of hardcore play and competition be if the effort required to compete/complete tasks were reduced so as to make them more easily attained by the playerbase as a whole.

No offense OP, by definition asking for the tasks or competition to be made easier for you (or your friends) means that they are not, or were never, hardcore players. The paraphrased request, “please make X easier so that it doesn’t take as long or require as much effort,” is about as anti-hardcore as you can get.

Danikat.8537:

Am I wrong in thinking when Anet actually said that it referred ONLY to the lack of dedicated roles for professions? That there are no healer professions, or tanks or DPS. So you don’t pick your professions and then you’re locked into that role forevermore. If you want to hang back and focus on support one day, then switch to DPS the next you can.

I think that you must be mistaken because a dedicated role for a profession is a way that some people want to play. So if the phrase referred to only a lack of dedicated roles for professions it would have been self contradictory from the very beginning. The phrase could not have meant what you think it means because the game is specifically designed to contradict your meaning.

Vayne.8563:

The simplest analogy is that someone says they’re coming over and then, due to circumstances beyond their control, they don’t show up. I could take it personally…but is that actually reasonable? Does it help you or the other person?

Did you pay them to show up ? Did they make up for the attendance you paid for which they were “unable” to provide initially ? I am not sure that, “circumstances beyond their control,” really covers a conscious decision to not show up because those you have paid to show up decided that they could make more money by not doing so.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 1 did it perfectly, except that it was never a household name, was never going to be a household name. They did it great for an extreme minority of people, because most people who played Guild Wars 1 didn’t stay for any length of time. They tried it and went to WoW (like both my kids).

Now, with a bigger, more ambitious game and a bigger staff, they can’t do what they did eight years ago when GW 1 came out. The gaming industry was different, the cost of producing the game was different, the amount of competition was different.

If Guild Wars 1 came out today with better graphics, it probably wouldn’t have lasted long enough for a sequel to be produced.

For someone who calls others out for stating opinion as fact you do the same rather frequently.

What percentage of people who tried GW1 didn’t stay for any length of time ? You claim that it was at least 51%. I would love to see your data showing that most people who tried GW1 left it for WoW.

Of course GW1 was aimed at a small minority of people. So is WoW. The sum total of all MMO populations combined would be a small minority of people.

Vayne.8563:

You’re right from one perspective and wrong from another. The “kitten those players” line is just how you feel, not what they thought. Attributing that to then puts you in a position of a mind reader. You don’t know if it was hard or easy, if they felt bad or didn’t feel bad. I’m pretty sure they felt it had to be done. I’m also pretty sure there were factions arguing against it who lost. Those guys feel even worse.

He may have put himself into the position of mind reader, but so did you with this comment.

Vayne.8563:

The point is, Anet said some stuff in the years leading up to the game some of which was misunderstood and some of which might not have been communicated very well and some of it was said casually and ended up being seen as a promise.

And some things were promised or stated definitively and not delivered upon.

Vayne.8563:

And yes it was a kittenstorm. I get that. I know a lot of people who left that were major fans of the game. But I don’t think they were all that reasonable. Because they took a business decision personally.

I don’t think thakittens unreasonable for the people you mention to have left due to dissatisfaction with the game.

I also do not think that it is unreasonable to take personally a business decision that affects you personally.

MikaHR.1978:

morrolan.9608:

Vorch.2985:

Mike O’Brien:

“We’re left with a balancing act. Some progression is OK, but pushing players onto a gear treadmill isn’t OK and isn’t what the game is about. I don’t think [the ascended gear] invalidates the fundamental concept that GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game.”

Honestly, if WvW didn’t have PvE gear, there would be no issue, imo.

If they had given ascended gear exotic stats with the inclusion of infusions there would be no issue.

To be fair I don’t think Mike O’Brien was lying when he said it just like Colin wasn’t lying about the ‘fun’ element. But the fact is they panicked and have gone back on these statements and their original vision for the game. A vision that was used to market the game. Now they appear to have no overarching vision going forward.

A visions that made GW2 “fastest selling MMO in history” lets not forget that. It sold 3m till january and only 500k afterwards. Introducing gear treadmill did nothing for the game really.

Don’t most MMOs experience a severe drop off in sales after the first few months ?

Gobhoblin.7582:

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, you did have to grind to get the most power out of your skills in Guild Wars 1. They’ve changed it more recently after Guild Wars 2 was released, presumably because most people no longer play Guild Wars 1 to play Guild Wars 1. They play it to get cool stuff for Guild Wars 2.

But yeah, there was a ton of grind. People forget.

Ok – see the winky face on my post? On my planet, that usually means someone is joking. Calm down.

On the subject of grinding in GW1, maybe I am mis-remembering, but wasn’t all the grind cosmetic? Sure, they introduced the EotN titles that gave you a damage boost against certain beasties – but if I remember rightly they changed that after a massive outcry from the community?

Again, I’m probably looking back with rose-tinted specs, but I don’t remember a GW1 grind that wasn’t cosmetic or title related…no performance benefit, just pure kitten.

…which is why I loved the game. I have no strong ragey feelings about the grind for gear in GW2, other than a profound sense of disappointment.

Some of the PVE only skills tied to titles did provide a significant amount of power. They were easy mode approaches to powerful builds as top end builds without PVE only skills were capable of levels of performance at least comparable to PVE only builds.

In answer to the OP’s question: yes.

The ability to get off a treadmill does not mean that it is not a treadmill.

That said, I am not sure that GW2 has a treadmill. Some of Anet’s comments indicate that they are keeping the option open, but its possible that Ascended will be the final tier.

We will see.

Vayne.8563:

As yes, I have a friend who plays that. How are those content upgrades coming? My friend has done everything there is in that game bunch of times and keeps repeating content because there’s nothing else to do.

Yes, that’s a good choice. I’m not sure how grindy it is, I’ll have to ask. People who have been through the grind tend to forget about it.

Its getting temporary and permanent mini content upgrades, just not full zones and the like. Sounds familiar. GW2’s living story is on a more frequent schedule, but CO has been doing this approach since before GW2 launched.

and there is no grind.

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, you did have to grind to get the most power out of your skills in Guild Wars 1.

To clarify, grind only benefited a very small subset of the total number of skills in the game.

Vayne.8563:

If they do exist, you’ll be paying a whole lot of money not to grind, which is where I draw the line.

No, “if,” about it and you are mistaken about the cost. Champions Online. One of the common complaints is that there is so very little reason to subscribe (it is a hybrid business model).

Vayne.8563:

And you’re going to find a free to play MMO with less grinding?

They exist.

Unanimous.1486:

They already got your money.

What makes you think they’ll care if you leave?

I suppose it is a matter of gem purchases. At one point I was spending approximately a hundred dollars a month in the gem store…now I am not.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Healix.5819:

If 80 people are required, is Tequatl’s chest (not the bonus one) lootable more than once a day? If not, not enough people will show up after prime time, especially on the lower pop servers.

It is yes, Taco will have normal every time rewards (rewards for each 25% health interval you’re able to take him down) as well as a bonus daily reward roll you can also get for defeating him.

Very nice.

Xae Isareth.1364:

People don;t do those not because they don’t like hard content, but because those events give you nothing that makes you feel like you didn’t waste your time.

And tbh, I am expecting a raid boss with cosmetic raid rewards (if it drops a guild cape Im nolifing it until I get that), because there is a sense of fun and achievement in beating a challenge and getting rewarded handsomely for it.

Poor rewards and encounter design that was not particularly fun (regardless of difficulty) both contribute to encounters not being played.

I avoid Teq (and most of the world bosses for that matter), not because it is too difficult or not difficult enough, but rather because it is boring.

Duke Darkwood.4237:

That’s like saying a free gift for a large order isn’t free because you had to ppay for the order.

Or even Buy-One-Get-One deals. If an item is $20, and goes on a BOGO sale, does that mean you paid $10 for each of two items? Or does it mean you bought an item for $20, an then got a second one for free?

In actuality, you are paying for the things you ordered, and get something extra for free. (Whether you like it is up to you.)

We bought the game. When we bought this game, we were not buying our first birthday presents. We were buying a game. We were buying the chance to explore and save Tyria. Everything added post-release that is NOT a bugfix or balance fix is free. (Except Store items, obviously.)

The minipet is free. It is a free gift given to people who bought a game a year ago, but it is still free.

If it’s not free – tell me how much it cost. If you say “$60” (or your currency’s equivalent), then you bought a minipet that took a year to deliver and got a free game.

If it is free then it can be gained without any expenditure of currency. Can one have one of these minipets without giving Anet/NCsoft money ?

As to the, “we were not buying our first birthday presents,” part…are you sure about that ? Have you seen the posts by people who made a point of filling all of their character slots on day one, even buying extra slots, specifically for their first birthday presents ?

When you bought this game you bought everything that was and will be included in it that cannot be accessed without that purchase.

Personally I do not particularly care about the BD presents. I thought the GW1 approach was better, but I don’t actually use the minis much in either game. I do however want to point out the fallacy in a claim that X is free if you cannot have it without giving the company money.

Vayne.8563:

Everyone who bought the game

Exactly so. As I said, “everyone who spent money,” is pretty much the opposite of, “free.”

Peets.8529:

I think it is a good idea to reward players who play more.
If it is done automatically then those who play once a month have the same thing as someone who is dedicated to play each day.
So I don’t agree with you.

The thing is that time gating does not necessarily reward those who play more.

Someone who can play one hour per day can complete seven dailies and so get seven laurels per week.

Someone who can only play on Saturday, but who can play seven hours on that day, is, “dedicating,” the same number of hours to the game as the guy who plays every day…but gets only one laurel per week. The same amount of time spent playing, one seventh the rewards.

Dante.1508:

How is failing a lot something this game needs? I don’t get it at all.

Its the, “possibility,” of failure that is likely being referred to as needed, not the failure itself. Success means little if there was no significant possibility of failure.

Nike.2631:

This will be great… as long as it scales down cleanly, to offer a reasonable challenge to the five or so people that happen to show up once the novelty has worn off.

Honestly the scaling in for most open world events is pretty terrible – events that range from deathtraps to small groups up to snoozefests to full zergs is failing to hit the mark not just at both ends off the spectrum but over most of the range of possible player-turn-outs.

This was my thought as well.

…unless this is supposed to be the equivalent of a raid, intended for large groups only.

Vayne.8563:

On the other note, Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trinity because it had no true tanking. It just had healing. I played Guild Wars 1 for years without any tank at all.

GW1 did have true tanking, but not forced tanking. It was very possible to get by without a tank (or tanks) but it was also possible to have a tank (or tanks) in your party. The only thing that GW1 did not have for a tank is a taunt skill.

xephire.8324:

This game has the worst end game of gaming history………..

Nope. Try Champions Online (Cryptic/PWE) and you will retract your own words.

Oddly enough the example of the OP demonstrates to me why time gating is a bad idea.

Zypher.7609:

Ohh look another thread about the birthday gift. It is great you feel entitled enough to complain about a free item. Glad you had to make your own thread instead of commenting on the other ones.

“Play more, whine less.” – Zypher.7609

I agree with your point about creating a new thread for a topic that has been discussed to death in who knows how many other threads, but….

“…free item.”

Hmm. So this item is available without spending any money ? I am pretty sure that only people who have spent money on GW2 get the minipet. When there is a threshold of, “must spend at least X amount of money,” to get something it is by definition not free.

fellyn.5083:

Even more of a grind than what? Since they don’t exist right now you have no basis for comparison.

Ascended gear has existed for some time now. The addition of weapons, and eventually armor, is an expansion of an existing system not an entirely new one.

Sollith.3502:

I still say they need to make crafting a mini game: something like ddr/guitarhero/rockband style where you hit certain crafting skill buttons at the right time to craft stuff. The better the item, the faster it becomes and more “beats” are added.

What an interesting idea.

That was pretty horrible. I couldn’t even finish watching it.

Crafting.
Pets (in game, not real life).

Sarrs.4831:

On the other hand, my accessories are pink and my clothes are orange, and they clash horribly.

Accessorize with pearl and jet to get pink and orange to work well together.

Soja.5918:

“Very rarely” translates to “more or less the same chance you have at an exotic.”

Which is indeed very rare.

Yeah, a year in and I’ve not yet had an exotic weapon drop. Ive not had an exotic drop that I could use at all actually.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

zeromius.1604:

I think the real problem is that people…judge a game based on very specific factors that they consider to be important.

Doesn’t pretty much everyone judge something’s worth to them by those factors that are important to them ?

It would be pretty silly to try judging something’s worth to you based on factors that mean little or nothing to you.

“Hmm, I think that the Trailblazer is the car for me because it has four-wheel drive..which I do not need nor will I ever use….”

Nope, not every judges things on what’s important to them.

For example, the very most important RPG element I crave is immersion and Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have it at all. I realized it early on, decided it’s okay to play games without immersion and I’m having fun.

Now I could have easily gone the other way. I could have said this game has no immersion so it sucks. But it doesn’t suck, in spite having no immersion.

Some people are more adapatable or tolerant…some people attach themselves to certain criteria and they must have this criteria.

That’s why I’m often less jaded when it comes to watching movies than most of my friends. I don’t just judge a movie by my standards…I look at what the goal of the creators were and I judge at least in part of that.

Essentially, I don’t go to see Tombraider the Movie, and expect a deep and compelling drama.

Honest question:

Are you intentionally misrepresenting my statement or is it a case of misunderstanding?

Must be misunderstanding: I’m looking at this line:

“Doesn’t pretty much everyone judge something’s worth to them by those factors that are important to them ?”

I don’t. I just stuff on what they’re intended to be. That’s all I’m trying to say.

Note the part that says, “worth to them,” please. I am not making any statement about some sort of absolute value or worth to the user base as a whole. Also note that something being of little or no worth to one person because it is unimportant to them does not mean that it, “sucks,” merely that it doesn’t matter to them.

You give the example of immersion lacking in GW2. But you also state that you find GW2 to be fun. It seems that fun is one of those important factors for you. Would you continue to play and financially support GW2 if it was not fun for you ? I imagine not as you would be judging its worth to you by a factor that is important to you and would likely move on to find a game that you would enjoy.