Guild Wars 2

I finally decided to go fot the full set, since i gave up one ArenaNet adding the missing Armor Sets for PvE i liked any time soon, like certain Stalwart parts.

Well, i decided to go for it.

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

No Male Medium yet?

No, pretty close tho.

I actually want the Stalwart Shoulders, but i can’t seem to get ArenaNet convinced to add it as PvE armor (which is pretty silly, since PvE is way more about armor looks than competitive PvP, but well..).
So I’m not sure about spending the last 20g (+ 20g for head) on the cultural, even tho there is technically a common armor part in the game which i like more.

Rooster.8029:

…but this is just a way of brushing off the topic that they are the most OP class in the game, and the profession make it less fun for other professions to play the game. Any profession that can go in as a two man squad and hold an objective from over 20 attackers for a extended period of time obviously needs a nerf

He’s talking about nerfing Guardians and Warriors, right?

Sigil Help

sorrow.2364:

You started from a wrong incipit.
Exactly, which thief uses 2 Infiltrator’s Arrow to close a gap?
Do thieves regenerate initiative? Have them also traits other than skills?

The Arcrobatic traitline is absolutely awesome, it allow the thief who specs into to use a dodge almost every second and dodging is mobility. You didn’t took this into account.
Infiltrator’s Strike is on 3 initiative. It is more than enough to close a gap and leaves you with 9 initative, same as Heartseeker.

Mobility, also, not only means close a gap, but moving on the battlefield faster than others gaining positional advantage.
So escaping, roll backwards, dodges and so on are into the general definition of mobility.

Aw gawd.
Dodging is NOT mobility, it’s damage mitigation.
Slowly i realise why people are having problems with burst Thieves.

I realise that mobility is not only closing gaps, but also moving over the battlefield.
In fact my point was: Mobility isn’t only moving around the battlefield, it’s ALSO closing gaps.

And if you take the average, the Thief is exactly that, average.

Malicious.6742:

I usually win far point races against warris on foefire. I don’t know what you’re talking about. Thieves’ mobility is by far the very best in the game. Infiltrator’s Arrow is way too strong in terms of mobility even though it’s expensive.

Last time i checked mobility in a game based around combat isn’t measured in “who gets the fastest from point A to point B”, but overall (combat) performance.

What use is getting to point B very quickly, but not being able to do anything once you reach it (except in a racing game, where the goal IS in fact to reach point B, but again, GW 2 isn’t a racing game, it’s a combat based RPG)?

I’m sick of the argument “Thieves have great mobility, since their mobility moves are spammable”.
Outside of theory, thats just not happening.

So you close the gap with 2 Infiltrator Arrows to a enemy player.. and then?
You are out of Initative, done. Now you can’t run away with your “great mobility” (since reminder: you are out of Initiative), nor can you fight (since reminder: you are out of Initiative).
The enemy can now freely chop you down, great job Mr. Mobile.

While other classes can use their mobility moves and then fight to their fullest potential, since they are balanced around using specific skills in specific situations, and then having them on CD.

So a Thief CAN have great mobility, but then he has absolutely zero offense, besides his auto attack.
Or a Thief has great combat moves (stealthing, high burst dmg), but barely any mobility but long CD (~40s) Utility skills.

So over all, how is that great mobility?

A Thief can only do one thing at a time, since his skills have a shared Coold Downs, based on a ressource system called Initiative.

So either a Thief has great mobility, but can’t do anything with it, or great offensive abilities (high bursts), but thats it – or you take a overall look on the profession, and realise that Thieves are pretty crappy at everything if you take the average.

I can’t believe that such a luckluster profession is still called OP by some people.

Thieves are situational. Yes, they can be incredible good at something, but only if they put all their ressources in it – but then just change the situation by playing skillful, and you get a free kill on a silver plate.

So please stop believing a Thief can have a) great mobility, close a gap with a few Heartseeker or Infiltrator Arrows, and then b) kill somebody.
It’s either a or b. And if theres a gap to close, the Thief can’t effectively do anything in the first place. He can’t kill the enemy because there is a gap that has to be closed first (obvously). And while he can close the gap, he then couldn’t do anything afterwards, so whats the point?

Other classes on the other hand can effectively clode gaps AND then fight to their fullest potential. (I realise that I’m repeating myself at this point, but i kinda feels it’s necessary).

So who has the better Mobility after all?

The class with useless “great mobility”, or
the class with effectively used “average mobility”?

Escaping is another topic since we talk about combat, fighting, closing gaps, and not a run away contest.
Having the tools to close a gap and killing your enemy is more valuable than just being able to run away from your enemy anyway. I guess thats obvious.

//E:

Stin.9781:

Thiefs has best in combat mobility, thats true.
….
Infilrtators arrow drain so much innitiative, if you encounter somebody you wont be able to do basicly anything.

So you are saying that Thief has the best in combat mobility, but can’t use his best movement skills in combat, because then he can’t actually fight anymore.

I’m confused where the “best mobility” is then!?
Don’t tell me 50 second CD skills like Shadowstep are the Thieves great in combat mobility since.. well, it isn’t.

My suggestion is pretty simple.
Please ArenaNet, add the missing PvE armors into the game like the Stalwart Armor or the Tribal Armor.

I know it’s not high priority, but it really sucks for people who happen to like that skins.
Also it shouldn’t be all to hard to just add them to the loot tables.

Can we get any statement from ArenaNet regarding the Commando and Stalwart Armor for PvE please?

I wanna bump this. I think it’s kinda time we finally get access to this armor.

Ekove.4586:

RNG is necessary indeed, it adds a lot more dimension to the game. Saying it’s unfair and everyone should’ve gotten a precurser is utterly ridiculous because in that case they’d be worthless and nobody would care about getting them…I have multiple issues against this event:

1. The reward value range was huge, it’s between 20g and 300g…..I’d understand if the range was something like 20g-50g…you know some people are supposed to be luckier than others so it creates excitment when you are one of the few lucky people. But the difference between the lucky and unlucky people in this event was huge.

I don’t know where you got that numbers from, but I made around 1 gold after selling all my “rewards”.

A friend of mine did the event on multiple characters, being extremely lucky with the RNG every single time, he got nearly 800 gold.

So it’s not between 20 and 300 (which already would have been disgraceful), but 1 to 800.

So anyone, please tell me how it’s ok to give a RNG that much power, and how should i accept that someone got 800 times the reward i got, for doing the same content as i did?

And how should i ever be able to catch onto him? These lucky people would have to stop playing for years, leaving me behind playing every day to let me catch up, creating a even playing field again.

Because of one chest we both opened!

asobinin.5467:

RNG has its place, but I don’t think they should apply for epic gears. In Ultima Online, they implemented a guaranteed drop system (I think that’s what it was called). It’s basically an RNG that keeps improving the chances every time you kill a boss. So say, the 1st round you have like 5% chance for loot. Next time you kill the boss, your chance for loot is increased to 10%, and so on so forth, that eventually you will be guaranteed a drop (and at such time, your chance for loot will get reset). The point of this system is to keep the RNG, but reward players still for playing the content if they didn’t get the drop. It’s a bummer not to get the drop, but you didn’t feel bad because you knew your effort wasn’t wasted.

Such a good and easy system that it hurts my brain why ANet didn’t shipped the game with it as a core mechanic.
It’s simply a perfect fit for a game like GW2.

Mastruq.2463:

Myrdreth.6829:

Thanks for this thread, zzled. I feel the same. The happy feeling I got because we all defeated the ancient karka dissappeared rather fast after everyone posted about their rewards. My rewards were so disappointing, it’s not even funny anymore(light and medium armor for my Guardian. Haha.)

I dont even, so everything was ok, you were happy, but at the very end someone else got a shiny and you didnt? Well skritt, that attitude is why we cant have nice things.

Your theory seems to be fundamentally flawed.
How would having a different attitude given him a better reward?

I can’t see why you defend a system in which people a (very much) differently rewarded for doing the exact same thing?

And how is the wish for everybody getting nice things “the reason we can’t have nice things”?

Stinks like “i got high rewards for low effort and you got nothing, and i want to keep it that way, keeping me great, and you small”.

Well capitalist, that is the attitude why not everybody can have nice things, why we have a class society and people getting killed by war and diseases every day.

As i already wrote in the Lost Shores feedback thread, i fully agree.

My reward for the event after selling everything (since what i got was all useless to me) was less than 1 gold.
A friend of mine actually did the last stage of the event on 4 characters (he has four 80s) due to overflow servers being behind, joining in on people still doing the event via the join party members zone function, opening 4 chests – and he was extremely lucky, getting pretty much all the most valuable Precursors, including the Greatswords, and Dusk on two characters, making him around 600 – 800 gold (if you believe me, or if this story is true is absolutely irrelevent, it’s possible, and statistically actually very likely to happen with the numbers of players in mind).
While I’m very happy for him, I’m not so much for me.

Thats over sixhundred times my reward.

WHAT?

I always respected ArenaNet for being fair, and creating a even playing field for their players and customers, making skill and effort and only thing counting.

Now we have gambling boxes all over a Cash Shop, and random drops devaluating months of playing time (one or very few random drop(s) being worth more than you can acquire in months of playing, or even grinding).

Sorry ArenaNet, but thats not ANet, thats not Guild Wars, and thats not why I’m playing your games.
I already had that in every greedy cash shop free to play asia grinder i quit playing while i was waiting for this game to come out for five years.
While I’m far from comparing GW2 to one of those, it’s getting rapidly closer – and even the association turns me off the game.

Why should i put the effort down to “grind” another 3 months just to get the armor skin i want, when I’m already getting laughed at by people playing the game since 2 weeks, getting 100+ gold for doing nothing more, but much less than i did?

Where’s the achievement, the rewarding feeling for me when i finally get to this armor after all the hard work (which isn’t fun, i already have work when i NOT play, i don’t need to do that just to get this T3 armor skin also), when everybody and their dog already got it for doing nothing but playing the same event i did, and simply opening the same chest i did?

You managed to devaluate everything i, and many unlucky others, did, with the loot table of one chest.

Gratulations…

let’s see where this is going for me in GW2.

After playing GW for over 5 years, always having fun, and pretty much never feeling treated unfair (or at leats not much), it would be really sad to see GW2 dying for me personally, because there may just be no motivation left to put pointless effort into the game.
After all i kind of grew up with Guild Wars and ANet.

This is probably the first time i have to criticise you guys at ArenaNet majorly.
With everything else it was a case of “it’s their game, and their vision – so let’s see where they are going with it”.
But that’s not your guys vision. Thats not fun. It’s simply bad, and pure poison for the game and everything you stand for.
The easy way of RNG wins over a game once again as it seems…

/E:
The event was extremely fun, and one of the most exiting times i had in gaming, once the lagg was gone.
But as soon as i heard from precursor chest drops from guildmates, my heart stopped and i begun to worry.
As it turned out in the end, my worst expectations came true, overshadowing everything i have experienced in GW2 so far with pure negativity.

Not because it’s the end of the (GW2) world. But it may be the beginning of it, at least for me.

I can’t stand getting screwed over and over and over again by stupid RNG’s like in so many f2p’s before.
No random drop should overvalue months of playing – Period.

/E2:
This is not a case of “someone got something cool, and i didn’t”. I absolutely dislike the idea no matter if i “win” or “loose” in it.
What am i achieving by getting a super extreme valuable thing for doing nothing?
How is that fun?
And how is it fun to get only crap, while watching others getting rich for nothing?

While, as pointed out, RNG’s are necessary, you should never give them that much power.

Oroborous.2694:

My thoughts:
So… the Consortium invades the home of a race of undersea horrors, the karka, causing unknown damage.

The karka then retaliate by attacking what they perceive to be the source of the attack on them, Lion’s Arch.

Lion’s Arch then retaliates by deforesting a section of the island, destroying the karkas’ egg nests, the actual eggs, we slaughtering them indiscriminately, and the whole thing ends with us killing the most ancient member of their race.

And we’re the good guys?

Exactly how i felt through out the event.
Invading the island, cutting down the trees…

The end event on the other hand felt kinda awesome once the laggs were gone.
There was so much pain and hate for that creatures at this part, and if you tried to forget the invading part, it was a amazing event.

What i highly dislike on the other hand was the chest.

Really ArenaNet?

Do you know what made you big as company? Why people used to love you?
Because GW was about skill, fairness, hard work and fun.

Not about RNG’s devaluing months of playtime.
There were people earning 600+ Gold in the event.

That this is even a statistical possibility is ridiculous, that it actually happened countless times, a farce.

There are other working since head start to get stuff like the Tier 3 Cultural, which is ridiculously overpriced – sucks for the people just happened to like the skin, not the “prestige object”.

But now everbody playing for a week or so (enough time to get to 80) can buy every freaking item he wants in the game. All you need is to be lucky at a specific chest.
You don’t even have to like the Armor- on what else would you spend all that money on?

It’s ridiculous that some random drops devaluate MONTHS of playing, and even farming, and while being happy for my guild mates and co. who earned hundreds of gold, i feel highly punished for playing the game since the first beta.
Not because something was taken from me, but because what i was working towards to since the day i started the game (and checked the armors) was devaluated immensely, to a point where i don’t even know if i want to put any more work into the game.

Not because of “QQ i got nothing out of the chest”, but because i have seen what happened to to many games that went the route of RNG’s deciding everything, and I’m just not willing to experience that again.

“GZ, you got a lucky drop should never be” > than “Wow, you really worked hard for months to get this”.
Because whats the point to do the second then?

GZ on absolutely obliterating the even playing field ANet.

Giving some people 800 times or even more the rewards of what others got might actually be the worst decision you made with Guild Wars 2 so far.

While i agree with you, whats your conclusion on this?
Whats the message?

My guess is it’s balanced around warriors.

Freaking insane if you ask me.

Aktarus.5612:

reach the goal with orbs in hands.Or dont made the mobs/boss instant respawn.

How is there any need for a change if pretty much all even half decent teams have already managed to do it without any problems?

Go play CoD campaign or something, because i feel everything else will be.. to challenging for you.

A team needs coordination to beat difficult team content? Holy crap, thats new!

This generation of gamers truly is to dumb to click more than one button to solve a “riddle”.

Everything worked for me.

Be patient, give them time to reset and make sure you contribute.

Timmy.9371:

this mission does need to be re-done. Teamspeak is almost a must, I found myself screaming at pugs because they just dont communicate.

Which means your group was the problem.

Nothing wrong with the dungeon.

Oh look, this skill is slightly to strong, lets nerf it by, hmm… 50 %!

John Lucier.5486:

Asum.4960:

Ichishi.9613:

Shadow Refuge – 10/10 (after fix, best utility overall for thief and the only thief ability that can affect more than 5 allies)

Nope.

No AoE skill affects more than 5 people.

Dagger storm does

Dagger Strom is not an AoE by definition, but a sequenze of multiple projectiles being fired at enemies, threrefore multiple attacks.

If you want to test that, use Assassin Signet and tell me if it used one stack (for one skill aka. attack), or all of them and more (for multiple attacks).

Just like piercing shots, Dancing Daggers etc. aren’t AoE’s either, which should be pretty easy to understand once you write “Area of Effect” actually out.

These skills don’t affect a specific area (which is limited to 5 players in that area in GW2) but simply have effects affecting multiple enemies in a different fashion.

Ichishi.9613:

Shadow Refuge – 10/10 (after fix, best utility overall for thief and the only thief ability that can affect more than 5 allies)

Nope.

No AoE skill affects more than 5 people.

While i agree with your rating relation for the most part, i would reduce every single one by at least one point.

Except Shadowstep and Shadow Refuge there isn’t really anything “great” (or even “awesome”), which really has a impact.

Thats why i pretty much run Shadowstep, Shadow Refuge and the rather boring but comfortable (and pretty much necessary to keep up with other professions) Signet of Shadows.

Stiv.1820:

The problem for this guy specifically is he’s a ranger that can’t put away his pet. That should be addressed. You can’t tell me you have never C&D’d a ranger pet when you can’t get to the ranger himself due to him successfully kiting you with traps or whatever. If they had the option to dismiss them they would have a easier time vs thieves at a small cost.

And still that is no Thief issue, and should be discussed in the Ranger sub-forum.

I don’t know why everything is coming down on Thieves.
“My class has a problem/bug/is to weak, therefor we need to nerf Thieves.”
Wut?

The first problem here is that he didn’t even tried to come up with whats wrong from his side/with his class.
Why is it the sad truth that the first thing he did, was coming into the Thieves forum, blaming them to be broken, once again?

The pet discussion has to be moved to the Ranger forum as this forum is about Thieves, and i guess we are all sick of getting blamed for everything by now.

So as a request to everybody, please use your brain, before you use the Thief QQ bandwagon.
Thanks.

Ultravalefor.5038:

Stealth stomping prevents a downed Ranger from using their pet on the attacking thief.

Many times I have rallied in close battles or at least also downed my opponent by commanding my (very) hard hitting bird pets while downed. And even though the thief is still there, telling a pet to basic attack requires a selectable target. (they can’t swing at the air like so many thieves tell us to do)
F2 doesn’t require a target, but we can’t exactly control which direction our pets are facing at any time, downed or not.

Basically, stealth stomps remove the Ranger class’s only method of fighting back while downed. Our regular downed skills are trash—and probably are that way specifically because we can still use our pets.

If we are talking about weak downed skills now, Thief “wins” that competition, always.

Oldgrimm.8521:

now that a thief tries a bunker build, dealing less damage is imba?

ahahhaah

if a thief builds his character to assassinate imba again,

if a thief builds condition damage, another imba again

so, where should a thief stand?

i, myself, tried the pseudo-bunker thief and its fun, eventhough i cant kill fast, at least i can outlast them >.<

It doesn’t matter.

It’s a bandwagon. It has absolutely nothing to do with the class or it’s power.

People heard some Thief OP QQ, so as soon as they loose against one, they remember that, and blame their defeat on that instead of themselves.

They get pwned by a Warrior (a way stronger class than Thief), whatever, maybe next time i will do better.
They get pwned by a Mesmer (a way stronger class than Thief), whatever, maybe next time i will do better.
They get pwned by a Engeneer (a way stronger class than Thief), whatever, maybe next time i will do better.
…

They get pwned by a Thief, oh man, that class was OP right? I read something like that on the forums, i better join that.. “conversation”, telling them that i just got killed without any chance of countering.
I mean, i have no idea what the Thief did, but it sure is to strong since i lost against it.

So what your saying is, you have no idea how Thief works, and thats why you loose against them.
Therefor there is a problem with Thieves, and now they should be nerfed?

Seems legit.

stof.9341:

Maybe both players fall asleep for one minute each time the thief uses his stealth + heal skill?

We all know Jigglypuff is overpowered, but that sure ain’t a Thief problem!

yertle.5837:

as far as i know, the bug with this is that the trait for +12% damage at full adrenaline is reapplied for every pierce – so on 3rd hit it would be 36% or 40.5% bonus damage (not
sure if additive or multiplicative.) Either way, a lot more than intended.

He has 18372 HP before buffs, Thief has 10805 base + stealth skills which make up for that massive survivability gap.

IMHO backstab is fine, mug+cnd instant spike is too high.

So stealth is worth 8k HP now?

If i don’t want to play a BS glass cannon stealth Thief, can i trade my not used stealth options for 8k HP then?
No?

Well, i guess Thieves have to stick to stealthy glass cannons, using mug+cnd, then.

Also it’s not like Warriors have absolutely no defense besides the higher HP and Armor class.

But sure, let’s nerf Thieves, they have stealth, which apparently makes up for everything.

gamefreak.5673:

Asum.4960:

And again somebody who claims to know better what ArenaNet intended the Thief to be than ArenaNet themselves.

This is really getting old guys.

OT:

It’s a stupid idea. You want to take away a core mechanic of a class, and further the only defense it has.
Whats next? If a mesmer clone deals damage to a enemy, the mesmer can’t use any clones for 60 seconds?
Or if a Ele uses a ability, attunement swap goes on CD for 60 seconds?

It’s a bad suggestion with absolutely no thought behind it. Just after the motto of “let’s take random stuff away from the class i can’t handle”.

Illusions do not do damage though, that was removed since they used to hit hard. Unless you shatter them now that is for damage. I know what you mean, just that was a bad example was all.

*Phanstasm.

Jez..

And again somebody who claims to know better what ArenaNet intended the Thief to be than ArenaNet themselves.

This is really getting old guys.

OT:

It’s a stupid idea. You want to take away a core mechanic of a class, and further the only defense it has.
Whats next? If a mesmer clone deals damage to a enemy, the mesmer can’t use any clones for 60 seconds?
Or if a Ele uses a ability, attunement swap goes on CD for 60 seconds?

It’s a bad suggestion with absolutely no thought behind it. Just after the motto of “let’s take random stuff away from the class i can’t handle”.

Decided to go for the HotW boots + pants for now. Probably going for the T3 boots and pants once i have the money tho.

1. Shadowstep is a movement ability. It has nothing to do with stealth.

2. Depends on what you want to do. But for burst D/D + Shortbow, and for Con P/D + Shortbow is pretty much the only option right now.
You simply need the movement as Thief to do anything (mostly surviving) and Shortbow is the only way to get that. The Shadowstep from D/P isn’t all that great, and besides that, the weapon set offers nothing important D/D hasn’t, but is lacking a lot.

3. Thats the point of D/D. You need that Cloak and Dagger from your Dagger off hand.
With the right build, it allows you to stealth a lot.

4. It depends. Thief can’t really get any of the defensive stats high enough to really profit from it, which means you will barely live longer when going for Vit/Toughness, but you will loose out on a lot of dmg, which is why pretty much all Thieves are glass cannons. I would go for a little bit of both, ratio depending on your spec.
While toughness takes a good chunk of damage away from huge bursts, it doesn’t help with conditions or much damage over time in general, where you just need enough health too.
Generally i would say, get some vitality so you get at least 13k health and then try to get some toughness (maybe speccing into Shadow Arts a bit), together with ways to remove conditions frequently.
Btw., against the common opinion: Toughness = anti burst, Vitality = anti condition/over time dmg. But keep in mind that a huge dmg mitigation is worth nothing when you have no HP in the firt place, and a huge HP pool is worth nothing when you have no damage mitigation to keep it up.

Elthurien.8356:

I agree with this. The Thief class was supposed to be just that, a Thief. Not an Venomous Assassin or a Shadow-Jumping X-Man.

And where did you got this information from? Because it’s simply wrong.
ArenaNet came up with some archetypes they wanted to have in their game.
One of them was the Assassin. How they named that Archetype (after one single mechanic they gave him, Steal) doesn’t really matter and says nothing about what the profession actually does besides that mechanic.

Most of the classes actually got their mechanics from GW 1 professions, so the Elementalist became the Elementalist, the Mesmer the Mesmer, the Warrior the Warrior, the Ritualist the Engeneer (complete theme and name change, but they took the mechanics), the Ranger became the Ranger, the Necromancer the Necromancer, the Paragon kinda the Guardian, and suprise, the Assassin became the Thief.

On the topic:

I would love Fists (knuckles) or so as weapons, not as simply unarmed thing (which wouldnt work, since you need the weapon stats etc.).
Would make a cool dual wield weapon.

Who doesn’t wants to punch the target, just to stab them afterwards?

^ This.

You simply stole a non underwater skill.

Thanos.2970:

Balanced?

If you loose as Necro vs a Backstabber, you honetsly must be utterly awful at your class.

It’s like every second Necro ability and trait is a direct Thief counter.

And yes, Necro and Thief are my mains.

While i admire the effort, why do you even try to argue on this guys?
It’s obvious that all listed “problems” are fair and balanced game mechanics, and the QQ a simple butthurt case.
Btw. last time i checked, people could stomp while having stability, and even protection too on them. Now how OP is that?

Just be happy that Latinkuro.9420 has no say in balancing GW2, and never will have.

If you guys would stop using copyright music, i could watch your vids in my country, too…

No, people are just finally realizing how to counter a Thief.

That will continue, and if combined with further nerfs, we will end up in a pretty bad spot.

HF

Aleth.9630:

You’re just…bad if you die to that combo without major CDs.
Immobilized? SB#5 or Shadowstep or Roll for Initiative. You are not using any of those?
Then you should have expected to be killed by that burst anytime.

It’s funny, thats what i think everytime i read a Backstab QQ thread.

Lordryux.9785:

@Asum ur so worried about ur sarcastic remarks ur missing the point that thier are other weapon sets that are just as effective obviously open ur eyes >.>

I play backstab Thief since Beta 1 because i think it’s fun and i like the theme and playstyle of it, not because i magically knew that it would come out to be effective.
(A stealthy killer which assassinates people out of the shadows? Heall yeah!)

That there are (very few) other builds for Thief doesn’t mean we need to dumb down one after another to satisfy some bad QQ’ers, who won’t stop anyway.

There was no backstab QQ when Pistol Whip was viable, then it got nerfed to a point where nobody (rightfully so) uses it anymore. And now we have another build that stands out.

But instead of buffing the other builds and weapons in line of the good one, we destroy the next one. And then?
Right, we continue, and continue, and continue.

I played to many games, and saw that happen to many times.

Such decisions are not about bias or QQ, they are about experience and knowledge about balance.

And the raw numbers show a different story than this ridiculous QQ threads.
But it doesn’t matter what you say anyway, how many facts you list, since they only want Thief “to be nerfed into the ground” anyway, since they lost to a few that where simply better then they are.

Lordryux.9785:

eithier or .. backstab is getting nerfed deal with it find a new build test sum new weapon sets w.e u have to do .. just forget about backstab lmao its not really needed to kill anything can go P/D and still burst some 1 down quickly >.>

Yes, let’s destroy valid builds for no reason at all. Why? Because it’s fun!

I think next we should take away Elementalists attunement swapping (and they choose one when making their char), and then we take away Engeneer kit’s, because really, they can just forget about kits lmao. It’s not really needed to kill anything, they can go Rifle and still burst some one down quickly.

I heard these Phantasms are phantastic.. aw come on, get rid of them too.

EasymodeX.4062:

It’s balanced when you die to a 2s channel followed by a burst after being CC’d.

It’s not balanced when you die to a 0.3s burst straight up.

If someone can press Venom, Sigil, CnD, Steal, Walk around the target, backstab, HS, AA 1-2 times and stomp you in 0,3 seconds, then he probably deserves the kill, don’t you think (not that it is possible, but just saying, pretty impressive)?!

This “discussion” about backstab being OP is getting more and more ridiculous every day.

Next week: Thief killed me in -10 seconds.
In two weeks: I was dead for 10 minutes before the Thief that killed me even joined WvW.

But hey, i feel ya – time travel IS a dangerous thing!

Djinn.7213:

Dear lord, you guys can’t argue anything.

Yes, thieves will get hit while on stealth, yes people will use aoe, but good thieves? Good thieves won’t get it by it.

Which is as much as an argument as:

Yes, Thieves can avoid AoE’s while in stealth, yes, they still can dodge, but good players?
Good players will still hit them.

Kindergarden arguments, really.

akamon.2769:

thanks for all this work! sigils can be quite confusing.
here’s a quick question on the stackign sigils – you mentioned that in dual wielding, the MH sigil takes precedence. so i assume this is also the case for weapon sets as well? i.e. for e.g.’s sake, i have 3 on stack sigils. first weapon set MH, first weapon set OH and then second weapon set 2H. will only the sigil on the first MH stack?

Thanks that you appreciate it.
Stacking and charging Sigils are quite tricky, i agree.
In the situation you are describing, still the main hand of the first active weapon set gets the stacks. The second weapon set doesn’t count in stats or sigils, until you switch to it.
If stacks of one Sigil are already active, no other stacking Sigil will count unless you get downed or log out to remove the old, different stacks.

If all 3 Stack Sigils on your weapons are the same, you will get 2 stacks while your dual wield weapon set is active per kill, and 1 stack for your two handed weapon when it’s active, which will still cap at 25 stacks.

Tulisin.6945:

Asum.4960:

1. Stacking of Sigils:
- Stat Bonuses only work for the weapon skills acquired by the weapon the Sigil is on.
[i]Ex.: 2 Sigil of Force [+5 % Damage] give +5 % Damage for all Skills, not +10 %, while one Sigil of Force gives only +5 % damage for the skills acquired by the weapon it’s on.

My testing does not support this. For instance, use S/D with “steady” weapons against a dummy in sPvP. Grab 1 dagger and 2 swords. Empty dagger + empty sword as control group, test, say, C&D with whatever stats you have until you establish a baseline damage. Swap in a sword with Sigil of Force and repeat. You’ll see C&D’s damage increase even though C&D is a dagger skill, not a sword skill, and the only thing that changed was the sword’s sigil.

Since you already got the numbers, what happens if you put another Force Sigil on the Dagger?

Goes it up on 10 % increased dmg, or is it simply not stacking and staying at a 5 % increase?

Tulisin.6945:

Asum.4960:

Tulisin.6945:

Instead of streamlining, I’d rather see more synergy added to areas that are lacking. Back stab, for instance, should have some kind of condition component.

I don’t get why everybody is just hammering on Backstab (or Daggers in general, except LDB) for not having con damage, but not on the con dmg attacks for being terrible for direct dmg Thieves.

I didn’t say condition damage, I said conditions. The majority of the conditions thieves work with are non-damaging (control) conditions. Conditions like these reward skill and create synergy without necessarily rewarding condition damage stacking.

Well, then i would prefer the term CC (crowd control) over condition, which describes bleed, burn or poison most of the time.

Hey fellow Thieves, in response to this Thread i sat down for some hours to clarify the Sigil funktions.

Feel free to check it out:

Sigil clarification

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