Guild Wars 2

Antiriad.7160:

Hm, quoting doesn’t seem to work, so @previous poster who said toughness helps, well.. I stacked toughness gear on my elementalist and still got 2-shotted by a warrior (1 hit being 14k damage), so, yeah..

Well, Warriors have way higher burst than Thieves, so, yeah… they pretty much 2 shot everything.

But Elementalists and Thieves are the squishiests classes anyway, and it doesn’t really matter how much defense we get, the incredible low base health will screw us anyway.

The only class able to excape the low base health trap is the Guardian with all his defenive spells.

The stealth and mobility of Thieves, and the healing, mobility and other defensive abilities (mist form etc) of the Elementalist just aren’t enough in the long term, at least not versus skilled players who know what which abilities do, and how to avoid/counter them.

If they further nerf Elementalists or Thieves, they will just get useless.

If they take away the damage of the Thief, then whats left?
Would be like taking attunement swapping from Elementalists.

If they do anything of that, what would be the reason to play any of those natural squishy classes?

BranGor.8715:

On 3200 armor backstab will hit for 3855 damage.
This plus assasin signet + using might sigil, 13k is normal.

And still they complain about Backstab doing ridiculous damage, asking to nerf it.

Backstab really does only subpar dmg. If they want me to take their complains serious, they should at least learn which skill does the dmg.

Ianervan.3415:

Nice try. Almost full exotic. 20k damage in 1,5 sec is 20k damage. Try that on some other class.

Ok… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJkTMqJOWvU

Ianervan.3415:

I hope they nerf Thief to the ground

At least we know now what you actually want.
You don’t ask for balance, you ask for dumping down a class you can’t handle.
Thanks.

Thief? You mean the profession that used to be average for the first month or so? Didn’t know it was still in the game.

(I know, im ahead in time, just preparing)

“Lanervan: Thief needs 1,5sec to kill someone in full berserker gear. From distance. From stealth.
All other professions need 10+ seconds to kill someone in full berserker gear. Guardians and Warriors can hit hard, but they still need to travel the distance.”

(Quote broken again)

What drugs do you take? I mean really, give me some, because being a Thief must be pretty awesome in your world.

Thief killing from distance? In 1,5 seconds (exactly?)?
With which weapon? Which abilities?

All other classes need at least 10 seconds to kill?
So after you made the effort to build a character of each class, trying to get the most dmg out of them, every class took you at least 10 seconds to kill somebody with the highest possible damage, compared to the Thief who needs 1,5 seconds?

Well i gotta tell you, you suck as hell at making builds for everything but Thief.

First of, nearly every class (except Necromancer) has the same or a higher burst than Thieves. That said, most of them have accces to more utility, mobility, way more Health and/or way more toughness while doing so.

Not even talking about range so far.
Thief can only burst in melee. I wouldn’t even call it melee, it’s ridiculous how close you have to be to hit Cloack and Dagger, you basically have to be “inside” or your target to stab them.

Thats actually the reason Thieves combine it with shadow steps. Not because it’s OP, but because it’s pretty much the only way to hit a moving target with it.

So DPS Engeneers have more health than the Thief, more utility, more CC, and burst harder than the Thieves on kiss range, at a range of 1200.
That’s as far away as it can get.
The Thief btw, in comparison, has only one skill on one weapon that even has that range. Not thinking about the managing of stealth, shadow stepping into melee, moving behind a moving target, and casting the backstab.

Warrior is pretty upfront. He has to be in melee too, yes.
But with twice as much Health, the highest armor class, tons of buffs and gap closers it’s not much of a deal, huh?
2-4 Buttons and the enemy is dead (takes around 2 seconds), while taking close to no dmg.
Kind of crazy, compared to the effort the Thief has to make to possibly kill a target, but only if they are glass cannon and to dumb to move, right?

Guardians?
I don’t even want to talk about them, and i don’t even engage them anymore in WvW and just run away, since i know, if they are ANY good, then i won’t do any dmg to them, while they burst me down in 5 seconds (my backstab on the average guardian takes around 1/20 of their health).

I could continue that list with all classes ( i really could, it’s ridiculous how much i could tell, even for the ones already mentioned – talking Mesmers, spawning 3 illusions next to me, next thing i know is I got insta killed, watching how the mesmer walks up to me from a mile to stomp me) but I’m just sick of justifying playing Thief, while i already feel like playing a underpowered profession since the first beta event (If it wouldn’t be for the Theme of the class, i wouldn’t play it. All it has is average burst in melee only, with stealth as the very only surviving tool, while other classes deliver higher bursts, higher sustained dmg, higher mobility, higher CC, higher support, higher control. Of course not all at once and on every class, but Thief is the best at nothing [while at least still good at bursting] but the worst at a horrible high amount of things).

But it turned out that a Assassin can actually do some dmg vs. baddies, and the cryfest began, like in every freaking game that came before.
A class that is good versus baddies, and baddies only, but very effective against them has it always the worst, since the baddies are always the ones crying the loudest.

Oh ya, and i wanted to show you how much dmg a Thief does against players with toughness.

But no matter what, I’m sure you approve it as OP, since it’s a Thief skill.

(And dear Thieves, please stop posting pictures of your fully level 80 exotic geared Thief critting a upscaled naked level 1 in WvW for 15k. I’m sick of reading we could do that much dmg, while the reality is just sad)

ehtom.5047:

Every fight I would literally click steal, click death blossom 3 times, roll away use my initiative util, shadowstep, spam some dodge for caltrops then spam death blossom again. Nothing survived

And then you meet players who are able to click one button, a condition removal.

Poof.

So much skill needed to counter Thieves…

@Wilhelmryan.9203:

Because LoL players don’t qq about every Assassin that ever came, and will come out.
(Yes, LoL community is probably the worst thing on earth and they cry about everything, but hell, these poor Assassins)

It’s really not about terms, the point is simply that you need a deeper understanding of the game/class/character to counter Assassins/carries/junglers/gankers, than a support or a tank etc.

Everything has a trade off, even more so in GW2. And the balance is in a pretty good state.
But nobody can expect to win a 1vs1 as Support vs a Carry, or as Carry vs a Assassin, or as Assassin vs a Tank… and so on.

But you need more skill to get away from a squishy high dps character, since they kill fast, while they are easier to kill than a “Tank” on the other hand.

And while a guardian can play baseball with a whole Zerg, a Thief can play crush the solo glass cannon.

Considering professions like Warrior and Engeneer already having more dmg than the Thief, and that with twice as much HP and more Armor on the one hand, and a range of 1200 on the other, i think the Thief is generally just in the right place with his average – high melee dmg + subpar surviveability only coming through stealth, which AoE classes (basically every class) can just bypass if they are good players.

Nerfing any more core abilities (weapons) will result in a underpowered Thief in the pro scene, while baddies will still be bad.

/E:

I remember characters like Shaco in LoL, a stealthy backstabbing assassin, who was considered as OP for over a year, while a enemy Shaco was basically a free kill for me, simply because i knew how he worked – but most of the ohter players didn’t, and rather spammed the forums with QQ threads than figuring it out.

He eventually got nerfed quite a bit to please the baddies, and was completely unplayable for over a year, since he got borderline UP (again, he never really was that strong, people just didn’t wanted to lern how to counter him). Then he got a super small buff, in order to make him barely playable, and guess what, the baddies instantly put on their torches and grabbed their pitchforks, marching into the forums how OP he would be again (he was still ridiculous weak, but he was played again – and even a support could play out baddies).

It doesn’t matter how much you nerf these Assassins, they will only stop crying when they are taken out of the game (for example by nerfing them so hard, that nobody can and wants to play them anymore).

The question is simple:

Does ArenaNet wants to dumb down the game for baddies, pleasing every QQ bandwagon like Riot, or do they want promote skillful play, high skill caps and educate baddies, with the risk of scaring the 14 years old cry babies away (which Riot clearly isn’t doing, and look what happened to their community, after they figured out that they could get everything nerfed they couldn’t handle).

Tulisin.6945:

Exploit the heck out of the fact that jumping into the water changes all of your healing/utility cooldowns.

More often than not they don’t.

I’m not sure if they don’t do it at all, but if I use Roll for Initiative (60s CD) underwater for example, my Shadow Step for land combat (50 s CD) shares the 60s CD.

Super annoying when trying to escape over land → water → land (even more so since shadow step goes on a longer CD than it actually has because of Roll, and that without using it).

Tulisin.6945:

Asum.4960:

Otherwise ArenaNet wouldn’t have designed them in the way they are.

They aren’t designed the way you think they are, and your “class archetypes” are gross oversimplifications. You’re taking the same stance as OP, only in the conservative sense of “I want thieves to be a shallow and focused profession, just in my way and not yours”.

Actually they are not. I have fallowed GW 2 since it was announced 5 years ago (since i played GW since the day it was released), and they first of designed the classes based on archetypes (just the way i wrote them down), and diversified them from there on.
But still, thats the design core of the classes, before they went on the “every class can do everything” route.

It wasn’t me who came up with the archetypes for the classes of GW 2, it was ArenaNet.

And i actually like the diversity of the classes. But i also like that they put nearly every archetype into the game they could come up with, and that made sense to.
I don’t want one archetype to be deleted, to have 2 of another.

The condition master already exists, it’s the Necro, even if the Necro doesn’t have to go for conditions, and every other class can.

And still, burst Thief is not broken, so why “fix” (or break) it?

Dagger/Dagger is the Assassin archetype, bursting enemies down out of the shadows.
Why would anyone like to see conditions added everywhere into the set?

Again, if you have great ideas for conditions, and how to make a super nasty condition master, you probably should check the Necromancer.
While the Thief can be played as conditioner, just like every other class, he isn’t focused around it (like most other classes).

Warrior: Brawler/weapon master archetype
Necromancer: Conditionier/Curse/undead archetype
Mesmer: Illusion/mind tricker archetype
Elementalist: Ranged/AoE dmg archetype
Guardian: Support/Tank archetype
Ranger: companion/ranged dmg archetype
Thief: Burst/Assassin archetype

And while all classes can do everything to a certain extend, thats where their focus lies.
As i see it, you want to mess with the core of a class, and the archetype it’s representing.

Do i think the Thief should be able to do condition dmg? Hell yeah, and he’s just fine.
Do i think the Thief should be heavily focused on condition dmg? No, absolutely not. Also the Necromancer already pleases people who love that archetype.

BTW, i play Thief AND Necro for that very reason.
Thief for my bursting assassin, and Necro for my nasty conditions.

I neither think the Necro should be changed to be all about burst, nor the Thief to be all about conditions.
Otherwise ArenaNet wouldn’t have designed them in the way they are.

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

I don’t need to read further, the Thief is fine as it is. It has options for both crit/power and condition builds which are both viable paths to take. That is good design.

Same goes for me.

Besides that, Necromancer is the condition master, while Thief is the master of direct dmg (with both classes still having options for the other way).

Changing a whole class around your playstyle seems to be rather ridiculous.

If you want to manage conditions, i suggest running a necro, instead of asking for a remake of a perfectly fine class.

/E:

I agree with the point regarding the mixed skill sets though, for example the Leaping Death Blossom in the Dagger/Dagger set up is out of place (so far out of place that i haven’t even a Key binding for it, i like diversity, but having this one con skill just doesn’t makes sense on a melee burst weapon set).
My suggestion would be to take the condition dmg out of it, replacing it with something else, instead of changing the heart of the class (fast movement, stealth, hard hitting crits).

BTW, no good power Thief would ever spam HS or PW, none.

ArchNemesis.4897:

You could outright WRITE OUT how to counter it, it won’t make a difference. People are here to post and complain, not read and learn. If they were willing to learn how to counter they wouldn’t be kittenposting in the first place.

It’s unfortunate but the fact of the matter is gamers nowadays are spoiled brats that want instant gratification. When they don’t get it, they whine and cry like those little children at the supermarket.

Sadly thats the problem here, and in the new gaming generation in general.

Also, bladie, please stop acting like you have the wisdom and truth given to you, and everybody else (and their opinions) are just pure speculation, even more so since you don’t even seem to understand backstab Thief, what they have to do and which skills and traits they take.

Your biased statements like "stop fighting (..you know you are OP) " are just disgraceful towards the people who actually try to help here, explaining how a Thief actually works and how to counter them.
We don’t fight to not get nerfed, we don’t try to justify the current state and we don’t secretly think that the class we like is OP, all we do here is trying to help people to fight a balanced class, by telling them how the mechanics actually work, and how to counter them.
Nobody likes overnerfs, and thats what it would be to nerf a balanced class.

And if you continue to cry for nerfs for skills most backstab Thieves don’t even use (with the reasoning “what would it hurt”, really?), with the purpose to nerf backstab Thieves, simply because you can’t play against them, then you are honestly making a fool of yourself.

“If Thief is so well balanced, implied by your “great” post, why do you even care if they get nerfed again?”

Because they will be UP then?

“Don’t you play this profession because it’s fun?”

Sure, but who likes to play overnerfed profession? I’m sick of seeing perfectly balanced Rogue type characters nerfed to death in every game, because people (exept the ones playing them and the pros) are to lazy, dumb, or just to bad to counter them.
Assassins: Pub stomper. They kill baddies, and you seem to try everything to verify that accusation.

“Oh no? It’s because it IS incredibly powerful and easy to play?
Let me know what class you roll after a few more nerfs, kiddo.”

I will still roll Thief, no matter how much nerfes come and i most likely will still wipe the floor with you, since it’s not the class, it’s the player.

GG

Warriors - twice my (burst) dmg, twice my hp, twice my toughness, no in depth needed on that one
Guardians – CC, durable as hell, insane with spirit weapons, and immortal otherwise
Mesmers - if they play well, it’s quite easy to get fooled in the heat of the battle, and if you don’t have 100% control over a fight as Thief, you are dead
Necros - durable, death shroud to eat burst, conditions, marks (to dmg, CC, and track the Thief in stealth
Rangers - Traps, heavy dmg target lock channel attacks which don’t care about stealth (continue to be locked and fire on the Thief in stealth, damaging and revealing the position)
Elementalists - a crap load of mobilty which no Thief can keeep up with, tons of AoE which turns stealth into a backstab tool only, heals to compensate the whole initial burst, conditions, heavy burst, CC
Engeneers - twice my (burst) dmg, -while on a range of 1200 instead of my melee, durable, heals, AoE’s, CC.. oh well, just everything on a good engeneer can ruin my day

What I’m saying is, a good Thief is countered by a better X.
Every profession has the tools to shut down every profession and the Thief is by far no exception of that.

Shomaruki.7395:

And that’s what didn’t have me make a thief at first. I assumed there stealth only was active out of combat. Even then any other mmo I know you hit someone in stealth it knocks them out of it. OR they have reduced movement. (at lower levels..ect ect.)

Thieves get knocked out of stealth when they attack AND have reduced movement speed in stealth.

If stealth is used in combat (ended with getting knocked out of it because of attacking, like a backstab) then they get a multiple second CD in which they can’t stealth again (but still waste their stealth skills, just nothing happens).

Also nearly all stealthes only last 3 seconds on default (can be traited on 4 seconds with heavy investment into shadow arts, resulting in a huge dmg loss), except for the Shadow Refugee (AoE field) which makes you stay in it (super easy AoE target, if people would use their brain to figure out counters instead of writing whining post on the forums).

Also, for what someone else wrote – Thieves simply can’t insta backstab you.
Even if the target is a afk baddie, they need to Steal, CnD (1 second cast stealth on “kiss” range, can be shortend when arriving at the target when perfectly set up with a shadow step), walk around the target and backstab, which all together takes around 1-2 seconds when executed perfectly.

Not even counting moving targets, but hell, which good player would move around when a Thief tries to backstab them, right?
You could actually avoid being hit in the back, take only lousy dmg, and not complain anymore. Or you dodge and walk 2 meters, Thief can’t keep up in stealth, and his stealth will simply run out (3 seconds, at that point only 1-2 sec left), just destealthing, with half of his initiative gone for nothing.

Truly horrible things would happen if you would try to understand the class you are complaining about, and learn to counter its (already very limited) strengths.

Shredicus.8706:

You are telling people that they are bad and need to learn to play while simultaneously championing a class that can devastatingly effective using only 1 attack skill repeatedly. I’m not saying you’re trying to be ironic intentionally but at the very least your bias is laughable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyKXqqT5c1k

So condition Thief is OP now, too?
Give me a break, really.

Yes, this guy only spams one skill, and yes enemies die to it. OP?

No, they don’t dodge it a single time and only would have to use a frikin con removal when he’s out of initiative, and then just auto attack him down.
Free kill.

Jez, quit whining.

Jnaathra.6549:

Here is another one….

And a warrior still can do the same dmg while having twice as much base HP and being a armor class higher, with less effort i might add.

Not counting that every other class can put out the same numbers when specced on glass cannon (aka the Engeneer build we just saw, who can do the burst even faster, while being at a range of 1200).

I don’t see the problem, really.

Loco.4561:

But if somone pops up and pulls a cheese manouver on me with one/two abilities (Backstab is one of these) and takes of more than 1/4 – 1/2 of my health bar, yeah I’m gonna say something about that. PW + Haste was a perfect example of something being changed because it was nowhere near balanced.

I highly expect being completely immune to damage whilst being in stealth might be getting looked at, especially stomping whilst in stealth, it has no counter and needs to be changed.

It’s impressive how you don’t understand a single machanic the Thief has.

First of, immunity to damage (or anything) while in stealth isn’t a thing. It just isn’t.

Also you talk about that huge backstabs like a Thief has nothing to do for it, has no trade offs, nothing.
That a Backstab Thief puts every Trait he has into supporting that single strike, every stat into dmg etc. doesn’t even matter right?

A build with ABSOLUTELY no thoughness, no Health at all, no defensive Utilities, no consitent condition removal, nothing, is actually doing dmg? How silly is that!?

It’s just what i said, you don’t even WANT to know the weaknesses of this builds, because it would show you counters, and therefor telling you how bad you are for not using them.

You only talk about the strong parts/situations of the build, complaining that it’s to strong.
How about doing some research on how to beat that type of Thief instead?
What can’t he do? In which situations is he weak? What abilities are essential for him, and can i juke them into CD/make him waste his global CD aka. Initiative?
How do Thieves behave in stealth, to still hit them/avoid being backstabbed?

The list is endless, and i never heard a pro player complaining about Thieves, since they know a) how to counter them, and b) that when they haven’t had a chance, that the Thief made a huge commitment (and therefore paid a huge tradeoff) to be super effective at that specific situation (which leads to avoiding said situation in the future).

TL:DR: You suck, get better (i recommend reading the post though)

It was always like that, and it probably always will be.

People are lazy and dumb. They don’t want to get better, and they don’t want to put effort into discovering/learning counters.

Everything they can’t handle on first sight should be nerfed into uselessness, so they don’t have any problems anymore without any effort done.

The only thing we can hope for, is that ANet knows it better, and that they don’t want to dumb down the game.

High skill (risk), high reward classes are always hated, since you actually need skill to beat them, instead of a easy rock-paper-scissors priciple aka. “I’m that class, so i can beat this, but have to avoid that” etc.

To beat a skilled Thief (and any Assassin type class/character in any game really), you need to be skilled too, just that most people aren’t.

Darkeh.4539:

The only reason thieves make topics like this is because they kitten well know they are OP and they are afraid they cant play there 2 / 3 button roflcopter class anymore after the nerfs are done.

Pro scene laughs at you.

GZ.

I don’t know how many times i have to post it, but it’s still the Hat from the Orr Karma Vendors, which costs 42k Karma.

http://dulfy.net/2012/09/08/gw2-templegod-karma-armor-sets/

If you can keep a condition on your enemy (which is super easy as D/D), then i would go for the 10 % increased dmg, which is WAY stronger than the 5 Shadow Arts Trait.

25 % HP on a Thief is pretty much nothing anyway, and it mostly will stealth you into downed state at that point anyway, since when you take hard hits as Thief, you are dead. Stealth or not, since you will still take dmg.

So if you think about it, a nearly constant 10 % dmg boost or a auto stealth when you are basically dead isn’t even a question.

A random autoattack on you in stealth and you are down, not even considering AoE’s going off.

/E:

And i would switch out Potent Poison for Sundering Strikes, considering your emphasis on Critical Strikes. The Auto attack combined with poison on steal should keep the condition nearly constantly up anyway, preventing the enemy from using heals well.

If you can’t beat a Thief, then you also can’t beat a dungeon.
It’s called skill.

You need to learn animations, and you need to learn to react incredible fast to avoid
crucial attacks with the awesome tool given to you, namend dodge.

As far as I’m concerned, PvP (the classes) and PvE (open world, story and dungeons) are all fine in balance difficulty, you just can’t suck.

There are some problems with Mesmer portals on certain maps etc., but otherwise the balance is in a pretty good place.

And honestly, the pro scene would laugh extensively at the OP and the rest of the QQ’ers in this thread, if they would read the crap you guys type.

I at least do.

OP is reported for simply trolling/QQ’ing with no intentions of a discussion, which the forum is for.

The hat is from the Karma Vendors in Orr (42k Karma if i remember correctly).

Squishy melee assassins are always the target of the bad player QQ, because they punish bad play harder than anything else, while struggling against good play (which nobody has a problem with).

It doesn’t matter what game you play, from League of Legends to Guild Wars 2, the baddies will always cry about the perfectly balanced Assassins, until they are nerfed and getting absolutely useless (what happened in LoL alot since they basically balance around QQ ers, making characters not playable for 6 months +, just to see a QQ flood when they buff them again to be nothing but at least playable).

The question is, does Anet want to support skillful play, and leave Thiefes how they are (very effective at exploiting bad play and mistakes, but easily countered/screwed over by good play with timed dodges etc), or do they want to support bad play, dumbing down everything that needs skill to beat, if it is PvP or PvE.

I think Anet made their point clear, and i hope they stick to their guns.

Also I’m still surprised that i have no problems beating those Thieves with my Thief (or other classes for that matter) while not playing a one time burst build.
I just dodge their C&D, or backstab if i fail, and kill them.
I mean.. thats the whole trick you need against that build. not that hard to remember, isn’t it?

And if they use their (stun) elite + every single utility skill, and manage to backstab me in under a second because i was to slow to dodge their initial approach, well, kitten happens, other classes can kill too when they blow up all CD they have while being purely dmg with zero survive ability at all.

Besides that, the OP has 11k HP and is mid armor, really, just 2 shot him after he bursted someone down.
You simply can’t expect to win a 1vs1 with a random group fight/support whatever spec, against someone who has done EVERYTHING to burst down a single target.

The right armor, weapons, traits, skills – everything is focused to burst down one guy per minute (if that guy plays rather bad) – and you complain about that and call it OP?

Sorry, but you don’t even want to get better, and you don’t want to learn anything.
You just want to have everything nerfed, killed and tuned down what is to difficult for you because you are a bad player.
And since that is a lot, you won’t stop anyway if they nerf backstab. You wont even stop crying if they basically would remove the Thief from the game by nerfing him into the ground, since you would just jump onto the next class.

And when only your class is left to be playable, you would cry for a nerf for them too (at least all other playstyles but yours), since the better players will still wipe the floor with you, even on the same class.

Stop complaining, and change something by yourself – the world won’t make itself easier for you, you have to get better (at least not the real one, and hopefully GW 2 neither).

Thief is at 1200 range, starts using C&D and will fallow with a Gap closer, you dodge, Thief looses half his initiative and is not stealthed = kill him.

Playing porperly must be hard with the reaction time of a brick.

And even IF they manage to hit you with C&D, just dodge around like crazy, use your movement abilities, i mean, how do you even manage to stand still when a Thief just C&D you, and prepares for a backstab? Such bad play SHOULD hurt, and apparently, as the OP proved, it does.

Seems fine. Let’s move on.

A extremely squishy melee class cannon, purely focused on doing dmg with one skill,
actually doing dmg with it (to level 1 in WvW). Holy crap, nerf right now.

Jez, such Thiefes are level 80, fully geared, have orbs of power – and still not even 12k HP, and they basically have to kiss you for C&D.

If they oneshot you, before you oneshot them, you are doing it wrong.
I would understand the complaints if GW2 had permastealth, but 3 second stealth is far away from that, and he can’t even engage in stealth, since he needs all his skills to support his backstab dmg to do these numbers.

So you let a 11k HP burst Thief walk up on you, you let him close the gap with steal to you, you let him cloak and dagger you, and then you let him backstab you,

and then you cry that Thief is OP?

Weeeeewww.

/E:

I once sat in 3 Meteor showers – it killed me oO

So OP.

Thats the cost of a PvP focused game. PvP balance = boring PvE skills.

Don’t even get me started on how awesome abilities, mechanics and effects they could add to the game if there wouldn’t be the factor PvP (except WvW, which would blow every PvP experience out of the water with hundreds of players using tons of crazy skills).

But yeah, SPvP needs to be structured, simple, and balanced.

Cool mechanics, like freely shadowstepping around, would open up to much possibilities (which would be great otherwise) in a competetive environment, and therfore isn’t allowed through out the game.

cobaltshadow.3751:

You should see how hard it is as a hunter x.x

Yeah, playing a class that doesn’t exist must be pretty difficult.

The Thief has good mobility and frequent stealth, thats pretty much it.

While that is very important for PvP, which makes the Thief very good there, it isn’t all that important in PvE (more like a nice to have, but not necessary).

So yes, upfront, the Thief is way weaker than the most other classes in PvE, but (and that is a big but right here) if you can utilize your mobility and stealth (with backstabbing and frequent dodging for example) you are very much on par with other classes in viabilty, meaning you may still not be able to do things a warrior can do easily, but you can do other few things way better than most other classes can.

But it should already be obvious when you pick your class, what you get when picking a Thief.
The class is balanced around PvP (like all classes), where stealth, mobility and burst are powerful tools against other players, while not being all that important in tough PvE fights, so a champion wont care all that much about a short burst window, and just oneshot you when you try it, while the average player will be cought in surprise, and be downed before they know what is happening.
Also stealth isn’t that powerful here, since you hardly will surprise a champ when popping out of stealth again.

And to keep the balance for PvP, the Thief can’t also be as tough as a warrior for example, combined with his other powerful tools, which means over all, he will be slightly weaker in PvE where that tools are less important.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil

Quote:

- Sigils that hold a charge per kill cannot be stacked (i.e. +5 power per kill and +5 condition damage per kill) one or the other shows up.
Charging and non charging sigils can be stacked.
- Sigils that trigger on critical hits can trigger on any critical hits; the critical does not need to be scored with the associated weapon’s skills (e.g. a character with an offhand weapon imbued with a Sigil of Rage can still gain quickness when critting with their first three skills)
- Sigils that have a chance to trigger on critical hits do not stack their chance percentages (e.g. two major sigils of fire – 20% chance on crit each – do not give a 40% chance on crit).

On Crit effects work on all abilities, it doesn’t matter on which weapon they are.

Direct buffs (+dmg, crit chance) work only for the weapon skills gained by the weapon the Sigil is on.

On Crit effects don’t stack, 2 air sigils will have the same effect as one.

Three people got killed by one guy, just using pistol wip?
Wew, they must have been the worst players GW 2 has to offer.

Think about how OP Elementalists spamming AoE might be for that guys.

But srsly, you realize that you have movement buttons? They are W, A, S, D by default i think.

TRON.1085:

Little effort spam a few skills, instant kill. While invisible OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

That “sentence” combined with that satiric video you post everywhere, while not even understanding that it’s a joke, says pretty much everything.

I just wish Anet would close more than only your threads.

The stealth thing would be really easy to test by yourself, but as far as i know it’s a hidden upgrade, like most traits unfortunately are.

You can make a viable build with DA, CS and SA.

The most forgiving traitline not to have as Thief is probably Trickery, while that doesn’t says a lot.

I’m honetsly not a fan of “do this and this, then you will rock because it works for me” guides/posts.
Figure out how you like to play your Thief, and grab what supports that playstyle the most.

Crafting builds is a big part of the fun in Guild Wars.

Trying to figure out that stuff by yourself instead of just copying guides is a good start indeed.

Make a build by yourself, it it works, it’s good, if not, it isn’t and you try again.
If DA – CS – SA works for you, go with it.

I don’t spam any button when playing Thief.

And i get flamed by butthurt players i killed for only using 2 buttons and spamming HS when i didn’t even used HS once to kill them, but pretty much every other skill my bar has to offer.

It just got a bandwagon thing. Baddie gets killed by a Thief because he played bad, remembers he heard that Thiefes would be OP from other baddies, and instead of looking into his mistakes and what he could have done better, he jumps on the bandwagon too, flaming “Thief OP”, which other baddies hear, and it continues to spread.

I’m not looking at you OP, but it could be the case here too.

“A)Turn him into a nice pink Chocobo(I just like calling them that) and face roll my keyboard”

As long as you can “Faceroll” Thieves, i don’t really see the problem honestly.

But if you really get killed by a Thief who only uses 2 buttons, then you are simply playing horrible.

The Thief profession doesn’t has a lot of fancy effects (which is good for that kind of class), so i think people not playing Thief just think “they killed me easy with only using 2 skills”, while the Thief actually played very well and with much effort, using everything he has (which looked like he did only one thing).

Yes, there are spam builds, but honestly, they are bad.
Spam Thieves are bad players, and the people loosing versus them even worse ones.

That mission is nuts. I died like 5 times in it, but was able to complete it alone after all (like every other mission, pre nerfs).

It’s pretty hard, but if you are sneaky and able to use dodge properly, you will be able to complete it.

I think we saw how legit TRON is, in this, and his other flaming threads.

Not even worth the effort of trying to argue any sense into him.

He wants affirmation and recognition, and not the truth.

TRON.1085:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

It’s OP. Fact.

And if someone edits a satiric video together from different Obama speeches, making him singing a song, than you are THAT guy who really blieves that he sung it.

Just.. wow.

You are trolling, aren’t you?

You just used the term “OP” in one post more often than i did in 10 years as gamer.

All i hear is “Character/Class X is OP, nerf”.
Thats pretty much a auto indicator for a L2P case.

A good player who can be taken seriously would state facts about skills and numbers out of real tests he made (not the imaginary ones you did with your imaginary friends).

All you do is saying “It’s OP and a fact because i believe it”, so you don’t state ANYTHING specific, because you could be proven wrong then easily, and you don’t want to be proven wrong, because then everybody would know that you are just a bad fool who is to lazy to overcome a challenge by becoming better yourself.

Feels like arguing with religious people, so annoying.

Stop living in your imaginary world and trying to bring others down, and improve yourself instead.

A extremely squishy, high dps melee character/class gets called OP while being completely fine if you know how to play against them.

We never had that in any game…

I finally found a nice combination (i always found sets kind of boring), which means my Thief is ready to show off
Still thinking about different gloves and maybe shoes though, maybe the crucible gloves and the 42k karma boots.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

This lone type of thief was also quickly (1) killing player after player, and (2) was able to quickly escape with minimal effort (1) and then kill another player. To be blunt, he was far more effective than siege at mowing down players. I don’t think that’s fair at all.

(1) A Thief with the build you are describing simply can’t kill “Player after player”. This kind of Thief is a one burst wonder, which he can repeat every 45 seconds.

I also play a backstab Thief but with lower damage and no downtime instead.
And while i can kill many players in a row if i outplay them by far, i can’t burst down someone in a second on the other hand.

(2) How can you tell the Thief did all this with minimal effort, if you didn’t even knew what he was doing when saying so?

/E:

Also it’s not like Backstabs aren’t avoidable, and if that happens, the backstab Thief is screwed.
High risk, high reward. Thats all.

I would go for Vitality.

The Thief doesn’t has all that much ways to remove conditions, so some more health is always a good idea.
I also didn’t noticed all that much difference when i tried to stack some Toughness.

IMO the Thief has incredible low base Health, but at least medium armor class, so i would try to fix the lack of health first.

riku.2091:

It’s not that the sword itself is causing the problems – it’s just the sword has a bad history, but she just keeps giving it to people. :P

Yeah, it’s like “Hey, i heard you will do some crazy suicidal stuff, have some sword, please!?”

It’s a old beta bug, which now came back yay.

My main camps this dungeon since 3 days, looking for a group. Never seen a single person.

They do sometimes, at least Trahearne rezzed me a few times when i went down close to him.

Canoas.8423:

Dagger storming in shadow refuge give you one of the best combos possible. In a combo if you were inside the field when you used the finisher the combo triggers. the +100% crit chance could work the same way, you got 100% crit for the next ability.

Im pretty sure it’s on the next attack, and not next ability.

But if you know it “better” anyways, why would you ask?

It’s also a mess if you want to check out multiple dungeons, if someone is there to play with.
Right now, the only dungeons actually played are CoF and Arah.

The other ones are most of the time completely dead.

So when i look for people in every dungeon zone, i already paid around 10-20 silver just for that, just to realize that absolutely nobody wants to play those dungeons once again.