Guild Wars 2

I would like sound effects for the juggernaut. When you walk, each step you make should sound like a tremor.

It should be a flat damage reduction. That’s how it was in gw1.

alcopaul.2156:

Aza.2105:

alcopaul.2156:

Particle effects is fine. A trained eye can use it offensively vs those who aren’t use to it. In real life, comparable to a flash bang or something that will confuse the eye and can be used against the enemy. To the spectator, it will take a while to get used to that (Quality tourney spectating is just weeks old). A trained shout caster should be able to describe what went on beyond the clusterkitten.

People are just used to guild wars, where all is 2005 graphics. Do you want to regress/dumb down the graphics? I don’t want.

What do flashbangs have to do with sports competition???

http://i50.tinypic.com/ri98xs.png

i said comparable. Where are flashbangs used? in combat. why? to disable the visuals of the enemy.

In video game e-sports, pixel cluttering can be used tactically. With a trained eye, a player can use this as an advantage. GW2 is a combat game. Connect the dots.

this is a video game, action game to be exact. so there are explosions and visual spells, right? video involve graphics, right? recognizing and discerning from cluster pixels should be a “skill”. Pixels could be used as an advantage vs your enemy who got an untrained eye.

And it’s just 3 persons at most doing those flashy pixels man. And you complain? . Can you imagine this in WvWvW? No one’s complaining in WvWvW.

You want to dumb down the graphics of the game. No thanks. Thank you.

This is why you have to move on Beyond Guild Wars 1 man. You’re used to this old stuffs that you think that are hard.

So better graphics = more particle effects? Got you.

I’ll save you some trouble and just quote what else I said about particles:

“It would be great if they gave players a slider to control the amount of particles drawn on the screen at once.”

alcopaul.2156:

Particle effects is fine. A trained eye can use it offensively vs those who aren’t use to it. In real life, comparable to a flash bang or something that will confuse the eye and can be used against the enemy. To the spectator, it will take a while to get used to that (Quality tourney spectating is just weeks old). A trained shout caster should be able to describe what went on beyond the clusterkitten.

People are just used to guild wars, where all is 2005 graphics. Do you want to regress/dumb down the graphics? I don’t want.

What do flashbangs have to do with sports competition???

http://i50.tinypic.com/ri98xs.png

Dynasti.7216:

Hi. I am not trying to be negative or anything like that but I am REALLY curious about 1 question:

What do you expect ArenaNet to do with your suggestions? Do you expect them to redesign all the spells because the effects is confusing, for an instance?

I get the feeling that you are suggesting them to actually redesign the whole game(not literally), and I don’t ever see that happening, EVER.

What I would like is that people like garethh gathering a small team and have an actual real discussion via skype etc., THEN start to bring ideas to the table, and not argue with tons of peoples being negative and saying that this game is just bad.

Garethh and a few peoples here are just inspiring and brings up alot of good points, and they doesnt just point out what is wrong with the game, but brings alot of cool ideas!
They are somewhat realistic aswell, I mean sure, there are some problems that would take too much money/work to fix, but they need to be mentioned anyway.

This is a valid point.

I think they should try giving each class their own unique buffs/debuffs and make the current boon systems something that is universal between all classes.

Its like how someone suggested that combo fields aren’t unique enough. Its true, because boons are shared among each class. So it doesn’t feel entirely unique or important.

Interestingly enough, the original guild wars had two type of debuffs: conditions and hexes. In gw2 most of the conditions remain except deep wound and disease, but hexes have been entirely removed with the exception of confusion.

They could slowly reintroduce hexes and introduce exclusive boons per class. This would begin to give classes more of a unique identity and add a layer of complexity.

Muramasma.1570:

On a side note, bickering should go down and constructive discussion should increase. Both sides are responsible.

Yup, we should.

I already said what I wanted to about gw2 pvp. The only thing I’d add is the overuse of particle effects.

From what I understand, the devs didn’t want to include casting bars because they wanted players to be conscious of the unique animations and respond to them. But there is a problem, the particle effects are so bright and numerous that it makes it quite hard to see what a target is doing.

Often times, a target is completely bright white because all of the flying particles and animations. So its impossible to interpret what they might be doing because of this.

It would be great if they gave players a slider to control the amount of particles drawn on the screen at once.

nakoda.4213:

no, i think paul is intelligent because his commentary shows a depth and understanding of issues which encompasses more than just gratifying his own cathartic involvement with the game.

some of which i disagree with.

i don’t care what you think of me.

edit: also, your inductive logic that applies my judgement of paul to everyone else is woefully misplaced.

Why? You are the one who said it, not me.

Nakoda,

What you said about boxing is at best rhetorical. No boxing fan watches boxing for that reason man, get real. Boxing fans like boxing because of the art, not to bet on who is going to win. Anticipating who would win the match is certainly fun, but its not at all what makes it complex. That doesn’t even make sense.

In respect to what you said about commentary, say that to the people who watch ppv fights from streams where the commentary speaks a entirely different language. It doesn’t change the essence of how the fight is perceived.

Here is a starting place to learn the complexities of boxing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_styles_and_technique

Boxing fans liked to watch Roy Jones Jr for his ability to land stylistic blows on his opponents and for his ability to completely dominate the fights he was in (while he was in his prime). Fans like Mike Tyson because of his explosive one punch knock out power. Fans like Sugar Ray Robinson because of his ability to do EVERYTHING. I can go on and on, but none of it has to do with betting as you described. That is the reason why “you” would watch boxing.

alcopaul.2156:

Diage.6451:

Low complexity helps get viewers, high skill cap helps get professionals. You need both to win.

A.NET is doing the right formula here, IMHO. They “lowered the complexity” for it to become appealing to new players and viewers.

I won’t comment on the skill cap thing since I don’t play tPvP and belong to top teams like MiM, TCG or TP. All I can say the the skill cap of any game will just go higher and won’t reach its cap if there is actually quality competition going. The tactics and the way that the game is played will evolve over time. Prolly 2 years from now, we might see different tactics being employed.

And let’s be real. Professionals do it for the $$$ and fame. Why do you want to be good? Coz you want to be talked about, popular and rich even. There are professionals in respective sports. And you know what, here are the top 2 of the World’s Highest paid athlete.

1
Floyd Mayweather
$85 M $85 M $0 M Boxing
2
Manny Pacquiao
$62 M $56 M $6 M Boxing

http://www.forbes.com/athletes/list/

What they do is not complicated. They just punch each other. And it is exciting to watch.

EDIT: I don’t mean to talk low of boxing. It’s one of my favorite sports actually. Sure it requires a lot from a boxer to be on top of the game but let’s face it, anybody can throw a punch. To land it successfully, requires skill though. And I’m hoping for a Pacman-Mayweather fight to happen.

Boxing isn’t complicated? Lets see you go in the ring so you can get rocked and knocked out lmao. Its not called the “sweet science” for nothing. Boxing my friend is quite complex. I can’t believe you are comparing it to a game, guild wars 2 at that!

Also, anytime you need to water something down to attract a multitude of people, then you know its bad. Its kind of like what has happened to many games today, you know when they become consolized. Example:

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_super/6/68178/2077570-fps_map_design.jpg

This applies to gw2 as well. Except the old map would represent the intricate details of the original system, lots of variety and options. The new map is a lot like gw2. Anet decides how you will play and there is only one build per class. In other words everything has become very very simple hidden under the facade of eye candy.

Each time anet fixes orr to make it more attractive, they nerf it again to make it less attractive than before.

Example:

They minimize the amount of cc orian mobs do and increase the chance of getting heavy loot bags and t6 mats.

Orr was packed!

Then, they introduce the new event scaling. Which summons champs that one shot you.

Now Orr is empty again.

Its a vicious cycle. I don’t think anet knows what they want orr to be.

I’ve seen players mention on several occasions that gw2 is a very fast paced game. I agree with this to a extent. Unlike gw1 which were the max cooldown to skills were 60secs. Gw2 gives us the traditional mmorpg approach with “powerful skills and long cooldowns”.

Because of this, gw1 gameplay actually feels more fluid, since there isn’t a long interval between rotating skill cooldowns. To make matters worse, many of the skills with the longest cooldowns tend to be the least powerful.

In the future, I hope the devs get rid of the long cooldown approach and build upon the original formula. Were skills were on short cds and elites weren’t super powerful skills but skills that you formed your build around.

It seems Valkyriez problem with gw1 is that its not as cosmetically pretty as gw2. So his opinion definitely has truth to it, I don’t think anyone would disagree.

However, no gw1 player is concerned about that. They are concerned about the system mechanics. Something which is quite inferior to the original. I guess the example would be, after the success of Street Fighter 4. Capcom announces Street Fighter 5 for the PS4 and new Xbox.

We see the screenshots and think it looks amazing. The animations are much more fluid, heck it on par with traditional 2d Disney animation but its all 3d. Wow!!!!

When SF fans get their hands on the game finally, they find out it plays like smash bros with motion controls. Their reaction would be like wtf? While people who never liked SF in the first place, but enjoy smash bros would say how great the game is!

That is what happened with gw2. So of course fans of the original will express their disappointment. Anet should of built upon the gw1 pvp formula and used the new engine to address issues that weren’t possible to deal with in gw1. Instead, they toss the entire formula out the window. Kind of reminds me of what happened with guilty gear 2.

alcopaul.2156:

Aza.2105:

Simply put…yes. Why would you change something that isn’t broken?

Skill balancers didn’t skill balance but killed variety of builds. Skill balances, ever heard that? Why are you unaware of this?

It’s damaged beyond repair. Thus GW2, a complete overhaul.

And how does GW2 remedy that? Its the same but far worse, since there is no variety. All this does is leave players at the feet of the devs asking them for mercy, to fix their class. Its a sad state when its considered good that a class has one viable build. Meaning we might as well not have builds at all in game.

Or if a class is unlucky like warriors, they have none. When was that ever the case in gw1?

KrisHQ.4719:

Aza.2105:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Former-rank-1-GvG-GW1-talks-GW2-competitive/page/3#post2047229

Well. It would be waste to create a whole new game which is basically just GW1 with better graphics.
They have already created the mechanics for GW1 and naturally they wanted to try something different. They looked at the flaws GW1 pvp had and tried fixing those.
That is for instance the viewer-friendlyness. And imo GW2 is much easier to spectate than GW1.
If the way GW2 turned out is not for you, that is a shame but fortunately GW1 is still accessible and teams are still playing.
I agree that GW2 has a long way to go, and maybe we need a new game-mode before it takes off. That said, i do not believe GW2 has kittenty pvp.

Then the game should of been called something else. Here is the description of gw1:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars

Some key quotes:

The first campaign of Guild Wars, Guild Wars Prophecies was released on April 28, 2005. The different genre was chosen (as opposed to the classic “Massively Multiplayer Online (MMO) RPG”) due to the perceived differences between the game and other, more traditional MMOs: the focus on Player versus Player (PvP) rather than Player versus Environment (PvE) play made it almost a unique case at the time.

and another:

“The game was designed from the ground up to be a competitive multi-player experience, focusing on high-level combat between two or more parties focusing more on player skill and innovative play rather than equipment, time played or sheer numbers, a stark contrast to other MMOs of the time. The game introduced revolutionary concepts such as protection and allowed casters to spend the majority of a fight casting. Other MMOs of the time relied on defensive characters out-healing their opponent’s damage in what amounted to be a “red-barring” contest that focused less on skill and more on level and attrition. Additionally, casters were often forced to spend significant portions of every fight waiting for (the equivalents of) energy to regenerate or skills to recharge. Guild Wars changed this by introducing effective forms of energy management, such as Attunements and Inspiration Magic, as well as a considerably higher rate of regeneration (and lower maximum energy pool) than other games allowed."

I guess to summarize it, GW2 is everything GW1 is not. And for pvp, that is a bad thing. Pve however needed to be changed to appeal to more people.

KrisHQ.4719:

So many GW1-Worshippers. Did you honestly expect GW2 to be exactly like GW1?

Simply put…yes. Why would you change something that isn’t broken? Its like Capcom vastly changing the formula of Street Fighter from what people have been use to all of these years. The only thing they do is add and take away different mechanics from the game, but they never change the basic formula.

GW1 was intended to be a pvp game from the start….pve was suppose to be something that you did to understand the gameplay mechanics I think. I don’t think Anet ever intended for a strong pve following but it happened.

GW2 is the total opposite, built for pve experience from the ground up with pvp as a bonus. They felt gw1 pvp was too complex and just chopped it all together because they wanted to get more casuals into the pvp playing field. But people who like pve will prefer pve over pvp regardless of how simple they make it.

But yes, if they had taken the gw1 pvp formula and added dodge and jump to it, that would of been a more ideal progression of the system. But to take away: build variety, strategy, team work, game modes, to take away everything, is just too much.

When the answer to how to counter other players in this game is to dodge 90% of the time, then it shows you how very very simple the game is in comparison to the original.

Jon,

If you are still watching this thread, I have a question for you. What is the idea behind the scepter skill smite? To my knowledge its the only skill in game that is aoe and splits the damage among each target caught within it.

Why was it designed this way? Its kind of negates the fact that it is a aoe, because you are punished for hitting more than one foe.

Amins.3710:

Or, instead of changing speed, let it damage everyone it passes through.

Or, slow them down a bit, let them hit on pass through and increase the width/breath of the orb…. you know… go go “Galaxy!”

Scepter orbs hit like a truck. I would not like seeing that taken away, personally. 2.5k dmg is pretty sweet.

Scepter does the same damage as shortbow and longbow. Except bows actually hit their target.

With gw2 anet decided to switch pve around with pvp. Meaning pve is actually pretty good and pvp is bad. In gw1 it was the opposite.

Everything about gw1 pvp is long gone, except skills using similar names. I guess it was to give us gw1 players nostalgia or something who knows?

Everything in gw2 pvp is very simple for example:

How do you beat a warrior in gw1? Maybe bring spiteful spirit, enfeeble, blinds etc.

How do you beat a warrior in gw2? Dodge

How do you avoid ranger interrupts in gw1? Bring something like mantra of resolve.

How do you prevent being interrupted in gw2? Dodge

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Aza.2105:

Guanglai,

You forgot to say smite does the best damage on golem training dummies. Why? Because they do not move.

And you forgot to mention that the more enemies hit by smite, the less damage it does. So yeah….

In that case, let me rephrase that to “Smite deals the best ranged damage on training dummies, everything in PvE, every stationary object in WvW, and 99% of players in PvP..”

Better?

No one stands in smite the full duration unless they aren’t very smart players. And in pve many mobs do not stand still or they come in a group. So your analysis of smite being the best skill ever isn’t very realistic.

Guanglai,

You forgot to say smite does the best damage on golem training dummies. Why? Because they do not move.

And you forgot to mention that the more enemies hit by smite, the less damage it does. So yeah….

Spirit weapons are useless. I don’t think Anet likes the idea of summoners in this game.

I tried out the hammer with its new hp buff and guess what? One shot and back on a long cd.

I wish they were good because it could open up a totally different guardian playstyle.

Bacon Please.8407:

Okay, lets play.

My dodge roll heals for around 1.2-1.4k and I use sigils of energy on both wepon sets so I dodge atleast once every time i switch. So lets say 4 times.

When I switch to staff I can constently spam 12 stacks of might with 100% uptime because of my boon duration build as well as that nice 2.4k heal to the area around me. I switch to Mace Shield to knock enemys away and pop shield for another ~1.2k heal. I haven’t even popped utilities yet. WIth traits I pop my virtue of resolve for another ~2.5k heal. Now I’m selfish and usually use Shelter, but lets say I switch to healing breeze, Don’t even know the heal on this. Hold the Line another 3k In regen because i have so much boon duration and healing power. all the while I am rolling around the battlefield healing everything in my area. Not to mention the retaliation, stability from stand your ground and Save yourself taking All conditions into myself and converting them to boons with pure of voice. After all that I popped renewed focus and pop virtues again if needed.

So what you are saying is, that guardian is the healer in the game. When its specified the game doesn’t have a trinity. Note, that I’m not disagreeing with what you wrote.

What benefits do you see that warrior has over guardian? In comparison guardian does not damage compared to the warrior counterpart. Nor do they have the mobility, flexibility or versatility. Lately I’ve seen the complaint that warrior needs protection like guardian.

Thing is, they can get protection from other a guardian. Yet a guardian can’t get their hp boosted to the levels of a necromancer and warrior.

P.S

I’ve tried using healing breeze and even with the change its still horrible. Using it is so impractical.

Bacon Please.8407:

I had never mentioned gear anywhere in my analyses. Both as tanks, the Guardian will be able to provide more utility and more heals then the warrior can. You don’t see level 30 fractical groups advertising for tank warriors. That being said. I am not in anyway asking for a nerf to guardian. Me personally, I am asking for a grand master defensive tree trait that procs protection, it seems very surprising to me that warriors don’t have one considering they are heavy armor. I will not take over your forums, this is the guardian forums and I am discussing warriors.

No, not true. Guardian can not heal the group for 2k hp x3 with shouts. And warrior probably has better regen with their adrenal health, healing signet and perma regen from banners. Guardian can not provide offensive buffs, warrior can. The banner buffs are huge, guard can’t give the group benefits from: banner of strength, tactics, discipline and defense. Is that not utility?

Even warrior can have a pure of voice like trait with their warhorn:

Quick Breathing Warhorn skills recharge 20% faster. Warhorn skills convert 1 condition into a boon.

vs

Pure of Voice: Allies affected by shouts convert one condition to a boon.

I ask again, what utility is warrior missing over guardian? I know you aren’t asking for a nerf but you have to show actual facts and comparisons. Because looking at the skills, mostly everything guardian does warrior can do it also, albeit a bit differently.

Bacon,

The problem with your analysis is that you are comparing a tank guardian with cleric gear to a dps warrior with zerker gear.

Compare the two traited as tanks (toughness and vitality trees) with cleric gear and provide some real numbers with their survivability difference. It won’t be that large as people try to make it seem to be.

Warriors tend to bring up the protection boon into their argument often, but fail to realize their base hp compared to guardian. Which is much much more and offer more flexibility when it comes to stats.

lLobo.7960:

Guardian is not “destroyed”. And there is much more to a guardian than just boons…

Before the patch a thief had nearly no chance against a guardian. Regen+Protection+Retaliation… guardian could just stand still on his GS simbol and the thief would just die…
Now it really depends on the skill of each player.
I can actually think of killing a guardian on my thief now.
And on my guard I actually have to play to kill a thief instead of just waiting for the thief to kill itself.

Oh really? According to anet guardian is all about boons. So how can there be much more to guardian than boons when just about every skill provides them?

Thief boon steal is fun when you play a thief, but when you play guardian you can see how much it destroys the class. Boon steal with the sword has no cooldown, so it can be used near indefinitely with the right build. What this means is guardian can never use boons because they will always get stolen.

Problem is, guardian’s design revolves around boons. The low hp pool, the low damage all reflect that fact. With boon’s stripped completely the class feels very unplayable.

I have no idea what Anet will do about this, but probably nothing.

My experience with warrior boon hate vs thief boon steal is that warrior’s haven’t changed much. You can still avoid their damage, so you can avoid their boon hate. Plus, the amount of damage boon hate does (with max boons) is about the same as if you traited into a dps trait tree.

Thief on the other hand, infinite boon steal while almost being untouchable with evade.

Wirldwide.8046:

JaNordy.6149:

Here is a genius idea. Fix the most broken autoattack in the game in Guard scepter. Its been what, since beta that this has been in game? No attack in the game is more broken and worthless than scepter autoattack. How about next patch we finally take care of this obviously “MINOR” problem that clearly has no effect on gameplay at all!

I have always been able to auto attack with the scepter on a guardian even in beta. So I’m not sure what it is you are talking about. Maybe you could explain in detail what the issue is?

Stop fighting stationary targets.

Hicci.8761:

autoduck.2837:

Obtena.7952:

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look at how it compares to Necro staff auto. I will say that when this does hit it is the highest DPS #1 skill in the game. We wanted it to feel this powerful but difficult to land but the effect may be too exaggerated. I’ll play some PvE and PvP scepter Guardian later today.

Jon

Sounds good, except the forum trolls have no clue what they just asked you to do and you’re going to ‘fix’ something that isn’t broken.

I hope you see this: The problem isn’t that it’s difficult to land, the problem is that some fool that is strafing left to right very quickly can avoid scepter 100% of the time. There is a video of it somewhere and if anyone would post it or send it to you, you can assess for yourself the issue.

Yeah, I just did this today on my dd ele against a guard while i was capping a point. It was so funny watching the orbs flying past me while i simply moved left and right.

Guardian isn’t a class that stands aside and snipes the points. He is INSIDE the point within 600 range of his opponent. The projectile speed fix is so that people wouldn’t be able to outrun the projectile while running away or so. The quick strafing doesn’t work within scepters intended range. It has 1200 range so it would be viable in PVE.
No guardian makes that mistake if he is even a bit more experienced.

Ah, I’m guessing you are the guardian who is more experienced. Thanks for letting everyone know.

fadeaway.2807:

Aza.2105:

It maybe the highest dps in the game WHEN it hits. Problem is in pvp it never does really. The attacks are so slow and tend to miss the target even if they move slightly.

Also smite is just as bad. Sometimes the attacks do not register. Fixing skills 1 and 2 for scepter would be a big improvement. I’d actually use the weapon!

Don’t guardians have multiple immobilizes and stuns?
Have you tried chaining these into close range scepter spam?

Yes they have a few, but even when immobilized sometimes all of the aoe does not hit. And its a very long duration. Meaning even if the target is immobilzed for 2 secs, they may only get hit by 3 of the hits out of 15. IF it hits.

Noerknhar.3826:

Aza.2105:

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look at how it compares to Necro staff auto. I will say that when this does hit it is the highest DPS #1 skill in the game. We wanted it to feel this powerful but difficult to land but the effect may be too exaggerated. I’ll play some PvE and PvP scepter Guardian later today.

Jon

Thanks for responding Jon, I think its long overdue.

It maybe the highest dps in the game WHEN it hits. Problem is in pvp it never does really. The attacks are so slow and tend to miss the target even if they move slightly.

Also smite is just as bad. Sometimes the attacks do not register. Fixing skills 1 and 2 for scepter would be a big improvement. I’d actually use the weapon!

What is shown in the video can be done with every single projectile based attack in the game. Go play Necromancer with a staff and you’ll QQ, your scepter is perfectly viable.

Please stay on topic, if you have necromancer problems then post it on the necro forums and hope a developer gets back to you.

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look at how it compares to Necro staff auto. I will say that when this does hit it is the highest DPS #1 skill in the game. We wanted it to feel this powerful but difficult to land but the effect may be too exaggerated. I’ll play some PvE and PvP scepter Guardian later today.

Jon

Thanks for responding Jon, I think its long overdue.

It maybe the highest dps in the game WHEN it hits. Problem is in pvp it never does really. The attacks are so slow and tend to miss the target even if they move slightly.

Also smite is just as bad. Sometimes the attacks do not register. Fixing skills 1 and 2 for scepter would be a big improvement. I’d actually use the weapon!

This video explains everything:

Thief could always steal boons if they traited into it. But most thieves don’t touch the trickery tree. The difference now is, bountiful thief is merged with S/D. So now its possible to steal up to four boons instead of two.

Godsight.5982:

Even so in the mist, it only add 36 power when traited.

It adds 20% to signets, so that’s right.

This skill does not work in pve, using it provides no boost to signets other than changing bane signet’s tooltip from power to how much damage it does.

It works in spvp, the 20% increase is given to all signets. How long must we wait for this skill to be fixed? Its been broken since launch. That’s quite a long time.

Vashoom.8512:

you are correct! it works in the mists but not in pve… how stupid is this obvious bug.. surely it can’t take this long to fix it?!

but what are they talking about charges? it’s almost as if arena net have no idea what this skill does, or confused it with another skill somehow..

Its been broken since the game launched, along with other things. Like someone mentioned, it only works in the mists.

Errant Venture.9371:

Yeah i don’t understand this nerf either, but trick shot is completely non-viable right now. It misses ANY target that’s moving.

Sounds like guardian’s scepter. Welcome to the club. :<

Boon hate hurts other classes more than guardian it seems. I hit some boon engineer for a 15.5k eviscerate.

Symbol of swiftness and symbol of faith now do around 2.7k damage with my character. Or is this just a tool tip change??

Perfect inscriptions and bane signet is quite nice. Its a big power boost.

With the introduction of boon hate, they should make all of guardian skills do holy damage. Which does double damage to necro pets and necros in death shroud. And hammer skill #4 banish should automatically remove summons and pets when used.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Aza.2105:

No, you had the CHOICE to run enchantments. Skills weren’t placed on your bar that FORCED you to do it! Its true that enchantments were probably a optimal choice for derv and ele but they weren’t forced on your hotbar. You choose how to build your character! Again, big difference.

A normal student also has the choice to get bad grades, but no one will want to do it unless they don’t know better. Having the choice between something bad and something good is usually not a good argument for this.

In GW1, the elementalists and the dervishes are balanced around enchantments. The devs intended for those professions to be that way. And players had no meaningful choice to go against that. Good players use enchantments with those professions, and enchantment (boon) hate is still fair in that game.

Does this game play like gw1 to you?

Saital.4819:

OP, just stop. Your past 10 posts at least have been nothing but spewing bullkitten about “range dominating melee.” Stop playing clusterkitten hotjoins and you’ll see just how long you last staying at range.

I think he is saying its easy for range to kite and avoid melee. Which is true. Especially if you play a guardian.

Zaviel.1245:

stale.9785:

If we’re tanky, our damage peaks at 2500 on a crit. If we’re DPS, then we’re hitting, but we’re dying fast.

I hope you enjoy that 2500 crit in tank gear. When I go bunker on my engi the most I can hope for are 800s.

Are you counting your pets and other objects you throw on the ground too? I.E engis have multiple sources of dmg. Guardian has one. So its probably more dmg than guardian does.

Randomfightfan,

Whoa, whoa wait a minute man.

Bajillion blocks? Guardian has the same blocking capability as warrior outside of aegis, which works for one hit. Warrior blocking skills last longer and you can trait to reflect projectiles.

Guardian: Shelter = Warrior: Shield Stance
Guardian: Mace skill 3 = Warrior: Mace skill 2

Guardian just gets aegis every 40secs, if you trait it becomes 30secs. And if you put points into the valor line you get aegis at 50% hp. That is hardly a bajillion skills. Would it be fair to exaggerate about warriors gazillion hp compared to guardians mere 10k base hp?

As for perma protection, writ of persistence doesn’t increase symbol of protection duration by much at all. Also, in order to have perma protection it requires the guardian to sit there and spam auto attack. Yes folks, sit there. Its lovely in pve were mobs have low intellect and will face tank you.

But in pvp? Players will just kite you. So you have to chase them down to get the third hammer hit in order to proc the symbol. In which you won’t stand in long because they will continue to kite you out of it.

Exaggerations do nothing for the topic, when you are trying to prove a point at least make sure its factual and practical.

DiogoSilva.7089:

In GW1, dervishes and elementalists weren’t told they had to be enchantment oriented, they were forced into it too. And it worked perfectly fine. In GW2, guardians are the dervishes ( and paragons/ “monks”) of the game. And in GW2, boons are extremely strong.

I can understand that people who are used to overpowered professions, are afraid that there will exist more means to counter them. But that’s how the game should have been since the beginning. You have to understand that playing with an overpowered, hard to counter profession was not meant to be the norm, but is a side effect to lack of balancing in that department.

No, you had the CHOICE to run enchantments. Skills weren’t placed on your bar that FORCED you to do it! Its true that enchantments were probably a optimal choice for derv and ele but they weren’t forced on your hotbar. You choose how to build your character! Again, big difference.

80% of guardians skills provide boons! Perhaps even more. There are three weapons that do not provide boons: Scepter (broken), 1h sword (broken) and torch (not worth using). Then three out of four signets do not provide boons.

Make a guardian build that doesn’t use boons in some way, you can’t!

emikochan.8504:

GW1 had much more boonhate and that was fine, also as said, 30 points in discipline.

Mechanics that target playstyles is not bad design, it’s counterplay. Just like equipping a sigil of nullification if you are fighting boon users.

gw1 had a extreme variety of builds, gw2 doesn’t. In gw1 monks weren’t told they had to be enchantment oriented, they weren’t forced to do any of that. In gw2, guardians are basically forced to be boon oriented.

Big difference.

lLobo.7960:

Svarty.8019:

The point is that the Guardian stuff that is being destroyed is inherent to the class itself, whereas warriors aren’t forced to spec burst. The very concept of Guardians is being gutted so that other classes can spec certain ways – there’s no way to counter them whatsoever and that’s not right.

kitten .. Guardian concept is not being DESTROYED??
Its one class!! Its 3 attacks after using one signet. Learn to see the animation and dodge/invul/LoS it.

And the boon hate? You still have protection… and I dont see it becoming a typical warrior playstyle as it demands 30 pts in discipline AND not taking burst mastery.

Thiefs stealing boons?? Have you seen the cost of it? Do you even know how thief works? If they steal 3 boons from a guardian they cant do anything anymore for the next 4-5 secs…

Stop overreacting!

Why do people act as if protection is always up? Its not. What you mean is that guardian will be forced to take skills that use protection. So what happens if the player isn’t running a shout build but a gs build and meditations? GS doesn’t have access to protection like hammer. Neither does meditations…..

Now imagine they use Contemplation of Purity. And they have all conditions except vulnerability.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Contemplation_of_Purity

So they get penalized for using a skill that removes all of their conditions and convert them to boons? What else are they going to use? I think this is the problem everyone has. Its not that everyone is automatically playing a bunker. Its that guardian as a whole is punished even if they are not bunkers.

Take a look how guardian gains access to protection, a starter list is:

Hammer skill 1 (which requires them to be immobile).

Mace skill 3 (which requires them to not get hit for the duration of it)

Hold the line

Save yourselves

Tome of courage

inspired virtue (5pts into virtues)

pure of voice (again vulnerability needs to be converted)

So a guardian would be hurting themselves to put any points into virtues since the first 5 points automatically provides boons for the virtues you use. The master trait provides retaliation for each virtue used. Even though virtues really isn’t a bunker tree.

Using condition removal would be harmful without having protection. But guardian condition removal doesn’t automatically give protection.

If anything this will only force guardians do stay bunker even more. (If the warrior boon hate build becomes popular).

Kaleban.9834:

What if all classes did more damage to Warriors depending on their Adrenaline level?

Similar skills existed in gw1…

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ancestor%27s_Visage

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Soothing_Images

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Signet_of_Rage

foofad.5162:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Profession_mechanics#Mechanic_bar

Everything he listed is something found on the F1-4 bar. Virtues are also found there. Boons aren’t a class mechanic. Everyone can give boons in one form or another. I don’t know why I have to explain this.

Virtues give boons with five points traited into the virtues line.

foofad.5162:

Your example doesn’t hold, since you listed ACTUAL class mechanics, and Guardian’s ACTUAL class mechanic is Virtues.

Guardian
The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.

Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post1061889