Guild Wars 2

sostronk.8167:

Aza.2105:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Are you kidding me OP? Guardians got MASSIVE healing power and MASSIVE protection update, and a full invulnerable elite at their disposal. The warriors will have to sacrafice 30 trait points for this. Really just QQ from someone who doesn’t wanna loose their OP profession.

Guardian’s have the same healing power as any other class that wears cleric gear……

Yes they have protection but warriors have close to 100% more hp than guardian does. In general warriors don’t use their defense and tactic tree. But tend to go berzerker and dps traits. Were as guardians use theirs, because the damage dealing trees aren’t very good.

A fully geared cleric warrior with 30 points into defense and tactics has about the same survivability and more healing power than guardian does. Guardian can not pop three 2k heals back to back for the entire party.

Your right about the healing power, but I see what he is saying. As a guardian you are so rarely taking damage that by time you do take damage you can just reset that to full health again and have all your cooldowns back up.

I do have 8 chars at 80 and I do play the regularly in WvW. If anything, a Necro would be my main. Although I play guardian quite regularly. I find there is something very broken about them and needs to be addressed.

That’s because bunker guardians trait honor and valor (healing and toughness) along with cleric gear. Warrior can do the samething but probably better. Shouts are on a low cooldown compared to meditations.

Imbune.5497:

What I see is guardians overreacting and warriors being…well…stupid. Utility is what drags the warrior down in pvp not damage-it makes not one lick of sense to give this generously high dmg profession even more damage when the opponent tries to use defensive spells. Facepalm hard at ppl who compare boon hate on the warrior to things like corrupt boon or arcane thievery-show me a necro who can easily hit 18k+ dmg then we’ll talk.
Alright you get your unfair +12% dmg against say a mesmer with retal, vigor, might and regen up…too bad he’ll pull/daze/knockback/invul/teleport you to tears (where you will of course come and whine on the forums). This dmg increase is pointless; the signet is a step in the right direction (whether or not it’s the right step is yet to be seen…for obvious reasons) as at least it adds utility to the class.
I hope most of you posting are in your early teens-your brains and emotions have a very long way to develop

Healing signet and adrenal health heals more than guardian healing passive. Plus perma regen from banners if you trait it or you can trait vigorous shouts for 2k heals per shout.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Are you kidding me OP? Guardians got MASSIVE healing power and MASSIVE protection update, and a full invulnerable elite at their disposal. The warriors will have to sacrafice 30 trait points for this. Really just QQ from someone who doesn’t wanna loose their OP profession.

Guardian’s have the same healing power as any other class that wears cleric gear……

Yes they have protection but warriors have close to 100% more hp than guardian does. In general warriors don’t use their defense and tactic tree. But tend to go berzerker and dps traits. Were as guardians use theirs, because the damage dealing trees aren’t very good.

A fully geared cleric warrior with 30 points into defense and tactics has about the same survivability and more healing power than guardian does. Guardian can not pop three 2k heals back to back for the entire party.

Sil.4560:

Ah. Guess I’m just used to that stuff being so frequent like everywhere on these forums that I was just like, oh boy, here we go again, haha.

Mostly I’m happy about it because it feels like guards were being given too much forgiveness for such obvious combat mistakes against classes like warriors. This will hopefully force people to stay on their toes more!

You have never explained how…..

You’ve only given vague descriptions why the class is overpowered and needs to be steamrolled…… But out of all of your posts you’ve never once specified what exactly is making them so strong. I’ve asked you quite a few times in this thread, but each time you simply evade the answer.

I’m not sure if you are serious or if you are just trolling. But if guardian needs a nerf or warriors boosted to kill guardians, yet you as a warrior player have never lost to a guardian in wvw. What does that say about warriors? Are they ok then? Since you said you don’t have trouble killing guardians. Or is it a l2p play issue in regards to the other warriors but you.

Maybe you could help them out by creating a tutorial on how to properly kill guardians.

Meandor Berdor.5438:

I found a video of a (good) tanky warrior in WvW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBJ3lUCB5I0

Its kind of old but nice find man!

Meandor Berdor.5438:

Aza.2105:

So where is the extreme amount of mitigation coming from? I’m trying to see where you are coming from, but I’m just not seeing what you are referring to. Perhaps its some sort of exploit? There was a exploit awhile back with protectors strike, but that was fixed.

Don’t forget the passive/active heal we get from our F2 skill. But also a warrior has (if traited and in full clerics gear) a heal of over 2000 from a single shout.

True, they also have a passive regen from their healing signet. So its possible they can match guardian passive regen. Plus, they have a high regen boon uptime with their banners too.

Sil.4560:

Heh, if you’re gonna insult me by claiming “imaginary scenarios”, despite the fact that they’re easy to see within a couple of minutes of WvW, I’m not really interested. I like discussing the game with people but sometimes these forums are out of control.

With regards to the warrior skills, Shield Stance sometimes bugs and lets you get CC’d through it and Endure/Defy Pain only prevents direct damage, so…eh. They’re a couple of those things we’re hoping for bug fixes/tweaks on. They’re good, but could use some work I think.

I’m not trying to insult you, sorry man.

Shelter works just like shield stance, sometimes it gets bugged and I get CCed. Tends to happen a lot with knockdowns. Shield stance lasts much longer when you have it traited.

And renewed focus is like endure/defy pain, you are only invulnerable against direct damage. Condition damage still ticks for damage. The biggest advantage Endure/Defy pain has over renewed focus is that you can still use your skills. Where as guardian can’t unless they are instant.

So blocks and invulnerability can’t be the mitigation you are referring to, because warrior has both (as well as other classes) and warriors has a longer duration. Again, you said its not dodge because guardians don’t tend to dodge. But I’d say its the only form of mitigation guardian has that warrior doesn’t. Warrior has a dodge+ damage trait were guard has dodge+ heal trait.

So where is the extreme amount of mitigation coming from? I’m trying to see where you are coming from, but I’m just not seeing what you are referring to. Perhaps its some sort of exploit? There was a exploit awhile back with protectors strike, but that was fixed.

Well you have been mentioning up their extreme mitigation, provided imaginary scenarios of it but you never have mentioned up exactly what allows them to mitigate so much damage.

I ruled out dodging because you said most guardians don’t dodge.

I thought about blocking since you mentioned up how great it is that warriors are getting unblockables. But then I thought how warrior has shield stance which is like shelter minus the gimpy heal.

Then I thought about invulnerability or renewed focus with guardian. But then warrior has endure pain and defy pain, which I’d say is better than renewed focus.

Those are the only types of mitigation I can think of. I play guardian and you said I should know, I’d tell you selfless daring dodge (the honor trait). You can heal while dodging, but ele has this too. But again, you said guardians don’t tend to dodge. So this still leaves me scratching my head, wondering what you are referring to.

Sil.4560:

Bah, just lost my entire message. That’s annoying. I’ll just say now that if you play your guardian, you know exactly how to mitigate damage. Not to sound harsh, but don’t sit there and try to troll me by asking questions like that when you’re mostly like going to respond with the contrary, no matter what I say. “Sandra” already has that covered in this thread to an irrational extreme.

I’d like to think it’s fairly common knowledge that the game does have a ‘bunker problem’ and that the SotG stuff is meant to reflect this. I mean, I get it, you don’t want things to be stronger against guardian. But for the sake of balance they’re going to have to be and I think Anet finally agrees.

What in the world are you talking about? And what does this has to do with my question????

Sil.4560:

I’m not really sure how else to explain it, other than saying the same mitigation that allows them to do something like easily survive that was also way overkill against a single warrior, hence the efforts with unblockable attacks and whatnot. It was an example to show this.

Which skills are they using to achieve this?

Sil.4560:

Mostly I was just using it as an example of the extreme mitigation that I imagine the unblockable attacks were meant to dealt with. Obviously nobody is going to take a zerg alone, but the tankiness just becomes more profound in the smaller scale, hence the attempts at balance I suppose.

I still don’t understand? And you didn’t answer my question really. So what does this tanky guardian do? Just run back and forth into the zerg and get away? Does it even kill anyone? What kind of objectives does it achieve by running back and forth in between the zerg? And in your scenario of this guardian fighting many warriors and five other players, what do they do? Are they running away from those players? Or are they trying to fight them and successfully winning?

Sil.4560:

Quite possibly. Like I said though, it’s not really hard to watch a Guard just walk through a zerg to get into a keep or back to their own lines even with a ton of people focusing them. It’s that level of negation which I suspect prompted stuff like the unblockable Signet of Might change and added power against boons to beef up the hits that do connect. Something was needed in response. Whether this is a good fix or not…I guess we’ll see.

What are these guardians doing besides walking through zergs?

Svarty.8019:

Guardians will need something desperately to make up for “boons” that are just a hindrance now.

Looking for minimal boon specs.

I guess a 1h sword/torch build with signets. Or replace the 1h with scepter. That is probably the way guardian can minimize their boons.

Warlord.9074:

The reason is because ANET definition of a warrior, is a class that cannot deal with enemy boons or conditions, so it must go through them and get help from alies to remove its own conditions. This was stated long ago. I’m glad they are finally addressing this.

Yes this is true, but they also state:

Guardian
The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure.They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.

eldain stenlund.4306:

are you realy sad you can no longer run around with perma 8 boons on you and your allies and not have a disadvantage ??

I say:
yes. please make this patch happen.
and also, give more classes the option to deal more dmg against boons.

Maybe, just Maybe. guardians can stop being the boring boonbot it is now,
And actually be a more fun Active guardian.

After all, IF a-net is making the only thing guardians are good at for the moment into a possible disadvantage. (being a boring boon bot)…
They also are forced to give something in return to compensate.

Better shields. Better defense traits. More real Guardian, simply more fun.

I’d say 85% of guardian skills automatically give boons. This is true with their weapon sets as well, except scepter, 1h sword and torch. None of which are used because of they aren’t too great.

So what are you asking guardians to do? Make a build that doesn’t incorporate boons? How exactly will they do that?

eldain stenlund.4306:

Better shields… Better Defense traits.
Better feeling to actually be a guardian, and not a boon bot.

I’m all for this, but I highly doubt it will happen.

Sil.4560:

Then more changes are necessary – and coming. Warriors get stuck with awful PvP for the longest time, but when they finally get something to deal with the comparatively OP nonsense all of the other classes have to offer, people act like the sky is falling. I find it hilarious.

Yes and this is the problem “getting stuck with a spec”. There was no such thing in gw1.

Sil.4560:

Aza.2105:

The boon duration for lyssa’s runes last only 5 secs. Its not a big deal, since one doesn’t have to use the set. For guardian however, its a big deal. The majority of guardian skills provide boons, so now they will effectively debuff themselves against boon hate warriors.

I don’t have a problem with counter builds, however I have a problem with the lack of choice in gw2 compared to the original. If a warrior spec boon hate or unblockables, I could just change to something different to counter that build. In gw2 this isn’t the case and guardian players will be stuck debuffing themselves until the devs decide to do something about it.

Its probably a good opportunity to look at how they can start introducing some variety with each class.

After this long of being sick of all of the brainless boon bunker builds, I’m okay with guardians taking a hurting until Anet figures out an alternative. They can spend a little time feeling like warriors. The next guardians I see in WvW expecting to face tank my high damage with little effort like before are in for a very rude awakening.

But yes, variety would be nice.

Guardians go bunker in pvp because the other specs just aren’t very good. They can do damage yes, but its dps, not burst. Traditionally in pvp, dps is far inferior to burst damage. Another problem is, with guardian smart players just run away from them. So you end up not being able to do damage. With no valid ranged weapon option, guards tend to get forced into a bunker role.

In pve its different, mobs do not run away and tend to face tank the players. So guardian’s other specs are ok.

Sil.4560:

Even with the full 27% boost, one of those is a -33% reduction in damage, since protection is strong as kitten. Finding it hard to feel sympathy. =p

The boon duration for lyssa’s runes last only 5 secs. Its not a big deal, since one doesn’t have to use the set. For guardian however, its a big deal. The majority of guardian skills provide boons, so now they will effectively debuff themselves against boon hate warriors.

I don’t have a problem with counter builds, however I have a problem with the lack of choice in gw2 compared to the original. If a warrior spec boon hate or unblockables, I could just change to something different to counter that build. In gw2 this isn’t the case and guardian players will be stuck debuffing themselves until the devs decide to do something about it.

Its probably a good opportunity to look at how they can start introducing some variety with each class.

Its unlikely for someone to have fully stacked boons often, its kind of rare. So the full 27% damage will be rarely seen.

Guardian applying boons will be like them giving their allies stacks of vulnerability lmao.

It would be nice if they added the “BEEP” sound played when calling out a target. In gw2 voice overs replaced the sound, but you don’t hear the player speak if you aren’t in range and sometimes the voice over doesn’t play at all.

wookie.8934:

Amins.3710:

We will no longer be the player to make the initial push into enemy lines.

Last I checked, Warriors we’re supposed to be the ones opening the battle, IIRC.

No they were suppose to both charge into the front lines. Anet said it themselves, they gave Guardian shadow step skills and not escape skills because they want them to teleport to the target and expected to fight there.

With that being said, in the video the devs were cautious to nerf guardian because of these changes. In fact, because of the new mechanics they expect guardian to move upward in the future.

The biggest mistake they made in the class design imo is designing them around boons. Their low hp pool and lack of burst damage is because of this fact. Its a problem because boons aren’t exclusive to guardian. Everyone has them!

Cool, giving allies boons has just become the equivalent of giving them conditions lmao.

Even if Unscathed Contender was changed to give run speed, it would still have the same problem as it does now. Aegis lasts for one hit and after that you lose the buff. UC is counter productive, since aegis isn’t really meant to be maintained. It would be better if the damage buff or in this case the run speed buff was given once aegis shatters.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

The ignorance in this game is absolutely hilarious.

-D/D Elementalists are glass burst-

• They have a higher burst than Thief. And it’s AoE.
• Yet they have the survivability of a bunker Guardian
• They have better mobility than a Thief
• They have stronger conditions than a Necromancer.
• They have 4 weapon switches on short cooldowns
• They have the best condition cleanses in the game. And they’re AoE.
• They have the best healing in the game.

It’s OP as hell on paper, and OP as hell ingame.

If we are the jack of all trades, then the Elementalist is the master of everything. Don’t flaunt about your nonexistent knowledge of Necro or Warrior, I play every class and know how each class handles. Elementalist is irrefutably overpowered.

Nerfing Might across the board will accomplish kitten near nothing.

Wow someone understands what jack of all trade means! Amazing. Too bad other players who are hellbent on protecting elementalist in its current form will agree with you.

GW1: Ranger and Assassin, I retired the Ranger when factions came out.

GW2: Guardian, but I also have a Thief that I’m trying to enjoy. Assassin feels so much more fun to play than Thief currently.

Elites are terrible in gw2, none of them have much synergy with builds. Were as with gw1, your build revolved around your elite.

And it seems to me, that Anet had a fetish with transforms. Two of guardian elites are transforms, warrior has one, ele has one, engi has one, I think all of necros are transform elites (lol), mesmer elite transforms the enemy.

Elites should of been much better versions of skill types the class already has, like for guardian they should have: A elite meditation, a elite shout, a elite spirit weapon, a elite signet, a elite symbol and a elite consecration and virtue. The same type of pattern should apply to the other classes.

And the cooldowns should be as long as normal skills, 3min cooldowns do not fit with such a fast paced game. I don’t think there were no 3min cds in gw1. I think the max I remember seeing was 1min.

They should make scorpion wire as it was in GW1:

Hex Spell. For 8…18…20 seconds, the next time you and target foe are more than 100’ apart, you Shadow Step to that foe and that foe is knocked down. This spell has half the normal range.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Scorpion_Wire

Alestes.4081:

People stopped using them because they then had to actually think how and when they used them.

Correction, No one ever used them because they were always lackluster.

People barely used them before the nerf, which is why the nerf came off as a surprise for most.

Apolo.5942:

Baam.2493:

The biggest difference is what mechanics they can fulfill, (peeling, stomping, bunkering, rezzing, killing, providing utility, support, teammate condi clears, condis, CC, mobility, etc.) and how well they can do it. This is really just an issue with you being not yet 100% familiar with the game.

P.S.: I get that you are not happy with GW2, but stop with the toxic comments in other threads. Try to keep the forum environment constructive and positive

I made no toxic comments, this are realities that many of us dislike. I am glad you are happy with the current state of the game, how ever a rather large majority seems not to be. When a game renown for its pv kitten alvaged thanks to its pve, then there is clearly an issue there. When so many people leave and complain the about the same things then you should pay attention to it, i own GW1 expansions and I would not buy GW2 expansion even if they were 50% off, heck i would take a reimbursement if they offered one on the GW2 core set. They experimented with the Design and it failed, there is no reason the game cant be salvaged yet, Its pve will not keep it alive forever.

PS: Now that is a rant and a toxic comment.

There was nothing toxic about your comments. I don’t think what you’ve said has been well received because the people responding probably never played gw1 pvp, so they have no idea what you are saying.

I’m a gw1 vet, gw2 pvp isn’t even close to the level of gw1 pvp. Many fans of the original migrated to gw2 in hopes to experience the next level of pvp. But instead they got something that is far inferior to gw1. The roles have significantly reversed, while gw1 pve was lackluster but pvp phenomenal. Gw2 pve is great but pvp is generally lacking.

And I suspect just as in the original gw1, were they couldn’t fix pvp due to the basic mechanics gw1 revolved around. Gw2 pvp may suffer the same fate.

hackks.3687:

I’m not sure why anyone would want to be melee only. the versatility of combining ranged attacks with melee attacks is fairly potent. That’s half the reason I bought the game right there.

Well some classes like guardian don’t really have range options. But you statement can be reversed too, should range have melee skills? There really isn’t a reason for them to do so.

Well ele is suppose to be the jack of all trade class. The problem I see is, they forgot to include the “master of none” part. As it stands ele can outperform the primary strengths that other classes are suppose to be good at. They have better mobility than thieves, and probably better heals and boon up time than guardians.

And while they are suppose to have access to those type of strengths they aren’t suppose to out do those classes who are built around those functions. I think as a whole the ele class (this applies to all the classes in game) will be difficult to fix without breaking something and making them entirely unplayable.

From the beginning the pvp system in this game has been extreme, its either THIS or THAT but nothing in between. So far, nothing has really changed. I’d blame the dev simplifying the gw1 pvp system so much and forgetting to keep intact the things that made gw1 pvp great in the first place.

At this point its probably best to rework the entire pvp foundation than to continue to build upon a flawed one.

DiogoSilva.7089:

I honestly wouldn’t want to see the healing scale to be toned down, or at least not much, or else this would make the healing power stat a bit useless.

They already did this with guardian months ago and the class is still pretty good. I’m not sure why ele hasn’t taken a nerf to healing abilities. Unless I overlooked it.

Scar Of The Lotus.5631:

From what i can see, the immobilize on the 3 skill is made so that it is easier to get damage off with the scepter; both the 1 skill and 2 skill.

So, every 20 seconds we are able to hit someone with the auto attack and symbol of smite? Sounds wonderfully, balanced.

Often times, symbol of smite barely hits. If the target moves slightly. Even better is it requires 15 hits to do full damage. In most cases one is lucky to get several hits off.

Sandra Martino.3870:

We need a dev commenting on this. Unlike almost everything else posted in this forum, this matter is actually important.

Good luck with that. I think I’ve seen Anet post on the Guardian forums once or twice since launch.

Is there any way to view your own achievements on the leaderboard?

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Fear is a CC/stun-like ability, not a condition.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pure_of_Voice

Sil.4560:

Iavra.8510:

\Here lies your fundamental problem. I have to admit, i am a huge fan of 1v1’s but in it’s core, GW2 is balanced for group combat. If you have to rely on “random people” that’s either because your group is bad or it doesn’t exist at all. I would suggest you find a good coordinated group that uses TS3 or the like for communication and you will see a huge difference in your playing results.

I’m primarily talking about dungeons. I’m rarely in the mood to listen to people prattle in voice chat, so I opt not to use it most days and my guild isn’t frequently on it either. We perform just fine, however not everyone is on at the same times and on occasion PUGs are necessary. I take pride in being the lone survivor or person to carry us through a difficult fight if need be. I also find that if players absolutely have to rely on voice chat to be effective, they aren’t very good players to begin with and are using it as a crutch to compensate for their lack of awareness.

Further, trying to argue that a game cannot be balanced for both group combat and single combat seems like a lazy copout and an excuse to hide behind guardians’ absurd tanking advantage in the current system.

Aza.2105:

That’s intended according to Anet, did you know that they gave warrior a large hp pool to compensate for their lack of condition removal skills? Its suppose to be their weakness and the moment that changes then they will become overpowered. Just as if Guardian had mobility and a large hp pool they would be overpowered.

A large initial HP pool is inherently inferior to the ability to easily sustain a smaller HP pool. Case in point, D/D Ele. You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about.

And by no means am I saying Anet’s balancing strategy is working, there will always be issues. However, you championing a guardian nerf while negating how it will effect the game is wrong. If they gave warrior’s ways to remove conditions on par with lets say guardian, then they would have to lower their total health pool as well. If they did that then I’d say it would be fair in terms of how they have the game set up now.

It doesn’t need to be “on par” in that particular area, however conditions such as chill should not immediately shut most warriors down and as such some balancing is needed. Insisting that I made such a claim that warriors need to have equal defensive capabilities to guardians is a blatant misrepresentation of my post.

I have no idea what I’m talking about? You act as if I’m making it up. So tell that to anet, I don’t make the game man. In case you haven’t figured out, they gave a detailed description of the each classes role and how they tried to balance them.

You are saying that you don’t want to be on par with guardian, yet you are on the guardian forum section talking about how guardian is much better than warrior etc. How they are essentially easy mode. So if its true that "Oh please, most guardians I’ve seen are nigh immortal with such little effort it’s laughable. " Then perhaps your problem lies in the fact that you aren’t skill enough to play warrior and you should consider another class.

Sil.4560:

The problem is, most other classes don’t have that drawback. Saying, “You get screwed by conditions” is just a HUGE mistake in practice, especially in a PvP setting where it’s easily abused and pretty much every other class has better sustain. As far as going solo, if both players are solo, the guardian and other more “sustain” classes obviously have an advantage with very little effort. It’s just the way this game’s combat works, and that needs fixed.

Personally I hate having to rely on random people for anything. Almost nobody is going to intentionally cure your chill and/or cripple and healing others is pretty much a joke. Not to mention that in 1v1, classes should have balanced alternatives to fight one another, not this rock-paper-scissors crap.

That’s intended according to Anet, did you know that they gave warrior a large hp pool to compensate for their lack of condition removal skills? Its suppose to be their weakness and the moment that changes then they will become overpowered. Just as if Guardian had mobility and a large hp pool they would be overpowered.

And by no means am I saying Anet’s balancing strategy is working, there will always be issues. However, you championing a guardian nerf while negating how it will effect the game is wrong. If they gave warrior’s ways to remove conditions on par with lets say guardian, then they would have to lower their total health pool as well. If they did that then I’d say it would be fair in terms of how they have the game set up now.

Sil, so basically what you are saying is that guardian is a forgiving class because the players you have seen go bunker aka tank. If you are saying that you seen some glass cannon spec guardian be able to face roll and rely on its op defense then you aren’t speaking the truth.

Mostly all guardians play a bunker type. Because the other builds lead to a quick death due to " low levels of innate health." A bunker build is a tank build, tank builds are able to survive a long time. Perhaps if you made a warrior bunker build instead of making a dps build expecting the results of a bunker, then your perspective would change.

Because I’m sure that is the issue, you aren’t running a high toughness, vitality, defensive build. But you are running a glass cannon expecting to be able to take punishment like a bunker.

Soryuju.8164:

Rump Buffalo.2594:

i love how everyone is raging about this without having any idea how it will be implemented… as a trait or signet there is no problem with it

also no one stated damage or anything so….can we all calm down until they actually give specifics or we see who gets it and how in 10 days?

Unfortunately, this is the GW2 community, and while it has many positive contributors, there’s an unspoken rule that incoming changes, regardless of the information available, must be greeted with hysteria and outrage. As we can clearly see by the evidence presented in this thread, the fact that Warriors and Thieves are getting a damage boost against Guardians (if they take a certain trait, most likely) is going to ruin Guardian viability in all game modes. They will be unusable in SPvP, TPvP, casual dueling, WvW solo roaming, WvW small group combat, WvW zerging, WvW keep defense, and (apparently), PvE dungeons, because of that extra 10% damage or so. Never mind the incoming nerf to the Thief’s Mug trait or the death of permastealth, or the fact that Warriors are currently considered the weakest PvP class in the game. Full boon duration bunker is also apparently the only Guardian build that exists, and other Guardian builds will be rendered useless by mere association with it, even if they only end up taking 3% extra damage from these classes.

As I stated before in this thread, I’m not completely sure this is the best approach to dealing with the issue, and I think just increasing the amount of boon removal available would be a better fix, but it’s times like these that make me wonder if the Guardian community’s gotten spoiled from the buffs and fixes in recent patches. Guardian and Mesmer are currently the only classes desirable in all major game modes, and giving two other classes the ability to do some extra damage against us if they specifically build for it isn’t going to change that in the slightest.

Anyways, I don’t really expect this post to do anything to stop the stream of angry responses, so carry on.

Bunker builds are strong due to the nature of the gameplay mode in pvp. Which is hold a point. If they were to introduce more aggressive forms of pvp, like a death match or assault type map, then you wouldnt see bunkers often.

Sil.4560:

Aza.2105:

Apparently that’s what they are suppose to do. Use boons to make up for all of their weaknesses. So because of that reason, they are working as intended.

The problem is not with guardian I’d say, but its with elementalist. Its similar to what the devs said in the interview in regards to thief’s mobility. That ele is in fact more mobile than them. Which is true. So in that respect, you can also say that ele is equally as good as being a boon warrior than guardian is, while having things that guardian does not aka mobility and ways to escape combat.

So in short, the guardian class is being punished for the imbalance of ele. Which isn’t right. As noted in the interview, they are the jack of all trades class. Meaning they can do everything but can’t excel at anything in particular. What should really be done is rebalancing ele so that statement is true and not nerfing boons.

Oh please, most guardians I’ve seen are nigh immortal with such little effort it’s laughable. The problem with this is that they’ve taken classes, made “boons” their specialty for some bizarre reason, and then expected other classes to do just fine against them without insane crap like a 33% damage reduction on top of perpetual regen on top of reflecting damage, etc. Personally, I’m for a form of “boon hate” because it might make people think a little bit before just LOLPERMABUFF all day long and then facerolling everything they come across.

Its great how you leave out the fact that none boon oriented classes have: More burst damage than guardian, more health, more mobility, more CC.

Fletch.3572:

It doesn’t make sense in my simple little brain. Don’t these classes with all these boons need them to make up for disparities elsewhere? Turning buffs into debuffs on yourself I just cannot fathom.

Balance these boons you are finding too powerful is what my split pea sized brain is telling me.

Well the main problem seems to be with d/d elementalist. As described ele is suppose to be the jack of all trades class. Yet they perform better than classes designed to do one function. They have more mobility than a thief and can keep boons up better than a guardian, all while maintaining mobility, versatility, moderate damage and means to escape at will.

If they implement boon hate then it will definitely hurt guardian since they are suppose to be boon warriors. Such a mechanic would be adverse to their inherent design. So we’ll have a class that has slow mobility, no ways to escape and low hp who now takes extra damage for the amount of boons it has running. When in fact, those weaknesses I listed exist to balance the fact that they are made powerful through boons.

I don’t want to rant but, I think Anet really needs to provide a test server to let the players test the proposed changes before they go live.

wintermute.4096:

Saital.4819:

They mentioned it’s a mechanic that will have to be specifically specced or traited into. A thief who specs into boon hate may do more damage to boon stacked targets, but will do less overall to most targets. It’s a form of specialization and counterbuilding.

This exactly. What this game direly needs is a real meta, along with true build diversity and for that we need to establish ways to build and counter build against certain tactics.

“Boon hate” doesn’t mean thieves (or whoever) will get the ability to instantly make guardians roll over and die, it means they can specialize in killing bunkers, which is completely fine by itself. It will come at a cost in other areas, most likely burst damage against non-boon stackers, which would be a reasonable trade to make and not neccessarily op.

What you are saying is true yes, but what you are essentially saying is that the thief will have the “choice” of choosing to be a boon hate build or useful against non boon oriented players.

The problem is, for guardian there isn’t much of a choice to choose to be boon oriented or not. In fact, as anet stated, the entire class revolves around keeping boons up. So the addition of boon hate is anti guardian. It would be different if guardian running boons was a optional thing, however its not. Also as some mentioned, it would make guardian giving boons to the party more of hindrance than being helpful. Since in fact you would be making them vulnerable to boon hate builds.

Sil.4560:

Oh no, Guardians might not be able to mash their kitten against the keyboard and expect to survive?!

Apparently that’s what they are suppose to do. Use boons to make up for all of their weaknesses. So because of that reason, they are working as intended.

The problem is not with guardian I’d say, but its with elementalist. Its similar to what the devs said in the interview in regards to thief’s mobility. That ele is in fact more mobile than them. Which is true. So in that respect, you can also say that ele is equally as good as being a boon warrior than guardian is, while having things that guardian does not aka mobility and ways to escape combat.

So in short, the guardian class is being punished for the imbalance of ele. Which isn’t right. As noted in the interview, they are the jack of all trades class. Meaning they can do everything but can’t excel at anything in particular. What should really be done is rebalancing ele so that statement is true and not nerfing boons.

Auesis.7301:

Oh my god, I thought I’d seen the worst of community over-reactions before. This just takes the cake.

Look at yourselves. Just look at yourselves. We have almost NO information aside from a label, that is, “boon hate”. It’s pretty much implied that it won’t be a “mechanic”, it’ll be ways for professions with little access to boons to more easily tackle boon-heavy bunkers. That is literally it, and already you’re all up in arms. You’re all ridiculous.

I hate this community.

Given Anet’s track record of nerfs for the guardian class, I’d say the community has the right to over react. Because more than likely it will be justified.

I expect boon hate to be completely untested, broken and released AS IS when the patch comes (we know anet doesn’t have a ptr or anything). I then expect Guardians and other classes who run boons to say how completely broken the mechanic is.

Then what will happen is the usual, complete silence from anet. The next month they will patch it to nerf boon hate by 5% and to compensate for guardian taking the short stick of it, they will increase guardian’s base health by 5 hp.

What akamon doesn’t mention about trait X (instant meditation), is the fact that it allows you to use meditations while doing skills. So if you are in mid animation of mighty blow, whirling wrath or ANYTHING, you can use the meditations. This is a big buff, especially with smite condition, because you can deliver some good damage. Basically it allows you to use two skills at once. Were as without it, you have to wait until you finish casting a skill to use a meditation.

Why is there no cleric ascended back piece? :<

With daylight savings, dailies should be changed to reset earlier. 8pm est is far too late, doubt anet will listen though.

The fix is simple:

1. Take aspects of wvw and minimize it.

2. Create three sides, Kurzick, Luxon and insert faction name here

3. Limit each side to 15 players each.

4. Call it Alliance Battle

5. Success