Guild Wars 2

it seems to me fasistic, if there will be democracy.. illiterate.. Education is must

Lets do some comparetion pvp mesmer & zerg mesmer(in os gvg maybe)
Staff,

• phase retreat, where u positon your self as in spvp where staffs most efficient is come from
• chaos storm, lemon grass? Not holding point as pvp, mobile train..
• iwarlock, think to use it on periphery, projectile slow even not foe dodging, movements can evade it + plus lemon grass
• aa= efficient is more in pvp than wvw..

GS

• not much different than pvp style EXCEPT
  Possibility to hit with izerker.. if on melee train cant pressure fair compare to pvp izerken can.. How mesmer is good with group support on pressure for caps in pvp with team fights.. and if ure regular shatter in gvg and used izerker to melee train izerken can Highly obstructed/insta dead maybe without 1 hit and for insta shatter u risked your f1 for nothing.. And u know it is just only respected damage aoe skill on mesmer..

Sword,

• Blurred frenzy how is very good on team fights pressure in pvp however which is not meta..
  its meta in large scale fights cuz of lacking better positioning self compare to spvp, and most reason that it is meta cuz of posibility to ve very big bursts on u can be.. And using for veil makes u more u should closer to commander(who are very first line),
  And bf bursts in gvg is sucha lame cuz of enemies can have perma retal(organized group)

Other things large scale vs spvp

• no respawn (u cant risk as in pvp ) if u re dead your efficint become “0”
• less unconnection time, there will have constant action in gvg.. Exp in pvp there some unconnection to action beteeen caps.
• less efficient positioning( being close to thiefs) as mostly why torch is more meta or smth as mandatory.
• aoe cap, where skills can be more efficient with maxing your cap in wvw but in pvp enviroment is differ with hardly possible to max cap skill.. And other classes?

Bahhh bla bla bla just bored with these and i leap can make any sense.. ??? Bla bla bla

Yeeaah yupiiii Yess mesmer have Veillllll! its enough for everything..

just my opinions.. More/less subj/obj right/wrong

/Holyscrub
/Azo Holycrab

i really would like watch helseth and supcutie in any organized competitive large acale geoup.. And would like to hear what they ll think about the class in kind of zergs..

Probably will be the same words as other competitive large scale players..
Mesmer is not viable.. Just would required for veil.. if not have veil better to go other classes will be more efficient.. Because mesmer will not better melee train as guards or war.. Will not periphery hunter efficient as thiefs.. Or enemy melee pressure or support as ele or necros.. in overall productivity..

But most argument is coming from is.. " if anet already said in offical that balances include wvw(large scale mechanics) " so Wtf is this?? it is shame NOT FAiR, NOT ETHiC!!! Am i wrong

i ll try to be objective..
answer is All/none or some/most them

Zerg: Means Large scale Group

Zerging includes;

• Groups: PuG or organized sync grouping
• Players: slacker, challenging-competitive, casual, trolling, high end or scrub players
• Goals: farming, e-sporting, training/testing/practicing, ranking goals..
  ——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
  i wanna talk about non PuG zergs..

What does zerging do?

• GvG ing: as in Obsidan Sanctrum(OS) Death Matches
  - Players/Group, who are synced, organized, role speced, synergied, challenging with primarly goal of Play for Win! (but as sparring matches, or any goal can be in theorical except farming)
  Difference of GvG in os then WvW random encountering zerging, gvg matches has..
  Fair Enviorenment!
  o Same numbered
  o No respawn/res dead
  o with rounds
  o limited arena
  o un offical ranks
  o Competitiveness
  o and other practical minor rules
  o cant be blobb ing

• Guild Raiding: Roaming in WvW Maps!
  - Players/Group, synced, organized, role specced, challenging but role can be
  any of them but primarly(most uses) farming

example of gvg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05lnj7zgsvQ voice commands available

Mesmer mantra heal effectiveness is just good vs pvd under ac raining.. Cuz u will nothing need to do than heal..

Example in tpvp who is top mesmer if he says that if he would play thief he would be better usefull.. Lord helseth..
And in guild vs guild large grouping compositon deathmatch mode.. Except having veil.. All high end mesmers say all other profs can do better efficient/useful than mesmer.. in any role/mission.. ( ran and eng not included)
An these nerfs or however u say bigfixes push mesmer less efficient..
Am i wrong?
Why when i play another classes, i am more usefull to my organized geoup? Compare to mesmer? And veil boting.. is just unfair to nature of gaming..

as i am GvG oriented Mesmer player.. i look 1 thing!!!

Why SHould i CHoose Mesmer in our organized synced large group composition??
- There is no restriction to choose any other classes
- Mesmer Compare to vs other classes in Efficient/Productivity (skipping eng and ranger [not knowladged about them])

• yes… just for Veil! nothing more… wierd… will not have any seats if not have veil :S
  i wish mesmer has no veil.. other classes will do more better things/awards with lower risks in any style/role

so nerfs… drowning to mesmer more deeps.. letting it less desirable/efficient/make room/fun… nerfs push mesmer to more lower who are already at the bottom…

and sorry i forgot what was scrub means? means who is playing game not for win… ?

yes play the game for win!

Thiefs efficient increase on Organized non pug ed deathmatches as GvG.. With hunting down to peripheries.. With his sync ed focus party.. And more efficient than eng ranger and Mes.. And whereas those 3 classes doesnt have any respected role just mes has veil boting(if not have veil doesnt require to any organized groups in terms of effectfulness) and cant say who is most efficient in gvg but most seats goes to gua and wars to strengt melee train to let peripheries as ele necro to do their job more efficient.. This is meta in organized groups.. kitten balanced runners

My main is mesmer, in wvw i tried little bit war and i was feeling i am doing rock&roll.. Warriors try mesmer in large scale fights and compare how efficint u will be.. Better not use veil.. Be 2nd mesmer who is bot required for veil mesmer..

if i would say war balanced, what u think about mesmer.. And re think war in wvw Large organizations

Childish arguments… Nerf or bug fixes.. Answer this what are competitive modes in GW2… ? Just tpvp.. Mean organized 5v5 fair customizationed structured game.. And gw2 mechanic is from scruby(casual or not as challenged game style- p vs e programmed(always same robotic environment) to 5v5 structured style (caping).. Large scale gaming is not offical competitive mode..

Yes so balance philosophy not include unoffical large scale game mod and gw2 base mechanic..

So anet is just Lied with say which game balance should include zergs.. Which is un respectfull.. So there should ve reasons about all.. With many theories..

? wish mesmer never had veil or portal.. Or i should play another class ele necro guard or war maybe thief as main

Or if ileap things is bug fix—> it means to me..
?n wvw , mesmer getting more ignorance to let them play instead slot botting who is already low efficient to group composition compare to other classes that instead 2nd mesmer taking another classes is makes group compositon withmore possibility of win.. And
All anet was about say with balances should include all game modes was just lie..

Tl;dr there wil be no perspective to adaptade mesmer to large scale enviroment with excuse of mesmer have veil portal thats enough.. —> mesmer ignored to let him play in any role with same level efficient compare to other classes.. Which is shame.. To zerg mesmer community..
+ many things..

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fl0npMtNqxKNcrNyqxY6W2ZlTtUp3I7AA-TFyCABpobAgLAwxHEAfU/Z59Ho4JAklyvxUCSKAYmGB-w maybe would try this one.. was

was using 0 20 30 20 0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-OKwDp-TYM

yes agree..
mesmer shatter is 20 20 0 0 30 < PU x 20 30 0 0 and
mesmer < DD ele or exactly for thief
MESMER = struggle except veil efficient
however
self sufficient skills may > Mesmer (mean ofc mesmer player who is efficient with self sufficient can be bigger than other classes efficients)

making GvG Composition = taking most efficient Players (as above example)

make Offical GvG Mode Anet!
which has, the same customization as in hearth of the mist for Large Scale fights..

or

SHUT UP anet! and say offically that large scale(+5 players are ignorant)and dont say balances should be to all modes in gw2 as example of Ready up #15..

RESPECT!! at least we are customers!!

in other words…

• What is mesmer for?
• What mesmer can do beter than other classes?
• Mesmer?

- in WvW organized Large Scale non-PuG Compositions.. in other words..
- in GvG compositions [GvG]
- in sync ed large scale organizations [Raids]
?
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

• Remember!
  Ready Up 15-Balance Philosophy
  Offical Say from Anet: Yes, Balances should be done to all game modes in gw2?
  ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
• Remember!
  So iLeap bug fix/nerf..
  Game Update Notes – July 1, 2014
  Illusionary Leap: Fixed a bug that allowed players to swap places with their clone after it was destroyed.
  ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

SO meta since early of game(since BF got nerfed)
- yes until BF nerf happened mesmer had seats on zergs
- yes before glamour nerfed mesmer had more seats in zergs
- But meta,, and future.. ?

• As everybody knows most reason of Mesmer have seats in Organized Large Scale compositions is primarly Veil atm..

theories about it in zergs..

• Veil > other classes in overall efficient.. (mandatory.. not mean Mesmer class, i mean ``Veil``skill )
• Mesmer except being veil < other classes in overall efficient.. (other classes in any meta role spec)
• Mesmer Periphery Hunter (focus party) (Skirmisher) < Thief or DD ele
• Mesmer Pressurer to train (Peripherying) < Staff ele, Necro
• Mesmer Melee/Train ing (Tanking).. Null < Guards, Wars
• Mesmer Support < Staff ele, Guards
  ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
  in Conclusion, i see Mesmer is not required in any role in Zergs!
  ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
  So i ve a questions!
• if iLeap has nerf as it.. Wheras Anet already said in Ready up 15.. (they accept balances should be done in all modes prespective with their Balance Philosophy topic)
  so, WHAT IS THE REASON OF NERFING/FIXING iLEAP IN ALL MODES?
  pls Folks help me with this question!(ve already ignoring anet to answer it)
  ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
  or am i wrong? why i feel that i am more useful to my organization while i play eles, necro, guard or war.. where as my experiance is %80 Mesmer with 3k hours (null pve) (silver wvw rank +60 pvp)
  ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

The balance u ve called cannot reach atm pls try later…

@Blizkrig pls dont look from horse glasses.. This Patch is something like when u try to make eyebrowns, u took out the eyes..

Excusemee but there was a really important question which is already asked —> ready up! —> balance philosophy will include large scale fights??? They already answered in offically yes!!! So… ? What s the reason of thAt ileap ?? Such shame from anet.. They Again ignoring gvg/raid based community.. Yes need answer .. Cuz what i understand anet say gtfo there will be no balance for large scale fight environments.. AM i Wrong?

bah.. it looks like role playing interview..

and what Studio Design Director`s job definition?
problem solving in team environment?

so the problem u ve called can not reach atm pls try again..
—> mesmer have no problem in wvw.. or.. some of things as in above posts..
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Mesmer-was-only-nerfed/4168006

i wanna read this thread.. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvX-Balance-Iteration-Wrongdoing/3680985

more over for s#3.. i u wanna talk about wvw(raid/gvg) structured..

it requires experiance(understanding gvg/raid requirements for mesmer) and objectiveness,

• Mesmer —> why he is veil bot?
  - mesmer have veil..
  - veil mean.. in raids example such a op skill.. that can let u win with ambushing enemy.. (is mostly cuz of enemy puggy/scrubby gaming) or in gvg is one of top efficient it can add to your guild composition efficient [compisition can will feel it when it happens to u or to foes]
  - cuz of lacking overall efficient- guess u dont have veil.. what u can do better compare to other classes?? (pls dont say we have reflection i am guessing fair guild deathmatches non PuGed) thief vs mesmers in terms of taking down (dps or burst) or aoe pressure or survivial or mobility or support ¿ ele? staff/dd ? guards ? wars? necros?

tell me mesmer do this better than others and add what he cant do to summary overall efficient to guild composition in how efforts he did or risked already in terms of various rewards..

bla bla bla.. all EMPTY TALKS..

blitzkrieg.2451:

selan.8354:

lol no we dont we use necros thief squad and maybe 1 mes for veil at the start in a lot of guild that are good in gvg. and im in tier 2 so yeah. thief>mes. maybe in 20v20 u can afford 2 mes but in 15v15 u use maaaaybe 1 mes and 2 thieves a couple of eles and the rest is heavy train. but honestly engi is taking over the ganking in gvg’s lately way more with the thieves.

What guild would ever use engi in a gank group? What the kitten lol. I watch [Agg] play consistently. They run 3 mesmers at times but usually 2 in their gank with 2 thieves. I watch [NS] gvg consistently, they the same. I watch [EP] gvg consistently they the same. [Ark] is the same. Similarities between these? All top tier GvG guilds. [Agg] is probably the best GvG guild in the game currently and arguably with [NS] as they’re sort of neck and neck. They run multiple mesmers in their gank. Please don’t try to spill mis-information. Just because some random kittenty guild is running 1 mes and decided to run engi doesn’t automatically make it viable or good. Also, necros belong with the train because wells are op to counter train, and the warriors peel while guardians blob – what necro would run with the gank, and what guild would put an engi in their gank? Wow

@blitzkrieg,

• eng, i already skipped them cuz i am none exp with them and can not see any in atm gvg composition, if early gvg i remember some of them but mostly was experimental or dunno how they used them.. probably personal choice (gvg customization is not same as pvp customization) u gonna use what u ve.. etc..
• rangers, low effficient to overall guild composition compare to other classes as mesmer.. however mesmer have veil..
• i am from eu (retired – or passive/slack mode cuz of real life issues and getting lost of hope for offical gvg game mode) and atm if we say best eu gvg guild is TA(who are some mix of already top gvg ranked players [most of them from rg] whom are already done with eu and transfered na) in pure logic or in calculation of overall efficient.. all classes > mesmer, eng, ranger [guess u already have mesmer for veil]
• calculation in overall efficient is: all other classes make their role better than mesmer (except having unique skill veil) mean for secondary mesmer..
• if there is a second mesmer its primarly for veil as well..
• cuz in all spec in gvg ( as perip huntering supporting tanking(train)) other classes make better + differences than mesmer in terms of equal self sufficient skills —> in use of risk&reward..

i am suggestion make offical gvg game mode

• ranks
• maps
• free customization
• structures (as how atm gvg is being make as death match)
• rewards of being accomplishes
• 1 server as pvp
• and others..

then it would be fit.. or play however u like to play if dont like gtfo..

(change on sword #3)(ve not read any replies of topic yet)

theories what i thought in first.. Why anet could done it?

• 1 Crafting light armors(ascendants) —→ is so expansive —> they trying to decrease demand on light armor items —> Light armor classes:(Nec,Ele,Mes) Mesmer —> [Scapegoat] ``

• 2 Monarchy/Ignore —> was nothing mentionioned about Sword#3 as a bug before but pleanty, wall of texts of bugs about mesmer --→ They trying to Show of Strength —→ They know everything —> All LIE what they said officially about example.. ``how balances should be include as well from WvW prespective as in Ready Up`` —> ignoring community and adaptation of Large Scale fighting mechanic in gw2 —> They make the rules not community :S

• 3 Examine —> examine mesmer community reaction about lastly update notes ¿

• 4 Illiterate —> Anet(who accept that nerf on s#3) is just lacking knowladge and IQ.. if there is no goal of making of this nerf in terms of something..

• 5 Pushing Build Variety —> they try to make non sword builds more viable —> in zergs —> dont use mesmer for vs Blobs/zergs —> OMG such a holy …. or just stay as veil botting —> mean if i wont have veil i would not have any seats in any guild compositions as eng and rangers how it is more crappy..

• Above 1+2+3+4 = High end players —> excatly who already turned to Large scale fighting perspective players --→ Commercially —> they ve already stopped buyying gems already —> High end experianced Mesmer Community Crying —> they re intimidating/influencing to who has just started playing gw2 players —> community give bad reputation to mesmer class —> Anet cant adapt mechanic to large scale fighting —> news player profits bigger than experianced players profit (buying gems in cash)… —> if u dont like, gtfo, quit.. as how challenging/competitive gvg style players have already quit from game.. [ask top tiers gw1 gvg players about gw2 play] ahhh.. :P -- QoL —> …

• s#3 nerf was a role.. they will revert it and againg feel free to honour them self and there will be no revert for primary problems on mesmers nerfs/bugs :S in wvw which already ignored as example above #2 [BF, Glamours, Focus, more more etc..]

• Anet make s#3 more distinquish for —> push community to could give more constractive feedbacks on iLeap cons.. [changing mechanic of iLeap]

• Gw2 —> Competition —> sPvP —> nothing more —> Play How ever u like to play —> Casual/Fun/Scrub gaming —> or leave.. kitten . [get the shivers]

first toughts more&less.. god bless us all.. (ramadan here and patch notes made me drink) ighh..

@ Dawdler, yeap my english is not excelent.. ? can coclusion what i said is.. Good wine need no bush.. Large scale fights most difference is aoe.. So retal ll sux where as mesmer doesnt have much style to play = with what returns from risk, effort.. And appriciate u that u try to learn.. ?f not it would shame in contrast not knowing is shame..

Mantra heal is best for pvd :d cuz u will nothing more need than heal under ac rain

in wvw zergs

• dont use healing power on spec of restorative mantras
  - healing power just good for regen nothing more in mesmer

mashed up build :S

what will be your goal with this build ?

get ele in your group then instead mesmer..

if u want fun build it looks better for me for in zergs(get another boons share guardians in your party) http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW8dl0npAtloxKNcrNyqhc6lHDSqDlOTjAA-T1hIwAdfCAAuIAM0N0T53G1fEv/AdlgkCgdhRA-w

or http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW8fl0npAtloxKNcrNSsRY6stvT+vXymAA-TVCFwArfCA3U+lStCYqqAw8njLCgGdDw3fYgSQSBYiwI-w ?

Ulion.5476:

Curious is a greatsword build good for tagging in zergs with a mesmer? I would think that the auto attack, bouncing attack and phastasm would be able to tag alot of people?

yes we can say gs > than other skills for tags
but
Mesmer gs < other classes/weapon

• phantasms can die insta with highly posibility, where as no other classs can be obstructed/denied any damage(can u see Lava Font can die before it hits) ? :P
• except phantasms we dont have any respected aoe damage in range..

footnotes,

• Mesmer = lacking sufficing for taging
• Mesmer = lacking sufficing for roles [damage support CC etc]
• Mesmer = Boring, Veil boting = not sufficient in requires of nature wvw large scale groups except having veil/portal
• Mesmer = QoL getting decrease.. [competitive players highly changing class/pasive/quiting][compare early middle last active hardcore competitive mesmer players playing as usual]
• Mesmer = have pleanty of prejudices included coming from anet [1) missionary words(which words already planned) or lacking knowladge mesmer in practically[which required experiance/knowladge where how when mesmer in various modes excatly WvW]
• etc etc…

Topic coming from whom missed from mesmer subforums
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Mesmer-AoE-What-needs-to-be-done/4150214
———————————————————————————
appriciate who ll give time on it, for making mesmer more viable in FAIR in WvW(Zergs)

suggestions pls,
pls use link which given..

will try to make in objective/functional way,
X=anet
Y=gw2 players

A) GW2:
X= (From anet) = Money in long term = which is effects/requires of gloabalization/capital system
Y= (From customers) = Satisfaction

A 1) GW2:
X=Satisfy your customers
Y=Remember A 1)X

(offical say from ready up: balances should be in all modes in gw2..)
- Seperately, or;
- All inclusive,

A 2)Gw2:
X=Requires from players in terms of them making profit with (gems,tp,e-sport,womm etc..)
Y=Casual&Competitive, Fair, Balanced = FUN

so from my side.. my satisfaction will be the same/similar as:
BlackDevil.9268

I’m fine with anything that makes mesmer more viable in raids as long as it doesnt make mesmer become another ‘’spam aoes to win’’ prof like guardians and warriors, but sadly areanent can’t be kitten d with ’’WvW’’ because ‘’its supposed to be unbalanced’’. Pathetic to fully ignore the biggest part of your game and put the full focus on a game mode that has been going on for 2 years now, which is really boring and only promotes AI play.

• my goal: Competitive Play With my Friends in Large Scale not just 5 players[requires innovation]
• X=you(anet) already said balances includes WvW(Zergs[Large Scales])
• Y=GvG, Guild Raids

Efficient=Risk/Reward*Challenge(possibility of getting sufficient in `will`with trade offs)

• X= Mesmer: Veil Bot (only truth in wvw with anets offical say)
• Y= Mesmer: Veil Botting is just against of nature of playing game compare to other classes (skipped Ranger Eng dunno them)[in other words: i trust my skills i played mesmer %80 of my 3k+ hours play however when i play another classes with lower game play experiance i feel i am more usefull/efficient to my group organization]

Veil Bot=Mesmer is not required/dont have any seats in any organized groups in terms of `OVERALL EFFICIENT`+ in any Role[which mesmer is not better in any role compare to other classes]
—————————————————————————————————————————
dunno why i repeat them again probably cuz of not to hear something as `i hit 541241231 to… Rabbit`sarcasm..
—————————————————————————————————————————
lets be on topic,

Critizing,
Phantasms getting invul until finishing its hit..
Lets try to theory craft it: and i wanna try to compare iZerker(iZ) vs Lava Font(LF)

it will be Powerfull in this state,

wiki note:
iZ: Cleave(3) + Whirlwind attack (co efficient = 0.55)
LF: AoE(5) + Pulses(4) (co-efficient = 0.9

so guess that both skills triggered max efficient (LF: 4x AoE) and (iZ: doesnt die until its 1st hit)

LF= 4[Pulses]5[AoE]0.90[co-eficient] = 18co-efficient(20hits*0.9)
iZ= 3[Cleave]= 26.4co-efficient (48hits0.55)

will be iZ have
+ %46 more damage than LF
+ easy access of getting of +%damage on phantasms with traits
+ Cripple
+ easy/low challenge of use shatters
- 20 to 6 sec cd %233 more cd than LF
+ Burst factor (LF has 3 sec for finish all his damage[if 1st aoe would insta]) izerker is just have whirlwind channel
+ access of improvements with sinergy traits..
etc….
—————————————————————————————————————————————-
Meta atm: most efficient uses at the moment: excatly in competition
iZerker: Damage to max efficient is;
0 to 1 2 6 7 hits?? Annoying… if like to say subjectively avarage efficient iZvsLF in competitive Large scale fights is
- iZerker to periphery (4 hit if lucky)
- LF to train ( insta + 2 sec aoe if lucky)
damage will be LF will have, %513 more damage with 6 sec cd skill[which iZ is 20sec]
if spammed(included cd) LF has %29.4k more efficient to damage to other group

The reason i wrote them is..
We can be better in theory craft to accomplish mission..
so in conclusion TLDR, getting invul is not enough, we will need onjective balance/adaptation from mesmer to Large Scaled organizations..

extra how iZ hits[old as +1 year but i think ve not changed yet]

Dawdler.8521:

Ross Biddle.2367:

I jut couldnt stop thinking about how the eles, guardians, and warriors were dishing out 100x the damage you were at a constant rate with their aoe and aa spam.

But none of them are even 1/10th as fabulous as a Mesmer while doing it.

what is fabulous mean?
what are the rewards of mesmer in terms of his act risks.. and how about the ele or others..?
- great play from doiid.. appriciate.. but it is the just other side of glass.. if it would be fights as versus not blob and as similar competitive/challenged vs another organized group.. ?
i am critizng mesmer, and yes it is 10x more fabulous cuz which is most rarely happens.. depends of skillfulness of player, but not fair challenge compare to other classes.. (skipped ranger and eng dunno much them)

Guess when he shatter all bursted player had retal, + add other triigger on hit effects(optional) + f4 cd and duel gm has not triggered yet.. etc..

Korusef.3714:

Other suggestions:
1. Make illusions invulnerable for the duration of the first attack chain
2. Make ‘shattered’ illusion invulnerable
or
- Killing illusion will tag the player for the killer for the purpose of looting (as opposed to increasing the damage)
or
- Scale the health of illusion with the number of enemies

Another question is whether this should be GM trait replacing one of the useless ones or whether this should be core mechanic

+1

Odik.4587:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Azo.5860:

Weakness […] sustainability if illusions are countered

Our kitten illusions are countered by our godkitten class mechanic, you know, those shatter skills on F1 to F4.

So by using our class mechanic, we are countering our illusions ourselves and lose sustainability.

Reading/listening to ANet Dev’s is just comedy. The strengths/weaknesses philosophy they pulled out of their back probably some days before the times of the manifesto (and we all know how that went) is just not working.

Tell me, what was the design philosophy for warriors? Reading the weaknesses of the profession is like:
“You are so strong that you do not need evades. Your weakness is that you can take those hits by just standing in the fire and dealing great amounts of damage and survive!” Wut?

What we got with this oh so great philosophy is:

- Mesmers in PvE no longer using their class mechanic.
- Mesmers in PvP no longer using their class mechanic.
- Mesmers in WvW, wait, no mesmers in WvW.

Could we replace F1 to F4 maybe for something that works with the professions design philosophy?

yes they could ‘’weakest class in game , reroll if u dont like’’

@Odik.. is one of the scruby word i ve ever heard!!

give my money back.. what i give for this this game.. and more more over than… my precious time i ve already spent.. how much u would give for +3k hours spent.. bahh empty talks..

i am always proudly honered to have blood in my veins one of top dervish.. as he says;

Come, Come again !
Whatever you are…
Whether you are infidel,
idolater or fireworshipper.
Whether you have broken your vows
of repentance a hundred times
This is not the gate of despair,
This is the gate of hope.
Come, come again…
Dervish/Poet/Philosopher Mawlana Jelaleddin RUMI

anet how about making OFFICAL OBJECTIVED or DEATHMATCH maps with which can be observed as we used pvp mode.. maybe as in name of alpha/beta for,

• understanding large scale enviroment..
• understanding role/mission/goal with various style recuirments
• comparing classes Balance Phi..
• or if u satisfied with your budgets thats oke.. however customer satisfaction.. ?

at least check already reported bugs for mesmers and unfairly made unobjectived nerfs maybe which u made for your core mechanic as for tpvp but u say zerging is one of yyour core mechanic nowadays/as which your balance phi sould be effected.. BF? unworking archetypes core mechanics Phantasm/shatter where all other class`s mechanic efficient increase in there however mesmers`s decrease..

cuz of game mechanic..
archetypes of mesmer..

• Shatter,
• Phantasm,
• dunno others excatly.. (mantra :P)

as OP say, Shatter Mechanic rework?

• Anet: what are your limitations of doing adaptations/orientations…
• Ofc not asking this again u ve specced balance to WvW(large scale groups Mesmer)
• Pls constructive guys! (anet[with transparency policy] and comminity)

@Wyrden, pls tell what we do in large scale fights,
do u know why mesmer doesnt have any seat on any guild composition?.. yes except veil.. so pls dont say we are not warrior.. u say every class has pros cons… how about mesmer?
whats really ptos of him…. as the only 1 thing as well anet could say in free ly is UTILITY pros, portal(portal: however doesnt give any role/play style to u it gives only tactical opportunity in terms of your goal, and VEIL, veil is mandatory and it is not weapon slot it is utility slot… and terms of it and natural requirement of wvw or in terms of efficient Blink is your 2. mandatory slot.. u will have 3rd slot left.. what u gonna do do.. ? what do u know about requirement of mesmer in gvg example? un offical gvg as which is done in obsidan sanc. doesnt have way point u can be ressed in sec.. death match with no checkpointed so logically 3rd skill gonnahave survival.. ? fair ? if u die all the time will pass after u dead your efficient will be 0.. and it would hardly balance your efficient before u die in terms of risk&reward factor in long term.. however… your mesmer mean… blink veil and 3rd slot(optional) elite,, optional 3rd skill is rarely (as how u named mesmer as utiliy bot, will not have supoort utilityspec skill but probably survival skill as decoy or other) maybe nullfeed as u re pozitive with your guild composition, or.. ¿

and does it sound fair? with only veil u get a name of UTILITY BOT.. ? FUN? FAIR?

u talked about pros/cons so tell me what is anither pros of mesmer compare to other classes except veil.. ?

yes cons of mesmer is NOT HAVE BETTTER ANY or in FULL OVERALL EFFICEINT ROLE COMPARE TO OTHER CLASSES [ means u dont have thing to do respectly compare to other classses except veil to can be have a seat in guild composition, so veil bot, mean if u already have 1 or maybe 2, for 3rd or others let him to swap other classes](and there is a different about a class who taking down peripheries, tank, supoort or sustain damage , burst/spike and than role just 1 skill VEIL) but remind how anet say about heal mechanic and healers, and u(anet) say about how is boring.. ppl asking for heall..etc…}

yeah i am not asking be let us best/ more – better compare to other classes… as well i would not accept it.. and probably gonna leave play with him aswell..

i want FAIR challenge.. dont wanna memorization says, subjective says..

as anet mentioned.. mesmer is best ranged class after ranger… i really bored of them.. be objective.. WHAT IS THAT MEAN BEST ? describe best? PLS NOTE IT SHOULD BE IN TERMS OF OVERALL EFFICIENT..
your game is here we play however if i would ask WHY, HOW question what u could say? i ve mathematical things/ theorical/practical %possibilaties, focused chaos theory scenerious, objective missions, and effects.. in terms of objectiveness… so let me know where i mistake.. pls.. i will appriciate.. and how about CC.. yess mesmer… igh igh.. mesmer.. yes pleanty dazesss.. yes pleanty crowd controls.. topic end.. change subject.. ahh.. memorized talks.. (my english broken) or undigested talks about mesmer overall, unbelieved talkes.. rushing to change topics..

pls RE DESCRIBE YOUR DESCRIBTIONS as what does all your means about what u said? they all just sound but not have impact.. u dont give your perspective.. u say mesmer is this this where? i would think just u had 1 concept tpvp which your game mechanic designed.. but if u mention your critize/discussions about all modes as balance phi will go for all modes… i can say where this courage come from.. 1) 1 side i can think yess they have something suprisingly waiting.. 2) after 1 or directly.. maybe anet should have more free time to can play gw2 in high end competition in various modes(exactly gvg) where thay talked about or More gems more capital to anet however just sarcasm../if have will the same.. trusting to them is decreasincing since game begins in avarage..
———

Nerelith.7360:

kokiman.2364:

Shockwave.1230:

They can do subclasses at some point too, adding new professions does not have to be mutually exclusive to subclasses. ANet still needs to add new professions to the game at some point as well.

Do you know why we dont have subclasses? Because of the balance. Do you think that the balance of GW2 right now justifies a new layer of complexity? I think the balance team right now has a lot problems balancing the game for all 3 gamemodes.

You would think after 2 years they would have the classes better balanced, why does this game feel like the longest alpha in the world>? Not Just not ready for release, but…Not ready for beta.

Shockwave.1230:

Shockwave.1230:

Being a Guild Wars 1 vet, I’d like them to do a throw back with one of the new professions they bring in at some point. Dervish is the main one on my mind, with ritualist being a close second.

How would both of those profession be unique in GW2? What would be their class mechanics?

Go play Guild Wars. You’ll see that BOTH of those have better mechanics, and are more fun to play than anything currently in GW2. And let’s Not forget The Assassin.

The Assassin is not a Thief.
The Dervish is not a handicapped Elementalist.
The Ritualist is not anything like an Engineer.

These three classes should be in the game. That Anet doesn’t want to givethem to us, is just a sign that they rather keep putting out Living Story. I am pretty certain that even though they claim that the new season has " Permanent Content" there is no new class, or race, or weapon in the thing, maybe new skills? can I Hope?

If Anet does only 1 thing…. I would come back to play Like I used to, and I am sure many of those that have left, if they heard it, they would come flocking back, In droves….

Sub-classes.

What second thing could they do? Bring back Dervishes, and Ritualists and Assassins.

But…. that would be hard. And it seems that the only hard thing Anet considers doing is putting out skins On the gem store.

Mesmer is not Mesmer..

gw1 mesmer more&less http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Effective_mesmer_guide
gw2 Mesmer, example in GvG Veil bot.. (except veil there is no seat for mesmer)

by randomly i saw thsis link.. mostly agree on them about mesmer.. http://www.toptiertactics.com/14669/guild-wars-2-how-arenanet-ruined-the-mesmer/
————————————
however we can say Guild wars `2` is not Guidwars1 (just new game.. who use guildwars tag) [anet would use another name than guildwars it would better i think]

yes excatly sd thiefs > shatter mesmer..

i cant say much for tpvp,
as Fay said phantasm builds make much more better job, try to proc your phantasms retals is the way.. and if u in wvw dire with, chaos V and vengeful images much more easier..

i had really cool fights kittenter mesmer vs sd thiefs that i choosed for to make a nice video, however deleted by mistake from hardisk, but still have some others maybe can be interested..

http://youtu.be/2U2E6mTsL7E from 13:07, have much mistakes, however i made it to see what do wrong.. if i didint delete other video it had great fights when i won sd thief it was cuz of his mistakes or i did great job pressure him and after he is in cd full bursts.. but sd always win if do 5 to 10 duels.. however in tpvp its all different color..

Mesmer Breakdown for WvW – Zerg/GvG

Master of misdirection:
- In Theorically, YES but imo after thief or..
- In Practically/Theorically, No or not master, Because in wvw,

• unsustaining Illusions (where being master of misdirection is coming from)
• Conditions, Confusion? bah.. where has there is a large scale composition and every aoe cleanses can effect full cap it.. foods runes and already composition to take inimal condi effects organized grouping.. and we dont have any respected condi in terms of misdirection..
• Retal.. with low health pool? Health pool = armor x Health and moreoever low efficient tanking ability
• in term of CC, we dont have fear, or other delays as stun, kd skills or chills or poi or weakness

if misdirection means = let/pressure opponent to change/reorganize his moment movements/position or skills managments..
————————————————-
Anet: `CC mentioned, alot of `dazes` Crowd Control`

I am highly disagree that we dont have respected CC potential in wvw.. link
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Ready-Up-15-Balance-Philosophy-6-13-notes/4119870
————————————————-
Anet: Utility: u say veil feed back etc.. very strong..

(why u guys feel so un comfortable while discussing/critizing Mesmer, skiping topics, rushing to end it, undigestion? while not in others..? :S maybe i am wrong )..

Gw1 mesmer? will not write here again above link..
————————————————
Anet : weaknesses: Conditions.. hard deal with them as eng or thief cuz of utility stregth if u ve high offense we can not give high cleanse etc etc

:S if u say mes has pleanty CC however not have lacking cleanse.. ? bah.. mesmer have more cleanse potential than cc potential.. but challenge to make your build.. and having organized group, food, runes, who care cleanse as u highlight it..
———————————————————
Anet: Aoe, we talked about it internally, we definetly recognize it especially in wvw in pve situations, they are doing great job dealing with single target, shut it down, doing damage, keeping it confused, moving around, stealth when need to, evading, distort.. but when it comes to fight with larger the things become weaker..

pff just bored…
—————————————————-
Mesmer Future is the same = VEIL BOT in wvw = There is no seat in any competitive group except being veil/portal user

Azo.5860:

Full notes:
Mesmer: Misdirection, crowd control, utility. Brought in for utility all the way from GW1.

gw2 Mesmer and overall game mechanic is totally different from gw1 mesmer/gamemechanic

however Jul/25 2012 still doesnt change much..
http://www.toptiertactics.com/14669/guild-wars-2-how-arenanet-ruined-the-mesmer/

copy/paste
Meanwhile, the Mesmer lost every single defining aspect of the profession. Here’s a list of stuff the Mesmer did in Guild Wars but conveniently forgot how to do in the sequel:

1. Precisely interrupting enemy actions
2. Punishing enemies for attacking
3. Punishing enemies for casting spells
4. Punishing enemies for doing nothing
5. Slowing enemies to a crawl
6. Stealing/draining resources from enemies
7. Disabling enemy skills
8. Casting spells and signets at increased speed
9. Slowing or delaying enemy spell casting
10. Dealing huge amounts of damage over time (DOT)
11. Gaining temporary buffs that later became debuffs
12. Wielding illusory weapons to deal enhanced damage
13. Copying enemy abilities, including elite abilities
14. Performing Riverdance
    Sure, the Mesmer in Guild Wars 2 can inflict debuffs (as conditions) and punish players for acting (as a generic, boring “Confusion” condition), but there’s no trickery. No guile. No Lyssa loving. The Mesmer’s entire box of tricks has been scrapped for an Illusion mechanic that is shallow, repetitive, and ineffective.

And unlike the built-in profession abilities of the Engineer, Elementalist, or even the Thief, the Mesmer’s Illusions don’t give her lots of different options. They really give her just one:

Bore the player to tears.
———————————————————————————-
i decribe them as.. ``when u tried to make eyebrown, u removed the eye`` :P (from turkish translate)

example: more&less of gw1 mesmer http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Effective_mesmer_guide

example: GvG scene from semi-final match http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFWvdyCk1Uo
———————————————————————————-

some of the reasons why they dont work, in wvw, zerg or gvg

1. interupt in will, willingly,
   example u see necro is healing, or ele starting to meteor shower etc..
   - it requires/should have,
   o clear visual effects.. (i mean there is a big challenge for understanding foe`s actions with not havin or not clear;
   o tooltips [example there is no which skill is using foe by the healthbar/name tag],
   o audio effects

challenge interupt with mesmer in wvw, lets say 2 style,

o Frontliner,
- i mean u run compact with your train, not skirmising in lines by melee train.. as which is required as keeps/walls fights in otherwords fights in small, limited areas..
how u can?

• staff 5? = random aoe interupt.. how can be efficient in spec of efficient with CC
  would u give domination GM trait on it?
• gs 5? = random `close burst(mean 600range 5cap) interupt.. most of this skill use in kind of scenerios for push [as on grouping]
• single targeted skills = ofc no
  with all above where can not have decent interupts, maybe focus pll can have slightly more
  however for decent int skill should have no/or minimum as 0.15sec casting time..
• focus 4 = random interupt.. main use of it is for pull,

so

o Periphery,
- i mean u are skirmisihing, without or with any focus team[2 to 5 players whose mission are spike/burst targets in sync]
however challenge of interupt precisely..
example new gm trait? power spike.. = risk/reward = not fair

and slot/skill restrictions.. in terms of nature requires of WvW as mesmers,
imbued diversion= ? with unbroken illusion mechanic?
Chaotic interupt= in this meta? first remove lemon grass maybe what was the logic with -%40 duration on conditions where has in large scaled grouping environment that with almost %100 chance mean no challenge to remove conditions with all aoe cleanses as ele and others..
confonding suggestions CS = maybe if not CS nerfed.. how many can #5staff can proc daze? 2 to 3? ussually and means 1 sec daze can turn in to stun however staff has not much more aoe support/tag than #5 and restriction to use gm dom trait..
ok u say mesmer is something as celestial item except having veil and portal.. but dont say it pls mesmer has CC slightly less than best, slightly different..

remind= Hammer STUn, Static, wall, warding and much more..

maybe problem is,
Anet`s description/meaning of ``SLIGHTLY``

1. Punishing enemies for attack

leave all them maybe better just Critize/judge official design..

Dulfy`s Full notes: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/282wjy/balance_philosophy_developer_livestream_notes/

Mesmer: http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/4456907 from 44.20

Mesmer: Misdirection, crowd control, utility. Brought in for utility all the way from GW1.

• Weakness: Conditions are hard to deal with. Lack of AoE – good single target damage but weak at AoE situation. (A bit weaker than where we want to be. We don’t want to make it too strong as we want you to bring Eles for ranged AoE damage). Mobility – not a ton of mobility due to lack of swiftness but they do have a lot of teleports such as portals. Mesmer can get there and back with portals but can’t go too far forward due to lack of swiftness. Low defense against high burst damage – maybe some small tweaks.
• Official design: Access to key utility skills. Gain defense through stealth, evasion, misdirection. Strong 1v1 ranged damage dealer but weaker in sustained AoE damage. Weakness – conditional removal, sustainability if illusions are countered, AoE damage make it hard to sustain illusions.

most high end players need/want in wvw, competitive area which should be FAIR..

briefly something as Tpvp with larger scale grouping (not only 5 players)
with wvw customizations,

• OFFICAL ranks,
• can not be interupted places to fight..
  etc etc..
  u already know what all means..

http://youtu.be/2U2E6mTsL7E?t=1m5s war riffle :P

Mesmer, In WvW[Zerg](Sync ed- ORGANIZED)

Meta (in mean of Most efficient tactics available, in quality of state of mesmer atm),
Strenghts,

• Having room for every organized groups..

Weaknesses,

• There is no room except veil botting. (1 or 2)

Kryptonite, (dunno what is it exactly mean. if it is same mean as antidote)

• Mesmer`s archetypes doesnt work, she should be adaptade to large scale fights (require independant balance from meta balance philosophy)

Reasons:
- S: Having unique skills Veil/portal
- W: There is no better effcient role compare to other classes..[WvW-Zerg] and there is no cap to choosing any other classes than mesmer in your organized group.. Mesmer overall efficient&effectiveness decrease in larger scale fights not like as other classes efficient change to larger scale groups ..

Should be, in first think (subjective) (objective should be working optimizable/customizable builds for differ/various roles/styles)

Strengths,

• at least (if guess mesmer archetypes(shatters, phantasm, etc etc) works as required level/quality as in pvp for wvw zerg enviroment) and example of pure shatter spec
  - Burst Damage
  - Damage Negation from damage Prevention [Survival for anti-burst]
  - Positioning

Weaknesses,

• Low Survival from sustain (dps/focused/dot) damages
• High unconnection time to damage deal, mesmer bursts required sync/sinergy from others

Josh Davis.6015:

In your opinion, what should the strengths and weaknesses of each profession be? What’s your profession’s kryptonite?

kryptonite:
if part 1 https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Ready-Up-Balance-Philosophy-6-13-Noon-PDT/4115421 already done.. go Part 2: Understanding Large scale fights/environments inputs/out puts
then would be better to go Part 3: As your Question about Classes S-W should be..

offical quote from anet staff: Frankly, we don’t like sitting around spamming “looking for healer” to global chat. That feels an awful lot like preparing to have fun instead of having fun…

• Mesmer meta in Large scale fights.. COmmander : Ready up Veil.. 1 2 3 Veil Veil Veil…
  then dont be rally bot and try to do best efficient.. in 30 teammed party: Mesmer #3 Hey guys i back.. Commander: Swap to bla bla.. (staff ele, shout war, dps war or whatever)

Josh Davis.6015:

Great responses, all. Really impressed with the turnout. Posts like the ones from Holland, SuinegTsol, and pierwola (to name a few) are exactly the type of high-level role discussion we are looking for.

As a note, I want to be very clear that we’re looking for comments from all game modes, PvE, PvP, and WvW included. Don’t be shy.

I’ll be going through the thread quite a bit today, distilling your thoughts into something a bit more digestible that we can talk about on stream.

Thanks!

is there any trick that u could see my post before i submit it.. as when i preview it,, can u see it as well.. cuz i started it by time u posted.. :S kitten gonna take a coffee.. :P :S

and What is kryptonite mean excatly ? is it something as antidote mean.. ?

Great Topic..

In your opinion, what should the strengths and weaknesses of each profession be? What’s your profession’s kryptonite?*

It remind me the topic which i created long time ago some short after major patch.. however it removed to junk.. [copy/paste] The thread “Gw2 Philosophy?” has been removed from the forums as it is not an actual discussion. Please post a discussion thread and just just a question.

so it sounds good opportunity to continue from boss`s topic..

Josh Davis.6015:

In your opinion, what should the strengths and weaknesses of each profession be?

rather than Josh question maybe it would better if we started from Topic. [Balance Philosophy][Part 1]

from my view, as in topic ``Balance Philosophy`` it shall be,

• in Objective Risk/Reward factor in other words Challenge Rate/Efficient[effectiveness]
  and it should be in Transparent policy.

so, maybe just i am or there is a bug there..
i dont understand ppl in which Mode/Enviroment are they talking about..
OR,
i could already missed it that GW2 Modes already Described.. However from my side/experiance gw2 has,
Modes: in major pve pvp wvw and in minor/secondarly dungeon open map, solo spvp, t pvp, duel pvp, wvw solo roam, wvw solo duel, small scale, large scale, organized large scale Deathmatch[unoffical GvG], organized/unorganized[pug] large scaled groups roam[guild raids example] and etc etc..
- and the most difference between them are competition..
if i describe Competition.. it means to me,, where has Offical Ranks, maps, organizations, e-sports.. etc..
where the most objective Fair balances required..
SO,

• Balance Requires should be independence.. in other words Balances in Enviroments/Modes, in terms of Requires from where…
  otherwise,
  when u try to make eyebrown, u remove eye.. or i can say if u split above mustage, if below beard (eng is not my mother language/translated :S )

• 1) if not gw2 has any focus in semi offical ¿ – unoffical competitive areas as gvg or in casual/random generated(chaotic[comes from chaos theory] as large scale grouping and others except Tpvp, as meta says GW2`s game mechanic is for 5players vs 5players in structured mode[cap point or how u say mode]
  Please not be shy and say it in transparent policy.. that we(if anyone thinks as me the same) can be clear in Offically.. [not be me/us being pollyanna/happy dreamer/ obsession cuz of lacking transparency(could already missed if said)]

in conculision, if u say Anet(Gw2) vision is support just 5v5 players structed mode mechanic and e-sporting it.. [i can already missed any quote already, however u can reapat it Offically your(gw2) mission, vision and goal again[ ll appriciate]..)

so,

• pls just do Balances orientation FOR 5v5 structured mode.. (for details go sub forums for each classes where u should open it for)

or,

• 2) or is there any effort to make balances include for all modes in gw2, or from my view.. at least the environments as sync ed/organized large scale groups or more for GvG…

say it in OFFICALLY pls.. in transparency policy..

there are pleanty competitive players still in this game [Where most of them already retired/quit/abondoned from gw2] that we/they can go part 2 as your

In your opinion, what should the strengths and weaknesses of each profession be? What’s your profession’s kryptonite?*

question..

otherwise it makes me think in differ way which i dont like to see from kind of glassess..
as.. dont like to give name to anet as pitifullness, capitalist(just look for his pockets[profit margin/state]), unethicallness, ignoring unsatisfy anet customers/players..

(its all self subjective opinions)/imo [sorry for broken english and missing/skips nothing personal)

IN CONCULISON,

• First of all, Need OFFICAL answer from anet,
  - If your Balance Philosophy includes except 5v5 structured gaming mechanic and pve mode (as unoffical gvg, large scale fighting) so HOW?[Clearly pls][not politic/objective pls]?
• then it can make sense your question SWOT about classes.. in modes except pve(dunno of it excatly) and sPvP(5v5 Structured PvP mode)

i can ask what is your goal with gw2? what kind of player are u competitive/challenging or casual player?
if u are casual player.. i would not like to give u wrong things..

if u are looking for competition,,
- gw2 has just 1 offical high end competitive mode.. it is TPvP Tournament Structured Player vs Player.. with which game design for 5 players gaming..

your goal?
game has some various game style in offical..
- PvEnviroment mode.. (i cant say much for here.. i think is the place where u get your character lvl max 80.. and easier to get golds probably
- PvP spvp[solo/pug structured pvp], tpvp[tournament/organized structured pvp, casual random unranked pvp)
- WvW… there is 1 unoffical competitive mode (GvG guild vs guild [Guilds Organized Deathmatchs]) other style/mode in wvw Organized Duels, Solo Roam, Organized Large Scaled Zerging +15, 20 [Guild raids], Unorganized Large Scaled Zerging PuG zerging, Smale scaled group roaming (up to mostly 10)

sorry need to end it quickly

in competition,
in general mesmer efficient is become decrease in larger groups compositons,,

in casual,
play however u like to play..

if u dont know how to just do it..

(i personaly offer u not be mesmer if it ll be your first class and if u dont have speacial interest of him) in terms of being efficint to your group, farming and all others..

Play to win, don’t be a Scrub..

i wish it can be in large scaled matches..
cuz of there is no support from anet to large scale fights as, there is no adaptation to game mechanic for large scale fights and there is no have Offical mode(offical ranks, offical maps) for it.. no competition.. so i made my new char names with bla bla,, scrub, holysh 1t, holycrab, holycrap.. at least it puts a smile on face

• phantasms ? :S in the place where u can have random generated high DPS where there is from 0 chance to 1 hit can atack phantasm [is there any of other classes have kind of mechanic as mesmer that his important skill can be obstructed as in example of using it in large scale fights] pls dont tell phantasm.. in zergs.. or yeah wanna skirmish out of your compact group as periphery hunting as in GvG.. yeah sure.. dont forget to get your veil.. yes have veil ofc use best efficint to ypur group.. not have veil? what u doing here wanna perip hunting ? why not thief? wanna melee pressure bahh… already told no room for mesmer if not have veil.. )ofc it is true, your not better in any role/spec from other classessssss.. take your veil thats it..

Let competitive players to use Mesmer who use as a core class war guard necro or ele..
and ask their opinions about mesmer in competitive way and in overall spec efficient…

to be continued…

bahh maybe just empty talks.. is there any news about OFFICAL competitive gaming with Large Scale matches form any Devs? as GvG… ? yeah yeah mesmer=veil sorry,, gw2=pvp in comptetitive,,

ohh BF nerfed, Reason ? and nerf to ALL MODES in gw2,, in pvp was ppl complaining about BF? or is it lacking capable of doing BF with Inv and give it unrespond to Decap
effect?

SHould we be creative on BF in wvw(in organized large scale fighting)? or it will be empty breath..

ohh sorry nerf mesmer she is OP in WvW let them supportive.. where there is no cap to compisition your large scale group.. omg.. would like know what their in mind..? (esporting tpvp.. influence.. gems tp.. money.. shining[items] wars 1… or buy more gems guys to let anet more efficient to can capable of make offical competitive areas with guild orientations (not just for 5 players structed 1 type comptetive game, maybe GvG as which can be used guild composition to accomplish to being officaly best..)

sorry for messy post.. but if i was not messy i would not touch here probably,,, :P

@ Carighan, me or other competitive gvg or large scale players.. as well wanna Challenging game which means fun, no hack&slash game as diablo..
if i understand correct u mean confusion and retal are similar things..
the biggest differences between them are,

• if u would trigger confusion with BF it will be 1 tick however retal 8 ticks x if cleaved 3 times
• confusion is more capable for track than retal
• however confusion can stack, retal not but conditions efficient is much more lower than power efficient.. (aka large scale enivorement/group composition) more easy to counter
• retal have much more easier access than confusion..
• retal effect area is much more wider than confusion..
  they were some what i remembered in first, the reason i gave, wrote them.. retal is not easier counter measure as u think.. in large scale fights… however periphery huntering role spec have differ glasses from it with no spec ing to multi targets.

yeap we should be creative, however it requires objective descriptions/details to minor/major things in wider perspectives.. ofc i can not make wall of texts for all details&and theories.. and probably u didint understand why i add that damage.. and dont forget here is an open area everybody read here..

@ ozzy and general
in my opinion (imo) what u say sounds just can fit to pvp or wvw-roaming/small scale environments/modes,
but in large scale fights(zergs) or in gvg things become different.. why, in organized large scaled groups or in gvg oriented groups,
facetanks = melee train.. melee train = compact classes who are mostly efficient to can take massive damage on them(tanking) and and try to give opportunity to better efficients to other peripheries as mostly necros, eles or make better group position mobility, ofc there can be have bombers (bursters) or DPSers(as gs war) in melee train still they should have capable of taking high damage on themself..
[is the very dominant thing, IF U DIE your efficient become ZERO (0)..]
u can not kill who facetanks u.. because who are in melee train means kitten already oriented to absorb bursts/spikes, or massive dps on them while not losing mobility.. u can just support your group to let enemy`s train to die.. and if some foe is evading u.. probably,

• if u re already in melee train he is Not evading YOU he is evading all of you [dont take it personal] or evade for try to do something tham survival spec.. (guess he is mesmer),,
  - he is evading(as dodge or blink) to not captured by enemy`s trains to be bursted, or become inv to can trigger his PU while getting out of combat or far from melee train..
  - if he is Blurr Frenzying,
  1)example, he is using it defansively [ there is another cons of Bf, which is mostly skipping, while channeling BF with 2.30sec it can let u leave in more concentrated bombs, which will require from u to use blink, or dodge, however dodge can still risky, it is risky because in 0.30 mili sec u can get CC as stun or knockdown in concencrated bomb(burst) which will/can cause you to die.. however another thing is as we used to see pleanty GS guardians.. they can easily interupt your Blurred Frenzy Channel with their Binding Surge GS#5 pull skill *verification Require[maybe there can already have an unseen-buff, havent tested it since long time] .. which can let u die.. and another biggest cons of BF is giving u challenge/disadvantage to make u position comfortable, lacking mobility, with your group compostion.. and ofc Retal and other triggers on per hit things.. which can give challenge to your timings as time wrap order or veil..
  2) for offensively.. burst with your sync group to point, means being in to concentrated heavy damage to focused point.. can highly fail(means have high RIsk) cuz of retal and on hit effects.. where as other classes have not the same risk in returns of reward.. and.. (to be contunied)

Wyrden.4713:

the main problem was the reta dmg not the dmg of our skills

anyway, i am taking all my comments about the fact that bf should be affected by reta back

after this thread was created i zerged a bit just to see how stuff r goin

and yep, blurred frenzying is basically a selfdestruction button in zergs

we are not just talking/critizing about only the main problem of BF? we all in that one of biggest/most cons of BF is retal.. and from my side in wider perspective why we say retal issue for BF is mainly about Mesmer mechanic Risk&reward and overall competition/efficient in large scale fights… requesting adaptation BF to large scale fights is just giving some dash of salt/paper (sorry if i hardly understanded eng is not my mother language)

Anton.1769:

blurred frenzying hits only 3 foes ( tultip says) so it’s not suicide like engies grenades)

yes we are not racing pee.. just we are in mesmer forums.. however maybe it requires knowladge about some mechanic about it that
blurred frenzy can hit: 8(hits) x 3(cleave attack) = 24 times can effected from Retal, Chaos armor, any of auras, and others.. and yes if u have already Ilusionary Persona trait .. than your shatters can multiplier retal and others effects u more (and shatter hits 5 person)

example: Blurred Frenzy + F1 (3 clones+Ilusionary Persona) + F3 Ilusionary Persona + F2 3 (2 clones[from Mirror Images]+ IP) Total = this one full burst style combo can trigger retal and other effects 64 times = guess that all players have 2000 power each retal can give 232 each so = almost 15k damage + other effects :P

hihey.1075:

Sorry for necro-ing this thread, but I stumbled upon the video I was talking about in one of my posts in this thread about skills hugely affected by Retaliation in zergs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB6zdwc7iWY

Now compare this to BF plz

yeah Damage differences between them are

Ice Storm has %320 more damage per hit than Blurred Frenzy`s per hit….
Ice storm is 0.85 skill co efficient however BF is 0.264 skill co efficient…… (made icestorm with staff)

means if my BF hit 1000 damage per Ice storm hit 3200 damage per………………

have any mistake?

Thiefs pistol whip as well have more damage %19,19 than BF

moreever than why, it can be added where question.. as player can like to know that in which mode that skill is voted..

like
Tpvp:
1)portal: mobility, positioning,
2)phase: mobility, positioning,
3)blink: mobility, positioning,

WvW Organized Zerging,
1)veil: unique skill, is the best efficient/compare to other classes
2)blink: timing for veil/positioning/mobility
3)prestige: getting out of target while periphery hunting/hunted, being out of melee train, survival/positioning/burst

we are in 06/05/2014 atm.. how many months/year already passed from gw2 beta.. so if there are uncorrect tooltips as this.. i should think, reason of them are,

• unresponsibility of anet, slacking..
• nontransperant policy, try to make opportunutiy them self to can make comfortable unseen buffs/nerfs
• being scrub/noob, uncapable of doing correcting tooltips..

requesting correction of tooltips is sound utterly ….. to me. anet shall do it.. not anyone/player of this game should.. or me.. noone in anet work without wage/for fun(imo, if they are.. nonethless i am customer and u should satisfy me/us)… dunno whats anet goal/mission about it, but i dont feel it respected.. from my view.. after more than 1 year u finnaly add skill co efficients to wiki, or detailed tool tips in game.. however the topic is not that.. we want exact/clear/as it should be numbered detailed tooltips..

havent tested any of the co efficients maybe for 2 monts.. but than earlier that phantasms have wrong skill co efficient, or dps is missing for aa, scepter #1 had unseen nerf after patch,and more others/and bugs

for anet,

• make objective/exact numbered/updated/filled up wiki and tooltips
• dont be shy :P

would like to see WvW(organized large scaled) video..