I don’t know how meaningful Terrormancer is in PvE, but it has always been (and probably always will be) really strong in WvW/PvP.
I like the idea of a torch that doesn’t actually apply burning, but is an AoE weapon.
Greatswords for AoE in-your-face sustain, and Hammer for close range control.
I’d really like to see pistols though, a few people have thrown out the ideas of off-hand weapons being able to summon minions, I’d love to see off-hand Pistol “shoot” Jagged Horrors (spawn them at the target), up to a small limit of 3 or so.
That’s why you get the 30 SR trait to have 50% crit chance. The build is more about spamming DS 1 than anything.
In terms of stats…. I think most people are going for Ascended gear for the looks, and the prestige, rather than trying to keep on top stats-wise.
I agree, I’m just saying that from a stats perspective it is still “worth it” in a way. Its just another grind in the game for people to pour money and time into when they have done everything else. But regardless of reasons, its the stats that have (till they added actual looks) that generally made people rationalize spending all that time getting it.
Increasing your bleeding damage by 1 tick will still increase your effective DPS by around 15, and with how long fights take that amounts up over time.
But really, imo Ascended gear is more for Fractals. If you don’t do Fractals then its hardly necessary.
OHHHHH, yeah I forgot about that…
There is video on youtube, but I don’t have any links, it was posted on the forums a while back.
Yes, but they have a distinct look while in Death Shroud, which is unique to Necros. Bifrost for example adds in the rainbowy cloud into the death shroud.
Or maybe I should rephrase that. Why not that many male Norn Nero’s
Im just curious why there arent that many? I started leveling one and right now he is looking pretty cool, but I started noticing every time I came across another Necromancer it was a different race. Even on the forums where people post pictures of their Necro’s I only saw a couple.
Does the gear look ridiculous at higher levels on them? Or is it they get targeted more because of their size?
Have you checked out how hot they made they human-like females? I get why a lot of people make male characters, but I figure if I’m going to be looking at the same character for hundreds of hours, it better be one that I like looking at. I prefer looking at females, so that’s what I made my character as. Plus, Norn males just look a bit overgrown for light armor, it just doesn’t fit them well.
Its just the MF
The direct damage buffs didn’t bring Necro over the top, it was the addition of Dhuumfire and Torment, which gave Necros two new tools that are not only very strong offensively, but provide cover conditions to hide bleeds even better. Along with that, it came in a patch that was, overall, a large buff to our Terror damage/duration as well with Spectral Wall and Doom increases.
Look up Nemesis’ hybrid necro guide. I believe hybrid has the highest raw DPS, and more reliable damage so long as no one is pushing off your condis.
I realize this is the necro forums, but this habit of necroing month old threads… just stop please. Make a new topic if you want.
Your example is great to show that conditions can still be countered, however unfortunately for certain builds that just would never have happened, and I think that is where ANet wants to go.
Some classes, or more specifically builds, just can’t deal with condi classes. A mesmer, for example, wouldn’t have made it more than a few steps. What we will see is probably incremental buffs to condition cleansing so every class at least has possible tools to use.
I feel like they might address condition application on other classes, as most other classes can re-apply the meaningful conditions often, but don’t have the sheer number that we do, and maybe a bit of removal buffing to help as well. I don’t see how they can actually nerf our application without bringing much worse nerfs to the class in general (which is far from OP, but has one really strong build).
From what I have heard from the devs, and this is just their opinion I’m not debating how accurate it is, they feel that Necros mainly, but condition classes in general outpace the cleansing of many classes by too much. For example, even for a Terrormancer, bleeding does the majority of the damage. However with how we work, we apply bleed first (or close), then go on in a general rotation to also apply cripple, weakness, and chill (in a strictly bleed burst), and poison, torment, immobilize, and fear in bigger burst chains. Along with the common burning trait, this isn’t a problem of damage itself, so much as many cleanses only remove 1-3 conditions. Meaning that even in our bare bones bleed applications, you will often end up not removing the very condition stack that is going to kill you (bleeding) and instead get rid of the extraneous stuff we put on.
This is of course, compounded by our generally high ability to “force” you to eat bleeds with fears as well, which overall leads people to feeling helpless in some situations. Again, I realize we can argue how accurate that is, but this is where I think ANet is coming from; a lot of classes cannot effectively combat the large amount of condition application that is being thrown at them, and most end up with the most important condition to get rid of (bleeding usually, confusion for some builds) being left on as it was applied first.
So I think we will be seeing some overall nerfs to condition spam classes, but I am interested to know how they will handle the Necro case because of how reliant we are on conditions, and quite honestly how useless we are as a class without all those condis going out.
Having played necro for a very long time I think half the cries of OP-ness are strictly from foes who don’t understand the life force bar and become frustrated when they realize that the necro they thought they had killed still has some health after death shroud.
In my opinion necro’s epidemic is slightly op and should probably only hit 3 nearby foes. Huge aoe damage from a class with such innate survivability is a little OP.
p.s.
To be a good necro you should read the pinned post about necro bugs.
The cries of OP are because compared to any other Condi class in the game, Necros not only put out similar condition damage pressure (with higher burst due to burning/terror), but also a ton of cover conditions that make it very hard for anyone without a full cleanse to handle. Bleeds are almost always the first condition applied, which means they are the last out. On top of that in a single bleed rotation we’ll also apply weakness, cripple, chill, burning, and terror (more?), which means a lot of classes just cannot handle it, and even after using their cleanses they are still stuck with 15 or so long duration bleeds that they still can’t cleanse.
Necros are one of the major reasons that Mesmers just aren’t played right now. If a necro catches them with a condi burst they just can’t cleanse it.
Outdated list is outdated.
For meta, yes, for overall builds and their strengths (so including the ones not really used in pvp because they “are not viable”), its correct.
The meta is massively important, ignoring the meta is ignoring one of the biggest things that determines comparative build viability. The reason Mesmers are near useless right now and never brought is because they cannot effectively run enough condition cleansing to deal with the super-condi meta, especially not Necros.
On the other hand, the main reason warriors have become such an integral part of the meta is because they have the tools to hard counter Necros.
Every build comes down to relative viability. You have no standard with which to measure viability except compared to other builds, and compared to the currently used builds, that list is completely inaccurate.
I turned everything so far into berzerkers. The upgrades had already been assassin, so I didn’t feel like I needed that much extra Crit chance.
I think it would be nice to have the option of a bit more info layed over the top of things. I’m not asking for WoW where there are numbers scrolling all over the screen and it looks ugly compared to our design, but things like a more detailed combat log or allowing third party applications to track those things would be amazing for people trying to test.
I feel like there is a bit too much “its around this much HP”, “I deal around this much DPS”, etc when it comes to testing, when we should be able to finish a fight, open up the combat log, and have a decent idea of what went on. I realize though that that might be a lot of work to actually get done, and if that is the reason I can handle it.
We like to keep things down to earth and casual. What’s more casual than getting through 30 minutes of a podcast and one of the host’s mics hasn’t worked for the entire time?
If they cleansed conditions, or “ate” them after like 5-10 seconds of them being on then I could see it being good, so long as it wasn’t some ridiculous amount of healing (just enough to heal a little bit of the damage done, but not all).
It happens, we’re all familiar with technical issues on the podcast :P
I have no desire to argue with why the keep it, but it is still a fact that a lot of skills had no AoE limit at launch, those were added in later for BALANCE reasons. I cite Epidemic because it is the one I know of, where at launch it didn’t require LoS, was a guaranteed successful cast after start unless you were interrupted, and had no AoE limit. It was insanely OP, and they changed it. But it remains that AoE limits have not always been there.
“On a couch”… the name seems familiar to me.
A simple question, John: why can’t Anet hire one or two people to literally spend all day going between this forum and the class forums replyingto feedback? Would it really be that bad to have a dedicated forum guy/gal?
I’d have a feeling that not many people would honestly want that job for long unless they had really thick skin and were quite succinct with what they said, and then left the conversation (instead of trying to debate). There is a ton of abusive language that flies around the forums directed towards ANet, and while some of it is understandable, I’d hate to sign up to hang the “kick me” sign on my back and then calmly walk through a crowd of people with steel toed boots.
AoE limit is not about mechanical computations, it is flat a balance problem (although limitations might have been a consideration). Epidemic used to have no AoE limit, and it was complete BS to be able to turn one bleed of 140 DPS into 30 bleeds for 4200 DPS every 15 seconds.
I think zerker would still end up better because we have much better crit chance buffing than power buffing.
Moa is a badly designed skill, is toxic, and should be removed and replaced with an actually decent elite for Mesmers. It isn’t OP in any way, but it is way too strong when it lands, and way too weak when it doesn’t; compared to nearly every other Elite which can’t be so easily voided, yet still retain counterplay when it goes off.
I’d only use it if I needed higher Crit chance, otherwise I feel like berzerker is better.
I’m assuming he means that Pets will be hit by AoE regardless if they don’t count towards the limit, which would make AoE spam even stronger against builds it is already great against.
And yes I can one-shot treb on Khylo (as well as the walls on Foefire) but that hardly makes up for the treb one-shotting my entire build when its up.
Our current Downed 3 is already unique and necroy… its a well.
I’d love for a condition based pistol set to “fire” jagged horrors. I think it would work best without it being crit based (due to current minion setup), but its still a fun idea regardless.
I was talking about the death of the minions causing pretty high damage to the warrior after he used 100b. Each minion dying is about 1.2k-1.5k damage, and with 5 minions that is 6k+ damage. Not saying its comparable it shouldn’t be, because that is a single trait and the death of the minions causing comparable damage to an ability that he had to spend a lot to get up to that damage level. Unless I’m a bad necro (I am, but not with minions at least), my minions have already served there purpose.
Anyway, it was more about the fun little revenge of someone killing the minions only to eat crap because of it.
My question is, should pets count toward the AoE limit? Maybe all AoE should hit pets regardless, and only players should count toward the 5 target limit. As it stands, a single Ranger, Necro or Mesmer can bring (or generate) enough pets by themselves to overwhelm the AoE limit.
If they do then they need to have AoE resistance on summons. I main MM necros in PvP, and the only reason I can justify even showing up to team fights is the bit of tankiness that 6+ bodies being in the fight does with the current AoE spam, along with the strong control and decent downed pressure I get. As is minions are already too weak to AoE, and thats with them soaking up the AoE limits and not all getting affected.
Eliminate the AoE limit soaking that the minions give, and suddenly I have minions dying even faster to AoE (hard to believe, I know), and even with minions up I’m a bunker with subpar sustainability, tankiness, and control, with a bit more DPS… until the minions die, then I’m more like a Moa’d Guardian.
Oh my GOD people are actually complaining about this?
Essentially this is a case of making a small restriction to “niche” scenarios with high power in order to keep up a high effect overall. If they had to consider it with putrid mark I would imagine it could only be maybe 500 damage, instead of more like 1.2k. So they removed the high power case so that the power could be kept high all around, instead of having all the “power budget” spent on just one case (putrid mark).
No idea if that was explained well. But anyway, I think its better this way, it makes Death Nova feel really meaningful, and its hilarious when someone AoE cleaves down all your minions and eats 6k damage.
He’s actually really good in the right builds (insert QQ about no UI here), but I’d like it for them too.
Can we get the Predator noise too?
It’d be a 2.5-3k DPS straight buff to Putrid Explosion, which would make the skill overall deal 6.5-8k damage AoE on a 20s CD while applying poison, weakness, and poison fields, with no kind of damage gear necessary. That’s just too much damage for a tanky build to get access to (people were complaing about BM rangers doing that not too long ago), so while the direct damage is super nice for on-death, it had to have that caveat added to allow it to be added.
As for the other stuff, I imagine it was simply ease of coding (for Blood Fiend/Flesh Wurm’s actives).
Its never been a bug, its intended.
Not sure if they are still taking 30 spite anymore, but you’re looking for a terrormancer build with at least 0/20/0/0/20. Grab terror, the on entry DS trait in curses, and depends on your tastes for SR (and if you take 30 Spite), but terrormancers are the QQed about build we have.
Mesmer=Guardian>Ele=Thief>Ranger>Engie>Warrior=Necro
(order of equal being who is still taken first into consideration, but with same amount of thought put into it).
Not in sPvP. That list might have been correct about half a year ago, but its not even remotely accurate now.
Actually each individual summon is in vastly different positions. Some are really strong (Spirits) some are way weaker in comparison. Minions are by far the most unique of them all though.
We do, frankly. Every Necro build has a few problems right now, the biggest MM problem is AoE damage.
On their own, no. But via combo fields and specific buffs they get access to conditions, which all still apply your condition damage. For example death nova procs a poison field, and bone fiend fires through it. Bone fiend has just gotten access to poison, and while he is the one applying the poison, it is your condition damage that determines the damage.
It isn’t an insult. But you want to destroy an entire line of builds because you can’t use Death Shroud properly.
They’re wrong. MM builds do need a bit of help, but they are pretty good right now, flat buffs to anything but a bit of AoE resistance would be over the top.
Dagger does fine DPS on its own. We have plenty of AoE already, if they want to add a cleave weapon they can, but none of our current ones need more AoE added in.
I’d be happy if they did a similar healing skill, but GW1 was a vastly different game when it came to minions. My main gripe with the stuff I listed was that this is all flat buffs to minions, which are not in a bad place at all right now. They still need a bit of work, and none of these are bad ideas in theory, but you can’t start giving pretty big buffs to things that are already strong.
These are all fine ideas for new minions though; cleave, self-siphoning, etc.