An interesting idea, but it makes healing builds way too strong for MMs. For example you can heal minions for 1.6k with staff 2 over 6 seconds, and 6.3k over 10 seconds in a Cleric MM build. You also heal 25 (38) per hit with Vampiric, 79 (114) per minion hit with Vampiric Master, the two above heals, 6.4k with WoB, 3.3k with Dagger 2 all to yourself.
Now, here is the problem. Well of Blood heals 12-13k total to you, which means about 6-6.5k to your minions in addition to the 6.3k they get from the Well itself. Staff 2 now heals minions for 2.4k over 6 seconds, or 400 per second. And that is all on top of the other healing. Basically, the problem is how any AoE healing is going to double dip, so minions are going to get 150% healing from any AoE healing; guardian, ele, our own, etc.
Just make HP bars for all of them, considering there are 3 minions that really have use of it; something already implemented in GW1.
Making Blood Fiend instant reduces any sense of skillful play. Just give me a better way to monitor HP.
Shadow Fiend agreed.
He just makes a video about doing high damage on a Necro, people freak out and act like he’s trying to prove we’re out damaging warriors now. Calm down.
Backlash abilities aren’t the problem, the problem is the mechanic itself is currently boring. It seems basically tacked on for theme.
So you are basically relying almost entirely on your gear to carry you through defensively, and die a bunch of times.
Really? I am by no means a great player, but I made it very easily through the game without ever buying armor until I was 80, and then I spent the next 6 months or so doing all my dungeon runs with rare MF armor, without issue. It is hard the first time you run something difficult, but its really not that hard to do dungeons as any profession in much less than top tier.
it’s nice to see you understood the point I was making for once and yet you said in such a condescending way it seems like you thought you were teaching me something.
I had to just on principle.
Full Life force is a bit strong, but I agree we should have at least 10%, or a better way to instantly get that 10 (without glitching Flesh Golem).
At what point, or when, did you realize that you loved the Necromancer?
When my cousin was playing the original GW1 campaign. In his team was a Necromancer with a Bone Fiend out, I instantly thought that amazing and was the sole reason I bought the original GW and rolled a Necro; which brought me here.
It doesn’t need to be a chain, just give it some slight buffs.
In case someone doesn’t show up, which has happened a lot on other teams.
There might be some on the 11th, but most of it will be on the end of the month, most likely. End of the month is when they do the big patch.
@Walk, no. That was a big reason that DS bunkers existed.
Just make Grasp work every time it hits, and make it more reliable to land; give the opponent the obligation to force it to miss, not put it on me to magically land a weird pull.
Alright guys, I have no idea if you have been doing the runs or not, but I apologize for not being around. I got stuck in a huge jury pool, and just today was I excused. However, I should be able to do this from now on.
I think its possible Shade could be balanced now, since a lot of other things have been changed about Necromancers. I have no idea for sure, since that is an incredibly powerful effect, but they did remove a lot (like perma DS, which was the biggest problem) that made it OP.
Yeah, because no other class is influenced by FotM right? I bet there isn’t anyone who started playing Engi with the HGH build. Reality is “main” classes are going to fluctuate a bit all the time. If we get a nice buff, we’ll see a lot more Necromancers, and then it will likely die back a little when the newness wears off, or the FotM switches back to someone else. Right now a lot of people are playing Ranger and Engi that frankly really dislike it, but play it because its good. If someone else becomes desireable or they get nerfed, they’ll swap off to something else.
So perhaps there should be a trait that grants life force when you are disabled? Or would you rather have something akin to Reaper’s Protection (i.e. a skill or trait that negatively affects people who stun the Necromancer)?
I have never tried Reaper’s Protection, so I don’t know if it’s any good.
Exactly. Or maybe a trait that does something like retaliation but with siphoning when we are CCed. There is plenty to play with, but basically similar mechanics to what we have now, but extended to dealing with CC. I’d really prefer to not have more stun breaks (but make Armor better), and go down this other line.
Would you like to have more skills that break stun, or would you like the recharge on one or more of our current stun breakers to be decreased?
I think both. We could use a stun break added onto a few (three at most, but really just one or two), and maybe slight reductions, nothing more than a few seconds. I think it would keep us balanced, as we are far more likely to eat CC currently, with very little ways to avoid a stun, so we should have more access to ways to survive them.
Stun breakers are the current system for that, but I wouldn’t say that needs to be the case. What is more important is that we need to be able to survive stuns in some way, and the way by which we do that I think should fit into our class theme, and stability just doesn’t really fit that well.
Just a note to what Badjas said, the condition timer will restart whenever there is not a condition (and I believe it has to be a ticking condition), so actually it would continuously restart the timer in that situation.
However if we assumed that on the first application a 10 second bleed (or any other ticking condition) was applied, then the 0.4 bleeds could tick, when they matched up.
I think we need more stun breakers, not stability.
That is wrong, stop trying.
It does not round down to 1 second. This has been posted a bunch of times, it has been explained over and over, conditions are rounded in tooltips only, a 1.3 second condition will be applied for 1.3 seconds.
Yes please. I’ve been wanting at least something like this for a while, anything would be nice, just so long as I at least know their HP.
And while yes we could pay attention, the issue is more so that if you are trying to play MM right, there is already a lot that you need to micro, and needing to follow up to 6 minion’s HP bars is not doable, when up to 3 of them are ranged (and going to be in different areas) and the others are all close. Not impossible, but would be far better if it wasn’t needed.
I would be more in favor of seeing how it worked from other game’s perspectives. I am in love with the might and magic mechanics of Necromancers. I feel that Leeching should scale off of damage, not healing power. 15-20% of the damage you inflict turns into health
While it works in other games, it would not here. It is the same issue as what BM rangers are; you should not be able to build high damage and survivability at the same time. You should have to give up damage to get survivability, in this case you get survivabililty by doing damage.
Food Buffs + This = Immune to most CC+Fear. No joke.
It also makes you immune to our BLEED proc, because it makes it less then a second, therefore 0.
That isn’t how conditions work.
Nice to see TA’s end fight is still stupidly hard.
That is crazy.
Chaplan is known to have a soft spot for Necros.
Introducing a new condition actually devalues all non-full condi cleanses.
Keeping him alive in PvE when its only you and him is hard, because he’ll probably take all the aggro. If you don’t want to run more minions, then just realize he’s going to die a lot (the other elites are pretty meh in levelling anyway).
I keep him alive (realize this is PvP) with Well of Blood and Mark of Evasion, with high healing power (heals him for 5.6k and 1.4-1.6k). If you are running staff, permanent regen is pretty easy and nice.
mightytroll, you say you main all classes. how is that possible? im not having a dig im just curious. I main necro and play alot of guard thief and warrior. tht like what your saying?
Obviously he plays every class the most of any class he plays.
Once upon a time a clever guy over at guildwars2guru created this survey, i do not remember his name. Hope it helps.
The problem is that chart is false, by a fair amount too.
Edit: oh wow, yeah like Softspoken said it is really off in some areas.
Yeah guys, I have jury duty so I literally just got home. Also, 5pm PST is 1 hour ago.
What they said was perfect. They are going to give us the tools we need to do our job, but with our specific flavor; not copying other classes.
What remains to be seen is how much they will get done in this upcoming patch, and also how well they can implement the things that they have said, and how well they actually help us. In theory, their changes are great, we’ll see how they come out in practice, although I’m hopeful.
I MM in PvP and some PvE. If you don’t understand, go into an sPvP game, find a big group of people and use Flesh Golem charge. It will make you happy on the inside.
What are you trying to bunker? I don’t doubt this could work in sPvP, because generally anything works there, but I see some conflicts in trying to make this work in other parts of PvP.
You get 3 major traits in Curses, max. Lets assume that since you are a condi build you are getting 3. To have both Terror and whatever Burning might be, you at most have 1 other slot. That means you have to give up condition duration traits, weakness traits, or Master of Corruption. So yes, you do a bit more damage/pressure, but you are now even weaker to damage, or have less common Corruption skills. That is a meaningful trade off.
And if you put it in spite, unless its at the 20 or 30 mark, that isn’t inaccessible. You’d just drop 10 from curses and put it into spite. That actually makes it possible to have 30 in curses and have your burning.
Not necessarily, about Bleeding+burning+terror. Terror already takes up a slot in people’s bar, with the upcoming buffs to weakness, those traits are indirectly being buffed as well. So if you put burning into the tree in addition to all that, you are keeping people from being able to have everything at once, since you can only ever have 3 traits from that tree, max.
I’m not exactly sure how much might affects him, because I don’t know what his power is compared to the damage of the skill he uses. That said, I wouldn’t go out of your way to buff your minions at the expense of something. So don’t try to do too much to give your minions buffs, but if you can do it using things that are already available or beneficial to a team then do so. Examples are using combo fields/finishers (this is going to require team help) to buff them, or running with support classes to give them buffs.
Oh, something to note; Spirit Rangers + MM’s = fun. That is a mathematical fact.
If someone has a guardian that would like to test out might stacking, it shouldn’t be too difficult to go to the mist, look at Flesh Golem’s damage, use Guardian staff 4 to give him might, look at it again, compare.
Fear is a strong enough build on its own via Terror that I don’t think we need to pidgeonhole our condi builds into needing fear. I’d like to see burning become kind of the alternative; condition builds could go terror or burning, with different strengths to each.
Key thing about Bone Fiend; it is on the same timing as his auto attack. All his active does is immobilize him for 5 seconds, and give him a buff for the duration that does what it has in the tooltip, so its really up to the timing of his auto attacks.
Just to clarify, are you suggesting that it be possible to stack more than the currently allowable number of conditions, or simply suggesting that at some point they are treated as a new “stack” as far as cleansing comes. So for example it would take 2 condition cleanses (each cleansing one condition) to clear 20 bleeds, as they are treated as two stacks of 10.
I’d be happy to take it on my minion builds, I just don’t think it would be the best way to give us burning.
And yeah, minions are actually really common everywhere just under the highest tiers.
I have a bad feeling it won’t be in Curses or Soul Reaping, which would make it unreachable, but I’m cautiously optimistic.
The only reason it wouldn’t go into those trees is if the trait had to do with something that belonged to another tree, and even then it would make the most sense to put it into the Condition tree.
so what DPS utility skills would you use? I made the OP because I was wondering what our best DPS skills are… BiP is indeed really good, but what else do Necros have that increase our DPS?
Minions have good sustained DPS, but you shouldn’t use them only for that. Look at their secondary uses and use them for the damage and that.
Minion skills DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT, scale with any of your stats. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch. The only thing that you would benefit from would be bloodthirst helping out their healing to you if you choose that trait. Other than that, nothing scales. The stats are fixed, which is why a minion master can spec however the hell they want to because it doesn’t matter at all with regards to minions.
Yet again, the damage that the conditions they apply, and the length of those conditions, are both affected by your stats. That is why with just a little bit of condi duration you can perma cripple someone with Flesh Golem.
DS 5 isn’t likely to inflict burning, unless it inflicts both this new condition and burning. I’m betting it will be via some trait, probably replacing one of our worse ones in the Curses tree.
It is totally new condition, one that has not been in the game before. It may not remain unique to necros, but we will have the first access to it.
(edited by Bhawb.7408)
It is still fixed. The only thing that minions do that scale with you is damage from conditions they apply (so if Bone Fiend shoots through a fire field and burns someone, its your condition damage used or Death Nova poison) and the condition duration (you can increase the duration of their conditions).
Putrid Explosion still does a crapload of damage especially when you consider both of them and 30% extra damage.
Thanks for the testing Bhawb!
I did not know that minions don’t share your critical chance.
So minions don’t share your power or precision — do they share any of your stats (besides condition damage)? Maybe critical damage?This is kind of disturbing… so if your build depends on minions for damage, seems like you should go for full condition stats (or maybe defensive). (I’m talking PvE.. don’t think minion builds work in WvW, don’t know anything about tPvP.)
Minions don’t share any of your stats. That is why they work great with bunker builds, because similar to BM rangers minions can do high damage (although not the broken levels that they have) while in a tanky build.
Each minion has their own stats, just like a Ranger pet does, except we can’t see them like they do. Bone Minions, for example, have a much lower crit chance than the rest.
And yes, take the 30% damage, which was not included in my listed numbers. That damage is very important in any minion build that is wanting to use them as sources of high damage, as it applies to Putrid Explosion as well, which makes those things hit like trucks.