Guild Wars 2

BobbyStein.2315:

I think you both have summed it up quite nicely: certain player frustrations aren’t with the fact that there’s a story in raids (or that the story is “bad” or “poorly told” in their opinion) it’s just that the content is out of reach for them and they want to experience playing it somehow.

Since that’s not something I can personally change, I’m hesitant to engage in discussions surrounding that because I have nothing to add. I can’t/won’t/don’t want to convince anyone that their opinion is bad or invalid, but since many of these suggestions fall outside the scope of what I do (or what the vision for raids as a whole is) I can only listen.

It is true you personally are not responsible for this, but you are also working for the developer who produces this content. So suggesting it to you, who can in turn suggest it to the people who actually can change something, is more fruitful than trying to reach the upper echelons from here.

That said, I personally don’t mind the raids as they are, even though I never set foot into one, as neither free time and probably skill (or time to develop that skill) would allow it. I would actually like a solo-able story mode, without rewards, but I realize that this needs time and effort you guys can’t spare with your limited resources.

The OoW Lady Wi had grey hair though, and if I remember correctly the WM Lady Wi had darker hair and overall looked younger. But we know that Minister Wi and his wife had a daughter. We never saw her, we can only hear her playing an instrument. So it could be her, technically she would also be Lady Wi.

I honestly have no idea what your problem is. You complain that the puzzle isn’t optional and then you concede it is optional and suddenly the problem is that there is an option to do the puzzle? Or is the problem that the second option is fighting a security drone? In that case it goes down to gameplay, why do the puzzle at all if you can just order Taimi to do it. That would be nonsense, the second option had to have a “challenge”.
Also Taimi is still a child, of course she will giggle when she has the oppurtunity to test our wits. And there isn’t really a reason to make haste. Yes she wants to show us her results, but it’s not like the lab will explode in 2 minutes. So let her have her fun, she hasn’t seen us in a quite a while.
I liked that part, it blended gameplay with a character moment.

Jaken.6801:

Why do we have to clear puzzle, if Taimi is perfectly capable to do so? I saw her laughing at meand it was supposed to be her messing with us, but for me she starts to get more and more annoying in a negative way. It was charming at first, now I want her to get her Asura head back to earth…
The puzzle could be a perfect optional thing to do and then the szene wouldn’t be so annoying for me.

The puzzle is optional though, there are even achievements both for doing and skipping the puzzle.

went full White Mantle. But appearently he didn’t read the pamphlets to well, it seems he wasn’t aware that they had to worship the Mursaat.

Music and song to fight dragons you say?

Really? A love triangle? What’s next? Rytlock finding out that Almorra is his long lost mother? Zojja waking up from her coma and pointing at the one who did this to her? Logan going to Cantha to “study” and being replaced by a generic other guy named Trevor?

So I guess the point that the Marshall can’t be a member of any order that makes up the Pact is a moot point now. Good, Soulkeeper is a fine choice and more qualified than Trahearne has ever been. This also means we get to see her again in the LS, I bet. If I remember correctly she hasn’t had any appearences after the PS, which is weird considering she was the leader of the Vigil and by that a high ranking Pact member.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

• @ : 48 – wing2 footage with new audio: Possibly Caudecus shouting? Sounds less whiny than Caudecus but could be a case of different situation-different tone and/or voice actor forgetting how he did Caudecus after 4 years. If not Caudecus, probably unknown-to-us Confessor. But why would they reveal their plan so soon?

I watched the trailer in german now, since I’m more familiar with the german voices. That is Caudecus, atleast it’s his german VA, so I asume it’s the same in english.

My main is a norn engineer. Screw stereotypes, norn are more than dumb muscles.

I was hoping we would get to that Dwarven Valley that was teased with the E3 concept art, but I guess the new map (?) seems to be north of Maguuma. While I doubt it, getting to Janthir this season would be cool.

OriOri.8724:

Why does everyone focus on voice actors being expensive? Unless ANet says that is the reason they kill off players then its not true.

Anet sacrifices players to pay the voice actors?! Are they all Mursaat???

/s

I don’t know if I accidentally sparked the Joko in raid discussion by mentioning raids as a possibility to continue the story, but if I did I have to reiterate that I wrote raid and new Living Story. The way I see it a new raid should introduce the theme of the next LS, not be the end of it.
In other words I was imagining the raid like this: While the Pact is busy fighting Kralky, the OoW finds a fort build by Joko’s forces which holds an artifact that would allow him to absorb the dying dragon’s magic. So they recruite a team for a covered ops mission to destroy the device before it can be used. Of course it would be heavily guarded, by some elite mooks but not Joko himself.
This incident, among others that could happen during the expansion would spark the OoW vs. Joko war and then you have the next LS. Just as an example how it could be done.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

The Pact already has quite a number of strains, the Order of Whispers doesnt necessarily “have” to be the good guy forever, hell it could even make things more interesting having Joko work with the players and even turning the OOW against you temporarily.

Completely agree here. In order to make the Mordremoth campaign interesting Anet had to destroy the Pact physically, doing that again would be boring. A Joko alliance could solve several problems.
A: The Pact’s never ending ressources. After losing the entire airship fleet the Pact shouldn’t have the funds to go after the next ED alone, so an alliance with Joko’s forces could make a Kralkatorrik campaign believable.

B: The Pact already knows how to kill EDs, so you need to weaken them to make it thrilling again (not like they’d lose, but you catch my drift). So an inner conflict could solve this. The Vigil wants to ally with Joko for practical reasons, the OoW is adamantly against that, knowing what happened the last time and the Durmand Priory understands both sides, but pushes for the alliance thinking, they can learn from past mistakes and not repeat them (i.e. containing Joko after the ED’s death). This could lead to the OoW leaving the Pact and fighting Joko as an indepentend force.

C: We actually get to see the Marshall organizing the Pact and trying to preserve order. A lot of criticism for Trahearne came from the players not knowing what he actually does. He seems to either tag along with the commander or let him make all important tactical decisions. If he didn’t have Caladbolg and knew his way around Orr, he wouldn’t have been of any use at all for the Pact. And even then it was debatable if he needed to be Marshall, as the things we saw him do, could have been done from a counselor position. But dealing with a large rift in your forces, now that is a Marshall’s duty.

Also this could be a good set-up for a raid and new Living Story: After we have dealt with the dragon, we make good on a promise to the OoW to seal Joko and free Elona.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And Zhaitan’s been gone for three years now… Joko could quite literally invade at any moment.

Reading thise sentence just gave me the coolest vision. Imagine that, Living Story Season whatever steers us towards Kralky. The commander and friends are on mission to find an OoW agent who has an urgent message for the Marshall (whoever that is at that point). We help him deliver the package and end the season with cinematic, similar to season 2, as a lead into a new expansion.

Cut to a land covered in sand, a merciless sun shines on a bright yellow desolation. A narration begins about how sometimes to defeat a common enemy you must find allies in the strangest places. The camera zooms into a temple like structure through a dark hall way. The clicking and cracking of old bones shuffeling around can be heard as the camera ventures deeper into the complex, while the narration continues to describe Machiavelian scheming. Finally we arrive in a throne room covered in shadow. Two torches just shine in light to make out a figure sitting on the throne. As the figure finishes his narration he leans forward revealing the mumified face of Joko. He might say something cheezy, like “guess who’s joining the party”.

And there you have a cliché ridden, yet instantly awesome trailer. Pretty much perfect for Joko.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

Lazarus is hardly a MAJOR player in the lore of GW1, but he has the GREATEST potential to become THE most iconic villian of GW2. An all but minor character appearing in War in Kryta’s final act and basically being the sole survivor of the Mursaat that roamed in Kryta (Assuming he may even be the last of his race) he has every reason to hate and resent Humanity and all its potential allies.

Slight correction, Lazarus did not appear in War in Kryta at all. His quest already happened during Eye of the North and he made an appearance in Saul’s Bonus Mission.

To be honest, it doesn’t matter to GW2’s storyline if they know or not, since that plot is done. It might have gotten a little revisit if Evon had won the election and his Abaddon fractal was implemented instead of Kiel’s Thaumanova. But as it stands, the only plot relevant fact is that the Charr, more specifically the Flame Legion, summoned the Searing.

So does the average citizen know it was Abaddon? No, I don’t think so. Humans might know the name from the cult of Kormir, maybe even the cults of the other gods too but I’m not sure if they would know the connection of Abaddon → Titans → Flame Legion. That’s something the heroes of Nightfall found out. By that extend the knowledge passed to the Order of Whispers and probably the Durmand Priory, they perform a mini-searing after all, so it’s likely they know what is behind its magic.
But those are the Orders, not average citizens. Those are details that aren’t really of interest to the public, in fact it might even be dangerous to give that information away. Imagine if the White Mantle, or the Inquest figured out how to cause a Searing. Besides, not counting some obscure human scriptures, Abaddon seems to be more or less forgotten by history anyway. As I said, aside from maybe humans, I doubt any of the races average member has heard the name before.

I think it’s coincidence, just similar design. Gorseval has no connection to either Mordremoth or the Exalted, he is more like a proto-titan, a construct made from souls.

Where did you get that Old Ascalon only refers to pre-Searing Ascalon? I mean, maybe you are right, I just haven’t heard it before. Either way, her disappearance was after the Searing, but before the Foefire.

Scott McGough.6897:

We are working on a more reliable and comprehensive method of addressing lore questions, and I will keep you posted.

That’s great news! I hope my question about Krytan royalty will be adressed too then (after it was skipped… grumble grumble… I still like you though)

Squee.7829:

It is exactly as Diovid said. Anet did just fine with the Mursaat. It’s the players linking every unsolved mystery to them that was out of hand.

In that case, my apologies.

Squee.7829:

I felt like the Mursaat were overdone in GW1. And at no fault of Anet’s story telling. The players themselves just seemed to LOVE sticking mursaat into stories where they really didn’t need to be for the sake of some theory or another. I never quite saw the obsession. They were kinda neat I guess, but come on. Don’t Deadpool the Mursaat (i.e stick them in every single story and thought to the point where we get sick of seeing them).

The Mursaat appeared in exactly three storylines. The main campaign of Prophecies, which introduced them, the quest about Lazarus the Dire, which was put in as a potential lead into Guild Wars 2 (which is finally paying off) and some appeared in the War in Kryta.
In the first story they did technically not need to be, but no player demanded it either, they just were and became popular. The second needs a Mursaat because that is all the quest is about. Now I grant you that they did not need to be in the War in Kryta storywise, but it did make the White Mantle even more of a threat and gave the heroes an additional obstacle to overcome, so their appearance is entirely justified. So how are three stories, which all include the Mursaat in a very justified and reasonable way, “Deadpooling” them?

Danikat.8537:

I hate to disappoint you but I thought GW1 made it pretty clear the mursaat were wiped out and only Lazarus was left.

I’d be happy to be proven wrong but I’d be very surprised to see them in GW2, especially as a major race.

To be fair Lazarus was the last we heard of until War in Kryta, which had a handful of new Mursaat… which were also killed in the battle for Lion’s Arch. Still this could hint at more of them having escaped the Titan attack. Slim chance though.

What about Destiny’s Edgier? Eh? Eh? Okay I see myself out.

In all seriousness though, I don’t get why they need a new name either. They were
Destiny’s Edge, it’s just that simple. They had the same mission and some of the members are the same or at least had history with the original DE members.

Besides those names all sound cringey. Dragon’s Watch (well Drachenwacht actually) got my vote, it’s the only thematically fitting of those names. But I’d prefer them to be
Destiny’s Edge.

And since the Consortium had control over the design, they made it touristy and theme park-like.

Oh wow. I feel like a deer in the headlights right now. Usually I have a ton of small questions I’d like to ask, but when a Dev finally comes to answer them I blank!

I got one though, can you share some light on the Krytan royal family tree? There is some good guesswork done here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tyrian_royalty_family_tree

Maybe you can fill in some blanks. Is the last unkown son of King Baede Roderick? Is Roderick Jennah’s grandfather or father?

draxynnic.3719:

If you view the Scarlet’s War cinematic, the Pact Commander is shown as a female norn (I think) wearing scanty armour – I think it might be heavy, but I haven’t identified the specific pieces – it could also be light.

Could be indicative, could just be that it wasn’t practical to show the PC there for some reason and that’s just what they happened to pick at random.

I was about to post that, but then I couldn’t remember in which exact video I saw that female norn. And then I forgot to look it up later. But I think the same character is also in the release trailer, you know that weird artsy one which barely contained any game footage. She is one of the player characters rising from the sea at the end.

Moonyeti.3296:

When danger reared it’s ugly head,
Sir Ruruk turned his tail and fled.
Brave, brave, brave, brave sir Rurik!

Sir Rurik the-not-quite-so-brave-as-Sir Kilroy, who nearly fought Vatlaaw Doomtooth, who nearly stood up to the prize winning hog and who had personally wet himself at the battle of Nolani Academy.

Matt H.6142:

What is canon for Modremoths appearance? HOT media shows 3 different looks and the wiki seems to confuse the mouth of mordremoth with the dragon itself. To the best of my knowledge, the game hasn’t explained what the mouth of Modremoths is and just what exactly it is connected to.

The wiki doesn’t confuse anything, the Mouth of Mordremoth is exactly what it says it is, the physical mouth (and head and most of it’s body) of Mordremoth. This is not directly stated in game, but strongly hinted by lines suggesting that Hearts and Minds takes place during the end of the Dragon’s Stand meta event. Mordremoth is attacked phyiscally and mentally at the same time.
Now I don’t think the Mouth is all of Mordremoth. We never see were he ends, so I asume he is actually rooted in the ground. Kinda like those piranha plants from Mario. That’s how imagine it anyway. That root would also be the starting point of all the vines we see everywhere, so they are also part of Mordy’s physical body, or atleast spawn from that. It is said he can rebuild himself from these corrupting vines, so I guess it’s fair to say they are connected to his body.

BobbyStein.2315:

If we ever decide to do something

Guild Wars 3: The Kossening confirmed?

Tanith.5264:

I checked Glint’s egg as someone on Reddit suggested. Not sure if it’s always looked quite like this…

Looks exactly like I remember it, what’s supposed to be different?

Koss is so cool, he froze time around himself.

Sird.4536:

It would take an Elder Dragon to siege Rata Sum. I don’t see how the Mordrem with no real leader could assault a floating city.

Who is Mordremoths lieutenant? Tequatal got stronger after Zhaitans death, Claw of Jormag is still around, The Great Destroyer from GW1 was Primordias, Bubbles we don’t know much about, Shatterer with Kralk. The dragon that assaulted the Pale Tree perhaps? Or the 3 champions in DS who I would guess are dead along with Mordremoth.

I don’t quite agree, there are enough potential dragon champions of Mordremoth we simply might not have meet yet. I mean someone must have lead the army marching east. Could have even been a Mordrem Guard, maybe someone we know. I think of the suspiciously abstent Carys, leader of the Pale Reavers as an example. I mean she could have succumbed to Mordy’s influence.

But even if that is still too unbelievable for you, the villains could be replaced by Destroyers or maybe even Chak that are attracted by the magic in Rata Sum. The important part is the attack on Rata Sum imo, who does it, isn’t that important, though it would solve the small plot whole of what ever happened to those large amounts of Mordrem waltzing through Tangled Deapths.

Is this the first time we heard from Ree since Sea of Sorrows was pusblished in 2013? Certainly feels like it. I hope there is a good reason for her absence, like writing another novel maybe?

Well you could still play it, if the Council flees Rata Sum before the attack, but doesn’t organize the evacuation of the city. I think that would really drive home how corrupt the council has become. I mean I had no idea how the Council ticked, I thought that Inquest liaison and Phlunt were the extent of the corruption, but then I played the Asura storyline for the first time and boy did it open my eyes.
That’s why I think it would be interesting if this is brought to the light before the entire Asuran (and player) community. I think such a storyline could have similar impact on the Asura as the dragon minion reveal had on the Sylvari (well it isn’t played out all that much ingame yet, but you catch my drift).

I think Deroirs Tyrian Characterology is pretty much free of speculation. However there aren’t many episodes and most of them revolve around the LS season 1 and part of season 2. So I wouldn’t say they are a good introduction to the lore, but they can help fill the gap between PS and the HoT story.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

When you think of how much history is defined by the victors, think of the opinion of Louie IV in the french revolution, or Napoleon after he lost his campaigns in russia, or the battle of waterloo(I think it was waterloo, I dont remember off the top of my head)

Liverpool maybe…

Someone needs to listen to more Abba…

:P

I think one could write essays on the influence of different mythologies on fantasy setting. I guess somebody already has. That reminds me of my shameless self promotion, I’m going to start a mythology based podcast soon (and by that I mean some time this year), that among other things also deal with such influences. It will be in my native language though… well I guess you can check it out if you want to learn german, I will make an effort to speak rather slow and clear. Maybe I will upload it as video with subtitles, the details aren’t set in stone yet.

Narcemus.1348:

I highly doubt that BuddhaKeks is claiming that Christianity is a myth, Emiko. I would say that most people are smart enough not to broach critique of religious views on these forums (at least not RL religious beliefs). I think he is merely using he term mythology to classify Christian lore on angels and demons, something which I as a Christian do not take any offense to. Anyways, probably best if the conversation gets back to In game lore and not RL lore. Because honestly they don’t mesh.

Pretty much. I was just trying to say that I don’t know which particular branch of Christianity Emiko follows, so I proposed sticking with the common denominator, which is the Bible. I admit I wasn’t taking into account that the word mythology could be interpreted as me equating a religion to “bed-time stories” or some such. I actually hoped I was fairly neutral in my approach, as my own personal feelings on religion have nothing to do with the discussion.
So apologies if I offended anyone. I however agree that we should come back to the lore of the game.

Well Abaddon and Satan are not the same. It’s made pretty clear that Abaddon is the keeper of the underworld, while Satan is “The Adversary” as Finalfreefall correctly pointed out, so he is the tester of men, he has nothing to do with the underworld. Satan actually appears as a servant of God in the Old Testament, so here it isn’t even ambigous, Satan is an angel not a demon.

I mean you can go ahead and argue with non-canonical scriptures that greek, roman and other scholars wrote much later, if you want. I know the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Abaddon is actually Jesus, because he throws the devil back into hell.

Point is, christian mythology is confusing because there are so many different branches (Nestorians = Bestorians!*) and pretty much all of them depict the same characters completely different. But if we go strictly by the Bible, so Old and New Testament, than we can’t say for certain that Abaddon is evil or a demon. All we know is he does what God told him to and he has a key to the underworld. Doesn’t sound that demonic to me.

*Just a joke, I actually don’t care

Emiko, you are arguing with the translation of a translation. The original hebrew makes it very ambiguous whether Abaddon is a demon or a servant of God. Judiging by the Old Testament, he is just the keeper of the underworld. Nothing inherently wrong with that.
His association with locusts first appears in the greek New Testament, in the latin translation he is called the destroyer. So you can call it a case of adaptional villainy.

Either way Arena Net just burrowed the name, which is very common in fiction nowadays. In that light it doesn’t matter that much what the original character stood for, it’s all about their version. Which was evil, but also associated with hidden knowledge and therefor a good represantation for the hidden archive.

Don’t worry I know, I just need this from time to time to feel better about myself. /s

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Why not have an archaic statue of the god of knowledge in the foyer of a museum?

/nitpick mode on

Technically that is not an archaic statue, it’s more classical if not hellenistic in style.

/nitpick mode off

I think LS3 should open up with the pact dealing with the last Mordrem forces. Specifically the ones that headed east (seen in Tangled Depths). The siege of Rata Sum could be a nice opening event, with a champion of Mordremoth absorbing some of the dragons power and leading the Mordrem to attack the asuran capital.

Aside from putting a nice bookend on the Mordremoth arc, it would also put the Asura in danger for the first time since Primordus initial attack. Compared to the other races the Asura had it pretty nice in Rata Sum, not too much problems with dragon minions, their designated evil faction, the Inquest, beeing less hostile to them than other villain factions are to their races (e.g. Charr – Flame Legion) and them not having a minor race waging a full out war with them (e.g. humans – centaurs).

I think a devastating attack on Rata Sum could balance things out again between the playable races and also strengthen the Asura vs. Sylvari story line, which is often alluded to, but isn’t played out all that much.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Which while awesome, is a bit disappointing because that would mean we get very little primary screen time for the aftermath of sylvari, which was barely covered in HoT. I really hope it doesn’t just get swept under the rug ‘because Mordremoth is dead now’.

Maybe they approach it a little more like season 1. While season 2 had several plots (preparing the assault, the mystery of the egg etc.) they were all connected, but season 1 had the South Sun Cove plot and the Captain’s Council election which both had only slight connections to the Scarlet arc.
So they could potentially tell both stories seperate from another. Atleast I don’t see how the Sylvari storyline connects to the White Mantle (well aside from Ronan’s story maybe).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It’s the vendor. She got renamed from “Priory Scholar” to “Scholar Glenna”.

Cool thanks. Though I was hoping it would be the Charr medic, we already have so many named female Asura (Dessa, Levvi, Tassi, Taimi, Zojja and so on).

Thanks a lot for the screenshots. This might be one of the biggest lore chunks Anet has ever given us in GW2. Now I really wish there was a story mode without rewards. ;P

I might take you up on the offer to explore the instance, provided I find the time this weekend.

Liewec.2896:

pretty much like super evil versions of the Exalted you meet in HoT

Not at all. They have nothing to do with each other, except they are both golden and floaty. The Exalted are humans who sacrificed their bodies to bind their souls to golden (and sometimes silver) armor, with the help of Forgotten magic.

The Mursaat are a race of ancient spellcasters that could phase out of Tyria’s reality and kill people with a powerful spell called Spectral Agony. Most of them were killed by the Titans, many more died in the Krytan civil war a few years later.

By the way, Bobby mentioned there would be an NPC in Spirit Vale that previously had no name, but would get one with this release. Has anyone already found out who he ment?

A lot of people would fit that description. Can you be more specific?

Though for power hungry alone I guess I can recommend Galrath for example.