Guild Wars 2

Does a norn-sized glass eye fit into a human skull? Now I can’t stop picturing Bongo like this.

Bongo was not with the nobles, in fact during the event chain you escort some nobles to him and inform him of what happened to them and their ship. Like EdwinLi said, he is with the Pact, as some kind of instructor.

Diovid.9506:

That is highly subjective. I enjoy both GW1 and GW2 but for very different reasons. There is no guarantee that the OP will enjoy GW1.

So? Op can’t know if he likes it or not if he/she hasn’t tried it. And I’d say if he/she is really interested in Charr lore or lore in general then it is worth it for that alone. It’s not like the games are terribly expensive and objectively they are very well made, so it’s definitely not a waste of time and money.

His reflection? Agent Spire is a woman quite fine one if I might say so. Unfortunately I have nothing to add to the speculation on what she could refer too, so I would suggest to see it as what it is, just a joke.

I still prefer to call him Spongebob, the terror of Bikini Bottom.

EdwinLi.1284:

I’m talking about her Necro Powered Golems, not Oola herself.

Her Golems are currently over 250 years old but are still functioning due to their power source been Necro Energy.

Also, I mentioned Oola being in GW2 because her Soul is attached to her Golems. Oola’s Spirit becoming one with her Golem was only a side effect due to it being Necro Energy powering them for the past 250 years.

If I remember correctly M.O.X. used similar energy source but that was only one of his Energy due to the multiple forms he takes on each Avatar state.

I don’t think Oola’s Golems are over 250 years old, she might as well build them decades after we met her. It’s saver to say they are over 200 years old. Besides those are special circumstances, as those were on one hand special Golems created with necromantic energy, this could make them more long lived for all we know and second they were in her lab, so in a confined area, without too much environmental threats. We don’t know were M.O.X. ended up, but as I said before, he might as well have been destroyed in battle, considering he was a Golem build exactly for that.

Gee Kalavier, you don’t have to be a buzzkill everytime someone mentions references to the GW1 heroes. :P

I can’t think of any references off the top of my head and I’m pretty sure there aren’t even references to his creator Zinn. That said, we can’t be certain M.O.X. is still functioning after 250 years. He might have been destroyed in battle or his energy source may have depleted entirely. If we get to see him, it will likely be in a non-functioning state.

Kaleban.9834:

“E” is obviously Elminster, keeping an eye on the Bhaalspawn

Now who is our Volo? Maybe the guy from Tyrian Explorer’s Guild that keeps writing you when you do map completion.

ronpierce.2760:

Still could be rifle.

Looks like that thief has to compensate for something, am I right?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

For the first time, I actually find that this seemingly pointless and poorly coded article Santax made way back has a purpose.

I remember when I first found that article years ago I thought, this might be useful in the future. And then I totally forgot about it. :P

In the Ash Legion storyline for Charr you have to kill a a traitor that joined the Flame Legion, called Trybulus Griefblade (that name is pretty rad, I might say). After you put a stop to his plans Rytlock has the following to say:

Rytlock Brimstone: Ha! Nice work, soldier. That was so much fun, I don’t want to stop. Here, I’ll hold up Trybulus’ body, and you kill him again.

Also the entirety of the Norn “blacked out” storyline is super quotalbe. In their drunken state the Norn PC and a Charr stole a vehicle and then forgot where they parked it leading to this:

Mangonel Gearstrip: Hey, Slayer? Any luck remembering where we took it? I remember driving through snow, trying to spell “JORMAG EATS DUNG!” That was your idea.

The warrior always showed feats that an ordinary human can’t do, like hulking out in rampage form or summoning banners from thin air. The general theory is that warrior has access to a simple, kind of primal form of magic. He can’t really control it, but if the adrenalin has his blood boiling he releases his anger in magical burst. The Berserker is just the continuation of this trend.

“Always Angry”, I guess that’s his secret.

draxynnic.3719:

Remember, lorewise the PC is the Pact’s best fighter by far. While Zojja may have been exaggerating, her statement in Season 2 that the PC is over 70% of Destiny’s Edge’s firepower implies that the PC is better at killing enemies using his or her own skills than five of Tyria’s best NPC heroes combined. By the point Trahearne gets Caladbolg, having the PC wield a weapon that is basically a matter of pointing the sword at the enemy and letting the sword’s magic do its thing is a waste of the PC’s own awesome combat skills.

I don’t think that’s an exaggeration. It needed the entirety of Destiny’s Edge and a lot often preparing to kill a dragon champion like the Dragon Spawn or the Destroyer of Life. The PC killed a comparable dragon champion, the Shadow of the Dragon, in a one on one duel. Granted, he had divine fire, which apparently is super effective against Mordrem (maybe all dragon minions?), but he also defeated him on his own before, during the World Summit event.
Overall I think the LW S2, did a much better job showing how powerful the PC really is, than the previous story lines. Of course the PS was more or less his origin story, so it makes sense he isn’t quite as tough from the beginning and LW S1 was more open world content than story instances. Still I hope they continue this trend in the HoT story.

You all raise some good points. Thank you for your input. Though I wondered, would Dhuum consider the Risen as creatures that try to escape death? They are very different from regular undead, but in a way they are undead, as they are usually created from corpses. If I think about it, the same question applies to other dragon minions, like the Icebrood that are completely frozen to the bone or the Mordrem that are skeletons with vines around them. They are technically cheating death as much as a corpse commanded by a necromancer is, or don’t they?

So I have been thinking Dhuum recently and this quote: ‘Dhuum ruled from his tower in the Underworld, and tolerated neither resurrections nor the existence of the undead, and he hunted down all those who escaped death, having promised “death undeniable.”’ So obviously Dhuum did not allow necromancy, but more than that he hunted down the undead (which is some what hypocritical considering he used undead himself in his armies later on).

Zhaitan as we all know uses the Risen a.k.a. a form of undead as his minions. Now my question is, would Dhuum have been be able to deny Zhaitan his Risen minions if he was still the god in charge of the Underworld instead of Grenth? If so, there are however 2 other questions coming up:
1. Why doesn’t Grenth do anything against the Risen? Is it because he like the other gods decided to not intervene in Tyria anymore or is there more behind it?
2. When Dhuum “forbid” the undead, there were actually Risen on Tyria, like the Giganticus Lupicus, probably in some kind of hibernation like the Great Destroyer and the Drakkar Beast were. Why didn’t he hunt them down? There they hidden from him?

That again ties into other questions (we have to go deeper!). Can Zhaitan’s magic be considered Necromancy? It looks very similar, but it doesn’t seem to be affected by the regulations of gods of the Underworld. That is if they are even powerful enough to overrule an Elder Dragon, but why wouldn’t they be, the Forgotten obviously could break the bond between ED and minion. The other question is, did the gods even know of the EDs existence. They seemed to be drawn to Arah, but just because it was a place of great magic, or did they know about Zhaitan.
There is a popular theory that Abaddon knew and gifted magic freely to the mortal races, either to prepare them for another dragon rise or maybe to use up the magic sealed in the Bloodstone (which as we know is older than the previously believed story about King Doric). Abaddon was the god of secrets, so if he knew about the EDs he might not have shared that knowledge with the other gods… or did he share it with Dhuum, who enacted his ban on the undead and resurrections to prevent Zhaitan from stocking up his armies when he awakens? After all a body you just bury or cremate probably decomposes faster than someone that is resurrected over and over again. But hey that’s just a theory…. a lore theory. So share your thoughts.

Yalora Istairiea.6287:

Yes, I was having rough time coming up with examples for that one. Grenth was maybe a bad example. I didn’t pick Abaddon because well, I killed him in GW1 so how powerful was he really? As for the ED’s, yes they are somewhat locally confined while sleeping and when they wake up it might take them decades just to roll out of bed. Also, they where around way before the Human Gods showed up and the last time they awoke didn’t almost ALL of the civilized world at the time perish?

You have to keep in mind that Abaddon was basically just a head and two hands when we fought him. He was far away from his true strength, which is set to be so strong that he defeated 2 others gods at the same time on his own once. It took 3 gods fighting him simultaneously to take him down and that fight created a vast desert out of an ocean that spans over two continents. The ritual we stopped Varesh from finishing would have allowed him to regain more of his strength.
But even in this weakend form he spread his corruption all across the globe (Tomb of the Primeval Kings in Tyria, the Fortune Teller in Cantha and of course Nightfall in Elona), not only much quicker than any of the EDs but also on a much larger scale. Abaddon alone was as much as global threat as the EDs are together. Also unlike the EDs he could influence the Mists, a power no ED has shown to be capable off (Jormag tries by corrupting Havrouns though).
I mean yes the EDs are very powerful and definitely a threat Tyrians have to take care of, but Abaddon was on a whole other level. Lorewise he was by far the most powerful being we have ever faced. I’m not sure if Dhuum or Zhaitan come in second, with Dhuum being in a weakend state too when we fight him, but he was also originally taken down by demi-god and 7 mortal heroes. Zhaitan was weakend too and taken down by weapons specifically designed to kill him.

And yeah, in the end it doesn’t matter for the purpose of your example, but I have the feeling that many of the people who have never played GW1 or payed too much attention to the storyline, often underestimate how powerful Abaddon was. Probably because Anet hyped the EDs so much, many people think they are stronger than any of the gods, but in reality they have shown no sign of that at all so far. An ED could maybe take down a god in a 1vs1 due to their ability to feed on magic, but I actually doubt it. Especially since they can’t travel to the Mists like the gods.

Yalora Istairiea.6287:

Who: Grenth,

Grenth was at no point the villain (well maybe Wintersday in GW1, but there it was more playful than serious) and also he is a god and thus atleast as strong as an ED probably stronger. I don’t think he makes sense at all as example. Abaddon maybe, but he is more in the category above. Actually I think the ED’s should be in the demi-god category, as they are still locally confined, while Abaddon easily spread his corruption on all continents. And that when he was beginning to get his power back.

slayert.5904:

Seems the elite spec is giving exactly what jalis should have already given us…protection..

Did you have problems with Jalis tankyness? I didn’t, I thought he was fine, but he is more of a CC-spec than a defensive support anyway.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@BuddhaKeks: the minions in CoE do not fight each other – but there’s only one room where multiple minion types are near each other, and it’s a room that Alpha shows up in right after their deaths. CoE wouldn’t be a good example either way, however, as Alpha (and potentially Kudu’s Monster) is indicated to be able to control all of said minions present.

I thought so, I just wasn’t sure anymore and didn’t want to leave out potenital evidence.

At this point all I could say is: “yeah maybe”. Though I’m not sure if the dragons are that directly pitted against each other. So far we have only been told they don’t work together, but we never saw them actually fighting one another. Do their minions fight in the Crucible of Eternity? I can’t remember, but I haven’t done that dungeon in almost 3 years. But even if they do, those are still special circumstances and not their “natural” environment. So while the dragons don’t work together, they also take not steps at all at working against each other. Either they are content with their territory or they try to avoid being at each others throat as long as possible, so until the races are gone or ressources are scarce.
I also wouldn’t say Mordremoth is the strongest of them, I mean Zhaitan lifted an entire peninsula from the depths of the ocean when he awoke, Jormag shattered the Far Shiverpeaks and Kralkatorrik scared Ascalon and the Crystal Desert just by flying over it. Those are all deeds comparable to Mordy’s vines attacking the ley-lines. Speaking of which, it also must be noted that he was fed with magical energy by Scarlet prior to his awakening, so that might be a reason why he seems so strong. On the other hand, that might be the regular method of dragons awakening, after all we know the Great Destroyer had the duty to wake up Primordus, potenitally by feeding him magic.
And at last, yes we know Zhaitan’s death had consequences, Tequatl’s power boost is confirmed to be one of them. It could still be coincidence that Mordremoth was the one to awaking soon after Zhaitan’s death. In other words, if Zhaitan was still alive, Scarlet still might have been corrupted and awakened Mordy. The only reason I could think of, how Zhaitan’s death could have caused Mordy’s rise, is that Zhaitan might have intervened when Scarlet drilled into the ley-line to get the energy for himself, if he was still alive.

penelopehannibal.8947:

No to mounts!

I’ve just taken one shot of the GW2 Forum drinking game. No doubt when someone adds a .gif I’ll be taking shot 2 real soon.

Are you looking for the quickest way to get alcohol poisoning? Because I’m certain you just found it.

The orb that crashes into the centre circle in the vision is the one symbolizing Zhaitan. Atleast if they are in the same position as the map in the Durmand Priory. Zhaitan is the left middle row orb, if you follow him with your eyes you’ll see he swings to the right behind the circle and then to the left into the foreground, before it lights up and crashes into the circle. It’s asumed to represent Zhaitan’s death having an effect on the balance of the All.

Yeah I have to side with Crixler too, the line looks more poetic than factual. Especially since it comes from the Zephyrites, a culture known more for mystifying than doing empirical research.
I still hope the reveal some new lore about Glint in the next PoI, or atleast tease something. It feels like ages since we’ve gotten something meaty to sink our teeth into.

Yeah the booth wasn’t all that impressive. I ended up not going there, partly due to the long waiting time and partly due my group being not very interested, so I rather went with them instead of waiting for hours alone in a queue. I just came back in time to get a taste of HoT from the BWE.
That said the party was awesome. Shout out to everyone else that was there.

draxynnic.3719:

Huh. When I saw this thread, I thought you were going to suggest “Meet the (profession)” videos like the Team Fortress ones…

You and me both. How disappointing.

Rhaegar.1203:

Brain size is, generally speaking, not an indicator of intelligence. Whales and Elephants have bigger brains than humans, yet it is largely accepted humans are smarter (With a few exceptions).

Adding to this, the surface of a brain is an indicator to how developed it is. That’s why a human brain has so many “wrinkles” (probably not the right technical term, sorry), allowing it to have more surface area on a smaller room. Though even then I wouldn’t say that there is a direct relation between surface area and intelligence. In other words, even if your brain is more wrinkly when mine doesn’t necessarily mean you are smarter than me.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Given that the entire dialogue is effectively about the Elder Dragons’ placement in the All, ‘the Elders’ has a high chance of refering to the Elder Dragons. I can’t imagine a better short hand beyond ‘ED’.

“The dragons” would probably work better, as in GW2 so far all shown dragons were either EDs or their minions, while Elders could possible refer to the five elder races. However I agree that the context makes it pretty clear that he is refering to the EDs.

That’s true, but at the same time fire in small quantities can also be seen as peaceful. After all there are enough people who light candles for the sake of relaxing and sitting in front of a fireplace during the winter might be defining image of coziness.

Nox Lucis.8341:

Oh. I apologize for my condescending response.
Water casters can be scary, When they’re not drowning you with a globe of water around your head they’re ripping the cytoplasm out of your cells.
Seriously, why are death mages always the bad guys when you’ve got hydromancers drowning you, life mages mutating you, and mind mages rewriting your person?

No offense taken, you were just trying to educate. I guess it’s the concept of mortality that people are afraid of. And if you are afraid of it, it must be evil, or else you wouldn’t be afraid of it. It’s the fear of the unknown.
Come to think though, besides death and shadow related powers, fire is also often used as one of the powers villains command. Avatar: The Last Airbender comes to mind. It must have something to do with the depiction of Hell as fiery place. Afterall the other elements can be exactly as destrucive as fire, so that alone can’t be the reason.

I’m aware of the cultural influence of christianity in the late antiquity and early middle ages. It bothers me that Hades is still the go-to bad guy in modern interpretations of classical myths. Atleast Age of Mythology made Poseidon the villain for a change. Man I need to play that game some time again.

Nox Lucis.8341:

As it turns out, not everyone hates Hades.

It makes me so sad whenever Hades is cast as the stereotypical villain when he was in fact probably the least villainous of the Olympians. Kidnapping the woman that would later be his wife aside (which wasn’t even evil, but romantic by greek standards) he never did anything to deserve the heat. I get all worked up thinking about it again!

Officer of World Vs World Vs [GiGa] (Abaddon’s Mouth) reporting in. I will be accompanied by a member and maybe our guild leader also shows up. We’ll bring the party. :P

Kalavier.1097:

I’m in full agreeance it’d be nice to see, but using RL comparisions, you simply don’t see people talking about those events.

Oh you’d be very surprised. A few months ago I was waiting at the train station with a friend, we were on our way to the university. Suddenly an old fellow cut in the middle of our conversation, asking if we talked about football (we didn’t) and then just talked about the last few matches of the local club. So far nothing too out of the ordinary, but then in he train he sat opposite to us and started quizzing me about dutch history. (He was a dutchman, however I am german and it happened in Germany). He said that nobody ever passed his “test of knowlegde”. I was the first one to do so, because, well I’m a historian and his questions weren’t too hard if you have had courses on european history. (I’m more into antiquity myself)
I mean sure it was a completly random encounter, but still it does happen, because there are a good number of people out there who are interested in history and they like to share their interest. In fact if you ever strike up a conversation with me, it has a high chance of being about something historical. Though in the example mentioned before it wasn’t me who brought up the topic, nor did I do anything to indicate that I would be able to follow. No wonder no one ever passed that man’s test, if he just start quizzing random people about dutch history. :P

Okay since you guys keep bringin that argument, here is some stuff that happened and some people that lived 250 years ago (1765):

- The Seven Year’s War just ended recently (1763). Participants have been King George II of Britain, King Frederick II of Prussia, King Louis XV of France, Tsar Peter III of Russia and Empress Maria Theresia of the Holy Roman Empire
- As part of the Seven Year’s War, George Washington makes a name for himself as commander in the british colonies
- Both the American and French Revolution will start in the next few decades

Seem like pretty important events to me that shaped the world forever, for example establishing Britain and Prussia as great powers and setting up the age of revolutions. Now that’s not something you talk about in everyday conversation, but it’s something that is important to know, so important that I’m pretty sure it’s part of every history lesson in European and North American schools.

I think I’m repeating myself here, but I’m not saying that we should be spammed from all sites with stories about GW1’s plot. I just want the PC and the plot from the first game to be fully acknowledged. I came up with another idea how this could be done in sensible way. We know ED’s feed on magic, sometimes from magical items. So how about we uncover during HoT that Mordremoth’s minions got their hands on a powerful magical artifact called “Scepter of Orr”. During mission briefing we get told where the pact thinks it is and how powerful it is. Then optionally you can go talk to a Durmand historian. He would tell you about the Flameseeker Prophecy, Glint, the Lich, the titans and yes the PC from GW1. Why? Well it might help you on your mission if you know as much as possible about the artifact, but as I said, it’s optional. Just a nod to the veterans. Easy, not immersion breaking and totally skippable if you don’t care.

Yeah of course, as I said in previous comments, it has to be sensible. The example of random people passing family stories to you, is as mentioned just an idea. They could do it once or maybe twice as part of a quest, like for example you also return that ladies necklace and then she tells you something like this happened before (and I have to note here, I can’t think of any quest in GW1 where you return a necklace, it was just a random example). And such things could also happen in Norn territory, like I mentioned, being remembered is a big part of their culture and the PC spent quite some time in their lands.

The important part however would be documents you find in places like the Durmand Priory. Or come to think, there is Ogden, he knew the PC personally, yet all we get from him is a “you remind me of someone” at some point I think. Not sure if even does that, can’t find it on the wiki. Anyway he is the perfect character to tell us stories about the PC, as he met and tagged along with him. He shows no signs of having lost his memories in between and even if it’s 250 years later, he should be able to remember, since the PC was an outstanding character and dwarves were always long lived so they should be used to remembering stuff that was decades ago.

Kalavier.1097:

I didn’t say forgotten entirely. Just that details could be lost. snip

Details yes, they get lost, but the whole thing is forgotten. Or can you remember anywhere in GW2 where it says that titans once attacked the land and where repelled by a group of heroes? Or the whole War in Kryta? I’ve said it before, I don’t expect every other NPC to run around and tell me how awesome the PC from GW1 was, but I expect a little acknowledgement in places where its sensible.

IMO, the hero didn’t see themselves as a hero at that time(WoC). They might know for sure the causes they fought for mostly were good in the past, but Purity was the first one they got heavily involved in that showed the true colors early(ish) on.

I’m not arguing against that, in fact I agree with you. I just don’t see how we go from him doubting his current mission to thinking his whole life was a lie. That’s all I’m saying, that the statements are too ambiguous to be seen as any kind of proof that the PC wanted to be forgotten.

Translation errors are a thing, even IRL.

Yes, but that doesn’t mean anything here. It might as well be translated correctly. That’s exactly as much of a speculation as your statement. That’s like saying I lost my keys, they must have fallen into the sewer! I mean it could be, but without any evidence it just does not mean anything. Now if we go to the sewer and you find part of your key chain, then it means something.

The hero had friends, for sure. But would Beetletun notice if he died somewhere in the far shiverpeaks? Not really. He saved their town, they are thankful for that (and the ones who lived then would probably recognize him), but as time goes on, the stories would slow possibly. He saved them from destruction by undead that one time, then the White mantle happened. Also, as others have said, Kryta seems to have done an effort to hiding the White Mantle and that part of history from general, open knowledge.

Again, Devona is a fine example. She knew the hero yes… but in GW2, where are monuments or stories told of Ascalon’s Chosen? Devonas team went from Ascalon, through ALL the events of the three campaigns and EOTN. You can find a book or two wrote by Mhenlo, but hardly any other references by NPCS to those people. My point is, the hero is remembered, but the DETAILS have been lost. We don’t know their name for example, but we know what they have done.

You look at all these cases like they are isolated, but in fact they are not. That’s my point, the PC walked all over Tyria and met people, helped them, made friends. It doesn’t matter if the people of Beetletun don’t know where the hero died, it only matters that they remembered him. That problaby talked about him after he was gone, told the stories to their children, maybe someone even wrote them down. Not necessarily in Beetletun, maybe in the Durheim Archives or Kamadan.
Same goes for the allies of the PC, not everybody has to know every details of their life, but many people knew them, because they spent a lot of time traveling. The chance that atleast one person wrote in his diary “today I met Mhenlo, he is even cuter in person! <3” is pretty freaking high. That’s again my point. The PC and his allies were just too well known to be forgotten like this.
So in other words there should be a pretty high chance that you stumble onto something when you walk around in Tyria, somebody who knows his great-grandparents tale of the guy who saved Beetletun from the undead or the woman that wears that necklace that almost was lost to her family centuries ago, if not for that man that found and returned it. And even more likely than that, a scroll written by Symon the Scribe in the Durmand Priory that describes the defeat of the Lich.

Yet so far there is practically nothing. The plot of the first game might as well not have existed and it would make little difference in GW2. That’s why I was hoping we get that Abaddon fractal, when we had that Kiel vs. Evon vote. To get some connection. To give this world a part of it’s history back, that for no good reason is swept under the rug, to illogical levels. I mean why should I even get invested into GW2’s storyline if it half of the settings plot is forgotten? Does anything my PC in GW2 does even matter? Or are they going to pretend it didn’t happen once GW3 comes out?
I’m sorry if I’m ranting but this game series is dear to me, especially the first game. And I appreciate that they have giving more nods to the first game in season 2, but they are still far away from being done. And acknowledging that the PC from the first game existed and what he has done is the top priority IMO.

That the PC was part of a group of adventurers does not make it more likely that he was forgotten, in fact it makes it more likely that they are remembered. The probability of one person being forgotten is higher than the probability of 8 or mor being forgotten, especially if some of those people wrote books that are still available to the general public to this day. Others went to become headmasters/trainers at academies (Mhenlo, Dunkoro). By association alone it’s more likely that the PC is remembered as being a companion of one of those and vice versa.

And I still don’t see the WoC comment as any kind of proof that the PC wanted to be forgotten. All he expressed is that he did not want to be used like this anymore, that he would reflect more before just jumping into action. Maybe even that he would stop adventuring altogether, but I see nowhere in any sentence that he thinks that all he ever did was for the wrong reasons. And even if so, again, as I said before it usually doesn’t matter if you yourself don’t want to be remembered in a certain way or at all, as a single you person you have very little influence on how people remember you when you reached this level of prominence. It’s the Barbara Streisand effect, the more you want something to be gone from peoples memories the more likely it will stay in their memory.

On to the last point: Yes preservation methods weren’t that great in ancient times, and unfortunately the largest part of sources are just gone, destroyed by the tides of time. However this in our world, Tyria has two things going for it: 1.) The Durmand Priory, an organization founded before the rise of Orr that managed to safe quite a lot of documents from Lion’s Arch and 2.) Magic that helps preserve documents and in some cases even grants visions of the past. I would say it’s actually more likely for a historical document to survive in Tyria than in our world, despite all the cataclysmic events that befall the place every odd year.
And now we must not forget that the PC not only stopped global threats, no he spent a lot of time helping the average people, killing pests on the field, finding lost heirlooms and building snowmen for the children on winter’s day. And you are still going to tell me that not a single person would remember this guy or girl? Especially to you BrettM, I have to ask, have you even played GW1? The PC had an easy time establishing friends wherever he went. If it be for helping the people of Beetletun surviving an attack of the undead (Elder Hezron: “Your defeat of that undead horde has earned the gratitude of all of Beetletun, <Player name>. Your name will live forever in our hearts.”) or teaching a little girl how to dance (Mina: “Thank you for teaching me to dance. You’ve got smooth moves!”). The PC may have not had a place he called home, but that doesn’t mean he did not have people he called his friends. Especially his companions that he ran into again and again (Devona in EotN: “Hail, friend. I am glad to have you by my side up here. The Norn are colder than snow.”). So please don’t pretend the PC was some kind of anti-social loner who no one would have missed or remembered once he disappeard, because it simply could not be further from the truth.

Edit: I thought I just drop some more quotes about the PC
Devona in NF: “I am glad to be with you, my friend. There is no one else I would rather have at my side.”
Cynn in NF: “Good job, hero! I heard the Elders are planning a statue of you in Kamadan!”
Aidan in EotN: “I have trekked down many paths. I am glad to have had you by my side on so many of those journeys.”
Jora: “Thanks to you, I can become the bear once more. For that I am forever grateful. We will hunt together again.” (btw Jora is still remembered for slaying Svanir, but she said herself she couldn’t have done it without the PC, yet nobody remembers him? That goes contrary to the Norn’s nature of spinning legends, they would not simply ignore the PC’s contribution. That would be dishonorable)

Should I go on and pull more quotes from NPCs calling the PC a friend and someone to be remembered?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The irony of this statement is that for the entirety of GW2’s development after the first trailer’s release, humans’ ‘speciality’ compared to the other races was supposed to be historical knowledge. It was what made them still relevant compared to the sylvari’s immunity, charr’s industry, asura’s magic, and norn’s brute strength.

Yet all the history talking seems to be done by non-humans every time, even times it revolves around Orr and the human gods.

Thank you, that’s exactly what annoys me so much. Remember the first Halloween in GW2? The scavenger hunt for the Mad King’s memoirs? That was history lessons done right. And they had the opportunity to something similar during LW Season 1, when humanity celebrated itself in DR. They could have just put an NPC named “[insert name here] the Historian” there and he could have summed up the plot of Prophecies or the War in Kryta. It wouldn’t have been distracting from the living world plot and it would have been a cool nod to GW1. Other options are plaques like the Marriner and memorial plaques in LA. They could put them in places of siginificance from GW1. Though I’d prefer an NPC over a plaques.

@Kalavier: Well it seems to me there are quite a number of people who knew who killed the Lich. But even if somehow nobody ended up knowing what happened, despite two of the people there being called “historian” and “scribe”, that still does not explain why the War in Kryta is forgotten. Again a nation shaping event, and not a single person cares that it happened, if they even know it happened in the first place? Even if the new krytan government blocked out all documents of the event, they can’t erase people memories. How do you think we still know the bad emperors of the Roman Empire today? All of them went through “kitten atio memoriae”, their deletion from all monuments and historical records and yet we still have detailed records of all their lives, because someone always wrote something down or passed the stories to their kids for them to write them down.

Edit: Just to drive the point home, this is what the historian and the scribe say after the PC killed the Lich:
Orrian Historian McClain: “As a historian and a father, I thought it important that my son and I be here to witness this momentous event. Besides, Cheswick was practically rabid with excitement about seeing you again. Had I not brought him, I’m afraid he would have run off to come anyway.”
Symon the Scribe: “I have accompanied His Majesty, King Adelbern, to document this auspicious occasion in accordance with my duties as royal scribe. Care to make a statement for posterity?”

@Derom: We shouldn’t forget that the context here is WoC. The PC (from now on refered to as “he” for ease of reading) was used to commit atrocities, which caused him to start to question his decision making. That however doesn’t mean that he thought everything he did before was highly questionable too. But even if that was the case, just because you want to disappear from collective memory, doesn’t mean you can just do it. J. Robert Oppenheimer probably wasn’t too happy with his involvment of developing the atomic bomb, but he is still remembered as it’s “father”. So again, the PC was much to prominent in many important history shaping events all across the continents to be easily forgotten.

@Aaron: Humanities history records seem overall quite shabby. Still I wouldn’t call events like the culmination of the Flameseeker Prophecy, the subsequent attack on the titans (I couldn’t resist, sorry) and the fall of the White Mantle regime as stuff that is not worth mentioning in historical records. Especialy the last one is comparable to the US not mentioning the War of Independence in any of their history books (or insert any other nation shaping event). It’s that important.
Of course the problem goes deeper than just the PC not being mentioned anywhere, it’s the symptom of two underlying problems.
1.) Anet tries to tell GW2’s story from the point of view of 5 races instead of one. While I’m generally in favour of this, it makes one thing very obvious. Humans have a lot of more lore attached to them than any other race. Charr are on second but they aren’t even close. So in order for the others to catch up, human lore is often skipped over, or the focus is shifted to Ascalon/Lion’s Arch so that they can also develop the Charr/the other races while they are at it.
2.) They are afraid of going against anyone’s head canon. Right now the solve this problem by barely acknowledging the PC and his allies even existed. Again it’s not much, but if they even beginn to mention anything that happened in the first game, it’s usually something one of the NPCs did.

I really wonder if you would take a player who has never played GW1 nor has ever read anything on the wiki or in the lore forums about GW1’s plot and guide him to every piece of information you can find in GW2 about the story of the first game, would he be able without your help, to piece together what happened? The way I see it there is a huge gap, he might figure out that you start in Ascalon and you flee after the Charr attack. Then you somehow end up in Kryta but it get’s fuzzy there. Something about a guy blowing up Orr is mentioned too. And then Salma takes the throne of Kryta? Is that the plot of Prophecies?
Now of course GW2 is a new game, it doesn’t have incorporate an entire plot summary of the first campaign. But something like the Durmand Priory should have an abundance of books about the story of the first game. That’s pretty much what is there for to beginn with.

There are more nods to henchmen and heroes than to the PC. Not a lot, but we do have stuff like books written by Mhenlo and Koss, as well as graves for some of them if I remember correctly. I would appreciate them being mentioned more too.

And it’s not like the PC was Batman and hid his identity. Sure GW1 gave us hints that the PC’s identity wasn’t known by everyone, I think Miku had the line were she jokingly suggested to kill a god, not knowing that the PC actually already did that. In that case I would argue it’s due to being in Cantha while the showdown with Abaddon happened in Elona. While a few years passed between the events, I could still see that someone living more of an street rat life for years would not know any details about even a major event on another continent.
I would go so far and say let’s exclude the stuff that the PC did in Cantha and Elona. He/she was still involved in major events in Tyria. Too many to be so obscure to the public. I mean shouldn’t Krytan history books mentioned who took part in the war in Kryta? It’s not like the war was mostly forgotten, even Blimm’s relatively minor participation was still remembered in Ghosts of Ascalon (admittedly he spent the rest of his life in Kryta as a counselor to Livia, but still that’s less than the PC did).

The thing is, the way they do it right now it illogical and inconsistent with the current lore. Compared to the PC even figures like Adelbern, Salma and Gwen are absolut historical footnotes. It straight up makes no sense that they would be widely remembered while the PC would be mostly forgotten.
A real world comparison would be Alexander the Great. He conquered the largest empire of his time and to this day one of the largest that has ever existed. Nobody would have dared to think that one person can do this, in a few years to boot. And unlike many other great characters from antiquity he was not forgotten and rediscovered by scholars later on. No his memory was always present. Every roman emperor knew of Alexander, many wanted to be like him. Even after the fall of the Roman Empire people like Charlemange studied Alexander’s life. Throughout the muslim world to India and even China, all those cultures had records of the man and his deeds.
What the PC did in GW1 is very much comparable to Alexander’s conquest. So why would he be almost forgotten? Anet should decide, either the PC did not exist and his deeds were accomplished by several different groups (like the different henchman and heroes, who are more broadly acknowledged in lore anyway) or they give the PC the credit he deserves. This is not a matter of ego, like I want “my” achievements to be recognized. No it’s really about inconsistency.

A lot of people complained and complain that GW2 lore has barely any connection to GW1 lore. You’ll often here that the games are set in the same world, but that’s about the extent of common ground they have. Anet usually counters this with saying that GW1 was only about human lore and with GW2 they also have to take 4 other races into account. But I would say that is at most 50% of the reason. More importantly, all of GW1’s story revolved around the PC saving a kindom, continent or even the world. Ignoring his existence is ignoring the entire plot of all of GW1’s campaigns. Really in lore, who did kill the Lich? Who stopped the titans? Who fought Shiro in the emperor’s palace? Who helped Kormir ascent to godhood? All those things are never mentioned in GW2.
And then it comes to how do we acknowledge the PC, well it’s not to late to just give him a title now. Champion of Tyria for example. It’s broad enough to apply to characters from all campaigns and it’s still strong enough in magnitude to let the reader recognize that it refers to the PC from GW1. Or Champion of the Gods, the last HoM title, could also work. The name of the character is not used out of reverence. He is to much of a legend for his name to be defiled by speaking it when not necessary. Yeah that could be a pseudo-religious aspect. Atleast in human culture.

I wish there were more nods to the PC from GW1. It doesn’t make any sense that no one but two scholars and the ghosts in the Eye of the North would remember the person that brought down several evil factions, a lich, a rogue envoy, a dragon champion and a freaking mad god (well two if you count Dhuum too).
Sure they can’t use name or gender of the PC, but the Elder Scrolls games manage to give enough credit with the same restrictions. I remember being so stoked when I ran through Oblivion and heard people talking about the Nerevarine (the PC from Morrowind). I wish GW2 could give me the same feeling.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I have been to Germany many times. In fact, I was there just two months ago on vacation. And I cannot recall Apfelstudel with Bourbon Vanilla Sauce. That sounds simply marvelous. Thank you for sharing that information.

ahem

Back on topic: Yes, the countdown continues — I’ll be traveling in just 12 days! ~ happy dance, preferably to Brahms or Beethoven ~

Apfelstrudel is more of a southern german dish, though of course nowadays you can get it in most restaurants no matter where in the country. Though if I may suggest something, try german wine especially the white ones are really good and somewhat underappreciated.

I might use it in the future. I always shied away from editing the wiki, since when I start getting involved in stuff like that I dedicate more and more time to it. Something I frankly don’t have too much of. But quickly throwing in some stuff I noticed is missing in an article? That sounds reasonable.*

*INB4 I will spent way too much time figuring out how to improve articles on the wiki.

One simple trick to show how big Mordremoth is without having to put something next to him for scale, would be to fight on the ground. This way the player would have to look up at Mordy. The camera angle alone makes it look like you are up against something massive. I bet you if we fought Zhaitan on the ground like, for example, the Giganticus Lupicus the player reaction to him would have been different. Well in Zhaitan’s case it didn’t help that he looks rather slim and wiry.

Here is the link to the thread

The OP only states that he took the image from the wiki, but if you go there you’ll find the note “Zhaitan is approx. 506 metres long (1660 feet) and its wingspan can reach up to 570 metres (1870 feet). (measured by original model, ripped from GW2.dat)” in the trivia section.

Donari.5237:

Zhaitan was disappointingly small due to the needs of game mechanics.

Actually Zhaitan was bigger than he looked. The problem was that there was no point of reference when we fought him. Someone on reddit made this chart, showing that Zhaitan was over 500 meters long. That’s not what I would call disappointingly small.

Dark Saviour.9410:

The race trend is why I hope they go with Legendary Envoy Stance.

Yeah I was hoping they would go for Envoy Stance too. He might not have been always one, but for most of his existence he was.