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We are all just very happy that Zero is gone.
With that being said we can go back to topic again
And we are very happy that he is here in Kaineng. So our feelings are mutual. 
I’m glad RE is bringing tier 2 tactics to our humble, family oriented server. Hopefully Mag can learn to appreciate the 50 man zerg busting tactics required to succeed in the harsh land of Tyria. God Bless.
I feel sorry that 9 months into the game Mag still have to learn from an undermanned tier 3 server.
That post was dripping with sarcasm. Once again, KN is a T8 server with a single T3+ quality guild. Let’s not pretend you’re anything special.
Edit: Well, maybe two T3+ guilds. I quite like CNB.
Tier 8 population, tier 2 skills. That’s how we like it; a small force of elites owning bigger zergs every night.
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Question: How many Kaineng does it take to assault Stonemist Castle?
Answer: Hard to tell, we’re still counting the corpses.
Where is this secret hidden Kaineng zerg that you are talking about? I never saw them ever. 
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Finally got to watch that video. LOL you guys got trolled so bad by CD and SOS.
There are some useful information in this video. But I got to say though that there seems to be very little communication between your havoc team and the commander. That is a common problem with havoc teams. Many havoc teams do not like to be ruled over by a commander, so they avoid contact with the commander altogether. By being an “invisible” havoc team you are not helping out your server much. Flipping a camp, if it aren’t supported by a much bigger overall plan, have minimal effect on the war. So talk to the commander to see where he needs you.
e.g.
Correct: We are flipping this camp because the commander asked us to cut supplies into an enemy tower.
Wrong: We are flipping this camp because we felt that we should cut supplies into an enemy tower, when our commander had no plan of attacking that tower in the first place. So that camp flip did nothing.
I look forward to an eventual live steam about zerg vs zerg. ^^
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From a tier 8 player:
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA
Look at our score distribution. Now look at your tier’s score distribution. Back to ours. Now back to yours.
Sadly, it isn’t as close a match as ours. BUT, if you started fighting with everything you’ve got like we do in tier 8 instead of QQing on forums about guild transfers and timezone coverage, it could be like ours.
Walk into our Eternal Battlegrounds. SM flips every hour or so. People are able to get their map completion with the occasional keep attacks occurring every week, instead of moaning on the forums about massive imbalance. Now walk into your tier’s Eternal Battlegrounds. You just lost your keep. Now back to ours. A parade of baby quaggans is marching to every spawn point in the map while HoD guilds host a massive costume brawl party near Veloka.
Enter our borderlands. Lukian’s playing music on FC teamspeak while Saul screams like a madman about *CENSORED*ing a dolyak. Now to your server teamspeak. Someone just told you to “Shut the Kitten Up” at the slight suggestion of playing music, because WvW in high tiers is srs business, with no room for humour.
You try to launch a naked dancer roamer group near Sunnyhill, and immediately run into a massive zerg enforcing an anti-nudity law no matter what time it is. Meanwhile tier 8, the tier you wish yours could look like enjoys competitive fights and a friendly forum environment.
Anything’s possible when you’re in tier 8. You should transfer to Ferguson’s Crossing instead!
I’M ON A DOLYAK.
But we do have costume parades, naked karaoke parties and music playing 24/7 on teamspeak.
you could do a zerg stream
I am sure any guild from tier 1 to 3 would gladly volunteer their members for that zerg live steam. Top candidates for me would be SF from JQ and WM from BG. They really know what they are doing and I am sure they would greatly entertain the viewers.
You guys can also consider FOO from JQ, Rise from BG, PINK from TC, RAM from Yak’s, CO from DB and RE from Kaineng. All these guilds are pretty good too. I am sure there are other great guilds out there but I am just not familiar with them.
Thanks for that havoc team live steam btw.
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I really wish I can get more involved with this. But I am spending most of my free time to keep Kaineng in tier 3 right now.
Maybe later.
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I probably should not of commented on your utilities Chip, it derailed the thread a bit. You play what works, since I have not been in 80 v 80 zergs I would not know how bad the lag is.
Perhaps on average T3 and up players are more dedicated, however i think lower tier commanders need another skill set on top of good tactics. The lower tier players on average tend to be less dedicated so it puts that much more pressure on the commanders to keep things exciting for the PvE and very casuals following them around, a few bad fights/wipes and these players leave. I do play objectives time to time and have seen what good commanders need to do with hopping map to map and point to point so the casuals keep moving along and dont leave. Heck I’m often guilty of wandering off to take a camp or chasing kills instead of sticking with the commander take a keep.
Whos to say what takes more skill leading already dedicated WvWs on TS/Vent that play for hours on end… or leading casual players.
Lets all just have a group hug
/hug
I think there are a lot of useful informations in this thread. I think now it is clear what each tier have to offer for the players.
/hug
Not sure what happened or the original story. But if your server is turning their back on you and your guild because you said some crap on the forums. Time to look for a new server who has a bit of sense of humor. I know if I properly troll in the forums my server was give me props.
Fixed.
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Trox if anyone from tier 1 is giving you guys that “old boy’s club” and “in-group, out-group” attitude, you and anyone from Rise is more than welcome to come back to Kaineng. You know for a fact that people of Kaineng are some of the nicest and most respectful people around.
Get away from the trolls dude. Return home.
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Shads. The new Rebel.
Welcome to the jungle.
But I can actually make it to the end of a Bony post??
No-one on maguuma needs to read my post, it’s not exactly breaking news. Kain lost their Bl, then they blobbed.. Really all I did was spend some dead time at work trying to educate lesser informed people.
Oops sorry, just took kains’ garrison and keep again. Sorry!
Lack of coverage, especially in European time, can do that to you. Even fortified keep will be lost to pvdoor. It is funny that you brag about winning pvdoor.
Look at pic from 30 seconds ago. Outmanned like usual in this time zone.
Looks like we are a lock for #2 in tier 3 this week. Great job soldiers of Kaineng! I am proud.
On another note, is it me, or are all of these hacking accusations starting to smell like excuses coming from a sever that’s slowly self-destructing? Or is it bitterness that we set up a farm at Garrison every single night and farm hundreds and hundreds of badges off of Kaineng players? It’s a pity YB tunnelvisions so hard on Mag. If they didn’t, they’d easily be in second place.
All of the hacking QQ is getting pretty old. The same thing has been going on in the T2 matchup thread. Apparently either large portions of top-tier servers are going out of their way to install bannable add-ons into their game, or they are shooting their arrow cart at places the accuser didn’t know they could hit. Given the lack of video evidence so far, I think I’ll go with the latter.
I encourage everyone to just report the hacking accusation posts and move on.
Also Yak is starting to focus Kaineng a lot more. Yak is desperate for second so they always go for second place; however they are just starting to realize that this is going to be Kaineng and not Mag.
We are hanging on for dear life for that 2nd spot in tier 3. Sometimes the best fights happens when 2 desperate teams are fighting each other. Even after the exodus we keep fighting and I am proud of our boys and girls. /salute
I doubt once you get into the 30+ zerg range adding another 30 is going to change the tactics.
Anyway I hope those screen shots are not yours, because if they are you lost alot of points in my eyes. Those utility choices are…. not optimal some are ok but not for the kind of fighting you are doing. I can see spectral wall in a zerg fight on a push… but blood is power and spectral walk in a zerg fight… solo sure but not zerg.
I’m sure you are a great commander but this goes to the point of small scale fighters that look for other small scale fighters are just plain going to be better at the class they play and how it interacts with teammates and foes.
Seeing all the red bunched up there and your lack of perhaps the two best utilities in the game for those kinds of fights is a let down. I hate to sound elitist because I’m not at all…. but man why would you not have epidemic and corrupt boon when you are clearly a condition necro?
/shrug
And you lose a lot of points in my eyes for suggesting Epidemic in a 60vs60 zerg fight. The game lag and computer lag, combined with its new line of sight requirement make Epidemic useless in WvW, specially for tower defense.
You clearly have very little experience with 60vs60, and no experience with tower defense. You don’t even browse the necro forums much. If you do, you would not ever mention Epidemic for WvW.
You probably do a lot of 5v5 to 20v20 open field battles, and your opinions are based from that. It just goes to show how different the two game play type is.
So you dont use the two skill based game changer utilities a condition necro has because of lagggggg, yet you claim T1-3 is of a higher skill level…. So you are actually a skilled zerger yet the lag is stopping you from showing your skills, lag my be causing you to just faceroll marks and run around a bit not really targeting anything.
I watched 1 min of your vid I seen targets that are clearly gaurds with a million boons on them… the good player would have selected the target corrupted the boon maybe laydown a few marks then cast epidemic. If lag stops you from doing that well then how do you know if you are a good player or not if you can never do actual combos and just resort to spaming marks?
Even if you land epidemic less then half the time it would be doing a heck of alot more then spectral wall, spectral walk and blood is power. I used to post on the Necro forums alot I stopped wasting my time. WvW necros are a good choice in large scale fights and epidemic is one of those reason.
I don’t always zerg but when I do I chose Epidemic.
(wells are also a good choice but I run them mostly with power builds)
Dude, can you really pick out that “booned” guy or that “conditioned” guy in a zerg of 60 foes, while following your commander on teamspeak and sticking tight right next to him 24/7?
Did I mention that the enemy zerg are often group stealthed before the engagement, so you cannot use any single target skills against them?
I can see Epidemic working very well in a 5v5, 10v10 and 20v20. But once zergs hits 60+ it is a very different ball game. Lots of skills won’t work there, while others that sucks in small scale works really well.
As for the server lag, its gotten much better ever since we came to tier 3. The zergs are slightly smaller, both ours and our enemies, so we can use our skills instantly most of the time. My previous point on lag is about a full on 80vs80 zerg fight in tier 1 and tier 2.
Two pictures of a 80 men zerg. Will Epidemic help you here?
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Well I had a look at the video which shows a zerg own other zergs. Of course they are organized, but it also comes down to people doing what they are told. Yes that is sort of being organized. Yeah being a commander of a 60 man zerg is maybe different. What I would’ve expected after the buildup was a 60 man zerg splitting into 3 20 man zergs, and while the other zerg goes in for the kill on 1 part, the other 2 shreds them from behind. That would have been amazing. Still not enough for me to consider moving to the higher tiers though. I’m a cheap b*stard and my pc can’t handle 30vs30vs30 SM lord room battles either. You say running in organized groups (prolly not a zerg if half of what you are saying is true btw) is testing yourself… well I don’t look into that kind of competition in my freetime playing a game. 5v5, 10v10, 20v20 is enough for me, and I also have the chance to have an impact, other than being Healing spring dude #5. You think 60vs60 is as epic as it gets, I beg to defer. A guild zerg appeard under Ruins of Surmia, that had roughly 50-60 players in it. I didn’t do the counting but based on reports it consisted of 50% guardians, 25% necros, 25% eles. Sounds like something people would do in t1-3 to me, sounds organized. But fun? Hell no. I like the chaos that a lower tier can offer. I’ll stay thank you.
Also the line in the video “We should be dropping the static field, not them, we should be dropping the static field not them.” just made me smile, no offense
We do use two commanders in one zerg to split sometimes. Just not in that case. It really depends on the quality of the zerg and how many people are on teamspeak. Many new players have problems following just one commander, so having two will only add to the confusion. Its something we are working toward everyday.
I do know a guild in FA that uses 3 commanders in one zerg, which allows them to attack front, left and right at the same time. So it does happen in higher tiers. Everyone just need to know exactly which commander they are following and don’t get confused.
3-5 man teams: Some people are a little bit selfless and choose not to help their server I guess.
Lower tier fighting: can your guild leader have 20-30 people on him and out of a 45 min non stop battle (using siege, terrain, flanking, stealth, quick reaction) wipe a non stop 60 man force (T3 Yaks bend)? Which by the way was so much fun, and so many loot bags !
Can your commanders, while outnumbered, wipe away or even push back enemy zergs in T2?
Have any idea how much teamwork and organization this takes? Well not as much as lower tiers need I’ll say that much.
A “commander” leading 40-80 people who are ALL PRESSING 1 -2 SKILLS…….our 5 man uses 30-50 skills EACH in one fight….and win against 2/3/4x our number…..what is your argument for how building siege? coordinating 30 people to press 1 when hit by another zerg? spamming portal bombs and sitting on arrow carts make you hardcore at all…..like i said in previous post, “You carebears don’t even realize what hardcore pvp looks like”
Blah blah blah. If you can produce a video of your 5 man group wiping an ORGANIZED guild group of 20+ I will be impressed.
More than likely you just farm unorganized pugs lol. That is carebear PvP.
I seen them do it, seen other roaming groups do it also…. anything you can do these types of players can do better. A skilled pvper can excel and any part of the game if they chose too.
Lets bring some real world studies into this debate….Small companies have more capable individuals with a greater skill set then larger companies that do the same thing. I wont waste time explaining why that is.
I have seen T1 guilds step into Tpvp (I know its not the same as WvW) and get smashed by solo pug groups like myself. After they lost 4 or 5 (in a row?) I never seen them again. Im sure there are some great individual and small team players in T1-T3 but I will 100% tell you they did not become good by doing WvW, they had to of played a ton of Tpvp as a team.
The Lower tiers small elite groups lead to each individual player having greater skill, there is no buffer of a wall or arrow carts.
Also the commanders on lower tiers are just as good as higher, if you are on a high tier thinking you are doing some crazy tactics that no one in a lower tier has the brainpower to come up with….. you really are clueless.
So a lower tier commander is just as good at commanding a 60 man zerg as a higher tier commander? How would you know this? In lower tiers they get much less exposure to 60 men zergs, so by default they get less experience with large scale battles.
In a 5v5 fight, it is very possible that a lower tier team would win. But when it comes to 60vs60, the higher tier team would win for sure. They have more experience with it by default.
Of course all these skills can be learned eventually if he stays in high tier. But that means that commander has already become a high tier commander. He is no longer a low tier commander.
A low tier guy trash talking a high tier guy in 60vs60 is just as ignorant as a high tier guy trash talking a low tier guy in 5v5.
In fact I would challenge you commanders from lower tiers to come up and lead zergs up here for a week or two. For example go to SOR (3rd place of tier 1) and lead them to victory against BG. Lead us high tier players to victory against a superior enemy, and we will be impressed. Show us your superior commanding skills.
Sample pictures of high tier:
1) We won this battle against YB.
2) We defended our keep against Mag. They had to retreat.
Can you do better?
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Actually it was on purpose I joined their party. They did it mult. times, and they weren’t the only ones inside. They were just the ones out of 6 I was able to screenshot
And Im not judging the whole server on this group either. So please don’t think I am.
Well now we know that GOON guild and iLL guild are hackers. Obviously, look at their name.
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What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?
And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….
Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?
Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….
Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.
In that case your aim is a fight club. WvW aren’t really your thing. As such, you are not actually a target audience of this thread.
Some people enjoy seeing what they personally contribute to a fight. In a 5v5 I know exactly what I did well that allowed us to win, or what I did poorly that made us lose.
When you are running with 30 people though, how do you really tell? If you replaced one of those 30 with an uplevel, would you instantly do poorly? Would the same be true in a 5v5?
Yes, different types of fights appeal to different people. Also, your assessment that WvW is not really the thing for small scale roamers isn’t quite correct. You can enjoy the thrill of a larger map that is more oriented towards PvP rather than a smaller map that is oriented towards sitting in a circle. If you enter sPvP you are forced to actually sit in circles, whereas in WvW you are free to do whatever you want.
Hope this clears some things up.
Its just different.
In 5v5, you say things like “My water made a huge difference.” or “My Hundred Blades made a huge difference.”
In 60v60, you say things like “That stacked healing really saved our whole zerg there.” and “That guy who called out that ambush on Teamspeak really saved everyone.”
As for the 2nd point, I think WvW is about server points, holding keeps and towers, zerg fights, etc. Jscull said that he doesn’t care about server points, doesn’t care about holding keeps and towers, and doesn’t care about zerg fights. So I don’t think he is actually a WvWers. I will say he is doing a fight club inside the map of WvW. It might be fun for him and many others. But it aren’t WvW anymore.
What does server points get you? Nothing. So really what’s the point to get points. How does a server move up, population is the answer just look at the big guild looking to move thread. Ppl are worried it will screw other servers why because of the ppl they bring will move that server. Points mean nothing in this game population is what wins and makes t1 server t1. Again points get u nothing in the end. Enlighten me tho if u think they do.
Server points gets you personally nothing. Yup that’s true. There is very little personal benefits to server points.
The only reason you want server points: Server Pride.
Population and coverage is indeed a large part of the points. But it aren’t everything. Like I said both Magumma and Yak’s have way more people and better coverage than us. But we of Kaineng still fight hard every night for every single tick in the points. Why?
Server Pride!
Points are important to us because we want to stay in tier 3. We love the competition up here. We love these large scale battles. Falling to tier 4 is unthinkable for many of us.
But I understand, because you guys are running a fight club. As such you guys doesn’t really care which server you are on anyways. You guys fight to improve your personal skills. We of Kaineng fight to keep ourselves in tier 3. Huge difference in goals and objective. Hope this makes sense.
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What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?
And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….
Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?
Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….
Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.
In that case your aim is a fight club. WvW aren’t really your thing. As such, you are not actually a target audience of this thread.
Some people enjoy seeing what they personally contribute to a fight. In a 5v5 I know exactly what I did well that allowed us to win, or what I did poorly that made us lose.
When you are running with 30 people though, how do you really tell? If you replaced one of those 30 with an uplevel, would you instantly do poorly? Would the same be true in a 5v5?
Yes, different types of fights appeal to different people. Also, your assessment that WvW is not really the thing for small scale roamers isn’t quite correct. You can enjoy the thrill of a larger map that is more oriented towards PvP rather than a smaller map that is oriented towards sitting in a circle. If you enter sPvP you are forced to actually sit in circles, whereas in WvW you are free to do whatever you want.
Hope this clears some things up.
Its just different.
In 5v5, you say things like “My water made a huge difference.” or “My Hundred Blades made a huge difference.”
In 60v60, you say things like “That stacked healing really saved our whole zerg there.” and “That guy who called out that ambush on Teamspeak really saved everyone.”
As for the 2nd point, I think WvW is about server points, holding keeps and towers, zerg fights, etc. Jscull said that he doesn’t care about server points, doesn’t care about holding keeps and towers, and doesn’t care about zerg fights. So I don’t think he is actually a WvWers. I will say he is doing a fight club inside the map of WvW. It might be fun for him and many others. But it aren’t WvW anymore.
