Guild Wars 2

I just feel that the class designers for Anet has never played a necromancer in GW1. At the very least, they have no idea what makes necromancers in GW1 so fun. That’s why they have no idea how to transfer that fun in GW1 over to GW2 for necromancers.

It should be obvious to all that the GW2 necromancer has NOTHING to do with the GW1 necromancer. It is a 100% new class. The GW1 necromancer are built around 4 very strong themes: Blood Magic, Death Magic, Curses and Soul Reaping. And each traits are very thematic and fits the class. The GW2 necromancer has these IN NAME ONLY. The essences of these traits weren’t carried over from GW1 into GW2 at all. Instead GW2 necromancer is built around ONE SINGLE WORD: Attrition.

What does attrition even mean? Because every OTHER class in GW2 does attrition better than necromancer.

Hence this is the core of the problem for the GW2 necromancer. That’s why it still isn’t fixed after the game’s 5th birthday and might never be fixed. That the GW2 necromancer is build around attrition INSTEAD of the GW1 necromancer.

Yes that’s right. It should have been a REQUIREMENT for the GW2 necromancer to be designed around what made the GW1 necromancer FUN TO PLAY. But nope. It is all about attrition. That is why the class is in ruins and is still in ruins after 5 years.

A lot of people only played GW2 and never GW1. They have no idea why the GW2 necromancer is such a disappointment for us veteran GW1 players that has been there since GW1 beta. You have to understand that I took my GW1 necromancer from beta all the way to finishing Winds of Change in Hard Mode.

If Anet wants to fix the GW2 necromancer, they have to first play the necromancer in GW1. They have to FIRST understand what Blood Magic is about, Death Magic is about, Curses is about and Soul Reaping is about in GW1. And then maybe there is hope.

There are certainly very clear problems, like Death Shroud. Yes it is totally useless except for some extra HP. The problem is because Anet choose PASSIVE FACETANKING instead of ACTIVE DAMAGE CONTROL. Death Shroud is all passive facetanking. You just turn on death shroud and face tank damage. Where is the player skill in that? Instead a successful attrition class should have used active damage control. That is we can block when we want, stun enemies when we want, “Backfire” enemies when we want, etc. This is true attrition. Facetanking is not attrition. It is just an excuse to make a very-underpowered class. Death Shroud is the bane of the necromancer and should be removed completely until Anet figure out what to do with it.

But even these obvious problems aren’t even the core problem. The core problem is that the GW1 necromancer is missing. Instead this idea of attrition is ruining the class.

I will give a clear example.
Let’s say a GW2 necromancer has 200HP, 60 healing rating and 80 damage rating.
And then we have a standard class that is standard at 100 HP, 70 healing rating and 90 damage rating.

Necro has double the HP and only a bit less damage. So it looks good right? Nope!

After the first time period of fighting the necromancer will have 200-90=110 health. It is healed by 60 back up to 170. The other class will have 100-80=20 health. It heals by 70 to back to 90.

After the 2nd period the necromancer will have 170-90+60=140. Other have 90-80+70=80.

3rd Period: Necro 140-90+60=110. Other 80-80+70=70

4th Period: Necro=110-90+60=80. Other 70-80=>Dead.

Yay necro wins right? On paper yes. And that is the struggle that Anet has. On paper necro looks good. The mathematics looks good. So if necros keep lossing, it is the player’s fault.

Of course what wasn’t said was stuff like the necros keep on getting pinballed around. etc. And it is NOT due to bad player skills that the necro gets pinballed around. This is VERY IMPORTANT. It is due to necro’s total lack of actual counter to things like this.

Also keep in mind that if the match keeps on going to the 5th around, the necro would have died. So the match is actually very close. Also we have to keep in mind that I am talking about a double of health at start, 200 vs 100. Meanwhile the healing power is different by a much smaller amount, 60 vs 70. And damage is also different by a much smaller amount, 80 vs 90. But look at how close the match actually ends up being. Point here is that just doubling the health doesn’t mean all that much. At the very least, not nearly as much difference as Anet seems to think.

And of course Death Shroud isn’t actually double HP. That’s because the necro’s whole skill bar becomes DISABLED when they are in Death Shroud. So a necro actual hurts its own effciency by entering Death Shroud.

What I am getting at is that if Anet only look at the numbers and math, perhaps the necromancer looks good. But numbers and math means nothing on the actual battlefield. And certainly they mean nothing in making the class actually fun to play.

I remember in GW1 when I left Sanctum Cay into the Crystal Desert for the first time. I didn’t bother upgrading my armor and weapons and walked outside. In missions I might need players. But for exploring henchmen has served me well. What can go wrong right?

I died and I died. Over and over again. I still remember when I went outside to fight a group of Hydras for the first time and I got “spiked” by 3 Meteors+Fireballs. I was like OMG this game was so hard!

Then I see that the mobs uses the exact same skills available to the players. They didn’t cheat at all. Hydra was level 22 which was nothing, when compared to other harder foes.

And does anyone remember the very first time they tried Elona Reach in normal mode. Do you remember trying to fight Wissper Inssani without a mesmer? Back then I didn’t even know what a Mesmer does. XD

Childhood’s end. It is time for me to grow up and play with the big boys. Or die and disappear from history.

Of course I did improve and eventually I defeated even foes that are level 28+. I even finished the whole Winds of Change in hard mode. I know for a fact that I became a much better player. Because I remember how badly I used to play the game.

This is one of the reason GW1 was such a good memory for me. And I played it from beta till the start of GW2.

The further Anet move AWAY from the “dream” of turning GW2 in to an eSport, and back to making the game ACTUALLY FUN to play the better.

Honestly GW2 will never complete with DOTA or LOL as a eSport. But neither should GW2, since it is a totally different type of game.

People that wants to play DOTA or LOL will go for those. They want to level up, get gear and max skills ALL within 60 minutes. In GW2 people spent MONTHS leveling up, getting gear, etc.

And the way GW2 is set up it is not as fun as DOTA and LOL on that kind of gaming. Explaining and proving why would take a long time. But I will say one thing is that in DOTA and LOL you see your character from an overhead view. It is much easier to see the whole battle field and what is going on. In fact you can go see an area of the map that is far away from your character. GW2 is much more personal in that you see mostly what just your character sees. In DOTA and LOL you can teleport around to fight on many different fronts. In WvW you cannot teleport to your allies. In DOTA and LOL there are uses for both single target skills and AoE skills. In WvW it is all about AoE skills. So at least half of the skill available (single target) in GW2 are useless or weak in WvW, hence limiting our build choices. I am not going to list everything or prove everything. But DOTA and LOL is just more fun in that format when compared to GW2.

So why bother? GW2 need to find its own unique way. GW2 should go back to its GW1 roots. Forget eSport. It doesn’t work. It just kills the game.

SkylightMoon.2098:

Oh please. This has nothing to do with the holidays. Thats a hilarious joke. I came back to the game over a month ago and every week I’ve been surprised to see how T1 now feels like mid tier WvW 1 or 2 years ago.

WvW is hemorrhaging players. Its not a symptom of the game as a whole either. The PVE and PVP population are certainly not like they are at the launch of the game, but they are certainly stable. WvW is not.

Those of you who play in WvW and deny that Anet has neglected this gamemode as if its an unwanted child are only further harming it by not speaking up.

Seriously, no one who has consistently played WvW could actually say claim “No no, its just cuz muh holidays”. Its clearly more than that, so stop bsing about it.

Even if the population isn’t dropping (but it is!), what is hurting the game is the departure of the most hardcore and die hard players.

By hardcore and die hard I do not just mean a commander leading a zerg of 40+ around. I mean those commanders that knows the game inside and out. Those that tries to train up new commanders and teaches new players the tips and tricks.

People stay in a game when it is something they look forward to every night. But when younger players sees the older players complain about the game and leaving, what is there for the younger players to look forward to?

Brain drain hurts any company and organizations. And it certainly hurts a MMO.

Many of us has warned Anet for ages about some of these issues. But Anet didn’t pay any attention. Now honestly most of the hard core people have left. In fact people that put in the most time and effort into this game are often the VERY FIRST to leave. Why?

Let me say that WvW is actually fun. It is just VERY draining. Why? Because there is no clear victory in this WvW.

For example you take over the whole map. Did you win? Nope. 30 minutes after you log off your enemies will just PvDoor and take back everything and ruin all your upgrades that you guild paid A LOT of money for.

The victor is not who is more skilled. The victor is who can stay awake longer.

In my younger days perhaps I can log those hours. But now I (and many of us) has priorities and we honestly cannot spent that many hours all for NOTHING.

WvW need a clear victory. It need clear rewards for these victories. Not tower flipping and PvDoor.

Honestly the hard core players has posted thousands of ideas on these forums for Anet. If Anet wants they can always go back and look at the threads with the most posts. It is not our job even to tell them how to fix their game. We are here to have fun. We are here to train and win. And we expect to be rewarded and even recognized. And we expect to go to bed without having to worry about all our work and effort go to waste.

Think about it. The #1 contributing guild on a server isn’t even recognized. Even if it doesn’t mean anything, is it asking for too much to have a list that shows the top 20 guilds that donated the MOST money in WvW in the past months (and show how much they donated)? The guild that took over the most towers and fortresses in the past months? The guild that fended off the most enemy sieges in the past months? Where are the rewards and recognition?

This is one of the thousands of suggestions that we players have already given. And tbh I don’t feel this is even that difficult in implement. But it never came. And now must of the hardcore players left. And even if Anet ask for opinions and inputs now, the hardcore players won’t answer.

I can say so much more. I had been playing since the beta of GW1. So I was there when we had like 200 skills for each character to work with. And now we have like 10 skills in GW2, and everyone in WvW runs the same bar. Because there is only 1 skill bar that is effective. I know having 200 skills is hard to balance. But Anet has totally turn 180 degrees in GW2 and KILLED all creativity. It is almost like they are making a DOTA or LOL, which limit your character to 4 skills. This is one of the biggest reason that the game got boring for me. I honestly has been running the same skill bar (same 10 skills) for like the past 2 years. Buffing and nerfing skills DOESN’T fix anything. We just have 10 skills in GW2 compared to like 200 skills back in GW1.

Oh and back in GW1 the mobs (yes now I am getting into PvE) would actually try to fight the players on an even level. Mobs actually have unique skill bars that they know how to use to try to beat the players FAIR AND SQUARE. Now in GW2 we have mobs that is TOTALLY OPed stat wise but TOTALLY MINDLESS. Even the most regular mobs have like 10 times the health of the player, but they do not know how to play the game at all. The mobs just overwhelms the players by higher stats and numbers. Anet you honestly have no idea how disappointed I was, coming from GW1, when I walked into a GW2 dungeon for the first time. Honestly Anet you should have seen a problem with the game when the players feels like they are in a DIFFERENT UNIVERSE from the mobs. When the players have 20k hp, even the most regular mobs often have like 200k hp. When the players hit for 2k damage, the mobs hits for like 8k. etc

I really don’t want to rant. Been there done that. But Anet if you are reading this, I just want you to know the most brutal and honest truth. Forget the PR. Fix your game.

Anyone else thinks it would be an interest idea to create a mobile version of GW2? The Mobile version would be an independent/separate game run on Android/iPhone supporting servers.

Rewards:
By playing the Mobile version, players can get in-game (PC version) rewards. and vice versa.

Story:
The story can be a side story, focusing on characters set in the GW2 universe but not directly related. This way the main story will not be affected. Kind of like “Fear the Walking Dead”.

Gameplay:
The game play of the Mobile version will be totally different from the PC version (obviously). Once again this will be a separate game.

Right now I play two games on my phone. Both of which I really like. Perhaps the game play can be similar to these?

Deadman’s Cross by Square Enix
Legion of Heros by Nexon

Please discuss. =)

The Pact just suffered its most devastating defeat in its history. It is fair to estimate that 33-50% of our airship fleet were lost in that one battle against Mordremoth. We probably lost an equal number of manpower.

And now all they want to focus on is rebuild LA. >_>

Tyria is potentially on the edge of destruction. All our resources must now be diverted into the war effort. We have no choice but put the whole continent onto total war setting. Everyone, men, women and children, must either join the army or work to support our soldiers and war machines.

Rebuilding LA might be a good propaganda campaign. It would be like lying to the people to tell them everything is ok. Maybe if we hide it well enough they won’t even know until the elder dragon is right on top of them.

Well nothing is OK! What good is a beautiful LA if the elder dragons are going to kill everyone within a year?

LA is a war zone. Why would we rebuild a war zone before winning the war? There is no time and resource left for civil engineering and rebuilding. This is a luxury that only our grandchildren can effort, if we survive.

Else we would be like Marie Antoinette. When someone told her that the people have no bread to eat, she said “Oh really? Then let them eat cake!” Maybe we should face reality instead of living in La-La Land.

Discuss. =)

As many of you know I had been playing as a necro since GW1 beta (not kidding =) ). I used to play WvW a lot. I hasn’t really played that much nowadays. And when I do I just play with the mobs in PvE and LS.

I had been playing WvW for the past 2 days. Let’s just say things have gotten much worst for the necro. I am not going to repeat what many other players have already said a 1000 times.

I will keep this short. If you guys hate DS as much as I do, boycott DS altogether from now on. Just never use it. Never push that button. See how weak necro actually is. Fully embrace the truth about the necro.

Many of you will say that’s how necro was balanced. No that should be the last thing on your mind. You should instead be thinking:

Do I enjoy using DS? Do I enjoy being in DS? I am a paying customer. Why do I have to put up with this?

For me DS just disables my whole skill bar. It is a skill that shuts down my whole character. Who needs mesmer when I can shut myself down just fine? It was just a skill to temporary delay defeat in WvW. Meanwhile my whole party is getting healed while I am not getting any.

Instead of trying to work with DS, why don’t we just boycott DS and see how weak necro actually is right now? For example let’s say you go 1v1 someone without DS. If you only bring him down to 50% health before dying, well guess what necro is only half the man your enemy is!

Then you got to ask yourself: Do I want DS? Or do I want a total revamp of something new to replace DS?

If you truly want a necro class without the negative influence of DS, then you must cast your vote. Stop using DS. Boycott it from now on.

I would give up the whole DS (including all 5 skills) if they give us 3 seconds of blocking and using up 100% of the LF.

Before I quitted GW2 last year, I spent a lot of time analysing and talking about the Necromancer. Very little changed. I am not going to bore everyone by repeating everything I said. So let me just say:

Necromancer in GW2 is boring as **** to play. Everyone more or less uses the exact same build. Because there is zero build diversity. All non-standard builds just sucks. That’s why I quit the game.

GW1 necromancer was a thousand times more exciting to play. High risk high reward. All or nothing. Sacrifice everything. And there were so much more build diversity. I spent hours designing my skill bars.

2 of the necro elites disable their whole skill bar. Terrible. How about some elites that “works with” the rest of the skills, instead of disabling everything?

Who in the right mind created a class that have zero mobility and zero blocks? Mobility allows a player to avoid 20 attacks. Blocking for 3 seconds can arguably do the same. How much defence is needed to face tank 20 attacks?

Change DS back to the necro down state, like it should always had been.

I can go on and on. But I would be ranting just like before.

I finally got around to do this LS. I enjoyed the gameplay. That shadow dragon fight was enjoyable.

However I did not like the ending where the Pact lost a large chuck of airships. I am going to guess the Pact lost 33-50% of their total air fleet in that one battle. How can this be replaced? How many years will this take?

The Pact lost their only opportunity to take the initiative. From now on they have to play defensive.

The worst part is the Pact did literally zero damage to the enemy. This was a much worst defeat than Midway, if you get my drift.

Now if the Pact is portraited as Zergs, I won’t have a problem. We just keep attacking and attacking, trying and trying, until the dragon dies. But the Pact isn’t zerg.

Once again the Pact lost 33-50% of their total air fleet in 5 minutes. In just 5 minutes all that the Pact (the players) worked toward over the past 2.5 years has been scattered. How many years will it take to replace these losses? Can the Pact even hold back the dragons until these can be replaced?

Now I am all for huge turning points in a story. But things like these make the story unbelievable. It also makes all our progresses in the past (helping the Pact gather materials, give them time to build weapons) all pointless.

If you read LOTR, you know that the core forces of the good guys never got destroyed. They always survive somehow to fight another day.

So what should the story have been? How about Trahearne ordering the fleet to retreat, while he stays behind to fight. He got maybe 66% of the fleet out before he himself was overwhelmed in a heroic death. That way the Pact will live to fight another day. And Trahearne (which no one likes) gets removed from the story and so a new leader can replace him.

If the baby dragon is only hatching now, it might be too late for it to make any difference. I don’t know how fast a baby dragon grows, but I imagine it will be at least 10 years.

I remember in GW1 how helpless a baby dragon is.

I am hoping the dragon hatched a while ago.

zallis.2138:

The entire personal story was about you. as for living story, YOU the leader of Destiny’s Edge 2.0, and you get to do some cool things in the living story. YOU got to go into Omadd’s machine. YOU defended the pale tree from a dragon, if you are a sylvari, it is the same dragon you saw in the dream. Then the pale tree showed YOU a vision. YOU got to bring the world leaders together and lead a summit.

I am talking about character development. Personality, past history, etc.

Lead Destiny’s Edge 2.0, yet the story is all about Destiny’s Edge 2.0 other members.
Go into Omadd’s machine, yet the story is all about Omadd’s machine and its secrets.
Defending the Pale Tree, yet the story was all about the Pale Tree and her vision.

How did my main character’s personality changed from all of these events? How did my main character’s past history come into play? How did these event change my main character’s future?

My main character only exist to further the story of people around me. The story is not about my character.

Use my GW1 necromancer as example. She was limited by the useless “Order”. This eventually led to Ascalon’s destruction. The kingdom was run by a prideful king who rather make everyone fight to the death than escape alive. And then throughout her journey she was betrayed and betrayed and betrayed.

But throughout all of it she got more and more powerful. She went out to hunt legendary monsters to learn their elite skills. She spent hours mastering her skill set. She met powerful friends along the way. At the end she became quite a formidable necromancer. And as the enemies get stronger she continue to master her art, until even the most powerful foes runs in fear at the sight of her.

At the end she tries to protect Ascalon with forbidden magic. The Order, instead of helping her to fight the Charr, called her an evil witch and came against her and ruined her plan. She was killed by the very people she was trying to protect. And as she foresaw Ascalon fell.

My GW1 necromancer has personality. She has a past. She grow strong over a lot of time. There is a flow to the story. She was my very own necromancer with special skill bars.

I am not nearly as attached to my GW2 necromancer.

Anet, former WvWers who left will not be back into WvW by increasing its costs….

Bump bump bump. ^^

Anyone else wants butterfly and dragonfly backpieces? I think they will look great.

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs5/i/2005/013/3/c/Butterfly_Fairy_by_kiwikitty37.jpg

http://cdn.desktopwallpapers4.me/wallpapers/fantasy/1280x800/1/2813-dragonfly-fairy-1280x800-fantasy-wallpaper.jpg

http://cache.desktopnexus.com/thumbnails/1378311-bigthumbnail.jpg

http://www.oroskopos.tv/contentfiles/themata/gynaika-gamos/batutufai.jpg

http://www.pageresource.com/wallpapers/wallpaper/butterfly-anime-girls-fairy_185085.jpg

http://f3.mb-content.com/pictures/288/04/0/1004288_YUEEPTKCBTAXRUK.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0-Gmuh-iBmzxiQOeWblZOoXG6YjNrr433Ef5br9L-ycnQTWbJ

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/Fantasyfairy_album/fairies/purplefairybutterfly2.gif

Kalavier.1097:

And that explains why 70 years ago (Sea of Sorrows) Livia was openly being Livia, using necromancer powers, and not showing a SLIGHT sign of Mesmer magic?

Or why she’d magically decide to completely disguise herself, stop using necromancer magic ENTIRELY, and fully use mesmer abilities?

Even when the Queen’s life is in EXPLICIT danger her necromancer powers have been shown to be able to easily safeguard her?

That her disguise/keeping herself hidden from the public ans Livia is more important then the Queen’s life, even though Jennah could’ve easily made all present swear to silence about it.

I could buy the theories if the questions above had rational answers, or ANY answers.

I’ve seen none provided from those supporting the theories.

Because Livia isn’t really bounded right now. No lore was broken because no one know who she really is.

She can be a portal/black hole mage for all we know.

Example:

Shiren.9532:

I like that more than the Livia plot (Livia becoming a mesmer doesn’t feel right to me, obviously someone who lived for 250+ years had time to learn a second profession though). Still, Salma was a monk, not a mesmer. Again, 250 years is enough time to learn to dual class, but how did she live so long? We know why Livia lived long beyond normal human years, it’s a bit of a stretch to also have Salma do the same.

Doesn’t this idea also rely on no-one ever looking at the locket, or anyone who does being sworn to total secrecy (or worse)? For as long as the locket has existed no-one has ever taken a peak at it? I don’t buy that.

For all we know this was just a tongue in cheek line to make fun of people thinking Anise was anything but a natural beauty.

Livia was simply the only one we know who lived for 300+ years. She might not have worked alone. There might be a clan of powerful ancient mages out there, working behind to scenes to protect humanity. The original Master of Whispers might not even be dead. Riel Darkwater say she is the new Master of Whispers. But is she really? Heck “Darkwater” is almost certainly not her real last name.

Was Livia even human? Or was that another illusion? Was she really a necromancer? Or she was pretending to be one?

The story writers can go anywhere about this part of it right now.

Ok guys time to use your imagination. We have here this woman who is sad and angry due to the death of her sister. She is a necromancer. What is the most insane thing she will be doing?

Here is my idea: Learn to summon a gate to the Underworld.

Marjory now realize that she cannot protect everyone, and everyone dies eventually. In effect it is pointless to protect the people from the Elder Dragons in the real world, since everyone eventually ends up in the Underworld.

Instead she shifted her focus to providing easy access for people to see their loved ones in the Underworld. This way the living can easily meet the dead as if no death occurred.

Unfortunate the Underworld was filled with demons. The souls are not easily reachable. So her plan appeared fruitless. And she work toward setting up a “Utopia” in the Underworld for the dead souls.

One of the Elder Dragons pushes harder and harder against the people. Eventually the Pact was on the blink of destruction. Then Marjory he got this “bright” idea to release demons from the Underworld against the dragon minions. So she summoned the biggest portal she ever created, and out pour a steam of demonic creatures. Shadows, Titans and other horrors. These creatures attacked both the people and dragon minions alike, but . But eventually the tide turned and the dragon minions had to retreat.

And then just as Marjory was about to close the portal, Dhuum stepped out from it. Oh sh**

Anyone else notice that the story is about anyone but your character? There are stories about:

Marjory and Kasmeer
Rox and Rytlock
Braham and Taimi

All these characters have growth. But there was absolutely zero story about your own character. I believe it is time to have some personal growth in our characters. These story can be around your own race, profession, Order or personality type (e.g. Scoundrel).

For example I have a necromancer. Perhaps there should be a quest for her to locate the body of a long dead dragon minion, and reanimate it as my minion with a new elite skill.

She is also a Norn. Perhaps there should be a quest for her to go search for some long lost animal god, for a new transformation or summoning skill.

One anime I enjoy watching is Naruto. He start off as a nobody. In fact initially he would appear as the class drop out, good for nothing. But he would get stronger and stronger, and overcame different challenges. Along the way he would face enemies well outside of his league. But in the right time he would get the help he needed (either though training or a very strong ally).

One thing I enjoy about Naruto is how “balanced” that world is. It isn’t even a game, but the world is so balanced. There is a counter against every jutsu. No one is invincible, even if they appear that way initially. The key to winning a fight is discovering the enemy’s weaknesses and exploit them.

Conclusion: I believe the story need to be more about your main character. It should be about how you grow to become that hero you are bounded to become. Along the way the universe should feel balanced enough to make it believable.

I am not against “side stories” like Taimi. But I should be the main character, not her. There need to be a balance in this also.

Ok let me get this straight.

The nations are going to gather some of their most important leaders for a summit, right at the Pale Tree who was a dragon champion of Mordremoth. She has a high chance of getting corrupted by Mordremoth (Hello? Any brains home???). At the same time the Nightmare Court just happens to be the only faction that we didn’t have to “weaken” during Ep3, so they will have their full strength to infiltrate and attack the summit.

If it smells like Idiot Ball…………

The only good thing is that Trahearne will most likely be killed during the summit. So finally the Pact will be lead by someone with half a brain. Which I had hoped and hoped to be Rytlock (LOL right?).

And then, big LOL at the 6 pieces of the Ascalonian crown. We don’t have to go into some epic dungeon to find them. No, they were just misplaced all over the place because it was view as non-important by the soldiers.

Then Rytlock jumped after the sword? WTF? Dude you are in command of thousands of Charrs. Their lives all depends on you. And quite frankly, you were the only commander in this whole story who has half a brain. Every other good guy have the idiot ball. You were the only guy in this whole story who I would entrust the Pact to, and now you are gone.

Only Livia can save us now.

The build diversity in GW1 is much bigger. Here are just a few builds I made.

I look forward to this.

Treh’s wild hunt is over. He has no part in the future storyline. So yes he will probably be killed off. XD

Kalavier.1097:

A: Love.
B: As I recall, he agreed to become Jennah’s champion, and have a magical spell that’d compell/tell him when she is in danger.
C: If he didn’t save Jennah, then we may have never killed Zhaitan.

To clarify, I didn’t find Logan unbelievable here. I understand why he did it. But I do not agree with it. And no he doesn’t deserve any respect from me for what he did.

Understanding is not agreeing.

Logan falls into the second category for me: Unlikable.

And then we can look at how Queen Jennah is treating Logan right now. He risk world/global destruction for Jennah, one woman. And yet it appears she couldn’t care less if he dies tomorrow (not true obviously, but you get what I mean).

1) Love
Queen is sacrificing their relationship for the welfare of the human kingdom. This is the RIGHT thing to do, imo.

Logan is sacrificing the whole world for Jennah, one woman. This is the WRONG thing to do, imo.

See the different? See why I find Logan unlikable? Once again this is my opinion. I am sure many find Logan extremely romantic here. But I don’t.

It would have been fine if the game gave us players a choice to “hate” logan and trash talk him. But we wasn’t given that option. Our character MUST LOVE Logan, by lore.

B) Promises

Yes she can ask for help all she want. But should Logan really sacrifice the world for one woman?

C) We wouldn’t know because our story/timeline never went that direction.

Most characters in GW2 are either Unbelievable, or Un-likeable.

Take Logan for example. He GAVE UP a chance to kill an Elder Dragon for a woman?

Ok fine. He is a fool. Fools are everywhere. And he was blind by love. Fine, as long as no harm no foul to us the players.

But we players are FORCED to like him.

Seriously?

Yes, because a new human character have NO CHOICE but to like Logan. The story DEMANDS it. This is a problem, because:

“Logan, I have nothing to say to the likes of you. You might be a very strong warrior. But you choose to sacrifice the whole world for a woman. I want nothing to do with you. Leave me be.”

Why? Because anyone can say the same thing.

“Oh, I would sacrifice the whole world for my wife!”
“Oh, I would sacrifice the whole world for my own life!”
“Oh, I would sacrifice the whole world for my wealth!”

If everyone thinks this way, there would be no heroes.

Now it would have been fine if we players were given a choice to hate/disrespect Logan. But we weren’t given this option.

Sacrifice 33% LF to reduce the recharge of all recharging skills by 33%.

Sacrifice 50% LF to summon a Wraith from the Underworld to help you in battle for 10 seconds.

Sacrifice 50% LF to summon a Wall of Bones, which blocks attacks and projectile spells for 3 seconds in the target area of 180 radius.

Devata.6589:

CHIPS.6018:

Retsuko.2035:

JoeytheHutt.1742:

I dont understand why ppl have a problem with goodbye posts. I understand why Anet dont want them, but other players?

Because 99% of the goodbye posts are simply QQ posts (just like this thread), where OP is crying over what he/she didn’t like about the game. So instead of just moving on, he or she has to keep on posting and giving their reasons for why this game supposedly sucks.

Nobody cares if you dislike the game. If you can’t let go, it just proves you’ve been highly addicted.

Their reasons for not liking the game are often not even valid. Take for example the OP’s reason for the role a class play’s (The OP’s essay on multiplayer play). From half reading his/her post, it seems that queensdale champ train or Orr train, some casual dungeon and living story content was the most this OP has ever done.
Go into WvW and experience real combat at first hand and you’ll learn how important certain class roles are in real PvP based battles.

Only yourself can make the game as boring or as interesting and exciting as possible.

I was hardcore WvW on high tier servers. I was a commander that lead though TeamSpeak. But I eventually I got burnt out/bored. As fun as it was when I started, it eventually become the same thing over and over again.

Stack, Fire+blast, fight, stack, water+blast, portal bomb, fight, stack, fire+blast, etc

I am not saying WvW is not fun. But after doing “too much” of it, I realize it is indeed the same thing over and over again. The skill ceiling, even for WvW, is very low.

If the WvW skill ceiling is high there should be multiple type of zerg. Each zerg type would fulfill totally different roles in battle.

LOLWUT?

Yes it is true. If you look at RTSs like Rome: Total War, you see the players use a combination of different type of units. Each unit type has its strength and weakness. And each unit are to operate separately. They only come together if it is beneficial.

Instead, we only see in one kind of zerg in WvW. There are elementalist fields and mesmer portals. But there is only one kind of zerg. There is only one kind of zerg design. And in them there are elementalists and mesmers doing their thing.

There is no army formation possible. And after running this only ONE kind of zerg every day, using very similar tactics (after a while you would have seen everything), WvW gets boring.

That has a lot to do with the lack of roles in this game. No not saying we need the holy trinity I say we need roles and that can be more then just tank, healer and dps.

In addition there should be room for more tactics in GW2. Other ways to get inside a keep (colour your own dolyak in another colour and hide inside it, player collision detection to create a human stair and more of that sort of things) lastly it would be good to have a more sandbox map where guilds build there own castles and fight / defend that. Possible even with guild-member housing inside there borders. Then there would be a reason to fight and defend in stead of only just flipping flags and moving on.

The diversity of the roles is indeed very minimal. Other than elementalist fields and mesmer portal, there is literally no other must haves “roles” for your WvW zerg.

Without any elementalist? OMG! So our whole zerg can’t gain might? Our whole zerg can’t heal?

Without any mesmer? OMG! No portal bombs?

If you have a guardian in your zerg of 60, you can replace him with a necromancer and the difference would be minimal. Or a warrior. Or an engineer.

Rangers used to have the unique role of “Siege protector” But that skill got nerfed and now rangers are just another no-body (join the crowd).

At the same time, we have the thief class that cannot fight with the zerg at all.

And lack of body blocking doesn’t help at all. This ensures no army formation is possible.

I am not a game designer. I can only judge a game as a player. And I just feel that the current GW2 combat system is VERY DULL. That is true for 1v1, 5v5, 30v30, 60v60. The skill ceiling is just so low across all levels.

We can also see how poorly the AI is. Mobs have like 20 times your health (LOLWUT?) and 5 times your damage (LOLWUT?), and they still can’t beat you 1v1.

Retsuko.2035:

JoeytheHutt.1742:

I dont understand why ppl have a problem with goodbye posts. I understand why Anet dont want them, but other players?

Because 99% of the goodbye posts are simply QQ posts (just like this thread), where OP is crying over what he/she didn’t like about the game. So instead of just moving on, he or she has to keep on posting and giving their reasons for why this game supposedly sucks.

Nobody cares if you dislike the game. If you can’t let go, it just proves you’ve been highly addicted.

Their reasons for not liking the game are often not even valid. Take for example the OP’s reason for the role a class play’s (The OP’s essay on multiplayer play). From half reading his/her post, it seems that queensdale champ train or Orr train, some casual dungeon and living story content was the most this OP has ever done.
Go into WvW and experience real combat at first hand and you’ll learn how important certain class roles are in real PvP based battles.

Only yourself can make the game as boring or as interesting and exciting as possible.

I was hardcore WvW on high tier servers. I was a commander that lead though TeamSpeak. But I eventually I got burnt out/bored. As fun as it was when I started, it eventually become the same thing over and over again.

Stack, Fire+blast, fight, stack, water+blast, portal bomb, fight, stack, fire+blast, etc

I am not saying WvW is not fun. But after doing “too much” of it, I realize it is indeed the same thing over and over again. The skill ceiling, even for WvW, is very low.

If the WvW skill ceiling is high there should be multiple type of zerg. Each zerg type would fulfill totally different roles in battle.

LOLWUT?

Yes it is true. If you look at RTSs like Rome: Total War, you see the players use a combination of different type of units. Each unit type has its strength and weakness. And each unit are to operate separately. They only come together if it is beneficial.

Instead, we only see in one kind of zerg in WvW. There are elementalist fields and mesmer portals. But there is only one kind of zerg. There is only one kind of zerg design. And in them there are elementalists and mesmers doing their thing.

There is no army formation possible. And after running this only ONE kind of zerg every day, using very similar tactics (after a while you would have seen everything), WvW gets boring.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Nerelith.7360:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Drakent.9605:

I also agree with the OP,

GW2 feels more like a facebook video game version, is all about collecting dyed and customs and then show them off . GW2 should be call the other facebook, is just a social game.

The question is then, what should it be? I mean, why do we play MMOs? To play with other people. Why do we collect loot? To show them on our characters.

Doesn’t that make every MMO ‘just a social game’?

Not quite. See when I play World of Warcraft it is to level up My character, see what skills she developes. See How those skills Interact with Mobs, so that I can improve my skill… I am playing 3 Monks. Yes 3. there is a reason that if you Know World of warcraft you don’t really need explained, if you don’t or haven’t played well..no need to explain.

In gw2. By level 25 or 30 I have seen all the skills. Mostly after that it’s all refinement. Applying the right traits with the right polishing of already seen and experienced skills.

“ok so Now aftert I use skill A, I get 5 seconds of vigor…. umm… " Yes, I am sure that those 5 seconds of vigor will be useful…but it’s NOT the same thing as Playing to level 85, and seeing an entirely new skill you’ve never seen before.

I think what makes this game more a 3d facebook is…after you have seen ALL the skills… you can Mostly spend your time chatting.." so…How was that Birthday party? " * Kill Troll*.." was good I got a new Blender.." * Kill Oak*… bla bl bla… * Kill bacon*…

The way I think of it…. World of Warcraft and the games that came before it, Including the Original Guild Wars…were games… and you socialized In them as a secondary thing..the primary thing was…exploring the game..and it’s skills.

for me Guild wars 2… feels Like… an excuse to get together with friends you make in the game… the Game itself is beginning, at least for me… to feel Like…something attached to a 3d social engine.

Not sure if I made sense….

When I Played EverQuest… a friend of Mine asked me that played with me." How would you discribe World of Warcraft?" I said " hmmm… as EverQuest Lite… with pretty colors."

I Guess I would describe gw2 is…" World of warcraft lite… with a More casual social, hey let’s all hang out while we kill karkas" feel."

Playing the game is beginning to feel like an afterthought.

To me, the socialising is the primary thing in MMOs, because frankly, gameplay is normally subpar to that of console games.

I havn’t played enough of WoW to understand what you mean, but even at 80, I’m still thinking of new builds. I do agree that the theory crafting is not very deep in here, its all just DPS stacking in PvE, and it’s quite awkward to do without a DPS meter however.

But to the average player, I’m not really sure it actually matters. For example, if you ask around in why people camp GS on warriors now, most people will just basically go ‘because Nike said so’. The average player doesn’t theory craft, because frankly, it takes hours to do on a spreadsheet and that’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

In pure action games, yes consoles are superior. But for many other types of games, like RTS, a computer is the only way to go.

So it all depends on what type of game, and how they are implemented.

SirQuester.5476:

Everyone seems to be missing the underlying reason behind this post and other well thought out complaint posts.

People don’t want to quit playing GW2.

They post in hopes of changing the games direction/adding what would make the game have more value for their time.

Now, at the end of the day, it’s still just a game – but is what you’re doing in GW2 today, worth you coming back tomorrow to play again?

Good observation. ^^

Vayne.8563:

CHIPS.6018:

Vayne.8563:

Yoh.8469:

I figured it was high time I took the time to explain why I am no longer playing GW2, and I seriously don’t expect that I will be back anytime soon.
It’s the responsible thing to do I think, since most players that leave simple go silent without saying anything. So take this for what little it’s worth.

The responsible thing to do is to not break forum rules, which you’re doing by making a leaving post.

1. The only people who care why you’re leaving are people who already agree with you, some of which have left. Many of us like the game pretty much the way it is. Not that it doesn’t have room for improvement, but my guild, at least, is hopping and everyone seems quite happy with the game.

2. Most players simply go silent. That’s true. This is people who like the game and people who hate the game. Making the assumption that most of the silent people agree with or would support your points is an erroneous assumption. Some people will and some people won’t, just like the people who answer this thread.

Use of the word responsible means that you see what you believe to be true as objectively right, when it’s high subjective. Even in this thread, many people disagree with what you’ve said.

If you don’t like a game, leave the game. Making a post like this is not only against the rules, but it’s completely 100% pointless. Unless you’re saying something totally unique that no one has complained about before, which isn’t the case.

The problem is you guys never saw how GREAT GW2 could have been. Many of us GW1 players did. We saw a vision of it. But it never came to pass. That’s why it is so sad for some of us.

I played Guild Wars 1 and I daresay I probably have more hours playing it than you do. But not everyone thinks that just because content is hard and challenging that a game is good or better. People play different games for different reasons. Life is challenging enough where I don’t need a game to prove my mettle.

I have over 15,000 hours in Guild Wars 1. I have 37 characters and every single one of them has finished both Factions and EotN. I’ve beaten every dungeon in the game in hard mode, except the elite areas (I did some of them), but I didn’t enjoy it. It wasn’t fun for me. It didn’t make the game better.

And there were tons of things lacking in Guild Wars 1 that I find better in Guild Wars 2 (like the lack of pathing, the non-linear nature of the game, and the ability to jump).

Don’t talk for all Guild Wars 1 players. Even Anet said most Guild Wars 1 players never finished the hard content. It’s not why most people play multiplayer games.

Yes it is true that I couldn’t speak for the whole GW1 crowd. It is also true that harder content doesn’t mean fun-er content. In fact, I don’t necessary disagree with the casual friendly design theory.

However I do think in terms of game play, skills and skill bar design, GW2 went over the line.

We have heard many players saying “auto attack 1 and win”. Now I don’t believe that literally. Of course it isn’t that simple. Neither do I actually think GW2 is like Mario, who just jump, jump and jump. But I can relate to the message behind that.

I think it is important for Anet to find the balance somewhere in the middle. I understand that they want to make GW2 more casual friendly. However casual friendly games can still be made to have a decently high skill-ceiling.

Without a high skill-ceiling, many players will reach that skill-ceiling very rapidly. And once they get there, they will not linger unless there is a constant supply of new contents.

With a decently high skill-ceiling, players will stay to improve themselves.

Self-improvement and self-realization is very important in keeping the players playing

Stars.2179:

I could name:

At least 10 negative opinions the OP has about the game without any explanation nor anyway to improve it.
At least 4 untrue statements the OP claimed about the game
At least 1 logical fallacy in all that to seemingly support his view

This thread contributes nothing to the community. Please close it.

Anet, you know which group truly loves the GW series more. I hope you pick the correct guys to listen to. ^^

Vayne.8563:

Yoh.8469:

I figured it was high time I took the time to explain why I am no longer playing GW2, and I seriously don’t expect that I will be back anytime soon.
It’s the responsible thing to do I think, since most players that leave simple go silent without saying anything. So take this for what little it’s worth.

The responsible thing to do is to not break forum rules, which you’re doing by making a leaving post.

1. The only people who care why you’re leaving are people who already agree with you, some of which have left. Many of us like the game pretty much the way it is. Not that it doesn’t have room for improvement, but my guild, at least, is hopping and everyone seems quite happy with the game.

2. Most players simply go silent. That’s true. This is people who like the game and people who hate the game. Making the assumption that most of the silent people agree with or would support your points is an erroneous assumption. Some people will and some people won’t, just like the people who answer this thread.

Use of the word responsible means that you see what you believe to be true as objectively right, when it’s high subjective. Even in this thread, many people disagree with what you’ve said.

If you don’t like a game, leave the game. Making a post like this is not only against the rules, but it’s completely 100% pointless. Unless you’re saying something totally unique that no one has complained about before, which isn’t the case.

The problem is you guys never saw how GREAT GW2 could have been. Many of us GW1 players did. We saw a vision of it. But it never came to pass. That’s why it is so sad for some of us.

Stars.2179:

vana.5467:

Completely agree. Combat is just flat-out uninteresting.
In my opinion, making all skills usable while moving was a massive mistake (smooth as it may make the gameplay feel). All risk is removed from skill-usage – movement and positioning goes out the window, and spam ensues as it’s always in your best interest to use any skill. Couple that with the self-sufficiency of classes and a complete lack of any meaningful interaction with your team and you’re pretty much left with a bland single player experience in a multiplayer world.

I completely agree. Combat is so boring that you can stand at the foot of Tequalt and press 1. Positioning and movement are absolutely unnecessary in this fight. Just stood there and press 1 and eventually it will fall dead.

Same go for the Triple Head Wurm. Everyone just come and stacks at each of the wurms and attack. No coordination neccessary.

No interaction with other people necessary for the current famous Crown Pavilion either. Everyone just wear berserker gears. Stack up at each boss and press one. You have 8 minutes. With 50 people, it takes about 1 mins a boss. You go around in a clockwise or counterclockwise. Zerg all the way. You can do it in 6 minutes (out of 8 minutes) for the gold reward. Easy. No coordination needed. No teamwork.

Ever tried Domain of Anguish in hard mode? Ever tried Winds of Change in hard mode?

Hint: Teq and the Wurm is a walk in the park, compared to DoA and WoC hard mode.

Teq especially is a LOL. He only wins because of the timer. Teq has never wipe out the whole human zerg. Teq isn’t strong. The timer is.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Aegis.9724:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

I read your complaint that they havent “added” to professions and stopped reading. One of the chief problems with GW1 was that they continually added skills, it was a balancing nightmare and they were doing MASSIVE balance patches 5 years into the game. They aren’t going wild with additions to professions because their focus is on getting them into a good place where they don’t have huge problems.

Also, bye bye to your thread – there’s no way a mod isn’t going to lock/delete this.

TBH, while that was alot of work for the devs and balance team, it was also the main reason that made me, and probably 80% of my guild stick to gw1 pvp for 5 years.

Every time new skills were added, or nerfed/buffed the whole meta shifted, cookie-cutter builds fell out of favor and new builds started to shine. Sure, there were moments of total imbalance, but those didnt last too long due to how dynamic and frequent the balancing was.

I still remember how after each patch it was like a gold rush, everyone in my guild gathering in TS to discuss how the meta would change in each of the pvp modes, and what we could do to stay one step ahead. Creativity and theorycrafting were king.

While i don’t hate gw2 skill system, i do feel it sacrificed alot of that excitement just to be more accessibile and easy to manage, for both players and devs.
The result is a more stable but stale and grey meta, where most classes have the same couple viable builds (that everyone runs) for a MUCH longer time.

For me, I think it actually might be easier to balance a game with a butt-load of skills. I havn’t played GW1 enough to know how that went but I’ve played TSW inside out, and in terms of how skill-setting works, those two seem to be in the same ball-park.

TSW was a flop, Funcom has a very small crew working on it and balance updates come once a year at best. Yet TSW’s PvP is extremely balanced and diverse and unless you’re a dungeon DPS, PvE has a lot of top-tier builds as well.

The reason behind it is that in a ‘chaotic’ and open system, there’s a lot more different possible combinations of set-ups so:

1. It’s harder to determine what are the best builds and you only need to change something slightly to trigger a domino effect and keep players guessing again.

2. There’s simply a lot more builds possible, so there are a lot of ‘overpowered’ metabuilds competing with each other instead of a few dominating everything.

3. The players have a lot more tools at their disposal to counter each and every build. With a limited and restricted system like ours, there’s a lot of builds that are simply very overpowered because there’s very little or sometimes nothing you can do to counter it.

In other words, in a very complex system, its players who set the metabuilds, not the developers, you simply need to give them the tools to do it instead of do all the work yourself.

GW1 was impossible to balance. The reason being you could have two professions and sometimes the synergies between skills was unintended and made it hard to fix right. Some of the skills were so useless that they never were used, Keystone Signet anyone?

It is better to have an unbalanced but fun gameplay than a balanced but non-fun gameplay.

And TBH, GW1’s balance was rarely totally out of wrack. There are usually a few OP builds going at it at the same time. Since they are each OPed in their own way, the game actually kept itself in check.

In Itachi’s word: Every Jutsu has a weakness.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Sirendor.1394:

Thanks OP for writing this out. While some people (read: fanboys) prefer trolling and calling out hate messages, I will not do so. Most of what you say is true.

Actually, the real troll is likely this thread. I mean, honestly, who would really care when someone’s quitting the game? Aside from people that the person may call “friend,” and would have spoken with ingame or via guild, I really cant think of anyone. Making this sort of thread just comes off as the player being self-important about themselves, always has regardless of whatever game it is. Most of the time such people dont even leave the game entirely, and instead choose to creep the forums bashing anything and everyone like an addict being deprived of a fix.

So here’s to the OP actually leaving the game entirely: bye.

I had been playing GW1 since GW1 beta. If I ever decided to perma-quit, I will make a thread. I think playing the GW series for like 9 years give me permission to tell the world why I decided to leave. :P

Dice Dragon.4326:

Your multiplayer experience is wrong. in dungeons you DO need to work togther and think about more then personal dps. Look at the flavor of the month dungeon ranger build, it generally brings redmoa/spotter/frost spirit to work together with other popular meta builds, it brings aoe buffs that are important to improving party dps and scale exponentially the more people you have.

I play an engi, and nothing is more satisfing then blasting 18 might stacks onto my party for 30 seconds and watching bosses melt. I think the multiplayer is AMAZING, you just are prolly zerging over world content which is as you said, mindless and not really meaningful, get in a dungeon and its a diffrent world where you need diffrent ideas and gameplay to win.

The problem isn’t GW2 have ZERO team work. We are not saying that. Of course GW2 have teamwork. I played though dungeons (including Arah) and tons of WvW. I know about fields+blast finisher. In fact back when I was a commander in WvW I made those calls on TeamSpeak. So yes I am (and many others are) fully aware that there is teamwork in GW2.

Here is the problem: People like me reached GW2’s skill ceiling way too fast.

That includes both solo skill ceiling and team play skill ceiling.

I tell you the truth. Even if I play my GW2 necro for 5 more years, I will not get much better with using her. Her skill bar won’t improve that much. Neither will her skill bar become unique.

Its like playing Mario. Let’s say this Mario game gives you LS updates. Well you might die when you enter a brand new stage. But as you play you will get more familiar with the new stages and eventually finish them.

But listen to this please: You got better by being more familiar with the new stages. You did not become better at using Mario.

Ok?

Mario is VERY easy to use. He pretty much only have ONE move. He just jumps. And jumps. And jumps. Using Mario isn’t the problem here.

GW2 characters are, of course, more complicated to use than Mario. But if you ask me, it is along the same line.

Team work, what we see today is what we get. Field+blast. Field+blast. Field+blast. The only thing hard about that is the lag and getting everyone on TeamSpeak, tbh.

I guess the thing is I play many other type of games beside GW2. I play RTS, which gives me some skill on multi-tasking. I play tons of action games and shooters, so my reflex is decent. And so things in GW2 just aren’t that hard, tbh.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

I read your complaint that they havent “added” to professions and stopped reading. One of the chief problems with GW1 was that they continually added skills, it was a balancing nightmare and they were doing MASSIVE balance patches 5 years into the game. They aren’t going wild with additions to professions because their focus is on getting them into a good place where they don’t have huge problems.

Also, bye bye to your thread – there’s no way a mod isn’t going to lock/delete this.

You are right about the “easy to balance” part for the skills and skill bars. The problem is Anet really overdid it. Like REALLY overdid it. They killed nearly all creativity that existed in GW1.

In GW1, my guild will share crazy and unique builds with each other. We would try them and get some good laughs out of them. Of course these unique builds are probably not the most efficient. But they were FUN and FUNNY to try. And when the game was FUN, nothing else really mattered.

If simple is the aim and goal, Anet might as well make GW2 as simple as Dragon’s Crown (side-scroller beat-them up RPG). Let’s just make the whole GW2 an action, reflex game.

When the skill bar design is so shallow, there is no need for balance.

I hasn’t log into the game ever since the LS of killing Scarlet. I will be back in the next LS that drives the story.

It has become clear to me that the story is the solo reason I play GW2 now. I just want to see where the GW universe, which I loved so much for 7 years from GW1, will head toward to story wise.

The GW2 gameplay does not interest me anymore.

There are many reasons. And yes game imbalance is one of them. But that isn’t the main driving force. The main reason is because GW2’s gameplay is boring and its skill ceiling is too low.

I could write paragraphs after paragraphs explaining what I was talking about. But instead I will repost what I wrote on the necro forum.

Because in GW1 I used to have the option to sacrifice 33% of my maximum health.
Because in GW1 I used to be able to keep my WHOLE PARTY nearly immune to conditions.
Because in GW1 I could shut down people like mad.
Because in GW1 I had epic skills like Grenth’s Balance and Dark Aura.
Because in GW1 using minions was actually an ART.
Because in GW1 I could combo Animate Bone Horror+Death Nova+Ancestors’ Rage+Putrid Flesh
Because in GW1 I could combo Malign Intervention+Putrid Bile on masterless minion+Holy Spear on masterless minion.

I am not trying to show off. But sorry pardon me that I feel the GW2 necro are boring as ****. The profession’s skill ceiling is way too low, and there is little room for improvement or creativity. Let’s be honest. Nearly every necromancer uses the same 2 or 3 builds.

Go run GW1 right now, and try Malign Intervention+Putrid Bile on masterless minion+Holy Spear on masterless minion. First find out what it actually does (do you even understand what I am trying to do here?) Then practice it in PvE. Finally practice it until your team can use it with you in Alliance Battle over TeamSpeak.

Then tell me with a straight face that minion master is boring.

Minion master “basic” is, of course, boring. But if you want to be a “S-Rank” minion master, and it takes a lot of work and practise. The same thing goes for other “S-Rank” combos in GW1.

In GW2, it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to be a “S-Rank” minion master. The skill ceiling is very low.

Keep in mind that in GW1 I not only tried many “S-Rank” combos for necros. I also tried many “S-rank” combos for other professions. That’s how the game kept my and my guild’s interest for 7 years.

GW1 I could train and design my character so she becomes a S-Rank unique “famous”(role-playing wise) character. In GW2 I feel that everyone (not just me) is limited to be a C-Rank common “no-name” character. Training doesn’t improve much (after the initial training) and the option for unique designs is very limited.

I thought Logan is Kralkatorrik. And Queen Jennah is Glint. :P

alamore.1974:

CHIPS.6018:

djooceboxblast.9876:

CHIPS.6018:

Forget balance. The more pressing issue is:

Necromancer is boring as **** to play.

So it doesn’t even matter if necromancer somehow become balanced. It will still be the most boring class in the game.

Nothing really excites me about the GW2 necro. Nowhere near GW1’s necro, which held my attention for 7 years.

I’m sorry but why are you here then? That is your personal opinion and has absolutely nothing to do with this threads topic. I enjoy necromancer the most out of any profession in the game. Back to topic please.

Because in GW1 I used to have the option to sacrifice 33% of my maximum health.
Because in GW1 I used to be able to keep my WHOLE PARTY nearly immune to conditions.
Because in GW1 I could shut down people like mad.
Because in GW1 I had epic skills like Grenth’s Balance and Dark Aura.
Because in GW1 using minions was actually an ART.
Because in GW1 I could combo Animate Bone Horror+Death Nova+Ancestors’ Rage+Putrid Flesh
Because in GW1 I could combo Malign Intervention+Putrid Bile on masterless minion+Holy Spear on masterless minion.

I could go on. But I don’t feel like explaining myself too much. I played GW1 necro for 7 years. I cannot possibility tell you everything. It blows my mind how they can take the awesome GW1 necro and totally ruin the whole thing in GW2. Like EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of it.

I am not trying to show off. But sorry pardon me that I feel the GW2 necro are boring as ****. The profession’s skill ceiling is way too low, and there is little room for improvement or creativity. Let’s be honest. Nearly every necromancer uses the same 2 or 3 builds.

I used to write a lot. But nothing changed. And so I gave up.

This is not gw1 and will never be gw1
MM necros are one of the most boring builds to play.its the lazy man’s necro. You want to play a necro that takes more skill and active gameplay try a power well build( don’t burn all your wells at the same.time) or a hybrid scepter/ staff.

Go run GW1 right now, and try Malign Intervention+Putrid Bile on masterless minion+Holy Spear on masterless minion. First find out what it actually does (do you even understand what I am trying to do here?) Then practice it in PvE. Finally practice it until your team can use it with you in Alliance Battle over TeamSpeak.

Then tell me with a straight face that minion master is boring.

Minion master “basic” is, of course, boring. But if you want to be a “S-Rank” minion master, and it takes a lot of work and practise. The same thing goes for other “S-Rank” combos in GW1.

In GW2, it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to be a “S-Rank” minion master. The skill ceiling is very low.

djooceboxblast.9876:

CHIPS.6018:

Forget balance. The more pressing issue is:

Necromancer is boring as **** to play.

So it doesn’t even matter if necromancer somehow become balanced. It will still be the most boring class in the game.

Nothing really excites me about the GW2 necro. Nowhere near GW1’s necro, which held my attention for 7 years.

I’m sorry but why are you here then? That is your personal opinion and has absolutely nothing to do with this threads topic. I enjoy necromancer the most out of any profession in the game. Back to topic please.

Because in GW1 I used to have the option to sacrifice 33% of my maximum health.
Because in GW1 I used to be able to keep my WHOLE PARTY nearly immune to conditions.
Because in GW1 I could shut down people like mad.
Because in GW1 I had epic skills like Grenth’s Balance and Dark Aura.
Because in GW1 using minions was actually an ART.
Because in GW1 I could combo Animate Bone Horror+Death Nova+Ancestors’ Rage+Putrid Flesh
Because in GW1 I could combo Malign Intervention+Putrid Bile on masterless minion+Holy Spear on masterless minion.

I could go on. But I don’t feel like explaining myself too much. I played GW1 necro for 7 years. I cannot possibility tell you everything. But it is very sad for me to see how the awesome GW1 necro was totally ruined in GW2. Like EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of it.

I am not trying to show off. But sorry pardon me that I feel the GW2 necro are boring as ****. The profession’s skill ceiling is way too low, and there is little room for improvement or creativity. Let’s be honest. Nearly every necromancer uses the same 2 or 3 builds.

I used to write a lot. But nothing changed. And so I gave up.

Forget balance. The more pressing issue is:

Necromancer is boring as **** to play.

So it doesn’t even matter if necromancer somehow become balanced. It will still be the most boring class in the game.

Nothing really excites me about the GW2 necro. Nowhere near GW1’s necro, which held my attention for 7 years.

If the mobs continue to be dumb and un-organized, the players will continue to be dumb and un-organized.

Players will only improve to meet new challenges if these new challengers are hard enough.

I made a thread about this before:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Important-Suggestion-Mob-Unit-AI/

At the highest difficulty, the players cannot even spam skills non-stop. If they waste all their skills on the first wave of mobs, the players’ skills will be on cool down during the attack by the second wave of mobs. etc

Players now got to THINK if they want to beat the mobs. They got to think about everything, including WHEN to use skills. Resources, including skills, are limited. And the mobs are smart enough to push the players to their limits.

And TBH, the players must split up into different “divisions”, if they want any chance of beating these new intelligent mobs. Instead of one mindless group of 75 players, they need to organize themselves into 5 “divisions” of 15 players that are in mutual support of each other.

I support the OP’s POV on presentation. Let’s say I want to show my friend how awesome GW2 is. What do you think my friend want to see? A “mindless” group of 75 players? Or 5 groups of 15 players each, organized in Rome Total War fashion?

In short: If GW2 wants to impress my friend, then make GW2 more Rome Total War like in their world events. Force the players to think, and use tactics. If not the players should be defeated.

Spectral Void
Cooldown 90 second

For 10 seconds, you are immune to any attacks and spells. You temporarily loses this immunity when you attack or use a skill. When you stop attacking or using skills, you regain this immunity as long as the original 10 second duration hasn’t ran out.

Death Shroud is not toxic. It is just that no necromancer have ever reach it “true potential”. No one has reached that level of hate yet.

Watch Naruto, the best Death Shroud user in existence. It is hate the drives the power of Death Shroud.

You don’t need healing when you have ultimate destructive powers.

Kalavier.1097:

Minions are undead. They simply just aren’t taking a skeleton and animating it. It’s more of constructs then straight normal undead. I never said “good guy” necromancers are weaker then “bad guy necromancers”. I’m talking player character necromancers compared to the BIG LICHES. Aka, Vizier, Joko, and some of the others. Said Skeleton sorcerers are underneath the Vizier…

Evidence/supporting details saying necromancer minions aren’t undead?

Also, Risen saying their lines is just like zombies moaning “braiiinnnnsssss”. It’s not a matter of body/muscle memory. Which by the way, is about movements, not words. Muscle memory is being able to do something effectively without thinking about it as far as I know. So like swinging a sword, firing a rifle is muscle memory, not shouting random phrases.

Here is my opinion of an undead:

Undead are capable of fighting “totally independent” from its summoner.

Even after Vizier is dead, even after Joko got imprisoned (he literally lost control over his Awaken army), even after Zhaitan died, their undead armies keeps on fighting with all their skills.

All their skills, that’s the key here. A Risen that could use Hundred Blades will keep on using Hundred Blades after the death of Zhaitan.

Now look at the necromancer’s minions. After the necromancer is dead, the minions will not use any skill. In GW1 they would auto attack, but that is not using skills. In GW2, the minions would flat out die upon the death of the necromancer.

So counter question for you: Please prove that necromancer minions can still use their skills after the necromancer is dead.

If not, then minions are not undead. (In my view, of course.)

It is not so much “Liches are stronger than necromancers”. It is “Liches are summoning thousands of undead at the same time, while necromancers cannot even summon one.” It is god vs ant.

Now of course liches should be super strong. They are bosses. They are epic. They are legendary. I get this and I am not arguing this. But where is the middle ground? Where are the necromancers that can summon 10 undeads? Where are the necromancers that can summon 1 undead?

BTW I don’t need to see “good guy” necromancer using undeads in the game. I know the game need to be balance. I get this too. So just knowing in lore that “good guy” necromancers can indeed summon undeads is good enough for me.

Else if by lore necromancers cannot use undeads at all, then give us an explanation. Is it illegal? Are “good guy” necromancers really that weak? What is the reason?

As for you last point, you agree that “Death, good!” isn’t from memory. Cool. So where did that came from then? If it isn’t memory, it has to be either soul/spirit or Zhaitan.

Tuomir.1830:

Necromancer minions are not dead bodies reanimated, they are animated constructs made of the flesh and bones of the dead. A vital difference. And Tyrians consider animating dead bodies if not immoral, then at least very disrespectful.

After my necromancer turn someone’s father into a minion, we can’t even bury him properly. Why? Well, he doesn’t even look human anymore. Now he looks like a headless T-Rex (Bone Fiend).

I will say changing someone’s father into a headless T-Rex is much worst (in the respect/moral department) than just using that body as it is. At least when you are done with it, you can “un-cast” that spell and let the family bury it properly.

Kalavier.1097:

Also anther detail, GW1 metour shower was a hefty spell that exhausted the caster (in game mechanics).

Who says the reason ‘minions’ don’t do such is because their undead form can’t power the spell? Or it’d exhaust/weaken the minion a deal.

Most player necromancers (and allies) run standard minions, and small numbers of those. These are noticably weaker then something like the Undead under the Lich from prophecies, who controlled an army and they could do a lot more.

Yes, Meteor Shower will exhaust the undead minion. That’s the point. The necromancer sent the undead minion to use exhausting, 25 energy spells so those “negative consequences” won’t fall onto the necromancer himself/herself.

We have seen Undead using powerful spells with exhaustion. The skeleton Sorcerers in GW1 uses Earthquake, which causes exhaustion and costs 25 energy.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skeleton_Sorcerer

So yes we do have prove that undead’s body is capable of casting powerful spells. There is “enough energy and power” in these undead to cast these spells and skills.

And once again, why are the “good guy” necromancers so weak? Liches can summon thousands of undead to assist them. I mean fine they are big bad boys and they are powerful. I get it. But come on, our “good guy” necromancers cannot even summon one single undead to fight?

My conclusion is that undead requires souls. And forcing souls to fight is illegal. That’s the reason why “good guy” necromancers do not use undeads. Although secretly, many “good guy” necromancers knows how to summon a few undead. They tried it with animals, etc.

I buy this story more than necromancers being “weak”. Because if “good guy” necromancers are this weak, they are better off training to be a different profession lore wise.

In the future, if they give Ritualist spirits to the necromancers, perhaps we will see a few undead allies. Ritualist spirits+necro minions=undead.